Why No One's Having Sex In Bed Anymore

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Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking about on Friday, the third of October. I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm Jesse Stephen, I'm m vern m And here's what's on our agenda for today. There's a new etiquette guide that is supposedly for modern gentlemen. But some of it is very useful, some of it is a bit annoying, and some of it borders on the problematic. We unpack.

Plus gen z are having sex in public places and they're not having a good time with it.

They're struggling.

And today we've got for you some of our favorite recommendations of the year that we have waited little months to tell you all about.

But first, do you need an invisible day? If you if you're feeling anxious.

Or angry, or disconnected or quite overwhelmed by the news. A therapist named Jennifer Chaikin says, you need a day to totally disappear.

From public life. So what are the rules of.

An invisible day? Well, you've got to put it in your calendar. You've got to schedule your invisible day. So let's say we go Sunday, it's going to be my invisible day. You have to tell people that you're having one, because what you don't want is for the people you would ordinarily be in contact with to panic and call the police, and then the police ruin your invisible day. So you've got to say, I'm not gonna be answering my phone, hold on, hold on, holda.

So the premise of this is that on a normal Sunday you would be in contact with loads of people. So therefore, if you decide to not be on your phone that day, a lot of people will notice.

Yes, and imagine you are just like pulling out the metaphorical plug.

And also you might.

Need to say to your partner, maybe you've got children. It's very hard to be invisible when you have children around, so you might have to say, hey, I'm going invisible on Sunday.

You sought the kids.

Oh, so it's in real life invisible as well as like digitally invisible.

Holly, So these see.

I'm midlife, I'm quite good at being invisible already.

Well, you have to work out what would feel good for you. So this is part of your planning. What does your invisible day look like? Maybe you can go for a walk, you can eat whatever you want, you can do some painting, you can watch Netflix in bed.

Whatever.

You're invisible, so there's no judgment. You get to rest, you get to sleep. But you need to just not communicate with anyone. That means no phone, it means no email, it means no social media, and no checking the news. And it's about listening to no one's needs except your own. So like you are, just imagine you've got your Harry Potter invisibility cloak and you're just hiding.

What do we think, m are you into an invisible day?

I feel like, because I live alone, it's quite easy for me to have invisible days on weekends because I just stay inside and no one's there anyway. I think what will be really hard for me is the phone aspect, not having my phone on and having to tell like my parents and my family and friends, Hey, I'm going to have an invisible day. But I also be offended if I don't tell anyone and I turn my phone off, then turn my phone on the next day and I have no notifications.

That's so true.

Actually, I am that I have this feeling when I'm starting to feel very, very tired and probably a bit burnt out, where I fantasize about laying on my bedroom floor, head down, face first, just like maybe under my bed, and just disappearing a bit. And I think that what I am craving in that moment, it's like a visceral craving of an invisible day. And I think that the phone element is very telling that often when we try and unplug, we're still just like communicating.

I know, I love being visible. I've talked about before how one of the reasons why I'm very resistant to the idea of being tracked, you know, like being on your partner's fine mine or whatever is there's something that sometimes I need to do where I am just invisible, like what I'm eating, where I'm going, where I'm spending my time, like I just it's nobody's business, and it's like for me, that's very recharging. And I do do

But doesn't the idea of an invisible day for both of you, because both of your jobs are so reliant on being across the news cycle. If you go on visible for a day, doesn't that give you more work the next day?

But what you do is, well, this is what I do. Jensey can tell us. What she does is say I want a Sunday where I basically do want to be offline as much as I can. I know that that night I'm going to need to go online and scour and check and put some ideas in and just make sure nothing terrible has happened. But I can be offline for a few hours like it's okay and it doesn't freak you out, not at all. Like if something really big happens, which often it doesn't, like it will find

Think, yeah, That's the thing is that they also say Sunday nights, I have to go weak.

You can have an invisible half day.

So if you feel exhausted at work and you're like, you know what, I just need five to eight to just disappear for a little while, you can also just do that. But in reading about this, I came across this concept called the window of tolerance, and it's the ideal range of emotional and physiological arousal when a person

We've been talking a lot lately on the show in different ways about how nobody knows how to behave anymore, and I feel like we've been telling We've been telling people how to behave. We've done a few subtepts about modern etiquette, and we've done them from the perspective of generations X Y Z, and people love on mom and MIA's site and on various people love an etiquette guide even now because it's like, can we just agree on

It's like a men's magazine, but not a pony one. No, so that GQ, but with less that we can read.

