You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded.
On Welcome to Mama Mia out Loud, where women come to debrief. I am Jesse Stevens, I'm Mia Friedman, and i'mm Vernon filling in for Holly and here is what is on our agenda for today, Monday, the thirtieth of June. The Liberal Party is in a world of pain and some people think they know how to fix it. We way into the debate that has been going on for more than thirty years.
Jesse came in very hot this morning, desperate to talk about the viral documentary that she watched on the weekend, which I will never watch. So she's going to tell us everything that we need to know about it.
And are we witnessing the downfall of dating apps? I have a lot of personal.
Feelings, But first, if you were anywhere near the Internet on the weekend, you couldn't have missed the site of Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez getting married in Venice.
I feel like you fell down that rabbit hole. I really did.
I watched it like I would watch an Awards ceremony, you know, like the red carpet, but the red carpet went on for three days and involved boats.
So everything I know about this wedding was against my consent because I just looked at my Instagram on a lovely Saturday morning, and not even just my Instagram, but my sub stack feed, my Facebook feed, my group chats. Everyone was so obsessed with this wedding. I struggle to think so deeply about something that I know no one will care about in like a few weeks except for the people who are just so so angry about it.
I was harassed by a wedding to me I wasn't invited to, and if I was out a virus, VP no thank you?
Well are you would have gone?
A lot of people would have VP no thank you, but two hundred people said yes please. The groom wore new muscles in a spray tann, the bride wore boobs, and festivities began with a phone party and ended with a pajama and lingerie.
Hardy guests my personal health well guests.
Included Oprah, Avunka Trump, Lachlan and Sarah Murdoch, Sydney Sweeney, Bill Gates, Leonardo DiCaprio and my favorite description of the whole thing. I read a lot over the weekend about it, because a lot of people had a lot of feelings. My favorite was a series of Kardashians walk down a series of jetties wearing a series of ten thousand dollar bras. Some more quick numbers. The cost of the wedding was
rumored to be around fifty million. There were, as I said, two hundred guests who arrived on ninety private jets.
Okay, I have a comment on that, Yeah, because I'm not a mathematician, but that means that for each private jet, like, there's two people of private jet yees.
So I did that match too, And at first I thought, oh, why would they only? But then I remembered the whole point of a private jet is that it's private. So if you're rich enough to have a private jet, it's your jet.
But private let pool uber pool.
Yeah.
Like I went to a wedding recently. There was a bit of a drive. We got a minibus, you know what I mean. That was like, get a private jet and put twenty people on it. But the idea that the private jets are landing with two people on them I guess it's also their entourage, the hair and makeup.
Yes to a group of five. I read that those two Rivera jets were the same amount of emissions as twenty seven thousand cars in one day.
And I'm not buying any new clothes this year. And let me tell you watching that, I just went fuck it there.
Well, you know who did buy some new clothes. Lauren Sanchez. She wore twenty seven different outfits, including adult chain ger bying a wedding dress that took nine hundred hours to make and reportedly cost several one hundred thousand dollars. We know this because Vogue covered it. They did a digital cover that they dropped over the weekend of her wedding dress, which you might have seen was the most covered up thing I think she's ever worn. It was very fitted.
She said she didn't wanted to go bling bling. She wanted to be classic. And she said this occurred to her after she went up in Space and she said she wanted to last minute dress. I know. She said she really changed everything after Space because she was good to do the traditional sort of mermaid strapless look that she wears a lot, where her sort of bezongers are out the top and up high. But she said, no, I want to be classic and.
More low key with my dress that took eight hundred thousand hours to make and sorry dresses. How many dresses did she put on?
There were about twenty seven. We saw a few wedsses like the movie.
That's why she did it, base change. I have a fashion question, please. I know you briefly talked about this last week, but is this not a bit of a tacky wedding for Vogue to jump on the.
Vogue thing is really interesting because we're going to talk about all the big feelings first, and then we're going to talk about the scurollous gossip, because yes, it was
a massive spectacle. And what I noticed the most about the coverage is that the people who were upset about it were really upset, and there was a weird kind of inverted snobbery where a lot of people who aren't rich we're turning up their noses and saying that the rich people were very tacky, as though there was some you know, arbiter of what's good taste and what's bad taste. The definition of good taste is just someone who shares whatever taste you have, and.
I read that in terms of the incentive for Vogue to do this, a lot of the big designer houses are not doing so well at the moment financially right, and so you need the zero point zero zero zero one percent. Spent a lot of money at them, so it was like good publicity for adult chain, Gabana or whatever to go look at this dress and basically like it's a big ad and they've got to kind of go. It doesn't matter whether we endorse Lauren Sanchez. She is a vehicle now for us to sell our clothes.
It's not just that though we're talking about it now. Something that I've read an interview with Anna Wintour recently, and I've read her biography, and it was a big weekend for her because she is stepping away from her role as editor in chief of Vogue.
There were some funny jokes that were like, she put Laurence Sanchez on the cover of Vogue, and.
People were really snobby in the same way that they were very snobby the first time she put the cut Ashians on the cover. I've read an interview with her where she talks about being on a plane and she was flying somewhere and sitting next to a man who was talking about I can't remember who was at the time, but it was a particular celebrity, and he said, oh, she'd never be on the cover of Vogue because that's just
you know, that wouldn't be what Vogue is. And she said, I landed, and I booked that person straight away, because if someone's in the cultural conversation, the only way for these legacy media brands like Vogue to stay relevant is to be part of the cultural conversation. You don't have to agree with it, but if everybody's talking about Lauren Sanchez, yeah, Vogue got the scoop.
See I could baland the TACKI conversation quite telling or interesting, right, because I was probably one of those people who felt sick watching this unfold over the weekend. The display of wealth, the vulgarity of the whole thing, the private jets. I found that horrific. But it's like, what, so if her dress was less tacky. I don't have a single opinion on that dress. I don't care about the dress at all.
But if the dress was less tacky, then we could justify the exorbitant costs, Like I think our issue is with the money, and we have to place this within the context of a US right now that is giving tax breaks to billionaires at a time when they are wanting to cut health care for working people. That's why this event sort of transcended everything and kind of was so significant in the zeitgeist. I think that people horrified by billionaires and it felt as though it was being
rubbed in our faces. It felt like the Hunger Games, where you've got these really rich people going. I know there's a cost of living crisis and you guys can barely afford rent right now, but I'm gonna wear this dress and come on my private jet. And it was this ekey like was it felt so tone deaf, but it felt intentional. It felt like an intentional performance of just like we are has and we want the have nots.
I think you're completely right. I think a lot of people get tacky mixed up with loud yes. For me, like, back in my day, I never I didn't know a single billionaire, and now I know so many of them. Personally, I didn't know anything, but I didn't know a name of a single billionaire, and now I know so many of them.
So which billionaires do you know what other billionaires do you know?
I know Musk, I know Gates, it's JK Rowling. Still wantld did she donate that away?
She did donate some. That's a good point yeeah.
Do you know who has donated almost twenty billion dollars over the last few years is Mackenzie Bezos? Yeh, first wife of Jess.
Is she still a billionaire?
Though she still is because she got a lot more than that, Yeah, so you know her.
Yeah. And it almost felt like if you're a billionaire, you had to kind of be a bit embarrassed about it, like you didn't want that many people to know, and you didn't want you were just really secretive about your money. And now you have these guys who, like, we know that the phone for the phone party helicopped it in because they had photographers, yea. Or the phone party. They want you to know every single part of what went on during that weekend exactly.
Don't you find that part a little bit ugly?
Mayn well to play Devil's advocate. People have always had over the top weddings, and not just rich people, you know, in terms of people of all different socioeconomic groups. Have always spent a huge amount of money compared to perhaps what they could otherwise do with that money on weddings, so that's not new. Also, rich people have always been rich. They've always had fancy things, they've had fancy jewelry, they've
had ostentatious displays of their wealth. Now we're certainly seeing a reaction to the quiet luxury movement of the last few years. And that's what's so in a way fascinating to me about this. And it's not that I don't share your feelings, Jesse, but it's more the flagrant display. I find that interesting and I think.
That it's no shame.
No, there was always the sense of if you were really wealthy, it was very tacky to show displays of your wealth. That's what's quiet luxury. That's why it's always been something that you do behind closed doors, and that's more sheic. But the world has also changed. Firstly, you've got Donald Trump in charge, and he likes the gold toilet, and he likes everything gold, and even the whole Maga beauty ideal. It's not minimalist, and so I find that interesting.
And I also find something about Lauren Sanchez interesting in that she genuinely isn't trying to impress and a winter really you know, like she has got a certain aesthetic that she likes, which is boobs out, huge amount of work, plastic, fantastic. She owns that she's not trying to be someone that she's not. If anything, he has changed to meet her kind of aesthetic, and he's now you know, jacked and fake tanned. And what struck me most about the picture
that they posted. It was also so interesting to me that she wiped her Instagram clean and changed her handle to Lauren Sanchez Bezos.
Like an hour after yeah, at.
Like an album release, like talk about a rebranding, and then just had that photo. And the photo that they released of the two of them, what struck me was that neither of them were looking at each other, and he was so airbrushed and filtered he looked like a fetus. It was really interesting, Like I found the whole thing just a really rich text.
It is such a rich text, but it just says a lot about where we are. And I don't think that you can subtract the Trump element, right because Bezos, let's remember, donated a million dollars to Trump, who is now rounding up immigrants in the US and deporting them, and so to see the celebrities, And I've grappled with this all weekend, where the celebrities attending a wedding is a tacit endorsement of the bride and groom and everything they believe. Because I'm sure I've been to weddings where
I don't know how they voted. I don't know what they do in their spare time. But you can't go to Jeff Bezos's wedding and not know he's the Amazon dude.
But what if he's a nice person. I'm not talking about the business side of what he does. That's a different thing. And what if by all accounts that I hear from anybody who knows anybody who knows Lauren Sanchez is that she's a really good time.
Yeah, I supp it's like I should be a good time. I just saw a lot of conflicting ideologies. In one place, I found Oprah's presence unusual. I found Leonardo Dicaprioj, I know, has done an enormous amount for climate change. And you've got the stark contrast in our image, you know, based media of wildfires in Europe right now, which are climate change related. And then you've got what is descending upon Venice. You have the Amazon, like what that has done to
the environment, to fossil fuels, to all of it. And then for Leonardo.
DiCaprio to rie Co sign I know all the values of the bride and groom. Every time you're invited to a wedding.
I wonder if you do you are in the spectacle in the way that they are.
Wouldn't there be more dangerous if they didn't go? Just as we've seen the election and how much of these guys contributed to the election. These guys have all these celebrities in their pocket. Like if I was a Leonardo DiCaprio, I'd be like, well, this guy could like shut down my next movie. I have to go.
And I also wondered, if I'm Leonardo DiCaprio and I'm trying to get funding and save this animal from going extinct, then Bezos's money is injecting a lot into that right now. Because remember I had to go deep because I was like, I need to know how Leo and Jeff know each other.
This is my Roman empire, A weaken I remembered, do you remember a clip from years ago at an event, we don't know what the event was, and Laurence Sanchez is between Jeff and Leo and she's looking at Leo like she's trying to kiss him, like she's just enamored. And then Jeff Bezos tweeted and was like, hey, Leo, want to hang out And it was a thing about.
A cliff didn't remember that.
So they go to a lot of events stuff together. The one I can't work out is Sydney Sweeney. That is just I can't work that.
That's a bit of a mystery. I'd like to move to scarless gossip. Briefly, what was she doing there?
Can someone come up?
She's with Ai, a twenty six year old up and coming actress. It's unclear whether she's connected to the bride or the groom. And what was interesting to me is that with two hundred people, they had a guest list of two hundred because they said they wanted it to be intimate. And people have rolled their eyes about two
hundred being intimate. But when you two adult people, both on your second marriages, with grown up children, even just your families, would you know, blow out the guest list and various business people and friends you've accumulated through your life.
I wonder if they said two hundred and it became three hundred. Yeah, because the amount of celebrities that's true.
I don't know whis people forget?
Is that did she hook up with Tom Brady?
Well, weddings have a specific job, like the bride and groom. Their job is not only to get married, but they owe it to their single friends to set them up. Because a single person is there at a wedding. They've done all the like, hey, do you need help dressing up the table? Do you need help organizing the hotel? And there'll be one single person there. I reckon it had been like Jeff's cousin who's been single for his whole life. Yeah, and he's like, don't I man, I've
got you. I'm gonna invite all of these girls for you to meet to Sydney Tom Brady.
That's where Sydney came in. And there was theories that they paid people to come. I don't think they had to pay people to come. But is it a coincidence that Orlando Bloom had this in the calendar and he went, I'm going to relaunch at the wedding, because I think there's going.
To be just a few days confirming that he'd split from Katy Perry, which is interesting because Katy Perry was at the bachelorette do in Paris for Lauren Sanchez went up in space of course, starting her astronaut career, but she's in Australia so she couldn't make it. And they obviously hang out together quite a lot.
As a couple, exactly, and Orlando when they were a couple, he seemed to have a good time.
Did he get custody of the couple Sanchez?
I believe from reports and because I think we've all got to agree that the best part about a wedding, put that aside is the next day. It's when you wake up and you go who hooked up with her? What happened? What Auntie picked a fight with that person? Orlando had a glow, he did He's like with someone. I don't know who it was, but I believe that Sydney and Tom Brady definitely something happened there. They were walking around Venice the next day together. Orlando was kind
of like coming. I think he also maybe liked to see me.
Both Sydney Sweeney and Tom Brady know the value of a good pet walk. They do, and so if they had actually hooked up, I don't know. I think that they probably wouldn't have done that pet pork. I think the papwork was pretty calculated and worked very effectively.
Won both Derif Oprah had to come because Gail had to go because of the time eleven minutes in space, Opra doesn't have to do any So then I feel like Gayale was like, Oprah, please, I don't want to go on my own.
Well, she's the automatic plus one.
Yeah, she's I think that she's the plus one.
I really looked like she was having a great time.
She did, and I also know that like Lauren Sanchez's cousin, who is I see as myself right went what the fuck do I wear to this wedding? And then she was like Sidney Sweeney's coming, She's like, what the fuck do I want?
Like, well, Jesse, it's funny you should say that because the guests weren't told anything about any of the events for security reasons, so it was just like you've got to be here at this time. You'll be picked up from your hotel, and that's kind of all they were told, but they were given mood boards because there was a series events over the three days. The mood board.
You would have loved that outfit.
Which I wouldn't have understood, but that's incredibly helpful.
That's why all the guests kind of were dressed similar for each.
I don't know how to read a mood book.
I definitely know Kim Cuttsian and wa what you wanted? Did not see the mood.
She's her own mood board, But did you see? I loved the bit where they all had to wobble on and off jetties. That was great.
Some of them are like being lifted.
Yeah, some of them weren't that thrilled about that?
Can I get a private jet to my job?
Just the Kardashians alone, I think were about ten people, which is what ten people in two hundred? Someone do the mass that's like five percent five percent with Kardashians.
Yeah, someone should have done the matter.
In a moment. Does the Liberal Party need quotas for women? And the viral documentary I watched so you don't have to.
We must be a liberal party that is proudly for women and made up of women. Our party must pre select more women in winnable seats so that we see more Liberal women in federal Parliament.
The Liberal Party in Australia, we know, not only lost women in this year's election, but kind of lost everyone. Liberal Party leader Susan Lee says she will be as zelot for women's representation in the party, but says she is agnostic about how they get there. Friends, do you have a sense of how bad the Liberal Party's women problem is right now? Like you know, you hear it, but do you kind of know just how bad it is?
No?
Because I thought they had a lot of other problems that they had to saw through.
That is a fair point.
And I also just think that's such a disingenuous thing for her to say. It's like, I really believe in this, but I have no opinion about how we're going to get there. Yeah, Like that's just paying lip service, isn't it exactly?
And look just some facts. Of the twenty eight Liberal MPs in the Lower House, six of them are women. Of all Liberal MPs, only a third are women. The Liberals have their lowest number of women in Parliament since nineteen ninety three, which was a year before Labor adopted its first gender quotas. You want to take a guess as to how what percentage of labor MPs in our women sixty fifty six percent.
Yes, that's going to say.
It's yeah.
After the nineteen ninety three election for Labor andps it was eleven percent, and that's when they looked in the mirror and went, okay, I think we need quotas, which brings us to now. So Angus Taylor, he's the Opposition Defense spokesperson. He said last week, the Labor Party will do things their own way about quotas, and they do subvert democracy, and that's a matter for them at the end of the day. If you're going to have quotas,
it means you are going to subvert democratic processes. So he and a lot of other Liberal Party men say that it is fundamentally undemocratic. It goes against all their principles, which.
Is so untrue because there are already so many quotas. There are quotas about left factions and right factions. There are quotas about National Party versus Liberal Party MPs. They already have quotas.
This is just lie they kind of talk about, like the merit Defense like Tony Abbott has always talks about merrit and it's like you don't have to know a lot about politics to know that it's about alliances, it's about you being in bed with you and like all the different politics that happens is not simply like always the best person for the job and for context. In twenty fifteen, the Liberal Parties set a target when it came to female representation. They love a target that they're
not accountable for. They're very good at those. Then again in twenty twenty two they were like fifty percent female representation.
We promise a target means nothing if you don't have a plan to get to that target.
All that's happened is that the party room has fewer women than ever. So quota's big topic. They're instituted in some boardrooms, in workplaces and of course in politics. Mia is it time for the Liberal Party to establish quotas.
Of course it is. It was time twenty years ago. It was time after the last election when women resoundingly rejected a party that was led by a man in Scott Morrison, who was wildly unpopular with women, who was seen as really being out of step with the way women see themselves in the way modern men see women and just completely out of touch. And they seem to learn nothing from that. They seem to learn absolutely nothing.
It seems like bad politics not to how about you M.
See for me when it comes to quotas, I struggle to see the difference between what is a quota and what is just ticking boxes. And I come at this from a personal perspective because I remember so specifically twenty twenty when George Floyd died, who was a black man that was brutally murdered by police and Minneapolis. That's why I feel like where everyone learned about the Black Lives
Matter movement. And then that movement started in twenty thirteen, but it became very popular in twenty twenty, and I just remember so many people who hadn't heard from in years reach out to me, going, Hey, can you be on this panel, can you give this talk? Can you host this event very last minute? And you can so tell when you're a quota versus when it's actually a
genuine opportunity. And I wonder if, like we established quotas in the Liberal Party, will these women go in with the public always thinking that there was a specific reason why they were chosen versus if they're actually good at their job.
So that's interesting you say that, because when Labor instituted quotas, five liberal women came out, This was in nineteen ninety three or nineteen ninety four, and they came out and they delivered a statement about what they thought about it, and they said, it is effectively a vote of no confidence in women's own nobilities, and it is a reverse form of discrimination. It only treats the symptoms, not the
cause of the problems. So they felt offended at the idea that someone would go, you're just there to kind of be a quota. But on your point, m I wonder if your example is actually an argument for quotas, because what people were doing in that was going off vibes. They were going, the vibe is that we need diversity and representation, let's throw m on or whatever, whereas a quota is more of a promise and a process and a system that has to be like instituted and upheld.
And I think that the problem with twenty twenty was that all of those gains were very easily able to then be rescinded because there were no.
Yeah, I'm not being asked to host of ens anymore.
Yes, that's exactly right, Like I think that the process wasn't properly instituted.
