You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to Mama Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the eleventh of September. I'm Holly Wainwright.
I'm Mea Friedman, and I'm recording remotely today in case I sound a little bit different to normal, because I'm on the road doing our and your upfronts where we talk about all the exciting things we've got coming up at Mamma Mia next year to all out advertisers. But there was no way I was going to miss weighing in on this episode. Between the Kate Middleton video and the debate, I'm all in.
That's one of the biggest episodes of the year.
I think.
I am Jesse Stevens.
And on the show today, as Maya has alluded to Trump, Paris, Dogs and Cats and Taylor, we watched the first and probably only US presidential debate so that you don't have to. Also, the very happy announcement sees William and Kate take a pr pivot straight out of the Harry and Meghan playbook, and it looks like the social media band that kids is actually going to happen. Should we be celebrating or panicking? But first, Jesse Stevens.
In case you missed it, there is a photo circulating of Matt Damon and Jennifer Lopez that I will argue is one of the most iconic images of our lifetime.
I agree with you, Jesse, I agree with you. I was so excited when I saw that. Our group chat immediately, I'm like, look at this.
This week, Damon and Lopez appeared on the red carpet for the premiere of Unstoppable at the Toronto International Film.
First, can we talk about what she was wearing?
Yes, Mea, obviously, that is the first point on the agenda.
Okay, thank you.
We should say that the film was made by Damon as production company, it stars Lopez.
I want to that's why he was there.
Maya. You have to let the woman give some context to wear this image.
Of all time unpacked the dress.
Please, it is the best revenge dress since Diana's dress that she wore On the night that Charles's interview went to air, where he talked about his relationship with Camille. I remember she wore that navy blue dress. We just saw it replicated on the crown with Elizabeth Tickie anyway, on the red carpet. I just could talk about this for a long time. She was wearing this dress. It was clear she was naked underneath because it had like these bows all the way down. It'll become one of
the most iconic dresses, I think. But what's really interesting about it that only real experts will have noticed, is that it very clearly showed the place on her body under her left breast where she had matching tattoos with Ben. She's had it removed.
I wouldn't correct you, but it's her right breast.
No, I think it's her left.
It is her right breast. Now, do you want to describe.
The tattoo anyway? I can't remember what it was. It was some symbol and it's not there anymore. Is the most important thing to take away from this whole conversation? Anyway, continue he covered it up with makeup.
She did, and it was an infinity symbol with Jennifer and Ben written and it was covered up. And it appears that she did wear that dress so that she could cover up her tattoo. Now to the photo.
I love that.
At the after party, Damon and Lopez were photographed deep in conversation. They are holding hands, Lopez appears to be talking, and Damon has his head bowed as though to say, I've been talking about this fucking relationship for twenty years and I have had enough.
I think we've all been Matt Damon in that photo.
Yes we have.
I want I've been both the people in that photo.
I want Holly to lip read this still image. Holly, what are they saying? Because some are saying that they're praying together because they have their heads. That is obviously incorrect.
I'll come on.
You know sometimes you have to do penance for your bad friends. Yeah, yeah, right, And he is in this photo. My lipreading take is he's like, I know, I'm sorry, he's a dick. What can I say? And she's like and another thing. He's like, I know, I'm sorry, I love him, but he's a dick. What can I say? And she just keeps going because she's had a champagne and she's like, I just there's another and he's like, I know, I'm sorry, he's a dick. What could I say? That's what I think.
Is happening may or what do you think they're saying to each other.
I think they're both someone who really loved Benefwick, and I think that you know when you love someone, but you also just watch them get in their own way. And he's obviously done something and behaved in a way that they're both really familiar with. And I think what's really important in all the sort of leaks, because of course she's caught so much heat for this breakup, including on this podcast about.
From you, I'd say Jesse and I have been defending her.
I was hoping we could gloss over that, but she has copped a lot of heat about and particularly on the internet also here, but about that she's too much, she was too hungry for attention, she suppose their life, And I think what's really clear is that that was obviously put out by his camp preemptively or maybe the just that's what we all thought because it's the way that everyone defaults to blaming the woman. But what's really interesting about after this breakup, she has been seen with
his kids. She clearly remains close and has a quarterial relationship with his ex wife because she's attended Jennifer Garner and Ben Affleck's kids events, which if they weren't close, it wouldn't happen. And now here she is holding hands almost in prayer with his best friend of his whole life. So clearly she's not the one that fault here.
I completely agree. I think he is definitely being a.
Part I think he's cheated, and he's back on the gear like that's what I think.
Please? Can I make it really clear that this is wild speculation and that none of us have any eye can I that's true?
The other thing I've been thinking when I'm seeing these images is I'm imagining text exchange between Ben and Matt, because now Ben's going, Matt, I have seen the photos and I need to know what you've discussed. And Matt said, you put me in that situation. I didn't want to be at the after party talking to a crying jin but you didn't come, and he's like, what did you say? And then they're going back and forth, back and forth. I think it's very uncomfortable between the two men right now.