Yeah, Gentlemen's Quarterly. It is nearly one hundred years Gentlemen's Quarterly. So it's called GQ, but it was originally called Gentlemen's Quarterly and are like, we haven't been doing our job. You men are all over the place. Yeah, and it has been around for nearly one hundred years. Well it's condo nast so it's like quite high status glossy mag back in the day. I mean, no magazines are that, you know, thick and glossy and fabulous anymore. But back in the day, GQ is a big deal. And being

How About what protein I should take?

Definitely protein information, how to buy a hack sep. Yeah, And there would be like preppy sneaker guides, and there'd be interviews with male movie stars, and there'd be headlines like why leftists are suddenly lifting more weights, why you should consider a swag gap relationship, and other such things. Right, So it's a men's mac. Yeah. So the American one has published this big etiquette guide called one hundred and twenty five Rules for the Modern Gentleman, and it's like crowdsource.

I actually think that's very true.

I like this one and I sent it to a few men in our office because there've been times where've approached them and not only have they not taken them out, but they've actually put them in.

That's me, that's me. We should not be able to smell you unless we are embracing you. That's about fragrance, not body odor, Like how much fragrance you're wearing.

That's of thumb.

For all of it. For women, because when you walk past someone and you get that blast in your please, I like it, though, I go, oh, that's lovely.

Sometimes it's my dad over does the colony. We'll be in like family, like in the car as a family, and I'd be like, Dad, i have to put the windows down there too much, and he'd be like, that's so mean. You always say this about Michael.

So the rule is if I'm hugging you, I can smell it.

Otherwise, and it has to be like a nice like ooh.

Yeah, yeah, this is a good one, I think for everybody. Never say I've already seen this. When someone sends you a funny post.

Yeah, I do think I'm guilty of that.

Yes, I'm guilty.

Also, I want to add something to that because I've noticed when I like sharing funny posts with people. I've noticed my girlfriends, when they share something with me, it's they share it because they think I will find it funny. When men share something with me, they share it because they find it funny.

Oh, that's so true.

You have to cater to the person, and you're sending it to interesting. I like this particularly for men, but maybe for all of us. Never raise your voice at someone unless there's an emergency. I like that. I like that a lot. Yeah, no shouting, We're not shouting. I want to ask you about some of the dating stuff, m but I also want to get to the one

Okay? On Friday?

Last Friday, I had a little bit of work I had to do, so I went to a cafe on my own to get this work done.

Glorious.

To make it even better, there was a date happening next to me right and there was a man sitting their way to and then the woman showed up and he stood and he was clearly nervous. It was delightful. He stood up and then he kissed her on one cheek. She went to pull away, he went kissed her on the other cheek and then he no, but it was awkward, and she went oh, and he said it's a bit European.

And she said are you European? And he said no?

And who die? This man needed to kiss her once on the left cheek, and I thought, this is why we write these guides, because we just need a clear rule.

But what about man, you do know her right like? Because this one of the things that greet people you know with a single cheek? Should you greet people you don't know?

I think that there is something about shaking the hand of a grown man in a situation that isn't professional that makes me feel uncomfortable, like what are you meant to do? Part of me thinks that actually going in for like a hugger and embrace is more intimate.

No, I think I like the kiss on the especially meeting friends and the introduce to people. I think always kiss on the cheek. I just want all men to do this because I have seen so many men who get up to greet a woman and you can see the dread in their eyes.

Yes, they don't know what they don't know what to do. They freak out.

I've had a guy who had his hand crushed between a stomach and his stomach. I've like hugged a guy and I just had my all my foundation on his shirt.

I don't want to be doing that. Meet me at my level, peck me on the cheek. I need clarity. Right, you're meeting someone for the first time. So you're on a date, like the people in Jesse's cafe. If you're waiting for your date to turn up, and when he turns up, are you expecting that he will greet you with a kiss on the cheek. Yes, so not just say hi, I would find a full snog.

It's a kiss on the chake. It is absolutely a kiss.

