You're listening to a mom with mea podcast that's huge.
Yeah, no, but it's all me and Andy.
You're talking about what are you going to do to keep it?
What have you got coming up and tell.
The people tell you we can't beat you at your game. I'll just keep refreshing it till we get back there. Yeah, well done.
Who was that Jesse was so referring to Hamish?
Blake has finally released a statement conceded.
Regarding our victory in the podcast Ranker where we did beat Hamish Nandy. They are usually number one. We got number one. It's of course completely irrelevant that they are on holidays, but.
They haven't really been releasing them.
No, and that Hamish has probably been laying by a pool with a cocktail.
Do you know what I heard when I heard that? I heard a scared man.
I heard a scared man too. I mean it was it was diplomatic. He'd clearly prepared that statement and really thought about what he was going to say.
Yeah, it's clearly true that he and Andy spoke of nothing else.
Yes, and it's clear that that certainly wasn't the.
First he'd heard of the fact we beat him in the Red gun that maybe he's been a bit distracted. I would say he is a dignified loser.
He's a dignified loser, and you're in our thoughts, Hamish.
Yeah, better luck next month. Actually, I don't even think he's back next month. Better luck in July when you decide to come back for five minutes and you smash her.
But anyway, out Loud as Welcome to Australia's number one podcast.
We keep saying that until Hamish is our annual needs back to work.
This is Mama Mire out Loud and it's what women are actually talking about. On Monday, the twenty third of February.
I'm Holly Wayne Wright, I'm Jesse Stevens.
And I'm Amelia Lester and here's.
What's on our agenda for today. So Prince William was just at the bafter's right. Just happened just before we got on air, and someone asked him if it's in Hamnet and he gave a very understandable response to that. That suggests he's had maybe other things on his mind.
He's not maybe in the mental yeah.
Like I think perhaps the fact that his uncle may have just put him and his dad and everybody else out of a job, so we will be discussing the ongoing fallout from Andrew Mountbatten Windsor.
Plus, we finally know what replaced the girl boss feminism of the twenty tens. It is the burnout feminism of the twenty twenties. But we want to know if that trend is actually really any better.
And we all think we know what happened last week when Channel nine's Danika Mason went to air drunk from the Winter Olympics.
But the truth is a little bit more complicated.
But first, so as I say, Prince William, Princess Catherine, they're at the Baftis. They used to always go to the Baftis, but they haven't been for three years because of Catherine's health. Right, so this is a triumphant return to the red carpet, as the tablelats would say. She was wearing this gorgeous Gucci frog that she's born before I know she's recycling it, which is ace. But unlike previous years, when they step out of the car and onto the red carpet, they just get yelled at from
all these paps, going is the monarchy in peril? Well you miss it all over William if you're don't about to resign and he's like, oh fuck. And then one of the journos asks him, have you seen Hamnet, which is a fair question. They knew it was going to win Big English movie, and he.
Said, A famously sad movie.
It's very sad emotional movie. I know lots of people who share Prince William's sentiment on this. He said, I need to be in quite a calm state. He said to watch it with um and I am not at the moment, so I will save it now. Fair lots of people feel that way about Hamnet. Kate was there, she was like, I've watched it, she said, cried. She had cried, mine is out my eyes when all puffy. I'm like me too, you too? Yeah? Anyway, why is
William not calm? William is not calm because, as you would know if you listen to our special emergency episode on Friday, his uncle, formerly known as Prince Andrew, was arrested in the UK on Thursday, and the fallout for that has now led us to a place where people are saying, is this the end of the monarchy? Is King Charles about to abdicate? Jesse? Have you heard all this abdication chat.
Yeah.
I listened to an emergency episode of Mummy out loud on Friday. I had not seen anything. I had not seen pictures, and then I listened to you explain it all to me. And I must say that when I saw William use the word calm, I thought it was very revealing because the keep calm and carry on is the royal mantra, and he was basically saying, I am not calm right now. I am completely thrown by this.
I think that they've been very strategic in what they have and haven't said, but I can't imagine the family fall out.
If you look at Charles's statement that he released after the arrest, it was a real departure from royal protocol, which is normally all about W and R and the royal WI. And his statement began, I have learned with the deepest concern the news about Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. That is not how you rever to your brother. No, you don't rever to your brother by aseful name. To me, it was giving the Mariah Carey.
I don't know her mean yes, yeah, yeaheah, I don't know her vibes.
But good luck with that, Charles, because so a bit of a recap on what's happened since so Andrew Mountbatten Windsor was arrested early on Thursday morning and he was taken to a police station in Question for around twelve.
