The Marketing of Casinos

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For the ones who get it done. I'm Zach. And I'm Caitlin. Welcome to Manipulating the Masses. Don't give yourselves to brutes. Men who despise you, enslave you, who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think, or what to feel, who drill you, diet you, treat you like cattle, use you as cannon fodder. Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men, machine men.

With machine minds and machine hearts, you are not machines. You are not cattle. You, the people, have the power. All right, Caitlin, back again. Welcome. Before we get into our regular routine, I have the quick fire question on our topic today of marketing of casinos and sports betting apps.

And my question to you, you are a resident in the great state of Nevada. You are very attuned to casinos everywhere around you. Living as a local, how often do you... go to casinos actually i feel like i've had this conversation with you i don't personally gamble but i actually really enjoy going to casinos there why is that

Okay, well, some might disagree because I do live in Reno, which are kind of like seedier casinos. But I will say there's like the Peppermill to Atlantis, which are a little bit more upscale and less like seedy. But for some reason, it's just like... things are going on in a casino like people are alive sometimes No, you've said it very well. We're going to cover why you feel that way later in the episode. Yeah. It's the lights. It's the ding, ding, dings. It's the. All of it. And yeah, I mean.

i know that like in reno you'll get the more seedier people who have been there for a week straight just trying to like make rent but oh yeah you know in vegas i don't know i just love casinos there's shopping there's just like i i like being a part of the scene it's a scene

Oh, I love it. As usual, you've just played right into the coverage. I love when I'm the target demographic. But you're not. I covered this specifically because I'm the target demographic of this one. I pulled it out because we've done so many. where you're the target demographic i'm the target demo uh for casinos and apps sports betting apps but you have fed into my coverage of of marketing per usual so it's great

it's great but before we get into the story uh we're gonna cover some recent news caitlin you got something ready for us what has been in the news have you heard of a company called sticker mule no Oh, I'm so happy you have not heard of this yet. Okay. So sticker mule is a company that sells stickers. It's very straightforward. It's like a lot of branding purposes. So you send in your logo and they'll print whatever. It's a very.

very well-known company this is like in the marketing world it's like if you were using you printing or you know for events and trade shows and whatever sticker mule is pretty well known to print a mass amount of stickers so their ceo sends a personal email after Trump was nearly assassinated. The CEO sends an email to their newsletter, and I'm going to read it to you. Donald Trump was shot.

I don't care what your political views are, but the hate for Trump and his supporters has gone too far. People are terrified to admit they support Trump. I've been scared myself. Americans shouldn't live in fear. I support. Trump. Many at Sticker Mule do. The political hate needs to stop. Today, a bullet almost killed Donald Trump. He's got five kids. One's a teenager.

no one should have to die and sacrifice the happiness of their family to run for office if donald trump can risk that the least of the rest of us can do is vocalize our support and help end the hate the more people realize that kind-hearted compassionate people support Trump, the sooner the hate will end. I'm speaking up today and will do more in the future to stop this insane political hate.

awesome people all over the world love trump don't limit your friendship and diminish your happiness by indulging in political hate vocalize your support stop the hate anthony constantino co-founder sticker mule the reason i bring this up is because a this is a massive company And he starts to blend politics into it. What are your thoughts around blending political beliefs, especially something as extreme as this?

Polarizing. Yeah. So can I ask a follow-up question? He sent that email from his personal email to the... it's like the newsletter audience like people that are like i want sticker updates like just give me yeah yeah i think that's exactly Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think honestly, it might be if he sent it from his personal email, it might even be violation of GDPR advertising rights because you can't use, you can't send people mass emails.

if they have not opted into emails from his personal account um also it sure i see this stuff on linkedin all the time where it's like business leaders will post political stuff fine fine if that's the place for it if you want to do that who cares i don't agree with it but who cares but sending out an email like that i think you're just gonna lose business i think you're at the end of the day you're gonna like

You'll get some business, but you'll also lose business at the end. So whatever. It's like the MyPillow guy, you know, like whatever the MyPillow dude who's like stakes his entire business reputation on Trump and like.

whatever do your thing it's a dumb move in my opinion do you have any thoughts well it's just interesting that he chose the newsletter of a company that previously like was so neutral like they are a sticker company and i guess you could say the same thing about the pillow company too like these things are so yeah exactly there's um so if you have your beliefs i think yeah there's a time and place for this but a lot of the comments were

Let me get this straight. You use your company's mass email list to send out this very personal and like think about the. people that work for him too like customer service rope Well, he's roped them in. I think he had one statement saying many people at Sticker Mule do too. I think he's going to lose employees too. You're like, you pulled me into this. It's one thing to be like, this is what I believe.

but to rope your employees into to try to like give credence to your va to your opinion yikes dude bad management bad management he also doubles down and you know people are unsubscribing obviously they're unsubscribing from this newsletter program um But then he also, I don't have it pulled up in front of me, but he sends out a personalized email once again to every single person that has unsubscribed saying something like, yes, your account has been deleted. And then just again, doubles down.

And like lots of awesome people support Trump, including myself. And it just like continues to explore this rhetoric. And then the last thing is like he says that he gave a bonus to every customer service agent because of all the shit.

they've been having to deal with and i gave a 2500 bonus so thanks to you guys i've just spent 195 000 in bonuses and it's just like thanks to you guys yeah it's like if no because of you because of your actions you had to pay well he's like you know puffing out his chest he's like i just gave out 200 000 worth of bonuses like great work you guys and it's just like if you wanted to give a bonus then give a bonus like

you put these people in a very awkward situation, uncomfortable situation. Like, so I don't know, poor business decision and poor leadership all around. Yeah, that's a really good news story. And I think I got to say as well, if they've as a marketer, if they've.

personalize the unsubscribe email to address these trump things where it's like i mean there's no way he's individually emailing every person that unsubscribed if it's a major company uh they've somehow like rewrote that because so many people are it's because so many people are unsubscribing he's getting the ramifications he's feeling it and he's gonna that's what they always do puff out their chest double down because there is a market if trump can sell

nfts i saw he was selling 300 pairs of shoes with an image of him with his like ear bleeding on the shoe and people are buying it you know like there's oh yeah whatever whatever like he's gonna he's just segmenting his market now and he's basically saying okay if you believe this political ideation of the liberal side we don't want your business we just want to sell the trump so

I looked at this originally. I was interested in the ratio of engagement in this one post from comments to likes. And the majority of the comments are like, you fucked up. What are you doing? Like I am immediately never. purchasing from sticker meal, people giving recommendations on smaller businesses that they should support, et cetera, et cetera. So there's 30,290 comments and there's 38,000 likes. So that to me is a little scary.