On the chack. Okayu.

He would have been talking for about like a week or two weeks, and they're like big, Like, I'm chatting to a guy right now. We're sending like five messages per convo, so.

We're all growing.

I know who you are right now. Okay. Because I have an unpopular opinion about this, I'm not prudish about it. I don't mind it at all, But sometimes like, you know, you'll go to a barbecue or something, right and all your friend's partners are there, and there's a lot of men, there's a lot of women. You can spend ten minutes on all the going around kissing everybody like hi, Hi, and then you might not talk to them again for the rest of the day. And I'm like, do we all have to No?

No, no, I have to kiss but I can't I kiss like eighty percent in this was just one guy that's that you refuse to kid.

I know him better, so I'll kiss him, Okay twice, I'm not kissing him.

The image I'm getting is a hollyway and right high fiving people. I can't get out of my head is hollywalking into a barbecue and just going hi.

Putting here boys.

But I think that's about efficiency, and you can see sometimes a dread in people's lives.

When someone walks in.

They're like, I'm gonna do the kisses, and everybody's like getting a line and it's like everyone fucking.

And they always enough stepping on their feet yep.

And then you go, oh, now I'm going to go and everyone's like no, no, no, no no, and you're like kiss, and then you have to do it all again, Like that's not fun for anyone. I think you can do a great wave just like a Hi guys, Hi, Hi, nice to see you all.

Don't need to do all the don't need to do all the individual kissing.

I would think I've done something wrong. Are there any men who shouldn't kiss you? I mean once on the left chee? Are there any men like in your work, like the people who are upset about this information being out there and seeing it as invitations for men to just come and kissin.

Any corporate setting. I think anything even walk into a boardroom meeting and any work setting, any situation like that. Absolutely not. I think that we've got to be as gender neutral in the office as possible. Shaking hands fabulous. I just think I think that's fine out in public.

It's funny because if I see your husband Luca at work all the time, high Luca. If I come and see Luca in a social setting, kiss Luke on the cheek.

There you go.

So that's the rule.

There was another one that I thought was because this comes down to chivalry, right, which I do think is an awkward social tension.

Very at this unpopular.

Word and an unpopular word, but there is something about rules and guidelines and responsibilities that do make people feel safe. And how do you explain to young men that, you know, if you've got sons one day, they're probably going to be stronger than their mum. So how do you explain to them that helping the woman next to you on the plane to put their carry on up is a kind thing to do?

Right?

Or That was one of the rules which I thought was really good. And the other one was was the rule.

To always help with the carry out that I really like that. I think I fall in love with every man who I see do that.

It's so nice because it's like you're taller and you're stronger generally.

And the shirt lifts up a little bit.

Yeah, and they go, I've got it, and I'm like.

Thank you, can you see that? Biceps pitrude?

The other one, oh, men who help you with the pram? Oh my gosh, like I'm with stairs or whatever, And a man will often he'll just go, can I give.

Your hand with that? And just gets it.

You go, thank you so much.

But the one that they said which was interesting was about holding the door, and it was again gender neutral man, woman, as long as it's a reasonable time hold the door open for someone. And I was like, interesting, what's a reasonable time?

Though? I think we've discussed this on them Etiquette Gough.

I think we discussed it in a subscriber episode, and I think somewhere between five and ten seconds, Okay, I think.

I think the reason why chivalry has become tricky is because people love to weaponize chivalry. Right, Like you will hear men say things like, oh, you can't even hold a door open for a woman anymore, And I'm like, I have never complained about having a door held open for me, But I have complained, or at least certainly internally complained about sexist comments, the way that you looked at my boobs instead of my face, all of those

I've complained about going out to dinner with a man who insists on paying, but then subtly uses that later to trick you into having them Yeah, it's like I can see that transaction being used, but you're not allowed to insist on paying for my dinner and then expect anything in return.

That's exactly right. That's the other thing is that who men should we have to pay for dinner? So you like some bits of chivalry and not others. And it's again women understand in my experience when somebody is giving us something to get something anyway.

One day, one of my favorites and I just think we need this on the record for all our male listeners.

And I'm sorry, but it is men.

