Hello, and welcome to Mom and me are out loud. It's what women are actually talking about on Monday, the fifteenth of June. I'm Holly Wayne Wright, I'm.
Claire Stephens and I'm Amelia Wister.
And here's what's made our agenda for today. Gwyneth Paltrow has made a lot of people extremely furious.
We explain, have the Beckhams overplayed their hands this time?
Plus is swimming in the ocean a thing of the past for many Australians now.
But first look, in case you missed it, I was away last week and Claire Stevens upset a lot of people with some comments you made. Hi. They weren't political, they weren't outrageous. They were about sport.
I'm a shamed.
I people in my life are annoyed me, but most of all, more importantly, the out louders are annoyed me.
Look, I was I.
Go away for a week and sports correspondent Claire Stevens goes rogue. You were talking about the Knicks, the New York Knicks who've just won the championships. For the celebrity favorites, Da Da Da Da Da, and you were talking about the phenomena, the pop culture phenomena of that. And Claire said that, and I have to say that I found it a little strange. I love you, but I grew up in England, where football is a religion and people get very excited about it. We live in Australia, where
sport again big part of the cultural identity. But you said that sporting excitement was an American thing.
Okay, Firstly, you're only annoyed at me because I made fun of your coffee order, and there was also that. Secondly, I didn't word myself perfectly. What I meant is that when I've been at American sporting events, there is an earnestness that doesn't exist elsewhere, for example, and I think I may specifically be thinking of the national anthem. When Americans sing the national anthem at the beginning of a sporting matt they like cry, I.
Think you're doing are definitely digging.
The Australians don't do that. Our lover's sport is more fun and more lighthearted.
Okay, Well, those of us who decided that what you said with the Australians don't care about sport, and I know that's not what you said, but when have we ever left truth get in the way of a good story. I found it confusing, So did the eighteen thousand people who packed out Melbourne's Federation Square and an overflow venue yesterday afternoon to watch the first soccer whose game of the World Cup. Are you aware of what the World Cup is?
I am, and my timing in heimsha.
Because Australia is about to get one of its contagious excitements because the soccer is first game went well. This is where we all remember, basically that men play football too, because all the countries in the world are in America playing football.
I know.
I heard World Cup and I was like oh, and then I saw men and I was like, oh, anyway.
The soccer is won and it wasn't actually expected Turkya. They were playing in Turkya before. We're doing some shit talking and saying like and people said this a very average team. Da da da dah. The fact that soccer is one mean that everybody is going to be going absolutely nuts for this. Claire, learn the names Nestari Eron Kunda and Connor Metcalf. They scored the goals yesterday. You're going to need to know those to join in the fund. Do you have any official apologies you want to?
Where's your notes app?
I know I actually do need to post a notes ap apology, don't I Everyone did go nuts yesterday, didn't They did? And I went over to Jesse's house and her husband had all the children were crying because he had yelled so loudly that they thought he was angry. We were sharing videos within our family group chat of random family members just absolutely losing it. There were friends who were like, I don't know anything about football, but I'm at the pub with my with my child.
Who's who's holding Australian flat?
You know what?
Love?
We love a bandwagon? Oh yes, we're going to be soccer barnwagon from here till next Tuesday. The next soccer use game, not that anybody cares honestly, is at five am Saturday morning. We're playing America and of course the state of origin this Wednesday night. Nobody cares about that either.
Okay, I'm embarrassed, and as somebody who came as somebody who came from a rugby league family growing up, I hope my extended family weren't listening to that. Soak, I thought I'd change the topic to save myself. So in case you missed it. On Sunday evening, which is Monday morning here in Australia, President Donald Trump announced a peace agreement between the US and Iran. The deal with the
Islamic Republic of Iran is now complete. Congratulations to all, he wrote, I hereby fully authorized the toll free opening of the Strait of Homewoods.
I think he's just using here by the sound fancy.
Yeah, because then he said, and simultaneously here with authorize the immediate removal of the United States Naval blockade.
Imagine he's like a medieval court jester when he makes these pronouncements.
And it's like, mate, every other one of your bloody truth social post has typos in it, like it's not part of your brand. He then wrote, this great deal will bring peace and security to the whole region. Many presidents have tried to make peace with Iran and all have failed. Before me, the leaders of the region have for the first time found a president who can help
them achieve real peace now. In the lead up to the news, representatives of the Islamic Republic said that Trump had an unusual insistence that the deal would coincide with his eightieth birthday, and that's.
What I wondered if it was a present.
Yeah, He's like, oh, nothing like a deadline. For some reason, it was his eightieth birthday. He's also celebrating his adth by hosting a UFC event on the lawn of the White House. So those things who among us has not wished for that exactly. In response to the news, one Congressman Seth Moulton criticized the economic and human toll of the war, saying this it's a terrible deal. It's basically a surrender document from Donald Trump to the Supreme Leader
of Iran. I mean, one hundred billion dollars of tax payer money already put into this war, fourteen Americans dead, and we get a deal that just reopens a strait that was already opened before he started this stupid war.
