Two Icons. One Logie. Internet Beef.

You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's what women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the twenty fourth of July. I'm Holly Wayne right, I'm brat.

I'm not brat. You can't you're not allowed. I read you're not allowed to self identify. Someone else has to call you back. Now you've ruined it. That is the sound of gen Z's everywhere being like, oh cool. She's ruined a whole movement and probably undermined Kamala Harris's campaign.

Take it back.

I'm me Friedman and I'm Jesse Stevens and I have a very exciting announcement, which is, I don't know if you too know this, you're pregnant. No stop it. But there's actually a subscriber episode on that very topic. People there, No, this is about, you know, move our exercise app. If you're a Mummy subscriber you get unlimited access. There is a new collection. It's called the Lazy Girl Collection, fully

Want to move. I was feeling this way today.

It wasn't feeling very well, and.

I didn't really want to go from a usual run, but I wanted to do something because I wanted to move my body. I knew I was going to work and I was just going to be sitting a lot. So this is exactly what I mean.

Yeah, so there's six of them. It's your whole week because you need a preak obviously, come exercising every day. But it's also good if you've just been injured. You know, when you've got misery and then you try and come back to it, and all the exercises are like, here's forty five minutes of jumping. Yeah, this is just a knees back in nice. So we have a discount code

On Today's show, why is Irene from Home and Away beefing with a twenty year old about the gold LOGI? What is Tim Coconut? Who's in the k hive? And why is the vice president of the USA being called brat? Decoding the very TikTok campaign kickoff of Kamala Harris and the teacher who staged a rebellion over birthday party invitations are the expectations we're putting on educators. Just a bit drunk, but first mea Friedman.

In case you missed it, the Matildas do not like their Olympic uniforms.

Stuff not happy.

Mackenzie Arnold and Alana Kennedy posted a TikTok that has gone viral revealing the outfits that they will wear to represent Australia.

I don't know if this is real. I think I saw them and in fact, when it's part of the whole outfit with the blazer, it doesn't look bad.

It looks I guess this isn't what they're going to play in it. Yeah, so I know that podcast is not a visual medium, but we'll post footage on our socials. But a strappy green and gold dress with a pleated skirt. It kind of looks like a leotard with vignette of yellow to green.

I wore a kilt as part of my school uniform, my current quarter kilt. That's what this is giving me. It's a three quarter kils.

It's a bit in that ball dressy but with spaghettish.

Yeah. Some of the suggestions have been that it looks like they might be going to the beach or their year ten formal. Others have said, as you did, Jesse, it's giving Australian primary school sports uniforms from the ninety Yeah, yeah, yeah the plate. Some say it's giving family photos and your mum's picked everyone matching outfits. And then someone said, I honestly could not guess the sport based on this uniform. My best guess is a combination of swimming, jazzus size and tennis.

My Matulder's badwagon is revving as who's getting on, Who's coming? I'll get on the only problem is because we're all excited about the Olympics, freakin' Europe because the first Matilda's game is on Friday, but it's at three a m. What if we get the first Matilda's game is against Germany. It's at three am on Friday morning. It's sort of before the big official kickoff of the Olympics. I'm more excited about the Matilda than anything else. But am I really getting up at three ams?

You know what?

It's good for our out loud as who are shift workers or insomniacs, or.

Have perry yes, or have babies.

Yes.

I'm excited for the swimming. I like the gymnastics, light, the diving, I like all of it. But I like just turning on the TV and I don't know what I'm gonna watch and I end up, you know, seeing some Polish person do the splits. That's what I enjoy doing. But I have been deep on TikTok in the Olympic village, our Olympic TikTok before the Olympics have started. I've been living in the Olympic village. So here's what I know. Firstly, they're allowed to post as much content as they like.

Isn't that interesting.

So I think in other years there's been like a no social media policy, and now I think that it's become so endemic to people's identity, and it's also their hobbies. Like making TikTok content is a good sort of distraction in a positive way.