We don't like to discriminate, but it is always sneeze, as if you're at a library or a fish of it. I was reading this this morning, and I was downstairs getting a coffee and a man sneezed, and I thought it was an emergency, Like I thought that we needed to call the police because someone had broken into the building.

Why they do that?

Why do they do that?

You know what I think we should do when we hear a loud sneeze, stand up and class, because that's essentially what they want.

I hate to tell you this, but you know, also men's sneezes get louder as they get older, and there are women in my world who just sneeze has been the catalyst trying to push them.

Because you know what this anymore selfish? It's my dad.

Sneezes make literally the walls shake, and it's like you think everyone should actually listen to your sneeze, Like why don't you at least try to make it a little quiet. There is a sense of entitlement about the sneeze that I think represents a lot of other things.

I love that one em I've got some other dating ones. I want to ask. Be unambiguous when asking someone out. Suggest dinner, not drinks or coffee. We've talked about this, whether that's okay or not. Imply that you'll pay, and differentiate this hang from any previous hangs, ideally with a compliment. I always love running into you. Can I take you to dinner sometime? Thoughts? Oh, I like that.

I nearly cried happy tears when I read this, because I feel like when it comes to dating, it's like you both have preferences of what you like and what you don't like when it comes to chivalry, but you don't mention it yet because it's too early. So then you both play like kind of this political game of

I have a question for you. This one came up. I really liked it.

This was in the dating section the what exactly are we doing here? Conversation should happen somewhere around the fifth date, and basically you've got to answer it.

And I think they should initiate it.

I think they need to be because I'm always one initiating it, and then I get broken up with and I'm like, damn it, three more dates?

And there were moments where I was like, it has been seven moms, Yeah, I think it's appropriate.

And I'm like, oh, I'm not sure how I feel. I'm like, what do you think about the five date suggestion? There? Though? So five dates is enough time for it to be entirely acceptable for one or both of the parties to go what is this? I agree?

I agree five dates because if you go on a date a week, that's essentially a month you're a month in. Surely that gives you grounds of like whether you want to keep seeing me or not?

Yeah, what do you think about this? It's uncouth to show your friends someone else's dating profile. Those are meant to be seen by people on the app, and people on the app only, not your boys after you've had three drinks at the bar, or even worse, screenshotted and shared with strangers online. Don't break the contract of mutual vulnerability. Make you show me a lot of dating profile a lot, but if I ask, you'll show me. But I feel like I.

Show dating profiles in the way, like, look, how cute this guy is.

This is what he looks like.

Yeah, you're never mean. No, that's actually a good point.

I thought taking it out of context was interesting because I've seen some friends say, oh, I've saw one of your friends on a dating app and shown me, and I feel as though I'm seeing them in their.

Underwear very vulnerable. Yes, that I go.

That wasn't designed for me, and they deserve some privacy in this context. I also liked this one. Stop walking three feet ahead of your partner.

You know, Brent does this, like he walks fast and he always walks ahead of me, and it drives me crazy, Like it's we go walking together every.

Day and then they get irritated.

Yeah, and then I'm like, hey, I'm back here, and oh sorry, you have to walk next to your partner and you have to be on the road side so for carcarms you can save them. That was in here too. It actually so it's interesting because I see that as a bit of an old fed chivalrous move, but in here it did say sorry, I know it might be a bit old fashioned, but you have to be on that side. I thought, shit, am I supposed to tell my boy about that?

I think it's kind of nice.

I think when they do it quietly, it's sexy.

When I was the last person I dated, he did this in a quiet way where we be walking the street and he'll just like slowly walk behind me and walk on the other side.

So sexy. Oh that is hard. It's hard.

But if they're pushing you out of the waving home on the roadside, it's like.

That's not off the road, no yelling. I have an age gap one that I need to ask Jesse about because she has opinions. The age gap rule for adults. This is for adults. Remember used to be that men shouldn't date below half your age plus seven. We like SAGEGQ half your age plus ten. Hey, nothing's inflation proof, they joke. We can call this the gentleman's age gap and know your metabolic age doesn't count.

So I worked out it took me literally twenty four hours maths on this, but I was like, I think I broke this rule. At the beginning, but I have got in the clear as the years have gone on. I think now if I'm thirty four, then that means I could date a.

Twenty two year old.

Yeah, that sounds rare that Yeah.

