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Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Hey out Louders, it's me. Just before we start Friday's show, we wanted to send our love and support to all the out louders who are in Queensland and currently experiencing the flooding that he is happening across various regions, particularly in southeastern Queensland. There have been evacuation orders for many areas emergency declarations. There is terrible damage to infrastructure like roads and bridges, and travel and access to essential services
has been disrupted. It's also devastating agricultural areas. There are crops that have been damaged and livestock that have been lost, and there are likely to be long term implications for the local economy, which is just devastating. There are local communities and organizations that are mobilizing to provide support to those of affected and also relief. There are initiatives to collect donations and offer assistance to all the families that
have been displaced by the floods. So we will put a link to all of those in the show notes. Please help out if you can, and you might not have been aware of this because it is not receiving a lot of national news coverage. To be perfectly honest, when mortified that we didn't pick up on it, and thank you to the outluders who drew it to our attention. Otherwise we would have definitely spoken about it earlier in the week. So we're sending our love and support to
all the outlouders affected and hanging there. We are thinking of you. I was increasing way weightload of my handweight.
How can I just ask how much with five kilo dumbbells?
Wow? Just just me what you lift at the gym Arnold Schwarzenegger six Actually quite a bradst.
Hello and welcome to Mama Me are out Loud and our Friday show where we do not talk about anything in the news because the news is poop today, talk about other things.
It's Friday, the fourth of April, and my name is Hollywayen right, I'm Jesse Hi. Apparently I'm me afraid. I'm quite confused. Everything from me des that I just said that. I'm sorry. Okay, that's a good start on the show.
Today, celebrations of Hot Wives, sex tips only for married women, natural contraception and nap time friendly careers. Welcome to the new movement of conservative.
Cosmo media brands.
Also a very funny TV show, an instant Australian classic, and the most perfect audiobook experience imaginable. That's our recommendations and best and worst of the week, including Jesse having a weekend from Hell, Brent cutting my grass, and me I'm meeting her people, but first Jesse Stevens.
In case you missed it, the generations are fighting again, but this time it's about something that really matters. It's high stakes, all right, it's gym clothes. There's an argument brewing on TikTok and it is between millennials and gen z Okay again it is like the socks situation. It's the jeans all over again, but now it's about whether or not you wear tight clothes to the gym. Apparently it is a marker of your age.
So so a tight clothes say you're old or not?
Yes, Oh, they say that you're a millennial. So I acknowledge that this is ridiculous. But millennials apparently opt for tight on tight, So think like a cropped sports brass situation or a singlet and then like shorts or tights or whatever, whereas gens.
Like shorts like tight shorts.
Yes, gen z, they say that what's a lot cooler is to wear something tight on the bottom and then like an oversized teeth.
Oh my god, for the first time in a long time, I am young. I always wear a big, baggy T shirt and shorts to the gym. Well, apparently, Princess Diana, Yes, exactly right.
It's very ninety Apparently tight on tight is very middle school, and I have no idea what that means. I want to puff a fish for a moment about gym clothes because I cannot express how bad I look at the gym. I do not own a set, and if I did, I would never be able to find two of the things at the same time. When I the absolute are I have for women walking down the street in a gym set, I just want to bow down. They're both clean,
you look fabulous. Sometimes they match, Oh goodness, and I always imagine they just just arrived on their doorstep, because there's no way you do.
I always like it. I'm like, that's nice to look at. I appreciate the effort you've gone to before you go for your walk or your run. I don't go to the gym, so I don't when I'm in hotels. But the good thing about exercising at home, which I've done for almost thirty years now, is that you can wear your pajamas or your underpants, and I have regularly worn both.
You are the self appointed fashion cross the sports brah. What do you think about this? Do you think that wearing a set makes you look like you're a bit out of touch, like you're a milleniel.
I do think this is the problem, and it's why people don't want to go to the gym, because it's a whole other layer of choices and spending and decisions and insecurity that you don't need. I mean, you need to go and do your exercise and around a bit.
No place. It has no place in my gym. It is a sacred space. You can wear a potato sack. You can if you want, and they're not going to be comfortable a gym. Yeah, me too, That's my trick.
I pretend I'm invisible. I'm like one of those is it mere cats to stick the heads in the sand. Yes, No, that's somebody else's sticks.
I'm an ostrich. Mere cats do the opposite.
They pick up or a one mate, you know, if he spotted one, but it stays completely still because it thinks you can't see it.
That's what I'm like at the gym. Not a one bat does. The way it kills predators is that it runs really fast away and then it stops suddenly, and it's got such a sharp tailbone that the predator runs into its tailbone and is immediately killed.
There's something very relatable about that meat.
Ev is hot. She is slim with womanly curves. She looks really good in a low cut, milk made dress.
I bet she'd wear tight clothes to the gym.
She is married and her favorite thing about her husband is that he is obsessed with her. She likes skin care, makeup and manicures, gossip about pete millennial celebrities like Justin Bieber, and she's just stopped taking the pill. She works, but not too hard because the soft life beckons. She knows being a mum is better than being a boss. And she really doesn't like that new snow White movie even though she hasn't seen.
It, because he too woke. Yes, definitely too woke. Evie is not a person.
Evie is actually a magazine and a media brand that calls itself the conservative Cosmo or other people have labeled it that, and it's a celebration of femininity over feminism and over in the US. She actually Evie Magazine represents something a lot bigger, a sort of pushback that you're seeing through the rise of trad wife content and all those kind of things about the models of womanhood that are trump for vading generation is done with. So I'll just give you a couple of quick tastes of the
kind of things that Evi carries. So on the surface, if you followed their Instagram, a lot of the same kind of stories you'd see in media aimed at women anywhere, including bomamere, nail trends, whiteladus theories. But inside things are a little more ideological. Take for example, a beauty feature in our Beauty features are always the standard thing in women's bags, right. This one was written by Robin Riley, and it pushes back against body positivity and it celebrates
natural beauty. Here's a little extract without being able to hold objectively beautiful women up and celebrate their excellence we lose touch.
With our ability to create beauty in.
Our own lives. The more obese, over sexualized, and unhealthy women we hold up, the uglier.
The ordinary woman becomes. In response, interesting.
Young women in the West have never been more confused about what it means to be beautiful. Too often they think letting themselves go and not taking care of themselves is just fine, because we have beauty at any size.
Now, like Mey at the gym.
No, they also have sex tips, but they are labeled for married women only. And here's a little bit about a piece by millennial rider Delphine Chu about rejecting feminism. We women are not made for the daily grind. While men have a twenty four hour testosterone cycle, we have a four week cycle. There's a lot of cycle talk in Evie, which I'm sure we'll get to Jesse. That impacts everything for our energy level, sweet quality food cravings.
It took me my entire twenties to realize it was impossible for me to live, love.
Or lead like a man.
Evie's founders are deeply photogenic young married parents, Brittany and Gabrielle Hugo Boom, and they say that the conventional women's magazines are too feminist, two ideological, and too antique feminine.
Mia.
You were one of the absolute forefront leaders of women's magazines in Australia when they were a big thing. Did you think they were inherently political when you were editing.
Yeah, women's magazines. Well, some women's magazine were. Cleo and Cosmo were very transgressive when they first started, because when you go back to those times in the seventies and the eighties and the nineties when they were probably at their peak, there was no other women's media and there was no Internet. So if you were interested in anything through a female lens, anything about a woman's life. So it's a furfe to say that women's magazines were just
about beauty tips and sex tips. They weren't. They were also about career and relationship and sexual health, and health and contraception and breast cancer and stories about domestic violence and eating disorders, so anything to do with being a woman or a girl. If you wanted to know about it, the mainstream media didn't cover it, so you could only
find that information in women's magazines and girls magazines. As time went on, and certainly after the Internet came along, they became a little less relevant because they stopped reflecting perhaps the world as it was. But when I had a look at ev when you look at the covers, ev actually is a print magazine that comes out once a year, but it's a website and it mostly is a brand that lives online and social. For a bit of comparison, Cosmo in the US has about four million
Instagram followers. Evie has a couple of one hundred thousand, but it's definitely growing, and I think what it reflects is this very Megan Markele Ballerine of Farm Nara Smith tradwife idea, and ironically, all of those women I mentioned work incredibly hard and have businesses that make it seem like they don't work, and that kind of fetishizes the idea of expansive leisure and being able to take homemaking to this elevated level and making bath salts and decorating
cakes and you know, dressing nicely. And what's interesting about EV is that it also has a lot of sex tips. It has a disclaimer it's for married women only, because it's very obviously anti abortion, anti casual sex, anti contraception, you know, against all those things. So the subversive message is that this idea of traditional homemaking is the ideal state for women.
And I suppose it reveals that there was an inherent politics within the women's magazine and that we took for granted that that politics was quite left leaning.
I think in recent years, yes, like in the Internet era. Absolutely before that, I wouldn't argue that that was the case.
Yeah, and I agree, But I think it's interesting we see everything very much through a polarized political lens.
Now.
I think ideology is a closer thing because the women's magazines, you know, the whole idea of them was like, you can be anything you want to be, you go girl, right, like in lots of different ways, not in.
That literal language and choice feminism.
Yeah, And this movement is about trying to appeal to the women who are turning back towards what they call more feminine.
Value or have always been like that and have never felt reflected. So there are a certain portion of women, for example, who are pro life right and who have felt alienated by women's media. That broadly, if you're thinking you Jezebel, the cart Mum and me a like Cosmo Cleo, they are I mean, we've explicitly said it, but not
necessarily explicitly saying it. They're pro chose right, or they talk about contraception very liberally, and so this to me is a it's a swing back, but clearly they've acknowledged that there's a gap, and as we've said before, this is now the status quo. So I think that's why this started in twenty nineteen, we're now in twenty twenty five, and clearly it's met its moment in a way that it may be kind of.
Trying to, because what it is is it's marketing of a particular kind of idea of what a woman should be, and the idea of whether or not that's just reflecting something that's already there, or whether it's actually a political push.
It's a political push.
Of course it is, like because the truth of it is all the stats tell you that young women are actually more progressive than they've ever been, and that the gap between men and women when it comes to politics, the gender divide in political voting, particularly in America, is very start.
But whether or not these are the majority, I'm not saying this. I'm saying they exist.
They do exist. See I don't think this is the same as like make some jam. This is like reject feminism, stay home, submit to your husband. It's making conservative Christian values sexy.
I reckon, I don't think so necessary. Well, it's sorry, I think it is. But what's interesting about it is that they're zeroing in on this kind of moderate, apolitical, exhausted woman who's really broken down by the lack of
support for working mothers. And I think it's so interesting that they're positioning feminine as being the opposite of feminist, as if feminism and you know, we saw some wild things on their social media where it was like, I'm an ex feminist and I once went to this feminist meeting and everyone was naked and they were slapping people.
That's what I mean that they have a very specific political agenction.
It's very demonizing of feminism. But I also think that there's a huge number of women who were really disenfranchised with this idea that wanting to find a partner, wanting to be a mother, not wanting to hustle is somehow a betrayal of feminism, and I think that suggests that feminism has an image problem, and it always has in many ways. But the fact that they don't think that feminism includes them, and that feminism actively disparages them is a real shame.
It's a shame, and it's also I see how they got there. Yeah, I would say that when I look at the last ten to fifteen years of feminism, what it left behind was motherhood. I really think it didn't do a good enough job at in interrogating and getting to the complexities of what it is to be a mother and how.
Hang on difficult feminism or did society in terms of the structural subjecty.
I don't think that feminism has been talking that much about motherhood. I think it moved on to a bunch of niche issues. And I think that for the women who did get married and have kids, which is still the status quo, let's not pretend it it isn't. I don't think feminism knows what to do with them.
I don't think it's feminism. I think it's society. I think there is no question that the central thesis here, which is what you'll see in all a lot of these conservative influences things, which is a truth that feminists also talk about a lot, which is now we are expect women broadly are expected to do the lion's share of work at home and out in the world, and we haven't been given the support enough to do it.
You'll find that most feminist causes, talking about things like affordable childcare and domestic equality are a massive part of feminism. I don't think it's true that they're not they don't talk about but I think that what this is doing is it's very much demonizing the idea that all feminists hate kids, all feminists hate being at home, all feminists don't want to get married, and none of that is true. But there's a very convenient conservative message, isn't it.
Well.
Even we were talking on Monday about Chapel Roone saying, I don't know a happy parent. I can see how a woman might get to a point where they look at it and go, I don't know a happy feminist. Feminists don't seem happy, they seem really tired.
It depends what.
You call a feminist. Most women I know are feminists. But are you just talking about women who talk online about feminism a lot and that they don't seem happy? Because do not think that maybe feminism has just become so mainstream now that it's kind of everybody.
Do you know what I mean?
I know what you're saying. Yeah, maybe I'm thinking about particular sort of pundits or particular figureheads of feminism, the most shouty one where Yeah, it got very shouty and alienating for I think a lot of women, and I just understand how they got there. And there was a line in White Lotus this week that I thought encapsulated this, which was the Mother from North Carolina and she meets a woman who's married to an older man, and she basically says to her.
You're such a darling girl. You're young, you're beautiful. Why are you with this middle aged weirdo? Does he have a lot of money? You can't ask that. After the Carolina I have to introduce you to some respectable men. They would heat you up. I actually love Rupert. Are you scared of you? I could get you out of this.
And there's this sense that we patronize conservative women thinking, oh my goodness, you're a tool of the patriarchy, you poor thing. You don't know, but you've been brainwashed and you're oppressed. And these women are going I am not brainwashed. I am not oppressed. This is what I believe. Now.
I don't agree with the politics inherent in a lot of this, but what I will say is that when I went on the website, I felt my body physiologically exhale because I was like, Oh, my god, imagine living in an existence when we're not oppressed.
They talk about a soft life, that.
It was beautiful, there were no issues, there was no chattle like all of that stuff. It's likea So what they're selling has hooked you, because actually there is shitloads of ideological stuff on that. So, as I said in my intro, it laws you in with here's the nails and here's the bluff. But then it's talking about how contraception is evil, and it's talking about how wanting to earn.
A living is evil.
You've got The thing about this is it's not at all about for me, and I think you're falling, not you specifically, but the argument you're putting forward falls into a trap that women always have to be pitted against each other. This has got nothing to do with that. For me, I think that this is a dangerous and that's an overstated word, but an interesting thing to observe and watch right. The owner of it by the way, she like a lot of Trump world people.
They say, or we love.
How much this upsets liberals, She says, liberals hate this magazine. Why shouldn't there be a magazine for conservative women. I don't hate it at all, but I find it fascinating because it's a soft way to get in to a woman's mind and start whispering in her ear. And what they're whispering in your ear is don't work, don't make your own money, don't have bodily autonomy, don't make your own choices.
I'm with you, and dress like a milkman.
And exactly, And it's like and it looks sexy and beautiful and aspirational because everyone is gorgeous, just like on the traadwife thing. Everybody has an adoring husband who wants to have sex with them all the time. Everybody has these beautiful, well groomed children and these lovely homes. So it's doing exactly what women's magazines have always done, which is package aspiration and then law you in and then give you a lot of standards that are hard to
live up to. Whether that's girl boss life or whether that's soft wife trad wife life, it's the same thing.
I'm with you.
But what this revealed to me was that left wing publications that might not brand themselves as that have been doing the same thing for ten years, that you can go and have a look at all their headlines and go, there's nothing here, and then you click on one you go, oh,
that's a really radical idea. Whether or not I agree with it, I can see how if you weren't super progressive or super left wing, you would feel alienated by that, because there's an assumption that you just agree that women should be having rampant, casual sex and.
That that's empowering for everyone.
Yes.
Yes, and you don't need a man, and you don't need motherhood, and maybe you don't. And I think, to me, what feminism is is about choices. But some women find those choices overwhelming, and some women would like to be kept because it seems easier than both having to work as hard as a man but also do all the childcare and homemaking as well. As I was preparing for this, I got an email from Megan Markle. Would you please stop.
Pooking Megan would be very upset to think that you're putting her in the same bucket asn't well.
I think it's all under the same umbrella, because in this email, she says, in part of course, you'll find the raspberry spread that started it all presented in keep safe packaging that you can repurpose to tuck away love notes or special treasures and to remember this pivotal moment
with me. Think of it as our time capsule. And by the way, once you've enjoyed every spoonful of this fruit spread, you may want to do what I do, rinse the jar and use it as a small bud vase for flowers on your nightstand or to hold your pens on your desk.
I think that sounds lovely and also the time.
But I think what you missed is that not everybody who likes housy things are trying to sell you a conservative nightmare.
But these people are, I understand. But my point is that this idea of these women and missus Hugo Boom, who who is the thirty three year old co founder of Evy along with her husband and Megan, both have to work really, really, really hard and have a huge number of let's be honest, other women in their lives doing the actual work of helping to look after their children and helping to clean their houses and do all
of those things. And that's fine, But to me, it's more the disconnection with we're all just pretending that we're not working. So you have to work really hard because everybody needs to earn money, but then you also have to be this domestic goddess, which just feels like more pressure.
I listened to an interview with the founder who said that this magazine or this publication is about women who want love and marriage. Right, that was like her summary of what it means. There is a portion of feminism. To even talk about it as some kind of homogeneous thing is ridiculous. But let's just say some of the loudest voices maybe have disparage love and marriage, maybe have suggested that there some.
Do doesn't work out that well for everybody.
Exactly it doesn't. And there has been some really valid and important criticisms of those institutions. And they say that they have data to suggest that most women still want love and marriage. Then they're just going, well, this is.
It's like been shamed for wanting to find a soul mate.
Which yeah, and I think the love and marriage, I think the disparaging as description of what she's selling, but the disparaging of love and marriage or the suggestion that that is somehow anti feminist to want I think what's happened is that's left a wide gaping hole for the trad wife phenomenon, is that it is something that has just been left women have been looking to be reflected.
Yeah, I agree with you, but I also one of the things that I find kind of troubling about all this is that everything in life now has to be so polarized. So if you do like making jam or baking cakes, are staying home, then you're conservative.
Just finally, on the birth control point, I also think that's another wide open hole that has maybe been something we haven't interrogated enough, and therefore it's been co opted by a conservative agenda when there are a lot of women who aren't necessarily conservative, who are going, hey, actually want to kind of flag that there are some issues.
Like as a millennial woman who was prescribed birth control at fourteen because I had terrible periods and it changed my body, it changed my moods, and then when I went to the doctor and when I've got anxiety and depression, I was then medicated more on a different medication, like it is something that needs to be discussed. I understand how women have been radicalized into this, Like, we don't do any contraception thing because I think it's been clumsily done at points.
So the other business that these co founders have is a natural hormonal tracking app. It's like a fertility app that helps you try and avoid or seek pregnancy based on where you are at in your cycle. And they also sell vitamins for women who want to give up birth control. You know, it's no accident, of course, that they publish a whole lot of articles about how terrible birth control is now for some women. It really is.
It's not that there's no truth in that, but the risks of the kind of birth control app that they're peddling are unexpected pregnancy.
And their pro life.
So what are your yes in an America where it's increasingly hard to do anything about any accidental pregnance.
And you know what's interesting the viral milk may dress, which they also sell. They say in some of the marketing warning might cause unplanned pregnancy because you look so hot. Your husband just can't help.
But rav isue out louders two brilliant news shows and a book Hollie is raving about. It is time for our recommendations just after the break, how aloud us.
We've got a listener dilemma and we need your collective wisdom to help us and our partners UI to solve it. Please all right, So here's the problem, our listener says, I've made a terrible mistake and need your advice. Last week, I had an important work dinner with potential clients that required me to dress more formally than usual. As a typically casual dresser, I didn't have anything suitable, so I asked my friend if I could borrow something.
This is me every second week to your wardrobe.
My friend has an amazing wardrobe. Yes I do, and immediately offered her favorite cream silk button up shirt from a designer label that cost around four hundred dollars. She mentioned it was special to her as she bought it to celebrate her promotion last year. The dinner went perfectly, but when I got home, I was exhausted and made a catastrophic error. Instead of dry cleaning the shirt as my friend had instructed, I absent mindedly tossed it in
my washing machine with my regular laundry. When I pulled it out, it was completely ruined, shrunken, discolored, and the fabric had that terrible stiff texture that destroyed silk gets. My friend is message asking when Hra turned her shirt, and I'm paralyzed with anxiety. But the question is what do you do next?
I have the answer.
What is it?
You have to go and read buy the shirt? Of course you do, four hundred answer, that's the only answer. You have to go out and buy it. Now that he is not available, here's your issue if it's not available, and that is where I pedal my DP pop my Facebook market. Oh, you then put in the exact thing. And even if you I mean.
It's a bit, you can't do that.
But if can't available, then you're giving.
Your friend it was already.
You have to give her the money. If the shirt is no longer available, you have to give the money. And that's the tax borrowing the expensive shit.
I actually completely agree.
I shouldn't borrow expensive things.
You have people borrow your clothes all the time. What's your answer to that.
Well, I had a friend once borrow a trench coat that she set on fire. Yeah, accidentally, Yeah, And I thought it was hilarious, But I don't get that attached to things. My kids also. Oh, my daughter borrows my clothes all the time. Often things come back.
A lite, you would expect someone to replace it.
Look, the thing is that when I learn something to someone, I kind of forget that it's even there. It's like putting something in storage.
I forget I have clothes. Eye are you?
Yeah, don't worry about it. So look, I actually like your deep up idea. I think the first thing you need to do is fess up. But only fess up when you've got the solution. Yeah, whether it's buying a your shirt or finding one second hand.
Out loud as, what would you do? Share your thoughts in the mom and Me are Outloud Facebook group and share any dilemmas that you want to help with their.
Too vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun. This is my best recommendation.
It's Friday, and we're going to help set up your weekend with our very best recommendations. I'm going to go first because I'm the boss here. I have a show that I watched all weekend and it just made me laugh until I cried. It is called last one laughing on Prime Video?
What was the last jokes that made you laugh? I haven't laughed since the nineties. About ten comedians and one objective, do not laugh. You're not allowed to giggle, you're not allowed to smile.
Time to start the game.
This is our job, Jimmie. No, we're going to change the rules now. Can we say that?
There was an Australian version years ago hosted by Rebel Wilson, and I thought the oh, I remember, that's genius.
It was so good. Comedians in the room. What happened? I forget?
So like ten comedians, throw them in a room, lock the door, six hours, right, and the experiment is you win if you're the last one to laugh. So they're all trying to make each other laugh for the entire series. You get a yellow card if you laugh or you can't smile either, right, if you get a yellow card the first time you do it, and then you're sent out the second time you do it. And there's always someone that lasts about five minutes because they're just like,
I can't stop laughing. But what's funny about comedians is that even in their presenting or if they're trying to make someone else laugh. It's really hard not to crack themselves up.
Oh I love that.
So the best part of it was the facial expressions they have to pull for the whole time, or someone says something funny and you watch them have to go somewhere in their head, and the things that actually get them like there's always something than you think ridiculous and stupid.
My memory of the Australian one is that things got fairly out of control. Really weirdood you've been throwing around, People were dressing up.
Yep, this is less that. I think that there was nudity in the Australian quite in appropriate. I think someone to all their clothes off this one. There isn't any nudity. It's hosted by Jimmy Carr. They are world class comedians. It is just so much fun. You could probably watch it with kids. I'm thinking it's.
Not too rude.
I don't think there's too many naughty words, but it's funny when Luca and I were watching it, going if him and I were in a room. You know how, there's sometimes just one word that will bring about a story that will just get you, that will just get you, like it's just.
How long are they locked in there? For? Six hours? Six hours?
It's fantastic.
I'm recommending a different kind of TV show. It's called The Last Anniversary on Binge.
Fac Yes, so big.
This habit. You look at the time, the moment you see your date, just in case I'm the one christ last time I saw you, you left me the altar, left.
You at the AirPod and you hadn't proposed yet.
Do you remember my Nana Connie? She left you her house like a doll's house. Why would she leave you at doll's house? Why would she leave me her househouse? No one has managed to solve our mystery. I love the.
Whole Baby mon Morrow's story, but it's not a story, it's the truth.
It is a TV show based on Leanne Moriarty's book My Favorite Leone Mariani. Yeah, it's one of her older books. It was written before Big Little Eyes. And it's an Australian series on Binge and it follows Sophie Honeywells. She's played by Teresa Palmer who is so good in this and she inherits this house on Scribbly Gum Island, which is like a place shrouded in mystery and secrets, and it explores like family and motherhood and the bonds between
generations of women. It's got an incredible female cast. The producers are made up stories and also Nicole Kidman Blossom Films. Nicole's not in it, but made up stories, who also produces of Strife and many other things. Oh, it's just so good. It feels very Australian, directed by John Paulson, beautiful performances. I went to the premiere of it last week and oh it was just great. Just so many faces you recognize up on the screen.
I've only heard brilliant thing. Yeah, it's very Australian, very creamy, and people say it's just like I.
Can smell the eucalyptus gorgeous on the Hawksbury. I think it is what I think it is, Ye scribblely Gum Island doesn't actually exist, but it's just beautiful. Oh I can't wait, Binge.
I've got an old book that's new again because Nora Efron, who is a legendary writer right, she is a screenwriter and a writer. She very famously wrote Heartburn, She wrote When Harry Met Sally, and Sleepless in Seattle, and lots of marvelous things. She's also a mad food person. She is no longer with us. She died quite a long time ago, but she wrote. In two thousand and six, she published a collection of essays called I Feel Bad about My Neck, which is, as their title suggests, what
a good title. As the title suggests, some of them are about age, but not all of them. Some of them are just about her life in New York, about divorce, about remarriage, about homes, about real estate, about all kinds of things. It's been re released as an audio book and she reads it, so obviously she recorded these essays once,
so it's Naura's voice. Nora's reading these essays, and the intro has been done by Dolly Alderton, because Dolly is one of probably the most famous Nora stands in the world. And she writes her intro about why she loves Noaura so much, and she reads it, and it's short. It probably will take you like a couple of hours to
listen to this. And I spent a Saturday afternoon doing that recently when I was pottering about home, and it was the most delightful experience because it's so interesting what we were just talking about about women's media and how everything is so polarized now because Efron wrote about feminism with a small you know like, which I think is how most women actually experience feminism, which is just it's given me choices in my life, right.
To vote and have my own bank account.
And to launch a media company where only women write.
Exactly that kind of thing.
And Nora was a newspaper columnist, a journalist, a political reporter. At one point she moved in these opper echelons of New York and Washington society so very like East Coast elite. But the writing is so engaging and so funny, and it made me think that now I don't know if Nora Efron could exist in quite the same way, because everybody would say that's not relatable.
There'd be one hundred think pieces about every piece that she wrote.
Whereas she could just put it out there. And some of them are about her obsessions with trying to cook a particular dish, but they're just so brilliant. And some of them are about when she met jfk as a young intern in the White House, which is mind boggling, and then some of them are about rent control apartments in New York City, and like it's just delightful, and anyone who loves funny, sharp writing, she'd love Nora, I
feel bad about my neck. The audiobook it's available everywhere, with the intro by Dolly Alderton out Louders.
A few weeks ago, we spoke about micro pettiness, and there's a bit of a question that's been going around that has made us think of a new kind of micro pettiness. A social media us posted the question, you're a burglar, but you only steal things to slightly inconvenience your victims. What are you stealing? So you're basically you're a micro petty burglar? Jesse, what are you stealing?
Or the forks?
I had forks written down? Fawks?
I really like just the conditioner. Oh yes, I know the feeling of In fact, you know what, here's what I want to do. Squeeze the conditioner down the toilet so the conditioner bottles still there. You think you got enough, then you shampoo your hair all naughty, and now what are you gonna do? You're gonna have a bad a one piece from each bedding set, so I have two betting sets, and what I want to do is just take like one pillow case and like one sheet, so
that you'll never have a full never quite matches. That never quite matches an HD in my cable.
That remind that's just one.
And it also made me think of we have a family friend. They really got burgled, right, someone came in and stole a bunch of stuff. And something that they stole was his Easter egg collection.
Is Easter egg collection?
Yeah?
Yeah, heaps of stregg person with a lot of self control.
Don't they go bad? Well?
I think it must have been around Easter, but it was a big thing of East eggs, right. And this burglar whenever I see that, I just see a man in a black and white thing with a beanie on, but like doing a little yeah.
Yeah cat burglar, Yeah yeah kat Yeah.
Anyway, stole all the Easter eggs, took the big bucket, but the bucket happened to have this person's name on it, and so he was caught by the police.
I steal all of one type of charger, just so that you've only got the wrong charger or whatever device you need. Yeah, And if I was being a micro petty person just around this table, like if I went into your household and I was being micro petty. I'd steal your salt. Oh, yes, Jesse, I'd steal your liquid eye liner.
Yes, you know what I'd steal. I'd steal the lids off Holly's lipsticks.
Oh my gosh, that would be devastating my hambag and they get all mushy. I would steal all working pens. I'm always looking for a pen in my house, and they're never working.
Just replace them with crayons.
Crayons hair I am always looking for a hair tie constantly. Never find a hair tie, and lids the right lid to the food container, Like, come on, you know what, somebody just do that in my house. I'm sure I'd go to your scissors and i'd open the scissors and I'd break the scissors.
So you've only got half a siss half a scissor half a scissor. So what are you gonna do with that? Yes, exactly, and I haven't thrown them away.
Yeah, I'd take all the toothbrushes, but I'd leave you the toothpaste, so you'd have to brush your teeth with your finger, which is or your hair brush.
After the break, new hair the worst weekend in the history of weekends and me as Weekend with her People. It's our best and Worst of the Week out loud as.
If you want to listen to us every day of the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a Mum and Me a subscriber. Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and support us. And a big thank you to all our current subscribers. It's time for Best and Worst, the part of the show where we share a little more from
our personal lives. I'm going to go first. My worst of the week is then, I've been wanting to actually say that my best of the week or my recommendation is that I've been doing weight training. You know I've got my.
Weight best for a while.
Maybe I already have said that is my best of the week, right, My worst is that I weighted too hard.
Isn't that just growing muscle.
Between my vest and I was increasing my weightload of my handweight?
How can I just ask how much five kilo dumbbells?
Wow? You just just me left at the gym Arnold Schwarzenegger six. I'm actually quite impressed I have done something to my lower back and I can't You've not engaged forward. Yeah, I haven't engaged my core enough, and so now I can't really walk very well because it hurts. My best is that this time last week on Friday night, we did an event in the Apple Store and it was Emelia Lester interviewing the three of us about ten years of podcasting without loud because it's our birthday last year,
this year something. And there are about five hundred or six hundred out louders that came and looking around at everybody, and there were I reckon there were three generations of faces, maybe four because that was a little baby. There were all kinds of people and just doing this show like we have the outlouders our minds, but there's something about sitting in front of them and seeing them just beaming
back to us. And it was the first time Amelia had been in that situation and sharing that with my best friend, having her feel that love because she's done a lot of important panels and speaking engagements and stuff, but nothing no, she said, it's usually full of men in suits scowling at her. And she just said the love and the just the beaming, happy women was just a treat, and yeah, it was a treat for all of us.
Holly, what was your worst?
My worst is that my thunder has been stolen at home and Brent is now a published author.
Okay, can I ask about this? This is not okay, you have kept this well. I learned on Instagram that Brent's written the book. I was like, Holy, for all I've heard about.
This is it's not. This is why it's my worst. Is it about us? It's not about any of us. It's about walking.
And so the reason it's my worst is that, although obviously I'm very proud of my partner because he's written a book about walking, is it just means more walking, trousers, walking shoes, more walking?
Is he walking careage? So now he is?
So he's compiled a book that's like lots of different stories about the great walks around Australia, coastal walks.
It's very beautiful. It's like a coffee table.
But I've thought that, and then I thought, I want to give that to my mum. And then I thought, I wonder if Holly has a freebie, because you.
Know, he only brought one copy. The reason one of the reasons you haven't all had to hear about it is because I'm like, do you understand how you sell a book? You give it to people, you show, you take pictures of it, you put.
It alone people.
I got my hands on one copy, so I'll bring you on fran I could anyway?
Does it come with a free pair of zip up No?
Do you remember how recently on the show, I was dissing his fashion and I was saying, help me, and I got lots of good advice from out louders and they were saying, yes, you said me a uniclo and this and that and whatever.
But now that he's.
Digging in with all the fame about his walking, I am doomed.
To a life of trousers and wardrobe.
It is like a coffee table beautiful book, and obviously I'm very proud of him, but it's called Great Coastal Walks, okay?
