The New High Status Boyfriend

You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on Hello, Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking about on Friday, the tenth of October. That's shouting them was a little boo, wasn't. I'm sorry, out louders. If that like really, I'll startled you. I'm Holly Wayne Wright.

I'm Jesse Stevens, and I am Stacy Hicks feeling in for em Vernon. You might have heard me on Parenting out Loud, which drops every Saturday.

And here's what's made our agenda for today. There's an actual princess married to a shaman and a generation ex princess whose new boyfriend is a dead set manifesting guru. Is Woo Woo dude the new status celebrity boyfriend.

Plus there's a very convincing case for opening a joint bank account with your friends.

And the essay that made me wonder if having kids is morally wrong. I am desperately going to try and launch a defense I haven't quite worked out yet. But first, in case you missed it, people are no longer job hopping their job hugging. According to recent research from Bold hr SO, job hugging is when an employee stays in a role even if they're unhappy or they're finding the

Once.

Remember just after COVID, when it kind of there was the post COVID flush and suddenly the job hopping thing was big. It was like yes, everybody was like I'm living my best life now I've learned what matters to me, and I'm going to jump jump jump jump jump around and now we're all like, rah, the robots are coming and we're like, I'm holding.

On for dear life.

Yeah, And I felt like the golden number was like two years. Remember, like you never really stayed in a place for more than two years. That's what we were told. You had to go to the next, go to the next, keep increasing.

And it was a lot of people were leaving jobs without another job lined up, which I was always in awe of because it's like they just went, I will jump in the Paris figure it out. Yeah, something will will help.

The thing about hugging, So the term job hugging, and I understand the fact that this can be a negative thing because you know, if you are over where you work, it's better leave, let's be honest, Or you're over the job you're doing there better from everyone that you leave, even though employers would like you to stay longer than two years, ideally because a lot of investment goes into

Yes, So this is how you can tell some people realize the job. My dad has been doing the same job for something like thirty years.

Yeah, right, it's great if it's not broke.

It's not exactly huge hug it tight take that money. But there was a psychologist interviewed in this article, and she said, if you get a lot of anxiety on a Sunday night, if you're irritable, if you are bored, and if you feel trapped, then they're all signs that you're hugging rather than just happy with where you are. Are you guys noticing this even among friends and stuff?

I think so. But I have a theory that it's not because of stability. I feel like it's flexibility that people are holding on to, because you know how if you just started a job, you couldn't go in on the first day and say, oh, do you mind if I work from home because I've got a doctor's appointment at two pm. I'm good for it, Like you have to kind of earn the good will for flexibility. So true.

And apparently all the stats say as well that job mobility is down, like people aren't going yeah, like they genuinely aren't hopping. That's just I think all over the world. And that's because of you know, the economic climate right now.

But that makes sense about the flexibility because obviously there's been a big pushback into the office because at different points in your career, different things are important to you. Sometimes you'll take flexibility over more money. Sometimes you'll take extra holiday days, et cetera. And other times you're just like, absolutely not. It's all about the dollar dollar bills. I mean, it's always about the dollar dollar bills. But you know what I mean. So, if you've got a young family

You're like, huh, yeah, you'd have to negotiate that all over again.

So a few years ago they were talking about quiet quitting and there was bare minimum Monday, and acting your wage was the other thing. And I was reading all of those and I was like, I think they're totally compatible with job hugging. I think you can do all of those things without leaving your job. Lots of these people have probably quietly quit, but sometimes you just got to work for the money.

Okay, I've got a theory, but before I explain the theory to you, I need to start with a bit of a recommendation. Okay, have either of you two watched The Royal Rebels on Netflix? No, I'm offended. I've been telling you that the word royal in it. I've been telling Jess to watch it four weeks so I've offended.

But I started Slow Horses. Has anyone watched Slow Horn?

Amazing? Did you start at season one? I did, mate, It's one of the best things on TV.

Well, there's a bonus recommendation there, you go.