And Luca's twenty eight. Oh my goodness, it's totally fine.

Yeah.

Did it look bad like at the beginning, Maybe a little bit. But the thing about age is you generally get older.

So I've been.

Dating younger recently because everyone my age and older all have kids, and I'm like, oh, I actually don't know what to do with that.

Yeah, well you've not caught them at their first divorce yet.

Yeah, so you got a way. I've got to wait it out. Yeah, half your age plus seven four like man in their forties plus ten. They said, oh, plus ten, that's right, which doesn't cause I'm four a forty four year old divorcee. Yeah. In this rule would be we're so bad at maths, all of thirty two thirty two. Mine would be like twenty five.

Yeah, so you're allowed to do twenty five. You haven't done younger than twenty five.

I've done younger than twenty five. Twenty threeman's age. I met a.

Nineteen year old in the club recently. Oh, that's a bit of it scared me. He was very into it, and I was like, no, no, in your life.

There was one I really liked, which was when someone you know has a baby arranged to send them dinner one night during the first month. And the reason I liked that one is because I thought about all the social rules that have passed through generations of women, because we're socialized to communicate and to almost share that kind of etiquette, like I've just learned from osmosis, from watching

Do that or didn't know you were meant to do that.

True, and it's a nice generational shift to think that men will now go, oh, my mate, who's just had a baby, I'm actually going to do something. And they said the same thing applies for illness or if someone's in hospital, just one dinner.

I was like, yeah, that's nice. This one is crucial in the summer. Take two hours a day.

Yep, completely agree, morning and night.

Yeah, it's a two shower situation. Don't get into do you take two showers a day. In the summer, I am a morning shower. I think we've discussed this before. You're a nighttime shower, aren't you.

Just I do both. I do get night sweats. Because of my night sweats, I do have to have.

A morning shower. And then I also, you got to be nice and clean when you get into bed.

Now, I'm a morning shower, so I do definitely get into bed dirty. But in the summer, I appreciate this one in that like if I'm going out, you know what I mean, Like I'm showering in the morning like normal, but then I'm showering again later if I'm going out doing something right.

Okay, I want to point out rule number sixty eight. No man who doesn't post for work sho'd have a public Instagram.

That is a really controversial rule. Do you think I had never considered that there was something ungentlemanly or unmasculine whatever that means about men having social media.

I incctively agree with it, and I've heard and it's wrong, Like I've heard MSA.

Public instagrams are for the girls.

What if they enjoy it? That's just a I struggle with that. I want to know if out louders think that's true, Like if a man enjoys like the sharing photos Facebook too.

No, no one knows what they're doing with their settings on Facebook. I feel like Brent's definitely public on Facebook.

Oh my god, Brent, it's definitely public. But like I'd never considered it before. It's very interesting to me. Now I'm going to see it everywhere. I'm going to be like, oh, he's got a public Instagram. I don't know block out loud as. I need to know if you agree out louders gen z.

Are having sex in all sorts of public places, and we really need an unpack.

Why out Louders.

We've got a listener dilemma and we need your collective wisdom to help us and our partner's UI solve it.

Please.

Here is the problem from our listener. Two and a half years ago, I visited my brother in law's house with my partner and our nine month old son. They had just adopted a massive bull Mastiff, their first dog ever, and they weren't familiar with dog behavior. When my sister in law picked up my crawling baby, she started yelling at the dog and batting the dog away. I saw the dog stiff and growl and go to Mauth that my son. I immediately asked if we could put the

What do you do next?

I have a question for the relationship is on the table, which is the two of you saying to your partner openly and freely, I will always choose my family over you.

Is that a red flag?

That's a real red flag, because it's like, I didn't ask you to choose.

I feel like that's.

A weird pitting them against each other. Like I wouldn't want him ever to say or pick you over my family or pick my family over you. That's not what she's asking him to do. So it feels like it almost quite a manipulative I think to say.

I think it's a red flag for him to bring it up like that. Like Jesse says, in my experience, you should never make anybody try and choose. And I have seen it happen where a woman might have gone into relationship and she doesn't like the mother in law and so she kind of she's like me, yeah, and it never works out. Well, you can't slug off other people's family. She just can't, not in like a serious way anyway. But this is really weird. This is so weird because two and a half years this is weird.