that's like the political poll that i needed not these text messages of will you vote for biden coming election like this is kind of the political poll that it's reflective of where the country stands. And I will say of those 30,000 comments, I guarantee 20,000 of them are like, fuck you. But 10,000 of them are like, yep, I'm purchasing from sticker mule, lifelong supporter now, you know, bullshit like that. Exactly.

news is going to blow it up and then he's going to get just this this cult following and if that's your choice yes yes exactly yeah i'm with you i'm with you well good story that's very interesting and i feel like it's only going to get worse as november creeps up on us um it's a very hot i mean it's even getting hotter after the assassination attempt and biden might be dropping out as soon as this weekend

our recording day uh there is a lot of turmoil between now and november so we'll buckle the up that's about it buckle the up

Okay. Well, let's get to our main story today, Caitlin. Marketing of casinos and sports betting apps, which kind of rolls into that. We'll hit you with my five fantastic facts right off the bat. In 2023. it's reported that customers spent 66 billion dollars at casinos throughout last year that is their best year ever on record in the history of casino last year last year whoa yeah uh so they're having their best year ever they actually beat out 2022 which was their best year ever 2023 has grown

to become the best year ever. Dwarfing the casino revenue though, it was reported that lottery ticket sales also had an all-time high year last year of 108 billion dollars in sales 40 billion dollars higher than uh casino gambling And then to add to this like cash fund, sports betting apps, which are relatively new in a lot of state markets, posted $11 billion in revenue last year.

Here's where it gets interesting, though, for me, Caitlin. My fourth fantastic fact is based upon Harvard studies, only 3% of sports bettors are profitable. And many of those are... quote unquote, squeaking by with winnings that can barely cover a bar tab. So of the ones that are profitable. very few are even less are making money for casino goers about 13 and a half percent of gamblers go home with uh more money from the casino than they entered so 13 one out of every

10-ish. For lottery players, the odds of winning the lottery is, and follow me here, 0.0000000033%. is your odds of winning the lottery uh so the odds across the board not very good but activity is at an all-time high and then a little extra fun fact uh it's also reported i was i was just

I was curious because I'm like all these people like, you know, basically gambling your money. I see the stock market as essentially gambling your money, too. So I'm like, OK, so what's it compared to like day traders and investors?

uh it's also reported that only three percent of day traders make money over a two-year period so about the same as sports betting and worse than the casino so if you're listening now your best odds of coming out with more money then you left with still not good odds but your best odds is going to a casino surprising enough do any of those surprise you caitlin nope nope nope

I mean, I guess like the lottery, of course, it was going to be slim, but that slim, my God. I know. I always called it the stupid tax. It's like, it's just, the states make so much money on these lotteries.

but the and you hear all the stories about the winners uh but it is yeah yeah it is yeah i think it's something like you have a higher probability of being hit by lightning three times in your life than you do of winning the lottery that is ridiculous i'm not even at once so no my chances of winning the lottery is very very very slim it's wild yeah super slim

um so like i'm gonna kick off the main story uh with just some personal background because like i said caitlin i am the target demographic for casinos and especially sports betting apps uh i'm just gonna be personal for a second i grew up in a casino family right like we would i learned to play poker when i was seven years old We would take family trips to the casino. I would go to the kids arcade. My family would go gamble. Question. Where did you grow up? Detroit. Yep.

michigan yep so uh yeah so there's casinos in michigan is it are they indian casinos or is there yes well it's twofold there's twofold yes there's gambling in michigan they are uh indian reservation casinos there's lots of them but then also little known fact is uh across the river in detroit is windsor canada they have the international bridge

And Windsor, Canada is known as the Vegas of the Midwest. It has MGM. It has the Caesars. They're in downtown Detroit. There's two major casinos like in downtown Detroit. So it is a big like casino.

area as well i had no idea that gambling was legal in any other state besides georgia and nevada oh yeah there are the your west coast is showing there are casinos in every single state uh every single state has at least one casino because of the uh indian reservation act okay reservations all over At the very least, but a lot of states have in the last decade loosened those laws quite a bit.

So there's casinos everywhere. In Chicago, there's a casino downtown and they're just renovating a major building. There's going to be a major big casino like right in the heart of Chicago. Really? So it's on the rise. And accessibility, which we're going to talk about, is becoming a lot more prevalent. You don't have to travel to Vegas to go gamble. I can walk down the street. It's a 10-minute walk for me to hit up a casino now. Yeah. So I grew up in that kind of family.

right we would go to casinos we do what i think the benefits are and we can we're going to talk about the dark part of casinos i learned responsible gambling i love doing it i will openly say i love going to the casino i participate in the sports

betting apps. I love doing all of that stuff, but it's really important, I think, to have responsible gambling. I want to preface this. I'm going to advocate for casinos because I think they're fun, but preface that. Responsible gambling is very, very important. What do you consider responsible gambling? It's pretty simple. You determine a budget.

prior to going to the casino saying this is what i'm willing to gamble this is what i'm willing to have fun with uh when you run out as you usually 99 of the time are going to run out of that funds you don't get more you are done you're out um how i always frame it to people is like because i have a lot of friends they're like why do you love doing it like i'd hate it it just feels like i'm wasting money blah blah blah to a point yeah uh but for me i always frame it as like i could

spend, you know, take my girlfriend out on dinner, go to the movies, 200 bucks, easy. Or I could take 200 bucks and have some entertaining few hours of fun. gambling at the casino. Like it's just entertainment in different ways. Okay. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. I'm not saying I thought you were comparing it. Like I could do this really horrible, awful thing.

Or I could have some fun by myself. No, no, no. I'm saying, well, not by myself, but have some fun. It's entertainment to me. It's like, hey, I could have a... yeah i could have a few hours of entertainment having a wonderful dinner and a movie or i could have a few hours of entertainment going to the casino and just having fun um i never expect to win it is not something that i'm going to try to like you said try to pay rent

or try to cover other funds i am there knowing i will lose this money but it's it's gonna have some fun in the meantime so i just like to preface that um okay and i've seen the dark side i will just say i've i'm sure you've seen it too in reno like i've seen some things in casinos like some really share share uh i was in One that stands out is I was in Bally's in Vegas, just kind of going around. I literally saw a man pee his pants willingly.

Not through any kind of accidents because he refused to get up from the slot machine. He was sure the slot machine was going to hit. He didn't want to go to the bathroom and lose his spot. He just wet himself intentionally and openly. Okay. Because he didn't want to leave that slot machine. Yeah. That's not even worth making a joke out of. That's devastating. That's, that's addiction.

Yes. And I think that's the dark side. And this is why I've drawn a lot. Like when I was writing this, I saw a lot of parallels to the pharmaceutical industry. We talked about Oxycontin and the addiction. And when you're marketing things that are addictive. Alcohol as well. We've covered that one. When you're marketing things that are addictive, there's a fine line to walk. And I don't think gambling has hit that wall yet. It is on the rise quite a bit.