Hours, which means I had a lot of questions.
Yes, he was not charged and he has not been charged, and it's important to note, of course, no charge is laid and obviously he's innocent till proven guilty. He was not cautioned, he was not bailed, he was just released. So there's that. But the arrest itself has been one of the biggest stories in the world, but particularly shocking for the royal family. Apparently King Charles didn't know it was going to happen. Nobody in the family knew it
was going to happen. Andrew didn't, and that's you can see why. Obviously, if Scotland Yard had tipped Charles off and then Andrew was suddenly not home when the cops came knocking on the door, that would have been problem enough. Everybody's waiting now for the other shoe to drop. So the ripple effect of this is enormous and where we've landed today, which is this sort of is this really
good to be the end of the monarchy? And everybody shouting at Prince William about it because there's a lot of reporting out there that this scandal is so big and goes so far and so deep into the monarchy that Charles may have no choice really but to maybe abdicate.
Can I ask you about that, because when I've seen whispers of that and reports saying that there's maybe a push for him to abdicate, or that it might be something he chooses to do on his own accord, why like, what does this have to do with Charles?
So the reason is this didn't come from nowhere. This has obviously that Andrew business has been an open secret,
like different levels of it. It's important to note that what he was arrested for misconduct in public office, and as we've talked about on Friday's emergency meeting, what he appears to have been arrested for are the allegations that came out in the latest drop of the Epstein files that while he was Special Trade Envoy for Great Britain, he was emailing Epstein and the allegedly sharing very sensitive information that was good for Epstein and his pals things
that you should share. So that is what he was actually arrested for. In twenty twenty two, Andrew reached an out of court settlement with Virginia Giffrey in a US civil case which involved an undisclosed payout of a very large sum of money and no admission of guilt on his part. That money is widely believed to have come
from the Queen, from King Charles, from his family. Basically, he didn't have twelve million pounds lying around, so there are a lot of lot of speculation that how much did everybody know and how much did they enable him. There is a journalist and an author called Andrew Lowney who wrote the book about Andrew and Fergie last year that became almost a bit of a catalyst for all
of this. And he was interviewed by the Quickie this morning and this is what he said about the problem that Charles faces.
I have counterless stories in my book entitled in My Research, of people going and complaining to the Palace, to the Queen's private secretary and being sent away with a flea in the ear. And these are intelligence officials, the heads of the Foreign Office, and others. So I do think this scandal is getting very close to the crown and it may well lead to a second abdication, depends what he knew and what he did. I think his position is very dangerous. You know, clearly they didn't expect this
Epstein material to be released. They're kind of paddling furiously now to see what they can say. So no, I think he's you know, as more and more evidence comes out, and I suspect it will implicating other members of the royal household. I mean they will say perhaps that King Charles didn't see it. It went to private secretaries. The Queen dealt with it, but he was in effect co ruling with the Queen for the last few years of her reign. He's been the king for the last few years.
This is a problem that goes way back. And Andrew was basically an accident waiting to happen. So I think it's going to be very difficult to keep his hands clean. I mean, the wagons are circling. I think it's looking very dangerous for him.
Wow, the fact that he's saying that Andrew Lowney really I was pretty skeptical of this idea that Charles would step down, because since when has Charles ever wanted to take respond on stability for anything anyone at his family does.
But that's a very credible source.
It is, and it's also it's interesting because I don't think anyone suggesting this will happen tomorrow, next week, next month, But people are now saying that they think that that when Andrew was properly cast out by Charles last October, when he had his prince title revoked and he was kicked out of the family home and all those things, Charles didn't know that this exact arrest was coming, but they knew that the chickens were coming home to roost, and he by doing that level of stepping back, he
was signaling I'm not going to stand in the way. The palace are not going to stand in the way anymore of whatever you're going to do. And that was one step in this. The problem that the royal family have if they want to survive, of course, is that there is an enormous public dissatisfaction with obviously Andrew's actions, but also the perception that there's just a completely different set of rules for royals, which there always has been.
Let's be honest, But that's becoming increasingly unpopular, and the speculation is that William is a clean skin in this. No one can suggest that he was complicit. He has been very stern. He has said over and over again that he wants to modernize and slim land the monarchy. So there is speculation that Charles could sort of take the fall, as it were, for this and then at some point step down, maybe because of his health, maybe
for other reasons. He's seventy seven and he's not very well and allow a different kind of monarchy to come through.
