Out louders, This is Mamma Mia out loud what women are actually talking about. And we are also the number one show in Australia for the third month in a row. Brad goes wild.
We have become insufferable.
Yeah, we're just walking around telling everyone this fact.
They call us Australia's answer to show Brogan, the Australia's answered to call her daddy. Oh they do, they really do.
I don't know they deal in common with Alex Hooper anyway. What happened is is that as regular outluders will know once a month that a chart gets released that show is the most listened to shows, not necessarily the most downloads, it's the most number of listeners, right. And we made a joke when we were when we made it to number one for the first time in January that it was only because Hamish Nandy had gone on holiday. There are nemesis, nemesi memesi. I don't know if that's a word, nemeside.
But now it's been three months running and they are back and they are firing and we are still number one, and it's only because of you out Loud as we know that, thank you, we are so proud. I'm Holly Wayne Wright, I'm Emelia Last and I'm Chlestians. And here's what's made our agenda for today, the redemption of David Harper. Yes, the man who Lily Allen outed as a butt plug enthusiast is now one of the most loved characters on television. We unpack.
Plus we're unpacking why it can feel weird when your coworker compliments your outfit.
And Reese Witherspoon is encouraging people to use AI, specifically women. She thinks we're behind Why is everyone so mad at her advice?
But first, in case you missed it, I'm bringing you some scurrilous gossip that you may well have missed because none of this is important, not even a little bit important, but we've been yapping about it in the kitchen today, so we thought we'd extend the app to the show Little Rundown of Gossip. First up, unless you have successfully locked your phone in a safe, which obviously we would buys certain periods of the day, you would know that the devil was prior of two is out next week.
Even if you had locked your phone in a safe. I was driving yesterday and looked beside me on a bus huge, but I was like, that is the biggest billboard for a movie I've seen years.
I got my tickets ready to go.
I can't wait. Are you going next week? Or she'll be able to give us the first rundown. Anyway, everybody wanted to be in this reboot because reboots are hot. We love existing Ip and Hathaway, Meryl Streep, Stanley Tucci was not to like Gaga makes a cameo in it, Naomi Campbell makes a cameo in it, Natella the Such he makes a cameo in it, but not all the cameos that were filmed made the cup. Sydney Sweeney had hers taken out. Apparently.
I always think about how devastating this would be as an actor to have like turned up, got your hair and makeup done, learnt lines filmed, and then have it cut out. It's quite the ego, Bruce well He apparently.
Entertainment Weekly reported that Sidney Sweeney filmed roughly a three minute scene near the top of the movie where she played herself being dressed for an event by Emily Blunt's character, who's now running Dior's US operations. Spoilers, but according to a source, the scene did not work structurally with the real rest of the sequence and it had to go.
There's a fun podcast, Vogue US podcast about interviewing three of Anna's recent former assistants about how accurate the movie is to actually being her assistant, and one to bit I took from it is that there is a twenty one page manual for her assistance.
Oh wow, that's a long man I have to say.
I love emanual though it's like it's all written here. I reckon. She goes through them so greatly. It's like I need to it all down for training.
But life is divided into two camps of people. People who like manuals and people who don't.
Like I would be putting it to the sad work it out.
You would not be a good assistance.
I'll definitely like that anyway. Our Laura Brodnick, who host on the Spell Entertainment grew up Mamma May. It was the jammy person from Mamma Mia who got to fly to Korea to interview Merrill and Anne and all the stars because that's where the Australian junkit went. Asked Merrill, I guess what she does have in common with Miranda Priestley, and she revealed a bit of that and also said that not only Sydney Sweeney, but she got cut to I.
Wanted to ask you both, was there a particular request that you put in that you wanted for your characters in order to do this equal Well.
I don't know. I always try to hurl my weight around in these issues, but I didn't have any any improvements to make on the script. I thought it came to me just as fully formed and wonderful. Of course I was cut out of quite a bit of it, but.
I think that the whole arc of the character made so much sense to me in this version.
I loved what.
Ellen had pictured as the dilemma that Miranda faces facing the digitalization of media.
So there's cut scenes of Miranda Priestley that we might not see. Oh yes, I'm sure if they have a DVD anymore.
Okay, moving on to more scoreless nonsense. My good friend Harry Styles may be engaged.
What what's the evidence? Because I've seen a headline and is this just like a random piece of unsubstantiated gossip.
You know, he's going out with Zoe Kravitz, who is awesome in every way. They've been doing what they do best, which is they walk around European cities in baseball caps and big coats, looking really cool holding coffee. That's what they did.
I mean, isn't that what any of us.
Were doing in the latest pictures of them doing that? Though she's barely able to hold her coffee cup from the weight of the diamond rock on that finger.
Ah, that's a choice.