And then the last piece I have is kind of setting up the story is in 2018, just so we know as reference, the Supreme Court did legalize sports betting. Well, passed it to the states saying there's no federal law restricting sports gambling, gambling on sports. And in just six years since that ruling, 38 states have now legalized it. So we're already in the majority. Three of those states are allowing online.

casinos and gambling. Oh no, I'm sorry. 30 of those states allow sports betting online so you can do it from the comfort of your home. You don't got to go to a casino and put in a sports book. And then 13 states have legalized online casinos. So now you can just sit on your couch and play blackjack roulette, whatever it might be, and you don't even have to leave, which is concerning. So as we focus into the marketing, casinos have really...

i i don't know growing up in nevada was there i'm assuming there was a ton of billboards highlighting casinos like that was their tactic right throw up a billboard on the major highways right I did not grow up in Nevada, Zach. Tahoe? You should be embarrassed of yourself. Tahoe is literally split down the middle, Caitlin. I went there with you. I saw the line. I saw the line in the middle of the city. I grew up a very distant 20 minutes from Nevada.

Well, you still probably saw a lot of billboards highlighting the Nevada. I am. I am trying to think, and it's a tricky one because Tahoe is obviously so small. So there aren't billboards around that area. It would be if I was driving to Reno. And even then I just, I must be too young to even remember. Register that. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. But I will say now, I mean, if you're asking now, there's definitely a lot of casino billboards.

Yeah. Oh yeah. And they still spend a good amount, but their budget has shift. Yeah. I figured it would be maybe or two, but I figured it would be like currently, um, we have an interesting thing. I live in Chicago. I'm from Michigan. There's when you travel between the two, there's just this. small stretch of Indiana. I call it the fireworks gateway that you have to pass through very small, like probably 20 minutes you're in and out of Indiana to get between the two.

but it is riddled with marijuana signs now it's illegal in indiana to sell cannabis but illinois and michigan allow it so like that whole parkway is just riddled with And I figured it'd be the same, even though it's like technically not legal, they would just advertise over there. Well, and I will say you have to just kind of think of what the roads look like in a very small town, you know, 2000 people and the highway, like Reno wasn't a thing.

Like Reno has grown so much in the past 10 years. Like when I was growing up, nobody wanted to move to Reno. It was not a booming metropolis that it is now. But I will say too, like the casino. that the casino advertisements that I see on the billboards are pushing so much more they're pushing the spa and the restaurants and i don't even think maybe there is there is like chips like poker chips on some of the billboards too maybe

but yes you're exactly right their their messaging has changed uh dramatically and we will touch on that my my last question before we get into kind of the history of how we got here is do you get any like As a woman, do you get like sports betting apps? Is there things like DraftKings and FanDuel like advertising to you online? No, no. You're completely out of their demographic. But I also don't even.

watch sports on TV. I am so far out of their network. I am so far out of their network. There's no chance that I would ever be retargeted. Unless somehow my husband went on ESPN on my computer one day out of the blue. That would be the only way that I would hit. Fair enough. That's all I need to know. I wanted to cover one where I was the target demo because I'm inundated with them. They are everywhere, all around, everywhere, everywhere. I have seen a DraftKings commercial on TV.

but I've never been, I've never been targeted with them. I'd be, I don't even know. I couldn't even tell you what, you know what? They're using celebrities on the commercials now, I think. They are. I'm going to break down their budget spend moving forward. And they spend a significant amount of their advertising budgets on partnerships and sponsorships as well. But let's back it up because I think it is.

Interesting to just see how we've gotten here because it's grown so much really quickly because there is in the U.S. just this like will they won't they on again off again relationship with gambling. It has just went through. ups and downs side to side i cannot tell you i saw like this this paper published i read through it i cannot tell you the amount of times the lottery was banned the lottery was reinstated the lottery that you know they're like making

Dice game's illegal, but now they're back. There's just this, there's this whole like. our morality and laws and whatever it might be is always just this wishy-washy. We're going to allow it. We don't allow it. We're going to restrict this. Well, we're going to, it is just wild. So I just want to like, it's pretty dizzying.

And I just want to like give a short little high points of like all of that stuff. Do you have any thoughts before I get into that? Yeah. I know it's just about your microphone. You're going in and out in my headphones. Oh, there it is. Yeah, I'm like backing up going forward. Yeah, thank you. I got to stay. I get passionate and then I just start like leaning like I do in a meeting because I usually am in my headphones. You should connect it to your headphones. But the mic is terrible on this.

Like the one that like follows me. Oh yeah. I'm like a, I'm a, I'm a. yeah okay that's fair i need like i need to hold it maybe a mic stand yeah maybe just hold it yeah yeah the whole mic stand um so the idea of gambling has been around like throughout recorded history like the idea of like gambling it's nothing new um it's even i thought it was fun yeah go ahead i was just gonna say do you remember reading the book called the lottery in school

no no oh it was this is what it always makes me think of it's horrible it's like set in the early 1900s or whatever and people submit their names to be in the lottery and it's basically just an elimination program so whoever wins the lottery has to stand in the middle of the town square and get the stones thrown at them till they die. Was that based on real life?

or was that just like i don't know and you're making me really question my education level like why did they make us read that i don't know yeah i it feels to me like pre-hunger games it's very similar with the hunger games where it's like oh like consensus of the masses enter that stuff yeah okay so i just wanted to support you by saying it has been around since the dawn of time since they were stoning people to death

Yes, yes, I agree. It even the fun fact that I read in this like time sheet was that it's like confirmed that that all the sailors on like Columbus's sail to the US like gambled the whole time.

their trip like that's what they did to pass the time it's games they played games yeah games of chance whatever it might be called yep but like that has been around you you oh you wager something you play a game and you win something or lose something that's always how it's been It wasn't until like the Puritans of Massachusetts instituted the first law against gambling when they first like got to the colonies and they outlawed the possession of cards, dice.

and any gambling devices in a home you could not you could not own them otherwise you were put to death if they found a deck of cards can i ask like what was their what why were they against it I think it was just their, it's the Puritan religion. It's like, you know, they're very godly. They saw it as an act against, they saw it closer to the devil than they did God, right? Like they were like, oh, these games of chance, cards.

are a work of the devil you know okay like witchery yeah they were also burning women for you know just because they felt like it essentially so yeah let's not read into too much their morality line that was it was way off off we all can agree it was way off um and the other thing is since then uh they actually and I didn't know this to fund the American Revolution The Continental Congress rolled out a lottery, $5 million to the winner.