But that slim down monarchy is going to have a direct implication on Harry and Magant very much, because he's not going to slim it down in one way and not the other way.
Oh well, if you look at so they call them the pushbike royals, right, the royals of Scandinavia, so Norway, Denmark, Sweden. They have this model of monarchy where the only royals are actually the king for the monarch and their direct heir. So that means that the only if they were to follow a Nordic model, the only official royals who get any kind of public allowance as it were, and are working royals would be William, Catherine and their children and
everyone else. Like, of course they're still posh and you still get to go to palaces and be involved in weddings and whatever, but they're not working members of the royal family on the public purse. And in Britain that used to be a sprawling group of royals, it's been slowly carved out.
And it's the key that they don't get a title to presumab day which are part of what enabled Andrew to sort of work in these worlds was his HR eight and.
Gave him status, and he gave those to his daughters and famously the Queen's daughter, and when she had her children she said, I don't want the titles she could have given her daughter and son prince and princess, she said. Nat Andrew is probably a surprise to no one as more and more of his character becomes apparent. Who's like, absolutely, my girls will be princess.
He had it on his email signature, as we now know.
So he wanted that one hundred percent. So that will be interesting.
Because Harry and Meghan have just I'm really surprised at the restraint they've shown.
I'm surprised I haven't said anything yet. Really, yeah, I am, because this is so.
Much like I just keep imagining Meghan showing up to meet Harry's in laws at the table and being like, wait, your uncle, that guy who's just sitting across from me was accused of what probably had a lot more insight than any of us did. And as you say, it was mentioned in Passing and Spare in Harry's book. But do you think they will say anything.
I don't think they'll say anything directly immediately, but I think that they would be quite happy sitting in Montecida right now. A because they've distanced themselves from an increasingly toxic brand. B Because all the reports are that Harry's going to go back to the UK in an official capacity this northern summer, and Megs might go too, and
the kids might go too. For the first time. Whether or not William really is on the brink of becoming king, Harry has a kind of opportunity to set them up as sort of almost like more moral superior royals, you know, in a different way, and he might lose his title. I mean, he clearly wants to really hold onto that title too. He's given it to his children if William gets his way, but not for a while. There's still some time to make hay. I think they'll bide their time before they say anything.
And here's my other question.
Do we think this is what I think a lot of the outrage has been is that Andrew has not given official evidence. Do you think that this might.
Force him to?
Is there a future in which Andrew has to sit on trial and testify and actually reveal the details of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
Yes, But the thing is is the details of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein are already revealed. You know, he and Sarah Ferguson and some of the people mentioned the most. Yeah, in those millions and millions of Epstein, Puss and their daughters, that relationship was clearly very close. And they've both been proved to have been lying when they said, oh, after his conviction, we barely had anything to do with him.
The same year he was released from prison, Fergie and the girls were flown on Epstein's purse two Palm Beach to have lunch with him, like they were tight. And the Brits are quite smug this weekend about the fact that well, at least we're doing something about our Epstein villains. Important to note that obviously people said why was he
arrested rather than just asked him for questioning. Usually in a high profile case, the first thing would be helping us with our inquiries, right, But the fact that he was brought in it meant that the police had power to then go and search his house and houses, which they did. Also, they could hold him whether he spoke or not. They could hold him, whereas if they just invited him in at his own discretion, he could just
make excuses and go. And also it may suggest that they had tried to help us with our inquiries several times in world.
Why do you think they did it on his birthday?
Oh? I don't know, because the fact I was listening to reporting saying that to arrest him to question about the Epstein connection, they would have had to be cooperating with the DOJ in America, So that's an international issue. They have also come under criticism for maybe treating him and other roles with kid gloves for these past few years. Maybe Charles and the Queen and her time were pushing them back, just in terms of the ripple effect So
the other big story this weekend that's come out. Everybody's been saying, where's Fergie, Where's Sarah Ferguson. She hasn't been seen in Britain since September last year. Some reporting from Tom Sykes, who's the Royalist, broke that she had been in a clinic in Switzerland over January. That she's obviously in a fragile state and she's trying to find where she can go. She's been sited in the Middle East. Her daughters sometimes work in the Middle East.
By the way, the clinic that she went to in Switzerland is apparently the most expensive rehab clinic in the world. And the way she got in there is that she did a video on their social media talking about us.
Of course she did.