So lots of people are like, oh, but I just like to imagine that celebrities who have a lot of rings to choose from just get up some mornings and think I'm going to fuck with them. Let's just put this ring on this finger today and wander about a bit, get oversized coffees, and just see what happens.
I think they're throwing a bone to the media generally. They're like, times are tough for you guys, so I'll put on a ring, give you some headlines, and we're all like, thank you.
They need some clicks. And finally, we do not endorse paparazzi imagery, even though that's where we show the rock.
So I didn't see saw.
Sorry, I'm the trash one. Here, we all know that we do not endorse paparazzi imagery, et cetera. And yet it's good to see that the papwalk is alive. And well, this morning I saw what we might call a pap frolic all over my internets, which is Kim Kardashian and Emily Vernham's good friend Lewis Hamilton in Malibu, basically like living their best lives. She's wearing a wetsuit, although it could be a new Skim's evening gown because let's face it,
very similar Vine. She's wearing a wetsuit. They're like running into the waves. They're cuddling each other. This is a hard papaatte.
So sorry, isn't this this is Wednesday today?
Right? So were they doing this.
On a Tuesday?
Kim have a business to run and you need to study for your law because, as she passed.
Here, your children fifteen children exactly. So I'm in awe of this Tuesday frolic. But my question is why still do And so the pictures from my once well trained eye look very set up like they're very good pap shots, and I'm like, why would you do that? In this day and age when you're Kimkard rather than just post the selfie, like why wouldn't her and Louis just be like great day down at Malibu post rather than pretend they've been crept up on. I think her and Lewis
ready to go fully public. They've been teasing. There's been like a little bit of soft launching with like a bit of Lewis's hand on her shoulder and a car, a bit of this and that on her Instagram, I mean, on her official channels. They're ready to hard launch. Maybe appearing like they've been busted rather than like a going full hard launch is like.
No' very mindful, very demure.
Yes, it's like a semi hard launch.
Yeah. Last week, Reese Witherspoon posted a video to her thirty million Instagram followers encouraging women in particular to embrace aar.
Only thirty million. I've come on, Reese, it's like thirty points see wow.
So her Instagram caption read, the AI revolution has begun and I need to learn as much as I possibly can about AI and share it with all of you. She also said in the caption the jobs women hold are three times more likely to be automated. By AI, Yet women are using AI at a rate twenty five percent lower than men on average. In the video, she's making this movie in her kitchen, and this is what she says.
I think it's time to learn about AI.
I was with ten women at a book club yesterday and I said to the ten of them, how many of you guys use AI?
And only three of them used AI?
And then I said, how many of the three of you feel like you really know what you're doing or they're using it the right way?
And that was only one person.
So if three out of ten women are the only ones using AI, that means seventy percent of that group is not keeping up. The thing I've learned about technology is if you don't get a little bit of understanding from the very beginning, it just speeds past you.
The math smart Now.
I bet your last chat to VTA for.
The percentage.
I was complaining about Kim frolicking and Malibu. I kind of wish all celebrities are just frolic tuesdays.
Right, fiddling with their blender and talking to us about AAR.
I know.
So the big question about this has been I mean, for one, the backlash was pretty immediate people very annoyed in the comments, saying things like this sounds like a script from tech Bros. Or podcast Bros. It sounds like a commercial. So there was questions about whether it was an undisclosed ad, even though I'm like, it wouldn't be a very good ad because it's just for AI as a concept.
Also, is this a.
Book group that she like appeared in as a guest or is this like her and Hilary Duff I, like Renees el Worker getting together to talk about the secret?
Yes, is this book club? Everybody? We all know about that, But there.
Were only thirty people in it. Sorry, there are only ten people.
I think it's a very exclusive group.
Okay, I want to be in that book club. There was another comment that said, I think it's okay not to keep up with men on everything murder, violence, technology, but rots brains. But I My first thought when I saw this, and especially the fact that Reese spoke about it in the context of a book club, was there has been so much controversy in the book world about AI and the fact that there are now you know, potentially entire books written by AI, that books have been
pulled from shelves. When we found out that the authors of USDAI book covers all of that. I thought, Oh, pairing book club with are you using enough AI? Is kind of on the nose. But Holly, did you feel personally attached?
So I saw this in the wild because obviously I follow Reese Witherspoon, and I came across it, like, what's Ree's here to tell me about today? I thought she was going to maybe give me a smoothie recipe.
I know it was misleading or indeed.