Some of my recommendations are good tough, all right, So what The Royal Rebels is. It's one of those PR documentaries that we talked about the other week procumentaries.

Oh so like David Beckham's.

Yeah, it's like a movie length documentary made directed by the person who won an Emmy for doing Tiger King. So very very classy, well made docco but made one hundred percent with the cooperation of the royals in question

This is probably something I should know by this age, But what is a no?

Please? I have been dying telling you. So a shaman is a spiritual practitioner, so like also could be a priest or a priestess not in the traditional religious sense, right, who might counsel, might preach often enters and you see Derek doing this during the show, like an altered state of consciousness while doing it right to communicate with the spirit world and pulled you through whatever problems you've got. They claim sometimes that they can heal the sick, they

Of course, is Derek White.

No, so Drek is from California, so he's American, but he is a man of color. He says that his heritage includes Haitian African Native American, so a mixture, but he is a man of color. And he was the first black man to marry into a European royal family, so he's a sharman. He also is this is just relevant in terms of how much he stirred the pot in the European royal world, not in any other way. And he is also not straight. He has in the past stated guys and now he describes himself as a

Tell the people He's a forty nine year old hypnotist. Yes, is Jim Curtis. Look, he's Instagram following has skyrocketed. He's now in the six hundred thousands.

I'll be happy with that.

Hiss bio is My mission is to help you heal and strive by upgrading your I am and I don't understand that.

Why don't you know.

Like manifest and yeah, yeah, because that's what Durex doing on his Instagram too. Every day gives you a prayer and manifestation. You get to choose a crystal.

And that's the thing, right, is that At first I went, oh, yeah, all right, Jim, And then I watched a few and I went, I feel inspired. What can I say? Because he said this was one I saw today. Reflect on a story you have told more than once in the past month. Is that story empowering? If not? Let it go Wow, Jim Wow.

I feel attacked.

So thank you, Jim.

So he is a hypnotist and this is part of a broader trend, right, because Holly, we were talking. You've been wanting to talk about Jennifer Aniston's boyfriend because the moment you saw this smiss and you said it's the new Silicon Valley tech bro. Yes, he's out of favor right now. Right, we've just gone you've not done good things to the planet. We don't trust you anymore. Miranda Kerr married one, and now there's this shift towards this

Witch, yes, the witch doctor, the witch got professional witch.

And then they broke up. And then Brad Pitt after Angelina Joel also dated and I want to get this language correct, a spiritual guru named sat Haari Kalsa. She was like, did jewelry and stuff, but she was also very very spiritual. Katie Perry titled her album her Angel Numbers. Like Hollywood is leaning into this. Gwyneth Paltrow always adjacent. She has every type of healer, every type of Crystal and Jennifer Aniston. I think it's important because it was

Well, famously, the poor celebrities have really tough life, so.

Exactly they need to want to hold their hands help through.

Well, but look at it this way, right, these are people who have reached a level of like financial security and stuff that the rest of us are like, that would be nice, all we think, but also we're like, oh, you'd have nothing to worry about. But they clearly still have plenty of things to worry right, But that's not one of them, and they might have a lot of healers on their payroll. I remember Elizabeth Gilbert saying in that on that press tour for her book that she

It's very la as well. So this Jim apparently wants to be the next Oprah. That's some gossip I read.

If I wanted to be the next Oprah, I would date Jennifer Aniston. She's friends with Iprah of course, and also Manifestation.

I know he has manifested so hard. He all so has a book I did, And do you want to hear what the title of the book is?

Please?

How Jennifer Aniston fixed my broken?

Oh?

He start read on Yahoo? Okay.

If he does that, he is out. Jenna is not going to hang around for that. She would have to be so certain. If you're Jennifer Aniston and you've been through all that she has been through, the tabloid troughs and tribulations, the twenty million she's pregnant. Miracle Twins did, oh poor her, she's been you know, wronged again. Deanngela like, if you've been through all that, the last thing you want is a guy who's going to write a book about Yes.