So this is the thing, right, is that one of the reasons why Sarah and Andrew have always been problems for the royal family is because they don't have enough money, in their opinion, to live the way they want to live. Tina Brown has always been on the record as saying that peripheral royals are a big problem because it's like they can't really earn enough to live by getting just a good job. You know what I mean, live in
the way that they are accustomed to. So therefore that's why you're staying at your problematic billionaires friend's mansion in New York, or talking your way into a clinic in Switzerland, or getting a Saudi prince to bankroll your trip to the UA. So lots of talk about what Fergie is going to do. And of course the princess is Beatrice
and Eugenie. There has been a lot of sympathy for them because they were named hundreds of times in the Epstein files, and mostly they were really young at the time. A lot of people are saying, if they want to show that they are of goodwill during this reckoning, that they would hand their titles back to because if their father isn't a prince, are the princess?
Any can't get over how we've learned through these emails how their parents, which is so irresponsible in intertwining women in Epstein's world. For instance, Beatrice's eighteenth birthday a masked ball that apparently costs one hundred pounds. Harvey Weinstein, Julie Maxwell, and Jeffrey Epstein attended her eighteenth birthday party. Now that's not on her that's on her parents.
Yeah, absolutely, they probably helped pay for it.
A fun fact to end on.
Did you know that fourteen years ago a member of the royal family was convicted of.
A criminal offense.
Who was that? Jesse was Princess Anne.
Princess Anne pled guilty after her dog, a three year old English bull Terrier called Dotty, bit two children as they walked in winds A great part and.
Shew the book criminal offense.
Fined five hundred pounds, which we all know was a lot of money, a lot that's more than.
Any fine Andrew's gotten. But you know, Princess Anne did her time.
As they say on dogs. One last thing, Yeah, Sarah ferguson Fergie. She famously got the Queen's corgies when the Queen did she and she likes to talk about it a lot, and she says things like, when the corgies come in in the morning and bark at me, I like to think it's the Queen.
Like saying, I definitely put those dogs on like only famous to enjoy.
The now come.
And apparently it really annoys William and Catherine really.
That they have the call, that.
They have the corgies, and that she keeps talking about the Corgies because she keeps like insinuating herself closer and closer to the Queen. Because Charles is in a difficult situation. It's really for him to distance himself completely from Andrew, who has to blame his mum. And everybody still loves the Queen, even if her the fact that her favorite child apparently his nickname from his security detail was the
C word. It does call a judgment into questions. Okay, we'll keep you up to date, friends, keep an eye on that teetering crown.
After the break, a new brand of feminism has replaced the girl Boss era, But is it really any better?
Hey out loud as it's Mia.
I have got one of my favorite episodes of all time coming into your ear holes tomorrow. Amelia and I have downloaded all our obsessions about the new show loves story about JFK Jr.
And Carol and Bassett.
Whether you know who they are or not, you're going to love this episode. We certainly loved making it. Our subscriber apps drop twice a week Tuesdays and Thursdays, so if you're not already a subscriber, follow the link in the show notes and you can get out loud and me in your ears five days a week.
There's an article in Bloomberg this week about how burnout feminism has come to replace the girl Boss lean in era,
and author Alice Rob makes a very compelling case. So she begins by reminiscing about the twenty tens, when Yahoo chief executive officer Marissa Mayer insisted it was totally possible to work a one hundred and thirty hour a week as long as you timed your bathroom breaks perfectly, and media boss Joanna Coles, while walking at her treadmill desk, insisted that she was not at all interested in relaxing. So that gives you a snapshot of what the twenty tens vibe was.
But this decade, it happened to all the trep It's true, I know recently, and she had one. I had a friend with one.
I remember when people used to sit on bow sue balls. That one way too.
Yeah, if I had a treadmill desk, it would just be a very very heavily about clothes track.
Yeah, but this decade, the twenty twenties, is all about the pleasure of giving up, and Rob cites a number of books throughout this article that really capture this sentiment. She talks about Emma Gannon, who is a writer we've spoken about before. She was a very accomplished journalist, podcaster, was doing everything, and she basically quit all the commitments
to take walks and eat banana bread instead. She also wrote a very successful book and substack and all of that, but basically she was like, this burns me out and it makes me not happy, and she started this movement. There's even one book called Life After Ambition, which sums up a lot about this genre. For some women, having babies is the breaking point, and for others it was discovering that despite their one hundred and thirty hour work weeks, they were still getting paid less.
Than the men they worked alongside. Amelia.
There are definitely some parts of burnout feminism to be celebrated in terms of us all going this is too much, I can't do it. But should we be worried about this kind of shaming of female ambition. There's this idea that the new trend is that we've all got to pretend like work life balance, hobbies, not striving too much is what we really want, and I'm not seeing maybe men being pressured the same.