Yeah, it's fabulous. They're all going viral. It's very kind of basic. The room like a hostel, like a bit like a hostel. The beds are made, the base is cardboard, and the actual mattress is like foam. And I'm really concerned because I just don't see how you're a few. I think Tilly Kerns, who's an Australian Olympian, said, you know, she's not sleeping very well. And I'm worried about performing.

Some of these tiktoks and you can turn they're like if you think about the kind of cushion that you put on an outdoor chair, like really thin. But then there's a firm side and a soft side. And I was watching some of the Matilna's saying they're not sleeping and they went, oh, we'll turn it over to the soft side.

And they went, oh, that was the soft.

Now was the soft side? I tell us they're good bed They need good beds because they need their rest. I remember when I was growing up, So I was in year four when the Sydney Olympics happened and we needed bunk beds two says twins, and we bought themselves in hand from the Olympic village.

Were who slept in your bed? Do you think?

Yes?

I think?

Is that what?

It was?

So long? Yeah?

Yeah, so they were a little bit long, but you could also get which is the case. He could get extenders, which some of the Olympians do need they at all because they're reach to the basketball.

Your parents could have just bought one bed and you could have slept end to end exactly right.

Yeah, I remember them so rividly. Australia's biggest TV personalities are fighting over a gold LOGI and when I mentioned this story this morning, I need you to know that Holly frantically rubbed her hands together. She started bouncing on the shop. She started just like flapping her arms around. She was like, tell me more salivating. She physically leaned in and I've never seen her more animated about a story. Why do you think it's number one on our rundown today?

Exactly.

I was like, really it must be First, she started panting, nothing is more important? When I informed her that the Robert Irwin and the Lynn McGranger. I'm going to use the word feud because it excites Holly. Allow me to explain who she again.

It pushes a button for me from my old tabloid day. I'm feud shock miracle baby.

I'm just like, is just like all right. Lynn McGranger is of course home and away fame. She has been by.

She might be an out loud because Adau is and they're good mates. They are good mates anyway, Hi, Iilen, if you're listening.

There are no villains in this story.

Up for the Gold LOGI I'm team Irene. Just can I be clear before we start?

Okay, Well, this year we've got Larry Emder, We've got Julia Morris. These are the people who are up for the Gold log Sonya Krueger, Tony Armstrong, Andy Lee, Robert Erwin and Asha Ketty. Larry Emder. We love Larry. He posted about his nomination and Lynn McGranger saw it. She thought I leave a little comment and she I'm sorry, but old mate Irwin has been on Telly for a bloody minute. No disrespect intended.

Old mate.

That's what I said when I heard that, exactly what you said.

So sorry.

Is Lynn mcgrange nominated for I thought she was nominated.

She was supporting her friend Larry. Oh, I see so, Larry replied, are you starting an Internet future? Lynn? Which I love you, mom, starting on face exactly. I'm just don't care, Lynn replied, could be, honey, So she just put some little Lynn. Yeah, she's just there for the tea. That's when Julia Morris Robert Erwin's co host from I'm a Celebrity and also rival for the Gold LOGI, yeah, she got involved. She's having none of it, she said.

I'd like to see Asher enter the chat.

Where's can you imagine?

She's not even posing for the group photo. She's busy on sets being brilliant.

Now, it's be clear important to note, and you might have missed this detail, but Larry did speak to a celebrity psychic on air, and the celebrity psychic predicted that there will be no gold for him.

Oh I did How was his poker face?

He took it. He took it really well, and he said I have heard that, oh Larry. Now, I love some awards beef because everyone pretends I don't care, but everyone really cares. And there has been some commentary about twenty year old Robert Erwin's nomination. Maya you think Lynn has a point?

I do, I really do.

Look, I'm sure that Robert is a lovely young man, and I'm sure maybe he will have a big future in television, but he has not earned.

Oh do you even know what the criteria is for gold?

Logo? I can't work.

No, I've got it. I looked it up. Because that's my job is to look it up. The Gold Logi is an award for the most popular personality on Australian television. Do you know how many Instagram followers Robert Owen has six million?

Are we basing it on Instagram?

I just think it's a data point.

It is a data point.

What's her beef with Robert?

I don't have a beef with him. I think his time will come. I just don't think he's worthy yet. It hasn't earned his stripe.

It's not a lifetime Achievement award.

It is a little bit. It's kind of iconic.

This is the thing is that what does the Gold Logi mean? And the thing that's really interesting about the logis is in Australia, we half think the logis is a joke and half get really indignant in any way. Right, So we spend a lot of the time like sort of leaning into a cultural cringe about the logos. Oh, the dresses, it's not like America. How embarrassing, blah blah, and then half just like, how dare they outrageous?

So do you think'ski me?

Gold? Definitely?

My thing about Robert Erwin?

Right not?

And Ley did you know that Robert Irwin won LOGI eleven years ago. He's actually won a Logi Award before.

How was he even born that long time?

He was on a TV series with his mum and sister and he was nominated for most Popular New Male Talent. That man has been on television for twenty years. And I think that he might win the Gold.

So don't know. I want to win the Gold.

Oh, I want She's my top.

Here's the thing. Does Ashley's iconic want to win it before? She has won it before? And the thing is is I remember because I worked at TV week for a while one hundred years ago and Logis was a big deal then. The people who were always winning Gold in those days were Lisa McCune and Rove.

He won it like three times, yep.

And it was that era. And so really it reflects as you've said, that's the criteria says this exactly. It reflects a moment. It reflects a moment in time. And who is everybody looking at on TV right now?

Now?

Obviously in that time TV has changed so much. Yeah, so fragmented. Everybody isn't really looking at anybody. Everybody is looking in all kinds of different directions. So it does come down to things like Instagram followers. And the thing about Robert Irwin is he maybe twenty, but he definitely has riz. He definitely has charisma, enthusiasm, he leans in he wants.

But my question about Instagram followers in the case of Robert Irwin, I don't think his Instagram followers are a result of his TV. I think his TV is a result of his Instagram followers. Yes, so I don't think the people who are following him on Instagram have probably ever even seen him on TV. And my other view would be, if someone has to win from that show I'm a Celebrity, Get Me out of Here, which I think is a great show, I would prefer it to be Julia Morris, who I don't think has ever won.

And she's said yes, but I think that a war was like, we've got this sense and she needs to be fair. Yes, And it's not really how awards work.

I think by fair people mean the person I want to win.

Yes, that would be fair exactly, But I would if I was Robert Irwin. I was saying this and he's been so gracious because of course he is, but I would be thinking I don't think the average Australian quite knows how prolific Robert Irwin is. That he's been doing shows on the Discovery Channel. He was on Jimmy Fallon in Australia. He has done more television show.

I realize that I don't think people do.

So they think that he's just one. I'm a celebrity for five minutes. Yes, there's a reason why he is genuinely very talented and why he's so good at what.

Is he good on that show? I haven't watched him.

Yeah, he's brilliant and he's controversy free.

Why is he so so far? He's only twenty. There's plenty of time for his controversies to unfold. Not that I wish him ill. The dynamic lake between him and Julia.

Fantastic and Julia. I mean, Julia has done it and she's industry pro. But he's very likable, he's very charismatic, He's very good.

I have a different Logi's adjacent issue. I need to address are you too going? Because Strife TV show based on MEA's memoir that you both were me as ep of your producer of you wrote an episode, et cetera. Jesse, are you going? And my adjacent question to that, obviously is what are you wearring? But my other question is I was just talking about how people like to diss

I didn't even consider it being I forgot about the logo.

I really thought, yeah, I thought of that just sort of came around and then I heard we'd been nominated.

I was pretty happy that we were nominated.