But then I did read she's under the spell. That's the thing I did, well said cluck like a chicken if you need hell.

Yeah, Andrew Garfield's professional witch girlfriend got accused of putting a love spell on him until they broke up. Obviously, but maybe the same is happening.

That's the thing. People aren't trustworthy because they're like, has he carved a spell on her? And then everyone went and looked at his Instagram and they were like, no, he's just really old.

Yeah.

I think that he's just got a.

Lot of quite attractive I think you would feel safe. I think to your point earlier, Jesse, I think you've nail it. I think it's funny that you're suggesting these people are Charlatan's when you're the ones who may all get our tarot cards read alive on the podcast. But I think that to your point earlier, I think that in an uncertain world, the tech bros are definitely on the nose other like middle aged male Hollywood actors are

I was about to say this hollyway and right. I was like, you know who needs some witchy wore in her life? Is Nicole Kidman. And there is six degrees of separation maybe even three to Jennifer Aniston because they have mutual friend Reese with a spoon. They surely are mixing in the same circles, so witchy Man can get some.

Does your hypnost's boyfriend know any other hypnot.

Yes, surely.

I hope you've enjoyed this, this installment of scoreless gossip about woo woo celebrities, and go and watch the royal rebels do your self.

Favor And can I throw in one more tarot card prediction that came true?

Oh yeah, okay, we're here.

So while we're here, so she said, I was gonna have a boy. We discovered Jesse's we know at least one boy, right. The other thing she said is she kept saying, you're going on a holiday. It's going to be to a city. It's gonna be to a city. And I was like, no, I've got a holiday booked and it's beachy like anyway over the weekend. Had to pull the plug on that holiday, and now it looks like we're going somewhere a little bit more city, Okay. So I'm just like, she's there, She's just always spot on.

And why.

Is it immoral to have a baby? Is the decision ultimately self interested? And how does one square bringing children into the world given the threat of climate change?

Just a few little questions for Friday afternoon.

Look bleak. I know it's blak, but there was a brilliant essay by Breeley published by the ABSA recently that really got me thinking. So she says that we've seen this rise in the pronatalist movement, So think Elon Musk with his at least fourteen kids. Vladimir Putin has set up an award in Russia for women who have ten children in less than ten years, like it's some sort of competition.

So she's tired, she needs an award awards Snickers bars.

Yeah, I think also maybe an appointment to pelvic floor physio After all of that. Every religion, as well as every economic policy tells us that having kids is a good thing.

Right.

But alongside pro natalism has been another taboo movement growing over the last twenty or so years, and it is called anti natalism. David Bennetta is the world's most prominent anti natalist, and he says that having kids is morally wrong. All it does is create more suffering. That child doesn't exist yet, so you can't be having kids for their sake. They're not consenting to being created. Given climate change is bringing with it extreme heat, food shortages, conflict. I could

Jesus, is this making you feel really anxious because you're brewing a.

Couple of babies exactly right? And I will say I meant to have one, so don't come for me.

Anti natalists I think it's okay. I think I don't want you to get anxious about his predictions anyways.

On I feel sick saying all of that out loud, but I think most people with kids are thinking it anyway. Abby Chatfield posted a similar question on TikTok a few weeks ago. Here's what she asked.

Parents, don't get mad and I ask you this, Okay, I have an actual question for you, and I'm asking this in the most earnest way possible. This is not a gotcha. This is a genuine, genuine question to parents or people who are pregnant, or people who have decided to have a baby, like doing IVF or something. People who either have had a baby or have decided to have a baby in the past year or two. Okay, how do you rationalize having a baby with the climate crisis?

I suppose I would love to ask you both the same question, Holly.

I think it's a fair question to ask, right, Like, I genuinely do any question that you have.

To do that much set up about, you know it's going to believe me.

