You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast.
Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud and to our Friday's show where we take a break from the news cycle and we all exhale. Today is Friday, the second of August, about which I am not going to comment, And I am Holly Wainwright, I'm Mere.
Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
And on the show today, the Olympic village is full of losers in the nicest possible way. What can we learn about how to handle failure from the people who try the hardest. Plus, we're recommending a brand new fiction thriller. MIA's spotted a rising new talent, and Jesse's cooked something.
Would we call it cooking?
She wanted something up and she's recommending it to us. And in our best and Worse of the week, Jesse's strange stomach. MIA's house is full of estrogen again. And I had a feminist failure by the side of the road, but first me a freedman.
In case you missed it, which you would have if you didn't listen to Monday's episode or you're not in the Outluders facebook group. There is a lot of debate about how to say the word gymnast.
Jim nas gymnast.
Is the a silent or is it emphasized?
And I have heard commentators say it both ways. I have made the observation that the British seem to say gymnasts and the Americans seem to say gymnast.
Babe? Is it gymnastics? Maybe if you're a key, we perhaps our fence QUEWI listeners. Maybe if you're a key, we perhaps it's gymnastics. But for most of us it's gymnastics.
I don't agree. Do you know who would know? Shout out to out louder Trenor, whose son Jesse Moore is competing in the Games. Jesse is the only man in the artistic gymnastics men's situation representing Australia. So good on, Jesse.
We have an out louder in the Olympics.
We do anyway. We asked Trenor, who's right me or Jesse. Here's what she said, Hi, there, Mia, Holly and Jesse.
I'm Trenor Moore, mother of Jesse Moore. Male gymnast and I hear your debating how to say gymnasts, Jesse.
What do you think, Ah, I think it's gymnast with an AA. I don't think it's really a debate really, So then you've heard it from the gymnast himself.
Do you know our out louder who won our books, our signed books because she's so lucky, because she was listening to us in the most interesting place, and she was listening to us in Antarctica with the penguins. Yeah, I asked her. She's called Sophie Counsel. I asked her because there was a picture of her in Antarctica with the penguins. I said, which of the hosts do the penguins agree with most often? Is it MEA? Is it Jesse?
Is it me?
And you know what she said? She said, the penguins would like to respectfully disagree with all of you and request more conversations about fish and we vero much.
The story I can't stop thinking about this week concerns a man named Harry Garside. We watched him during what I reckon He might identify as one of the lowest moments of his life. Harry Garside is an Olympic boxer and in Tokyo he won a bronze medal, making him the first Australian to win a medal in boxing at the Olympics in more than thirty years. And this year Paris twenty twenty four was going to be his year.
He wanted to be the first Australian to win an Olympic gold medal in boxing and he was in a very good position to win it. And then earlier this week he suffered a shocking defeat. This is what he said in a post match interview. Two decades dedicated to one dream, and it's over, just like that. The interviewer asked how he was feeling, and he said, I feel pretty numb right now. But I'm sure the next month or two will be quite challenging, quite hard. I fear
that my mind will get the better of me. I feel like I've let myself down and I let a few people down. Mate. But what do you do? The interviewer asked a few more questions and he repeated that he was feeling like a failure right now and that he didn't even know what to say. He said, I know sportsmen are just meant to say the right things. But deep down inside, mate, I fear for what the next few months look like for myself. I'm sure there will be some dark times and I just have to
prepare for that. Now. This is not the post match interview you usually hear. And he followed up with a post on his Instagram and here's what he said.
Beating myself up for the past couple of hours and so forward, and had a couple of screams, a couple of cries, and then I went and got some food and I was eating a cookie, and I just had this realization that absolutely this sucks. Like we all hate failing, we all hate not succeeding, we all hate shooting for the stars and falling in our face.
Absolutely, there's no genying that. But I had this realization that I went on a two decade journey to try and get that gold medal, and yes, I didn't get that gold medal, but I've become my own friend in that journey and being kind to myself.
The side reminds us of is that there are more than ten thousand athletes inside that Olympic village, and most of those athletes will go home profoundly disappointed. They've trained their whole lives for a moment, and they probably lost. You don't get to that level without being fiercely competitive, and as much as we hear them say I'm just proud to be here and represent my country, the goal
is to win. Did you find his words refreshing? Because I'm pretty confronting to listen to Holly, What did you think?
I love that he said it. I particularly like that second quote where he said he felt better after he had eaten the cookie, because haven't we all been there.
I thought the whole thing was going to be like and now I can eat cookies, and I was like, yeah, but that wasn't the point.
I think it's really refreshing anytime you hear sports people being honest, because in order to be as focused as they have to be to get to where they are, they follow very narrow scripts, which is why, as you said, this is not what they normally say. So anytime they're
going to be really honest, I love it. It always absolutely kills me at the end of football games, big finals, where you'll see all the men fall to the floor and cry like, it kills me because I don't agree with you that every one of those ten thousand athletes will be devastated when they don't walk out with gold. Most of them won't even be expecting to, not near
the right. So there are ten thousand athletes there, there are about a thousand medals, so the odds are you're not going to get one, and the favorite's going into every single sport. We know who they are. They're the people whose names we know. They're the ones going to win the medals. Most of the other ones we don't know their names. If we think that the only point of the Olympic Games or any sporting endeavor is to win gold, then what are all those other people doing there?
And I'm trying to win gold?
I don't agree with that. I think there's an enormous amount of importance about trying, about participating, about like I don't. I think you've got to be there because you love what you do. They're all not going to win gold and they all know it, right, so why are they bothering otherwise?
I think there's what you know is likely, but there's always hope, right because there are always upsets. Look at Steve Bradbury in the Winter Olympics when literally everybody fell down and he won gold. That's what makes the Olympics exciting because you never know. It all does come down to how things happen in the day, and.
The reason we all know his name is because that's happened so rarely.
It happens so rarely. You're right, it does happen, so really, But my point is that it does happen. So everybody's got the hope that they're going to be either Simone Biles or Steve Bradbury or somewhere in the middle. Like, I don't think anybody goes to the Olympics or any kind of competition or anything thinking that they won't win, or not trying to win and do their best and hoping beyond hope that somehow they'll be able to dig deep and pull something back.
And in order to get there, they've won a lot.
Yeah, every one of those ten thousand people, these are the best people in the world. And what they do. Focusing so intently only on the ones who went gold and saying everyone else there as a loser just entirely discounts why they're doing what they're doing.
I disagree. Oh, I think they're doing it to win. I think that's what gets you through. That's what gets you through the inn early mornings, the pain, the sacrifice, the all of those things. The disappointments is that you've got this burning desire. You're not doing it for lolls. You want to win. You've got a hunger and a competitiveness that you and I, for example, don't have.
And what we see as well is people who peak. And then there's always that decision, like saying Ian Thorpe, who competed in two thousand, right, And then there's a decision for anyone who's at the Ian thought level whether they go on to do another Olympics. And sometimes I go on and do another Olympics, and they have a Simone Bars experience, right, and they win gold again. And sometimes you watch someone who was top of their field now in the middle of their field, and you think
even the winners have to experience fails. I like underdogs.
I know I'm a bleeding heart, but I do like Simone Biles is amazing. But it's not even interesting to me that story because it's like, oh, she's amazing, She's gonna win.
That's what's so ironic. She's come back in Paris as not quite an underdog, but pretty much ad and that was what was interesting about her dog because she said she was an underdog when she went to her first international competition, I think the world, when she was fifteen, and she said, every meet I've been to since, I've been expected to win. So she hasn't been an underdog
since until now. Again where it's like she completely wiped the slate clean by what happened in Tokyo for herself as much as everybody else, and she almost got that redemption story that you're right, it wasn't boring anymore. That's why we got a docco about sim Biles and everyone was watching.
Winning, winning, winning, gold, gold, gold, like me.
I guess the question though, it was like, what do we watch rid the race finishes, The race finishes, We don't follow the people who came sick into the locker room. We watched the podium and then we watched the winner, and they don't get the interviews. And the one that generally gets the interview gets the sponsors is all over every poster. If you've been around airports lately, it's like
Arian Tipmas her face is everywhere. Harry Garside, his face was everywhere, and it's because they were gold medal hopefuls, right, And I've really been thinking about what the village looks like for people who You're right, Holly, there are some who would have been happy to be in a heat because you know your personal best and all that, but there are a lot of people where there have been upsets.
And strangely, around the same time as I saw this Harry Garside clip which has since gone viral, I opened a newsletter that I subscribed to by Kate Lever and the headline was what I Do when I'm Sad? And I clicked so fast because I'm always fascinated by this, and she wrote about putting on a playlist called Dramatic Girlies that has music from Taylor and Lana del Rey, or having a shower cry. I've been thinking, you know, we're talking about an Olympian. You've just lost, your dreams
are shattered. What do you do? What do you two do when you're sad, when you've had like a shit day and when you're feeling like you're absolute lowest. What do you do?
There's two ways to approach it. One is to lean into the sadness and just really go with it and play sad music. Have a shower. Cry music is the thing that will make me like it's almost like marinating in my sadness or turning up the volume in my sadness. Sometimes what sad music will do is let me access crying and my sadness more because I just I'm like, I'm just going to really feel it. Yeah, And then the other way is going, okay, how do I cheer
myself up? And so they are two very different approaches to when you're feeling sad.
And what do you do to cheer yourself up? I feel like I need to get myself out of a funk, like what do you do?
I will go to Westfield I used to sadly I don't anymore. Going online never makes me feel happy, but I will because what I reach for is distraction and that's not necessarily the best thing, because sometimes the best way through sadness is through it, not around it or burrowing underneath it or trying to jump over it. You've just got to go through it. And I think that distraction will be my go to. I will often be with my dogs because there's something very sort of I
don't know, Yeah, you can cry into a dog. Quite will being with Luna helps me a lot. I think about the spiritual rest of being around someone who just gives you pure joy. And I was going to say, because she doesn't need anything from me, but she needs so much because she's a baby. But it's like, you have to be very present. You can't be super self indulgent, or you can with your own baby, but when you're looking after someone else's.
Baby, Holly, clearly Harry went and got a cookie.
Yeah, bless him. I'm totally but hard relate. Listen. I think about this a lot because I know you guys like to laugh at me for being like, of the three of us, I'm missus participation medal, right, I'm like, I think we should absolutely celebrate everybody who has worked that frickin' hard. I hate watching a football game when it's six nil and somebody's running away with it. I like, yeah, I like there's a lot of dignity and importance in trying hard. And one of the things that's hard about
sport is the results are so binary. And I don't think it is an accident that a field that I'm in and that attracts me the most, it's much less binary. Like you can't really just win or lose at doing creative pursuits, right. I know that you can. There are awards and things, but it's so subjective. You know, this book's good because of this, but this one's also good because of that. I love the way that person does that.
That TV shows great because blah blah. Like I'm not really just into winning winning, winning, It's not what motivates me. But I think that's because I don't see myself as a winner, whereas I think people who are hyper competitive always do. They see themselves as a person on the gold podium. I see myself bronze at best. That's fine, But the thing is, I.
Think that makes you happier.
But I've had some really big disappointments in my career where I have lost. I haven't lost an Olympic medal, but after my second book, I pretty much lost my publishing deal. I've had things I thought were going to be successful and they weren't. I've had all kinds of big setbacks like that, And it's really hard.
If you thought the.
Only value in doing what you do is that I'm going to get a gold medal for it, then there would be no point in doing it. I think that the growth and the important thing and the thing that we actually love about watching sport and athletes that we don't admit is we love seeing that. We love seeing the fact that, like, you know, the people who are getting up at four am and swimming every day, they might never win gold, but like the commitment to do
that is astounding. And like so anyway, to my point is I do love a tryer, and I do I think there's lots of dignity and losing and I think there's no shame in silver, is what I'm saying. But what I do when I've had those kind of setbacks and they've been significant, is I retreat when I'm really upset. I retreat every time, Like I remember getting a phone call that gave me very bad professional news, and I will put on a brave face and get through the day, and then I will retreat.
And I got And when I say retreat, do you retreat to your family or away from your family too? Like do you like being completely on your own for a little bit to plays?
And I might reach out to somebody surprising who is going to tell me me, like for advice, but not necessarily someone who's just going to tell me it's all going to be great and you're amazing. Sometimes in my life, I've definitely reached for unhealthy ways to deal with feeling sad or losing. Definitely jumped into a big glass of wine on occasion, Definitely eaten too much chocolate on occasion, Definitely taken it out on my other half, like I'm not some kind of post a child for.
I agree with Holly that there's something that happens when you try your absolute hardest at something, regardless of the outcome. There is some self esteem, which is what I think he realized in that second clip. Doesn't mean that the loss is any less hard, because you know it's a loss, and there's disappointment and you can hope and all of that. Even the winners lose, Like there's no such thing as someone who just wins, even though it can look that
way regardless of the result. There's been points in my life where I've gone, oh, I've worked really hard at this, but I have experienced the same those like monumental failures. And what he spoke to in that clip that I resonated with was a real sense of shame, Like I felt embarrassment.
One hundred percent, and that's why I retreat right, Yes, And it's interesting because do you ever look at and I'm going to get their names wrong, but the two swimmers who won gold and silver earlier this week, who were like best friend and training partner, Marianne and Molly, but it changed the order that everyone was expecting. When Molly asked Arianne to come and stand on the gold podium with her, she looked a little bit uncomfortable about doing.
It, but she did it.
If there's any embarrassment there, it wouldn't have been for her and her performance. But it's what she thinks other people are thinking that she's thinking, do you know what I mean? Yes, she must be so embarrassed.
You know what I mean exactly right, And it's like you feel as though that's being projected. And what I respect so much about Harry Garside, right, in order to go to the Olympics and in order to be that hungry, and he posted something before he went and he's like, I'm there to win a gold medal, Like, that's what I'm doing. You are putting yourself out there to be
as touchwood to go. I am trying the hardest I can possibly try and if I failed failed vulnerable you know I tried, whereas the easiest thing and the less courageous thing is to not try. And I know we're in this moment now where it's like talk about it. You've got to talk about it. You've got to talk
about it. Call someone and don't be alone. There was this research that came out recently that Emily Vernon wrote about from Mamma Mayor about how when something really awful happens to women, often they don't tell their immediate friends about it, even though they have this intimacy and they've probably had fourteen conversations, they haven't brought it up. And I think it's intentional, because I think distraction is.
About when you tell someone it's real. When you're a link,
there's no option with that. Listening to harrogasaid, I was thinking about the public nature of not meeting your goals in the most public forum imaginable, and I was thinking that sometimes, because you know, we're talking about what I do, and I'm sad, that's kind of very different to when there's a definitive point of a working towards maybe for four years, maybe for twenty years, I didn't get the result that I wanted, and I know that that is
the end of my road. Like he said, he's done, like he can't keep he won't be able to compete at the next Olympics. So he might be able to reach other goals, but the goal of an Olympic gold is forever gone. And that idea of a definitive end point to a dream. I don't know whether that's more or less cruel than when a dream peters out slowly.
And I was thinking about in real life when that happens for regular people, like perhaps realizing that you won't be able to conceive a child yourself, or when a marriage ends, or when someone you love dies or someone you're estranged frum dies and you realize there will be no reconciliation or you will not be able to correct
whatever it was. If it's a parent that you had a terrible relationship with, and it's like the dream of them being the parent that I always hope that might become even as an adult that's gone, that can't happen anymore. It's almost like about mourning the past because it's all the time you'd spent dreaming, but also mourning the future. Because there will never be a time when it is fixed. There will never be a time when you feel complete
in the way that you thought you had to. And then you look at people who just want to be you know, I wrote in my book Strife about this friend of mine who was joking that she was going to write a book called fuck Your Dreams for young people, and it was around the time of like Idle, and it was like, just chase your dream if you want it enough. No, if you want it enough, you probably
still won't get it. So when do you stop trying If you want to be an actor and you just can't get that break or a singer, or a break into a particular industry and you can't get that job, Like, at what point do you just go? You know what, I'm going to draw a line on.
The pre At what point do you move your goalposts of success?
Right?
Because you could be an actor, but you might not ever be an aol you know, like whose name is above the theater and is on the but you might make some portion of a living appearing in ads here and they're doing local theater whatever. So that's the thing about the idea of do you love what you do? And you just want to do it or do you have very specific goals to achieve the thing?
Right.
I recently interviewed Leanne Murriarti for mid and I went back and listened to an interview that you had done with Hermia for No Filter ages ago. And obviously she is like the pinnacle of commercial fiction success, right, And you asked her a question about whether or not now when a book comes out, She's like, you know, and she was like, no, because once you debuted at number one on the New York Times bestseller list, which is
something that obviously got quite related to. But hey, every book then has to come out and number one on the New York Times bestseller list. Or everybody pulls that face at you that they pulling on the couch when they're watching Arianne Tipmas do something amazing and win a silver but it's not a gold and they're pulling the face like oh, and so it's that thing that don't all the really successful sport coaches, the Bencrow people of the world say You've got to fall in love with
the process and the results will come. It's like yeah, but.
Yeah, and also and you have to fall in love with the process because even if you win the gold medal, it's still not going to be enough to justify all of that training. You're going to have wanted to love the process. But it was my point is at what point do you give up? Yeah, because you know, it's like now with reproductive technology, for example, it used to be you try to have a baby until you're over is packed in and then you went, okay, I can't.
Now it's like, well, there's so many options. Of course they cost money, but you could do this, you could do that, you could do it. And it's like is that.
Good or is it actually in some ways cruel to keep the hope alive or is it better because it just means you have to readjust and go, Okay, maybe I won't be able to have my biological child, but I could still find another way. Maybe I'll foster a child. Maybe you know, like you said about moving the gold.
Posts, it's like the sunk cost foul, which is that I've been trying at this thing for ages and ages and ages, say, being an actor, and I'm probably not going to get there. To let go of that feels like to let go of all the hard work you've done. You don't want to waste all of that. So you keep going, you keep going, you keep going. And what's on the other side of trying for conception or Harry Garside or whatever, is that the big job to do the next day is identity creation, because it's like who
am I? When I wake up? Even after a gold medal, it's like, who am I?
If I not trying to go, that's so much better than me. I was talking about the future. But you're right. It's a bad identity, isn't it.
Yeah, because you go, I now have to start from the bottom. And I've had moments of these in my life and you're talking about retreating, and I keep this journal I'm not a journaler. I don't normally journal, but I all these moments of crossroads. I sit down and I run, and there are nuggets in that that I look back on and I'm like, oh wow, I could see something then, right, And like that's something that I've helped.
I like that moved me through things like let's I've had an enormous failure and I've just felt like I've got some really uncomfortable feelings. I don't know what to do with it. I don't like just sitting still, so all right, and I'll uncover why that felt like a failure. Maybe what the thing I was actually aiming for is and hidden in that it's not immediate, but hidden in that is actually what I'm looking towards, or actually what I want. I find that helpful.
Do you think, because we've taught before about people who are really goal oriented and people who aren't, if you are hyper goal oriented and you are as you say, Mia, you have to realize that your dream is unattainable. Do you think you have to swap it for another dream? You know, like the idea of how you get over a breakup is like get under another one, that kind of thing. Do you think that if that is your thing?
Like if it was like I am going to win an oscar and then it becomes apparent that you're probably not going to you Mike Michelle yo one one, Like the sixties people were like that, you have to swap it for something else. Okay, I'm going to kayak across to New Zealand, Like I don't know, do you think that there are some personality types who need to chase I need to chase.
I get over failure pretty quickly, though, I think.
I didn't see your memory.
I think you're right. I don't remember, don't forget it. I think it's true. I'm like, oh, that feels bad.
Okay, next, Wait, what did I fail at?
Yeah?
And it's like I'm just next, next, next, which is exhausting in a different way. But you're right, hole, I'm thinking about what you said about how I'm very leaderboard. It helps me organize things, and it also I do see myself on the podium, not because I think I deserve to be there, but because that's what success looks like to me. And if I'm not there, then I feel shit. I'm not like I gave it a good old try. And I don't think you are either.
I think you would like to think I always say I'm not competitive. It's not true, right, I am like and I'm ambitious and I'm driven right, no question, yes, Because if I was like, I wouldn't be sitting at this table with you people, because this is a hard
seat to fill. But one of the things that doesn't sit well with me, and it's going to make me sound like a wanker to say it, is that leader boards mean that you think everybody else on the leader board is not as good as you, and I always think that a lot of people are a lot better than me, which is a self esteem and selfish thing, right. So if I'm like I have to be the best, that means that I have to assume that then the people underneath me and I just don't see the world
like that. I think we've all got a lot of different things to bring. And it's interesting because so my daughter is really spawedy. It's the way in which she is least like me. I have never been sporty, and she absolutely loves it, and she isn't necessarily. She won't like me saying this, but she doesn't. She isn't necessarily
the best player on her AFL team. There are some girls on that team who are so naturally talented and who can kick a ball like you wouldn't believe it, so precision, and they work very hard, and she works really hard, and she's probably never going to be that person, but she loves it, right, love loves it. If the only aim is to always be the best, does that mean that you should go I should give up because I'm never going to be that person. Do you know what I mean?
Do you like doing things that you're not really good at or don't have the potential to be really good at. No, I've got a friend who is I don't think so. I've got a friend who's one of the best in Australia, if not the world at what she does. And she's just about a year ago took up an instrument, which was really random, like just why who starts playing an instrument in their fifties. She was like, I've mastered that
other thing. I know that I'm good at it, like I know that I am one of the best in Australia, if not the world. But it's actually very humbling, not in a I need to be more humble. It's more she's liking not being good at something because you can only once you your master. It's something you incrementally improving. But she's starting at the absolute baseline, and she says it's exercising her brain and her competitiveness in a way that it hasn't been for a really long time.
I do like trying new things, like I'm then getting into it and yeah, I don't know. It's interesting because I think is it true that if I'm very leaderboard focused that I think everyone else is a loser.
Well, typically that's not what I think. It's more just that I think I'm a loser, Yes, exactly.
It's like, so we're all looking at our own Yes, I have.
One standard for me, and then I think everybody else is great. Kind of thing.
I want to know about out louders and moments of failure because that's why the Olympics resonates, So that's why we all watch it. That's why there are stories everywhere, is because there is something about winning and losing that is universal. And I want to know out louders who have had an enormous failure, like what did you do next? What's the plan? How did you get yourself out of a funk? I would love to hear join us in the out Louders Facebook.
Hell, it's Friday, so we are recommending things that you can do and eat and watch this weekend. I think that Maya should go first because she's on this like little known new talent that I think we should all get on board with. Mia, what's your recommendation this week?
I was on Instagram on the weekend and I stumbled across Hamish Blake's stories and he was making a birthday cake?
What he makes a birthday cake.
He does this thing for his two kids on their birthdays, where they can say whenever they want, he makes a birthday cake. He does it through the night with whiskey some form of alcohol, and he turns it into an Instagram story sort of live doesn't live stream it, but make stories. She need me to explain it more.
Why are you recommending it? Because the thing is is that we've discussed this on this show before.
I think he's been doing it for ten years.
Some women don't like it because they're like, why does this guy get all the accolades from making the cakes. I've always said, I think we need to encourage the man.
Who gets funny. I think it's like mated. I love Hamish.
Other people say to me, who cleans up all that mess?
I think it's one of those Why do you?
Why have you? Why did it resonate with you?
Two recommendations. One is the actual watching of it, and he saved it on his highlight. This year's daughter wanted him to make a cake with in the faces of his two cats. They've got those squashy faced cats. A piece of cake, pieces of cake. I like watching baking. I don't know why I've been resistant to it. So one is to actually go and watch it because it's just entertaining, and the other thing is having a more
open mind because I always really liked Hamish. I know Hamish personally a little bit, and I think he's a delight and he's the same off camera as he's on camera. But when we've discussed this and I know this phenomenon and this polarization around Hamish Blake's cakes, and mostly it's just a bit of a good time and he does it for his kids and it also makes a lot of other people really happy. He's just very basic in
that way and very generous and it's lovely. But the thing about a whyder men get so many accolades and women just have to do it without applause. And I guess I've been a bit bar humbug about it. And then you actually watch and I think it's one of those things that the internet has. So often we'll read an opinion or hear an opinion about something without or before we've even looked at the actual thing and made up our own mind. It was a good reminder to not do that.
The Internet reminds me of high school when someone whispers in your ear, like.
Don't you think that me is a bit blah?
And then you start noticing this thing about Mayor that you never would have known, and it's like, I actually don't even think that.
And it's also just like this is so funny because this is our show. But like, do we have to have a hot take on Amy?
You say yes, part of.
I think the hot takes on Hamish black cakes like five years old. I love them too. I'm very much on board with you. Like I don't always watch it depends, but like he's just a joy to watch, and I like his.
I'm now going to go back and watch all the others. And it was really interesting the precision with which he does it. He's got all these instruments. I'm sure it didn't start off this technical, but he's got like he does his black gloves, and it's just funny him and his mate and.
It's just you know what this actually ties into the last segment. I have heard Hamish interviewed because you know people you just want to hear interviewed, and you think maybe I'll be more like you if I just hear you talking he's a delight. He says that there is something innately funny about trying really really hard at things, that enthusiasm is infectious, and that that's actually funny because a lot of us are like you kind of like the cake thing, right, you could do like a half
fast job. What makes it great is how hard he's trying. That's what life is about, is just giving yourself one hundred percent, which is what we were.
Just talking about, the vulnerability and the humor in trying really hard even if you're shit at it, and it's very much not shit. Did he start out shit?
He definitely got better, definitely got better and very ambitious, like very ambitious in the cake mate the stuff.
Where if my kids said that to me, I'd just start crying and run away, like I couldn't. I don't bake birthday anyway. If you want to have a look at it, it's on Hamish Blake shots on Instagram. He's got it in his highlights.
I'm going to go next. I'm recommending a book. It's a brand new book, and I think you've read.
It too, Jesse.
I have, and I hadn't recommended it yet because it hadn't been really I think it just came out yesterday in fact or this week, and it's called Girl Falling and it's by Hayley Scrivenat. Now if that name rings a bell with you, it might be because you read her first novel, which was called Dirt Town.
Oh. I love that so good.
It won loads of what's speaking of competitions for creative pursuits. She is a gold medalist because far out that book was.
Do you feel a bit shit? But it sucks?
Because's actual really nice and listened to her speak because I've been like, how do I be more like you?
That was great. I assume it's being made really good.
Anyway. Her second book is quite different. I think it's pretty different, really different, right, And it's really interesting because it's set in the Blue Mountains, which is in New South Wales outside of Sydney, and it's very famous for rock climbing, right, And it's about these two best friends really who grew up around there and who are rock climbers. And then one day they go climbing with one of the best friend's newish girlfriend and she falls to her death. The newest girlfriend falls.
To her death.
That's how the book opens. So no spoilers there, right, and then the rest of the book obviously is sort of unpacking what happened, what happened that day, what happened in their past, what happened to get these three women to that place at that time, the friendship between the two women.
Similar to Dirt Town in that it starts with a murder or a dead body that was more of a crime.
I mean, it wasn't a crime procedural, but it was a crime book. I mean, obviously this is a crime, but it's not really a crime book. But that's not how.
I've And it's very centered. Like Haley Scribner in her first book, which was really cool, was like she had this subplot about like a queer love story, and that's what this is as well. Like it's exploring that in Australian context, which you do not see that often.
And she does a great plot.
Interestingly, and she.
Young, is she old? What's her vibe?
She's young, youngish, she's really nice. She lives in Wollongong down my way. She's really really great. Anyway, I'm really recommending it. It's called Girl Falling. It's really dramatic. It's a page turner, but also she's literary, like, it's beautifully written, she's great read it.
Yeah, it's one of those endings that just ten out of ten does not let you down. I am recommending Aldi spannicoptera.
You are speaking my language, yep.
So we have been doing our Aldi shop. I think once a quarter I throw in an Aldi recommendation. The last one was the very cheap dishwasher tablets. Today is the spanic Coppeta. It's about nine dollars. I was trying to find out online. I think it's about that wow.
And I saw it on an ad the other day after you mentioned it to me. Luca mentioned it. I saw it on an ad.
Go to our Can you explain it?
Because I haven't eaten one?
Oh my goodness. Marriage'll change your life. So it's like, you know about.
Four or five nights.
You do, you absolutely do.
So it's got like spinach and fetter in it, and it's like a twirly thing.
A spana copta is a Greek pastry. You're aware of this, right, Yeah, pastry with fetta and spinach in it's yeah, it's really freaking You can make them yourself. But why would you when Aaldi make such a good one you.
Chuck at the oven. They are obnoxiously massive, and they are perfect for like if you are going somewhere and someone says something stupid like bring a plate. That happened to me recently and I brought course cuss and that was not what they meant. Can you just get me some? Yeah, I'll get you some. And I'm worried, I said to Luca, I don't want to recommend this because next time I go, there's not going to be any left. I got a particular time during the week because it bloody cells out.
I've heard it's quite fatal.
It's really famous.
They're so famous. Aldi is as we know, like some of the things at Aldi have cult status. This is one of them.
Yeah, it's brilliant. Span a copata. We have it with rose veggies or a salad, and then I have it with Suzeki as well, and it's so good. For links to all our recommendations, make sure you sign up to the Mummere out Loud newsletter. It is written by our friends. There will be a link in the show notes. Really new edit it.
No, I don't anymore, don't you know? I said it's really good. I'm really good.
It's really good because m writes it. I said, you edit it.
Well, I don't even edit it anymore. Okay, but I did. But anyway, Ruth's still never mind. Just sign up for it outlad has gone do us as solid? Do you want daily outloud access? Why wouldn't you? We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum and me are subscribers. The link in the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week, and a huge thank
you if you're already a subscriber. It's time for Best and Worst, the part of the show where we share a little more from our personal lives, because don't you want to all hear more? Holly, what was your worst of the week?
Speaking about trying hard at things? A while ago, I told you that there was a rat in my vegetables at my house than you very upsetting me. You guys have blanked it out because it had gardening, and I understand, not your thing.
I've got a rat or a mouse in my house because I went and tried to get some bread the other day and there was a little hole that had been burrowed into the plastic that the bread comes in. And there was some of the bread missing.
That's disgusting. What do you do to get build?
Thought it had gone I thought it had gone away, and so I planted some things. They disappeared again, so it.
Was still that right.
So I am very proud of myself because on Saturday afternoon I went and I got chicken wire, and I got wooden steaks, and I built myself like with my own bare hands. I've got the scratches and stuff to prove it, a cover to go over the veggie bed.
I thought there was sex injuries.
That is so satisfying to be something with you, hair.
I was so proud of myself. I had to cut up the wire. I had to well. Actually I got Brent to saw the steaks in half. But we won't dwell on that. I built it, I made it all. I was so proud of myself, and I thought, I'm going to put some of my cabbage seedlings that I've been like lovingly bloody bringing up from nothing in there, going to put some in. Put my cage in. That rat doesn't stand a chance. Next morning, seedling's gone. Rat night one looked at my cage and went, how did it get in?
I don't know. It wasn't obvious, probably buried underneath.
It's either bred underneath it, or I'd left a gap or what lots of people said. Because I put it on my socials, the holes and the chicken wire too, I understand how the Olympians feel when you try really hard at something. And yeah, anyway, that was my worst. My best was right on Sunday. I'm taking Billy somewhere and we're driving down a country road near our house, and I mean, we've got the car that I drive all the time, and then we've got a really really
crappy car. Still haven't brought a new car here. I'm still doing a really crappy little car. I was driving that and I'm on this road and this guy behind me keeps trying to drive really close to me, and I'm like, what's wrong with that guy? I'm saying to Billy, what's wrong with that guy? And then I'm like, God, the car feels funny, and what's that funny noise and whatever?
And then he starts flashing his lights and I'm like, oh, and when he comes alongside me and he goes, look at your tire, and so I pull over to the side of the road and I get out and one of my tires is completely shredded, like not just flat, but like shredded. I'm driving on the rim like it's bad. I don't know if you know this about me, but I'm the face of.
Yeah, I've known that.
I was going to say, can't you just like open the window and go bub Jane and don't tires drop from the sky magically.
So one of the really fun jobs I've been doing this year is doing this content work with Bob jen TM. It's about tire and it's been great. And one of the things that I learned was how to change a flat tire. So this guy who pulls me over, he goes, do you want me to help you? And I was confident and I said, no, I am going to change this tire myself because I know how. And I got my phone out and I Google and my video of me changing the tire, and I reckon, I can teach myself how to change this time.
I'm watching myself change this tire.
Anyway, it turns out that yes, I can change a tire like cousin, I know how to do it. The video and Bob is really good. This isn't at for them, by the way, but it's still really hard.
It's really like thet.
Is the nuts on the tire are really hard to undo, and so you kind of have to stand on the spaniard And so there I am. But Billy is with me, and.
He's just like what, I love Billy, But do I think he'd be particularly?
He is not useful. All he wants to know is are we going to get to the shops or not. I thought you were gonna buy me some Pokemon cards today. This is really inconvenience and I'm trying to stand on this spanner thing to loosen anyway. Because of where I live, probably like three different guys in big utes pulled over and said variations of Dahl Dahl do you want me to do that? I let one go by, people love, I let another one go by. I'm like, no, I've
got it. And then the third guy comes and I was like.
Please, god, tire, I've got a video to help.
He did it in three minutes, like just unbelievably quick. Jack bang spanner bang tire on bang, Thanks very much, Off he went, and I was like, look, feminism, right, I know how to change a tire now thanks to my you know the work I've done. But do I want to when it would take me a really long time because I'm not very strong with these nuts. Or would I like this man to do it for me? Yes?
I would. My best of the week is that that man stopped helped change my tire in three minutes, and I was like, I'm so grateful, thank you so much.
Can I do anything for you?
And he just looked at me like I was nuts, because he was like, of course you would change a tire for someone by the side of the road. And I shook his hand and he drove away.
I'm interested in the etiquette of that.
Right. People are good.
I've had that situation where someone's helped me and I've been like I almost want to give you money or something, but that.
Would be insulting. Yeah, I thought that about this guy. I was like, oh, I should buy him like that wasn't there a shop, but I should take my child. He wasn't even the kind of guy that like you would get his number like it just did all felt wrong, So you were just like, very thank you. I shook his hand. I said that was your good deed for the day. And he laughed at me. And then that was, oh, my worst of the week.
I feel like I've done this is my worst before, but here we are again. I have a cough out louders. It's why I was recording remotely on Monday, because I was coughing. I didn't want to cough for my friends.
Everyone in the world is sick, everyone.
Is, and I was sick. I was one of them, and I was coughing, and that's annoying because it's like cough, cough, cough. And then also we I was at my parents for dinner on the weekend and I just suddenly had like, because if I get a little catch in my throat, it will be like an attack of coughing. I've worked out if I'm sitting down that supports my pelvic floor shots, okay, but if I'm lying down or standing up, bad things happen. Have you got I weed my pants so bad I had to go home like a.
Shot kindergarten who said home, didn't you bring the bear underpants?
And I was wearing some new jeans that I got from Cotton and I really liked them. They were like leopard print jeans, and I weed in them. And the bad tried. It's very hardest, but I didn't have like a very major I just had like a liner. It didn't understand you going.
To the pelvic floor physio.
Can you give me the number?
I've only sent it to you eleven times?
Will can you again to me? Because I really need to sort that out.
I knew you were going to buy those jeans. I saw them in the shop and I was like.
I bought them.
Maya will be wearing those jeans?
You know. I didn't see them in the shop, but I saw someone at Mamea wearing them and I'm like, what are they? And she said cotton and on sal this supercomfey and they come in like one hundred dollars and I just got the red sixty nine dollars. This isn't a recommendation, but anyway, I weed in them. But they're clean.
Now that's good.
My best is all my girls are back. So my daughter has been away for six weeks in Europe, traveling by herself. We sent our dogs away for four weeks to holiday from them, my two girl dogs, and they all came back on Friday, and also my daughter's girlfriend came back as well, and so she'd been away for a couple of weeks. So suddenly, having been in the house with Jace and Remy and sometimes Luca would pop over.
Haven't seen you much, Jesse, all the estrogen and the chaos flooded back into the house in the span of about six hours, and it was just delightful. And also it's like a little piece of my heart has been over in Europe, and you know that thing of she's been traveling by herself. She's only eighteen, So every morning, like I'd slept with my phone on every night, and every morning I'd quickly check and I'd look on the
family three sixty yup to see where she was. And you know, she was in countries I'd never been to, staying in hostels and stuff, and I was so excited for her to have this adventure. But it was like a part of my heart was there. And so she came back and it was just lovely.
I love that.
Can I ask a question, a dog related question? They mad with you for sending them away for four weeks. They're happy to be home. What's the vibe?
Short memories? Dogs live in the moment, so they don't tend to carry resentment. They're just like, hi, so good to see you.
For five minutes.
It was funny. Is Bella, who's like my dog. She got in the car and she just needed to look deeply into my.
Eyes for communicate a few things.
She just needed to be like because I've not been apart from her for that long before, and she's like, I thought I'd never see you again. This is a truly great day.
My worst is I went to the doctor about these weird stomach cramps I've been getting and I had to get bloods right, anyway, a few things showed up and like gonna get that sort of. But one of the weird things was when I went back to the doctor, it wasn't the doctor who'd done the test at this different one and he was looking at it and he went, this has been flagged. This is really weird. But your
blood sugar levels are really quite elevated. And I was like, oh no, that sounds bad, and he said, yeah, we're going to have to like every time you get a blood test, we're going to have to keep this in check. And then he said, do you have a history of family history of diabetes? Then started talking to me about like you've got to be exercising, You've got to be eating meals and not cake. And I was like, I mean I eat meals and like, I don't eat that
much cake. I was so anxious about this reading and I left going, oh my god, am I like am I pre diabetic? Like I'm thirty three. I'm like I thought I was exercising and eating okay, Like if these lifestyle habits have caused this, then like, oh, I guess I have chocolate. I do have chocolate every day for dessert.
That must be it. And so I was so anxious and got home and were sitting there spiraling a bit, and then I googled because he gave me the level and I was like, I should check how bad this is. And I put the level in and it said, yeah, that's elevated for a fasting blood test. And I was like, I didn't do a fasting blood test. I did a non fasting blood test after I had a diet cod because I was at the check because I was specifically told it was non fasting. I did my test at
four pm. I've had multiple meals, I'd had one hundred coffees. I was like, my blood sugar when I looked at it was actually in the completely normal range. So I went from thinking I had high blood sugars to having normal ones. I came home and I was so stoked because me, you'd sent home dessert and I was liked free dessert. But also to the outlanders who like do have high bloodsh that is a scary bloody thing. Lifestyle changes. Don't feel like making them. But anyway, I was very relieved.
So that was my worst.
Also that you've got to do the test again, I assume.
Well, I don't think I do, because now it's just marked as non fasting and they're like, oh, your levels were actually completely normal. My best has been watching the Olympics off. But my best within that has been the conversations I've had with Luca while watching the Olympics, because he watches it with me, and men are so delusional. You're never reminded of this so much as during the Olympics.
We'll watching the fifteen hundred meters heats this week and I turned to Luca and I was half joking, and I said, do you reckon? He could dive in a pool and do fifteen hundred meters And he was like, of course I could. Of course I could do fifteen hundred meters.
I was like, it's ten laps of fifteen me.
Oh my god, Maya, it's not ten laps.
It's way more math, thirty laps.
It's sorry at lap, but you're.
Laughing at me, but you're laughing with me. It's swimming laps. It's swimming lass, swimming math.
Seven eight years i've been with him, never has he done a lap in a swimming pool. I was like, there is no evidence, no data to suggest you can swim one hundred meters. I said to him, three hundred meters. You need to take a break and a breath. And then we had a friend come over who was like, yeah, I could do fifteen hundred meters. His girlfriend walked in. I go, could you do fifteen hundred She goes, now, I'd need to break up to three hundred meters. I
was like, that's exactly what I said. That is the truth. Then we're watching the Latin The average person can't jump in a pool and do fifteen hundred meters. Then we're watching the Latvian badminton.
And Latvian are deep, they are deep.
And we're sitting there watching it and Luca said, with absolute confidence, give me three months and I could be the best bad minton player in La fear.
I said, you don't know the rules, strange family.
He was like, it's a smallish country. I was like, you don't know the rules. He said, that would take me half a day. I could be the best player.
Men.
Watching the Olympics is so toxic that I'm just like, this is why the world is as it is.
Well. He also said a different challenge, which was if you had to pick a sport that you had to do at the Olympics and not come last, what would it be? And so every night I watched and so I was like, okay, maybe skateboarding if I could sit on the skate if I had a handle. And then my husband's like, that sounds like a car. Then I was now I'm just being silly, and I'm like, I think synchronized diving with Jesse, Oh, I'd love to see that.
I have a sense that i'd actually been quite good at archery. Think i'd be I think i'd be good at archery.
Yeah, I do.
Is there a walking even the walking away there and they've got rules and stuff.
Can't do any of it. I don't think. I don't think I can pick up the shot put.
See, women are really good at knowing their limits. Whereas men watch like women's football and they're like, well it could beat that team.
I've actually hadn't been thinking. I couldn't have even sat in real life or on the couch through the opening ceremony. I couldn't sit on the couch. That is how useless I love it.
Does parenting need a rebrand? Are working women not selling the idea of parenting very well?
Apparently not?
Apparently not. You might have seen there was data last week about the baby recession, and Emily Vannam joined Holly and I on Out Loud this week. She's she is to talk about why women are deciding not to have babies. A link to that episode will be in the show notes because.
We discover that a lot of people at Mamma and Me are saying they think maybe they don't want to have children. Yeah, and a lot of the young women and your data.
That is all we've got time for today and this week out Loud as We hope you have enjoyed being on the podium with us this week. A massive thank you to all of you and to our amazing team Emmeline Gazilla's audio production from Leah Porge's We will be back in your ears next week. Until then, try and find the sport you like on the Olympics. Tell us where it is. Jesse is watching the Latvian bad Mutter. Something needs to change.
Bye Bye. Shout out to any Mum and mea subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want to support us, subscribing to Momma Mia is the very best way to do so. There's a link in the episode description.