I wondered if it was a matter of picking up the phone, Like, you've got two options, right, you don't go to the family functions, or you call the sister in law slash brother in law whoever you feel like has more of the beef, and you go, can we just not this out?

Can we just been two and a half years?

Can you just this is what I felt happened. I was worried that something was going to happen with my kids. Like whether it's a misunderstanding or it feels like it got out of hand, whatever, I think you've got to at least try to nut it out. But I also understand her feeling like she's not being backed up or supported by her partner husband. That's really really not good.

So what should she do next? So you say, wake up the phone. I say, in my non confrontational style, just don't go to any more family events.

I say, talk to the husband and be like, dude, come on, sort it out.

This is your favor.

Yeah, it is true, that's when you And also he kind of agreed initially, like he also like yeah, was with her and like they picked up the baby and left. So initially he was like on her quote unquote side, And now just feels a bit weird that he's just like, I don't know what to do.

Out louders, what would you do next? Share your thoughts in the moment. We are out loud Facebook group and if you have a dilemma, send it to us at out loud, at momamea dot com, dodau.

We would love to help you fix it. Chensey, don't know where to have sex?

Have you been having sex in public? Again?

It's really stressing us. What's been going on?

Okay, So love Honey did a survey and they found that forty percent of the responding to a age between eighteen and twenty four were living with their parents. I have a lot of friends who either still live with their parents or had to move back in with their parents, and a lot of them are over the age of twenty.

Four as well.

Out of the people they surveyed, also, fifty six percent of respondent said that they had to stop masturbating or having sex because they had been interrupted, which I feel like is too high.

Of a percentage.

So gen Z have had to get a bit creative where they're having sex. A lot of them have said that they're now having sex in public places. Most of them said that they've been having sex in public bathrooms.

Oh wow, stop it, they're not hygienic. What's wrong with cars? Young people have been having sex in cars for many years. I guess you. Cars are expensive. I say, this is part of the cost of living crisis. Now the payment for it is that we have to watch out what we touch in bathrooms. We want to go get we can't be doing that. It's a whole other bit.

You're doing that when you guys were teenagers. How are you getting creative in getting a bit sexy.

Well, it's interesting that you say that, because I did a call out to the out loudest. Oh there's some dirty gaps among our out louders, And we did an anonymous poll and we said, where is the weirdest place where you've had sex in public? And the interesting detail I kept say coming up was when they were around this age, So nineteen twenty twenty one. It was public parks, lots of car parks like in cars car parks.

And the other one that was probably the most popular was the cinema right towards the back.

Cameras. Do they it's dark? Yeah?

No, they have cameras because I'm watching you, because I'm checking to see if you're filming the movie.

So then they come with their little tour a lot.

Of things really, and the person coming a little torch is usually another teenager.

I really said supermarket.

Yeah, I wondered about I wonder which is which exactly?

Surely the cheese for safe sex purposes, I hope it was the condom and loub section. And then some people said in a fire truck, there's a story there. That's the really outing story there. A church that's a bit kinky, a.

Church a graveyard came up as well.

It feels like I'm making a statement. Hotel balcony that makes sense. Paddocks of a winery.

Another one that came up a lot.

And I want us to sort of dissect this as a team, because, as you say, am not everyone has a car, Yeah, so what do they need to get an uber?

Now?

A lot of people taxis and ubers. We did discuss in our Etiquete guard a little while ago, what are the.

Driver's doing while that's happening.

I remember I told you guys how happened to my friends and she got kicked out and charged seventy dollars for public in decency.

Right, so you're not allowed you're not allowed to be doing that.

I want to know if the person she was having sex with in the back of the uber split that. Fine, ooh, that's a good attiquate question. Should you split the five?

Actually, I'm going to put it out there Jena Win's guide. If you and a partner get done for public indecency, I think you've got to pay, as.

Honestly what they think of. I think it's dependent on who's doing the most movement, because surely you're caught who's we're showing the most flesh? Like, how indecent did it get?

I feel like a lot of these responses though it's not much I need to have sex because there's nowhere else for me to have sex, and it's more voyeurism.

I think there's two different types of public sex. Yes, right, there's public sex as a necessity and the other week, I was walking across Hyde Park in the middle of Sydney, like a sort of five o'clockish, and there was this couple on the under a tree sunny evening, you know, like I don't think we're having sex, but they're really going for it. And I remember thinking oh, and then

Yeah, So the hotel balcony that came up a lot and someone said it would be easier for me to list where I haven't had public sex, like.

Wow, well, because it's some people's kink, it's.

Their kink, right, But when I've seen the most public sex has been traveling. So if you go to Italy or Greece and you go, you know what, you're staying at a hostel in a bunk bed.

Yeah, both of you are. You don't know what to do.

So you are currently on a beach lounge on a pebbled beach and it's dark, but it's not that dark, and we can hear you and see you and whatever. But you just go, fine, fine, you guys have fun, and that's totally fine. But I was reading about Japan because in Japan they have something called love hotels.

Have you heard of this?

That's by the hour, right, yes, so fifteen minutes.

You don't want to pay for an hour and then be like, oh, can I have a refund? Amelia told me about it. So basically, there are more than thirty

And the thing to cater to your particular need anything. There's another market who need this, and that is we've touched on it the other week, but it's parents with teenage kids at home, right, because once your kids stop going to bed at a certain time and they're just wandering around the house at all hours, and people's houses are small and you've got thin walls and other things, there are no times to have sex in your your

Also, you know who else needs them are people having affairs, And I wonder if they are often forced into public sex because it's like you can't go to your marital bed.

That would be disrespectful.

Well, that's what cars are for, obviously, and also why in every American movie you always get busted having a fair because your car is in the motel car Pa but the gen z is not being able to afford living by themselves or living with the roommates out of home.

It's actually affecting me even though I live alone, because does it always have to be your place?

It's always at my place?

But even more so when you're living with your parents, and even if you're an adult in your thirties, you still have to tell them that you're going out to have sex and then come back. I was seeing this guy two years ago and he was living with his parents, and it was always at my place. And then one night he messaged me and he was like, Babe, come over my parents on home and there's something so I'm sexy with a twenty seven year old saying my parents are Yeah.

After the break, we have some very special recommendations for you that we have been waiting to shout from the rooftops.

We're going to tell you why some.

Of the best books of the year all dropped this week.

One unlimited out loud access. We dropped episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link at the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week, and a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.

Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

This is my best recommendation.

It's Friday, so we want to help set up your weekend with our best recommendations. We have enough recommendations to last fe a few months, I think we do.

This is the lead up to Christmas.

Some might say it's the week that all the books come out.

Holly, please explain why it is that this kind of first week of October. We've got as Sally Hepworth, We've got a Trent Dalton, We've got a Claire Stevens, we've got a Jane Harpark.

Why are they all dropping?

So September October is the big league of book release. So there are a few times during the year when people release books, when the publishing houses release books, and they're all jostling for a bit of airtime for starters. But also the lead up to Christmas is really big. So in Britain it's actually called Super Thursday, and it's the second Thursday in October when all the big big guns will all come out and then they will all

Mad Mabel one of my favorite books of the year. Please take it away.

Also, can I say excellent cover? Yes? So Sally Hepwuss has become, without question, one of Australia's biggest writers, biggest author's friend of the pod I sell. She was one of the many people who texted me on Tuesday morning said I hope you're doing an episode about Nicole and Keith like we've got you.

Sal.

Don't worry when you ask Sally what kind of books you write, because it's one of the hardest questions to answer as an author. I think especially there's what kind of books do you? People always ask you that when you say I'm a writer, what kind of books do you write? I don't know good ones, Sally says. She writes about dysfunctional families with the side of murder. And that is what all Sally's books are. And they are all brilliant and I know out Loud has already loved them.

It's so great.

I raced through it, absolutely loved it, Mad Mabel. And the other one, Holly, that you wanted to recommend is Trent Dlton's new.

One, Trent Dalton's new one Gravity, let Me Go Now Again, Australian Treasure Trent Dalton. Everybody loves Trent and his books ever since. Obviously, Boyce Waller's Universe are always a major event. And he's done nonfiction in that time, he's done love stories and so on. This is a novel. It is great. It's a murder mystery, but it's got the character and he says it's its most personal ever, and you can totally see that. The main character in this is a

Can't wait to read Trance. Look.

