The Exact Age A "Hot Mess" Is No Longer Cute

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Like I know that your twenties are for being a hot mess, I did sort of assume that by your forties and fifties you don't feel like a hot mess anymore?

Am I riter?

Am I? No, you feel hot?

Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia Out Loud and to our Friday show, where we lean into our toxic selfish sides, shut out the world, and practice self care. No news here today, friends, Today It's Friday, the fourteenth of February, which I think is an auspicious date of some kind. I'm here ring a bell, I'm here with my valentines.

I am Holly Wayne right, I'm mea Friedman.

And I'm Jesse Stevens. And can I ask you, guys something that's been playing on my mind. It's a very specific dilemma that I had. Okay, the other day I had a dentist appointment booked for after work, and I was speaking to my husband, who works here, and I thought, I got to go to the dentist stuff to work, and he said, did you bring your toothbrush, and I said no, and he said, you wouldn't go to the dentist without brushing your teeth first, because obviously I'd brushed my teeth ate hot.

But had you eaten anything after that?

Eat breakfast, luncheon, smack everything.

And then my appointment was at say five point thirty. He was horrified that I was going to raw dog the dentist with unbrushed teeth.

How's can the dentist even see anything?

I have never brushed my teeth before. I've got to the d with you that what's supposed to happen? They clean your teeth, don't.

They don't like is it respect?

I wrensed my mouth with some I'm like, I'm not going in there with like coffee breather, big bits of green sticking.

Out, Like is it like having a shower before perhaps me?

Yeah?

What what?

Holly HOLLI fanny after the gym, because you you might have.

To rock up from the gym. But if I'm past straight into the stirrups.

If my peraps appointment was like at eleven and I'd had my shower at seven, I'm not gonna have another one before I go.

No, no, no, no, but you wouldn't book it for eight pm after ante.

No, I think we have it. We like it. Had to have our paps mews in the morning because we're consider it. But also we brush our teeth before we go to the dentist, and we wear nice Sundays when we go for our paps mere and then we fold them and put them under our clothes.

We wash our hair before the hair dress.

Oh yeah, no, they wash your hair. That's the poio. You have to make sure you do this.

That's the king. Shake the knits out of your hair before you come to the hair dress.

I want I want out loud a dentists to go. You know what, this is a great Can you please brush your teeth? Your dirty bitches?

Order order or restored to the Mama Mere Out Loud Friday shows.

Some things we're just understood.

Okay. On the show today, Bridget Jones is back. But why do we struggle with hot mess women when bumbling and burning the spaghetti is no longer cute? Plus, Mia and Jesse have brilliant books to recommend, and I have a TV self soothing classic and best and words of the week, including red Carpets, Tantrums, and the Bunning Sausage Isle. No, those things didn't all happen at the same time. But first, Mia Friedman.

What type of bread are you? In case you missed it, I know you're about to answer.

I've thought about it a lot.

In case you missed it, every star sign is a particular type of bread, and since bread is my favorite food group and I am the bread correspondent on this podcast, I'm here for it, or at least I was here for it until I found out which one I was. We came across a post by an account called Zodiac's Tea, which sounds totally legitimate, and it basically divides all star signs into breads. I'm going to start with mine, okay, And the problem is I can't pronounce it, and that's

Oh my god, it sounds right, it sounds right. It would be the founcy bread, you know, the poodle bread.

You know that Holly and I are the same star sign. What would you get? I would go wonder white.

We're the opposite of because your basic bitches. I would say that you are both wonder white, but not with extra fiber, just no straight, not particularly fixed, sliced, just almost on sale, almost no frills. Sagittarius, you are nut and seed bread. You are always on the go, adventurous maximalists at heart, into wellness culture, bold, nutty, and unpredictable.

It knows I like Gwyneth bread knows I like Gwene.

That doesn't sound like either of you.

Into wellness culture follows Goop Instagram.

Throw Throw a couple of other star signs at me, and I'll tell you what Taurus. Taurus is sourdough, which is actually my favorite. That's my favorite too, crisp, solid, high maintenance and has a rustic charm.

I have a few leos in my family. Garlic bread, yes, oh, I like that.

They can't help the popular, can't help it. They're popular, indulgent loves herbs, stands out at parties or large gatherings.

Many of my important people are Geminis, Maya and he Geminis.

That Gemini is lemon blueberry bread, which frankly sounds like cake.

Everybody's got exciting bread except for me and you. We've got the bread that everybody hates.

Yeah, that's good for your bad yea that you have.

To eat it when the doctor's told you to.

Geminis and lemon blueberry bread bright stimulating. With them, you get the best of both worlds. They're never dull and especial shout out to poor scorpios who are pumpin nicole, sweet but also dark, hard to digest and an acquiet taste, but also nostalgic.

Is this what happens when the news cycle is like this? What spread?

Am I?

Yeah? Because that seems like I can digest that.

For everyone else, we are going to put your bread up on the mummy out loud Instagram and let us know, let us know if it is correct for you.

So, so.

You stay at your parents for New Year?

Yes?

Yeah?

Oh no, no no no, it's in London at a party last night.

So I'm afraid I'm a bit hungover. Or she could be lying with my head and a toilet that I call normal people.

There are some female fictional characters who are just part of the culture at this point, and one of them is Bridget Jones, who is back this week in the fourth film. It's called Mad About the Boy. We kind of talked about it when the trailer came out. She's widowed, she's got two primary school edged kids.

Mister Darcy died, and that's not a spoiler because it's even in the trailer. It is.

It's in the trailer, and it happens very early on, well, the acknowledgment of it does. It's actually quite sad anyway, and then maybe predictably for twenty twenty five, she has a fling with a younger guy who's that hot one from White Lotus, and then other things happen. We won't spoil it for you anyway. Bridget Jones traitor, as anti feminist, hopeless, romantic, bumbling, bombshell. All these tags are fair calls for the character the

But all the same, she was a hot mess. She was very much a hot That's what was refreshing because I think female characters predominantly, particularly in rom comms, had all been very perfect, kind of like Julia Roberts style.

She'd been contrasted to the Sally in When Harry Home in terms of being very neat and ordered, and like we've talked on the show before about the difference between a poodle and a wolf. There's kind of these categories of women where a poodle is a woman who appears to have it all together.

Maya, I'm a poodle, You're actually a poodle, ya.

It's like interested in clothes and maybe you're better at being a woman. And then there's the wolf, which is Holly and I which is sometimes we've only got one earring on, got stains on our clothes, our hair always needs a brush, that kind of thing, and most of what was in rom comms was the poodle, and I think Bridget came along was like.

And women loved her because she was honest. She worried about the size of her ass, she worried about how much she was drinking and smoking. She was attracted to the wrong men. She always felt like she was out of step with the poodles, Jesse, the neat, picture perfect couple and families all around her.

And she was also portrayed as being overweight when you look back at it and realize where a lot of our body dysmorphia came from as gen x because.

She ten in slight defense in the book, that was really refreshing because it was just real, you know now, And you'll notice in the new movies, and particularly this new one, there is absolutely no mention of weight, as there shouldn't be. But in a way, we've just airbrushed that conversation out because it is a conversation women have all the time anyway. It was an era of exploring

I've had to really check myself on this because when I saw the film, and it was so lovely to spend time with those characters Hugh Grant in particular, You're right, it was emotional to see that glimpse of mister Darcy and see Bridget again, and it was lovely, like spending

Do you think that it's because for thirty years we've had this Bridget Jones character, but in a culture that is so drowning in the Internet, it doesn't look subversive anymore because the idea of like a young woman being a diarist, letting us into her life and sharing her day to day worries like welcome to TikTok every woman is now Bridget Jones, and now there's real currency in performing your hot messness, and it's become a trope both in literature and TV, but it's also all over all

It does. But to your point about how it's not subversive anymore when you think about it, that's so great because it shouldn't be. Bridget Jones, the books are thirty years old, and if nothing had changed for women in thirty years, we would be, you know, not very happy about that. So I think it's fantastic that what was once groundbreaking is now it should feel passe and it

I look at it and go and I see a lot of criticisms of this, and I find them a little bit frustrating because I'm like, try and write a female character in a novel, and you kind of need her to be this, like you need her to be undone, especially now, I suppose.

Because that's her relatability.

It's her relatability, but it's also how things go wrong, Like you can't have a woman who's functioning. A functioning woman a novel does not make.

But to be honest, you can't have a functioning anybody. Because one of the things that's interesting about this is that we're a bit irritated by Bridget's hot messness because we're like, come on, dal you should have figured out by now how to boil spaghetti. But then Hugh Grant walks in. He hasn't changed either, and no probably would he have done. He's still like, oh, you naughty little minx and all that kind of stuff, and we're all like, swoon, love it.

So I think that there's a dichotomy between the two ways that women can be portrayed is either completely perfect or a complete disaster. And we see it with influences, we see it with characters in movies and TV shows, and I sort of feel like I don't want to buy either of those. I don't want to be just a hot mess and I don't want to have to be perfect. Where's the room for the middle?

Yeah, and I feel like this trope. I remember a few years ago watching a show and just going if I see another woman tripover, I'm aa lose it.

Because women Jennifer Lawrence was the coolest girl in the world, and she fell over every time she was in public. Yes, Now, was that a deliberate strategy because that played into this trope, Like, you know, I don't belong here, I'm a bit of an interloper. I'm not poised or is that just what a lot of us are like? We are self conscious, not very poised, not very.

Perfect, which is interesting to see, I suppose. But at the same time, it's like, if you keep falling over, I think you have an inner air affection and you need to get that.

So don't you think that to not be attacked, women have to lead with their vulnerability. Like we talk about the number of podcasts hosted by women talking about their failures, and the number of books talking about their failures and their fuck ups, which is a sort of a trope

And there's it expressing a basic truth that we all, even the most poised and organized amongst us women, we never feel like we're living up to the ideal. So we always feel a bit grossed out by ourselves. And I might have a period stayed on the back of my skirt, I might smell, I might whatever. Like the insecurities about our femaleness are always there and kind except.

When we're going to the dentist and we don't think about brushing our teeth.

I kind of assumed, like, I know that your twenties are for being a hot mess. We've got scope, and there is something kind of cute about it. I did sort of assume that by your forties and fifties, you don't feel like a hot mess anymore?

Am I right?

Or am iment you feel hot?

I feel like a hot mess? Who is better at knowing which bits of that matter? On which bits of it? Don't you know what I mean? Like, I think that if you can't boil spaghetti and you've got a family to feed, like, that's probably like something you should sort out. If you keep falling over the ear infection, probably something you should sort out. Most of us have to have our shit together to the point where we're paying our bills and turning up to work and doing all those things.

Diagnos follows has that completely.

That's a sub episode theory. You're allowed to be a hot mess until you have kids. So I think that what we don't like is watching a woman still be chaotic, have her actions impact other people, sort of be driven by the whims of whatever she feels like.

It feels irresponsible, It.

Feels irresponsible, and it feels like, well, you're now in charge of the development of another person, and mothers are not allowed to be a hot.

One hundred percent, And it's interesting because what you talked about before about the influencers who and you know me, you were one of these people in the groundbreaking early days of Mama Mia of going like, it looks like my life looks like this, but actually sometimes are meeting musically in the shower or whatever it was that you're doing. But like the people who are doing that now, yes it's relatable, but they also get a lot of criticism. There are a lot of people who are like, I

Must say, sometimes I see it and I'm like, I live in a house.

It's a mess.

Like I don't need to see your messy house too. I actually find it's not good for my nervousness.

Do you know? What I think is very hard from a TV or a character point of view is growing up characters in fiction. So we saw Within just like that where those characters, just like Bridget Joones, went from their thirties to their fifties, and we wanted the characters

With the genre. I suppose it's like what we want from our literature or our movies is that you have kind of this arc where then they kiss and it's all perfect. Like our movies are kind of like we have a conclusion and things are solved. But with Bridget and with Carrie, another obstacle comes, which is actually how life is, like.

Carriage didn't change, and we didn't like that either. So carry we were like, oh, it's not that cute talking about shoes when you're in your fifties, and I think being so ditzy.

Yes, But it's interesting because in real life, we know a million women who blow up their lives when they're fifty, you know, who decide to leave a marriage, change their career, who are confused about the way the world is now and what words to use and all those things. So I think that we're comfortable with women's stories ending with the ring on the finger, you know what I mean, Like that's that then, you know, including Bridget Jones in

I have a question is there such thing as a man hot mess? Because I keep trying to conjure an image in my mind and I can't think of what a male mess would look.

You know, there was that time in the nineties and noughties where we loved a schlubby guy, you know what I mean. All the rom com leads tended to be.

He's always very relaxed, like watching video games and like playing video games and eating shit and not getting it together.

And they were always intimidated by the muscle bros. Yeah yeah, but that was a trope in itself, and then they always managed to somehow get the Taipei beautiful model girlfriend.

Yeah, true, true, I guess I just didn't feel like they were comparing themselves to some ideal of masculinity and always letting themselves down in the way that we do with women.

It was one of the challenges that we had, and you were in those writing rooms for Strife with the character of Evelyn, because we wanted to show those two things. We wanted to show her being incredibly capable but also being a hot mess, and we wanted to flip it. Sometimes she was a hot mess at work, sometimes she was a hot mess at home. Sometimes she was really capable at home, sometimes she was capable. Because I do

There's a really excellent discussion in the latest season of The Diplomat. You know, the whole character shortcut for Carrie russell character in that is that she doesn't brush her hair and she doesn't care about clothes, so she always looks kind of amazing, but she's always wearing a very boring suit. She has messy hair.

And her eyeline is a bit smud.

Yeah, and in this particular scene, her pant button had broken, so she had a safety pin. And then she meets the Vice President of the US who's played by Alison Janny and basically Alison Janny tells her this is not cute anymore, Like you think this is cute, but she said, if you can't figure out a way to do up your pants, how people supposed to trust you with the nuclear codes? And you're like.

Yes out loud. As after the break, we have got recommendations for your weekend and they're great.

Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

This is my best recommendation. It's Friday, so we want to help set up your weekend with our best recommendations. Jesse, you go first.

You've got a book I do.

I've heard about this, but I haven't read it.

What is it?

A blue banger that everyone needs to read? I'd had it recommended in eleven different places. Finally started reading. It is called The Wedding People. It's by Alison S. Pack and what I love about it is that it is really pacy, so you'll be totally in it, but it also makes you feel smarter, like how does it start?

Because I think I started and then stopped.

Okay, So it starts with a woman named Phoebe who turns up at a hotel for a night, right, And she's all dressed up in this fancy dress, and you kind of don't know why she turns up at this hotel.

It's very clever setting books. I read another book that was set at a wedding called The Unwedding, which I didn't love, so I'll have to give this a go. It's clever because weddings are like the distillation of so many interesting family dynamics, and they're drama.

They're always drama.

It's a New York Times bestseller. It was one of the biggest books of last year. You have to read it.

Who I promise I have read some books lately, but I am going to instead recommend a very sole, nourishing TV show to the five people who are not yet watching this one. We know we've been talking a lot lately about how we're getting through a very negative news cycle, how we're self regulating. A founder new trick, and it is Mustard Dogs on the ABC. These dogs put themselves on the line to do a job for us every day.

These are working dogs and they're very smart.

So the first time we'll be comparing collies to kelpies, I felt this is going to be a stitch uppy.

I've got a special delivery for you. Oh you know, Minn.

I hope that you get to love him.

As much as I do.

Oh my goodness, he's divine.

I think she's just done away on your shirts.

What's that show actually about?

So it's been going for a while, it's not a new show. Season three has just dropped, right, which is why it's back in the zeitgeist. But it is literally a very well made documentary slash reality show about little mustard dog puppies growing up and learning how to hurt sheep and cows.

It's mads but for dogs.

So what they do is it cast? Well? Oh so well? So what they do as back, I've learned a lot. Right in the first one, you know this kelpie and you're like, oh, you know how kelpies? They look like kelpies. This kelpie has a little of puppies that can sell for thirty five thousand dollars each, right, because they've got this lineage of incredible herding capabilities. Like, yeah, if I take Tuna, who is a pound mutt, and I try and teach her to muster cattle, probably not going to work.

Right, it's a little bit like married at first.

It's a lot like that.

I should write recaps on the site.

But you know, the thing is is this show's been around for it since twenty twenty two and I'd never really watched it. But then, as I say, I've been on a hunt for self soothing TV and for whatever reason, I turned it on it. They're all on iView and the first one I just immediately was like yes please, and I watched all of it. Then I've started watching

Oh my goodness, Holly, oh my goodness, how can you stand it?

Lisa Milaner rates, there's aware are they now? It's very satisfying shrint.

In the book. It's brilliant because it's like really interesting but low steaks, you know what I mean?

The people. You know, if you're a city person and I'm sort of country adjacent now, but like it's a world you don't know about, right, and I'm always interested in that. So these people are really great talent, like the people who they get the farmers. There are women, and there are people from different backgrounds, old people, young people, whatever, and they're really good at what they do. Very capable people,

And anyway that's a dog would like her.

It just won Best Australian Reality Show at the Actor Awards last week. All the Muster Dog people were very excited got up from stage. Dog's there I was sad, Oh, well, that's fulshit. I have got a recommendation that relates to my hyper fixation at the moment about Carol and Bessett Kennedy. It's not a new hyper fixation. She was the wife of JFK Jr. He was one of the good Kennedy's. He was a first cousin to RFK Jr. Who is now the Health Secretary of the US. But I won't

Like as a fashion person. She worked for Calvin Klein, didn't she.

Yeah, And she never never gave it in to you, never really spoke, And so every photo of her that you would look at now would look contemporary. Her clothes, to hair, her makeup, it doesn't look like something from the nineties. It's just lasted the test of time. Her wedding photo, her wedding she changed the whole wedding industry because she like a slip dress, silk slip dress, which was very in fashion at the time it was the nineties, but no one had ever worn it as a wedding dress.

I went to the JFK Museum when I was in the US. They have a lot of her clothes there, do they? You should go have a looks.

Yes. So anyway, there's this book it's called Once Upon a Time, The Captivating Life of Carolyn Bessett Kennedy, And what I'm doing is that I've got it on my kindle, but I'm also if you're a Premium Spotify member, you get a lot of audiobooks for free. I'm also listening to it, so sometimes I'm listening to it, sometimes I'm reading it, and I've also got a coffee table book about her outfits, which I'm flicking through while i'm listening.

My question is, because my sense of her is fashion icon, right, Yeah, does it actually tell you who she was? Because no one ever talks about who she was, what she was like, what she was interested in, what her interior life was. Was she this? They just talked about what she looked.

Like exactly, and that's what this is. I think there's more interest in her now as a person, and there's not a huge amount to go on because she was private, was private, deeply private, and this really fleshed her out. Part of her problem is she just wanted a quiet, private life and this public glare. She was very much a people person. It drove her into being a recluse like Diana, like similar treatment to what we saw of Meghan as well. So yeah, I'm really loving that book.

After the break, a tantrum, a pantry disaster, and a fashion crisis. It is our best and Worst of the week one unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mama Maya subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week. And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers. It's time for Best and Worst. This is a part of the show where we share a little bit from our personal lives. Holly, what was your worst?

This might seem like little thing, but it's not a little thing, because it's like two million little things that are ruining my life. We have an infestation of pantry mots. We don't have a pantry. The mots are living in the cupboards. They are cupboard mots, right, I started with one or two. They're like, well, I think that's where they come from.

Wells, little brown moths?

Right, one or two? No, biggie, right, you go. That's annoying. Suddenly you open the cupboard and like the locusts are coming out, They're dropping in the food, They're everywhere else. So we have tried everything. Of course, I googled. I'm not an idiot. I googled so empty out the cupboards, throw out all the food that looks like maybe the mots have got into it. Wipe down with vinegar, set some traps, go to Bunnings, buy some traps, set some traps. But did all that?

What are the traps just sticky?

They're like little sticky things. And I was like, job done. Those mophos are gone. Get up the next day, go into the kitchen. They're back. They're dropping from everything. I was throwing to Billy on the phone last night. He's like, no, there's some mots in my milk. Like he's just trying. There's just gods everywhere. They are driving us crazy. It's so funny because Brent has got very involved and like it's almost taking it personally at war. He's like, we have to go up.

In the roof.

We have to put down purst bonds we have. It's like we're going to the whole house in vinegar. Like this is just what's going to happen. Nothing is working out. Louders. If you know things, I know, you know things. Tell me.

Luca waged war on the slugs in our courtyard, and that was I was getting updates a lot of us six seven times a day, and I was like, I don't give a shit about slugs.

The moth's really annoying.

We've got cockroaches.

If that's also bad, isn't it? Yeah, Billy, Oh my god, he freaks out. It's really unfortunate because you know, you see one and you're like better, just.

Yeah, freaks out.

My best. I have to actually thank all the out louders for their support when I shared my book cover and my pre order the other day on Friday, my new novel is available for pre order, and lots about louders supported that, and I'm so appreciative, and don't worry, you'll be hearing lots about that in the weeks to come. But my actual best is that on Sunday we went into the Bunning Sausage Sizzle for the school for my kid's school, you know, a fundraiser, Yeah, and you were.

No, I'm sad when they get no one is sad.

And it's really interesting because I'm nosy obviously people person, I'm like, what time of day is it acceptable to have a sausage when you come out of Bunnings? And we were there from like nine till twelve or whatever. Anytime, any time of day is acceptable for a sausage or four Actually, as it turns out, really enjoyed. It raised lots of money for the school. Yeah. Then I got to go upstairs and buy loads of things to the garden. Perfect Sunday activity.

Maya. What was your worst?

My word? So I want to start with my best because it's related. My best was actually going to the actors. They've got a long name, but basically they're the cinema and the TV and the Arts Awards for the arts in Australia. It's fine and there's some letters. It's aactas Strife was nominated for Best Comedy and Ash was nominated for Lead Actress in a comedy and also a drama for Fake and it was just lovely. It was up on the Gold Coast.

You saw lots of famous people.

It was so interesting. So we were staying at this hotel called the Langham and not only were there all the famous people who were up there for the awards and it was hosted by Russell Crowe and it was just all these people, but all the big Hollywood stars who shoot movies on the Gold Coast like live there, so they like get put up by the studios for

She's got dress, going to look her out.

Vampire Dara's twenty seven million followers, and I just was like, it's Nina from Breakfast. But it was just so lovely, and I had some really lovely conversations with really interesting women, particularly women in my own age, Imagen Banks, who was an amazing producer, Jane Kennedy, who was there because Working Dog got a whole lot of awards Auster of course. And I just had a lovely, lovely time and it was fun. My worst two worst.

The first is.

That someone from the Actors accidentally posted the night before the Tiles congratulating the winners on their Instagram account for three categories, including ours. Right, so you knew, we knew that we'd lost the night before, did.

You were you attempted to like just turn around and come home. Well, that's too much investment.

Of the Strife people who hadn't gone on the plane yet, and so we were going to go, you know what. But it ended up being fun and fine anyway, and I did feel sorry for whoever that poor person was. We lost to fisk. We actually thought we were going to lose to callin from accounts, but we lost a fisk, which is a terrific Thanks for your support.

I love Strife. Too.

Robbie Williams performed. Robbie Williams walked past Robbie Williams and Russell Krust. He sang angels. It was beautiful. He's so cool. His film Better Man, where he's played by Chimp, it won something. And he got up and he did a speech after the director and he pulled out this big piece of paper and he goes, I'd like to thank drugs, alcohol, addiction, ADHD, body dysmorphia, crippling and security. Without all of these things, I wouldn't have had a career.

He's very I also feel like he could be part of your wardrobe inspiration.

With a beautiful brooch. My worst, because I'm a relatable queen, is that I can't find my red carpet style. Please tell me, And I need to find my red carpet.

Style because you you because so much shit on people on the red carpet, Taylor needs to evolve her red carpet style. Well, what's your style?

I can't find it. So for those who lived through my Logi's wardrobe drama, when I tried on forty things in the hour before I was due to be on the carpet, as they say, as we say. I think it's because it's not like I'm there so much as a d list hanger on that it feels ridiculous to go all out. And as you know, also, red carpet dressing is my least favorite because it's just not that interesting. And I loved looking at everyone else and people looked so great and so amazing. I ended up buying a

I thought you looked amazing, but it didn't. It was quite fitted, which is very rough.

It was a red carpetress or a suit person, I think so too. And I saw Sarachella, who's the writer on Stripe. She was wearing this like suit and she looked really cool, and I just thought, I've got to find yeah, And then someone said they were in the added ours shop and added us have done a ball gown and I'm thinking of investigating that.

Oh my god, can.

You please post what you wore on the mummya out loud Instagram?

So I'll also post what I didn't wear the dress that I.

Took back, so they added us ballgann Yeah, I'll put it all up.

My worst is that we have entered Look, we probably have a while ago, but I think we've entered into our tantra mirror. The other night we got home, we had a bit of a meltdown.

This is you, is it?

Yeah? Yeah, exactly right. It was just a really overwhelming day. Luna cried and you know, when you know they're fine, it's like there's no pain, there's not nothing that she wants. But she just cried for an hour. And when we finally got her to calm down, you know, when your nervous system just feels so assaulted, it was like, I don't think I've taken a breath in an hour. It's like so confronting because.

It feels also awful on the inside of that tantrum.

Yeah.

I know, yes, system, he likes to.

Have them, but it's so true about your nervous system. This is something br and I talk about a lot, is that even as the kids get bigger, but like you can walk away from one of those incidents, but you don't actually decompress from it. No ages, and you have to figure out what.

To do with that exactly exactly.

That's what the whole emotional regulation thing is.

Yeah, yeah, and my best has been we discovered I can't believe it took a system.

I have one more question about tantrum. Yes, has there been a public one yet? That's particularly fun.

You know what's not great is the leaving the park. There's been a few instances of leaving the park and there's kicking and all that kind of stuff.

And what's my favorite part of the park.

When you've got a little baby, you know how there's that stage where sometimes I just cry all day. Right, that's one thing. But when they get a bit older, they're so strong that they can thrash. I find that a lot harder. There was a tantrum in the doctor the other day. Actually, we're she totally lost it and you're just like, what do you do like it? Because you can't wrangle no, no, exactly, You've just got to cop it and be the mum walking down the street

True. Put them in water really good back to emotional regulation. If you's got a kid who struggles with that, put them in water is a very good piece of advice.

Yeah, Mum has said that. It like three ten eaching and stuff. Sometimes it's literally running a tap and sometimes she'll put Luna's little hands under the tap or something and it just it really helps it like calms and focuses them. And so seeing her runner, she's in a totally different mood when we get back from the water fountains. So that has just been because she's at that.

Age where she wants to get out of the house.

Yeah, climbing the walls. So you've got to find activities that aren't just swing.

So many activities out loud as. That is it from us on this Friday, and indeed for our week a Mamma Mia out loud as. Always, a massive thank you to you for being here with us. Read this out, Jesse and Miya.

A big thank you to our team group executive producer Ruth Devine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis.

Our audio producer is Leah Porgies, and video producer Josh Green, who is a fellow Libra and he's also a queen arman in the bread department.

I can't believe that our m is a Scorpio.

Now.

I don't mean throw any shade at scorpio's but I always think of scorpios as being quite like stingy, and em is not stingy at all.

Do you mean stingy?

No, Like I mean like they've got a sting in that tale, a stinger like they're pretty good with outing. She's compl but I'm going to dispute it anyway.

Hard to digest out louders, we're still here, and if you want to hear more from us and you aren't ready to say goodbye, we were going to leave you with a bit of our conversation we had on the subscriber episode about how we are managing self care when we've had a year's worth of news in February alone. So if you're feeling exhausted, we are too. Have a listen to this, and if you want to hear the full episode, there's a link in the show notes out Louders.