Episode Forty-Five // Conversation with Caleb Campbell of "Disarming Leviathan"

“I think Christian nationalism started in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus was reaching for the Cross, and Peter, who loves Jesus, thought he should protect him with a sword.” – Caleb Campbell, Disarming Leviathan

In this episode of the podcast I chat with pastor and doctoral student Caleb Campbell about his new project to engage in meaningful but intentionally transformative dialogue with those who are self-described “American Christian Nationalists”. The ministry is called “Disarming Leviathan”, and it’s unlike anything I’ve yet to come across. Whether or not the specific topics discussed here have much intersection with your life, the principles of listening and empathy outlined are helpful for all of us; better listeners make better people.