Um, and they actually had like a national lottery you could pay, get a ticket and whoever won won $5 million and it funded the American revolution war, uh, which is fascinating to me. Yeah. Right. Lottery was used to fund the war.

question yeah why wouldn't they just fund the war five million dollars why did somebody need to win rather than whoever and whoever won like they just picked a winner and the winner would be like okay yeah just use that money to fund the revolution i don't need it well you won five million dollars which is a lot in 17 like that's a lot of money

it is a lot of money or they made five million dollars i don't know it wasn't too clear the lottery winner won something okay but they they made a lot of money because at the end of the day it's very profitable right and it's a way to do it for a government without raising

taxes that's why i call it the stupid tax if you raise taxes and you were like hey give us more money so we can find but if you're like hey we have this game you can pay you might win you're probably gonna lose but pay so does some of them so does some of the lottery money go to taxes go to like building rebuilding roads yeah

Really? Yeah, yeah. They say it funds schools. In Illinois, that's their big promotion. The Illinois Lottery Fund helps schools and pays for everything. Yeah, it is basically a government revenue tool. the lottery okay i'd like to say this now i would really like to do an additional podcast on the lottery itself because i feel like if you really track that down and go back and figure out where they're putting that money i don't know if it's in schools let me tell you

I think there's probably a lot of bad things happening with that, but it is a government revenue source, right? Like that is what the lottery is. So it's wild, right? It's wild. Yeah, I had no idea.

Yeah. And then so, you know, this on again, off again, it was legal. It was illegal. It was kind of legal, quasi legal. And then can you guess the city where the first legal casino was made? Is it an obvious one or not obvious one? Obvious one for people not on the West Coast, I would say. Not on the West Coast. Yeah. Like it's a pretty popular gambling spot. Atlanta. No. New Jersey.

No, Atlantic City came along later, but you're right. New Jersey is one of the most popular spots now. It is New Orleans is where the first. Didn't know they had gambling. Yep. That's what I said. No, on the East Coast, the Midwest and East Coast people know New Orleans has got some spots. Yeah. So.

The ups and downs, like one thing's for certain, which I've always found fascinating with casinos is what, regardless of the law, they find a way to operate, right? Like they outlawed casinos on land and it was actually in Chicago. the Illinois outlawed gambling. So in 1902, this gambler, Big Jim O'Leary, it was his name, built the first ever gambling boat.

because it's not it wasn't illegal on the water so he bought a boat exclusively for gambling and thus we have riverboat casinos now and that's the whole legal way like you can't have it on land but if it's on water you're good so there's a bunch of riverboat casinos all over the country too. So it's like they've always found this way to kind of like slide through regulations. And now that it's opening up, I think they're going to start doing that on the marketing end.

And then I just, I'm full of fun tidbits about this. Have you ever heard Caitlin of the great Nevada slot war? No. yeah i neither did i i just thought it was fascinating it was like in 1949 slots machines became the craze for a while like they were just this new thing that was crazy and amazing and everybody was like addicted to slot machines uh and they were like making them illegal they were legal in vegas and all of these casinos as they started popping up like

slot machines was the go-to and they were all competing against each other to try to get customers to their slot machines uh this guy robert van staten of the the owner of the flamingo decided to add bells and whistles to his slot machines to try to lure in customers. And it was game over.

game over and now all of them so you mentioned that like the dinging there is something about that um that just hits us right uh yeah and then you know i think the the big changer was that in 1988 they passed the uh Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, which allowed casinos on Indian reservations throughout the country. And that is really where it started to boom. And now we have over 2000 casinos operating in the US.

So with like this increased, we talked about accessibility, availability. They're not really like casinos used to lobby a lot to try to get laws. They're kind of at a good spot. So now they're dedicating all of their money for marketing, which is why. think it's good for us to talk about. I'm going to ask you a question, Caitlin. You are the marketing director of a casino. You can pick one. Who do you think is your target demographic operating a casino?

If you went to the CEO of the casino, they're like, hey, who do we need to hit? Who are we going after? Who's our marketing campaigns for? Give me their age range. I'm not blinking.

i'm i'm almost i just have too many demographics in my head in fact okay i think i think one of them is the person who wants to have a good time who's going to vegas so 20 20 no let's say 32 because they have to have a little slight just a little bit of a disposable income um in your 20s you don't have any of that but a 32 year old who might not still

maybe doesn't have a family doesn't have kids like not tied down with anything has a disposable income and wants to party so that's one demographic i have in my head the other demographic is like the older demographic who actually just enjoys gambling for gamble and my grandma who wants to sit at a slot machine and just throw pennies at it. And that's it. And that's her enjoyment. Same with Cap's grandma, actually, now that I think about it. It's like the grandma's. So the older demographic.

I don't see like, yeah, I'm going to say, okay, so my first one is the 32 year old. The next one is like the 75, 80 year old. Um, those are the two I have in my head. I think you nailed it. I think you absolutely nailed it. Do you have any, do you think you would go, would it be an even split on gender, male, female, just kind of like spread it across the board? Do you think there's any, any.

that's also where i was pausing because at first i was saying i mean you have just said this so i kind of cheated is like you are the target demographic so i didn't want to just default yes yeah i didn't want to default pretty yeah 50 50. yeah i think women are less high risk so they're more conservative when they sit down at the table yeah and then men are probably more high risk. So I would maybe gear my marketing towards men by just showing a lot of, um,

pretty girls in my billboards or at the pool. Yeah. Yeah. At the pool or getting a massage. Yeah. I think that's a, that's a really good point. Well, here's the interesting one though, is what about education levels? What do you think we can target by, you know, no college, high school, some college, college education, you know? I don't think gambling discriminates like that because. you have your penny machines which are pretty like mindless and that doesn't take a high degree of learning

But then you also have poker, which, fuck, if I sat down, I cannot count that fast. And I'm not counting cards. I mean, like, doing basic math. Like, four plus eight. Oh, blackjack. I'm like, blackjack, not poker. Eight plus four equals eight. nine, 10, 11, 12, 12. That's how I get to the 12. Okay. So to me that like requires a little bit more, not even education. You're not learning how to count cards in school, but you are basic math principals.

You're so right. So I don't know. I think education level is, you don't have to have a college education, high school, maybe high school, high school education. Yes. Yes. I would say you're right. Lower-ish education. goes a little more uh high school some college is is kind of the wheelhouse as soon as they get that bachelor's degree level and as you go up it kind of like the percentage skews a little bit you just triggered me at the blackjack table because i remember

We had our company retreat in Tahoe. We were staying at a casino. I got you to sit down at the blackjack table with me for a little, and I was like helping you count the card. It was very taxing for me too. I had to be like, no, Caitlin, that's 16. And then I'd be like, here's, I was playing two hands and it was very, it was very cumbersome for me. Well, it's also really intimidating because the person in front of you, like the dealer is so like.

intelligent and they're just waiting for you and they're like moving so quickly and you don't know the hand gestures and like the whole thing is just makes me crumble we'll get you there we'll get you there bless the dealers that have patience for the people who like don't know what tapping the table means or like scuffing or whatever

I completely agree. I love the dealers that take their time with you, not the ones just turning and burning hands. Like those are, yeah. But, and I think maybe that's why I feel like I'm very sensitive to this because I love it, but I'm like there, I'm like.

you know me, I'm like chit chatting with the dealers. Like I'm hanging out. I'm more there having a good time. Like I'm celebrating people at the roulette table. Like even if I don't win, I'm like, yeah, great. Hey, like I'm just there to have a good time. You know, that's what.

it is um well when we're talking about marketing for casinos you nailed it i think uh across the board demographics kind of their messaging techniques i would be re i would be remiss not to cover one of probably the most influential marketing campaigns of all time on a marketing podcast, huh? I'm excited.

oh yeah you're you'll know do you have an idea of what you what we're gonna cover next no for some reason i'm like thinking playboy for some reason like the actual hotel in vegas i don't know why like i don't know what it is You'll know. So for many years, you were exactly right to preface this campaign. Casinos have relied on this older generation, the grandmas who just come in.

love to gamble will you put up slot machines it's kind of like the field of dreams motto you build it they'll come you know you don't really need much marketing right like they just come to gamble um little marketing was really needed however As access to casinos in the early 2000s started to become more prevalent and people could go more often, there was a city being hit hard.

And it was Las Vegas was on the downturn. So, and that city, as you know, you're, you live in Nevada there. It's, it relies, it doesn't just like make a lot of its money. It relies on tourism, tourist. coming in and spending money. So they were having issues, less people were coming.

less people were staying in vegas so in 2003 the las vegas convention and visitors authority hired the advertising agency rnr partners to brand las vegas as more than just a gambling destination with particular emphasis on promoting adult freedom and empowerment and the rnr partners team uh struck gold they launched the campaign do you have it yet Do you have it yet? I see you looking. They launched the campaign.

what happens here stays oh my god how did i not know that i feel so i'm retiring that's it i put on the towel even i mean even just saying the tagline and you know exactly what it is uh that was an instant cultural phenomenon what happens here stays here it's been morphed into like what happens in vegas stays in vegas um and for That simple tagline has been a staple in pop culture. And it even spawned its own TV show, What Happens in Vegas. It spawned an Usher song, What Happens in Vegas.

It was credited as the inception point for the Hangover movies. So we've gotten a lot of pop culture references off of this simple ad campaign.

oh that's so brilliant i mean it's not it's even like infiltrated things outside of gambling in vegas it's like it's common language now like people joke oh yeah what happens in that the bachelorette party stays at the bachelorette party what happens it yeah whatever school stays in whatever yeah whatever it might be insert place there insert yeah and I agree with you so I think you you spoke to it they

We're very successful and not just saying come gamble in Las Vegas. It's now a cultural destiny. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. It's now kind of created this like opportunity place. And this is how casinos are moving. It's more of an opportunity to express your adult freedom in whatever way that looks and really kind of live it up. And then the campaign has been a mainstay until...

2020, as the target demographic shifts to millennials, as they start trying to draw more millennials into Vegas, they've updated the tagline. And now it says, what happens here? only happens here so can we talk about that subtle shift and what that means and the marketing end Okay. I don't know if this, okay. You know, it's really interesting. As soon as you said, what happens here stays here.

um i obviously that really resonated with me and i remember all these campaigns but i also know that recently i feel like the campaigns are getting a lot more risque like they're definitely like oh we're encouraging cheating on your spouse we're encouraging like stepping over the line you know um at least those are the kind of so it's interesting that i didn't even realize the tagline shifted a little bit i just remember the visuals and the actual commercials shifting in tone

be like yeah this is kind of like the dirty spot like you want to Well, it's got to tingle your senses, right? Like if you're just like, yeah, I can go have a good time at a nightclub in Nashville, you know, wherever, like that's not, they're trying to draw you there. So it's gotta be, Vegas has always been that place. That's just gotta like.

push you to the limit it's got to be like anything is possible there and as the rest of the world catches up they got to just be the the pinnacle of like adult freedom i guess i know and i feel like at some point you know people get numb to messaging people get numb to the current sensationalism

right sensationalism exactly so you're just always gonna ask for more and more and more and more and more so that's what the agency is essentially doing is just saying okay yeah that worked for a really long time but now we have to be like we have to turn it up a little bit Well, only get things here, which it feels risque to me. It feels like you're going to get your drugs. You're going to get your sex. You're going to get your strippers.

That's what Vegas is known for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, okay. Yeah, sure. I would say in some sense. What they're really trying to do is capitalize on the relentless FOMO, fear of missing out that all of this younger generation has, right? Like there is... The stuff that happens here only happens here, right? Like the only way you can experience these things is by coming to Vegas. Don't miss out, right? Like don't.

see your friends posting all of their crazy stuff in vegas while you're sitting at home right i think that's what they're trying to capitalize on it's like i apologize i made vegas sound really dirty and really seedy and it's not because now that it is like there's parts of it but like i will advocate for vegas but i will advocate for vegas too i like it yeah and i don't even drink but i was thinking like you can only get you know

Britney's show in Vegas or the Celine Dion show the resident shows Adele's over there didn't know that Chris Angel crazy shows magic shows uh hotels, shopping. There is those elements of Vegas that you really only get in Vegas. yeah i i agree so i think it's moving in the right direction um but you've hit on it a few times and i want to move into like because they are millennials are the new market it feels strange to say that for an industry because like we were the

market 10 years ago, everybody was trying to get us. Now all the brands are like, we want Gen Z, we want Gen Z. But casinos have always skewed a little older, right? You need disposable income. So they're always probably a generation. We are, we're maturing. I have it in my notes. Millennials are maturing. We are maturing. Yeah. So like now we're the new market for casino.

us right like we are at that phase in our life where they want us to come in um that feels so wrong to me because i felt like even as much as i like casinos it was like Yeah, I go there to party. I go there to drink. I go there to go to the clubs. And now people are targeting me because they know I'm going to sit at a penny machine like that hurts.

Well, no, they know you're not going to sit at a penny machine. Here's the difference. There was actually a really interesting study by Anderson Digital. They said in their study, boomers and Gen Xers.

tend to spend 80% of their casino money on gaming and only 20% on food and entertainment. While millennials... spend 30 percent of their money on gaming and 70 percent of their money on food entertainment and non-gaming services so they're marketing to you and this plays into your point where they're not expecting you to sit at the penny slots they want you to come

to the spa they want you to try out the restaurant they want you to go see the shows because that's what we're willing to spend our money on so this is where the shift in their messaging has and you've alluded to it a few times that's why i said you set me up it's all about

services the amenities the experience gambling is in the back right because they're trying to get us it's just a part of the bigger picture it's not you don't go to vegas to gamble you go to vegas to do everything and gambling is one of those things yeah it's just like us Side thing, yes. Like I said, my recent trip with my girlfriend to Vegas, I love it. I gambled, she gambled a little bit, but we went to three shows. We had reservations at all these restaurants. We did a lot of the experience.

experience stuff, which is typically not what I do in Vegas, loved it, would do it again. But you know, that's like, I'm just there to hang out, drink, but.

other people our age are like i want to go experience things so then are you saying that they make more money from people doing the whole gambit of things that they offer in the casino versus just sitting down and gambling Yeah, yeah, yeah. They make good money because you don't have to pay out anybody. There's no, like every casino has a minimum amount that they have to pay out every month. Like they have to report casino winnings and they have to hit that threshold.

every month so they're paying people out on the game they're still making money but there's a high cost associated to it restaurants you're not paying anybody out you just take the money and you're paying for the food and labor right like there's no risk so same thing with the entertainment buy the tickets you're just paying the performers that's it

right um so yeah it's a it's a good profit margin for them and I will say like I went to it usually goes hand in hand like I went to the Chris Angel show in Vegas um My man is struggling, but that's beside the point. After the show came out, you walk out of the theater and you're right in the floor of the casino and I could see all the people just going right to the tables. Yeah. introduction and then you go after the show. That's so real because.

after an event, you're always like, you walk out the door and you're like on this high, right? You're like, I want to go do to my, I want to go do my next thing. And oftentimes you're just like, fuck i have to go home like do you want to watch tv when we get home but like yeah to sit down and like get a drink at a penny slot or like poker or whatever yeah that's it yeah that's perfect also i'm just so interested why is

Why is Criss Angel? We can talk more about this, but I need two minutes on why Criss Angel is suffering. Did he forget how to do magic? No, he still does it. I don't think his heart was in it. He looked rough. He looked rough. Like drugs and alcohol. Something. I'm not here to speculate on that. He looked, yeah, something. He did not look. Tip top shape. I will say that. And, you know, it was like he's he was just.

I mean, his tricks weren't crazy by any means. It didn't like, like I've been to a few, I go, my family used to live in Vegas as well. Kind of my casino upgrade. I mean, like not my family, my extended family. So we would go there all the time. Right. And I would go to shows. I've seen some amazing. magicians like really good chris angel was cashing a check scraping by bottom of the barrel tricks showing you bunny rabbit Yeah, he was he was and he didn't look great doing it. My man was.

in a bad place he's been he was tired he was tired yeah yeah yeah like i know the chris angel mind freak when he had the tv show and he was like super cool and badass now he's like i'm like oh man people i guess oh man i thought it was cool-ish i was like oh it's like it's a little intense for me but it's cool um yeah chris angel doing his best i also went to the magic mike show

uh and if you are a male listener go to the magic mike show it's actually a really good show yeah yeah and i got a lot of attention from those dancers it's like uh you know it's like uh i I could not tell you how many hip thrusts I got in my face, but you gotta be comfortable with your sexuality. But I, I was, I was having a blast. It was a great time.

it's not even like the whole sexuality thing it's like i hate being i mean i like being the center of attention but not in those scenarios like i hate being picked for crowd work and stuff i would be mortified if somebody hip-throasted because then like spotlights on you too and people are like waiting to see your reaction i'm just like i'm not here to put on a show for everyone i'm not getting paid

yeah well there's not one dancer they're like go out in the audience so you're not really there's not like a spotlight on you're just kind of like i honestly it was truly fascinating maybe this is another episode as as a person who has attended regular strip clubs tailored to men in the past and then went to a magic mic which is like strip club for women quote unquote you know like it's that thunder down under yeah tactics were very different

and it was fascinating to me it was fascinating to me like there was an emotional component to the magic mic show like there was a storyline there was like they like they they did a whole production and I almost don't think that's apples and apples, right? I think you're comparing apples to oranges because a strip club is like, okay, okay, okay. I think they have the same. No, I disagree. I think they have the same.

intended outcome of like arousing a certain person or like feeding that sensationalism of of uh someone That's all I'm saying. But the Magic Mike is like a production. It's a show. It's a group doing choreographed, coordinated. dances right oh yeah there were so many body rolls oh yeah yeah yeah there was they were all choreographed dances okay but then can you think of like us a female version of that burlesque burlesque yes but not a strip club so uh

So different. I mean, there, there, there's coordinated dances to some degree. They're just solo dances. I wouldn't say they're solo. Exactly. Exactly. But the, the magic might had solo dances too. They had like one dancer coming out, doing his thing. I guess I think of the Magic Mike show as a production crew behind it. There's a producer.

you know strip clubs have a dj i don't know they have a light lady that guy like how far do you want to take this i feel like i feel like there's people making sure your outfits are checked you're oiled up you're you know if you're a stripper you're doing that you're you're an independent freelancer doing the thing. You're an independent contractor. I don't know. You keep trying to draw like differences and I'm seeing comparisons every single time. Seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know.

i don't i just think they treat it the way they approach it is very different the storyline and like the the the How they approach it is just wildly different than the other ones. We're getting so sidetracked, but I do want to hopefully do another podcast on this because I have some stories about this. Yeah. Strip clubs in general. Yeah.

oh okay okay i was thinking specifically magic mike but i'm gonna tell oh okay we can do that one too we can just talk about them both uh my mom don't listen to that one all right whatever it comes out anyway um

So you're back to the casino. So they're promoting spas, pools. uh restaurants like parties djs events like their gambling is very much not on the forefront for millennials anymore and it honestly plays right into the hands of these casinos for modern marketing tools Because really the only restrictions around promoting gambling are you can't advertise to people under 21. And then you have to have like some kind of helpline for gambling addiction included in your gambling ad. Right.