I work in the same world, I know, But like, if you have to set the question up that many times and you know it's going to piss a lot of people off, and I have not seen the responses to that, but I can only imagine. So Brealley is an author, a writer who is I think she's extraordinarily good. She writes really interesting offbeat stuff. And her new novel it's called Seed. I've read it. I've blurbed it because

Gonna but it's okay, Jesse. I only have one, so you and each other's fine. Her argument would be replace yourselves. So this argument's been going on for a long time. I don't feel attacked by this idea, but what I do understand is that this concept sort of exposes my limitations because I feel deeply for the state of the world, but I also have to look at my kids and kind of think, and I know this is very imperfect thinking.

I reckon I did think about it. I had a moment with my family that I've talked about. They got trapped in a bush fire just before twenty twenty, so end of twenty nineteen, and it was like summer fliers, YEP and apocalyptic experience. They got trapped. The sky was black red for days, fridges were broken. I could barely contact them, like it was terrifying, and I I've always been really engaged in discussions about climate change because it terrifies me and because you know, I believe in it.

But it is true that the birth rate is dropping. It is just not for this reason.

Yes, I'm sure that there are some there are absolutely going to be people listening who are like, that's why I didn't have them, But statistically it's not as relevant as some other reasons. But another comment I saw on Abby Chatfield's video that did resonate with me was that it's a radical act of optimism. And I've never been more future oriented. That is not to say people without children are not, but never been more future oriented since

Look around and things are probably not going to be great in all kinds of ways. But on an individual level, you could look around and point to people who are really trying to do really good things, you know, yes, And you can point to the just ordinary acts of kindness and generosity that around you all the time that you suddenly become almost more aware of when you're forced into a community you know which you are when you

So yes, there is something within this movement that feels so nihilistic and so despairing, and it reminded me of

Yeah, And what I thought was really interesting that Brees spoke about in that essay as well, was that a lot of GenZ in particular site climate change and reducing their emissions as a reason that they might not have children or they're considering not having children. But there's a twenty twenty four IPSOS report that talks about like the three main ways you can reduce your carbon emissions. One

I like one fewer because I can have three and go, well, I could have had four, Exactly, I could have ten and go I could have had a leg Yeah.

Or you can just take I'm one of the ones and have But the other two were to not have a car and to take one fewer flight. And I feel like both of those things are probably more achievable options, or different options for people rather than just choosing to deny themselves a child if they want to have a child and feel like they could give a child a good life, right, yeah.

Yeah, And I really like what you were saying wholly about individualism, because Brie says in this essay that many people are annoyed by the idea that their most personal decision, which is whether or not just become a parent, is influenced by guilt for scale of harm, for profit. No individual human brain can conceptualize. I can't. I'm actually not equipped.

I feel like I can't take that on exactly.

And that's kind of what I mean when I say, when I look at my kids and I think about this without wanting to downplay the seriousness of many terrifying things that are happening around the world, I just can't project that onto them. I just have to imagine that to a certain point, they will figure it out, as

So I quite. I quite like the idea of like choosing resistance. That doesn't mean that you're choosing kids. But there's also such to think that we are bad, we are born for suffering. I just go I fundamentally don't agree with that. I'm going to choose a bit of.

Joy, my goodness that I never thought i'd see the day with my friend Jesse Stephens is the one choosing joy and hope. I love it about you, I know. I do want to say, though, I don't think there's anything wrong with having this conversation. I think it's all right for us to have any conversation. It is.

But don't you think too that we're talking pro nat lestandi na da da da da da, these big broad economic policies. It's just not how people this. The choice to have a child is not Maybe it is for some people. For me, it's not a philosophical or intellectual exercise. I really like what Briley says about I want to do the Moraley right thing.

Of course one of us willingly going against it. Yeah, we don't want to harm the planet. Yeah, that's not the main consideration when a child.

Her final line is basically it would be the most cynical conclusion of all that we are just mere animals, beyond the reach of persuasion or philosophy. I don't think it's cynical.

I think it's true.

I think that's what I am, a mere animal.

Last weekend, we had a long weekend in many parts of Australia and if you were lucky, you might have gone to dinner with mates or on a weekend away. I didn't because I'm not organized enough and I seem to forget every long weekend is coming. I know.