How is that a win?
Amelia.
There's a lot we don't know about this peace agreement, not in the least because there's so much political spin attached, which you won't believe. But Trump, he gets very into the spin. What do we know about what this means?
Yeah, it's a good question. Well, Iran has confirmed a ceasefire, agreement. It's confirmed, specifically that there is an end to the military conflict on all fronts, including in Lebanon. Not as I said, Iran agreed to that. Israel may or may not have agreed to the end of fighting in Lebanon, and for that matter, Hesbla may or may not have agreed to the end of fighting in Lebanon. But that
is what the US and Iran agreed. The second thing that we know is that there is it does appear like the US blockade of the Strait has ended, because that's, by the way, why the strait wasn't open right now. It's because the US had blocked the strait. So that's worth noting.
Does that mean Amelia, I know, I don't know if you could answer this or not. Is petrol about to get cheap O again?
No, I don't think so, because we don't yet. So that brings me to the things that we don't know. And one of the things we don't know is whether or not I Ran is going to start charging a toll in the Strait of Hormootes, because one might say, why wouldn't they because they've realized now what leverage they
have over people. So we don't actually know what's going to happen with that, and we don't know what's happened with the nuclear program, which was his whole ostensible reason for starting the war.
Trump did say that it was a toll free opening of the strait. Oh well, Trump said, Trump says it.
That's kind of like, yeah, Trump doesn't own the Strait of Hormootes, so it doesn't really matter what Trump says about it. But I do think it's right that he wanted it done for his birthday.
Yeah, a piece of fit. You think it's been three weeks of escalating Gwyneth's crisis crises in fact, and look, I was away last week when the really big one hit, but my DMS took a smashing. I am associated with Gwyneth Paltrow and I would now like to be removed from this narrative.
Please, it is I would there needs to be a historical study about how Hollywayinwright became because you really do like when I see Gwyneth do something, I'm like, oh god, Holly, and last.
Week in particular, that was not good for me. Let me explain some of these things, because they're sort of silly, to surprising, to completely shocking, right, what sort of happened Week one was a regular gate am I saying sorry because here in Australia we just call that rocket. It's the green stuff I grow it in my garden. Flex Gwyneth is using rocket in a very upsetting way. We've got a little grab of her on the US Today Show talking to Savannah Guthrie about where she puts her arugular.
You want to avoid dairy. One trick that I do is I dice up arugula and I.
Put it in.
Really it sounds weird, but it kind of adds like a nice texture to it and it's delicious.
Now.
I like rocket. I eat it quite a lot. Salad, parmesan, tomatoes, yum.
Dairy substitute question mark doesn't make any sense. Some of my favorite comments in response to this were I replace my chicken with marshmallows, and sometimes when I want a salad, I make a margarita. And that's really where we're at. It's like, that's it's not I have to google is it?
There? Is?
Is rocket dairy? No?
No, it's really not. Even if you don't know much about that, it's really really not. Then things took a more serious and surprising turn. Gwenneth has a podcast called Goop Up. Yes, I listened to it.
Listen to this particular episode.
No, I was busy. I did not listen to this, but for reasons that I don't understand. She had a man on there called Trey stevens Now. He runs a military tech company which makes missiles and combat drones, and Gwyneth and Trey discussed, among other things, why Jesus would be cool with Trey selling weapons of war. This already made a lot of people angry. This was after a clip had surfaced of Gwyneth where she was talking about politics.
The bit that you might have seen that went quite viral was Gwyneth was talking about her politics, and she was basically saying that these days she's neither left nor right, and her husband's very progressive and he basically thinks she's a Republican, but she doesn't feel anything anymore. Gwyneth was talking about her own political positioning, and this is what she said.
I noticed with my own husband, who's the best person ever in the world. He's so progressive, Like he has such a sweet heart and he wants to like make sure everybody's looked after I'm pretty centrist and my husband thinks I'm a Republican, which I'm not a Republican. I mean, I don't feel anything right now, to be totally honest with you, I feel like I'm completely an independent.
She's so condescending to Brad.
Brad, Oh, he's such a good person.
That's what.
It's a very American thing to almost be.
Oh, Claire, be careful.
To be like, you're a do gooder, you know what I mean, Like, oh, you're such a do good like like, oh, he's such a good persons.
Think that a lot of people on the right like to love a people on the left is that they're just sort of unrealistic and just soppy.
Whereas Gwyneth in that interview talks a lot about how, you know, we've got darkness and light within us, and it's it's a battle for both.
And it's like a conversation to have with a missile dealer.
Yeah it's okay to make missiles because I feel kind of weird about.
It, think that that podcast was spun. Can't why would she have an arms dealer on her show, Like I shouldn't say armstealer, arms manufacturer?