And can you actually can I.
Go into And one of the cute things is is on the Big w website, it's got his book and my book next to each other because I's pre ordered, and I was like, that's so nice because you're coming out in April, so very soon. But yes, he has stolen my thunder and please do not support Breadpa Kane by buying.
His bad I don't want to encourage. I'm joking, of course you should.
My best though, is doing new things. I got my hair dyed last week for the first time in my entire life, and I didn't like it.
Could you believe how long it took? Maya and I like.
To result to be clear, is I like, I really like how it looks. We've talked before about how we have like a group hair dresser who.
Mia introduced us all to. He's amazing. She's called El and she works in Sydney.
But she when I went to see her last time, she was like a bit of color and I was like, oh, I don't know, I've never done it. I've never done it. And she's like, come on now me. I was like, yes, come on now. So I went and I didn't know what to expect. And I know that every out louder in the whole world is like what you don't need to explain.
She sent us a picture of her in foils, just like looking shocked. I was shocked and I was like, I look like a lion and also made a foil, made a foil. And also this takes a lot of time. Being blonde. A is exhausted.
I was in there for like four hours and maybe longer. And anyway, it does look lovely. She did a great job because I was worried that I'd look really different. And it's so funny because I message Brent and he said, oh my god, you're getting your hair died, and I think he thought I was going to come home with like yeah, but of course he didn't even notice.
Because it's so very natural. But it shows you can do new things.
We won't reveal what, but we did something very fun at work this week too for the live show. If you think of coming to the live show, it wasn't the singing and dancing, something completely different that none of us had ever done before.
And if you want to see me in particular, I have what can only be described as a breakdown. Oh it was so fun that I lost my mind. I made to have an ice pil I don't.
Laughing about that.
I love new experiences. I'm like, I want to do more new things. Maybe that can be one of my ambitions for the rest this year. Anyway, on the live show, which you have to come to to see Jesse, you have a nervous break down. Among other things, Sydney is sold out friends, Perth has been sold out for ages, but there are a handful of like secret tickets left for Sydney. There are a few tickets for Melbourne and a few tickets for Brisbane. The link will be in the show.
Not It's next month, isn't it.
It's really soon? Can't wait over to you, Jesse Stevens.
My worst is that weekend before last when I wasn't on the show. Our whole family struck with illness. The RSV hadn't had it before. Luna got it. I got it. And you know when you're so sick that you shouldn't be out of bed, but you've got a child ticket, so there's no choice. Wow, the wheels just fell off. It was hard to find the low point.
But were you one of those parents that chapel Rohn is referring to.
Yes, this story, I'll make your house thrown. Just want to get pregnant immediately. A low point was definitely when Luna was in her pram. She fell forward into a gutter, nearly lost her mouthful of tea, basted all our lips like horrible. Then I end up at an urgent care clinic. You know things are bad when you're on the street in public, in tears and you go, this is not a good day for us. But we need the highs and lowers in life, don't we. Because the following weekend
was my absolute best. We were all well, I slept. One of the hardest things about that being sick was not only that it was we were trying to recover and look after Luna, but I had a keynote at the end of last week and it required me to write it Yes of speech, and it felt like I had this assignment over my head all week that even when I was resting or sick, it was just like, no, you've got this thing to do, and it's a really big thing, and I don't have the energy. But I
was better in time for it. I actually felt so so much satisfaction doing it. Then it was our wedding anniversary and Luca and I went out to dinner and we just had the very best of.
You two years.
It was our two year wedding anniversary. Yeah, it was really nice, really nice.
That is all We've got time for today out loud as a massive thank you for being here with us all week long. It's been a big week and we will see you next time. Jesse and Mia take us out.
A big thank you to our team group executive producer.
Ruth Devine, who's not a burgular.
She's not a burglar, not that we know of. Executive producer Emmeline Gazillis.
Our audio producer Leap Poor just our video producer Josh Green, and our junior content producers are co Co and Tessa Bye.
We know you're not ready to say goodbye drinking which we thought we'd leave you with a bit of a conversation we had on a subscriber episode yesterday.
Oh White Lotus have been yelling. They left us to talk about has been incest.
We just needed to talk.
There's been violence, the trio.
Friendship falling apart, and our theories about how it's all going to end next week. Take a listen.
We are now down to the last episode. There's only one episode left to go. We wanted to recap episodes six and seven, lot or seven and eight. I can't remember too many episodes. I think some people missed. We get to that in the moment.
We didn't do it last week because that was the one with all the success.
Yeah things, and they said we need to have a discussion about it.
I don't think i've said incest on this podcast before.
No, let's start with that with the incesses from episode six, and I think shout out to any Mum and MEA subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want to support us, subscribing to Mom and Mia is the very best way to do so. There's a link in the episode description.