See that's the thing about awards, right, we can diss them, but to be recognized by your peers and within an industry, it's great for publicity, it's great for your bio. That you're right that nominated. Show like that all does matter. Maya, you are going to the logis. I'm so excited about Maya going to the logans. Didn't they try and get out of it?

You hate things like that.

I did try, And so tell me, tell me, I am.

Jesse's not going because she's not important enough.

Can you imagine me at the logo?

We know what I'm dreading it, which sounds really spoiled and privileged and petulant. But I don't like those kinds of things. I think to the loggies one time.

Before, but we like you going to those things.

Yeah.

So I'm very anxious because it goes for six hours.

And I'm not good with that. It goes late and I'm not good.

But there's lots of sparkly things to look at. Yeah, but you've got to sit there.

And when are you going to start choosing your from?

I suppose I should start thinking when is it a couple of weeks mid August?

I think it's like three weeks.

It's on a Sunday.

Can Louders help you choose? Yes?

The assignment is out louders. It's not my night right, Like, I'm not a nominee. I don't work in Tellivision.

A good point.

I am the.

Sidest of side characters, which I'm happy about. But it's like bloody trying to find a dress for your web.

Do you just wear the same dress I could?

That's my fallback.

Yeah, I don't want to tarnish it by wearing it to the logis because I really loved wearing it to your wedding. It doesn't mean it won't wear it again, but it's like, I don't think I'm gonna like the logis very much the vibes. I'm feeling anxious about it, so I don't know. There's something very special and a cherish that dress and what it means and where it's been.

I want, more than anything anyway for me to wear the dress that she wore to the.

Sydney Out Loud show will.

Lolli Wrapper because it's like Lizard Queen meets Lolli Rapper. And the thing is is if me or what she on the front of the Daily Week and it would be so fun for me.

And my worst nightmare because it's so weird because I love clothes and I'm such a show off with my clothes. Right, My worst nightmare is you know that thing where they make people, I mean, they won't get me.

Back beyond that thing. And it turns around and one eight hundred.

Number of people can vote to you, you know, when you're sitting at home and you're going, hey, the fuck is that?

Can you even imagine?

Can you imagine how quickly I would vote?

Oh my god, I love it? In a thousand do.

You promise it? You'll be here on Monday to tell us all about it.

Then I'm not going to be drunk in.

A gutter, not Carl, not a five please.

She may get sweptop in it, and before we know it shall be on the dance floor and she'll be living us.

Because you need to go to phone off her louders need all the gossips.

The last logis after party, I who.

Do you hook up with? Come on?

No, I didn't hook.

Up any with anyone, but I was on the dance phone and I decided it was a big good idea to show whever you bred in my tattoo which is on my lower back. Oh okay, and I was wearing a long dress.

Enough said.

The LOGI goes to.

Mother Loud. Yeah, three sixteen.

What you see are just looking at me? Calm a light? Is brat? Are you brat? I am brat?

And saying how.

Loud is self appointed bratt correspondent.

Jesus, I'm here with some answers about Bratt and about coconuts, which you also might have seen online. Please take people back to the beginning and which are quite confusing. Firstly, Kamala, since Biden stepped down on the weekend and every prominent Democrat has endorsed Kamala. Her campaign has ignited hearts and minds and also tiktoks.

Should we acknowledge the pronunciation of her name? Louders are saying, it's Kamala.

No, it's not. It's just not. It's Kamala like Karma is my boyfriend? Kamala?

Right Yep, heavy pronunciation on the first salable. Okay, Karmala got it anyway. Memes about Kamala have spontaneously gone viral, and Brat is the main one of the last probably forty eight hours. Charlie XCX is a pop star who you may know from these songs.

Scar I was busy thinking about one.

Did you know I've interviewed her. No, she's really cool.

I saw her when she supported Taylor a couple of concepts ago at the Reputation concert.

Is English. She's very impressive. She has a lot of is.