Way use the problem.
Men aren't leaning out, Men are still just at that table leaning in yes, And that tells me that there's something awry with this trend.
If this article actually made me.
Quite sad, the idea that it says that for all of human history women's ambition has been condemned except for this brief period between twenty thirteen and twenty twenty.
That really hit home for me because.
It's true, and there's so much hatred towards the women who led that girl bus.
Here are like so much vitriol.
True, And I just think that it's also a little disingenuous for all these authors that are cited in here to tell us how they're just so lazy now and they do nothing to eat banana bread.
But I'm reading this in books they've written.
Now. I've never written a book, but I think that they're quite time consuming, is what I've heard, and they're quite impressive achievements. So do tell me how lazy you are when I'm reading it in a book you.
Wrote, Rebsolutely, nothing burns you out like writing a book. I'm not seeing these people disappear. It's like I see the reinvention. I mean, it's just rebranding, right, it's rebranding. And it's like, is there something unpopular now about going well, I want to be the boss?
Like is that kind of Well?
It's interesting, isn't it? Because maybe it's just splintering because there is still a lot of what you would call girl bossing on the internet. Look at Emma Greed. We talk about her all the time, right, she's boss lady at Skins. Look at all every Kardashian. Look that these are not lazy people. These are not that any of these women are lazy, but you know what I mean, they're not celebrating not working. They are work bitch, right, And I think that this is a pushback to that
because it's an interesting question about the men. Are men allowed to burn out? I don't know that they are, do you know what I mean? Like, I think that the culture we expect men to work, work, work, work, work, and if they were to say I'm burnt out and I need to stop, we'd probably everyone would probably be quite mocking of them. Are we seeing like a splintering of different groups because the girl boss world doesn't suit everybody,
doesn't make them happy, doesn't make them feel fulfilled. Nor does the soft life as they call it, suit everybody. So are we not just seeing a broader range?
Because or was the issue though that we were being yelled at to lean in while our home lives mark in terms of who was looking after our children.
We were all that's exactly the reaction to that, you know, which is the fact that, well, you can girl boss or you want, but when you get home, you're still mopping the floor and cooking the dinner and try.
And a man can lean in if the woman is still doing the majority of the domestic load, which I think was that contributing to the burner.
Look, I hate to be doing this, but I'm going to defend Cheryl Samberg.
I'm sorry, but I have to.
I do think that the whole lean In idea got completely misunderstood by everyone. The whole idea was that you meant to instead of preemptively saying, well, I want to have kids, therefore I'm not going to work as hard just in preparation for that. She's like, no, just keep working hard until the point that you want to have kids, and then you can reassess. That was all she was saying with lean In she was saying, lean in until you can't lean in anymore.
And you'll be in a good position take break now.
It is not bad advice.
And I recently went to speak at my high school, as I know you did, Jesse, and I was sent a list of sample questions by the high school students who invited me, and one of the questions was how do you achieve work life balance? And I just thought, how insane at seventeen to be worried about that about work life balance. I just don't think they need to
worry about that, And that was Cheryl's point. So I kind of worry that by telling us all not to work so hard, not to worry so much, there's a bit of a nefarious conservative agenda underneath it, because it's basically saying like, you don't need money, and the fact is women need money. The pay gap is widening again for the first time in a while, and it's because women are being told that actually their financial future and security is not important.
Okay, who benefits from that?
But I agree with you entirely. But also, and I think I've told this story before, so throw something at my head. That's the case. But so I had a significant episode of burnout in the mid twenty teens when my kids were little, and I remember very clearly being at the doctor and like having it was very similar to the way that Emma Gannon explains it. And I was crying at the doctor and I was trying to
explain to her what was wrong with me. And this doctor, who was much younger than me and very glamorous, she said to me, Oh, I see women like you all the time. She said, women trying to have it all. That's what she said to me.
And the doctor said, doctor, and I diagnose you with trying to have it I.
Diagnosed you with trying to have it all. And I was busy having my burnout meltdown, which apparently was right on schedule exactly what it was.
Well, this doctor is obviously just slacking away. Didn't go through medical.
Yes, I was like trying to have it all, like have a job and have a family like those.
You were also trying to run a marathon, which you do talk about often.
Well I did. That was possibly my mistake. But the thing is is I can't bear my view on this is that it is true that we absolutely fetishized busyness for a while there, and I think we're pulling back from that, that whole thing of like how are you and busy?
How I'm going?