Yeah, I think it's interesting. All the research shows that people when they're younger, Certainly I've noticed in my experience younger women are like, no, I want to get there on my merit, and you can be very idealistic. And then as you get older and you see that nothing changes and things actually go backwards, as we've seen with the Liberal Party, you start to say, well, merit doesn't
seem to actually matter. Yeah, because if you are a believer as I am, that merit is equally divided in the population between men and women, in terms of intellectual ability, intelligence, talent, all of those things.
And between all demographics.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Then our parliament should reflect our society, and the fact that it doesn't is bad for our parliament. It's bad for our society because we know that companies that have more diverse boards, that are more reflective of their customers or their audience or their shareholders, are more likely to do better, to perform better because it's helpful to have those different voices in the room.
Yeah. An example of that is in sort of mid nineteen nineties, just after all of this talk about quotas was do you remember Alexander Downer. Alexander Downer, you would form an infant and Howard, I think yes. And so this was at the time when women's representation was really low, and it was talking about whether they needed quotas, and he was talking about a policy on women's safety and domestic violence, and he made a joke that it should be titled the Things that Better Like rather than the
Things that Matter. That's an example of something that likely wouldn't be said in the company of women. I think sometimes you need the quotas to get the right people in the room to solve the problems. I don't think that you can even start doing that until you have that representation, because it's not fair to an electorate whether you vote for the Liberal Party or not. You need
two competitive parties. And this is they're in a pathetic position, and surely, surely this is just good for democracy.
So there's this thing going around where everyone is sharing their most unhinged group chat name. So you know, when you have like a consistent group of people you talk to online on Facebook, Messenger, Instagram. You can name that group.
It's my favorite thing to do.
Everyone is sharing their names. I have a really good one that I've had for years, two and a half Indians.
Okay, who is group?
Two of my cousins, one of them, her dad is British.
Oh, I love it. So that's so good.
There's a lot of very inappropriate humor in group chat names.
We asked our Instagram. So if you don't follows on Instagram, please do mum me out loud flaps to the wind. I like that. It's a bit naughty. In case I need an organ donor. Yeah, that's a good one.
It's a good one for a family group chat.
Or for a craft group.
Stitch and bitch Yep, that's got tone.
Yeah, haggs in the hood, the outlaws, so the partners of the family.
Oh I've got a question about changing group names. Yeah, so something. I've got a few group chats where one in particular and we're all sort of writery, wordy people, and sometimes there'll just be a phrase that comes up that just has everybody in hysterics, and someone will change the name of the group chat.
But then, do you.
Do you think that's okay? Now?
You remove them from the group.
It can be a bit tricky.
I think that it's funny. I looked at my group chat names and I was like, I forget the context of every single one of theirs. They just I think six months lady, You're like, what was that about? I don't understand.
There's also I've had the issue of some people who have little children and their phones around, or they've got announced messages. And I had a group called servant with a k oh because I was explaining to the group that the expression serving is a compliment. So someone changed the group name to servant with a k I ALWASO found myself. I was going to a dinner with that group of people and I was in the car and I was like, hey, Siri, message Serven.
No, you can't take everyone's phone. You've ruined people's Mondays.
After the break, our dating apps done, I'll get you up to speed with the reality of what it's like to find love and sex in twenty twenty five out loud As.
If you want to listen to us every day of the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a mum and mea subscriber. Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and support us, and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.
Dating app Bumble has laid off thirty percent of its staff after losing three hundred and fifty thousand users last year.
Maybe they got married.
Well, I was going to say, if you think three hundred and fifty thousand people found their love of the live last year, you would be wrong. When I read this headline, nothing, not even like one percent of it surprised me. I one hundred percent can believe that this many people have been off the dating app.
Have you deleted Bumble?
I just redownloaded it, so I'm helping them out. I think I talked about it in this podcast. I deleted dating apps in December last year after an unfavorable breakup where a man messaged me saying that he found someone else took a break so much happened in my life. Redownloaded them. First person pop up was said man with a little message from Hinge saying most compatible. No, And I'm like, now I know why people will delete these apps, So tell.
Me why they think this is Because it's not just Bumble is across the board. They're saying that every dating app is down, dating app usage is on the floor, and some people might go, this is quite hopeful. Maybe people are meeting in person again. Why do you think it is that dating apps kind of on the nose at the moment.
I've been on dating apps for on and off for a very very long time, and there was a time in my life I think I would have probably been like nineteen twenty where they were the best. I feel like a lot of millennials met their long term partners on dating apps, and they always talk about our producer m talks about how great they were. That has changed completely.
Been a long time since someone's that they met their partner on the apps.
It's a very millennial thing. It's a very millennial thing. It's changed completely. Dating apps are a complete cess pit. Why it's now turned into, I want to say, like a social media app. Like I remember talking on the podcast that I would use dating apps for a point in my life where I just had them as dopamine hits. So every time I felt like something was a bit off at work or something, I'll just literally go into my phone, do some swipes, see who liked me, and that's all I needed, because.
It's like gambling. I imagine part of the attraction is gambling. It's like at any time, I could swipe and find that person. When I was single, I used to call it single energy. I used to be able to stay up much later in clubs or bars or whatever parties because there was always that potential hope that I might meet that person.
Oh yeah, well you're not even meeting people in person anymore. So with like dating apps, I feel like, firstly, there's so many options now with dating apps because they want people to stay on them for longer. So what do you mean, So Hina's slogan is made to be deleted completely untrue.
People love stay to be deleted. Yeah, what does that mean?
Because it's like a play on, like you will find the person you love, so then you'll delete the app. So it's made for you to then delete the app.
Which is not a good business model for the app. Right, So, it only occurred to me recently that all of these apps are disincentivized to try and match people who are good matches.
Yeah. So I read some analysis and some of its speculation because I don't believe that their algorithms are sort of public knowledge, but there is pretty good intel that suggests that they will know who would be really compatible with them, and he's not going to be the first person they give her, okay, so they'll sort of give
him a bunch of other people. And then when I was on dating apps, there wasn't an option to pay, but now it's like there's this top tier where they'll go, well, m we'll give you him if you give a bit of money.
What are you paid for?
Okay? So on some dating apps because you can swipe and swipe and swipes, so now they've set limits for free users, like you can only do ten swipes a day, So you do your ten swipes and then you get to your eleven swipe and you see love a pay well, the hottest person you've ever seen in your life.
That's where they put ms perfectly paywall.
And I will admit I did pay seventy dollars for Bumble Premium, and then I saw this option saying that do you want your profile to be seen by the people you've swiped right on? Straight away? Like of course, I'm like, okay, I want that. That's a ticket premium plus ninety dollars a month some month. Actually I think it's one hundred dollars a month. A month, Yeah, I'm
paying seventy dollars a month. That is ridiculous. What's really annoying about it is that they have the packages, right, because if you pay monthly, it will be cheaper than paying weekly. So in your head you have to be like, how long do I plan on being single? Do I get the three month package? Do I get the six month package?
How optimistic am I that I will find someone? Because I was listening to these researchers talk about this exact phenomenon on a podcast called Plain English over the weekend, and these researchers were saying that none of this indicates that people are meeting in real life. That simply isn't happening. People aren't doing the dating apps, and they're not approaching people at bars.
It's just people have just given up. Yeah, they're their home with their vibrator.
Yeah. The amount of people in their twenties who have never dated is higher than ever. Right. They said that the people who dating apps are still really good for are people who are in their forties, their fifties, and in the eighties. If that was you it was really hard to date because you didn't know who else was single, you didn't know who else was looking. But now it's almost become their domain because they kind of like know
who they're looking for. You can set your age range whatever, and so for gen Z's, I think that it's not really the domain for young people anymore.
The marketing is just so interesting, especially the gendered marketing for dating apps. And this is in heterosexual relationships. But I had so many male friends who automatically would pay for like Tinder premium, Hinge premium, because it is much harder being a straight man on a dating app than it is being a straight woman. Like they get no matches at all, they'll have one. No one goes up to a guy like heymate, let me get a photo of you. You look really good. So they have the
worst photos from like twenty thirteen. So they're all paying, and then Tinder and stuff for like how do we get women to pay? So now you have to pay if you want a hype preference?
What do you mean by a high preference?
So if you want to date a man of a certain height, you can change your preferences to only give you men who are like above six feet or something, and they will only show you men who are above six feet in their profile.
I mean this is imagine if there was the equivalent of that. I wonder if there is about men who could say I want women of a certain BMI and how upset people would be about that.
Well, you can put ethnicity preferences in there, you can put height, you can put religious preferences, if they want kids, if they don't want kids, if they want long term relationship, if they want casual sex. You can literally form the perfect person in your head.
Does it cost?
So?
For women? Is the only barrier that you've got.
To pay for heights, all of the preferences, all the payment. But like men are more likely to pay because they want their profile to be shown to more women. So you have all these options of what payment will get you. So this is what my researchers were telling me.
They were saying that in the dating app world, for the top one percent, who are basically ridiculously attractive, it works for them, but for everyone else, it's a market that's too competitive and you're just gonna disappear. So whereas if you meet someone at a bar, or you meet someone in person. You are filtering, whether you know it or not, for one hundred things at once, for how they smell, for how they walk, for how they move their body.
You can even put voice members in this.
You can hear their voice, and that's what dating apps are trying to do. But really it is a two dimension looking at your face. And what these people were saying is that initial chemistry, what someone looks like, actually has merely no bearing on the success of a long term, happy relationship, and that is why the most successful relationships often happen when people meet not only in real life, but meet in situations where they meet again and again
and again. So the workplace friendship groups that kind of thing, because you probably won't have love at first sight, but you'll go slow burn, you'll do the scan and you'll go no, and then they'll come back, and then you'll get more data points and you'll go eh, and then you'll get more data points and before you know it, you're like, oh, maybe I'm attracted to this person. So that's how we're wired, and dating apps if not.
So that's actually so true because when I was dating my ex partner, I met him three friends and we got on really really well, and we were dating and then in our initial dating phase he showed me his Hinge profile and I was like, there's no way to swipe right on you.
No, of course not. The real world is not about tens and twos. That's not how you work. I didn't meet my partner and go, is he a ten? Or like how would you?
And you wouldn't have never met him on.
The apps because he wouldn't have been in my age, he.
Wouldn't have been in your age, Ange, And can you just explain the difference broadly between the different apps. So there's like Hinge, Bumble Tinder, Like what's the difference?
So Tinder is like the og app. I feel like that's the one everyone is across. That one has the most users. It's also worldwide known, so it's just like one. It's just completely honing in on the market. It turned into a bit of a hookup app when the other apps came on board. Tinder has now done a full point eighty where people are actually finding relationships again on Tinder. So if you're looking for relationship, give Tinder a go.
The difference with Bumble was that the woman reaches out first.
Women reaches out first, But now that's slightly changed. So now you can have a set question on your bumble profile where a man can answer if you don't want to be the first one messaging. They also have bumble bff from Bumble Business. I know a lot of friends from overseas when they travel around, they meet a lot of friends through bumble Bff.
I also know women who are downloading an app called her for queer women, women who were interested in dating other women and it is it successful? Yeah, I know a few people who've met who've met women like that or women who are curious or you know, there's a whole lot of things.
And as grinder for men.
Yeah, hin just probably you could be on RAYA now I've.
Been on Ray's waiting list for seven you could meet Orlando Sweet. But if like remember the Instagram.
Probably still there. So ray is for famous people. But I interrupted you saying Hinge.
Hinge is like kind of a new ish one. It doesn't have that many users, but it's probably the one. I want to say. All the hot people are on Hinge. Like they have this section on Hinge called the Rose Jail. Well we call it the Rose Jail. Well they'll put the hottest people you've ever seen in your life in
this little section where you don't just swipe right on them. No, no, no, you have to put yourself out there and hand them a rose, a digital rose, and you only get one rose a week, so when you give them a rose, they know it's so bad.
I have anxiety dreams about being on the apps. I've met my partner before the apps were around, and so I've never been on the apps before. And sometimes I'll have recurring anxiety dreams about I have to get on the apps and I've never done it before.
That is so unfortunate for you. I feel really bad.
Yeah, have you ever given a rose?
Look? There's been some dark times in my life.
It's late.
Sometimes you just see a guy on Hinge and he's not only hot, but he also just has the right prompts. Right, he's got like feminists in this profile. Yeah, he's got I've only got sisters in this profile.
What's the prompt?
So Hinge has all of these, like probably a thousand questions that you can choose from, and then you can reply to them and have that on your profile. So it's like my ideal date will look like right beach and movies, and a lot of people are really witty in that. The thing is you have to be really funny because you have to show your sense of humor.
So you no longer have to write your own profile. You take answer a few questions.
Yeah, they make it easy for you. And then sometimes when you're like three wines in two am, you just want to give a rose. Sometimes you'll pay and give two roses because you want to say, God pay. I also pay for hinge, so it's around the same cost as bumble.
I know you need to pay. You need to pay Rise.
Text talking about it, right, Rose, what happened?
Nothing happened? Because I look like a loser, sweetie. No one wants to accept my rose.
There's a new documentary on Netflix called train Wreck Poop Cruise.
Can I just say something before we continue. I'm looking at the script right now, and all your notes are bolded.
That's because they're all really important. Have some respect for the content.
Netflix has been trying to get me to watch poop Cruise. Keep serving me poop Cruise. Watch poop Cruise.
I think that says a lot about you, Alegorithm too.
I feel as though, em it's right up your Alley. I feel like you'd love it. A bit of a geagle, all right. I will never stop thinking about this documentary. And I'll say, you don't need to watch it. It's like an hour long. It's quite short. Now, if you're squeamish, or if you really want to watch this documentary fresh and really enjoy it for everything it has to give,
then maybe skip forward. But otherwise I would like just two minutes of your time, okay, to tell you about what happened on a poop cruise in twenty thirteen.
I'm so excited, all right, this is what happened thirteen.
That's when it was set by documentary. It's about history. Some of us have some respect for history, all right. Two hundred people get on a cruise Texas to Mexico. Beautiful sunny day, sun's out, warm, lovely.
Nice, big pool.
In the doco, there are these women who are on a hen's party. Right, they're having great time. They get off in Mexico, they have a few drinks and a lot of drinks. Actually, they get back on the cruise and they're like, this is actually heaven. And then at five am there's an alarm and they're like, oh, what's this about. There's banging on the door.
Get up, Get up.
Everyone has to evacuate. You have to get on the deck. So get on the deck and they see one of the I don't know what you call it on a cruise. It's like got a big titanic like boulder. Yeah, yeah, smoke coming out.
Oh fine, like a chimney, like a chimney on my emergency.
Yeah, emergency emergency.
And they're in the middle of the ocean.
And they're in the middle of the ocean, so they start panicking. But then they go, you know what, fire's out. We're all good. Yeah, you just go get a coffee, get a cocktail, whatever you want. They're like, great, great, great. Some of them go to go back to bed. Boom, lights out, air con out, power out, and they go, this isn't good. We're on a cruise. They're like, don't worry, engineers are going to go fix it. Engineers go downstairs. Not good, everything is broken. They are now in the
middle of the ocean, loading with no electricity. They then discover very quickly that the toilets will not flush a right, and so the person who's like running the cruise, this lady gets over the loudspeaker and goes, We're going to need you to wei in the shower. Oh, and poop in these red plastic bags that we're about to distribute. No, no, and soep.
Just pooping the toilet and then just not flush it.
Well, some people started doing that, and that's where we come to the term poopler's on you, because what was happening is someone was going toilet paper, going toilet paper, going toilet paper, and they were like, no, no, no, do it in your red bag. And everyone was like, I'm not pooping in a red bag, surely not. What happens to the red bags you have to throw them out in bins that are in the corridor. So within hours, the whole cruise smells of human excrement and everyone knows
what your bowel movements look like exactly. You're on your honeymoon. Oh, I'm going to go get my red bag.
It's not hot.
Can I just talk about the location, because nothing okay to get TMI. There are certain foods that make my stomach go.
They had just come from Mexico, they've just come from and also Texas meat. Yeah, and also how much they've been drinking, right, so I think it's a particular brand.
When she has to poop in a bag, would you sit on the toilet?
I think so, right, so you'd still I thought it was like a nappy situation.
For anyone who's had to do an over fifties poop test, which the government sends you in Australia. If you're listening from Australia, that's kind of what you do.
Yeah, you put it in the toilet. Yeah, right, So that's what they start doing. A lot of people you poop, think they're too good for bags, right anyway, so it starts to smile really bad, and then of course it's too hot, so everyone starts getting their mattresses and putting them on the deck. But they're like, you know what, we're going to get towed back to Mexico tomorrow. It's fine,
it's just one night. They wake up and they're like, okay, just something bad happened, which is that the ship has started drifting in the wrong direction because it's not it's not working. So what we need to do.
It's the weight of the ship.
How many people on the on the four thy two hundred people and you go what like three times? What are they eating, there's no three times a day.
You have quite decent bowel movements. I take a to Metamucile.
There's no refrigeration, so they're having like these shitty sound not literally shitty sandwiches, but they're having crap sandwiches.
And then are they having the crap sandwiches to make them all constipated?
So no, no, no, just because they have no good food because they have no refrigeration, so they're having to throw everything out of god a tactic. So then they're like, look, we're gonna be real, it's gonna be another four days. It's gonna be four to eight on a hoop cruise. Another cruise comes past to give them supplies because at this point they're like, we don't even have any food for these people.
Give them supplies, but you're not getting on as show.
No no, and they start getting Wi Fi so they start posting about poop cruise and then the story goes like it goes absolutely.
Why did we not hear?
But the time get worse because the cruise is like, you know what, we're about having a good time. So what I think we should do is open the bar freebooze for everyone that did not go well. Someone poops in a bag, they could throw it off the hedge. The wind blows out lands on someone who can't.
Have a shower.
Shower jump in the ocean. At this point, I'm.
Jumping in the water.
They're swimming to Eventually.
The boat comes to tow them.
They need.
Now.
What happens is the boat imagine a towing The boat kind of goes at an angle, and all the urine in the showers, which hasn't been draining because it can't drain, goes and it is raining urine down wall. It's there is footage if someone getting out of their bed and they are deep in urine. All the poop from the bins falls out of the bins and goes in the hallway. And people are on CNN going e COLI like this is not caught, Like what are you going to do?
People who had children, they so many people were kids. It was so so bad. And then eventually they got back to the thing. They get off the cruise, they tell this, so they all have pink ei. They must like, can you imagine every time you would pooh in a normal toilet, you would go, oh my god, trigger.
I would never shit again.
And I just think the moral of this story is like the moral, I love the story no matter how bad you were kids. Yeah, you're having a bad moment. You feel how stress poolas aren't you? You just go you know what, At least I'm not on the poop cruise. That's my new mantra. Po needs meditation. At least I'm not on the poop cruise.
Well, out louders, We've learned so much today in crazy loads that m poops three times a day. I'd like to know what the average amount of poos per day? People do? I think she's got a last run today. I think I think I've just looked it up as we're talking. The average is once or twice a day.
So and you are officially on top of the poop lady boy, I'm officially above average.
A big thank you to all of you the out louders for listening to today's show, and our fabulous team for putting this show together. We will be back in your ears tomorrow.
Bye Aye. Shout out to any Mum and me A subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want to support us, subscribing to Mom and Mia is the very best way to do so. There's a link in the episode description.
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