Her new album was released about a month ago, and that new album artwork is lime green with the word brat. That's the name of the album, and the brat looks like it's slightly out of focus.

Lo res, If you're not entirely tuned in to gen Z culture, you would think I could have made.

That logo kind of vibe for that people.

Well, it's the kind of thing that gen z love because it makes no sense and it's the opposite of perfect and polished. It's just a bit weird and a bit no one can explain it or why anyway. A couple of days ago, Charlie XCX posted Kamala is brat and that ignited a million memes and now the official Insta account of Kamala Harris's campaign, Kamala HQ, has gone green, embracing the meme and she's got this sudden cult status among young people.

What does bratt mean?

Though?

What does it mean?

Brad is like I think of like a teenage brat who's a bit of a rebel and is irritating and it's not seen as.

A compliment, right set We just talked about that, and that's because he's old and he doesn't understand that Brad is good. He could have reclaimed it.

So in the way that the sea word is now good. If you are serving sea word, that's the best thing you can be, is serving sea word.

Being brat.

If someone else says that you are brat is.

Also a good thing.

Here is Charlie xx herself explaining what bratt is.

You're just like that girl who is a little messy and likes to party.

And like maybe says some like dumb things sometimes who like fills.

Herself but then also like maybe has a breakdown but kind of like parties through.

It's very honest, it's very blunt, a little bit volatile. Yeah, like it does dumb things, but like it's brat.

You're brat, so it's cool.

Like it's cool to be brat, even though none of the things that she just said seem like anything that you would want to be. It's kind of like being a hot mess.

Like it's being a good thing anointed by the youth. Yeah, what it is the youth are saying, we see you, we acknowledge it, and we accept you to be honest, Kamala Harris, not brat.

No, And that's also I think why it's that right point exactly now, the coconut thing. So back in May twenty twenty three, during a speech, Harris stressed the importance of not only focusing on the younger generation, but also being clear about the needs of their parents and their grandparents, and their teachers and their communities. So the context of the speech was that she was saying, it's not just

You think you just fell out of a coconut tree, you'll exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you.

So you might have heard that a little bit as well, about context and about everything that came before you. Again, it's now become something that was weaponized against her at the time to make fun of her, her laugh and that coconut tree. It's now been twisted and subverted and used as isn't she cool? So now people in support of Kamala Harris not to mock her, are posting coconut icons and coconut tree emoji.

So the thing that's interesting about this, right is that because we could all go well, that's all seems like fun and games whatever, who cares. Is that in this American election, forty one million US voters will be gen z. So what happens on TikTok is very important. And what you'll see is and this is the same plays out here it played out during the referendum last year very much.

I saw Variety critic Alison Herman. She tweeted, Kamala, if you're reading this do not acknowledge the coconut memes. I repeat, do not acknowledge the coconut memes. The children will turn on. I love that was so much interesting.

Tell me why, tell me why that's the way that.

Is Because the second she plays into it and she capitalizes on it, she's undermined the grassroots, organic nature of the trend. And so even there were you know, jokes about her coming on stage or whatever, or calling herself a brat or what. No, you do not call yourself a brat.

That's the mistake I made at the beginning of.

This show exactly. That's when people are just going to go, oh, well, it's not funny anymore. And now we've just got a fifty nine year old woman using our language. We only get to talk about you like that. What I've found interesting over the last few days as well. On Monday, we're talking about Kamala Harris, and we had a bunch of out louders rightfully point out, stop calling her Kamala, right the first name. You don't call him Donald, you didn't call him Joe. Why are we using just the

I never hated anything more than I hate that.

I hate that too.

I think that's truth in that.

But I think just the way that I'm watching this campaign go, there's a viral moment that happened between Harris and Drew Barrymore on her show where she said.

I've been thinking that we really all need a tremendous hug in the world right now, but in our country, we need you to be Mamola of the country. Oh. I hated that so much, and I think Karmala hated that too. Yeah, well, Drew's leaning forward and going I think we all need a Marmala.

