The One Where Mia Stormed The Studio

You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and warders that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to MoMA Mia. Out loud what women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the twenty seventh of August.

It's a hard day to put the show together, isn't it, Hallywayen.

Right, it really is. I am Holly Wayne Right.

I'm Jesse Stevens, and I'm Amelia Lester and friends.

Today little girls everywhere got a reminder on blast that no matter what greatness you achieve in your life, nothing will be more celebrated than the moment a man choose. Oh Holly, come on, is that notthing? Sorry, let me buffer, let me try that again, Okay.

Squire.

Taylor Swift and Travis Kelc a engaged twenty five exclamation marks.

Woot.

Of course, we've been up since dawn curating all the hot takes for you. If only Infamous Swifty Mia Friedman was here for this historic man I'd.

See only we unpacked the shocking news from Canberra about state sanctioned terrorism in Australia.

And Northwest went out for a lovely dinner with her mother Kim Kardashian in Rome.

But all anyone can talk.

About is what North chose to wear and how it's all Kim's fault.

But first, people, Taylor Swift is getting married. It's a love story. And she said, yes, Etta, I thought we've got rid of you.

That might be Taylor's sweating dress.

What you're wearing.

Because this to her concert. And I actually thought that this was like an NFL jersey. Apparently it's baseball.

I think it's ice hockey. Yeah, some kind of hockey is thing.

Ladies and the very few gentlemen want me. Hello, she was gonna sit this in. You didn't even know.

Happy Taylor Engagement Day for those who celebrate you and me pretty.

Much how she feel, not really me? This morning at three a high school. This morning, at three am Eastern Standard time, an Instagram post appeared on the accounts of both Taylor Swift and someone called Killer Trav. The imagery is peak flower arch and amid the blooms stands Taylor Swift with American Football's titust end Travis Kelcey kneeling before her as he should, with four other gorgeously smiling kissy

Go Maya, how do you feel today?

I feel good. I knew.

I'm not surprised. I knew this was happening.

I think it is a good thing. I always thought they were endgame. Really yeah, yeah, I think they are so perfectly suited. And if there was ever any doubt I think it was very much locked and loaded when they rolled out formally rolled out there. I don't want to say brand because that sounds cynical. They rolled out themselves as a couple on the podcast a couple of weeks ago, on the Kelsey Brothers podcast, and I looked at it and I just thought, oh, they are so perfect.

And what did you think of the actual announcement? She appears to be in a forest. I mean it is in August, which is allegedly a song that hard.

Does anyone know what the stick of dynamite?

I know what it means? Oh good, TNT Travis.

And Taylor, Yeah yeah, yeah, Travis and Taylor give us an analysis of that.

They're in the flowers.

Yeah, so the thing to understand I have a friend who is a swiftie who has never liked Travis for Taylor and has always thought that he was too basic, too much of a buffhead. The thing about Travis and the reason that I think he's so perfect for her on so many levels, the most important thing is how much they've got in common. I mean, as he said on the podcast, they're both stadium entertainers. Now, who else

I think we can call it of those places state.

So they're both incredibly successful and competitive in their own fields. They're not in the same field, which is interesting, and she's obviously on a whole other level. But family is incredibly important to both of them.

And they're both daggy.

And I say that with the greatest respect and affection, because Taylor has always been a bit cringe and cheese and she's owned that like that's part of her charm.

I always remember, after what we believed to be their first date, or the first public date, because their first date may have been before that, when she went to see him play football. He took her for a ride afterwards in his convertible. Do you remember this detail? And on the roof of the convertible it has the stars because he wanted a reminder to always reach for them. Now, if that's Taylor coded, I don't know.

They're both very earnest in their way, but also very goofy, Like she's always really embraced the daggy dancing.

She's not she's not Beyonce, she's not incredibly slip.

She's very relatable and so is he today as everybody's losing their minds. There's lots of narrative that you know, I have a problem with, but we'll get to that later. That Like, we've seen her through all these relationships that weren't right and this is the right one. Do you think that the tortured poets, all that stuff, all those bad boys she was dating, all the ones who wanted to go under the radar, or do you think she was pretending or do you think she's evolved into this

That's interesting.