A book recommendation, because many of her book recommendations are excellent. And so I was like, mister similar, little bit strange. Why why is Reese Witherspoon telling me to use AI? So I asked my robot. I went to the robot and I said, why would this be the case? And
guess what. The generation who would make up most of Reese Witherspoon's followers, which would probably be people around my age and women in their forties, their fifties and beyond who you know, they watched her in Sweet Home, Alabama. They they love her, right, She's a trusted voice to them. We are the slowest adopters of AI, particularly the women of that age and the robot helpfully gave me this information with a little picture to represent us of a tortoise.
There's a little picture of a tortoise, and it said the slowest adopters, they might as well have gone. No Boomers and gen X. There is a significant generation or divide. Roughly fifty percent of boomers do not use AI at all, and sixty eight percent of total non users come from gen X or Boomer cohorts. So Reese is talking directly to AI's target mark because AI, and you're right, it's not one thing, it's lots of companies. But still they want everybody to be on board with the robots, not
just a few people. And so who would you get the robots are canny? Who do you get to convince people that you are not, you know, faceless, energy sucking job stealers, but you are helpful assistants who can make a busy woman's life easier. You ask Greese withtherspoon to do it. And of course the truth about that statement.
By the way, making a smoothie is exactly what the robots would suggest. You should be doing it as you picture to women, and that's what busy women do.
They do. And then they wouldn't tell you exactly what to put in it to have the highest protein content, et cetera, et cetera. I think the truth, of course, is that AI is both those things. It is the
energy sucking job stealer and the helpful assistant. I asked out loud as if they were what they were using it for, because a lot of them fall into the same category as Reese's people, and they were like, yeah, absolutely, travel, meal planning, gardening info, community sports people are using it to plan out their teams and all that kind of like people. So lots and lots of Reese's people are using AI. It does smell them in weird.
I smell a route in Reese's kitchen along with some masai and some cottage cheese. Because she has done this before, Guys, she has done this before. She did it with crypto. Now, thankfully we don't have to think about crypto very much anymore. But in case you forgot, it's the currency favored by criminals worldwide that is essentially gambling.
I was about to ask, i'm I just did an un.
Licensed Sorry I interrupted you.
Please me.
I was going to ask you why we don't have to worry anymore. But then I thought, maybe that's a different podcast.
It's very boring. Basically, just don't worry about it.
Don't worry about it, just.
A very silly idea.
But all the celebrities got on the crypto bandwagon in a big way, like Matt Damon did a Super Bowl out about it, Gwynneth and Kim Kimmy Kay both tweeted about it. But Reese had this series of tweets in late twenty twenty one and in twenty twenty two she espoused how great cryptocurrency was, and I just want to read two to you because they're super robotic in the throne.
The first one says crypto is here to stay. I'm committed to supporting creators who have pioneered the NFT space and encouraging more women to be part of this conversation. By the way, NFTs, don't even worry about it. It's some like fake way to get money from it.
And the captured on this sounded quite similar, to be honest, like it was.
Like a robot wrote it. And then it turns out that she did invest in crypto. Hello Sunshine, which is her company, even sold NFTs again, don't worry.
About it a fake thing to her money on.
So she was definitely financially interested in that sector, and it was kind of cynical of her to sort of guilt trip women or to make them feel like if they weren't on this bandwagon, they were missing out on this great opportunity, because it turns out it was not a great opportunity. Now we don't know how AI is going to go. It could turn out to be the
end of the human race or its new flowerishing. But the point is there are lots of ways to invest in that sector, and I am sure that Reese with a Spoon has a lot of interest in making sure that women are using AI.
She's denied, so, I mean, that's exactly what I thought when I came across it, and I was like, this smells funny. But she has flatly denied that she's being paid.
Oh, I don't think she's being paid. But there is this set of companies in the US called the Magnificent Seven, and they are tech companies who are basically running the US stock market. She doesn't have to be paid to have a financial interest in making sure that women use aias that's a really.
Good point if she's invested in it and then wants to get people using it more. But I wonder if it's if it's backfired. Not that it could backfire in any tangible way with the mass adoption of AI, but the thing it made me think with the question of so she said she asked these women, three of them were using it, which one of those or how many
of them those three actually know what they're doing? And one of them said, yes, ask anybody who actually knows what they or who feels like they're using AI to its full capacity. I was like, this is another one of those things that we're just always going to feel deficient in that you never know enough. Like I don't think anybody feels like they're using AI to the full
extent of its capacity. I like, I don't know. I play around on chat GPT, but I don't want that to be another stick I beat myself with day day that it's like, Okay, I've got to get my protein, I've got to make my smoothie, and I've got to be on top of the most cutting ed edge technology that is literally updating daily.
True, although the robots can help you do all that, body stop stop out is like I invested one in an ambiguous AI company. I also sidebar. Now I really want Amelia to just do a little segment where it's like, these are things you don't have to worry about.
Yeah, I'm not going to on a Tuesday, so what do I know?
No, I need the same thing.
In a moment, just a few short mom months ago, this man was one of the most hated people on the internet, and now he's everybody's favorite cuddly dude. We are unpacking the bounce back of David Harbor. Sometimes pop culture is really really weird. Right in my world, I'm watching clips from Lily Allen's live show roll out across the world. So she's on her west End Girl tour.
It's already been around Europe, now it's in America. It's doing all the capital cities, etc. It's not a normal live show this it's not like a concert where she plays all her hits. It's like a one woman performance of her album west End Girl, complete with costume changes and props. And it's just Lily on the stage basically performing that album.
Right, but there's a band with her.
Well you don't see the band. Oh no, it's just her and she's like, there's a boudoir set and she's doing things like So, just a quick recap in case
anybody missed this seismic moment. She released this album in October last year, and it is a blow by blow account of the disintegration of her marriage to David Harbor, the star of Stranger Things, which includes all kinds of very titillating and heartbreaking revelations about his cheating, about his request for things to be open, for her to discover that things were rather more open than she thought, and
so on and so on. So she's basically performing the deterioration of this marriage, complete with props like the infamous plastic bag that she rummaged through and found all the butt plus the.
Most famous plastic bag since Katy Perry's firework.
Yeah, absolutely put spot on pop culture references. There really lester. In fact, this little grab of pussy Palace we're about to play you just to jog the memory. While she's singing this, you'll see she's like on the bed and she's picking up the plastic bag and rummaging through it and pulling out butt pluck. Here we go, way read bag with the handles by sex close but pluklu eggs by hundreds of children.
You're so bucky broken? How do I get more in your job?
The crowd and going wild?
What I'm just thinking. She wouldn't have been able to write this in Australia. You can't get a plastic to save your life. And it had to be the sex toys in the brown paper bag, right, the.
Plastic bag is very important.
So anyway, funny that that album is actually catchy.
Oh, I love it. Doesn't sound grude.
I love the album. I'm going to this show in October. I can't wait. Although like it does look kind of flat.
Kind of weird. Did not sell me.
There is a moment where in the show, for example, she wears a dress that is made of printed receipts from all the things that she found David Harbor had brought for other women. I mean, she is like not, she is going hard. It's great anyway, David Harbor, if you're not if you don't remember this excellent moment was the guy in Stranger Things, That's who is I've just rewatched all of Stranger Things with my children. He's great in it. His character in it is prickly and particularly likable,
but he's really great in it. I'm not proud of this, but watching rewatching Stranger Things with my children, I found myself explaining the Lily David problem to my daughter.
And you're like, have I ever told you.
About tell her about that? But I was like, I was kind of like, I know, we like Hopper, but he cheated on one of my favorite pop stars. And they're just looking at me, like what exactly? Anyway, that's too much information, but anyway, I digress. So that's what Lily's doing right now.
And they've sold the Brownstone in Brooklyn.
The divorce is over, they're done. But right now Lily is touring that album. And also right now, David Harbor is on the Hottest show on TV Now. A lot of out Louders are probably watching this because Claire's recommended it. It's called dt F Saint Lewis, and also we saw them chatting about it in the group. I know you've been watching it, Emelia. It is so great.
It's good.
But interestingly, David Harbor, who's one of the two main stars and three main stars in this, plays an incredibly likable guy, like.
So likable, just a turdy bear. Of a man.
Yeah, Yeah, wouldn't you describe him as.
A very and very importantly quite vulnerable and imperfect, but somebody who's imperfect but their motivations are so pure. Yes, that's what's Yeah.
And he's a sign language interpreter and he's a great step dad to his kid, and he's like wrestling with self esteem issues like he's great.
Right, And the show itself is about without any spoilers, the show itself is a about fidelity in fidelity and shows kind of the messiness of that.
Interestingly, he would have been filming this show at exactly the same time she was recording that album, so it's not like that album. It was like apparently that album was recorded in about February last year, and this movie, this show was filmed between February and May last year.
And is he a creator of the show. No, I don't.
I think Jason Bateman is an EP. It might be an EP too.
Yeah, but yeah, not involved in Okay, So it's not like he wrote this role as a redemption or anything.
But what is happening and what we want to talk about, if I've been talking about lots of things, is that we're very bad. I think at separating characters from people, but we so we are obsessed with likability. And I got a lot of messages during the last season and Stranger Things because the Lily revelations came out just before that. What a coincidence, just before that show kicked back in for its final record breaking season. I've got a lot
of messages during that time. So finding it hard to watch him, finding it hard to watch this guy now right, And his response to the tsunami of attention was very interesting. He didn't comment, which is rare in this day and age. He didn't comment at all. Really, he did minimal promo for Stranger Things, and then he just kept moving. He's got about three big action movies coming out this year, his careers on fire. But it's really interesting that he didn't.
But what I'm feeling swelling up and seeing around on the internet is this kind of like, oh, David, and I'm feeling even a brewing Lily backlash because we just kind of want this narrative to somehow mean more than it probably does.
And what's interesting is that the exact same thing, that exact confusion between character and actor is happening to another star of another huge TV show right now, which is The Pit. The Pit finale was just last week of season two. Who We're definitely not going to give away any spoilers here, but the pendulum of public opinion has swung wildly away from its start. Noah Wiley doctor Robbie
on the show. Now, we talked just a couple of weeks ago on this show about how that character kind of embodies what's now being called competency porn, this idea that when someone is so good at their job, it makes them unbelievably hot. And everyone loved Doctor Robbie and by extension, Noah Wiley, and he was just riding high on this idea that the show was great.
He was a great guy.
And now doctor Robbie slash Noah Wiley is giving.
Us all the ick.
What did he do?
It happened in like two weeks. It's really bizarre.
What we do know is there was a GQ interview he gave which people were really turned off by. And he says things in it like I made jokes on set this season where I'd say, someone bring.
Me another woman to yell at oh.
And then there's another part in it where he talks about so unlike David Harber, Noah Wiley was very involved in the creation of this show, The Pit, And there's a scene in the GQ article where he's telling the cast, if you're looking for better writing, there isn't. If you're looking for more resonance from your work, there won't be. It doesn't get any better than working on the set of The Pit. And everyone's kind of rolling their eyes
at that. And it's also sort of conflated with the idea that on the show he does do a lot of yelling at women.
He does do a lot of yelling at women of color in.
Particular, and there's just this kind of brewing backlash that both Noah Wiley and his character Doctor Robbie a jerks. But what fascinates me about this is the whiplash because David Harbor at least had a few months to kind of go to ground.
Noah Wiley, everyone loved him one week and then hate it in the next.
It was literally there was so much of a cultural moment around even just how hot he was. Yeah, I think it was the baftis and wearing a wearing a suit and he did that bit with Christian Bell where he got her to read out all this like medicalnology.
Everybody loved that.
There was so many like viral moments where we were just loving him, going back to Er and being like, how did we how did we sleep on this? Like how did we figure.
George Clooney got all the attention in there?
Yeah, and you're thinking, how did we forget about this? And you're right. The trajectory of the show, which has kind of showed him to be a flawed human, which he was at the beginning, but he's had some unflattering character moments that has definitely been extrapolated to who he is in real life.
So that's so his his not being the perfect person on the show has robbed off on his real life persona. And he could argue that David Harbor things a bit the other way round, for him being a perfect, well not perfect, but a very sympathetic character on the show is rubbing off on him in a positive way.
Exactly so with Noah Wiley, you a couple of weeks ago he got his his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame and there was all this analysis about who wasn't there to support him, and because he's made enemies of all these previous castmates and everyone's ever worked with, and so much of this stuff is without any evidence, and obviously those quotes are not great, but.
You'll also shows him self awareness if he's like, bring me another woman to yell at. What he means is that's what they're doing on the show.
Yes, yes, but it's like that classic giving situation where everything they do starts to annoy.
You, rightly or wrongly.
But look, I think there might be a way out of this trap, because it clearly is a trap for people in the public eye. And in fact, I'm reading Lena Dunham's or I'm listening to Lena Dunham's new memoir Fame Sick right now, and she even talks about how confusing it is that when you're a famous person, your name starts to mean someone else. It starts to mean
like a character. And so she talks about feeling alienated from the idea of Lena Dunham because Lena Dunham in the public eye means something different to what she knows Lena Dunham is.
Yeah.
There was a quote from her in that New York interview that we talked about the other week, Claire, where she said she wanted to go and vote, and her dad said and she wanted her dad to come with it, and he said to her, I just don't think I can go and vote with Lena Dunham.
Yeah, And she.
Was like, yeah, I know what you mean, Like, yeah, I have to go out there being Lena Dunham today rather.
Than just yeah, than just Lena Dunham, your daughter. And there was another I've seen something else going around about how she There was a question on a game show or a quiz or something that was like, who is Lena Dunham And she was like, I'd love to know. Yeah, I have no idea, but it is that thing of you, especially with her. Actually she was just different. Hannah Horvath and Lena Dunham became the same person. And what I
need to hear from you about the memoir. To me, Adam Driver is the same as his character and.
Girl, Well that's what's interesting because I want to posit that Adam Driver has somehow managed to escape this situation because in the memoir, which yes, is so good that I'm listening to it while brushing.
My teeth, it's that kind of boa on my list.
One thing that she makes clear in the book is that Adam Driver is a very confronting person to work with. She talks about the very first sex scene they did.
Sorry he played her boyfriend Adam from the beginning, and he was always well I've heard her say like, he wasn't a great boyfriend, even though by the end of the arc people kind of like that. And then he went on to be quite a significant Hollywood star. He's been in Star Wars, movies, Maage.
Story, so on.
Yeah, he's a huge star now. But the very first scene that they shot together was a sex scene. But then Adam Driver kind of pushed the boundaries in the
sex scene. She was the director, so she told him exactly what she wanted to happen in the sex scene, and this is pretty intimacy advisors on sets, and then he kind of just did something totally different, and at the end of the scene, while she didn't feel violated, she said she did feel kind of a little bit set off her equilibrium, a little bit discombobulated.
But then everyone applauded.
Because he'd done this amazing job and he was kind of forgiven.
Celebrate the genius, the male genius.
Well, exactly do you think that the reason why Adam and then she goes on to say that he also throw a chair on set once, but she doesn't sort of blame him for it. Why do you think Adam Driver is able to exist above this trap that all these other celebrities fall into.
I think it's because when you start watching Girls, you watch the first episode, you go that man's disgusting, that man is gross, he treats her badly. I don't get the appeal, and then slowly, over several seasons, you fall in love with him, and you fall in love with him Watson all. You know, he's angry, you know he's immature, you know he says the wrong thing, and he can be a dick, but there is enough lovability there that it kind of cancels it out. So I think he
is almost immune from what Lena Dunham's writing. I don't think it will affect his reputation in Hollywood all because I think that's who we understood him to be in the first place, which is unfair.
Which is yet another example of the character rubbing off on the person. Right, Because whether out of them Drivers like that in real life or not, we don't know. Well, I want to ask you. We do forgive men more easily than we forgive women for anything that suggests they're
anything other than a perfect person. If a famous, powerful woman, you know, isn't nice enough to her assistant, isn't you know, lovely enough to everybody on set doesn't respect the director suggests screen script changes whatever we're like, what a bitch? What you know? I don't mean we are, but the culture is, you know, not kind. And it's interesting. I think, you know, all of these situations are quite different if
you think about David Harbor. Nothing he did was nothing that Lily Allen accuses him of doing is illegal or desperately abusive. But it's definitely bad behavior, no question right. And I think a lot of women sympathized with her enormously about being in a relationship with a gas slidey guy who keeps telling her, but you said this was fine, and I thought you like this, and you know, and all of those things. And I think a lot of women related to that. And he was very smart, I
think in his response because the problem. I think one of the reasons Adam Driver gets away with it, for example, is he's not a celebrity like he is.
But he's not.
I don't know where he lives. I don't know if he's married. I don't know if he's gay, straight, whatever. I don't know if he has children. David Harbor back in the Lily Allen days in particularly, I know what the inside of his house looks like.
We know what he has inside, some plastic bags.
But even from his sharing like he was a celebrity, he clearly really enjoyed that stranger things moment of going from jobbing actor to superstar. And I saw their wedding and I saw and so that was a bit of that sort of He's a celebrity with a person sona that now can be torn down, and he seems to have opted to go back to the private. He hasn't. He's scrubbed most of personal things from his Instagram. He has got a new partner. She's a twenty seven year
old model. You do with that what you will. And he's moved on, so has Lily. But like he is not.
Two years older than Leo, that's true.
He he doesn't talk about anything public anymore, and I wonder if that's because he's just had the experience of the leopard eating his face, you know, what I mean, like, I love being famous for a hot minute. I let everybody in this is what happened to me. Whereas Adam Driver, Like if he's a bit of a dick, does it matter do we go and see Adam Driver movies? Because we think he's a nice guy?
I know.
And I also think that with these three men, and I think the Noah Wiley thing will be short lived and he has room redemption in a couple of weeks. Yes, I think we allow men a level of complexity to their character that we don't allow to.
Through a chair. Then it was just because you know, that's his process.
So yeah, what I think this one exception, I don't think Timmy Charlon May is coming back from ballet gate when he said that ballet and opera, I think.
There's I think there's enough time. I think he just has to give it time. But this is also my theory that the antidote to any backlash, outrage, public shaming is creating good art.
Like you look, that's such an optimistic tape.
No, I do think you love it. Ultimate distraction and it is what gets people to forgive you. And you look at Taylor Swift and you look at how she went through a very very tough moment. And then it's like, if you make good music, people forgive you.
Isn't it also just staying the course, like keeping your head down and keep going to an extent.
Ye, But with David Harbor, this this has been called the finest performance of his career. He might end up winning lots of awards, winnings of awards, And I think being really good at what you do makes people.
I like to imagine that Lily's in a hotel room on tour and she's just like throwing shit at the table watching that show.
Like I thought, you don't away with you or this is not how it was?
You know how? We often look for happiness advice from people who have been through adversity, like there was that there was that amazing, amazing book by the Holocaust survivor about like the Happiest Man Alive. We often look for people who have perhaps been through the darkest of.
Times, or like maybe very old people who've really seen all of lives ups and.
Down exactly, and we want people to impart wisdom upon us about how to truly live a joyful, grateful life. Well, have you ever thought that maybe that was wrong, and maybe you should be getting your advice on happiness and gratitude from Lauren Sanchez Bezos, because that is who's.
Giving some She looks pretty happy.
Yeah, she does look happy. So she is the wife of Jeff Bezos, who's now worth is around the two hundred and fifty billion dollar mark.
It's doubled in the like the last five years, which you know, when you start with one hundred and twenty five billion and then you end up with two hundred and fifty billion. If he gave a million dollars to every single person in America, it still has some change.
See that the billion in billionaire will never it will never make any sense. It's a lot, is all the out loud.
It's to know.
But Lauren Sanchez Bezos has done this profile with the New York Times and they run with the headline someone has to be happy, Why not Lauren Sanchez Bezos, to which I say, I don't really care about her happiness, but anyway, and then it's got at the top of the article as half of an unfathomably powerful couple, missus Sanchez Bezos seems to have influenced the uber rich to stop apologizing and start enjoying.
Oh my god, because they were so apologized before, they were so hiding the light under a bushel.
Really, their wedding is the best example of that. Yes, so private, not flashy, But the part that's drawn a lot of attention is about how she and her husband practice gratitude. We know we're meant to practice gratitude, guys, So here's some advice. So on a typical day, the newlyweds wake up around six in. Then you roughly two hundred and thirty million dollar compound.
Okay, it's in a compound called the Billionaire Bunkers.
In Florida, which is not where I spend my money.
But you do look at me doing Listen if I've got any choice, as if anyone's asking me if I want to go live with a billy, then no, no, no, thank you, no no noice.
Harry with the coffees.
Yeah yeah, but private island in Miami. They don't touch their phones, So that's what we're going on.
Really, Jeff doesn't touch.
He seems like you should be busy instead. They begin each day by listing ten things they're grateful for, and they can't repeat what they named the day before.
I've been thinking about this literally every morning since I first read it two weeks ago, and but what I've concluded is that ten is too many things to be grateful for, Like my health is just one thing unless they start listening individual organs like my liver, my kidneys.
I reckon, Jeff probably is doing that your breast.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, no, you're left breath yeah changing. I like exactly the ten things. And then there was an amazing article in the Atlantic called the ten things the Bezos's are almost certainly grateful for each morning by Alexandra Petrie, who always does hilarious things. And my favorite
thing was that it just said number one money. You can't repeat yourself, but I guess maybe each day it's like one money, the next day, one cash on this particular bank account, this particular billion tax bras.
Wow, which really should listen to rich people more.
Really helpful?
After the break, Why do I feel weird when a gen Z coworker compliments my outfit? So a truth about getting older is that you don't really realize you are getting older. I still think of myself as this incredibly precocious twenty four year old, and I bounce into the office with that energy. And then it's come to my attention recently that in fact, there are people younger than me in this office.
Yes, which is.
A little bit shocking, and a lot younger.
Yeah, like I thought they were still in daycare, but no, they're working.
Oh, lots of them have been born in the two thousands.
And when one of them compliments my clothes, I get sent into this absolute talespin. I thought that was just me. But Delia Kai, who writes this amazing newsletter called These Links, she wrote about this exact phenomenon recently and I felt deeply seen by it. She said, whether consciously deployed or not, there's a real power move pulled anytime a young coworker compliments you the older on your clothes. And then she goes on to pinpoint exactly why she feels weird about this.
But first I want to know two things from each of you. One do you feel the same way? And two what was the thing you got the last thing you got complimented on by a gen Z co worker.
This morning, our gens Z social genius Tessa complimented my shirt in the kitchen.
It is very good.
Did not feel weird. I don't relate to this.
We just describe the shirt because it's amazing.
Well, this shirt is from an op shop, so I get double points. Laurence Sanchez couldn't. It's from an op shop, it's got fish on it, and I got it a couple of years ago, and I wasn't brave enough to wear it, and now I started wearing it and Tess, Actually I got two compliments this morning, both from gen Z's. I love getting compliments, same ship, so I love getting so I don't mind at all.
This is a millennial neurosis. When discovering Claire.
Yeah, M complimented me on my T shirt yesterday. T shirt I was thinking, is the same one I'm wearing today? No, it's not in the world white T shirt with like a print on it.
Okay, but humble bragg But.
