You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to Mama Mia out Loud and to our Friday show. Now, our Friday show is where we take a break from the news cycle. We're not talking about anything newsy, anything you're going to see on any news sites. We are chilling on Fridays. That's what we do because we all know that's what we want to do as we head into the weekend.
And today is Friday, the sixth of December, and I'm Holly Waynwright and I think we're going to put the tree up this weekend, even though for my liking it's still a week early.
Oh no, no, no, I'm Jesse Stevens and I'm still thinking about whether we're going to do a tree because a lot of work, but I love the smell.
You got to do a tree.
And I'm m Burnham filling in for me today and a tree won't fit in my apartment or.
Out Loud. Before we get into today's show, we have general admission tickets on sale now for our tour. We have been teasing you for what feels like weeks. It's Mamma out Loud Live twenty twenty five. They all are nothing to are presented by Nivius Cellula. We're heading in May to Perth, to Sydney, to Brisbane to Melbourne and my advice is to buy tickets now. We cannot believe how quickly they are selling. They are at out loudlive dot com dot au. We will pop the link in
our show notes. See you there.
You can get your mates together or you can go on your own, because we've got this like single ladies situation where we do a meetup.
I'm leading the charge.
Come, come, come on the show today. What is the sibling wealth gap and is it the root of all your family arguments? Also, our recommendations include a plea not to buy anything, some things you should buy and potatoes. Also letting down a friend are very much needed, catch up with another friend and Jesse's cheating on us with us It's best and worst of the week, but first and Vernon.
In case you missed it. It's that time of the year where we collectively remember that dictionaries do in fact still exist.
They dorategy. It's beginning of December. It's a big week for Colin's.
True, I can't believe there's still so many out there, Like truly, we're oversaturated with dictionaries now. But all the major players in the dictionary world release their words of the year this year, so unlike our individual words of the year, it's like society's word of the year, and it's usually a word that's chosen that has been most in the zeitguist that they presume. So I've got the list of all the words, and we may as well start with Colins now.
So time to shine.
Colin's word of the year is Bratt.
Colin's that was word of like Jiljuly. I know the problem with the zeit guys these days is it moves too quickly. We need like a word of the month, the week, the hour, like a year is too long.
Bratt feels totally. It feels like my grandfather has just been like what and I'm like.
Okay, what about dictionary dot Com. They're word of the year is demure.
You see how you do my makeup for work? Very demure, very mindful. I don't come to work with a green cut crease, don't look like a clown when I go to work. I don't do too much. I'm very mindful of while I'm at work.
Demure.
No, I'm still saying demure excep. I'm not ironically now I put it into sentences.
All right, So do it for me. Give me an example of how you were using demure in December twenty twenty four.
I really like that lipstick you're wearing. It's quite demure. Okay, it sure, Cambridge is manifest I thought that was two years ago.
Oh, I think it's very two years ago. But again, look, I love dictionaries because I like the current spelling and I like words. But who are these people and culture? Because I feel as though they're around the water cooler and they're like, have you heard the word manifest And it's like, no one under seventy two worked at your workplace, and that word is not really.
Although maybe if manifestos or everyone was doing two years ago, maybe this year they're manifestations.
I'm true. Maybe, so it's actually working. And Macquarie said the word of the year is en shitification, my favorite one.
Tell us this is my favorite one. So I first heard of in sertification with the other out louders when our friend Amelia Lester brought it up on this very show. We know that she is ahead of her time since she said it. It is everywhere. Like I went and got a sandwich over the weekend at a place where I used to go twelve years ago when I used to live near there, and the sandwich, from the bread to the meat to the paper was just shit. It was just forty five percent shitter than it ever was
and two hundred times more expensive. This is actually a real phenomenon where the products we're using are getting shitter because there's a consumer incentive because they want us to buy more. So the quality of our clothes is and worse the quality of our tech because they want us to swap it out more and more frequently.
But you know, in another way it works. There's a lot of experiences we have whether they're like, we're making it more efficient and easier for you, but it becomes shitified in the process. An example of this for me is self serve checkouts. It's like, yes, it might be better for you guys to be able to employ fewer people, but now every time I go to the supermarket to do my family shop, it's like unexpected item in the
bagging area. It's like, too many things in that bag and you've got to take it off and put more things in. It's like that won't scan. It's like my life is shitter because of that. Yeah, and shitification of shopping.
And let's also say that we've laid all those people off to service. Did our groceries get shaped on?
Nah? But have you been lately?
Oh?
I love that you just hover the thing.
Yeah, that's magic.
That is the reason why you don't have an issue with self serve checkouts is because you're not doing a big shop a yeah, not buying three things. Self checkouts are the best thing that ever happened. If you're trying to buy a trolley load of shit to feed your family, it doesn't work.
No, you're working for free.
So Oxford was the last one to release their work because like we're the big boys. Yeah, you have to wear wait and then when you go on the website, they're like, oh, what's it going to be and you have to scroll down. Their word was like a guess two words brain rot, which I quite like.
I like this.
Why is that a word? This year?
I think it describes the communal sense we all have that there is something very bad happening to our brains as a result of how we live our lives. And it reminded me of an interview I listened to a while ago about how the overstimulation of everything that we're
looking at is making our brains like literacy. The fact that we can read is a very modern invention, and it's due to like neuroplasticity and all of that, and was saying that what our brains used to do is that I read a chapter of my book last night, I'll read a chapter tonight, and because our brains had this real estate to think and to comprehend, it would put together all these connections and then I'd get back into bed and my brain would go, oh, I remember
we were here in the chapter. Our brains can't do that anymore. They're actually looking at how our brains are changing. And because of all the content I've consumed between then and tonight, I will take ages to try and.
Pick it up again.
Yeah, and so our brain's literally rotting. Not to be too interesting nihilistic about it. If you're feeling some tension in the lead up to Christmas, your family dynamics feel a bit off. There are arguments about presents or what you're doing for lunch. Then it could be due to a phenomenon known as the sibling wealth gap. So what
is the sibling wealth gap? In an article published on Mayor this week, it is defined as the differences in financial resources, income or savings between siblings, and often this can give to some very complicated feelings. Imagine there's a sibling who earns exceptionally more than the others and they feel the pressure to pay for everything all the time. Or the older sibling has always paid for dinner whenever run is out together, but in fact it's the youngest
now who is earning nearly double their salary. There might be a sibling who financially supports the parents, especially if they require additional care. And what if you don't approve of how your sibling spends their money, complaining that they have no savings, but they also appear to have a
problem with online shopping. According to a career builder survey, older siblings tend to earn more than younger siblings, and things like exchanging gifts can be especially tricky for what's been termed cross class siblings, and that is why Christmas can be a very awkward time. Yes, m do you think that there are some unwritten rules when it comes to the sibling wealth gap and how we navigate it within families? Are you shouting your family all the time because high flying Jeff Bezos character.
I actually actually do. I do shout my family quite often. My sister never does. She's younger, she's young, She's six years younger. So I've always been the one. If it's me and my sister, I'm always the one who pays for dinner, who buys all the stuff, who like she stays over at my house and I like provide her breakfast and stuff like that. She's only like been one year into her career, so she's earning money. But that
slowly started to change this year. But I think that's because my mum had a word with her and I was like, hey, maybe sometimes you can shout m dinner. But I think we're also very different. I'm pretty fast and loose for my money. Like my love language is gift giving, So every now and then I do buy my family like dinner and stuff like that, Whereas she's very conservative with her money and she's always like, hey, remember to transfer me that one dollar or we split that thing.
I expect that sibling. Can I ask a question, do you and your sister know each other's salary? Yes? To the dollar to the dollar?
Yeah?
Really yeah, yeah yeah.
It's not very British, is it.
Oh my god? No, I don't know and absolutely not. I think what's interesting about this is your attitude to money, in theory comes from your upbringing. But nature nurture plays out in this a lot too, because my brother, who's two years older than me and I, since we were tiny kids, have had a fundamental personality difference that was very well illustrated by a packet of chocolate biscuits. Right, So every month my dad would go and do the
big monthly shop, you know, Tesco or whatever Asda. He'd buy like four packets of chocolate digestives and we got two each, but that was it for the month, right. I would eat all my chocolate digestives in the first three days, and my brother would ration his chocolate digestives out through the month to make sure he never ran out, and if I wanted one, he would be like, I
give you one, you have to give me two. Like it was always like that, and then he had more money when we were teenagers, because I would spend all my pocket money and he would save his. And then if you lent me any money, he'd say, you have to pay me back with interest. So we had exactly the same upbringing.
He's a finance brain, so you're doing it.
But we had completely different attitudes to money, and that has played out throughout our lives. Is that he might say, and this is the thing is it's not a sibling wealth gap. Isn't always about how much money you have. It's what you do with it. Right, So it's like I remember years ago he'd be like, Oh, we can't afford to come and visit you, which is fine, Like, of course it's really expensive. In my mind, I'd be like, oh, he just put that on your credit card. But he's like, oh,
I would never do that. Like we've got a mortgage. I pay the mortgage. You know what I mean. It's that it's a different attitude to life money savings that is just fundamentally different.
I think that's when it gets awkward. And also they can be outward signs of money, say one sibling lives in a bigger house or drives a nicer car, but you can never actually know unless they explicitly tell you the inside details of someone's finances because they might have a really big mortgage or like be sending kids to really expensive schools and so in terms of disposable income and being able to shout dinner, yeah, they could live in a very different way. But it's interesting. We are
exactly the same as you am. Like would know exactly how much everyone earns, and I wonder if the dynamic becomes more.
I don't know what anyone in my life earns really, like literally none of my friends, none of my family. Brent, I know what he earns because like obviously, but like it's not something that I ever would talk about with.
Oh that's that terrible I talk about with all my friends. And it's funny because you don't want it to set up a dynamic which is, oh, you just got to pay rise and you're paying for tie, like you don't necessarily do your parents know?
Yeah?
Yeah, but this is the thing about my parents, And this is why I think this part of the equation is important. If your parents think that how much you earn as a measure of success, I think that's when shit gets messy, because the issue isn't that one sibling earns more and one earns less. It's that siblings start to think that you're the golden child and I'm the
black sheep because I don't earn as much. And in families, it's like there is almost nothing more egalitarian than your childhood in terms of you get the same amount of pocket money, You live in the same house, your Christmas presents are roughly the same amount of money, your class consciousness is very much the same. Then you go out into the world and you're just thrown into totally different
worlds based on your interests. Sometimes it's not even like this sibling intended on making money, it's just they fell into it, or maybe they married rich, or they wanted to.
Go into finance and you wanted to be a starving artist, yes exactly.
Or there's this dynamic and this plays out in my family a lot, which is there's a teachers. I come to the dinner table and I would earn more than my brother's earn, who are primary school teachers, an early education teacher, but it is implicitly understood that what they do is more important. So it's like I'm buying the coffees as a thank you for yourself to the community, but there is this definite like disparity.
Yeah.
I think with my parents, I think the money thing is still there. I think it's a generation thing or maybe an immigrant thing as well, where it is seeing like the more money you make, the more successful you are. But also I know that they weren't making as much money. I was at their age as my age now when they were my age, So it feels like I'm in this limbo stage where I'm waiting to get to that age where they're going to be like, wait, should you be making more money now?
Oh?
Like where they hit because of the way that their career trajectory went. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
And I've also noticed it changes a lot when your sibling gets a partner. I remember I would always buy gifts of Christmas or Birthdays that I think were more expensive than my sister, and then I think if for the past two years the gift giving was kind of similar in price, but then she would have her partner's name on the gift as well, and I was like, oh, interesting, and I want to know, like do they actually contribute.
To that gift.
Well, if you've pulled your finances and they have, then I suppose that they have. But what you're speaking to I saw it referred to as couple's privilege, which sounds silly, but I think it's really legitimate. If you're in a couple, if you're married, then your financial situation is really different to someone who's single, from rent to petrol to everything.
So in a family, when you're talking about I don't know, contribution to a family holiday or contribution to parents' age care, a single income is very different to a double income. So I think it can be really hard. I have a lot of mates who are single who are looking at buying their own house. It's near impossible, like it can't be done.
It can't be done. It's really different. The thing I'm interested in, right, because everybody's definition to a point, depending on where you live and where you came from, what's a good salary and what's not a good salary and all those is very relative, right, I mean, particularly at the moment, even people on good salaries and inverted commas living in a city like Sydney would find it very hard to afford all kinds of things. Right, So if we assume that all of that's relatives, so there's you
don't really know what are the politics? What is the etiquette of families who have the sibling wealth gap? As in, should it be the thing that, like, if you earn more, you buy dinner. Should it be the thing that if you married rich, then you should pay for aged care? What's the dynamic there? Do you know what I mean?
I know a family where so let's say most of the siblings were very well off and established financially. They weren't rich, but they were comfortable, and the sibling that was not as well off financially cared for the aging parent for years and years and years, and the resources the time that everything that was invested in that was significant. And then when money was left, when there was an inheritance left, all of those siblings looked at each other
and went, she gets the money. Yeah, And I like that idea.
That that's why I think that's very fair. Though that's very fair, some families would not do that.
And I think that a few things are at play. Firstly, they recognize the value of what is unpaid work. Also, they didn't have any issues with how she spent her money. I think that that can be a really awkward thing because I.
Think that's one of the issues. Is one of the problems here are not necessarily about the sums, but the judgment. So if you're saying I can't afford that, but then you're looking at mine and I don't mean me, but someone's looking at your shoes and go, well, how could you afford that? I would hate that. Yeah, people being thosey into your life, but like, how do you navigate that.
A family that I'm close to, when they had a young family, they were very frugal to try and put money on the house and you know, like pay down debt and all of those things. So they were often saying I can't contribute to this, and I can't contribute to that. But now on the other side of that, they've paid off their house and have no debt, right, so they now have more money than the people who were splashing the cash.
A thing is it changes all the time, and so I feel as though pretending like it doesn't exist, pretending how much money that, how much money you have in your bank account doesn't fundamentally change the way you live your life and what you can give them what you can't is kind of ridiculous. Like, especially if you spend a lot of time together. And when it comes to
Christmas too. I think that the other element this comes into plays when you've got cousins and you go, is this set of cousins going to live a totally different life to this set of cousins? Like I also think what I've noticed is that in a bunch of my friends there is the rich uncle. That's what they call him. He's a rich uncle, and it's like he has all of these resources, which in particular times have come in really handy, often in health crises. So they've gone, there's
a big issue with mum or dad. Rich uncle sweeps in and goes, all right, I've sorted it money wise, and then the sibling who might not have as much money, feels as though they have to overcompensate with time, so with the labor of it all with the time with the person, because they know that they can't pay for it. And I look at that and I go, I know which one's harder, and it's the time. And in that way, sometimes I think throwing around the money and not actually
talking about it can make things worse. Like you've actually got to sit down and go ten K to this person is not the same as ten thousand dollars to this person, because otherwise resentment and jealousy and offense confess to where people kind of go you think I can't afford it. It's like, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that I'm in a position right now where I can.
Yeah, or like even the other side where like if the rich uncle pays the ten k, then someone else will be like, well, when I was really really sick and needed to be yeah, yeah, and like where does it end? I feel like that also breeds nastiness and families as well.
Well, feeling as though there's an expectation. I think that's why people probably don't want to be honest about what they've got, because then it's like, well do I have an expectation to? And my nephew want to gap you like, do I like? Where does it end?
Would you be? You know, how you were saying, how you know what all your family earned? And you like, would you be offended if your family didn't want to tell you?
I would assume they had a lot of money.
I don't know how much my parents make, and they also won't tell me and my sister and we are really all the time, like we ask all the time.
I wouldn't know, but I don't know.
It's a weird thing.
I thought it was a generation thing.
Oh I think we should walk around with our salaries on our head.
I love to always joke with my friend group. We always joke about who's going to be the rich friend one day, and none of us have any idea what each other earned. But it's like if someone gets a pay rise or a windfall or wind we're always like, oh, you're going to be the rich friend and they're like no, no, no, Like one day, Holly, you'll sell a book to Hollywood and you'll be the rich friend. And I'm like, oh, you know, maybe.
Like who pays for the inn holiday exactly?
Who shouts when we go on our weekends away and stuff? But yeah, no, not one of us are the rich friend at this.
It's still time, Holly. What do you think you do at Christmas time?
Though?
If there are multiple siblings and there's a gap, whether it's presence, whether it's whose house, Because that's the thing, it's the person who's got the biggest house that ends up having to host it every year.
Often everyone just needs to move to Chris Kringle, and there's a price limit. It's the only way. It's the only way it works.
Yes or no gifts. We don't do gifts.
I like it.
Out louders in a moment. We're recommending things for your weekend, and Jesse has two which contradict each other. It's Friday, so we want to help you set up your weekend with our best recommendations. Whole what do you have?
Potatoes?
He love potatoes, baked potatoes, hot shits, cold chips.
I love potatoes too, And you know, I'm just going to say it because I think it's a gen X thing. But like we grew up with Oprah like shouting at us from magazines that you should eat potatoes because you know, carbs were evil and all that, there is so much
joy in potato. I love the What's favoritecifically? The reason, well, let me tell you, because the reason I'm recommending potatoes, because I know that seems weird, is that we are in my one of my favorite seasons on Instagram, which is last year, I discovered this Instagram account called Poppy Cooks, and she is this young chef called Popio Tool. She's British. She lives in Birmingham. She's one of those internet chefs,
you know. And what she does every Christmas, it's like an advent calendar for potatoes is she does twenty four Christmas potato dishes and every day there's a new one, and it's just videos, like drool worthy videos of potato dishes.
It's my little Christmas joy. So one day she'll do like glass roasted potatoes, you know that have really crispy bottoms, and another she'll do like mash dripping with butter, and then she'll do loaded roast potatoes, and then she'll do potato roasties and then and I don't I can't cook all those things, and I'm not gonna cook all those things, but I love looking at it.
It's like all of the joys from watching.
It's comfort from comfort food, you know what I mean. And it's like anyway, So if you also love looking at delicious food on Instagram, I'm recommending Poppy cooks twenty four days of Christmas potatoes on Instagram. You'll only have two what's the day today? It's like the eighth or something, isn't it. You'll only have eight to catch up on. And then every day, you'll have a potato tree in your Instagram.
So I can addvan calendar, but it's a picture of potato.
Oh my god. And then one of those dishes I might make for Christmas. But also I just liked looking at it just makes me happy.
My recommendation. I have two that are in total contradictions. So my first is a documentary on Netflix that all the out louders told me to watch and they were right. It's called Buy Now. I think watch it with your family as like a learning experience for everyone, and it will explain to them why you're not buying their Christmas presence this year. Okay, buying this stuff feels great, right.
The problem is that every year we're.
Consuming more, producing more, and there's a flip side to.
That that no one wants.
You to see. I was president of the Adidas brand. I started at Apple.
I worked at Amazon for fifteen years.
It's a highly refined science to get you to buy stuff.
They know you like we know you.
It is a docco about consumption. So it's like the remember the Social Dilemma, which was all about social media. It's that but for over consumption, and it's about all the ways that we're manipulated into buying more. How technology has purposely made it impossible to change the batteries, so like you know, you can't change a battery of a phone or whatever. You've got to throw it out and get a totally new one. And sittification andification and what
fast fashion is doing to the planet. There's this incredible scene with a woman who lives in Ghana. You can see the shores of Ghana. Just it'll make you feel sick the clothes, the clothes that are there, and not even the clothes washing ghag because the amount of clothes that are being produced every minute around the world, and these often these are clothes that have never been worn. It's just like this thing of I'm giving them away. There is no and this is what they're saying that
there is no way. Where do you think it's going. You know where it's going the shores of Gunner, so you see the water and just shoes and toys and clothes and everything, and she's just standing there, going, we have enough clothes. Stop making clothes. We don't need any more clothes. And then of course it comes down to how all this stuff is getting into our waterways and blah blah blah. It's very very front.
It's a good job, isn't here? Oh yeap, you're telling it to stop buying clothes immediately. Wouldn't go down?
It is very depressing and is.
There anything like look, I hope.
My big takeaway is that it is the giants that need to do something. We can try our best to recycle. Our recycling is doing jack shit. It's like we need to put pressure on the big brands to actually have really sustainable policy and buy less. I have a feeling that that trend's coming, though I reckon this o consumption things.
Yak.
It's like, I think.
You're right, and I know that there are pockets of the community obviously who've been really rabbing that hard for a while now buy less by less, But they're up against this overwhelming wave of.
Power, and you know, and this thing of those giants, because there's a lot of whistleblowers who have come out from the big brands. Their thing that they create a product and then once it's on a shelf, they clear their hands of it. It's like people are going, no, that's not how it works. What then happens to that thing when someone has drunk out of it or eaten the thing and the plastic still, Like, what are you
going to do with it? Anyway, if that's making me feel depressed, and I have something to see you up, which is a product Jesse, I'm sorry, this is just this was one of my friends was like, watch by now, and then three messages later she was like, this is the last thing I'll say, but just like, buy this. It'sfoliating thing. And anyway, I looked at it and I reckon it took me two seconds. I bought it in store, which is slightly better for the environment.
Hold up, because I haven't watched the documentary. Buying in store is better for the environment?
Yeah, because it's not being sent to your yeah, packaging. Okay, So I went in store because I am great Tomberg. So I went in and I got it. Is called the Wren Micropolish Cleanser. Are in Urrian, that's brand, and get it from Mecca. You get it from Mecca, and she said, you've got to try. This is giving my skin this amazing glow. And because it's the time of year where we're wearing a lot of sunscreen, more sunscreen than maybe we ordinarily do. I was getting blocked paws
and I just lots of blemishes. I use this for a couple of weeks, all gone, all the little clog little ducks, and I get quite obvious black heads on my nose. I've tried it every letter of the alphabet I have tried on my nose to get rid of them. Nothing's ever fixed them. This has reduced their appearance. I was looking in the mirror yesterday and I was like, this is the only thing that's ever worked on them.
Like, am I wearing a filter?
Yes? And then I started getting anxious because I was like, maybe this is bad for the environment. So I sent it to Lee Campbell and I went, I know microbeads are bad. Does this have microbs? No, it doesn't. It's all organic and class so you're allowed to use it. It is called the ren Micropolish Cleanser. The price varies the where you get it from between about forty five and fifty five, which is not cheap, but it might be a little bit of a Christmas present, and it's
like giving yourself an at home facial. It's so good.
Okay, my recommendation.
Are we buying things? Yeah?
Well, well, saving and buying in a nice way. So I want to recommend an app called cart It.
It's a free app.
That you can download and what you do is that when you're thinking about buying something online.
Okay, so let's use what I've got an example for you. Yeah, I've been eyeing off a particular pair of shoes for a long time, but they're not cheap.
Great, that's a great example. You copy the url, you paste it in this app, and it will notify you when there's a discount.
And it's so good.
You can make lists and you can make group So I have like a list for my mum, my dad, my sister, and it's just like things that I think they'll be interested in. And then I just wait for things to be discounted. And I like, for the past like three weeks, I've only bought discounted things.
So the reason why this is really good and give them the trail, tell us Jesse, because we're not buying now. No buy now is all about taking away any resistance to the buying. So what they've tried to do is that you're sitting in bed, you think of something and you can buy with that.
They do it, We all do it. And especially you know when I do that when I'm tired and emotional.
Yes, so it used to be you have to go to the shop, blah blah blah. What I like about this is that we've got some time to think. Yeah, and we're just slowing down and we're waiting for the discount rather than like impulsively just buying what we need. So I feel like you're paying various.
And what I've noticed is that I actually delete stuff off my list that don't get discount because I get pissed off. Yeah, like be discounted, I'll get off my list so I don't buy it.
That's so good in the lead up to Christmas.
Yeah, and called against Carted great And it's a free apt a free app easy after the break.
Our best and Worst, or as we like to call it, our Win and winch of the Week.
One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week. And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers. So this is the time of our Friday where we can delve into our personal lives a little bit more. In case you haven't heard enough about us this week. Really Emily vernon, what were your best and worst of the week this week?
My worst of the week is I disappointed a friend last week, and she called me out on it.
Because you're a really good friend and your friends are very important to you. Yes, what did you do?
I didn't realize I was doing this, and I shouldn't because I call people out who do this to me. But I was meant to get dinner with this friend for a while now, and I kept doing the whole I'm so sorry, something's come up. I'm so sorry. I'm really tired. I'm so sorry. I just can't make it. And then I did the thing of like December is so crazy for everyone, Like I have so many work events, I'm catching up with everyone, I have all this family stuff. Do you mind if we just catch up in the
new year. And she called me out because I've seen like a lot of people say, like it's so busy for everyone. Everyone just like move everything to the next year, like,
don't worry about meeting anyone. And she said that she is someone whose culture doesn't celebrate Christmas, and she also lives in Australia by herself, like a family live overseas, so she doesn't have a lot of people here, and she's like, to be perfectly honest with you, like I don't have anyone here, and every time it's December and Australia, I feel like everyone who's puts me on hold till the next year. I'm good on her for saying, yea, I love her, like she's one of my best friends,
and I'm so glad she said that. And it just made me realize that just because a lot of us who I guess celebrate Christmas always say it's so busy, it's not for everyone, Like there are so people who actually aren't busy this year, and they're just waiting for the rest of us to stop being busy.
You know why that's particularly interesting him is because you might assume, and this is like cultural ignorance lots of ways, that it's not about celebrating Christmas. It's about the fact that suddenly everyone seems to be having parties and all those things, but they are all like culturally related to Christmas, right, And if that's not your thing, you know, then it's it's a different act.
And depending on your stage of life, Like there are some people, yeah, that might be going to Christmas parties or kids things or friends things, and then there are others who might not have anything on. And actually it's just a really depressing time of year because you're also comparing yourself to everyone.
And they're like, Okay, I'll just wait for you till jan I guess, like everyone else.
What did you say? How did it go in this conversation?
So I was like, you're so right, and I thanked her, and I like immediately canceled, like to other friends that night so I can hang out with her, because I was like, yeah, so it's so fair, And I'm like every year, I feel like if you're in this like huge Christmas thing that I am with my family where I always complain about how to go to family and see family or time, it's actually quite a privilege. And if you have a friend that just wants to hang out, just hang out with them.
I like that. She said it, Yeah, so what's your best?
My best is? Oh my god, this is so bad. I went on to pitt Street Mall on the weekend and oh, by now, literally it was in the midst of like that between of like Black Friday sales and Cyber Monday sales. Yes, and it was my best because I feel like everyone who lives in the city of goes in the city on the weekend during this time of the year hate it. They're like, everyone's screaming, everyone's angry, no one can get what they want. And I love it, like,
I love it so much. I'm one of those people who just loves the hustle and bustle and the prams and the crying and the screaming and people yelling at me. It's like, fine, you're the second.
But I heard someone else in the office the other day saying I went in real life shopping on the weekend and I've forgotten how fun it was. So I reckon there's like.
A return and having for like years with the pandemic, and I'm like people watching and watching these families like absolutely hate their lives and they're like, they're like, get me out of the city, even though I have to buy all these gifts and these teenage boys complaining that their feet hurt because my mum gives trying on clothes. I love it.
It's great people watching.
It's so good. There is a buzz about Christmas shopping.
My worst this is a weird one. I was speaking to Holly and Mayer about this earlier this week that I've psyched myself out. Let me explain. Before I talked about this, I was like, maybe I'll be cryptic, and then I went, no, no, no, it's too hard. I'm just gonna be honest about it. I did a speaking event with Claire over the weekend, which was so much fun. We did a canceled live thing right and nothing went wrong.
But for some reason over that, I would say the last few years, my anxiety about speaking has really increased. And it's really weird because I think about being a kid, and I have always loved, even when I was shy, loved speaking in front of people, like I love the art of it. I like preparing for it. I like the audience.
It's a big part of your job.
Yeah, it's a big part of my job. And I've liked challenging myself and having mini goals and feeling like I'm getting better at a thing, and something has happened where I feel like I don't know how to get better at that thing, and I walk off stage often feeling like I've not done a good job, but I can't tangibly say what it was. And it's like I've got some weird psychological block or like just I've psyched myself out.
Has this like slowly started, it's happened or was it the thing at the moment?
But a friend said that she was like, did something happen that threw you off? And I'm like, I can't think of the moment. I've wondered if it is. Since having a baby, my anxiety levels are just generally higher, and when you get into that hyper arousal anxiety state, I'm just thrown into a state where I'm really uncomfortable in a way that I wasn't before. And that's affecting me, and it's affecting my focus. Like even on stage, I
feel like I'm being pulled. I'm very in my head and I can't get into the moment and I'm not enjoying it as much and I want to enjoy it and it's one of my favorite things. And so my week has been like, oh, I'm going to fix this. So I reached out to a bunch of friends who work in like stand up comedy, and I was like, what do I do, Like, surely I'm not the first person to ever experience this. Give me some advice. I reached out. This is so wanky, Holly's going to laugh.
I reached out to a performance psychologist. Honestly, you know you've lost a pot in December when you're sending an email of inquiry to a performance psychologist.
This is and I know that this is not a helpful thing to say, But anyone who has ever seen Jesse speak, like on the TV, on this podcast, in the live show, like at a million events that I've done with you, You're great?
How good does she want to be?
Anyway? I like this about you constantly and self improvement the performance psychologists.
She hasn't got back every yet. But then I reached out to my acting friend, who said, you teach me some breath work, and I was like, commer holidays, all sort of. I'm going to come back do a course with MEA and Holly. I'm gonna be like, guys, I have invented a course in performance.
By the time we go on tour next year.
I am gonna be Michelle O. No one's ever performed like Jesse, and I'm going to be in the toilet being like blah blah blah blah, like doing my It's gonna be amazing. Come to the Out Loud Live show. It's gonna be really interesting when I do a tap dancing routine. My best was on Sunday. I was going to take Luna to the park in the afternoon. Remember
there was that insane storm. There was hail. It just was like apocalyptic outside, and it was about two o'clock and I went, oh, no, I'm stuck inside with Luna. What are we going to do? I was like, We're just going to get in the bath for an hour. And I left the bathroom windows all open, so a bit of rain was coming in while I was sitting
in the bar. And we sat there and it was one of those idealic afternoons that you picture when you've got like a little kid and we just hung in the bath with their little boat and a little monkey. Lucal walk pass was like Jesi and Luna and we're just hanging in the bar like I have.
Nowhere to be.
Like ah, it was just the votes relaxing, fulfilling something. It was amazing. Holly, what was your worst?
My worst is related to a lot of what we've been talking about today. Actually, it's that this time of year, and it happens to us every single year. It's this whole how are you oh, just crawling to the end of the year.
We literally had this conversation today.
Everybody just says the same thing, including me, and for parents of school age kids. It is the time when everything like it's speech night, and it's Christmas Carols, and it's end of year assembly and it's graduation, you know, everybody's catch ups, and every year it gets to this time of year and we all just start to fall apart.
And it's funny, because it's not funny, but I'll share this because I'm sure there are other parents out there like this is that I can't go to a lot of the end of year things this year because of work, and you feel terrible about it, but also secretly.
They're really boring.
Well it's prettyuar. So my son Billy finishes primary school this year, which is a really big milestone, and I am sad that I can't go to quite a few things, but I also have to just face up to my life choices and I will be at work at those times, and so it's like a lot of emotional like push and pull and I should be at that and I shouldn't be at that. And then if you are the
person who's at them all, it's all the logistics. And if you've got lots of kids at different schools, like no wonder parents get to Christmas and just collapse.
Like can I ask have your kids outgrown elf on the shelf?
Well, of course they have, but we still have it. You still do it, yeah, because you know, we talked about one and now Matilda moves it around herself like it's like healthy. Because the thing is is, it's like what I've learned this year in particular with the age of kids around this is, you know the conversations we're having about Christmas trees and advent calendars is our Christmas traditions are now deeply embedded, so it doesn't really matter
whether they believe in it or not. They're like first of December, the elves arrivee, you know what I mean. So it's just kind of part of it now. But obviously the pressure is off in that super magical like where are they going to be? But we still have to do it because it's now become part of the thing.
But they're not up at five am looking for ELF anymore.
Well no, but Billy was excited to know if they were going to come, and then he wanted to know if they were going to change outfits, and he wanted to know if they were going to have this and that, and like he's too old to really believe, but it's just become part of the fun. So you lean into all that. But it is just another job. It's crazy. So anyway, my worst of the week is the crawling to the end of the year. I see you all. My best of the week is and this is a
big one. Right, So I went and had a mammogram on Friday. Because I'm fifty something, I now get alerts like one of the wonderful things about our wonderful health system, which you know it struggles at times, but once you're over fifty, you get free breast screens. Right, so you'll get a text that says you're due for your mammogram. Click this link, make an appointment, come along. I did
it on Friday. Couldn't have been easier, Like I just went to my local one down in an hour, in and out, five minutes, etc. The reason why this is particularly my best is because the best thing that happened to me this week actually is that I caught up with one of my good mates Lucy who you know Jesse, who we used to work with years ago, and she has just completed five months of chemo for breast cancer.
And she's way younger than me, She's like thirty seven, and she has no family history of it, and there was no reason to think that might happen to her. And she is not out of the woods. She has still got radiotherapy and surgery to come. But the reason why it's my best is she doesn't live in Sydney. She lives in Melbourne and we talk every day. I send her a little glimmer every day while she's been
going through this and we are in tos. But I hadn't seen her at all since she'd started her treatment. So I saw her because I went down to Melbourne for work and it was so lovely and we went out for dinner and she is like, you know how when you talk about people who are going through really hard things, and it's so you want everything to have this really neat narrative where.
It's like it's been harder now you're great.
It's been like it's been incredibly hard, and she's not great, but she's also like still here and doing really well, like in terms of just getting through it.
We're turning up at dinner, she picks.
Me up to the airport. We just were like, it's just so wonderful to see her and to be together and hear about all that, and I just feel so lucky. I'd say that everybody get your boobs checked, but I know that not everybody can just go and get the boobs checked the way that you can when you're my age. But if anybody is worried about anything in your body,
just go and check it out. But my best of the week, no question, is getting to hang out with my wonderful, brave, excellent mate Lucy, who still has some stuff ahead of her but has been through a lot this year. And we were talking about it, and it was one of those conversations where you're like properly deep conversations, but also where all the things that she's been through this year she'll always have with her, Like she can't believe the things that she's got through, you know.
Out of nowhere, because I and a lump I know and that's actually they say. I remember reading once that at the beginning of every new season you should check your boobs, because I think you meant to check four times a year, and it's summer, and it just this week summer. So I think it's a very good reminder for us all to check for any lump. Because she came across a lump at you know, mid thirties Zacht.
You just wouldn't ever think that was going to happen. No, So check your boobs, everybody, do the right thing.
But also life is good.
Yes, look, we have one last piece of exciting news for our out louders. What happens on this podcast sometimes is that Maya promises things and she doesn't follow through, and so our executive producer is left to pick up the pieces. Maya promised a few weeks ago that the best look alike we're talking about Doppelgang, it's you may remember, and do you remember who Mayor.
Looks like so many people but Rachel mcad yeah, yeah, But then I saw some photos and I'm like.
Mate, they were very carefully selective photos.
Doesn't look quite Rachel McAdams. Anyway, she said, the person who came up with the best doppelganger would get a prize, and we went through the mummea out Louders Facebook group to find the person who delivered, and the winner is a woman named Katie Scobel. Katie, can you please message us your address because we want to send you something very special. But she posted a picture of my doppelganger.
Actually, who was that?
Claire? I loved out loud it was so good. And then a lot of people actually said, you guys don't wannk that alike, and I was like, shut up anyway, so get in touch. We want to send you something because we are doing the job.
MAYA should special mention to the person who put in that picture of Matilda Brown that does look exactly like me? Or actually, oh really yeah? I was like wow, I thought it was lots of people. She really does look like lots of people. And I want to thank all the outlouders for not putting any pictures in of anyone who might look like me, because as discussed, it's fraught.
I think I saw someone put in a Rachel McAdams with brown hair thing and I went to roll my eyes and then it was like Mia Friedman and I was like get off, get out of this group.
A massive thank you to all of you out louders for listening to today's show. We're going to be back in your ears next week. Emily Vernon read us out.
A big thank you to our team, our group. Executive producer and snack queen Ruth Divine, who's best of the week was her husband starting a new job. It isn't a work from home job, so the house is cleaner and tidier because he's not there. Our executive producer Emily and Gazillas her best is a little smug because she's finished her Christmas shopping with humble brag.
Finished your Christmas shopping shore Dad, What do.
You need in a producer? Someone who finished can help.
Our audio producer is Leah Porge's annoying Holly by putting up a Christmas tree on the first of December.
First of December is just possible.
That's okay well, And our video producer Josh Green, his best of the week was fishing with family, catching a bunch of flathead fish and cooking it up for dinner that night.
Every stereotype I have about men.
Thank God is not single, because he would just have that fish photo he would Wow.
Impressive, Fu Louders, have a good weekend out loud as.
We know you're not ready to say goodbye, which is why we're sharing a sneak peek of yesterday's subscriber episode. Holly and I answered your burning questions in another edition of Ask us anything, including the alternate career paths we might have taken.
A psychologist there. I thought about that, and then and I know this is going to make me really unpopular for saying this. Too much winging, like I would find it frustrating. And I don't get me wrong, I've spoke to plenty of psychologists of my own winging, but I would find it a bit frustrating. I think if people were like, tell him and tell me, and I'd be like, Okay, what are we going to do about that? And then they just I might find the winging a bit of it.
I would find the winging annoying if the person before them had objectively bigger problems, like I think I would A link you will be in the show notes. Shout out to any Mum and me a subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want to support us subscribing to muma mia is the very best way to do so. There's a link in the episode description.