It's great.
I'm sorry it's great, but it's great.
It is very well known that Donald Trump is weak and wrong. Nowhere in America is a woman carrying a pregnancy to term and asking for an abortion that is not happening. It's insulting to the women of America.
She was big on defund the police in Minnesota. She went out, I'm talking now, if you don't mind, please, does that sound familiar? I would say we would both leave this debate right now. I'd like to see her go down to Washington, DC during this debate because we're wasting a lot of time because it's been so bad, it's so ridiculous. And you know what, I give you a little secret. He hates her. He can't stand her.
In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats, they're eating the pets of the people that live there. And this is what's happening in our country and it's a shame.
I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's rallies because it's a really interesting thing to watch. You will see during the course of his rallies he talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter. He will talk about win Mills cause cancer. And what you will also notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom.
We're eating pets, we're executing babies, and Taylor Swift has entered the chat. Welcome to the presidential debate twenty four, the second this year, but with two well with one different candidate. We just walked into the studio. We haven't even had time to talk amongst ourselves. Jesse, how feeling.
I really enjoyed that debate. I felt as though at times I was watching a courtroom drama, and what we saw was Harris the prosecutor. I think her greatest strength, which I noticed within the first few minutes, was actually in her rebuttals, like she knew how to refute him, and it felt like there was a custodian of democracy, like there was a grown up in the room, like
there was someone that you could trust. Obviously, that's a completely biased view because I align with most of Harris's policies. I think it's notable that Trump didn't ever look in her direction. He was looking down kind of the camera and straight on, whereas when he was speaking, she was looking at him. And I think her facial expressions, I kept thinking about how much she would have practiced them and decided how she would respond. So there wasn't eye rolling,
there was anything that I thought was particularly denigrating. But there were moments where she laughed, which said a lot. And there was a lot of strategy in the way that she knew how to rile him up. She knew what buttons to press and where he might have had something strong to say. She knew that if he suggested that other world leaders were laughing at him, or people were leaving his rallies early, then he would get so stuck on that point that he would become undone. So
I thought it was masterful by her. And the analysis I heard before this debate was if we come out of this debate talking about Harris, then Trump won, and if we come out talking about Trump than Harris one. I actually disagree with that analysis. I think that people will be coming out of this talking about what Harris said, how she held herself. There are viral moments of her strengths, but also Trump's weakness.
Oh yeah, I don't know about that, because I think the most obvious easy headline is the eating cats and dogs. Yeah right, So the first thing that everybody on social media globbed onto was him saying that the thing that everybody needs to understand about that line, because it sounded like she'd provoked him and he'd gone off his head. Yeah, but they'd already said that. The Republicans have already been talking about this, this untrue story that illegal aliens are
stealing people's pets from backyards in Ohio and eating them. JD. Vance has tweeted about it, so they've tested that line. We need to remember this. This is one of the things I think it's so important with Trump is it's so easy to laugh at him, which he hates, so it's great to do that too. But in the first two minutes of that debate, I was nervous because you want to look at him, right, he looks weird. We all know that, his orange face. It's got to be deliberate.
He looks like somebody you want to look at. He says stupid things, he shouts him, and that actually makes him a formidable opponent because who you're looking at is who's got your attention, obviously. And I was worried at first because I thought she sounded a little unsure footed, but then she was just so good. But I think the things remember, while we're all lolling about cats and
dogs and stuff. Is they've chosen that for a reason, and they know that people, certain people will like that and hang on to it and roll with it.
And JD. Vance was on Twitter and even he has said, you know, this will probably end up being false, like he's acknowledged that it's probably false, and that is an old trope, really damaging racist trope about immigrants who eat animals, like it is so so racist. There is no factual findings, but the moment itself will be seen as a funny social media grab, which is when most people will probably be watching it. MAYA, what did you think?
I was worried at first. I thought that he looked composed. I thought he'd actually been sedated. I thought he looked healthy and composed. And I thought she looked worried, and she was nervous in the beginning. And I'm so annoyed that the abortion question was so early because she hadn't hit her stride yet, and I.
Thought she was brilliant.
I disagree.
I didn't because I thought she was fine, Like I meant, God, he's insane. But what I wanted her to say, because he always does this right, he talks about aborting babies, killing them after they're born. He talks about that, that's what the Democrats do, that's what Kamala does, and no one's ever really challenged him properly on that, and I think that. I mean, the little fact check by ther moderators was almost funny, where they were like.
There is no state in this country where it is legal to kill a baby after it's born.
But what I really wanted her to say was, mister Trump, are you okay? Are you unwell? Because you keep talking about executing babies like you are imagining this stuff. This is the stuff of terrible nightmares and delusions. I wanted her to go what I wanted through this whole thing about the dog eating and the babies and the all the crazy, because she needed to draw out the crazy in him, and I did. She did, but it was
sort of drip fed. So it's clear she knew that there were about six or seven things that she needed to say that would make him crazy, and every single one of them did, from crowd size to you know, his rallies, to saying that other leaders were disgusted. So she knew all of those things and she dropped them but what I wanted her to do was to build them. I wanted her to build them so that he would get more and more crazy, because I wanted her to
really go to his cognitive decline. He's marked by such a different yardstick than anyone else. I mean, we talked about Biden's cognitive decline, but the stuff that Donald's Trump says and has always said is actually nuts, like it's completely nuts, but it's just like, oh, yeah, that's just him. And I wanted her to really draw that line and
to start because he will be that. He is already the oldest ever candidate running for president, and I wanted her to start making that the story, his cognitive decline and he's crazy, so everyone people start questioning that.
I was deeply impressed because the context that we go into this debate with every headline, every US politics pod, every poll is like her honeymoon is over. She is shaky, she is on the back foot. People were really nervous about how she's going to perform because she's underestimated at every turn, that woman, And there's all this muttering all the time about how she's terrible off tellyprompter, she's not good on her feet. I actually thought she was great.
I agree with you Mia that in the very beginning, I was nervous. But for me, she hit her stride in that abortion discussion.
Yeah, the way that she basically said, women don't want this, women who you know have been raped or their baby is a product of Like, women do not want this. And she made a great point, which was that this is offensive to all women that you think we're walking around wanting abortions at nine months. I think her party line instead of going the crazy route, the thing that was repeated over and over again was he tells lies, he tells lies. So then when there was another one,
she just went kind of shrugged her shoulders. And when I told you he was going to lie, I told you he was going to lie. That seemed like the party line for me. But I want to go back to the very beginning and the significance of the hands Yes go com because they'd never met, that was going to be an important moment.
Also, the important context is in the Biden Trump debate, they didn't shake hands, they didn't acknowledge each other's existence, and we talked about it at the time. Actually, I hate that You've got to at least have the facade of some kind of civilized debate, and he didn't come out, but she made him do it.
She made him do it, which made her look strong. She initiated, he sort of didn't have a choice. I think it established a power dynamic within the debate. And there's you know, people who say that Trump's a bit of a germophobe and that he doesn't like handshakes have been a big thing to Trump throughout his presidency and you know, even this campaign period. So that to me was a very significant moment, and it just showed she
was presidential. I thought she was incredibly presidential from that moment onwards.
What did you think of the split screen? Who do you think won the split screen?
I think she did.
She did.
Every single meme that I've seen flying around is because you were talking about her facial expressions, Jesse, and that she was restrained. She was restrained. But that face that you're out of because you're right, mere, she didn't say it, but her face said it all the time. You're out of your mind. What are you talking about? You're crazy? That's what that face was, and that's what's going around the world at top speed, right now is like, this is the face I use when my ex partner says blah.
This is the face I use when my boss does blah. Like I think that's probably the best reaction she could have had, smiling looking at him like he's ridiculous, but
without school yard kind of level. She's very sparkly, right, you know how I said before one of the problems with Trump is even if you hate him, which you know clearly we all do and our allegiances are clear, and I apologize for that if anybody loves him out there, But even if you think he's a dangerous death pot, as I say, you can't really help but look at him. But there's something about her. When she's in her comfortable strides, she's very sparkly. Her eyes are twinkly, her smile is amazing.
My eye became more and more drawn to her as we went on.
She just came across as very very smart and like well qualified and all of the things that we knew she was. But I saw a prosecutor, which is what I think would have been the aim. I want to talk about a comment he made about the assassination, because he got one in there. He got one which was basically a jab at the Democrats, suggesting what was their fault they had something to answer for when it came to him getting shot in I think he said in the face, it was.
In the head, and I took a bullet to the head.
Yeah.
Now, Millennia Trump has released a video just in the last twenty four hours promoting a book that's about to come out, where she has fueled this conspiracy theory. So she's basically saying, there's more that you need to know. Do we think the Republicans are about to go full blown tinfoil hats? This was a Democrat job? Like, is that? Is that where we're heading?
Yeah?
Yes, Trump's people they lean into the conspiracy theories because they're very good for them, right, And I think that there's no accident that he said that in what appeared to be an offhand way, and it's twelve hours before Milani's video had been released. This is a new strategy for them.
HM.
Can we also talk about Taylor. I need to talk about Taylor and her press release following the debate.
Maya, how are you feeling about Taylor? There's no accident in the photos she chose to use in her endorsement, tell the people about it.
I'm very excited. My phone blew up just before we jumped on to record this. The timing of this is just so fascinating to me. So she put out quite a long statement at the end of the debate, and she referenced the debate. So again, this didn't happen by accident.
Tree Pain would have been all over it, and also Carmala's campaign would have been all over it, so they would have liaised about when is the most useful time if I'm going to endorse, when do you want that endorsement to be because it could be argued why is she pulling focus? And I think that this is what Carmala's campaign obviously wanted because she wouldn't have done it otherwise because she would have been accused of pulling focus?
Can I ask, though, Maya, do you think my first instinct with this was did she wait till after the debate to see how it unfolded?
Like?
Was it possible that she was going Are we going to see how Harris fares in this? And then I will decide whether I no.
No, because like I mean, I'll read you her statement and then I mean, this has clearly been prepared and been given a lot of thought. And also, what's she going to do? Go, oh, she didn't do so well. I don't want to back someone who might not win. I mean, that's not what this is. So she posted a picture of herself with one of her cats. She's got a couple of cats, and she said, like many
of you, I watched the debate tonight. If you haven't already, now it's a great time to do your research on the issues at hand and the stances these candidates take on the topics that matters to you the most. And she then just talks about how she's informed herself and
how that's important and this bit's interesting. She then refers to the AI that came out that we've mentioned on the show of her and she says, I was recently made aware of the AI of me in quote marks falsely endorsing Donald Trump's presidential run, and that he'd posted it, and it really conjured up my fears around AI and the dangers of spreading misinformation. It brought me to the conclusion that I need to be very transparent about my actual plans for this election as a voter. The simplest
way to combat misinformation is with the truth. I will be casting my vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Waltz in the election. I'm voting for Kamala Harris because she fights for the rights and causes I believe need a warrior to champion them. I think she is a steady handed, gifted leader, and I believe we can accomplish so much more in this country if we are led by calm
and not chaos. She then talks about how heart and she was her selection of Tim wals as her running mate because she says he's been standing up for LGBTQ plus rights, IVF and a woman's right to her own body for decades. I've done my research, and I've made my choice. Your research is all yours to do, and the choice is yours to make. And then she says, you know, she encourages first time voters to register, and then she signs it off. I love this with love
and hope. Taylor Swift childless cat lady because she's the most famous childless cat lady of the world.
Right.
I mean that's obviously in reference to Jadie Vance's jab about childless cat ladies. He was referring to Kamala Harris, and everyone was waiting for Taylor Swift to come out and she didn't at the time. She's been waiting for the moment where it's going to land in the best way for Kamala Harris, and that's clearly now.
The other thing is is that voter registration in the US and it changes in different states but closes soon, so there's a ticking deadline on how useful it is for Taylor to endorse to get people out to vote for the first time. And also, I just realized I thought that the cat picture was because of the dogs and cats, and now I'm like, oh, no, it's the cat lady. I thought, well, that was fast. She really did move fast on that bit. She's like selecting the dogs and cat picture at the last minute.
Read differently, it looks like she's protecting her cat from, you know, possible violence.
I think it's interesting me your point about pulling focus and timing, because that could definitely be seen as a criticism. But I think, I mean, you're so right because I spoke before about how the context going into this debate is the honeymoon is over for Kamala and that since the DNC since the convention, people haven't been talking about her so much, and her campaign knows that today is
another one of those tent pole breakthrough. Everybody will be talking about a the election B Kamala Harris today, so maximize give them more things to talk about. It will extend it.
You know what I mean.
If you are as obsessed as some of us are indeed about the US election, then you'll be happy to know that the brilliant Amelia Lester is going to join us for a proper debrief and point by point unpacking of the debate in a special subscriber episode that is available tomorrow, So keep your eye up for that. We'll put a link in the show notes.
Yeah, that's really the way.
As a summer comes to an end, I cannot tell you what a relief it is to have finally completed my chemotherapy treatment. The last nine months have been incredibly tough for us as a family. Life As you know, it can change in an instant, and we've had to find a way to navigate the stormy waters and road unknown. The cancer journey is complex, scary, and unpredictable for everyone, especially those closest to you.
We're in a forest, we're on a wind swept English beach, we're always in natural fibers, and we are in Princess Catherine's health update video. Yesterday via official channels, the Royals released a three minute film that's a very long film in social media time, by the way, three minutes.
It's not a real it's.
Very long video. It was almost a mini series.
And Catherine narrates telling us, as you just heard, that she is through her chemotherapy and on her way to recovery, planning on coming.
Back to work.
Now, I'm sure I know that in this conversation we're about to have, we're going to analyze this video and the strategy behind it and the pr planning that went into it. But in a moment of earnestness, I have to say I bloody loved this video. Every single person I know who has been through a version of what Kate has just been through and is still going through, says what she says in this that it has profoundly changed them, that their perspective has shifted in surprising or
in unsurprising. And my view is that these people, William and Catherine, they don't have the option of silence. They have to say something. We've seen what happens when they don't say anything earlier this year, and so choosing how to share this news was always going to be a big deal and it was always going to get a
lot of scrutiny. What they chose to do was turned to a guy that they've worked with before, a filmmaker called will war who makes ads for things like uber eats, but he's also the person who made their very similar stylistically ten year wedding anniversary video and some of the King's coronation films. To me, it felt very Harry and Meghan Netflix doco Vibes, and Marina Hyde has written in fact saying that the Meganification I like this word. The
Meganification of the royal family is in full swing. So Jesse, let the analysis begin. Thoughts on our three minute video from Catherine and William.
Firstly, I agree, I am so glad. A lot of people said that they cried in the first ten to fifteen seconds when they heard that she was okay, because we've been waiting for an update and to see her with those three little kids. I think we have all known women who have lost their lives with little kids, and there is a tragedy. What that does to a family is just awful, and so I am so glad
that she is okay. This video I like to imagine the briefing document because this video was about saying I am now cancer free, but it was about a lot of other things as well, right, Like, this was a branding exercise, and there was a reason why it was not a written statement from the palace. In fact, there was no reference to anything royal. There was no palace, there was no King Charles. It was a departure from
what we've seen. So I would like to analyze this as though we are in year seven English, and there are a few points I would like to make. The first is that Kate is in the driver's seat. You'll notice it's one of the first shots. She's back in control of her life. Oh she is driving it. Yep, yep, that's the symbolism there. Did we notice that she released a butterfly. That's a symbol of metamorphosis.
Now, I think that was in the briefing.
I do, I do, or maybe not specifically, but like, we have symbolism for metamorphosis, and that I have changed, my perspective has changed. I'm a changed woman also blue. So blue is Kate Middleton's color. And you'll notice that everyone, even the kids, her and William, are all wearing different shades of blue throughout the video and apparently it signifies trust and stability. It is also as a family, their color, but it is a color that is thought to evoke trust and stability with people.
Color royal blue exactly right.
Now, did anyone else think it look like Kate was releasing a folk album? Yes, yeah, it was a bit folk album and.
It was a bit it will double for a music video.
Yes, well, this is very serious subject matter, but it has also gone beyond viral. And there was a version on Twitter where they put the succession the music under it, and it was very funny. When I watched the whole thing, and then I watched the whole thing again, and then I watched the whole thing again. It was a bit unusual, like.
I buy that folk album just sorry, I've just gone a fok album. It's the kind of album that I really like.
Yeah, that makes you feel things.
I don't know, you know what. None of us have been through this, so I think that what also was being conveyed to me by all of those bits were a renewal of their relationship. And I think that whether the affair rooms were true, there's no denying that something like this is incredibly difficult. And also what they've gone through with losing the Queen and then Charles's diagnosis, and then Harry and Meghan and then all the accusations about Kate that have come from Meghan and Harry and the
things he said in his book. They've had a time, they really really have. And because they are not going down the Harry Meghan route of talking to Oprah and writing memoirs, they have to convey messages in other ways, and I think this was the way to do that. I think it's so interesting to me how they stepped up their entire strategy. To me, this is what the Royal Family has to be into the future, and I think they get that because people aren't interested so much.
I mean, I guess there's a place for ribbon cutting and being on balconies, but the point of the Royal family is really decorative, and I think when you drill even further into that, and what the read was for me in this Kate video, is that the point of Kate, because she's not ever going to be, you know, on the throne. She's not in the line of success. She's going to be not herself, you know what I mean.
It's not about her, It's about Charles, and then it's about William, and then it's going to be about their son George. So she's literally an accouterment to whoever's on the phone.
She is gone.
But the point is that the role of her and princesses is to perform this idea of femininity. I thought it was really interesting that she was in address because Kate doesn't usually wear a dress except when she's at like big royal things, like we usually see her in skinny jeans or pants. She's pretty sensible. She's sort of that sporty country English gal. And I think, you know, again, this isn't personal, and everybody gets to do whatever they want.
This isn't about her. I'm talking about what she symbolizes, this idea that no matter whether she's just been diagnosed with cancer, whether she's in the middle of her treatment, we have never seen her look anything other than immaculate because that is her job. And I feel like, firstly, the pressure on her and secondly that isn't a very modern approach. It's a little bit more I guess. I don't want to say it's in authentic, but it's more pulling back the curtain. That's what we're more used to.
But the rhyme authentic to her, you know, I mean, she is going to be the queen. She is one of the most important people in that family. There is an argument that she is the most important person in that family because people are always going to be much more interested in her than they are in him, because she's a woman. That's the way it works. But the thing that I take from this is that they have
stepped their game up enormously. As you've said me, although it's interesting because I said that and I said, you know, this is a departure in strategy, But then when I realized that this same guy made their ten year anniversary video and you go back and look at that, it's much the same, right, But they've stepped up their strategy significantly in comms of how to talk about this story, because it feels almost insane now that we were all
so obsessed with the Where's Kate's story earlier this year, and it feels a bit gruesome and macab but the truth of it is that fascination is never going to go away, so they have to work out how to play it. And I've read some commentary like that Marina Hyde piece that kind of says, oh, it's a bit tacky, like do they really owe us this? Do they really
owe us this glimpse into their family? There's always going to be this argument that really the royals should be above this kind of stuff, But the truth of it is, as you say, these days, they can't afford to be above this kind of stuff because otherwise everybody else is telling their story. And although everyone's going to tell their story anyway, you know, they're going to read into as we're doing right now, like are they really as happy as they appear on the beach?
And da da da da da.
People are still going to do that, but they have to control it. And it's interesting because when the terrible pr disaster of how this whole announcement of Kate's health issues rolled out, and with hindsight you can see what a very difficult message that was to work out how to tell, and probably the fuss about the photo and all that was really overblown. But they are learning, they
are changing, They are playing Harry and Meghan's game. This did look like a lot of the stock footage in that documentary, and I hope that this is where they're going, that they're going to start giving controlled glimpses, which they always have to appoint. She's released images of the family that she takes and all those things. But it's interesting. They have a job right now if anyone's into it. Communications officer for Wills and Kate is on LinkedIn right now.
It only got posted on September the third.
I think you could do that.
I would love it. Maybe I'm going to go back to England and work at Kensington Palace.
I think the really smart move was that it was just Kate's voice. We don't hear Kate's voice very often, and this was her voice for three minutes. There was nothing from William. I think if this was ten years ago, it almost would have been William's statement to talk about how the family is faring. And the other moment that stood out to me was when the kids spoke to
the camera. That was kind of candid. It was the kids kind of playing with the camera and we heard their voices, which I don't think I had heard their voices before. But there is something very aspirational and idealized about this family, which, as a millennial who has grown up on the grittiness of social media, does look a
little bit out of touch. It's very kind of the early influences, with their perfect kitchens and their eye and clothes and all of that that I kind of went, this isn't what a family looks like, but it's not their job.
And also authentic to them, right, So you know the stuff of her wandering around in forests, She's written and talked about that a lot. Forest bathing, how she thinks it's really important, Like, this is what they do. They walk around in woods, they roll around on beaches.
What's forest bathing?
Walking in the woods.
Oh, it's not actually bathing in a forest in a river, it's just.
Walking in the worlds well bathe.
Oh god, no, I think what's interesting. And you're right, I should clarify when I say not authentic, I don't mean as you say authentic for them. It's not necessarily reflective of what someone looks like when they've gone through cancer, during treatment and after treatment. And I think that possibly if I was a person who has experienced cancer, is
still going through it. I would feel a little unrepresented, but that's not necessarily her job, although she does say I want to be a voice for you, but the rules of being royal and the rules of being a royal woman will never allow her to look anything less
than perfect, never ever, ever. But I think that the other side text in this whole thing is a real message to Harry and Megan, because their whole narrative about why they had to leave the royal family and move to America is because of what they wanted for their children. They wanted their children and their family to be able to have loving relationship and affectionate and to be able to do normal things and not be in the spotlight.
And they wanted you know that he really painted himself as a very different person to his cold brother and his cold father who did everything for the press, and that married just a dutiful person who came along, who ticked boxes, which we imagine how insulting that was to both of them, but especially Kate, and I think that what this video said very clearly was no, No, we are still in the royal family. We're still in line
to the throne. Don't try to say that we don't have a loving, beautiful family and that we're not affectionate, or that this is all just for show, because we are a very normal like it showed them as good parents, showed William is a really good dad. That's the mantle Harry and Megan are trying to have that we're the
ones that care about acudes. And Harry very explicitly wrote in his book, I'm worried for my niece and my nephews growing up in that system, and it was so out of line and so controlling, you know, through overconcern this idea of only I can give my children a happy life away from the royal bubble. And I think this was very much a message in response to that.
And he clearly is a good dad. He only had to watch the Taylor Swift concert video to see that. You know, that wasn't happening two generations ago. If you want to hear more royal thoughts, particularly from me, listen to today's quickie we talk about this. We also it's going to be a big time in royals guys, because it's Harry's fortieth on the weekend.
Yep.
Everybody wants to know is the King going to post about it. How is the family going to handle that? He's inheriting sixteen million dollars pounds on that day. Next week the first of two films about Prince Andrew and that disastrous newsnight in If Who comes out, it's going to be a big deal. There's going to be lots to talk about that. If you want to hear about all the royal gossip news, we won't call it gossip, We'll call it news. If you want to hear all
the royal news, go listen to the Quickie. There's a link in the show notes.
Hell every Tuesday and Thursday we drop new segments of Mummeya out Loud just for Mummeya subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to get your daily doseph out Loud and a big thank you to all our current subscribers. This week, Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi announced his government would be banning kids from using social media. Here's what he said on ABC News.
We're looking at the range between fourteen and sixteen. That's one of the reasons why we're having a trial, and what we're looking at is how you deliver it. This is a global issue that governments around the globe are trying to deal with and so we can look at the experience, look at the response as well of social media companies. Social media has a social responsibility in order to have that social license that they require to operate
in a decent society. They're not above everyone else. They can't just say we're a big multinational company, we can do whatever we like, regardless of the harm that's being caused.
By the end of this year, the Albanesi government vows to impose a minimum age to use platforms like Facebook and Instagram, although what that age is, as Albanezi said, has not been determined yet. The cutoff age won't be revealed until the government's trial of age verification technology is completed, so without getting too technical, there are a few different ways you can determine the age of a user, from parental concers vent to estimating the user's age based on
their appearance to systems with ID. The move has bipartisan support, However, the Greens have opposed the legislation, saying they would prefer harm education over a blunt ban. Many countries around the world are working on age limits for social media apps, although the enforcement varies, and as Alberanizi has said as of yet, no country in the world has solved this problem.
While some are in total support of introducing the ban, some advocacy groups say social media is critical for marginalized teens to find a sense of community and belonging, and it could also limit their access to news and current affairs. Another problem is the ways in which teens might find workarounds spreading into darker corners of the internet with even less regulation. Maya what do you make of the ban?
I think it's great. I hope it's still they're sixteen. I mean, I think that kids will work a way around it. But I they am really disappointed at the cynical nature of the Greens and the way that they're opposing this because they know that their base are traditionally younger, So Greens voters tend to skiw younger. They're probably less likely to have kids because they are younger, or if they do have kids, they won't be at the age where they've seen the detrimental effects of social media on
their kids. So I think that the closer you are to being a teenager, and the less experience you have either as an educator or as a parent with the harmful effects of social media, the less likely you are to understand or support this band. The idea of harm minimization is better. I mean, come on, you know you tried telling a teenager, oh, this is not good for
your mental health. What parents are saying is that if it's just us trying to make these bands and put these restrictions on our kids ourselves, Firstly, we're not equipped to do it because we know how literally we don't know how to stop them from getting on the platforms. And secondly, it stigmatizes you kid, because unless you join forces with everybody in their class and everybody that they know, it makes them an outlier and it can make things
really really hard and can just connect them socially. So there are certain things that governments have to control, and we've seen that the tech companies are incapable of doing it themselves. So I'm all for it.
It's interesting because I agree with you Mia to a point, But then I've read all the counter arguments and some of them are really interesting. But the thing that always falls apart on it for me is we're not talking about banning children from the internet like I would have more sympathy from that idea of it cuts them off from news and current affairs, it stops them from community building. You know, it's ridiculous to think that you can't have
children's Internet just like you have children's TV. No one is suggesting that children shouldn't be allowed on the internet, right. What they're talking about is these very specific platforms and aimed so far at Instagram, TikTok, snapchat. Discord is about those platforms, so kids will still have access to all kinds of things, and that you know, no one's talking about. They're not allowed on the Internet. They're not allowed to talk to anybody, they're not allowed to gain, they're not
allowed to communicate. That's not what this is about. This is about putting restrictions on those giant companies. And I agree with Albo on that point that these social media platforms do have a responsibility, and they are becoming the world's richest and most powerful people and then putting their hands up and going, it's got nothing to do with us. These terrible issues that are occurring with kids' mental health and suicidality and all this stuff nothing to do with us.
You know, that's definitely parents' responsibility. I agree with mea a million percent about the idea that parents can't fight that alone. The only thing is I find it fascinating because it's a really big deal. If it happens, it affects all kinds of things. Think about for example, and a bubble like tween and teen skincare obsession, which has been entirely fueled by TikTok. It literally changed economies because you're not supposed to market directly to children products that
aren't for children. But these social media platforms have allowed businesses and companies to get around that unregulated and unfettered for a really long time by saying, well, that's not really what we're doing. It's just that the kids really like what we're putting out there. It's like, no, that's not why my twelve year old is asking me for a hundred dollars serum. You know what I mean. It's not that. So this will have massive implications in lots
of ways, which is good. There's a bit of me that's sad because I think, if and when it happens, I know that my children will probably be the guinea pig generation in that I'll probably look back in a few years and go I cannot believe I let my daughter on TikTok when she was thirteen, will feel like I was handing her a cigarette or a bottle of brandy, Like Aura, I don't think you.
I don't think parents have a whole lot of control right now, and we don't the public data that's come out this comes after this release that said there's been you know, an increase in mental health hospitalizations and psychological stress among young people. That is a statistical reality. And the increase is worse among women and girls aged sixteen
to twenty four. And so this has come out. All of these studies have come out, and some will say just because mobile phones coexist at the same time as young people's mental health is deteriorating, doesn't mean one causes
the other. They say, correlation not causation. To that, I say, speak to any teacher or any parent and ask them what they think, or specifically, any parent who has lost a child to you know, mental health issues or is currently experiencing severe mental health issues, and they will tell you the same thing. There have been a lot of
advocates that have been interviewed. One I saw this was in Australia and she lost her daughter to suicide, and she went on her daughter's phone afterwards and had a look at what she was being served on TikTok, and it was so distressing what that our Go rhythm had done. It was wall to wall girls who felt the same as her, girls who were speaking very very candidly about dying. Like any mental health expert would say, you can't look
at that. It's contagious. So the ban, I think is one thing, and a lot of people then go the ban, how about X, Y and Z. I don't think this is in isolation. I also think that algorithms, that's a big one. Algorithms for young people are really bad because they radicalize them and they take them down into rabbit holes. So that's another thing that could be addressed. But I find this attitude of something has to be done, something has to be done, and then they choose something. This
keeps happening. The e Safety commissioner or the government chooses something and everyone yells not that, or I've even heard people say, well, it's not gonna work.
It's not gonna work.
I think that's defeatist and a country has to be the first country to work it out. There are big problems facing the world. Look at what AI can do. You can't tell me that there isn't a solution.
Per Countries all over the world are grappling with this. So the tech companies are going to say that this is extreme. In Australia's idea is extreme, but countries are all over the world are trying to fix this. The first thing that everybody says, and this including parents who like myself a bullseye in this demo of our kids living on social media to a point, and we do our best with our earnest like not until you're this age. And but you know, I'm going to put these filters
on your phone and all that. But ultimately, as me has already expressed, you're kind of powerless in this because it is their world. Like talking about the implications of banning Snapchat is enormous. That is, my daughter probably cannot imagine her life or her social life without Snapchat, which is scary in itself. Right, So the first thing everyone says is it can't be done. How would you do that? Oh, they'll find a way around it. Yes, they will find
a way around it. Lots of kids, some kids will, but kids find their way around buying booze before they're eighteen. It doesn't mean we all go we should just make alcohol legal from when you're ten. Yeah, I think it is defeatist. It's going to be really interesting. I think with these kind of debates you just have to strap in and go. A lot of people are going to say a lot of stuff, but there is no question that this is one of the biggest issues that's facing kids.
And community can be found in places outside of social media, and news and current affairs can and should be found in places outside of social media. What I do think is a little bit funny is like you hear as you say, Maya, the closer they are to teenagers, it's like, I need the Internet for my community, and it's like, mate, you're not sitting there making friends on the Internet. You're looking at pornography.
Ironic thing about them, Yeah, they are definitely Yeah, I think they definitely are. And I but the thing is that I think there will be still be ways to do that. The thing that's slightly ironic about the Green's position, which I do have sympathy for, I understand that point, is that they're defending the business models of these massive
tech platforms that are just all about getting rich. You know what you just explained, Jesse about the awfulness being served in an algorithm to a young girl with mental health issues. Generally speaking, the bosses of the tech platforms will literally go, that's got nothing to do with us while cashing checks. So it seems very ironic that the Greens would be defended in a way that really usually they would kind of think, there's got to be another way.
There was a piece of legislation I think passed in the nineties or something that basically protects all tech giants from anything that is put on their platforms. Like legally they can just go, oh, well, we didn't mean them to see that or whatever. This will hold them more to account, and maybe it means that the market corrects itself and we have better platforms for young people. It doesn't mean there are no platforms, but maybe it's not the wild West. And you know, this is a bit
of a kickup the bum. If this segment has brought up anything for you or has made you think about a young person in your life, then there are resources available in the show notes to life Line and beyond Blue out Louders.
That's all we've got time for on today's show. Thank you as always for being with us, and thank you to our brilliant team on a crazy debate day helping us put all that together. We are going to play you now a little bit of a episode that we made just the subscribers this week with Emily Vernon, and it's about wedding etiquette, which is complex and always gets people excited and specifically about what bridesmaids should and shouldn't be expected to do and pay for. Here's a little bit of it.
I was invited to a wedding and they said absolutely no gifts. That was on there.
Do you still bring a gift?
No? Not bring a gift?
Right we honor people's wishes.
They said absolutely no gift. Do you bring a card?
Like?
Do you bring card?
Is good card? I'd bring like an emergency card with some money in it and then see what everyone else is doing.
This is a thing.
No, if they say no gifts, it means no gifts, just have trust issues. I don't call them on that. Shites because also I feel like once I give a gift, I've done my job. Like I've done it. I just want to have a good time.
I just want to drink.
Know what it is.
You don't feel even you feel like you've got one up. They're walking around the world thinking they've got one up on me because they in the event, and I didn't give you a gift, so you're like no.
So here's the thing that is to the rest of the episode.
In the show notes, Bye.
Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want to support us, subscribing to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it. There's a link in the episode description.