Prosecutor with an incredible record, like stop have to threat.

Yes, the using of the first name it makes someone I was thinking about. It's tailor, not swift, it's Harry not styles like youth culture is all about using the first name. It's less form, it's more intimate, it's more intimate, it's more personable, and it's more equal. More than anything, it's just like we're on the same level. So it's hard to kind of untangle what is gendered, which is inevitably it is. It was Hillary, it was Julia, but also it.

Was Kevin O seven and it was let's go Joe, Like I know that sometime it's handy to have a hologan with a first.

Thing that's different about what a campaign slogan is and the way people refer to them, Like we'll talk about Angla Merkle, we won't talk about Merkle, but we'll talk about Putin and you're right, we'll talk about Hillary, we'll talk about Julia, the way we talk about people in conversations.

I get that, But in Australia we literally call our Prime Minister Albo.

Yeah, but we don't call him ant. We don't call him ant like.

It's a silly non it's not a respectful thing like it's not. We don't call him Alban easy. You know, I disagree.

I think in Australia that's the biggest compliment you can give someone implement.

But if we're saying that we give men formal names and we give women informal names, that's not.

Always Know, there's something about calling someone by their first name though, that can be a real I think.

Which is I think what the out louders were trying.

I'm going to call a Harris Heaps because I really I mean not all the time, Like like anything, you're going to switch your context depending on how you're talking. But I think that we really run a risk when we talk about powerful women if we're all trying to make them seem less powerful. And she is not the mom candidate, she is an incredible, Like I have watched on repeat, apart from the tiktoks, which have been fun, and I love trying to understand what all that's about.

Can you think of any laws that give government the power to make decisions about the male body? I'm happy to answer more specific question male versus female.

There are.

Medical procedures them that the government has the power to make a decision about a man's.

Body, and I thought you were asking about procedures that are unique to man.

I'll repeat the question, can you think of any lines they give the government the power to make decisions about the male body?

I'm not a thinking of any right now.

Center and she just pushes that point in the most calm, strong way, and he is completely speechless. That is the woman that I want to vote for, which is why it's really smart. I mean, not that I'm voting. I'm just I'm saying if I was buying into this, which is why this is all really smart. The green and the brat and the dancing. But Kamala or Harris needs to kind of distance herself from that because she needs to be seen as a serious, hardcore person because she is.

I don't know, I think that what's refreshing about her as a candidate and why I think the race has suddenly become a race is what Trump's done for a lot of Americans. Has made politics fun. It's not our kind of fun, in that he's horrible and he gets up and he abuses people and is racist and sex appalling and mean.

But he's made it a TV show.

You know, when there were interviews after the assassination attempt rally where the wife of the man that was killed said, it was just such a fun day. We were there with our two daughters. We were having such a fun day. Now that sounds like a weird thing to say, given that he gets up and he talks about immigrants, you know, raping people and stealing your jobs. But he has made

I agree, but there is a fine line between, which is why I loved that line too that Jesse brought up about the experts saying, don't lean into this too hard. Kama is. Let them have fun with her. Yeah, let the people who understand that do that. But I don't think you necessarily want Kamala to be doing the Charlie

To It's got to be both right and as usual.

It's a very very hard needle for a woman to thread, and Hillary could never thread it. But I mean, you can't say that Donald Trump is a serious person. But yeah, the expectations of Kumala. That's why it's going to be so interesting to see how these next few months play out.

I have a quick theory. I was in my car this morning and I was like, you know how Joe Biden he stepped down and the timing and everything has worked out bizarrely well. And it's worked out bizarrely well because he let Trump choose his nominee in JD. Vance before he said it was good to be Kumala. And I thought that was a stroke of genius. If I was writing a television show of the behind the scenes and I was Biden, I would have chosen that I was gonna go with Harris and I was gonna step down.

Knew everyone said that Vance is the choice. If you think you're gonna win. He thought he was going to peep against.

Against an old man, so he went, I'm going to go young. Well, now you're the old man Trump. So I think that that ended up being a stroke of absolute genius to let that come in first.

I've already started sounding this alarm, my Monkenitian alarm, in every meeting we're in. It's the hope that kills you. Friends, don't get too carried away. Everywhere I look at the minute on social it's like we're gonna smash them. This is gonna be a walk over. Let's just let it play out.

Remember the pant suits we wore to work in. Remember well, jd Vance is already called Kamala, a childless cat lady.

I love gen Z your girl, and I'm out here in these streets.

Do you think you just fell out of a coconut tree? I can imagine what can be.

What Unlimited out Loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum and Maya subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week. And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.

Katie Larson is a primary school teacher. She's American. That's not really relevant because a lot of Australian teachers who could very much relate. Katie needs to tell you about an email she got from a parent last week.

Yesterday, a parent asked me for a class list so they can invade all the kids to the birthday party. And I'm invaded to the birthday party too, very nice, said, no problem. Today the stack of inputations came and I was like, I guess I'll just put these in the mailboxes. Leader, no problem. We're outside all day. The last twenty minutes of the day, I was going to do it. I was gonna stuff the invitations and the envelopes, stuff them because they weren't stuffed, and then put them in the

Okatie, so much to unpack here?

Why aren't they using paperless posts? That's my first question, or candor or something.

Like what you're talking about or texts? Do you actually do handwritten? Of course? What like? Of course we do, like you put an invitation in the kids' school bag. I don't have all the email addresses, and you'll get a class list with all the emails and stuff'dress some places don't the private of course I don't like. I'm

You buy them in a shop and invited.

Not everybody lives in your world? Do you fax them to the people?

Then you could get the fairness?

To me? How you think that that is so old fashioned? I never even occurred to me to do it any other way, never even occurred to me anyway. So much to impact here about Katie, including that if I was inviting you to a thing, then I would in mate. But I don't have everybody's phone. I want everybody's phone.

So everyone has been sending kids party invitations to my kids that way for maybe fifteen years.

That's so weird. I've never even got one. Maybe different, I've dis missed them.

Different They've probably gone to your spam folder.

That's why I thought Billy didn't get invited twenty party.

He's just on the internet.

Am I the asshole? An asshold? And no one's an asshole here? But it's like, are you living in normal world? Or am I living in normal world? That's enough topics we have anyway, Because in case you thought this was an entirely American story about things that were expected of this teacher, a quick survey of both the Internet and out louders for some more that's not in my job description. Things that teachers got. Let me just give you a

Know, I imagine that child had his phone on it.

I must have done. Here's another great one. This is a note that came in the kid's school bag to class. My son swallowed a watch battery at home. Please use this fork and clothespin to inspect his poop until we find the battery. Stop it. Others asked teachers to clean their child's nose on picture day, to track a student's menstrual period and mood changes, and to squeeze a student's

Not at all. There are from my parents, to my brothers, to most of my aunties and uncles, all teachers I had out louders message me and say that one kid had a bit of a digestive issue. And the mother said, I need you to go and look in the toilet after he finishes his business, and then rated on the bristol stool.

Chat. Is that people joke?

Is this a joke? No, this is absolutely true. There was another high school student who the daughter needed assistance changing her pads, and look in that kind of instance, you go, that's a child who needs assistance, right, So that's actually I.

Think child needs assistance. Yes, I need assistance.

But that's about resourcing. That's about exactly, that's about a school and resourcing. I think a few things are going on. There is a lack of understanding about what teachers do day to day and what their job is. And it's not to say I've heard stories about kindergarten kids coming in who aren't toilet trained and suggesting that that's something that I said, toilet trained like a dog. But you know by Chraine that that's something that they should do.

A teacher is not your staff member or your EA.

Who then you can just go, hey, what I need from you? As invitations. I need blah and I need blah. And the second thing I think is going on to give a bit of credit or empathy perhaps to parents, is that I think parents are so busy. They are so busy to me, if a child is turning up to kindergarten and you haven't had an opportunity.

Parents more busy than they used to be.

Yes, yes, you've got two full time working parents, You've got minimal support, you've got really demanding jobs. I don't think that they have scope to do everything that they want to do for their child, and then they're projecting that onto a teacher like that seems to me.

And also, as you often talk about me, expectations of what makes a good parent have shifted too. So you've got both parents who are working, often maybe working more than one job, maybe working shift work, maybe work. You know, they're grappling for childcare. And then there's also the sort of societal demands of like and your kid will be doing all these extra activities and this will happen, that happen. There are some kids who really do need more support.

You've just reminded me part of the reason and part of the move towards digital invitations has been so that for that reason, because handing them out on the day and who's got one and then they're walking around in the playground, you're contributing to children feeling very distressed.

I am. I totally understand where it comes from, that desire for not but I also I kind of think there is an element of you just do have to understand that you're not going to get invited.

To everything if you don't have time to fill out the invitations. I think you don't have time to have a party, which is so fine. They don't need a party every year. But like as you say, it's this pressure to have the birthday party thing has become completely out of control. I just think it's like that's also a lesson you learn as a kid too, is like this year, mommy and daddy don't have time to celebrate you. I remember that being a thing twenty first of December.

Just wait till Christmas.

It's sad, it will come nothing. We're going to the beach as a family. What that's not a birthday party? Like often you don't have a birthday party, and it gives you a sense of you're not the most important person.

For what you did for Luna's first birthday.

What did I do for Luna's first birthday? I didn't do anything because she has to learn and you don't want to establish at one that I'm gonna have friends and a cake.

Well that's whole the whole other story, isn't it is what parties have become, because like hot dogs and a cake is one thing, right, and that's what my birthday parties were as a kid. I don't want to sound like oh off, But it was like if even if you had friends over, it was hot dogs and a cake, whereas you got hot dogs.

My mum put bloody bean sprouts in the sandwiches.

I was sold.

Yeah it was seventeen.

Did you do Lolli bags?

Yeah, we did Lolli bags, But the sandwiches she put like with peanut butter with bean sprouts, and I was like, I was so ashamed.

But Instagram has done a lot of terrible things to birthday parties. And sometimes you see that everybody else is having maybe catering and a professional cake, and everybody's going to this amazing performance, and then we're doing this, and then we're doing that, and everybody gets in that arms race. But I have to show you that I love you too, and it has to look great and all those things. So I very much respect your rejection of that for the first person, and Jesse I very much respected.

I think says happy Birthday like vogel.

Bread out louders before we go. We've been talking a lot about color analysis our new wardrobes. Mayna, this is very what you're wearing today.

It's not my colors.

So today I'm you know, I've broken it, and you know what, I don't look as good a lot, but it doesn't do anything for my face.

I had a male friend that I was talking to over the weekend who desperately asked me, I need you to explain color analysis and what I should wear, and I could tell in an instant I dreamt about color analysis last night. I have lost to the plot. But if you want to know more about color analysis, then we did a special bonus episode all about it that will explain all the rules. We will link to it in the show notes in case you missed it.

I want to just thank all of you out loud as we've been looking at the places that you've been listening to us Later and Hearctica. Big hello to the out louder who's in Antarctica. A research center and Antarctica lots of tract there's lots of cows, a few doctors, waiting rooms, lots of cleaning. Wherever you're listening to us.

Host louders Australia with like a van ful of parcels that they're delivering.

Night truck drivers we had quite a few of those. Big thank you out Louders. Wherever you're listening. We really really appreciate it made our week and thank you to our fabulous team who help us put the show together. And we will be back in your ears tomorrow.

Bye.

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Any Mum and Mea subscribers listening. If you love the show and want to support us as well, subscribing to Mam and Maya is the very best way to do so. There is a link in the episode description