It started the Victorians listening and going to be like I didn't get one, Well you got one the week before. Yeah, okay, we're sharing them around. Everybody's got one different. Take one for Melbourne they get, oh yeah they do, but they get one for the AFL Gram final. So they had

There's a new trend if you want to be doing more weekends away with your mates, that might make that more achievable. And that's their friend groups and now setting up joint savings accounts with the pure purpose of saving money to go and do more things together. So we so much tell me how that works. Yeah, okay, So on Mom and Me, we ran a story about a woman, Kim Brindle, and she kind of laid out how they do it. So her and her five friends in her

Oh I like that.

It's great, right because genius It kind of forces you into doing something. You've saved the money. Now the money's there, you've got to use it, and it stops the worst part of any group trip, which is the constant transferring of money between each other after the meals.

Okay, but what if we have a big falling out?

What then? Oh?

What like this?

How about financial abuse? Maybe someone could set up the bank account then disappear. This is going to be the next Tinder swindler?

What happened to my hopeful little mere? Can? I think so, pessanvely Joy, I think this is genius, as you say, Stacy, So I have this one girl's trip every year and people always say I wish I did that, or my mother's God. But the only reason that happens is because it is locked in, you know what I mean, Like it's in the calendar every year. It's not like a maybe should we where will we? It's like it's happening.

Yeah, And if you can't go away, you could use this for other things, like you could just go on like a group shopping spirit. You could just go to Mecca together. You know, like it doesn't do you know how fun would that be to be like free money shopping spree day. Yeah. So there's lots of ways you could use and I just think everyone should do it. I'm setting one up immediately.

After the break. We have got recommendations for your weekend and the most fun homework anyone will ever give you ever.

One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum and MEA subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week. And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.

Vibes, I Yah, Atmosphereping, Casualping fun.

This is my best recommendation.

It's Friday, so we want to help set up your weekend with our very best recommendations, Stacy, why don't you go first?

Okay, I will. I'm busting to talk about this one. I want to recommend a show that I feel like has flown under the radar. So I don't know whether you'll have seen it, but I love it as much as I love Friends, and that's a big call. I think it should be at that level. It's Shrinking.

Oh, I love Shrinking.

It's good.

Yeah, okay, with Paris and Ford and yes, singy. What's his name, Jason?

Yes, Jason's Paris and Ford Jason Siegel. And it's written by my imaginary boyfriend, maybe yours too, Holly. In a weird crossover of our generations. Brett Goldstein, who plays Roy Kent on Ted Lasso, he wrote this show.

Why it's so good?

It's brilliant, and he actually comes in as a cameo. You'll have to look out.

And it's about because I've seen a little bit of it. It's really warm.

It's like a kettle.

Someone's a psychologists.

All three of the main characters are psychologists that work in the same practice, but it's a kind of about their personal lives once they walk out of those sessions.

What's on your mind today?

Like, I want to change, but I'm not particularly open to make those changes.

I'm trying. Every time I get rid of one compulsion, another compulsion comes up.

Are you yawning right now? Spoiler alert? I feel like I'm stuck, right How does that make you feel?

Jimmy, where's it's three in the morning?

I'm sorry?

What's in that bull?

Pencils?

The other bull? Maybe some painkillers? Maybe there's painkillers in there. Yeah, And it's very fun and warm, but it's also a bit dark, like Jason Siegel's character has lost his wife and is dealing with the loss of his wife and like parenting his teenage daughter through that while he's struggling himself.

And where do you watch it?

It's on Apple. Yeah, two seasons out now and season three will come out later in the year.

We watched season one and I loved it, and then I think I watched like a couple of season two. But then you know when shows just fall off your radar for no good reason, So you've reminded me that's really good. So there's a whole second season.

Yeah, second season, and then third will drop soon. So yeah, it came back on to my radar. I'm now obsessed and keep telling everyone to watch it.

Holly, how about you? What's your wraco?