My recommendation is my twin sister, Claire Stevens. Her book was officially published this week. It is called the worst thing I've ever done anyone in the public eye. And there's a lot of people in the public eye who got an early copy of this book and they have just messaged her and gone, oh my god, you got it,

Our private lives.

But what everyone's going to be talking about is the big twist. It has a massive twist at the end that is incredibly unexpected. It is just outstanding. The reviews the feedback have been amazing. You have to go and read it.

Yeah, you're going to be seeing it everywhere. Yeah, and I know that when people listening to this ago, you know all those people, but it's like, these are the books you're going to be seeing everywhere. Yeah, and they are all worth your time. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of Clasty, and she's been doing a lot, She's been busy, gat It's been a very clear Steven this kind of time.

She was on No Filter this week with Kate lane Brook. That episode is going off.

Same day as No Filter.

On Monday, her podcast The Pylon dropped with two episodes with Hannah Ferguson, who's the co founder and CEO of Cheek Media. I think this podcast goes really well with the book she's just written, and I have my copy and I'm waiting for the long weekend so i can

Just so.

Good, and I was really nervous to listen to it because with these podcasts where it's like the Pylon and talking about like the over critique that someone's faced, especially in media, I'm always scared that they're going to get an over generous edit and it will change like point of views. But it really didn't like she kind of let Hannah just take whatever she wanted to say and like make her own story out of it, and I thought it was just so so well done.

It's a little bit of that interview I struggled with a little bit. I have to say, might make out loud as we listened to it. But there's a little bit where Claire asks.

I know what I'm gonna say, And I also got a bite and about a story that Jesse wrote for Mom and Meat some years ago that Cheak media critiques.

And it's really interesting the way that they have that conversation and both of them welcome it it with an open heart. But I found some parts of that quite hard to listen to. I'm just going to say, I think it's did you know like that was going to happen?

Yes, Claire played it to me before and she said, like, are you comfortable with it? I'll cut it if you're not, And I was like, no, I think that it's important that it sits there. And you can kind of disagree

It's a bit weedy, it's a bit, but it's it's really interesting. I think one of the things about obviously Claire's book and the podcast is that it's very behind the scenes of this world that we all live in, you know what I mean. So I think that if you've ever wondered, like, what's it like to have every word you know, dissected, have people so many opinions about you, be at the bottom of a pylon, if you've wondered what it's the last stuff it's really it's going to tell you.

Yeah, And to be Hannah Ferguson at a time when the criticism is so ruthless, just awful, and Claire did this interview and then the next week probably one of the most kind of awful moments of Hannah Ferguson's career came and Claire sat down with her again, and that's

Yeah, we're living at a time right now where there are people saying awful, heenous things about these young women are just I can't anyway, It's very interesting. So that's lots of things you to read and listen to. There are more big books coming out this week that I'm sure we'll be recommending it over the next few weeks too, But I think that's about it for today. A big thank you to all of you out louders for being here with us this week as always, and to our

A big thank you to our team.

I want to just give a very special shout out to our long time executive producer Emily and Cazillis, who this week goes off to have her first baby, and that woman has smiled every day.

Oh my god, she's amazing. Weird, Like, I will miss m so much because she is the calm, heartbeat of this show, and like we're so happy for her.

I just keep saying nothing has prepared her for the newborn period more than us bitches keeping her on her eyes and the stress. I'm like, you will find this so relaxing. Actually, so we wish her the best of life.

We are going to miss her so much.

Group executive producer Ruth Devine, our producer Sashritanic.

Our senior audio producer is Leah Porges, our video producer is Josh Green, and our junior content producers are Coco and Testa.

And if you're looking for something else to listen to, yesterday subscriber episode, we had a lot of fun. We talked about all the things that make someone cool or rock and roll was the term.

There was this viral video about very specific things that make people cool.

We shared our own list, most of them didn't apply to us at all. And also on Monday show we talked about sharing personal news at work, which has been coming up on this podcast. We will put a link to all of those episodes in our show notes.

Enjoy your long weekend. If you're getting one out Louders by.

Sea, shout out to any mum and me as subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want to support us, subscribing to mom Oh may I is the very best way to do so.

There's a link in the episode description