Be really clear about the distinction. None of this makes any sense to me, Ami, because we're about to discuss the final Gwyneth controversy, and then we're really out tokay, as they say, right, But then the third Gwyneth controversy landed when she appeared in an ad for a luxury apartment complex called fifty one Park, which happens to be located just north of Tel Aviv in Israel. Deciding to advertise luxury apartments in Israel at this particular moment is
at the very least and interesting decision. The company involved also runs a commercial real estate company in the occupied West Bank, which is about thirty kilometers away from the apartment building Gwyneth is advertising, and in fact Gaza is only about eighty kilometers from fifty one Park, So the ad itself not going to play you. A bit of it shows gwyneths getting ready in the morning early as she would. As she does, she says, even her coffee needs coffee.
Yeah, it's really bad writing.
Then she's got really her fancy active. Weear on and she goes for a run through what appears to be Central Park, and it was apparently filmed in a closed set in New York. She was there two weeks ago, not that I track her whereabouts, so maybe even as recently as that, who knows. She runs through Central Park, then she comes back to this very fancy apartment block that is all very New York coded, with a dorman and all that kind of thing. And then as she
comes back out of it, someone asks her. She says, it's a reason why all great apartment buildings are built near parks. And someone says Central Park, and she says no, and then says the name of the development Israel. It is a strange ad in and of itself. And then finding out where this apartment block was, Claire, I'm gonna I'm gonna explore my position on Gwyneth, given that we are inextricably linked somehow. Now, but can you see any good reason for to have made these recent moves?
This ad like I've seen.
I saw the arugula thing, and then I missed the weapons manufacturer. And when I saw this, I thought it was AI. I thought it was I thought it was a fake because it's a very bad ad. It's a really bad because it's not a good quality ad. But the thing that just baffles me is so It was shot in New York, and she has a line where she says, there's a reason the world's most iconic buildings are by a park, fifty one park, And it's like, do we want to talk about what else this is?
Bye?
Like it's just so incredibly dystopian. People have said it's quite zone of interest, Like it's just it's giving a complete ignorance to what is going on in that region. And you just look at it and go, did you think about this for five minutes before you said yes?
And I see why they're saying it, But it is an ad for apartment buildings and not an op ed in the newspaper.
And I wonder if in doing.
This very sort of shoddily made ad, Gwyneth is kind of goading us because she knows this is going to be the response, And maybe she's trying to prove some point that like, oh, I can't even make an ad anymore.
I can't even make an ad.
I'm I'm not doing I'm not protesting anything, I'm not writing an op ed. I'm not manufacturing arms. I know.
But then when you tie it with the manufacturing arms guy, that was weird. Assuming that Gwyneth is not ignorant of what's going on in that region. There is only one explanation.
Who's not ignorant of it? The weapons manufacturer.
Yeah, exactly right. There is only really one explanation for her fronting this campaign, and that's that they paid her an enormous amount of money. Do we think, yes, they?
I mean they must have been surely an advertise something.
Well, this is what it brings us to. Right, So, assuming that Gwyneth Paltrow was offered an obscene amount of money to front this apartment block, how and why did she possibly think that this was a good idea for her brand.
I think it's feature, not bug for her. I think some people would look at this and see it as the next step in Gwyneth being really savvy about which way the wind is blowing. And we are seeing a right wood turn in culture at the moment. The rich and the powerful are riching and powerful. Ng Elon Musk just this weekend became the world's first trillionaire, according to Fortune magazine, And rather than look on that as a kind of like sign of the decay of humanity.
A lot of people were super happy about it.
In fact, it was individual investors who put their own money into this that led to Elon Musk becoming the world's first trillionaire.
So I just think we're in a moment.
Where liberal doogle is seen as sort of passe, unrealistic, and it's certainly not where the money and the power is.
So Gwyneth is famous for riding controversies, right she If you ever have listened to the Goop podcast, maybe not the one with the arms Deeeler, but any other, you'll actually here at the beginning of quote from Oprah, famous quote from Oprah right where she says, when you are pioneering anything or introducing new ideas to the culture, you get criticized. And then Gwyneth goes, you do, I wouldn't know anything about that, and they have a little chuckle,
and I guess the idea is in. Gwyneth has said this lots of times that she believes, you know, the whole jade egg of it all, the vagina jade egg, the vagina steaming thing, those kind of controversies that she has weathered, that she has used those for publicity for Goop to kind of she now says, oh, well, I was just ahead of my time. Which is interesting to your point just then, Amelia about whether she's reading the
ruins on that. But this feels different because if you now go to any of Gwyneth's posts, because as I say, she didn't post this, And there was a time, once upon a time when famous Hollywood people would go to all kinds of corners of the world and make ads for questionable things in the sort of assumption that no one who matters in inverted commas is ever going to see this ad. But those days are gone, and Gwyneth knows that, right. But if you go to Gwinnisfeed or
Goop's feed, this ad is nowhere to be seen. But every comment on all her other things, so she's in New York to promote goop Eats or whatever it's called, Goop Kitchen, every comment is about this, and they are vehemently saying, you know, calling her names, as I alluded to in the intro, like it has overtaken her brand for a moment, and putting aside the actual ethics of I mean, she's the one who says my husband is the best person in the world and he's really progressive,
putting aside. I know, it's very hard to do that, putting aside the ethics of whether or not you should do this. Isn't this just a stupid idea for someone who's trying to sell us salads?