I was very aware that. I was like, this is one of those compliments someone gives you because you're pregnant. You look terrible. And she's like, I like your T shirt.
Yeah right.
And I wonder the Genzas have been giving a lot of compliments recently, and I wonder if they've read some advice about how that's good for social skills, and then I start doubting whether it was genuine in the first place.
Delia talks about when she was a young person, she had this HR manager at her first job who wore really insane outfits like booty shorts and couture in the same outfit, and she says, I probably wanted to get to know her, but I was so bewildered by her seniority that all I could ever muster was a quick scan of her outfit, where I'd pick one thing to compliment.
And I do know what she means. When you were young, older people are really kind of confusing, and particularly when they wear confusing clothes, and sometimes you blurt out something that may or may not be true, just because it feels like you need to acknowledge the weirdness between you. But look, I should also say that em was really mad about this. She said that compliment is just a compliment from a young person, but sometimes it can be barbed.
Explain to me why it feels weird. I don't understand. So if Tess or m or someone today said to you love your shirt, Amelia, what.
For the record, they didn't, which is fine.
Would you be worried about Look, I think what we're unpacking here is just a sort of like fundamental truth about the passage of time, which you wholly have come to terms of the fact that you are not twenty four anymore.
Yeah, right, and I think that Claire and I are not yet quite bad?
Isn't that?
But isn't the compliment like a nice thing where you could still feel like you were twenty four? Why do you.
Feel like it's petrolize?
Well?
Producer Ruth told us the story that she got complimented in the office recently. She wears a signature scent which is amazing, and a younger coworker said that it reminded her of her mind.
They see that is a barbed compliment, but just a young person admiring your See, some people are just weird with compliments. And is it millennials? Because I like giving compliments, and I also I don't love receiving compliments, But the kind of compliments like nice shoes, I mean easy compliment to me, that's an uncomplicated complimence, right, I don't have to like go, well, you know when someone goes you've got nice hair, and you immediately go kind of oh,
But it's so today nice shoes is straightforward. Thanks, I like them too.
Okay, I'll take the bait. I think this is the reason why why I feel weird. And maybe Claire you can tell us whether you agree. I think it's because millennials feel constantly under attack by jen Zaid constantly. So The New York Times just a couple of weeks ago published an article that declared that winged eyeliner was out. Yeah, And I took that personally, as Michael Jordan once said, do you know what I mean?
I just feel like they're out together.
So we've been We've been talking on the show about this stuff for a while. They have canceled while we've been talking on this show, the infamous skinny jean side part. They kicked it all off, right, But we have talked in the last recent Times about them canceling mascara, Ye, getting your nails done.
Wanting us to do the lipstick that looks like we've just been kissed.
Yes, socks eyeshadow got canceled. Socks was a big flash point for a while there.
Ankle socks, bad high socks.
Yes, And whenever we talk about this, slash right about this because I wrote a newsletter about the MASCA because I took that. I did take that personally, Lots of people just say to me, why do you care what the young people think? Like, why do you care about that question? And also like screw them, where your stupid socks with bride?
What I think it's because taste slash, what we think looks good slash, what we think is flattering is so socialized and internalized, And as you get older you kind of realize that because when you're like in my twenties, I was very convinced that what I believed was flattering and what I believed looked good really did. And then having the benefit of a little bit of hindsight, you think, oh, no, that was just that looks good because that was the trend and that sort of wearing, and all the people
who look good were wearing that exactly. Yes, And then now I'm very aware that things I thought flatter were flattering weren't. Things that I thought weren't flattering were probably fine. And it's also this thing that jen Z has, which is like railing against the idea of things being flattering or things being like I feel like I had quite a narrow idea of beauty standards, where it was like tight tight clothing, you want to look pretty, like all.
Of it worth, let's just call out the elephant in the room thin, yes, pretty and.
Sin exactly, Whereas now I feel like there's a bit more like character and grit to how you're meant to look that I feel like I don't fully have a grasp on. So I think, Amelia, I wonder if we have to confront the fact that when we get these compliments and we feel funny about it, I think it's about us. I think we've internalized I'm not quite right.
Yep.
Like I walk into situations being like, I know this is wrong, and then someone gives me a compliment and I'm like, they're trying to make me feel less out of water a millennial slogan. I know this is wrong, all of it.
We want to learn from you. Thank you for the compliments give us.
Oh gosh, well that is all we have time for this month. Modday. It's not Monday, it's Wednesday. Sometimes Wednesdays feel like a Monday. Thank you to our amazing team for helping us put this show together. Well, actually just for putting the show together. Thank you to all of the out louders who have helped make this show the most popular in the country. We are going to be back in your ears on Friday. Goodbye Bye.
Mum.
Mayer acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we've recorded this podcast.