Yeah, exactly, And I think that there is a sort of for a high achieving woman, but I'm sure it's probably true of a hygiene man. I don't know. If we're not completely stretched all the time and doing twenty five things all the time and we get a moment to breathe, we panic, we feel guilty, we feel lazy,
we feel like we're panicking. I'm supposed to be constantly in a state of hustle, of hustle, of stress, of too many places to be, too many things to do, and if I'm not in that state, I'm doing life wrong. I think that's absolutely true that that became fetishized and normalized to a point. And so if you do say and people like how are you and you're like, I'm fine. I spent the weekend, you know, I don't know, watching TV in my garden baking a cake, people be like, oh,
you're supposed to be constantly optimizing. So I think that if burnout feminism acknowledge is that everybody's nervous system isn't created for that, not everybody's preferences aren't created for that, then that's fine. But we are to your point, Emelia, about the young women asking you that question, It's like we're preloading them with this idea that you can't handle it. You cannot handle the life that will come at you if you want to work hard?
Is that?
Is that true? Though?
I don't think it's true.
Is it?
Men have breakdowns? Just you know?
Yeah, I wonder if the setup, though, was unsustainable. It's like the one hundred and thirty hours a week is completely unsustainable. And remember when Arianna Huffington discovered sleep and she was like, everyone, there's this thing that you should do for a few hours every night and it makes you feel great. And it was like that was a weird time, that was ripe for parody like that, there
was something kind of ridiculous about that. But then at the same time to transition into this burnout feminism.
And I hate to kind of use this word.
All the time, but there is such an inherent privilege in it, right, because not everyone gets to fall in a heap, and not everyone gets to take a year off because you're tired. I think about my Nan who had she had seven kids. She had a husband who was a war veteran and was in a wheelchair, and she looked after the kids, and then she went overnight and cleaned offices.
Right, she had to do that.
If you told that woman that having a hobby and getting a good night sleep and work life balance was important, she would have spat in your face because that was not something that was possible.
But equally, why are we telling women, and I know this is my particular favorite soapbox, that if you have a job that fulfills you, you will also do all the load at home and you just have to deal with it. That isn't actually true. You could actually set up a much more equal partnership if you're in whatever kind of relationship you're in, if you're in one same sex or straight relationship where you're not doing everything, it's just like we almost accept that as well. That's the diffault.
So we're telling girls from the beginning, you'll be set up to fail because you'll have to do all the work at home, You'll have to do all the work at work. You'll burnen yourself out. And I think there are other options. I saw a mug I really wanted to buy on the Internet the other day that said earn your own money, marry someone funny.
Yes, I like that a lot.
After the break the Australian reporter who went viral for being drunk on air, it turns out there's something we all missed in this story. So we all think we know what happened last week when Channel nine reporter Danika Mason appeared drunk on air in a live cross to the Today Show from Milan.
We've seen the clip. Everyone in the whole world saw the clip.
Even Anthony Albanezi wait in he described himself as pro Danika. The general vibe online and around the world seemed to be onya. People thought it was funny. She gave a very fulsome and gracious apology afterwards. But when I started looking into it today, I realized that it's like so many Internet stories. You think you know what happened from the TikTok that you saw.
But actually the real story of what happened is so much more interesting and it.
Really sheds light on how internet stories get created.
Let me explain. Okay, here's what I pitched.
It happened before she went on air drunk last Wednesday. I think that she went out to a pub in Milan, or she had a lot of negronies while she was having great fun all evening and then all of a sudden, remember she had to be on air, was pulled back in front of the camera and was drunk. And that's very irresponsible, right, because who would do that. Well, what I didn't realize is that was her sixth appearance on air that evening.
I thought you were going to say that was her sixth LAGRONI oh, it probably was that too.
That needs a lot of negroments.
Actually, she had been working.
She had been working all night in minus six degree temperatures, so she had been doing these crosses to morning TV in Australia, but it was evening in Milan, and basically the first one she's absolutely fine, the second one she's absolutely fine. Again, it's very cold out there. She's had a very busy day at work. Third appearance starting to appear a little looser. Fourth appearance starts to slur her words.
Oh my fifth.
Appearance gets worse, and then there's the sixth appearance. And by the way, she was going to be on for a seventh appearance, it's speculated, but they pulled her from that.
I think she's been hustling too hard. She needs to get into the burn out.
So let's have a listen to the particular clip which went viral, because I'm going to tell you some more context about that that's going to change how you think about it.
Like the price of coffee over here is actually fine. It's more the price of coffee in the US that we are going to have to get used to. I'm not sure that the IAS.