You mean cheese?
Oh? Yes, that's right.
She said before in a Harvard Business School lecture that basically, like part of her strategy is to have these viral uproars and then monetize those eyeballs, and in a twenty eighteen New York Times profile, the author wrote, Goop has learnt to do a special kind of dark art to coral the vitriol of the internet and the ever present shall we call it cultural ambivalence about Gwyneth Paltrow herself
and turn them into cash. The thing I'm interested in here is, I mean, it's so the anger is obviously just so predictable what people are going to say. And there are countless op eds, and there are countless TikTok analyses of this ad, and I mean just really interesting points about having a luxury apartment. Bloh, where the level of luxury there's a Pilates pool. I'm like, I didn't,
I had to google what a Pilartes's pool was. The level of luxury next to like, not far from where one point seven million people are starving and sick and it's horrific and homeless and homeless, and for her to not see that contrast is so bizarre. But then at the same time it tracks with the with the brand of kind of unapologetic privilege. And I wonder if because she is blonde and because she is beautiful, she is immune from people seeing her as dangerous.
Do you know what I mean?
I think the opposite in a way. I because as somebody who and I want to be clear about something here. I often say this on the show, and I know not everybody agrees or can get a handle on it. I am really interested in lots of people who I disagree with, right, so I don't when is one of those public figures, pop culture figures who fascinates me. It doesn't necessarily mean I love her, that I like her, that I endorse her, but she's someone I can't look
away from. And I don't think you have to agree with everybody's politics in order to, you know, find them interesting. But the thing about this is this shows exactly that Gwynneth is exactly who everybody said she was. Do you know what I mean the people who have always thought she's just a blonde, privileged, dangerous person. Perhaps that people have been saying that about Gwyneth for a very long time, and people like me go, oh but Jade Eggs lol.
You know, but this, this level of tone deafness, confirms all of those that.
You said before. Does she not see the contrast? You just use the word tone deaf. I don't think that either of those is right, because I think that that implies that like she's made a mistake or an error. But she is not making an error or a mistake.
She is not just failing to see the contrast or failing to understand this is torn to She wants to do this and the reason why she wants to do it is because what she's always been best at is reading the room, and the room right now loves money and power above all else.
And by room, I guess I mean consumers.
I guess I mean American consumers, if I'm going to drill down on it more specifically.
And she has been turning for it, so Hollywood generally, I mean, certainly gets criticism from President Trump for this was always generally considered to be smaller liberal. You know and progressive and creative. The creative community is all assumed, and Gwyneth has been positioning herself away from that for
quite a long time. I've listened to interviews with her where she's talked about how fascinated she is by billionaires and founders and tech people and all that stuff, and that she clearly sees herself moving in those circles now, Amelia,
So you're absolutely right. Also, people like me who once were like, oh, I find her interesting whatever, now going oh, I don't think So that's not her concern because she knows, to Amelia's point, that the people who are commenting on Instagram do not really have any power, but the people who are building luxury apartment blocks wherever the hell they want,
all over the world do. And interestingly, the the agency who put this ad together put a note on LinkedIn saying to bring this architectural masterpiece to the Israeli audience, because that tells you this ad is for an Israeli audience, not for the world. We needed a figure who effortlessly embodied international elegance, a premium lifestyle, an uncompromising quality, enter Academy Award, Emmy and Golden Globe winner Gwyneth Poultra.
I think you could also be for Americans, by the way, in addition to Israelis. And I think that there's a reason why they're trying to conflate New York and tell Aviva that ad. But I think that she's not just similar to Anana wind Tour in that, you know, Anna Winter back in the day said I'm never going to put Kim kardashi In on the cover of Vogue, and then the winds changed and everyone became obsessed with Kim Kardashian.
She puts her on the cover of Vogue, and more recently, Lauren Sanchez Bezos has been on the cover of Vogue and her wedding was covered extensively.
These people who.
Who kind of set and defined the culture, this is what they do. I mean, I'm not I'm not casting a judgment on it either way. I'm just saying that this is what they're good at, is kind of drawing out what's being left unsaid and making it making it in.
I think the cultural point that we're at right now, where people love to criticize, cancel culture, there's power in like the backlash to the backlash. Yeah, so the fact that she's done this ad everybody who you know knows what's going on in that region says, Gwyneth, what the fuck? And then people say, oh, it's just all the work people. She can't even do an age, can't even say that strategy.
It's like, that's that's part of the that's part of the market.
Surely though, there's an element here. Then She's just launched Groop Kitchen in the New York We talked about it the other week because I said I would love to eat one of those salads, and one of our friends who lives and works in New York's had me a message confirming they were, in fact delicious. Surely this does hurt that kind of market New York hipsters who are excited about eating Goop Kitchen. Me as a basic, a basic person, I'm now like, no, I don't know about
the salads. Now, Gwynn, I think this is the armstealer on the podcast really pushed me.
I won't have you malign the second trunk Trump administration is so different to the first in terms of how the US has kind of metabolized it.
Like the first was the pussy.
Hats and the outrage and Melanie as I don't care, do you coat? And that you know every scandal would would bring it a predictable outrage and controversy with it. But this administration, people are tired. I think a lot of Americans have tuned out of politics altogether, and I think they see Gwyneth Israel controversy and they think, I just want my rocket salad.
After the break. Is swimming in the open ocean going to be a thing of the past for Australians. Just after eleven am on Saturday morning, a thirty five year old woman was bitten by a shark while swimming about thirty meters from the shore at Sydney's popular Cuji Beach. Witnesses say the shark was three to four meters, with experts suspecting that it was a great white, which is incredibly rare in the area. The woman was airlifted to
hospital and is currently in critical condition. It follows a spate of shark bites earlier this year, including a two day period in January where there were four reported shark encounters on Australia's East coast, including the fatality of a twelve year old boy in Sydney Harbor. But at the
end of that week. The message to the public was very much about the conditions of the water, so we were told there were heavy rains in the previous days that contributes to dirtier, murkier water, as well as sewerage which attracts baitfish and ultimately sharks. That plus the fact that it was summer, the warm water temperature that created ideal conditions for the bull sharks believed to be responsible for those attacks. But this attack on Saturday was unique
and different. It was clear water, it was winter, it was a great white. In the last month alone, a thirty five year old man died while spearfishing near Albany in Western Australia, a Perth father died at Rotnest Island, and a thirty nine year old spearfisher died south of Cans.
Australia has the second highest number of recorded shark incidents globally, averaging twenty two bites per year, and as Julia Baird wrote for the ABC back in January, the odds have been killed by a shark in Australia is about one in eight million, and yet it feels a lot more likely right now. Predictably, there are lots of conversations about
what's going to happen next. This is just such a shocking story and so seemingly random and out of the blue that there are calls for culs even though we know that there's no clear evidence that they work and that Great whites are endangered. But there have been some interesting suggestions from academic and author Chris peppin nef So he actually submitted an op ed to a big paper he said, didn't specify which one, with some suggestions of what he thinks needs to happen it and it got rejected.
And he also had some suggestions for Mossman City Council after those January attacks, and they were also dismissed. So a couple of his suggestions are temp prairie enclosures, so when people go to the beach, particularly something like Nippers, that there would be an enclosure where people get to swim safely. He also said basically for the rest of twenty twenty six that people should know if they're swimming in the open water, they're swimming at.
Their own risk.
And then he had some interesting ideas about shark deterrent technology. Holly, you're a beach person used to live at Kuji. How has this story changed your idea of getting in the ocean.
Look, I think, I mean, I don't want to be like, oh, we've swim there all the time, but we obviously have swum there all the time, and so it does feel close to home and it's so traumatic. I just one of the things about shark attacks we all know this is they strike a very deep cord in people. It's a very very primal fear. So although the statistics, as you mentioned, Claire, the likelihood of it happening to you
is small. It's such a traumatic event, and it's not only traumatic for the person involved, but for everybody who witnessed it, for the brave people who are first responders. For like, it's a very deep fear for very obvious reasons. I know that the Culgi community is obviously really really rattled, that there is a lot of support for people who
were there that day. The thing that I have found really interesting in the changing conversation around sharks is that we've got to move on from and I think that we are moving on from. You either kill them or you don't kill you know, like, you either kill all the sharks, make the ocean safe or it's just have at it. I think that these discussions about getting more sharks smart in the way that some parts of Australia, for example, are croc smart or all of these is
really interesting and important. What pepin Nef said that was interesting. So if you know Culdie, well, they used to once upon a time in the twenties and thirties, they had a shark net, so they had a peer that went out and then there was a shark enclosure, and lots of harbor beaches still have shark enclosures. And I think that the pier was damaged by a storm back in the day and the shark the enclosure is gone. And obviously now we have nets, but the debts come up
in April. They are also imperfect. They also catch a lot of other animals that aren't the target of the debts, so they're not a perfect solution. It feels like the idea of returning to enclosures, and he was talking about some that are temporary. You can roll them out and pull them back in again again. They won't be perfect, but that they will give some semblance of safety is
a smart one. I know that western Australia has a government scheme where surfers and fishermen and swimmers who buy shark deterrent technology can get it rebated by the government. Apparently that's really popular and I think that this awareness is what we have to move to because although the statistics are small, there is no argument that it is that these shark incidents are increasing. Some people don't like them being called shark attacks because it suggests that then
it says suggest shark was attacking. Yeah, and they say shark bites, but that they are increasing and there are lots of factors to that. Lots of people talk about it. Is it rising water temperature, is it overfishing, is it a whole lot of different things. Whatever it is, they are increasing, not just in Sydney but all over Australia and it feels like a conversation that needs to be had, This idea of at your own risk. I don't know, Amelia. In that video he says that this is America's approach
generally speaking. Is that did you know?
I don't quite know what he meant by that, but I do think that that point he makes that Australians have to reevaluate their relationship with the water and with this national pastime really is a confronting one, and I think it goes beyond shark awareness.
I think, as you allude to in the intro.
Claire, we thought we had a grasp on shark awareness in January, we check that box. Okay, no brackish water, don't go in after it's been raining, Maybe don't do it at dusk or at dawn where shark activity is higher, and just be aware that they are. There are greater numbers of them now that the water is warming due to in all likelihood climate change. So we thought, okay, we've got it now, that's how we be shark that's
how we can be shark aware. But as you pointed out, this particular bite and why it's been so shocking is it doesn't seem to meet those criteria. It was colder water a different shark now, but a colder water, clear water, and not at dawn or dusk. So what I think is confronting for Australians is the idea that for many of us, going for a swim is kind of a it feels like a national entitlement. It just feels like what we do and we shouldn't have to think too
hard about it. And it's our birthright. I guess that's the word I need to use for it. It is so intertwined with our national identity for so many Australians. We are a very urbanized society and most of us do hug the coast in some way. So I think the idea that we have to look at this carefree national birth right is something that we now have to figure out how to coexist with other creatures that also
enjoy the water. That just like gets to the heart of what many people think it means to be Australian.
I get why that's confronting. As sensible as it is.
It's interesting because down where I live on the South Coast, big sharks, cold water, et cetera. You know, you're kind of aware of that, but they've just installed a shark bite kit at our beach and I've never seen that before.
I think they've done that at I think after January they did that at a lot of a lot of maybe even all.
Yeah, so they're being rolled out across New South Wales at least. I'm sure the States have something similar. And when you first see that, it's a little bit jarring, you're like, because it's basically a trauma kit and it's attached to a pole near the beach in the same way that if you're in var North Queensland there's often a jellyfish station. Obviously there's a practical application to that, but it's also just this push towards making us all a bit more aware.
Yeah, but also changing our relationship to the water. I think that's what Chris is calling for, Chris Peppinneff, and I think that's probably why the major newspaper turned him down, because we're not ready.
To hear that.
But what's scary is that at the same time, this is so so so unlikely and so uncommon, and sometimes I even in January, I remember, like the information is so important about how the oceans work and what kind of attracts sharks and all of that. But I do worry that sometimes when these conversations come.
Up, that it.
Erases the randomness of it, like the fact that this woman did nothing wrong, she didn't do anything irresponsible, she did not like and it's just a thing that can happen, Buddy, is still incredibly, incredibly, incredibly unlikely, and so that idea of changing our relationship with the ocean. I'm like, I don't know if that's if that's fully necessary.
But that's what's interesting about this debate, isn't It is like, I agree with you, but I feel like I also feel like we shouldn't kid ourselves. If when I first moved to Australia from England, I thought that every beach was full of sharks, right, was that was the perception I had? I was like, who would ever go swimming in Australia? Like we all know that's where the great
Whites live? Like we all know that. And then obviously I've lived here for thirty years, put near the coast nearly all of that time, and you get very, oh, well, it doesn't happen. And it used to be all the time in a city like Sydney, and I know it's different in different places, but people would say there hasn't be an attack in Sydney, for you can't say that anymore.
Like it is happening with increased frequency, without question. And I think that that push and pull between not wanting to change something fundamentally that's about us, and also being aware that the change circumstances of our world have increased a risk is a fair enough conversation to have. Of course,
it doesn't mean that anybody was doing anything wrong. I mean, there'll be a lot of conversations already are about in this such because for people who aren't familiar with Sydney's beaches, Couldie is a very, generally speaking, a very flat, very calm beach. It's a bay, and the water that day, as you've said, was crystal clear. The footage of this alleged to be this shark. Afterwards you kind of going,
how did nobody do that thing coming? But of course it's also winter and the beaches aren't as patrolled as theys are, and there'll be lots of questions about that. But I think that it's kind of we can't kid ourselves that what's happening isn't happening, do you know what I mean?
But for example, probably what we should be more scared of, more aware of, is getting caught in a rip for example, Like that's a lot more common. But it's interesting that the way that our brains were the idea of being bitten by a shark is just so terrifying, and so it just really gets you that you then think like the cost of that is so huge that we kind of amplify the probability.
I think it is changing to Holly's point, like, I agree, but things are changing and the conception you have is from a prior time. The other thing I'd say is rips. At least in New South Wales schools, kids get taught about rips in YU one in classrooms and we haven't been in denial about the rip dangers, and of course that still means that it's an ever present danger that we have to be aware of. But kids, we're doing a pretty good job I think of educating kids about rips.
It's interesting about risk evaluation too, is that I mean, anyone who spends any time on the coast in Australia knows that the shark alarm can go off and the surface will stay. So I mean, I know that's a massive generalization and I'm not criticizing, but what I'm saying is people have their own risk assessments, right, and people who are very familiar with the water and spend a lot of time in it are sort of more confident
and aware of certain things. And I wonder if that will continue to be the case but for those of us who are not water babies as such, like who maybe need a little more handholding in what risks are like. I think enclosures, I think ocean pools are going to be very very busy.
Yes, except Holly, I hate to say it. At my local beach in the shark free enclosure, there was a shark recently cited.
Things are changing.
At the time we're recording this, we've just found out that the woman who was bitten by the shark at Cujie on Saturday is Leah Stewart. She's thirty five, she's from Cougie, She's a passionate swimmer, she's got a little child, and she's in hospital. At the time we're recording this, she's still in a critical but stable condition, and I know that we're not alone in sending all our love and support to her and her family as we're discussing this terrible.
Incident after the break. Have the Beckhams overplayed their hand this time? I'm bringing some scarriless silliness because we had to have Holly talk about Gwyneth. But another very important character in the Holy Universe had a big weekend. It happened because Sir David was being honored with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame and Lady.
Vicky was there. She was looking lovely in a kind of midnight blue dress, would you describe it that way.
Or at least ten pm blue ten pm blue, And she was very funny and adorable in her speech.
Let's hear a little bit of what she said.
Growing up in England, the Hollywood Walk of Fame was one of those iconic things that you only saw in films, a way of immortalizing people who had succeeded in their fields and truly left their mark. So naturally, I assumed I was coming here today to receive my star for my part in that iconic cult classic Spice Wild, the movie.
She's very funny, Vicky, she Lady VICKI. And of course Tom Cruise was there. Of course, I mean I was a little bit surprised, but I guess he got the Vicams in the Top Divorce.
Yeah, he and Beckham are bessies. And during the tomcat era, and that's when David and Victoria lived in La because David was playing for La Galaxy. The four of them would hang out all the time with Eva Longoria as well and they were always out. Katie and Vicki were always out shopping, and Tom and David were always hanging out at football games and stuff. And clearly Katie was not there on Saturday, but Tom was, and he looked very coase.
We really drawn as to who I would rather get in that divorce, because Katie's my star I like on but Tom is the last great movie star, so I don't know.
It's a tough one.
She might have good gossip like behind it, you know what I mean, unless he.
Probably like doesn't drink margaritas.
I feel like.
I mean, I know her NDA probably covers post margarita conversations, but I would love to try to get around it anyway.
So David got his star.
That was lovely, But what happened afterwards is what got tongues wagging. Brooklyn has a house in La I refer to the Beckham Son and not the borough of New York.
Brooklyn has a house in la He.
Also has one in Miami, obviously, but he has this sixteen million dollar mansion in this ultra exclusive Truesdale Estates neighborhood of Beverly Hills. So just after the ceremony, it's still in her lovely pink slip dress. Fourteen year old Harper Becks pops over to his house to well, it's a bit unclear what to do. She wanted to see him? I guess maybe deliver a handwritten note, pick up a mascara, perhaps that she left there a year ago.
We don't quite know.
But what is clear is that the whole thing was caught on camera and then run in page six. So Brooklyn, who was not at home but was instead at one of his other mansions, he was reached out to for comment about his sister's visit, and his rep said that photographers were in place as the letter was hand delivered, says it all this was choreographed for the cameras. I am the emoji with its face in its hands right now. How could Victoria think this was a good idea? And
Harper is fourteen years old? Holly, am I missing something?
So the reason we know this, as Amelia says, is that the paparazzi images of it have been splashed across the internet. And we always say we don't do as Papa actually imagery, but there it has become part of the story because Brooklyn is saying that was not an accident. That's what he's saying. And what is kind of clear in the Beckham universe is that Harper is moving into main character position.
Right.
We've know she's got the skincare line coming up with that's been discussed. She was very prominent obviously at this she's I mean, for a start, if it was staged, that's kind of terrible.
Are you seriously still saying if like that was staged?
Well, do you think so definitely? Do you think one hundred percent? Or do you think so. One of the way the book, the way that Beckham's will will present this side, and they won't say anything publicly, but there will be leaks through their reps, is that Harper desperately misses her brother. This is the idea, This is the narrative, right, Harper was very tight with Brooklyn, as she is with her other two brothers who were at the Walk of Fame, and that she just wanted to reach out to him.
There are two signs to me that it was staged. The first is that she was wearing, as I mentioned earlier, the same pink slip dress that she wore at the Walk of Fame event, and the Beckhams know the power of dress. If she really wanted to just go there and be surreptitious, she might have changed into something less formal. But she wanted to be. She wanted everyone to say that's Harper Beckham because I just saw her half an hour ago at that event where the world's cameras ran, and.
This poor girl from who lives in England is in LA for such a short time and she's using that opportunity to go to her brothers.
The second, the second thing that tells me its stage. No one in Los Angeles has to walk anywhere.
No one.
The fact that we saw her walking down the street. There are no footpaths in Los Angeles because it pulled, not walk. So the fact that we saw her walking down a street in Los Angeles seems that she wanted to be.
She was dropped off by a car, but not close enough to the gate that she didn't have to walk. That is interesting, Claire, is this how we do family? But like, is there a world where she's texting Brooklyn, She's like, I really want to come by and see you and Nicola are you home? Crickets? Because they're not talking, so she's just like I'm gonna go pop.
In well what I thought was interesting. And again why the kind of the only reason the paparazziiness of it all has has become relevant.
Is because those photos were released.
And then Brooklyn shared to his Instagram story a photo of him in New York and he tagged the location like the fact that he was in New York going for a run. And so his point, without saying it, was like, I'm not even there. They knew I was, They knew I wasn't there. And this does add a lot of credibility to Brooklyn's long running argument that everything his family does is a performance and that it's not about they. They don't care about him the human. They
care about the image of the Beckham family. And I think your theory, Holly, that Harper is kind of meant to be emerging as the new main character of this family is very true because the other the two brothers have Romeo and Romeo and Cruse and I think it's Cruise in particular, have been a bit like just taking a piss out of Brooklyn.
They have, They've been being a bit harsh about it.
Yes, they've been kind of posting.
Just and Cruises a rockstar now side.
Yeah, he's a bit cool for Brookie. But I just think this was so orchestrated and that it really really makes it. I think this looks so bad for the Beckham I've heard that.
I've seen a lot of critiques saying that that they overreached that Vicky because everyone always assumes that it's Victoria who's the mastermind of this, because of course they do, because she's a woman and she's a mother, and why wouldn't she be But it could be David for all we know. Look, if it was orchestrated, I want more. If it was orchestrated, I want Victoria crying at the gates of the mansion. I want her holding on to the rails of the gate and shaking them and being like.
Brooklyn, why won't you come to our own walk of frame?
Thing like maybe harpers to live in her own life. Maybe she's making her own rules. Maybe she's like mom and dad. I don't care what you say. I'm going to see Brooklyn. He needs to know.
And she just felt like taking a walk down a street.
In whichever way this rolls out, it's not good for them because everyone was kind of it was dying down. You know, it was five months since Brooklyn Beckham made that famous and earth shattering Instagram series of posts about how he felt about his family, including the allegation, of course, that Victoria Beckham danced on him at his wedding party. That was five months ago. We've had a documentary since then. Beckham's got his Walk of Fame?
But what is he? An actor? Can we just pause on that? Why does he have?
Isn't that ba actually great point? I meant to challenge, does David Beckham have a star online?
I think probably because of his documentary?
Well, you also buy those stars for yourself.
So I guess they figured they were going to have this big weekend in LA and they couldn't not address the issue.
Is that it?
I would say, I'm kind of with Victoria that she's more deserving.
I actually think.
Like, sorry, put all the Brooklyn stuff aside. She was this WHTS girl.
She should be on that.
Walk you in Sport right now? Is this some moment for a heart take from you?
Pick a ball?
I feel like we're going to see it. It's really funny how any time an English person is in LA they're always like, oh did Prince Harry go one of the likes. It's like William loves Beckham. Harry didn't go to the Walk of Fame. The football and World Cup is on, but Harry was in New York. You know he was in San Antonio watching the basketball. Okay, I he wasn't in the front row. People have been writing about that too. Look, BRIT's in America having a hard time.
But use some sunscreen. That's all I have to say. I want to give that Sonny out there.
I want to give poor old Harper the benefits of doubt.
I will say, I do think.
She's only fourteen.
Why it's calling She is only fourteen, and your parents still advise you, at the very least when you're fourteen, And at the very least someone didn't say to her, if indeed this was all on her own initiative, you know what?
Love Maybe not?
Yeah, maybe let's do something a bit more low key.
I will say.
The sibling estrangement breaks my heart. Like parent estrangement with parents is obviously always sad, but siblings. I just think, oh, Brookie.
Maybe Brooklyn should open the bloody gate to his Maybe he should be in LA and he should open the gate to his sister.
I think he needs to call Harper out loud.
Is that is all we have time for on today's show. Please remember that we have subscriber episodes twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Plus of course, subscribers get access to exclusive stories online and to our exercise app Move, including Move walk just for half a back
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