And just as casinos have always done in the past, they found this wiggle room.

where they can run targeted facebook ads to anyone basically promoting pools and anyone can go to a restaurant and eat anybody can stay at a pool anybody can go see an event um so they've wiggled around those restraints and it played the... consumer behavior has played right into the hands of that so social media is becoming very prevalent i checked about 10 uh casinos in vegas and all of them are running social ads all of them are like here's a hard cabana price our special pool price

the events coming up here's our new restaurant we have all of none of them are talking about any gambling at all any thoughts on that No. And I think, well, it actually just goes back to the point that we made when you walk out of an event and you're greeted with an entire room of poker.

tables and all that stuff and it's just like that's why they don't need to promote it it's because they don't people don't people don't want the party to end so that's how they'll just hang out at the tables yep i agree um and the the what i found interesting reading these reports is there is a new kind of wave with casinos as well running these paid advertisements

But their whole mission, including the restaurants, including every aspect, the spa, the pool, whatever it is, there's a mission for casinos to create, quote unquote, postable moments. That's what they want to do is create different experiences because people typically travel to Vegas and they go there. They want to create these unique moments that are postable.

to get that natural kind of feedback loop that positive feedback loop of neon signs with angel wings painted on a graffitied wall for instance you nailed it um that's exactly For millennials. There's one that, and I knew of this one because it has popped up in my feed significantly. There's this one moment, right? It's actually, I tracked it down. It's in the Vegas Fountain Blue Hotel and their restaurant.

called Poppy Steak. It began promoting this $1,000 Australian Wagyu's Tomahawk Steak. $1,000 to buy this thing. and like who's gonna do that but what they did and when they originally launched it like nobody bought it nobody cared but then they threw in this new element of it called the beef case

where essentially you buy this $1,000 Tomahawk steak and it comes out in like a diamond encrusted briefcase. And like, it's like you bought a bottle at a club. Like all the servers are there with like flashlights. music they like play music in the restaurant and what they do is they like they celebrate they open the case and then somebody with a branding iron like stabs the steak right away so all the smoke comes out and like it's

So they rolled that out to create this quote unquote postable moment, right? And sales for this $1,000 stake went up 784%. people it's like sold out every day like you can't buy one because that actually drives me so much more to not purchase it like again do not make me the scene at a nice restaurant i am not here to get the bottle

laurels at my table with a branding iron. I don't know, but it obviously works because the bottle girls have a job for a reason. Well, it's the same thing with the Vegas nightclubs. Like the whole reason they're, they get.

Yeah, but it's because Boots getting... bidding wars with each other like this is a known thing like when they when there's another table like vip table at a nightclub and then all the bottle girls like go celebrate because they bought a bottle with all the sparklers that triggers all the other boosts

yeah it's like this bidding it's like this weird outspending where it like actually triggers competition within the club that's why they do it is like they want the other tables to know that these people are getting bottles so they're like we want the attention And so they start buying more. It's ridiculous. Do people get to walk away with that beef case?

so no no no you just get the steak they reuse the beef case it does you do not buy diamonds with this with this thousand dollar no they just serve it to you and then they go reuse it for the next person who offered who bought the beef case um Yeah, it's a pretty wild scene. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The first thing is like $1,000 beef case at Poppy Steak. Oh, Miami, Florida. So this is extended. Oh yeah. Miami makes a sense to roll it out to any of those kind of like club based cities, you know, wild.

anyway so that that's where casinos are at right now you nailed it it's it's young people highlighting experiences postable moments really trying gambling has come come a long way but taking a back seat in their promotional efforts it is not the highlight of anybody's it's like yeah it's there you know you know where to find it yeah i think you're spot on too because like

restaurants have really become very chic to know like if you go to nobu people are like oh you went to nobu you must be you know a celebrity an influencer you must be in the in crowd in la so the same thing is really transcendent to vegas where they're pumping out these michelin star restaurants where people like fly in to go to the restaurants alone Yeah. Shout out Chicago in this because when I went to Vegas, they have all of these wonderful restaurants. I would say probably...

25 to if not 30 percent are chicago restaurant offsheets like the originals in chicago i was kind of frustrated i was like man i traveled all this way and like they i know all these restaurants i've been to the originals like what are you what are you trying to sell here in vegas shout out chicago food dang zach flex flex um and i know we're at time but i do want to cover uh sports betting apps really because this is where it's like booming right um

And sports betting apps are interesting because it is exclusively gambling. You can't sell an experience. You can't sell someone sitting on their couch. The benefits of that, they are pure and simple.

come bet your money right this is where it's it's it's rolled out and in the six years just really quickly i mean there's so much competition in the sports betting app space right now uh draft kings fan duel bet gmmg at bet gmgm caesars fanatics espn bet espn rolled out their own betting uh platform bet rivers bet 365 win bet circa betley

Borgata Action 24-7. That's just the national ones. There's regional ones. There's a lot of them. And they are, Caitlin, I know you're not in the game, but these things are 24-7. I just looked up some things that I could do. I mean, right before I wrote this, here's some things I can bet on amateur tennis. tournaments in oh my god norway uh amateur boxing matches is happening in kurdistan and then the tt elite ping pong championship i could throw bets on that wow

Yeah, so it is an interesting market that there's all of this inventory. They are tracking. You can constantly, 24-7 around the world, you can wake up and start gambling money, which I think has some dark sides to it. So... with all of these apps and all of this inventory of things that you can build they've been spending a lot of money in customer acquisition campaigns literally come join us come join us and their target demographic is me

I would say some numbers that stand out. Out of all US males. Every single U.S. male, even including states where sports betting is not legal, there's a bunch of them, including those states, 24%, one out of every four U.S. male is an active sports bettor, which is wild. to me for it to happen in six years. Yeah. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Um, so you said active sports better. So does that mean there's probably more who have signed up and bet occasionally? Like here and there there's, I think it's probably, if I remember the number is maybe like 40 to 50 are like. prospective sports bettors like that are just kind of like they'll throw a little bit here and there. So half of all U.S. males, including states that don't even have it legalized. That's what skews. And that's that's crazy to me.

I feel like for the amount of people that I know partake in things like fantasy football, it's not a stretch of the imagination to know that they also bet on sports. So one in four seems like a lot, but it also does it in my mind because everyone fucking talks about fantasy football. And to me, that just is like the same thing.

yeah which is interesting you say that because on a personal level i do i do participate in sports betting i think it makes it a little more fun to like watch a game that i'm not like i said responsible sports betting is important i'm not on it all the time but i'm like watching a game or a friend

is and i don't care i will never bet on a team that i root for it's already stressful enough i have a very soccer i'm a tottenham hotspur fan i will never bet on their games because it's already stressful enough but they like if i'm just watching i'll throw So I'm one of those perspective ones, but I never did fantasy football. Don't care. Never got into it. But you've done like fantasy soccer, right? No.

No, I'm never, never big on that stuff. But the ones where it's like, make a game more interesting anyway. No, I mean, I will speak to my husband, too, because he bets the same way. And it's like, let's if it's. camaraderie thing with a homie and they're just like yeah let's throw ten dollars i mean i'm talking like ten twenty dollars like yes nobody's thrown away yeah hundreds of dollars i mean definitely not thousands so it is definitely a fun thing and

Yeah, it does. It makes it a little bit more interesting to watch the whatever amateur tennis in Kirkmanistan. If you can even get a live stream of that, who knows?

um so like like how did this market get so dominant so quickly um and it's truly truly ad spending. DraftKings, for example, spent $600 million in advertising last year while competitors like... Yeah, really. While competitors like Bet365 and FanDuel spent about $550 million. Total spending on just advertising customer acquisition campaigns is about $11 billion.

And what I think is interesting, I actually found them breaking down their spend. So DraftKings spends about 40% of their budget on online ads, retargeting feed ads, 40%, 30% on TV. So that's about 70%. And then they spend 15% of that budget on partnerships, sponsorships. You mentioned it, celebrity endorsements. What can they do? And then 15% on promos.

which is something in the advertising world like you take a hit you spend it on a specific promo they start advertising these like no sweat bets if you're a new person and you join you get like ten dollars to bet for free like they do these kind of promo things as well Do you remember, do you have a list in front of you of like the celebrities they've used?

no i thought about pulling that but it's been i mean it's it's mostly sports people as far as i can remember i'd be curious maybe we can ask our and our social team or social people like there has been other people but um i can just remember like sports that's kind of it yeah no I only asked because I did see a commercial for DraftKings, and it was somebody that, A, I recognized, and B, it was really interesting to see them in that space, which makes the commercial a little bit more interesting.

Like, I'm not kidding. It might have been LeBron James. No, that wouldn't make sense. Maybe like 2 Chainz or something. Somebody kind of out of their respective field and promoting. DraftKings, it was interesting to me to watch that commercial all the way through and see LeBron James, who usually markets Nikes or Gatorade, which seems like a better fit.

okay so i pulled up a list really quick uh i'm seeing kevin hart is in here maybe it was him and then the all the other people look like sports people david ortiz Yeah, he's a baseball player. I do know David Ortiz. you would be surprised but i do know david ortiz my dad used to be a huge well he still is a red sox fan so i was a red sox fan for a small period when they won the world series as i do that tracks that tracks

So yeah, they've been doing a lot of those, but I think they're mostly sports people. And really where they really, really have been spending their money lately is, again, retargeting. so as these as these uh apps or these markets mature a little bit it's like hey it's new get the new people get the new people and now we've seen it similar in cannabis right where like the pie is so big everybody's friendly with each other all these apps are kind of like splitting the pie but now as it's matured

And it's like come in and restricted a little bit. Now it's starting to get cutthroat and they're really trying to go after one another. Yeah.

Yeah. So the big thing that I want to talk to you about is like... i was actually they actually gave estimates their cost per acquisition so they're spending about 600 million dollars a year draft kings for example their cost for getting a new customer or a new user is about 750 dollars

so they have to spend 750 to get a new user their roi they say they spend about a million dollars and that equals about four million dollars in revenue so they are getting roi but they're spending a lot of money it's a high acquisition cost is there anything let's say this was one of our clients and they're like we don't want to be spending 750 dollars per new lead per new user

is there anything that comes into your mind of like, if you were in that meeting, what would you propose as like a measure to like reduce that cost per acquisition? Is there any channel you would go to? Is there anything that you think? hey, we should be doing this to lower this acquisition cost. It's a real nuts and bolts marketing question. Yeah, the nuts and bolts are not my forte.

So, you know, it's interesting. Maybe I should have asked myself that question. Yeah. Just talk to yourself for the next 15 minutes. I'll just reply on the wall. But I was thinking about our one client. in the government space. And I think their cost is $600 for a user. But on the other hand, their product is like a million dollars. It's like a million dollar contract. So for $600, that makes a lot of sense to me. To spend $750 for one new user who might spend the passive.

user like you, for example, who spends $10 here, $10 here. I mean, let me ask you when, how do you think you've spent $750 on sports betting in a year? in a year in a year it's maybe a little less than that maybe that sounds about right like over the course of a year yeah I don't know. I guess I need more kind of information to kind of figure out who I am actually targeting because if it's just the passive user, I'd probably go one direction.

But if the majority of their income isn't the passive user and it is the aggressive user who bets a lot a lot of times, then $750 makes sense. Yeah. And I think you, again, there's a perfect segue because my kind of predicting the future and looking ahead is saying.

that's a high cost for acquisition right so they've actually started to roll back their promos like awarding free money or you get a free bet they've actually stopped doing that because it attracts the passive user he's like oh yeah i'm gonna I'll spend $10, get the free 10 and then I'm out. Yeah. Right. And then they're at a net nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. They lost cause they've paid $750 to acquire them. They gave them $10. That guy.

spent the $10 and then left. Yep. And then they're like, well, we spent the $10. paid ten dollars so like yeah you're still at a net loss you had a net loss for that user doing promos so they've rolled that back um and they're trying and i think caitlin you're right it's gonna start my warning to people on why this is important

and what to look for is I think it's going to start going into the dark arts of marketing where gambling is an addiction. 100%, it is an addiction. They're going to start going after those addictive people. I know. Cause that's the thing. I mean, yeah, they're spending a lot of money to acquire the passive user, which I think on paper looks great. We have X number of users, but you know, they're making.

three what would you say for a million dollars they're making four million dollars a four million if you eliminate half of your users your return could be a lot more yep and that is a slippery slope well the exclamation point on this uh topic is that uh you know with that acquisition cost and all of those apps that i listed every single one of those apps only fan duel has reported being profitable thus far really even even still it's thin margins for fanduel

Very thin margins. You know, cause that's really interesting because the only name I know is draft Kings. So that is such a clear. indicator of the fact that they're marketing the wrong people, getting the wrong people. So yeah, you have brand recognition, but is that what you want? I don't know. Sometimes it is. Sometimes that is exactly what you want. But in this scenario...

I think their play is we want all the brand recognition. DraftKings wants all the brand recognition. So when these other 12 states legalize, when new markets come in, they're the first. yeah top of mind i think they're trying yeah yeah which is also a play it's a long-term play but it's a long-term play but you gotta have the marketing dollars In the interim, it actually DraftKings reported to be $1.2 billion in debt and forecast.

uh losing throughout the year as well so draft kings is majorly in debt 1.2 billion dollars and they're going to continue to lose money uh it looks like and when that when that release like their stock dropped 27 like there's gonna be pressure to be profitable now it's not a fun novelty market anymore these apps as far as casinos go they have it figured out

like they've been around they're marketing the right ways there's nothing changing there the ones to watch are the apps because it's going to start getting into the dark arts of marketing here soon they're going to start praying and being predatory on people with addictions oh that's interesting yeah and that's my warning for everybody uh any last thoughts if you want to see the beef case that'll be up on our social media i found it

And don't Google beef case. And that's it. Be cautious. Yeah, be cautious. Don't do it at work. Don't do it at work. Make sure you have your filters on. yeah there you go there you go well thanks for listening like caitlin said follow us on our socials we will be back next week bye