I have a self serving reco this week because Mid is back, which is the other podcast that I do, which is Conversations for gen X women who are anything but Mid because obviously we're not mad at all. That's the joke of the titles. Clever Anyway. Anyway, we have come back with six new episodes, and we've got six conversations with really kick ass guests, and some of them are really sad, and some of them are really funny,

Podcast, we talked about her on out Loud, Yes we did.

We talked about her on out Loud because she basically busted all these sort of myths that have been out there about women and exercise. And she says that you know, so much of everything we just take for granted, and the advice we take, whether it's all the way from intimittent fasting to cold plunging to this to that might not be harmful or whatever, but all the experimentation on it's been done by men. It's mind boggling really when

I really really like her. I could listen to her talk all day. My recommendation is something a bit different. So I have been house sitting at me as well. She's been away this perks Perks perks pecs and I came into work the other day and I said, guys, I have terrible news, and that is that I have believed for my whole life that expensive hair care is a ruse. Is absolute, like you don't need the fancy stuff you need your just supermarket.

Yeah.

Someone told me that once and I've lived by it, right, and so she.

Used to tell everybody that I used to say cheap shampoos that go.

Yeah, yeah, so this is right. I have been using like the hairspray with the fifteen percent extra that you get that's basically just chemicals. I've been using that forever. Anyway, I go to MEAs and the woman, if you want to know what her current hyperfixation is is hair care. Because I walked in and went, wow, there are a lot of products right just for everything.

And they are the ones who's left behind.

They're the ones left behind.

I don't know what she's taken, but I was like, okay, well she'd want me to use it, and she would. I had Claire's book launch the other week and I kind of did a little luck hurly my hair and I was like, what shall we use? And I thought, oh, look, Kevin Murphy, there we go. I'll treat myself and I'll use it. Kevin Murphy called bedroom hair and I used it lovely smell and is.

It like astrising spray?

And I recognized the smell because I went, oh, this is what when I've had my hair done for TV and stuff, this is what they've used, so it must be really good. And I went and I was like it didn't have the crunchy and I always have the crunchy thing and then I kind of brush it out and it falls and whatever. But I was like, Oh, this is holding really really well. And then I went to bed that night work up Victoria's Secret Angel. I was like, amazing. And I came to work and I

So And do do you have to use a lot to make it happen?

Oh?

No, like a.

Tiny little beer And it's like you wouldn't even need it on a curl, but like even if you were just doing the front of your hair and you wanted to kind of get a little bit of volumeizing or something. It's it's really good. And I've also been doing I had to wear a white shirt the other night and I had foundation on and I used me as hair spray trick because she says you have to spray hair spray on your collar so that you don't get makeup

I love it amazing. Or a homework, homework, homework, Oh yes, our homework out louders. This won't be any surprise coming from me. But the Victoria Beckham documentary is out on Netflix now and we are dying to talk about it. But we want you to all have watched it so that we can talk about it together.

You haven't even watched it, and you've come in with theories about radical acceptance.

Radical acceptance. I've told you all about it. This is what we'll be talking about next week. Friends, about you any money? Anyway? You need to go and watch the Victoria Beckham documentary so that we can all hold hands and talk about it together next week. You know it's going to make my week.

I could just We're giving you a whole weekend like you got time.

I'm excited.

A massive thank you to all of you out louders for being with us here on today's show and for being with us all week, and to our fabulous team for helping us put it together. Read this out, won't you?

Our group executive producer is Ruth Devine, executive producer is Sashatanic, our senior audio producer is Leah.

Porges, video producer is Josh Green, and our junior content producers are Coco and Tessa.

Friends. Are you in the squeeze stage of life? On Parenting out Loud? This week, Mon's Amelia and Stacy are back with a new episode that asks that question and many more. Remember Parenting out Loud drops every Saturday morning. It's in its own feed. You can find it by searching Parenting out Loud and then tapping follow so you never miss an episode of the smart parenting Chat.

Bye.

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