I think that we all visit different versions of ourselves depending on I don't know if guys do this, but I know I did it depending on who I've dated. And I think that the most important thing about Travis is that for the first time since I've she hasn't had to dim her light because she hasn't had to

What's around my age. There are some concerns in the office by single girls that they're going, I don't want an album about a joint mortgage. I don't want an album about yeah, you know, little petty fights. Like hasn't her best music been during those tumultuous years. But I think that two thousand and eight Love Story came out, which was for the basic among us, that was kind of when Taylor Swift burst onto the scene. That was the year that I graduated high school. It was everywhere.

You're upsetting me, Jesse.

What I think you're saying here, which is something that I've been feeling today. For millennials, this is the end of an arc. It's the end of an era. And I know that Holly will tell us that the happy ending is the whole rest of your life, and that that's the work in progress. But for millennials in particular, it does feel like this is the moment that we see the culmination of our youth.

And we all know the feeling of watching a friend who has dated total duds and has had really difficult moments finding their person.

And I will lie you upset. I just think that's a lovely thing.

Why are you reigning on.

Taylor's pat I don't want to rain on her parade. I'm very happy for her, But I want to say to all the single girls crying in their lattes this morning, and there are some, there are some in this office who are like, fuck another fucking happy couple, Like here we go. This isn't the ending of anything. Weddings and engagements are not the endings of anything. There's no happy ending. Almost done, now, well done, dusting her hands. Ask anyone who's been married for more than five minutes if the

That's romantic.

She's not up here for me, not someone who's ever been like I need a man to complete me.

Like.

I don't think there's anything wrong.

Isn't every single one of her songs about that?

No? I think that looking for great love is not retro or something to be embarrassed about or ashamed about.

But it doesn't have to define you, Like she's been very clear that, Yeah, she's pretty complete.

Her own, and she's got goals to kick, and she's kicked all all of the ones that you can think of, and she continues to kick more.

And what she always wanted, like even from that two thousand and eight thing, which which I don't relate with but I respect, is a loud love. She wanted someone who professed their love for her and this, yeah, Travis is loud live.

But me, I do have to say that her greatest music has been about looking for love. Are you worried that her music now is going to suffer with happiness?

No, because what we saw with Folklore and Evermore and she said she's going to do this again. Not with Life of a Show God, because that's about behind the scenes of when she was doing the ears tool, but she said with those two albums she really enjoyed writing songs from the perspective of characters, and that was the first time she'd done that because you know, before that she'd always mind her life and often her love life. But some of her greatest songs are about being betrayed

Can I ask you Mia as a resident you know, obviously swifty but also pr expert.

Oh tree Pain, Big day for tree Pain.

One of the things that marks this relationship very much, as we've already touched on, is how public it is. It's very public, this relationship and this engagement announcement is very public. The way that it was said it was for the fans, like the English teacher and the gym teacher. It's gorgeous, but it's for the fans. Right, what's the wedding going to be? Like, I am obsessed now about it.

A lot of fans are saying, I'll buy tickets. They went to the Eras tour. This is their Eras tour. They'll watch well they get married at the Super Bowl.

Is it possible to have a private wedding if you're the most famous woman in the world.

I think so, because when Taylor Swift wants to disappear, she disappears, knows how to disappear.

She's disappeared for years at a time.

So I think that sharing this with the world is lovely and it's in large part of service to her fans, who were very, very invested. But she has always done things on her terms. I don't think we should be worried about her.

I must say.

Part of me was like, oh, we should have kept this private, But then I'm like why, like for the first time she's with someone who's not emasculated, or like, oh, we mustn't be seen together on a red carpet. We mustn't be seen in public, Like for six or seven years with Joe Alvin, she had to hide, she had to like sneak in and out.

Of cars, and like, how would that make you feel?

There's a theory which I think you'll really like that the announcement was a homage to tree pain because she was surrounded by train trees.

See.

I loved that.

I think about your proposal, Jesse, because I had a friend who's like, he was wearing shorts and loafers with new socks and ooh and yuck, And.

I was like, is that about that?

You know what your betrothed was wearing when he proposed to you, what you were wearing. None of that matters, None of it matters.

And there was something.

Really daggy about it in the most over the top way, of course, which I absolutely loved, which made it feel very real to me.

They're a world in which, you know how you said, Taylor does everything on her terms, and we all know that she loves to trick us, Queen of the missed direction. Is it possible that they're already married?

No, but I do think this happened a couple of weeks ago like, I think that there's been time. I don't think it happened yesterday.

And there were hints over the weekend, quotes from Travis Kelsey's parents that suggested they knew.

Oh yeah, absolutely, I think you know, just like with your proposal, there were people around them that were clued in, and I'm sure Tree knew.

Yes.

Theory among just the Out Loud team is that Travis Kelcey did ask Tree pain one hundred percent Taylor's.

For Scott, her father, he would have had to go and ask Tree and fair enough.

One more tidbit I need to share, please, Blake Lively has not at the time of recording lying to the post.

I'm very upset about that.

And what does that tell us?

No, I just think she's not going to be made of honor.

I think it's messy.

I think that we all have friendships that we've left behind for various reasons, usually not as high profile as lawsuits and things like that, but we all do. And it's kind of a bittersweet when someone that you were super close to has this life milestone, whether it's a happy one like this or a sad one like losing a parent, you sort of feel like you should reach out. Just because she didn't like it on Instagram does not mean she didn't necessarily text. But I think probably her

Guys, there's so much to talk about.

There's the ring, There's whether or not she was surprised, There's a lot.

Of There was the nearly twelve months ago to the day, there was a leaked breakup plan, which was a big topic of discussion, and I just want to go back to that, revisit what we said.

And there are a lot of clues.

I've been diving deeper. We shocked to hear about a lot of clues. The Swifties have done their work, and there are a lot of clues in the announcement, in the photo. There's a lot still to talk about. So I'm sure you've probably got other topics to talk about. I don't know what they are, sure they'll be great. I don't really want to talk about anything else today, Okay, So I think I'll excuse myself and go do some more research and maybe see you in a subs episode.

Oh my god, I that would be amazing.

Sounds good.

I have one more thing to say about the announcement Kill a Trav.

So the first thing I thought I won't.

I checked Instagram because that's how it goes, and I saw kill a Trav and I went home follow Killer Trav. Who the hell is that she can't marry kill a Trap? He has to change his Instagram handle and then maybe she will follow him, because she still doesn't follow him on Instagram.

Change it to Travis Kelsey.

It just screams he made it when he was twelve, didn't realize he'd become so famoure. Now he's marrying Taylor Swift and he is Killer Trav on Instagram.

I'm horrified over to a different kind of Royalty. I have generously been given one whole minute. This is very troubling for me to bring you up to speed on what's been happening in princess business this week. Okay, which, to be honest, since this week one of my tailors, Megan Markle, launched an show and did a whole, big, long form interview. This is very cruel, but I understand we've been usurped by the way at Royalty. So here's my quick rundown of what's been happening in Princess business

Right?

Is he the one who makes a lobster? I've seen a clip no no no.

Episode two has Chrissy Tagan and episode eight with the lobster, that's jose Andres. He is massively famous and he's the founder of World Central Kitchen. Like he is a massive deal. So why did she keep all the good people for the second season? I am very confused about that. Same day, Meg sits down for a long form interview with Bloomberg Emily Chang in a bookstore. Presumably this is where she chose to be interviewed in a bookstore. You like books,

Night indulgence now is just a lot of duolingo?

Do you ever do know?

That's great when I could find the time. What are you do olingoing? I'm dual lingering French.

Yeah, I committed to relearning it.

And so yeah, me too, megs me too. As you know, I'm naturally we are basically the same person. Meanwhile, over in that place that Megan's not allowed to go to anymore, Princess Catherine got the world momentarily obsessed with the fact that she had dyed her hair blonde. Now, I can't really explain to you how I know, deep in my soul she did not dye her hair blonde. Princess Catherine is no more allowed to dye her hair blonde than she is to pick her undie's out of her But.

I saw those pictures of her in the limousine or something, and they think that it's blonde.

Is it just light the lighting?

It's a pat picture right through a car window that looks like she's gone proper blonde blonde. But a strategic leak has already been placed with the Daily Mail that says, this is just yacht tad. She has spent the summer in Greece and she's slowly been lightning her brown from chestnut to more caramelli and there's just a bit of summer sun on it. And that is worth a thousand headlines? Did I do well on my princess update? I updated very well.

You missed the part where I saw that Meghan got gifted by Harry the big portrait.

Have you seen this?

Yeah?

Yeah, on her Instagram today, a big black and white portrait of her laying in a field with her dog.

I think it might be her late dog.

One more thing too. You missed something else We learned from the season two of this TV show that for Harry's fortieth birthday had hats printed that said P forty for his friends to wear. I just want to emphasize to you that that means that they ask their friends to call him Prince Harry.

PH Prince Harry. Look, if this was a different day, if Taylor Swift had not made her announcement, we would be talking for hours and you would be under sufferance at me talking about that all of this Easter eggs in the as Ever with Love Megan, So just count yourself lucky that we're not doing that.

Now one's watching that season, Hollywayen right, No One.

In a moment. A shocking announcement from the PM about terrorist attacks on Australian soil. So yesterday we had some shocking and pretty surprising news from Canberra. Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi stood in the courtyard at Parliament House and he pinned last year's anti Semitic attacks that happened in Melbourne and in Sydney on a foreign power, and that foreign power is Iran. The revelation hinges on intelligence from Australia

These were extraordinary and dangerous ects of a Russian orchestrated by a foreign nation on Australian soil. They were attempts to undermine social cohesion and so discord in our community. It is totally unacceptable and the Australian government is taking strong and decisive action in response.

So in response, what has Albanezi done. He has expelled Iran's ambassador to Australia. That hasn't happened since World War II, and three other Iranian diplomats were photographed late last night in a car fleeing the country. There's so much that we still don't know about this story. There's so many questions about it. But one unexpected development to come out of it is that Iran and Israel, who has sworn enemies, now agree on one thing, and that one thing is

I bet that Albernezi is wishing he could change the subject. I have one question why Australia, Like why would Iran use Australia as a particular target for this.

It's such a good question and I don't think we know the answer. So Iran has been linked to terra plots in other countries in the US and Mark, Belgium, Albania, but the last big report on that activity came before October seven, and as far as we know, as far as I know, there hasn't been a direct specific link made of this kind to terrorist activity in the West since then.

Australia has the seventh largest Jewish population in the world, so I mean it's significant, but it's it's not the largest, like, and that's obviously outside of Israel. But reading all of this and reading the details of you know, the text messages and stuff they've got from the planning, what's remarkable and so lucky is that no one was her Like,

Just to use real layman's terms, and please correct me, I mean yeah, but is that because not I mean, not their lack of casualties, But is that because when you say they didn't carry out these incidents, but they're literally organizing and paying like petty criminals or organized.

Don't seem to have any really.

Like no deep affiliation, but to do this for them, Yeah, and then how effective they are is kind of beyond Iran's control. But what it certainly succeeds in doing is destabilizing.

Yeah, I think, Yeah, the funny thing is too that Australia by some measures, has fallen behind other Western nations in sanctioning Iran so quick. Bringing you up to speed on many many years of irun in history is that it has been ruled by this extremist religious regime since nineteen seventy nine. Since its revolutions of Western countries have taken steps to sanction and to punish that extremist religious regime.

In various ways.

Australia has really been behind the rest of the park in terms of doing that. So Albinizi just said that he's going to sanction the Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corp. They're kind of like the secret religious police there. But for instance, the US and lots of other Western countries had already said that that group was a terrorist organization. So it's almost like by doing this, Iran's kind of goading Australia into coming up to speed with the rest of the West in sanctioning them.

It's very odd, and what it did achieve was its goal of terrorizing the Jewish community.

Like it said, it's horrific.

There are just to know that these attacks were so targeted and by a foreign power. I think is terrifying and it continues to compromise social cohesion. There's an incredible article by Kylie Moore Gilbert in the Sydney Morning Herald in the Age where she right about she was.

Imprisoned in Iran.

She's an Australian academic and she says that in twenty twenty she was being interrogated by the Revolutionary Guard Corps and they were presenting her with a paper with the names and addresses of multiple synagogues in Melbourne and wanted information.

Holly needs a moment to puff fish.

One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link of the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week, and a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.

This week, Northwest and her mother, Kim Kardashian were spotted in Rome, having no doubt a very lovely meal. Paparazzi pictures began to circulate, which North has been experiencing her whole life, but this time the commentary was very different. For context, North is twelve, She is the eldest of

The thing about twelve year.

Old girls, as someone who was once a very awkward twelve year old girl knows, is that some still look like kids, and others have begun to change. And you have no control over that west And I hate to even say this, but unfortunately it's important context. She falls into the latter category, so she might look different in a corset to how another twelve year old may look

That it was read last year. When you're wearing a.

White singlet exactly.

And I can see now in hindsight how much my mum must have struggled to not say anything. And I remember fighting with her to buy a stunning brown singlet. It was a crop top with white riding across the chest that said naughty gal was from soup Prey. And I suppose my question here is what is the role of parents? And let's be real, it is always considered the domain of mothers to police their daughter's bodies.

Holly, I'm going.

To try really hard not to get all high pitched and screechy about this, because it is an absolute puffer fish for me. I have had so many arguments about this in general with people in my life. I wrote a frickin' book about it. Largely, there is nothing that irritates me more than people screaming stop sexualizing young girl while they are sexualizing the young girls themselves by deciding that once their body has changed, it is no longer

That is not the only difference between.

Them in this instance.

It is is Kim Kardashian. We cannot discuss this in isolation. Kim Kardashian. Now, I'm not making any kind of comment on her as a mother. She's going through a lot with a very very difficult ex husband who is also dealing with mental health challenges. So I'm setting that aside and saying that Kim Ashing from a very early age, was sexualized by her own mother, and you're acting like that's not common.

Because I don't believe in it. Because I really don't believe that Northwest is being sexualized. That is my thing is that I think that it's And I don't want to get personal, either about myself or anybody else in this, but it's very easy in all areas of parenting before you've got there to go like I would never I have never let my daughter.

My favorite pastime is talking about parenting stages I'm yet to reach, and the various rules that I will impose at that stage, Just like when I was pregnant, I said I would never use screens screen.

Have you met a tween? Have you met a particularly precocious tween? Have you tried to make them do things they don't want to do? Things they don't want to?

Say that what I'm doing is parent shaming. I'm saying that there is context here that her mother's rise to fame came from. And I'm not going to sugarcoat this a sex tape that some people believe that is credibly believed her mother had a hand in release.

Well, it's kind of an empire built on sexualization, isn't it.

Is that your point?

I think so.

You genuinely think that the reason Northwest is wearing that course, it has nothing to do with what twelve year old girls are wearing in the suburbs of Sydney. Everything to do with.

This podcast about the fact that two things can be true.

I reject it. I thoroughly reject.

Okay, okay, I reckon that there are two things going on right because, on the one hand, I think we are in a moment of cultural reckoning of giving children any sort of public platform, and North challenges that. For a lot of people, North, as a twelve year old, is all over TikTok. North has been put on a song by her father, who in March, by the way, came out and basically went, I'm so uncomfortable that my daughters are wearing perfume and the clothes that they're wearing,

That's my puffer fish.

But my point about that is that I think that there is a growing discomfort about having young kids in the spotlight. And Kanye just recently put Northwest on a song with convicted sex felon PDDY exactly right. So there's a big discussion that I think it's probably playing into that a little bit, which is who is protecting Northwest?

But this is the thing is, I don't think that is what anyone in the comments section is worried about, because I think that what you think of Kim and Kanye's parenting choices is one thing, right, And I entirely agree with you about whether or not it's in any way healthy for a twelve year old to have the kind of plantchion platform that Northwest does. We are talking specifically here about clothes, and the reason that it is a pufferfish and a trigger is because that is something

I have an example. I don't want to make this about our parenting choices, so I'm going to try and step back and talk in more general terms about how I felt recently when I saw a picture that made me uncomfortable. I love the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, and I love the Netflix documentary about them, which just finished its second season. Highly recommend if you have not watched it, because I'm now a super fan. I follow everything they do.

I think there is a world of difference between a commercialized, systematic kind of this is what the young girls who dance have to look like. It's one of the reasons why I genuinely was uncomfortable about my daughter and never doing dancing is because there's no choice there. It's like from six Lipstick Hair Foundation.

You just described it as a commercialized, systematic operation that is.

The Kardashian no. But what they have always buughted the boundaries, because I agree with you about that those pictures of Dallas cowboy cheerleader's made me really uncomfortable, right, But my argument about why Northwest is being shamed for wearing a corset is to me a completely separated well.

The irony of the corset, and in fact the irony of the six year olds with the cheerleading as well, is that they're just imitating what the older women in their lives are doing. So if you look at the picture of Kim and north not is just dress like Kim, And it's like, how do you explain to a twelve year old that their body is more sexualized than the body of an adult woman, that you will never be as sexualized as the moment you have curves.

I just wanted to bring to you both something that I've been thinking about a lot lately about clothing. I love buying second hand clothes, and I especially love calling them vintage because it makes it some more fancy. In fact, I'm wearing a great top I got at Finney's today, and you told me that you got yours.

At I think it was deep hop or it could have been like a Red Cross store.

I'm wondering why you look like Sienna Miller.

I love it.

But the one thing that really trips me up in buying secondhand and even an extending the life span of my existing clothes is stains. Because you get a stain and then you think I don't really want to wear that anymore, You get self conscious, you think I've got to take it to the dry cleaner. It goes in a pile of clothes for the dry cleaner, which of course never actually leaves your sofa or the chair in your bedroom that you have designated for the dry cleaner.

Couldn't agree there.

She wrote a piece called on Loving My Clothes with stains and Holes, and she talks about trying to actively shift her mindset when it comes to imperfections in her clothing. She says, a stain can end the life cycle of a clothing item just too early, like you might still love it. I think about the fact that I used to love wearing silk shirts to work, and then I realized that they all had awful yellow stains underneath them, and then I just never wore them again.

I struggle with silk and sweating. I find that my sweat I'm like, is my sweat different? Because I feel like I ruin every the issues. I don't know how to wash silk, which is a whole other thing no one does.

And you mentioned gently agitate, but who is very complex? And think about all those little silk worms who work so hard for these things, and then we're just discarding them. So here's a proposal. What if we decide that stain's a character, that they're kind of cool, and look, we do this with other items. Think about the Burken bag, the famous Umez Birken bag. They retail for tens of thousands of dollars. It's named after this French style icon

So that's a status symbol though, right though, that's kind of like saying, I know this bag is really expensive, but to me, it's just like the green bag, you know from the supermarket.

All you could say it's very sustainable of them. So I want to say, let's stop being precious about the stains. Let's stop do we judge people who have stains. No, so let's accept that we can just wear the stains and they're a sign of character and they're a sign of age.

I think antique furniture like that has little stains on it, and that's absolutely fine. I wear stains all the time because my theory is no one's looking at you, no one notices the things that you notice. They don't. And interestingly, I went really deep on what you can and can't

A lot of influencers who are obsessed with that stuff.

I think we need to go back to like learning how to wash our clothes, but also rock the stain. Mayor Friedman would say, put a brooch over it.

I want to know how many years is acceptable to have a piece of clothing or something like that. I put a thing in the Outlouders Facebook group on the weekend about towels on a similar vein right. I wrote that because I wanted some tips and I knew the outluders would help me out about where to buy a job lot of new towels, because I suddenly looked at the towels in my bathroom and realized that they were all quite rady, and that some of them, quite a

And I feel the same about tea taels. I have had tea tails for a very long time with holes in them and burns on them, and I'm like it just it shows all the years I've been slogging away cooking, which is not what's happened.

That's character.

I love it. And coffee steams. That is all we have time for today. Out Loud is what a big day. Thank you so much for listening to our show, and thank you to our wonderful team for putting it together. We're going to be back in your ears tomorrow.

And out Loud as we may have teased it, but tomorrow we are going to drop a very special subscriber episode all about Taylor's engagement. There was so much more that we wanted to say. Maya is our very special guest. She's wearing ridiculous out hit and if you're not a swifty feeling a bit left out, then may I suggest

We're always learning.

We are always learning. A link to that is in our show notes.

Bye bye.

Shout out to any Mom and me A subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want to support us, subscribing to Mom and Mia is the very best way to do so. There's a link in the episode description.