I don't watch morning TV, and I came across this exact clip and I thought, oh no, why is she talking about the price of coffee in the US.
Why is she talking about iguanas? And the reason is very sensible.
In her previous five or six appearances on The Today Show, Karl Stefanovic had been talking to her about the fact that she's soon about to go to Vegas for the Annil's Games there, so she was referring back to their previous five conversations about her upcoming US trip, and then the iguana bit, which I think everyone around the world just thought was so surreal and off the wall, is because literally throwing to her, Carl compares her to an iguana,
which by the way, makes no sense. He was by all accounts sober, but in his throwing to her on air, he compares her to an iguana, and she's live in really hot She's naturally very confused by the comparison.
So it was just a reminder that nothing on the internet is as it seems.
No, And I think as well when she made her apology, which I thought was incredibly can I.
Just say just two sets back, did she say in her apology that she had been drinking?
Yes, wasn't drunk.
And I think that's part of the good will, is that she didn't try and make it like about anything else.
She went, yeah, I had a drink.
And Carl tried like when he first when this happened, his immediate reaction was to say, oh, it's very hold there. And when I was reporting from Washington, DC, my mouth didn't move properly because it was too cold. Carl, of course, has been drunk on their himself, and it was arguably the main him.
If anyone is going to interview you drunk, you want it to be Carl because he's going to try and cover for you.
That was Krlay's best.
But she said altitude, She said I had a drink, on nepty's stomach. I mean throw in sleep deprivation if she's doing these night crosses. And I can't imagine the kind of hours that she's doing. We all know the experience of having one or two drinks and it hits you harder because of a myriad of factors. But what I have found so interesting about this story is that it seems to be the one thing that the Internet can agree on, which is like, all power to.
Isn't that nice? And it's nice for it is a surprise because I thought the Internet would be outraged. No one is out right, lady at work, it's happening, and you can't trust the ladies with the alcohol.
Everyone's like, oh well, we can't get drunk on television anymore.
I really like it.
There are probably some whales as who are like, we shouldn't be celebrating the drunk lady. Because what I wondered when I first saw it was I wonder what this does to your career ongoing, like as in it's good lolls, but will she always be known for this? And I bet that she is probably beating herself up about that a little bit. But also I didn't know who she was before this story came out. And now I'm really impressed with her because I know she had seven crosses too outpointed.
People who have been watching religiously have said she's a brilliant reporter. So I think a lot of the good will has come from the fact she's actually really good at her job. She's been great at her job for this entire period. She had this one moment that she's gone, oh, I'm mortified, I'm actually really.
Bad and that job is so much more demanding than I realized. I mean, seven or eight crosses in one evening, when I'm sure she does have to wake up very early the next morning to cover that. I just had no idea that morning TV was that.
Brutal Can I ask you a question earlier because I wondered if this was a uniquely Australian cultural thing that was like we kind of loved when Karl was drunk on air.
We do talk about it a lot, we do talk fifteen years ago it.
Was, but arguably it was his making, right, It's.
Kind of his making because it was like Alarican Australia's the authenticity. It's like seeing your friend have a few too many at a party or whatever. How would this go down in the States. I'm wondering about the cultural difference. If this was a US reporter, do you think that viewers would be as accepting and gracious or do you think they'd be like I.
Think the reason why everyone in the world forgave her is because it does tap into what people, rightly or wrongly, for better or for worse, think of Australians, which is.
That they travel the world, they have.
A good time doing it, and they let loose and that is a national stereotype that has been exported. So when people saw that, they were relieved that Australians were exactly as they.
Imagine them to be.
And they're not wrong.
They're not wrong.
Lemonchella, that's what she would have been drinking, right, Milan, that would be surely.
And we've all had We've done live shows or I've done live television where no, no, no, where people have been offered a drink before and someone's had a beer or a wine or whatever, and I've been like, that is dangerous.
Oh Graham Norton show, they always have wine.
I'm like, I would not put it on my tongue because I just know I would forget.
I was on antibiotics or something.
And then it would react and then I do something really weird.
Bar soap is dying, and I, for one, I'm not happy about it. First of all, I need to know, are you a bar soap or a liquid soap user?
Jesse, I love me a bar soap.
Oh good, Okay, I do, Polly.
I have very strong opinions about the divide bar soap for shower, hand soap for sink.
Oh interesting. I want to hear more about that well.
Over the coming decade, bar soap is projected to become near extinct, which.
I feel very sad about.
Body wash has come to dominate the personal hygiene market, and this is in part because bar soap uses skew Old people over fifty five love some bar soap, whereas eighteen to thirty four year olds think.
That it's dirty and which it's not, which it's not.
I need to play you a grab that I think is to blame for why young people think that soap is dirty and awful. And it comes from a show called Friends. You may have heard of it. And here is Joey spreading lies about bar soap to Chandler.
Why can't we use the same toothbrush, but we can.
Use the same soap.
Because soap is soap, it's self cleaning.
All right, Well, next time you take a shower, think about the last thing I wash, and the first thing you wash.
Soap is soap. Chandler is exactly right.
Some scientists with too much time on their hands put some e coli, some actual e coli, on soap to see whether it would get contaminated when people used it on their hands.
Guess what, it didn't. Because soap is soap.
It is self cleaning. It can't grow.
It's like vaginas and ovens. It's self cleaning.
Exactly exactly right. Isn't it funny?
Though?
Because I kind of agree with Holly. There in the shower.
A bar of soap.
That is, because I have a sense that it's the most efficient way to get clean. Yeah.
I mean, I don't use the bar of soap on my body. I lather it up in my hands to get a really good lather going. And it's such an elegant des like it literally disappears when it's finished. Yes, be better. But when you're washing your hands, which you do more often generally speaking, at the sink was I don't want to be always reaching and it always goes a bit smaggy on the side of.
The thing it does make.
But then I was reading that if you have even like your fancy soap with your pump, apparently pump way dirtier than yourself cleaning soap because you've got your germs.
On that don't tell all the people with very sop soapsp.
Bottle with some gamart soap inside.
But even like environmentally, the idea that we've all gone to these kind of plastic tubs.
Petro chemicals slash, yes.
We just except now are in the shower.
This article that we read about it, which for some reason and was ten thousand words.
I was like, this is the longest dissertation on bar so It went into.
The history of bar soap, and I was like, look, I just have a feeling about it.
I don't need the history. It was in sleeate if anyone wants to read it.
But it was saying even at hotels they don't have it anymore.
A lot of places just have it on the wall.
Now hotels are apparently building in that kind of bolted on soap.
That makes me feel like I'm in a prison.
Yeah, and you don't know how it smells to you.
Pump it?
No, I like with a I can smell it before I run.
Okay, but here's the obvious, the obvious pushback to soap in the shower right now, if you live with someone grubby or people who are grubby, it's the hair that is the thing that people get upset about. And there are people in the world, and I believe that most
of them possibly called men. I don't want a stereotype who might well use the bar on their body, who get air or dirt in it, and then it feels icky, right, And if you're living with people you're not that intimate with to Joey's point, it does feel a bit like sharing a toothbrush, even though it isn't.
That is why the secret is that you need your own bar of soap, even though it's not.
With your name on it.
Well, we have always used separate soap because I agree that the.
Separate soap like a bar.
Two separate bar soaps, or are you in a bar soap liquid soapole?
We are in two separate bars. And when we buy it, it's like, here's your bar of soap, and this is it's not it just isn't covered in hair, so it's like mine will sit somewhere different. I know that that's mine, but I don't want to pick up like the little slither with like just.
A little round hairs on it.
That there's that guy like he will open the toothpaste tube.
Mate, you can afford you.
I do appreciate the free galley. It never goes astray.
But things aren't actually that bad, and so I'm often going into the bathroom the tastes they got everywhere. The kids are like, why does that do that?
I believe that is all we have time for on this Monday's when we are out loud on the number one podcast in the nation.
Do you think.
Hamish is a sparal liquid so so true?
I mean he's always in his house, so they've got the fancy it's.
Nice bar soap. It smells great, right.
I think you can get like designer bars a state.
Do you know that brand fancy? It's Australian and California. It's very fancy. And I went to his estate for a story and he started his very fancy brand making the most beautiful bar soaps from just herbs he'd gathered in the garden.
That should be Maybe our treat for being number one now is that maybe we don't need the home brand generic. Maybe we should buy ourselves and really fancy bodies.
What about like a branded Muma. You're out loud soap?
Oh yes, bring it on, Haron.
That can be my maternity leave project. Yes, yes, yes, I like that.
You needed a project.
We can call it don't want to get bored. We can call it number one. So anyway, thank you out louders for being here with us this Monday, and thank you to our amazing team for helping us put the show together. As you've heard from me and She and Amelia will be back in your ears tomorrow with a very special subscriber episode. Jesse and I, we'll see you on Wednesday.
Bye bye.
Mamma Mayer acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast.