You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Hello and welcome to Mama Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the twenty eighth of January.
I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm Amelia Luster.
And I'm Jesse Stevens.
And here's what's on our agenda for today. The latest chapter in a very public Australian cheating scandal and what it tells us about a woman scorned in twenty twenty six.
And we've been reading a lot of celebrity text messages these last couple of days, and it turns out they really are just like us and Minneapolis.
What is going on? What does the video footage tell us? And where to from here?
But first, Jesse Stevens, In.
Case you missed it, Coco Goff, the twenty one year old US tennis player who last night lost to Ukrainian Elena Spittelina at the Australian Open, wishes we hadn't seen that video. So she lost in under an hour. It was very decisive and in the aftermath she was caught on video. You would have seen it if you've clicked on any articles today or you've had the TV on of her just smashing that tennis racket on like a concrete ramp.
She's gone a little bit behind a wall. Yep, so she's like hiding herself from view. Yes, but there's a camera up behind her the right everything exactly.
And so that has been broadcast all around the world. And look, a tennis player losing and then smashing a racket not unusual. What is unusual is how unimpressed golf was. And she expressed this that that moment was broadcast. So in a post match press conference, she said, certain moments I feel like they don't need to be broadcast. I tried to go somewhere where I thought there wasn't a camera because I don't necessarily like breaking rackets. I broke one racket at the French Open. This was a few
years ago. I said I'd never do it again on court because I don't feel like that's a good representation. So yeah, maybe some conversations can be had. And she said that she wanted to take herself away so that she didn't take it out on her team, and she doesn't like to set a bad example for kids who are watching, who watch someone just lose their temper.
Tic tick Coco Goff is.
My pictick at the time where recording there's talk of a potential fine fifty thousand dollars.
I don't think smashing the racket. Yes, behind the scenes, yes.
So if you are playing a Grand Slam. The rules state that players shall not violently, dangerously or with anger, hit, kick, or throw a racket or other equipment within the precincts of the tournament site.
Does that why Nick Kurrios stop playing?
He's gone quiet, hasn't he?
That's a little bit.
Now what do we think? I'm not sure what I make of this, because, I mean, do we expect them not to broadcast it? The cameras are there. This is part of the theater of tennis. It's not like a camera chaster in. It's not like a guy with a camera chaster in and invaded her privacy in that way. I think it's fair game. What do you reckon, Amelia?
I do think we're just seeing too much these days, just in everything, including the tennis. On the weekend, I was subjected to Novak Djokovic's foot like a closer of his foot as it was getting a band aid put on it, and I just thought, why do.
I need to see now, I don't want to google that.
Well, you can google feet in your own time, but I don't have to watch them.
As the point, I don't know.
It's like, isn't this why they are paid so much money because we are going to broadcast them tantrums, feet, injuries, all of it.
I have a lot of sympathy for her.
She said that she's felt like at this tournament, and she made appointed this tournament dig she feels like the only place where you're not on cameras in the change rooms. And the reason I have a lot of sympathy for I think is that she's trying to play against a lot of stereotypes about because she's really young, you know, it's really young player, about angry women, about all those things.
She's trying to play against those stereotypes by keeping her tanty and frustration private and then everyone saw it.
Anyway, I would be really pissed off too.
Yeah, but you could go to the bathroom. You could go to the bathroom, Like I'm thinking, she.
Couldn't make it to the bathroom.
She was too angry. She was like in NRL, you've got cameras in the locker room. F one you've got broadcasting what they're saying to each other. I think that access is increasing to all sports people like we are seeing them. Certainly the access is and sorry, but we want it, Like look at how viral this footage went.
The thing about this is that she will be labeled in some quarters as a tennis brat, right, which is a cliche that is handed around a lot, not only to women, I mean, obviously lots to men that she clearly is actively trying to play against by not taking out on her team, not yelling at people on court, not doing any of those things.
And is that fair?
I'm going to argue against myself here having said that we see too much. On the other hand, part of the reason why we watch sport is not just for the athletic achievement. It is because it is interesting to us as humans to watch other humans deal with enormous psychological pressure and to see how they deal with it, and sports people try and keep it under wraps in
a way that us ordinary people could never do. We were talking before about how Jesse, you and I if we were professional tennis players.
We would absolutely be labeled as hottheads.
I would absolutely be arguing with the umpire routinely, so I have nothing but sympathy for them. But that's part of why we like watching sport. We like watching people under pressure.
I found this incredibly relatable. I didn't judge her for it.
I was like, oh, will.
And you know, I understand she's trying to play against that. She's a woman. We're a lot harsher on women, not to mention black women. We saw it with the Williams sisters, like the idea that you've got a.
Temper that you can't control to a higher stand.
Yeah. I think tennis in particular, like any sport that's solo, you see these outbursts and they have been part and parcel of what tennis is since the game began.
So sny Caveman with fashioning rackets out of tweet.
It's whether or not in grass or clay. I mean, I kind of love moments like this. So maybe I'm just a bit of a perf and I just want to see people as this shit.
Look.
I think Amelia started twenty twenty six thinking maybe there'll be a show sometime where I don't have to do an explainer about some helli ish shit that has been unleashed in America.
This week is not that week. Sorry, Amelia.
We need you to help us understand what is going on in America right now. If you've been seeing headlines and frankly, very distressing videos all over your feeds about what's going on in Minneapolis at the moment, She's gonna tell us, and we're also going to get a little glimpse into a movie you might be seeing Ads Force, starring the First Lady. But first, Amelia, can we start
with the videos. There has been incredibly distressing footage coming out of Minneapolis, not just this week but for a month. But everything seemed to really come to another head on Sunday with the shooting of a young man.
Can you tell us a bit about that.
Yeah, so you're referring to the fact that there've been two civilians killed this month in Minneapolis, which is a city in the state of Minnesota, and both of these killings were captured on mobile phones by many people who were there. The first killing was of a woman named Renee Good. She was a poet, she was a mother of three, and she was in her car talking with an Immigration and Customs enforcement agent. And we'll get to who those people are in a minute, but she actually says.
Her last words in the video are she says to this Ice agent, I'm not mad at you, and she is seen visibly turning her car around to get away from him, to get away from this tense confrontation with someone, and then she is shot four times, including in the head, and a man's voice is heard afterwards calling her a fucking bitch'nbelievably distressing, it's very upsetting. And then the second video footage that people may have seen involves the killing of Alex Pretty, who was.
Also in his thirties.
He was an icy U nurse at a veterans hospital and the video that we've seen there is it's become pretty clear that he was actually attempting to stand in front of a woman who was being gassed by ice agents. He wanted to stop her from getting the gas in her.
Eyes, yep.
And then he is tackled to the ground by ice agents and then they shot him multiple times after they tackled him. And both of these videos are pretty bad, they're pretty difficult to watch, they're very upsetting, but it's interesting that renee Good was killed in the first week of January Alex Preddy was killed this past weekend, and it does seem that the pretty case is the one that is really turning the tide of public opinion against what the Trump administration is doing in Minneapolis.
And what is that?
So if we don't understand what these ICE raids are that are bringing sort of protesters and these agents into such close context, well, what is meant to be happening there? What is Trump trying to achieve by sending in these guys.
Yeah, so Immigrations and Customs enforcement agents, they're called ICE agents. They were sent to Minneapolis in what was called the biggest immigration enforcement action ever. There were two thousand of them who were sent there over the course of January. Now, to put that in context for Australian listeners, Minneapolis is about the size of Canberra population wise, but it's actually
much genser. So it's like as if Canberra was sort of packed together population wise about half a million people. So you can imagine that if two armed people came to Canberra and were dragging people out of their homes, arresting people, detaining people because they say that they are in the country illegally. Although there's plenty of evidence that they were also detaining people who were in the country legally.
That would be very upsetting for the residents of Canberra, and they might try and do things to help protect their neighbors, as people in Minneapolis are doing so. They are blowing whistles to let neighbors know that ICE agents are coming into their street. They are following ICE agents. The governor of Minnesota, Tim Waaltz, who was Kamala Harris's vice presidential candidate, he has actually asked residents in Minneapolis to get out their phones and to record what the
ICE agents are doing. That's part of why we have just so much footage of these shocking killings.
So can you tell me who the ICE agents are? Are they like police? Are they separate to police? Who are they working for? Because they just seem like this other species of law enforcement if you would even call it that.
Yeah, they are another species of law enforcement. Look, if you're curious as to who they want to join ICE the Trump administration, I would suggest you go to the website ICE dot gov slash join. I looked at this website last week and it was kind of shocking. It doesn't look like a boring website with government jobs. You know what government websites look like. They're usually pretty boring. There's some sort of like stock art of people standing
around a conference table smiling at each other. No, that's not what they have on this website. It's very stark, and there's just this really big text and it reads America has been invaded by criminals and predators. We need you to get them out. You do not need an undergraduate degree. Good news, Holley. So yeah, if you join, And it's pretty clear from this that they just want anyone who feels angry at immigrants to come and join them.
The training process has been really shortened ever since the Trump administration decided that immigration enforcement was their nother one priority. So they have allocated more money to US than any military anywhere in the world except the US military. That's how much money they have.
And they're moving quickly, right, So they're recruiting these people and sending them out because they've sent them into other cities too, haven't they. So they're sort of moving them around the country almost.
Yes, And there is some anecdotal evidence. We know they've really shortened training period for them. So ICE agents used to be trained for sixteen weeks, which I think is a reasonable amount of time for people who are allowed to walk around with guns, like dragging people out of their homes. But that's been shortened to forty seven days, which happens to be the number President Trump is. He's the forty seventh president.
Oh my god.
And that doesn't seem like long enough to train people to use guns and to detain people.
And how is it that these videos come up? I have chosen not to watch these videos, but what I have seen is then like press conferences of people in their government denying what's in the videos and saying like, oh, he was a threat, he was armed, she did this, she did that. There seems to be these two counter narratives operating, and neither side can even speak to each other on the basis of fact.
So let's get this out of the way. Alex pretty was, in fact armed.
He was carrying a gun as the second amen, Yes, he was legally allowed to carry this gun, and it was I guess in his pocket or not visible. And he was holding up his phone in one hand and an open palm in his other. So what the Trump administration has tried to say is that he was coming to this protest to massacre law enforcement. But it turns out from the video that law enforcement didn't know that he had a gun until they tackled him. So the notion that they decided to go after this guy because
he was brandishing a gun is not true. The interesting thing about this is that Minneapolis may ring a bell for some listeners as the place where George Floyd was murdered in twenty twenty and which led to the on mass black Lives Matter protests that happened in the American summer of twenty twenty. That murder was committed by Minneapolis
police officers. But what's happening now is that the Minneapolis police is saying, we have tried really hard since twenty twenty to build relationships and trust back in the community, and now these ice agents who are separate from the police are coming in, They are brandishing guns, they are detaining people who are in the country legally, and they're eroding a lot of that trust that the police built up with the local community.
So that brings us to what's happening.
Now, which is that in the last twenty four hours, Trump has basically said, Okay, this went too far, which is fascinating.
I've heard a lot of commentary which suggests that the videos and the fact that, for example, the shooting of Alex Prette, you can watch from every angle, right, So you were saying before that Tim Waltz said, go forth and film, and there's something a little bit there's very confronting, but it means that the spinning doesn't work. And I've seen a lot of commentary that's sort of saying that Trump is now looking at those videos and going, I can't satify as raw.
And a key component is guess who's mad at him? The National Rifle Association the NRA. These are the people who for years have been pushing this idea that it is Americans god given right to carry guns, as outlined in the Second Amendment. You mentioned Jesse that school shootings happen because there aren't enough good guys with guns, And all of a sudden, Trump, a Republican president who is meant to be supported by the NRA, is saying that Alex pretty maybe deserve to be killed because he took
a gun to a protest. This has angered them. So you're seeing all these interesting fractures in what used to be a coalition of say the police the NRA, the Republican president, and now that is all being torn apart,
and Trump does not like that. He doesn't like feeling like his support base is dwindling, and Americans are saying in polls, we don't want we don't want people meted in the streets like It's fair to point out that a majority of Americans do want an immigration crackdown, that's what they voted for, and they also support ICE agents going into cities and doing this, but what they don't support is killing people.
All of this sounds horrific.
What I am seeing, though, is a lot of reporting from all kinds of publications in different places saying this is a turning point, This is a breaking point, this is going to be everything's going to change from here, maybe for the good.
Maybe Trump's going to back down.
Maybe.
Why do you think that this particular incident or series of incidents has become quite so? I don't know if important is the right word, but seeing significant.
Well, another incident that we haven't talked about, which I think has contributed to the sense that it's a turning point. I don't know if you saw that a five year old boy whose father was detained by Ice agents was also detained and CenTra, an immigration facility in Texas. There's
photos of him wearing his Spider Man backpack. He's come home from school, his father is being led away by these Ice agents, and by all accounts, his mother, who was in the house where his father was detained, is saying.
Please let him stay with me.
But the five year old was instead taken away to Texas with his father for who knows how long. So I think the visuals of this are really upsetting. To see this five year old boy in his Spider Man backpack, with this huge looming Ice agent with a covered face and a mask standing over him, and then pushing him into a car. I don't think most Americans like that. I want to be clear. They wanted a crackdown on immigration.
There is a perception that immigrants are bringing crime and disorder, particularly to American cities.
But I don't think people like to.
See a five year old separated from his mother and pushed into the back of a car for doing nothing wrong. And I don't think people like Alex Pretty, who was by all accounts a great guy an icy U nurse, I don't think they like to see him killed in the street either, and this gun component has really scrambled things culturally because for the right, they're very uncomfortable about Trump saying well, he shouldn't have had a gun. That's a really uncomfortable clash of cultures.
Okay, onto something that is adjacent but seems ridiculous in comparison. The First Lady has a movie out this week. I hope you've all seen the trailer. This morning, I was getting ready and I had Breakfast TV on in the background and in the ad breaks, I saw several full length Milania trailers out in cinemas January the thirtieth.
I've totally miss it.
Yeah, all right, so I want to hear a bit about this movie.
Sorry, Is it out in cinemas in Austria?
Is in Australia you can go and see.
I can go to Hoyt. Yeah.
This is in a break on Sunrise this morning, like out in cinemas in Australia January thirty, they had a screening of this movie. It's going to have its official premiere. I saw in New York a glittering premiere.
That's why I'm going to America in a weekend.
Yeah, I think. Also January the twenty ninth New York. But they had a screening at the White House on the night of the Alex Preddie killing in Minneapolis, so things are very heightened there. They still had this screening. Lots of very important people turned up to bend the knee and watch the movie. Amelia, what the frick is going on with the Millennia Trump documentary?
You know, if anyone listening to this things, what does she know about this? I'll tell you I am the world's foremost expert on Millannia Trump because I read her memoir and I don't think anyone else.
You're the only person I know who read the whole memoir. Everything there is, Tom.
If you also watched the whole documentary.
Every time she comes up, we're going to be like, we're calling in an expert.
And I might have to go. Actually, shall we listen to a little bit of it?
Yes? You can.
Want will be there, trumph together, we'd like minded leaders.
We have a voice.
Is it safe?
Sure?
Everyone wants to know.
So here it is, Hi, mister President.
Congratulations, I did not Yeah, I will see it on the news.
I really want to go see this documentary. What about a team outing? Shall we all go.
I think we need to go. Why is the soundtrack like Teams Succession?
I know it is. I think it's North Korea. I think that it's some sort of It's like a fascist propaganda film where I can see like the posters coming down and everyone has to do.
It's made by Milania, really right bye? Well by Ratner, who's a very terrible person by all accounts.
But this is Millania endorsed.
Correct, Oh very much mine here endorsed. Amazon paid forty million dollars for it, which will a lot of filmmakers thought was a lot of money for this documentary. I love this quote from a Vogue correspondent who wrote, somehow I know less about this woman's life than I did before I watched this trailer.
Is that how you felt after reading the book?
No, and you way too much about her after reading the book. I love this bit. I was looking at the news headlines about how the ticket sales were going worldwide. Apparently in the UK ticket sales are soft.
Does that surprise you?
Holy, I can't imagine why love It'd be as keen as the Wuthering.
High Hamna Marti Supreme Millennia.
Why don't we see look outliers. If you want us to go and see it, we will do that for you, or I will do it.
I don't know about you.
No, I'm actually kind of keen after hearing that trailer.
I'd quite like to wait for streaming. I don't think I'll have to wait too long.
Life in a moment.
Reading celebrities text messages makes me feel icky, but I can't look away.
Louders, It's mea here.
Do you remember me?
I am back in your ears twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
I hope you remember me.
Exclusively for Mum and Maya subscribers. Yesterday I did a Royal rap a wrap up, not a rap dance, although Holly and Jesse were in the studio for that one. So if you're not already a subscriber, follow the link in the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week.
We've been reading a lot of text sent by famous people recently. Have you noticed that?
Oh?
Yes, it's been fascinating but also a little bit troubling to get this peek into their lives. And in many ways, what I feel like when I read these text message is that they're just like us. They text like us, they talk like us. They have the same friendship disputes and the same kind of bitch sessions about people in their lives.
That's why it's so mortified.
That's why I can't look away. And Jamila Jamil has popped up in some of these text messages in this ongoing Blake Lively Justin Baldoni. It ends with us situation because she is best friends with Justin Baldoni's publicist, and texts have come out between her and the publicist because of the ongoing court case, which I'm not even going to pretend to summarize for you, who knows where it is at this.
Point, we're not reading all these text messages because the celebrities have willingly.
Handed the moment right.
They have been subpoened as part of this very complex yes exactly.
Jamil texted Jennifer Abel, who is the Baldoni publicist, about Blake Lively. She said she's such a suicide bomber at this point, and she also wrote of Lively, I've never seen such a bizarre villain act before. Now I don't see any problem with this. I think Jamil is just being a supportive friend and I don't think there are any winners or heroes in this Blake Lively Justin Baldoni thing, And if my best friend was involved in it, I would also be complaining about Blake Lively.
Am I wrong?
I actually completely agree with you. I saw that Jamila Jamil had written a substect about it, and it was like, I defend my right to say aweful things.
Don't women say that? She wasn't allowed to say anything.
I think people went, hang on, you call yourself a feminist. And Blake Lively has come out and said she was the victim of sexual harassment and a smear campaign. Justin Baldoni has denied those allegations, and that's going to court in May. I think there is so much confusion about what the court case is even about anymore, and why
we are reading everyone's text messages all the time. What's going critical is that these text messages that Jamila Jamil sent were actually sent before any of those allegations came to life. So she was just seeing bits of the press conference where you'll remember Blake Lively was like, go watch it ends with us where your florals, and a lot of people saw that as distasteful.
But also she would have because Abel is her friend, she would have known about all the drama that we did not yet know about at that time, which was the whole Blake Lively tried to hijack the movie Blake Lively did a recover on, so she would have known about all that, which would inform those comments.
And now these text messages come to light. Question like as even as I was reading these, was like, why am I reading these? And what do they have to do with anything? And why is her name available?
That's what she says.
Also in that sort of document dump where text messages between Blake Lively and Taylor Swift and I know Mia spoke about this on a Subs episode last week, but those texts are like so cringe because it's basically about Blake being like are you mad at me?
Which is a text.
Every woman has sent a close friend at one point or another.
And what I kept thinking.
Was, God, this is such proof that we do have to be more careful about what we put in writing, and none of us, not even the celebrities, are paying attention to that.
We're not being savvy because I was reading those as well, and I always think, no, one comes across well when they're private. Texts aleaked like no one Taylor Swift almost did. I thought that the more I read from Taylor Swift, the more I went, Oh, I respect you, I respect your She was very forthright. She said, Yeah, I'm a bit annoyed because You've been talking to me as though I'm on the receiving end of a leegal.
Eck whipmus test.
A friend who said to you, Jesse in the past, are you annoyed at me? I'm sure someone has said that to you. Have you ever responded with, yeah, I'm a little bit annoyed.
No, No, that's why I respect it. That's why I was like, good on Taylor for kind of acknowledging because Blake is really and I can I can understand that Blake Lively is paranoid, traumatized, overwhelmed, the whole world has turned against her. But you read her messages and you're like, i'd be so annoyed, Like they are quite irritating messages.
Yeah, I don't know about that.
I also was impressed by Taylor Swift's friendship politics handling, but also those messages prove that what Justin Baldoni was saying was right is that Taylor Swift was very much on Blake's side.
I think what we see in those texts is Blake making.
A lot of asks of Taylor, say this to justin read this script, like watch this cut, and we don't actually see Taylor necessarily following through on any of that.
I can see Taylor feeling used.
Oh yeah, fair enough.
But the point I'm thinking about the day that she goes over there and then Blake says you were.
A lion today or whatever.
I'm thinking about all that stuff before the point, like clearly she did stick up for her mate until the point where it all became too annoying.
All well, and then it seems backed away slowly.
But I think what's interesting about this and the fact, like I read Jamila Jamil's newsletter about the horror of having your group texts leaked whatever they say, and as you've said, we can all respond to that. But one of the problems with this is it's so mortifying. It
can only really have a chilling effect. Like you hear people say all the time, why would I, for argument's sake, sue my sexually harassing boss If every single message and every single thing I've ever said about him, and every group text I ever sent to my girlfriends, and maybe once I said that I thought he was handsome or whatever is all going to come out in court now
that we all know is very often weaponized. But it's very interesting because to your earlier point, Emeli, we all like to imagine that what we say online is private, but we know and we know, and we know and we know that it absolutely is not, and yet we can't help ourselves.
We can't help ourselves. And this is I have had friends say this. I know high profile people who have said this, that they feel hamstrung that they can't sue or pursue something in a court of law because they're like, my text message is irrelevant. Text messages will be printed and made for public consumption, and no one remembers what
the court case is even for. So it's like, in terms of who is actually behind this court case, it would look like Blake Lively is on trial, which I suppose you sort of are if you ever bring a court case forward.
Imagine then having your text on the front page of the newspaper. And I have to admit it's making me really start thinking about the fact that I wish I could be more careful in my tones, like.
Yeah in theory. I think that for thirty seconds and then I get on my phone and just like there's a bit that Jamila Jamil wrote no newsletter that was spot on. She said, sometimes in a moment of hurt or weakness, we actually genuinely feel something dark and unfair. We just want to say the unsayable in response to a culture of thought policing. We want to touch that red button. We make duck jokes, we say on savory things away from those who could be hurt by our words.
We want to shock, we want to make someone laugh. We want to buy back. We want to be the smaller man. We want violence, we want vengeance. And I'm like, I get it.
Don't put it in writing. There's this button on your phone.
You press it, you get to talk to the person that you want to talk to, and you can have.
Aig old round about it that it is so generic.
But we avoid all this. If you just call and you go putting anything in writing.
You got to be careful. But holy are you living that?
Because I'm still a lot of bitch in this day and age to say it, But I doult You've got discipline.
No, not really, but I I don't trust them, you know what i mean, Like even without the I mean, I'm not a famous person who's going to be invaded, but I've got friends who will just randomly add people to the group chats in.
A whole minute.
And so I'm always thinking, has anyone ever said anything about that person back in the history, like is it this or that? You know, like none of us ordinary people are text savvy enough to protect ourselves from just the little fires that will start in our friendship groups.
And the the snubs.
And though you had you had a thing and you didn't invite me, or like I'd forgotten Betty's in that group, but I said this thing about Betty, Like.
In our tiny little lives, we're not disciplined at all.
I think as well, there was something so confronting about the email that Blake Lively sent Ben.
Affleck Oh that to me was the most cringing to do with anything. Just for a tiny bit of context, I know it's all too complicated, but basically it is true that Blake and Ryan Reynolds, her husband, took a cut of the movie from Justin Balderoni and.
Redid it right?
They basically did, and there's a lot of chitty chat about that, and then they sent it to all of their famous friends and said, give us feedback, tell us what you think.
But the cringe worthiness of the language, the.
Language, and I think that it's because we probably see some of ourselves in it, right, is because we've all asked for favors from people in the industry, and we know that in order to ask those favors, we have to absolutely grovel, And.
So it's not so much even like the favors. What I related to is we've all been in a situation where we cannot stop thinking about something where we feel we have been uniquely agreed and you can't stop talking to every person in your life.
Yeahbout it?
Yeah, And that's why.
And it's being printed. So she's like, Ben, it's Blake, don't hang up. I'm writing with a zero pressure ask I've just come out the other side of well, almost the most upsetting experience I've ever had on a movie. And then she kind of makes these jokes and then she says Ryan has asked Matt Damon to watch as well. Can you believe Jason Bourne is watching my movie. I'll get you an autograph one day, don't worry you.
Just it's that meme of ben Affleck with the cigarette and the duncan you know, head up?
And he's just and you know that ben Affleck got that email.
He's dealing with the two Jennifers. He can't deal with this as well.
And he's savvy enough to pick up the phone and he called Matt. He went, Matte, have you got this fucking email from Blake? Are you actually watching it? I Am not getting dragged into this. I have enough drama going on right now. No.
But you know why Matt.
Responded because she was savvy enough just to send the message to Matt, to Matt and his wife.
And women feel a need to respond to emails. Yes, And Matt.
Damon's wife dautifully responded and hit the ball back and bothered with Blake because women take on that emotional.
Letter of correspondence. Yeah.
The thing that's most surprising to me after reading all this is that that movie ever came out, that they ever thought no one was going to find out about all that it was a massive hit. Because also the hypocrisy of Hollywood is on clear display.
If you'll allow me. I would like to update you both on the status of the Brooklyn Beckham v. Please please Beckham brand feud right.
It obsessed us all for a few days. And then have you moved on? I was a little bit moved on, but I I still want to know what's no no.
I thought I'd moved on, and then Tory put a picture up with the Spice girls and I have not moved on. I have still heavily invested. So firstly, two of Brooklyn's ex girlfriends have come out in support of him.
This is so damning.
This is damning, Like I keep wondering if the ex girlfriends reached out to Brooklyn first.
I'm not speaking out against my like in support of my ex's on literally.
Okay, So the first one Aften McKeith. I used to watch this show called like Embarrassing Bodies or something in the UK, and I'm pretty sure her mum was on it and she was anyway, I'm obsessed with this. Google her mum. She's famous.
Often.
Keith dated Brooklyn in twenty seventeen and she saw these Instagram stories last week and then she went, you know who, I need to talk to the Sun so she called up the Sun and she said it was hard for him growing up. There are two sides to every story, but I know growing up in the spotlight was very challenging for him. And she recalled that whenever he got his picture taken by the paparazzi, he was really upset. She talked about his anxiety and how his parents were
away a lot and that left him feeling isolated. Then another ex named Talia Storm, who was Brooklyn's teenage girlfriend.
Talia storm yame love it.
Victoria is, like I thought I'd heard the last view Talia Storm. Well, apparently Victoria never liked her. She Talia called the Mirror and she said, my first wife, Victoria never liked She said. My first thought was good for him. People have all heard a million stories over the years, and I just thank God, bless Brooklyn for coming out and sticking up for himself.
Elf.
I think he's just had enough. So this is all happening. And then the Spice.
Girls picture drops.
So Victoria Beckham, I guess she's at an event or something and she's.
With somebody babies, babies, baby, okay.
And so more of them. Look I am a little bit.
Jerry was there, Jerry was there. One of the main wasn't there.
Okay, That's what I need to ask you about because I'm a little bit rusty on my Spice girl's law. Is there friction?
They don't like each other?
Okay, so we had they all showed.
Up for Jerry's fiftieth. I need to point that out. Okay, maybe baby's actually not easy to get along with.
I don't know.
Okay, because there were four of the five Spice Girls and everyone got very excited about that. And then I think Victoria got given an award that's also a by the French. Everyone was there, lots of picture the.
Best people to give you awards because it always happens in like a fancy chateau.
Yes, told us everything about the Beckham strategy. They are keeping calm and carrying on because basically, although everybody said last week and we talked about this on the show, oh David, he's responded in Davos, he didn't. He just had that on the schedule and he had to do it. This Paris thing is very much. She did what she would have always done. Everybody went, everybody wore their nice dresses, everybody smiled at the camera, the sons, the girlfriend's harper.
She is just keep the playbook, keep going faces forward, everybody spit wash your face.
We're getting on with it.
Do you reckon We're done?
I think from the Beckham side, I do not think they are about to spill their guts. I don't think Brooklyn's done because Brooklyn and Nikola have got a huge boost from this publicity wise, because as often discussed, what do they do right? So their profile is brasing.
Holly, you have the hot sauce?
Do you know how many iterations there were before on the right formula trying your hot sauce?
I nearly run out of it and I will be sad when that happens, because it's fricking delicious.
But that's true. Okay.
So apart from test out hot saws in one of their many mansions, what do they do? So this is great for them? And as we talked about last week, apparently the rumors of the book.
Are headlines great which books all?
Nicola will do a tell all that Brooklyn will do a Harry. Basically, no, I think the Brooklyn will write oh good. But I think that these things are all. I don't think that Brooklyn has done. But I think that for now we've seen the Beckhams decide to keep going. And there was a little bit of shade thrown by
the boys. They posted a TikTok cruise and Romeo with their girlfriends and Harper I think in the back of the car and they were doing some silly TikTok trend and it was like, imagine hating and we're just here like that. But I mean it wasn't exactly skating. No, I think they're going to keep trying. I just imagine that Vicky is telling those boys every day Romeo and do not do not.
I don't want to hear it. No posting, but they're going I hate him.
What are.
After the break?
What is the right way to show up in public after your partner has publicly humiliated you. An Australian influencer has a new playbook for us.
Friends, gather around. I have a story and a question. This story was.
Absolutely everywhere over Christmas and New Year when we were not on the.
Air, right I totally missed it. I came back, I heard bits and pieces and I'm desperate for you to fill me in.
We also one of the reasons why we haven't talked about it is also because it is a bit icky, but it keeps getting more public. So we are going to talk about it because I think there are some lessons in here for us all. When your relationship explodes in spectacular fashion and you are betrayed and humiliated, whether that's either in your little community, because this is something.
Like, you've still got to show up at work.
Everybody knows that your marriage has gone through a bad time, whatever, You've still got to show up at the schoolgate. You still got to go whatever it is right. You know, people talking about how are you meant to behave when you're the wronged woman? Are you meant to a hideaway? Lick your wounds, protect your peace? You might have some shame attached to it. Let that fade, reassure the kids everything's going to be fine, or do you go hard relaunch?
I will survive. Fuck you all of that stuff. The Lily Allen Roote, We could call it the Lily Allen Root.
Tabloid readers and Instagram scrollers have been watching this particular decision being made in real time by Australian influencer.
She used to be called a wag.
She hates being called a wag, but all the wags hate being called a wag. She is a wag or she was Jules Neil? Right, she has picked aside and she's picked the second one and yesterday she went publics with it.
Do you know who I'm talking about when I said Jules Neil.
I had never heard her name before this morning. Who was she married too? Or is she married?
Jules Neil is married to Lucky Neil. He's an AFL player and he's a big deal AFL player. Until a hot minute ago, he was captain of the Brisbane Lines. The Brisbane Lines won the premiership last year, so he's the lead player in the most successful team in the country. He's won the Brownlow twice.
He's a big deal. Okay.
His wife is called Jules Neil. They were teenage sweethearts. They have been together forever. They are from Perth. They got married in twenty eighteen. They've got two little kids under four. She is a bit of an influencer, not like a big deal influencer, but like she's always had a quite a public profile, posting.
About their lifestyle and the babies.
And obviously they moved to Brisbane and when they moved to Brisbane, she became really good friends with Tess Crosley, who was an influencer and entrepreneur and interestingly a former Mormon missionary.
We won't go down that rabbit hole, but oh my god, I love that.
And as beck Day wrote on Mama Mia this week, the pair were the ultimate influencer BFFs, posting together from AFL red carpets, lux holidays, and footy games, as well as for a time co hosting a podcast together where they discussed their lives, fashion, and the reality for Jewels being in the AFL spotlight. The two families social media was intertwined, shared holidays, social outings, and dinners populating both women's feeds. I bet you can guess what's going to happen.
Apparently they live five minutes away from each other and everything's cozy until in December, Instagram detectives noticed that the pair had unfollowed each other and that Jewels.
Had deleted all the pictures of tests from her feed.
And then in December, Jewles abruptly moves back to Perth with the kids. So Lockey's wife moves back to Perth, and when stories started to appear about this, she posted on Instagram story. This is why this has become very popul because she commented She posted on an Instagram story Brooklyn Beckham style, outlining in no uncertain terms where she stood with the separation. I want to make it very clear that I am not working through anything she posted.
I have been betrayed in the most unimaginable way. All I can do now is try to heal and do what's best for my children. And the tabloid world went so.
The translation is that Lockeye, the football captain, has had an affair.
Well, nothing has been confirmed in that way, but if we would expect, stories fly that another footballer's partner found Locke and Tess in a car together.
Told Jules and all hell bros.
Right, that's never been confirmed. But what definitely did happen, which tells us that we all know something really happened, is that Locke quits his job. He is still playing, to be clear, but he gave up his captaincy, which is a big deal when you rise to that point. He's got the most high profile job in all of AFL. And on January the second, I think earlier this year, he stands up and gives a press conference where he confirmed he'd done something, and he stepped down as captain confirmed.
He says this, I can confirm that Jules and I have separated. I have let my family down. He's standing in front of a camera with all the mics and all the all of the media in front of him when he says this, and I have let my family down, and I apologize for my actions which have hurt those closest to me. I accept that this is a consequence of my actions, and I need to rebuild the trust with Jules, who is in Perth and nowhere near him.
Are you with me?
I am so with you?
Okay.
Ever since juwles Neil, everybody's looking at her right, So this story is all over the Daily Mail and news dot Com and all over Instagram and everywhere, and everyone's looking at juwles Neil to go what's she going to say next? And she's been giving a bit of a masterclass in refusing to play the wronged wife. Really, she's been like tiktoking vision boards of nights with the girls sipping wine with like Olivia Dean songs playing in the background, with.
A really great shaguitary board.
Yes, Taylor swift song's playing in the background, and then she signed with a talent agency. There have been think pieces about how she's rejecting the shame of a public cheating scandal, and then also people saying she shouldn't have gone public at all because somebody think of the children.
And then this morning the Daily Mail carries this story, which is also on the front page of The Age, inexplicably on every morning TV news bulletin, which sounds a bit like it's out of Bridgington, which is the former wag stepped out at the Australian Open in Melbourne on Tuesday, making her society debut as a single woman.
Stepped out is the greatest. We need to do more stepping out.
I know I never stepped out.
Now, I know that Jules Neil is a real person and she is building her career back up. I know that these people aren't normal though in terms of the amount of attention that's on this, the level of public interest isn't normal. But what I can tell you is that when any big split happens in a friend group or a community, it does come with a lot of public opinion. The mom's at the schoolgate or the parents at Schoolgate. Let's not be sexist about it. We'll be playing the role of the Daily Mail here.
They'll all be like, poor you, oh dear, did that really happen? Or did you hear about that?
Or they'll be talking about it. She must have known something was going on. How could she not? Like a million opinions and the score woman is usually portrayed as something as a shameful figure.
Are we seeing the end of that?
With the Lily Allen's of it, but also of this very Australian example where Jules Neil is looking a million and twenty bucks at the Australian Open, sip in her champagne, going this is me, screw you all.
It's like the Schoolgate example is oh, she must be so embarrassed, like there's a sense that the embarrassment lies with you. And what I love about this narrative and how she's handled it is that there's no trace of her feeling embarrassed. And in fact, when she got a whiff of that, she jumped out and went, hang on, I'm not going to let you all speculate about what
I am and am not working through. I've done nothing wrong, which by all accounts she hasn't and she didn't go into an enormous amount of detail, but she did enough to kind of go I'm in Perth looking after my kids. And then for her to reclaim that narrative of a bit, I think she has been listening to Lily Allen.
There's a difference with Lily Allen because Lily Allen goes into minute details on how she is wronged. What I find so graceful about what Jules has done is she told us where she was at. She didn't know allegations or disclose what anyone else had done or hadn't done.
She tells us what she's up to.
And to be clear, she would probably be offered quite a lot of money to do that. This kind of consumed everybody for a period over that quiet news time, and there would be tabloids and there would be tabloid news shows. Who would be like Jules Neil Tellell And so far she's obviously chosen not to do.
That, but I can't understand the pool though. There were reports as well that she did comment on her former friends Instagram basically being like, remove these images.
You're embarrassing your.
You're embarrassing yourself.
So, and I deleted it.
Yes, then deleted it, which I've found incredibly relatable. And I think that when you're in moments like this, you're so up and down, like sometimes you're full of adrenaline and you're angry and you want to respond and you want to put it all out there. But I think so far she's shown kind of a lot of restraint, and I love the idea that she gets to own this. She has a talent agency thing. She's just like, you
don't get to shame me. I'm going to go to the Australian Open with a drink in my hand and pose on this media wall and I've got nothing to be embarrassed by.
And I think that's what the vibe shift is. I think you've really nailed it there by saying that it's about taking away the shame and embarrassment factor, because the woman in this case has not done anything.
Whereas it sounds like it's sitting on his shoulder. It's like even that press conference, like he ought to be mortified by what he's done.
I mean, there's another question there about whether you have to quit your job. She's done something you know terrible. Is maybe an overstatement, but it's not criminal, but something you know bad, Yeah, in your private life. That's like almost another conversation. I mean, who knows where he'll end up, whether he'll end up going back to playing Perth and
all those things. But I wonder also if maybe the narrative of a woman's life being entirely ruined by a man's actions or choices maybe one of the reasons why the vibe shift is there, because does that have to be true?
And increasingly it's not, as women are able to build their own lives separate from their partner. There was a substack recently by Lisa Dawson, who's a writer in her fifties, talking about how the script on divorce has been flipped.
It's no longer an inevitable tragedy.
It was called if you leave me now, I'm going to be absolutely fine, and she talks about her husband basically seemingly out of the blue, telling her I'm not.
Happy in the marriage.
They're both in their mid fifties, him pretty much up and leaving after that, and she tracks how she felt on the first few days after he left, and it's really surprising to her because on day one, yes, she's unhappy, she's sobbing. Her twenty three year old daughter is comforting her. On day two she's actually back to doing Instagram ads that's part of her career. And then by day three she describes actually feeling liberated, and she's also just very surprised.
This is not what she thought was going to happen, and she tries to figure out why she's having this really unexpected response, and she has this interesting theory. She says that women in midlife experiencing divorce have actually been on this upward trajectory to that point. They've been climbing career ladders, they have been raising children. They have, by her telling, often taken on more of that work than
the male partners in their lives. So they've been improving themselves basically getting tough, as stronger, more organized, whereas she says that for men in midlife, they're typically plateauing. They're not doing that self improvement journey in the same way as women are. What do you think about that theory?
I see that theory play out a lot around me. It's interesting because it's very different life stage to the Juels Neil story, but in a way it echoes itself, because in both those cases it's kind of like I can get on with things and my life can be fine, whereas before there may have been more of a well, it depends.
A bit what he decides to do, isn't it Also isn't the common denominator in all of these stories, Lily Allen, this one, and Jules Neil, they're all supporting themselves financially. I think that it's like that's the part where you can remove the feeling of feeling completely disposed by someone, or feeling pathetic or feeling which none of those are true. And there are so many women who do sacrifice career to look after children and then if they are dumped tomorrow, that's a very very different.
There's different also different life stage. Yeah, right, So if Jules Neil's got tiny little kids, and I mean again, they're not normal people and when it comes with normal incomes, but if you're in the middle of that time little kids, is very different to the place where the substack writer is, where she's got grown up children and she has been
rebuilding her career. But I think that's very absolutely true, is that the financial cost of divorce is enormous in terms of lifestyle change in terms of all the decisions that have to be made, in terms of what it means for your future. That's why an enormous amount of people don't do it, who may want to, is because they're like, everything will shift, And that is absolutely true, and it's not to minimize it in any way, but when more and more and more women are financially independent.
It does shift that switch a bit.
It does move that needle and go, well, I could I could support myself, I could move on, I could do this, I could do that, and emotionally what I liked in that sub stack. Anyone in long term relationship knows how complicated they are, and it's very rarely you know, he's bad, she's good, or she's bad like whatever, either of these women are prepared to wear. The woman in the subtext says, no, my marriage was good, we were happy, we did talk about things, we did do this, we
did do that. He has chosen that he wants something else. Yes, it doesn't necessarily mean that I did anything wrong.
I'm not going to wear that rejection for the rest of my life.
Or readjust what I was perceiving reality to be. That's a really key point she made. She's like, well, I was happy, and I'm pretty sure he was happy too, and I'm not going to erase all of that just because he made a choice.
That is all we have time for on this Wednesday. Thank you for being with us as always, and thank you to our amazing team for helping us put the show together.
Bye. Mom and Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast.