You're listening to a MoMA Mea podcast.
Mamma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to mom and Mia out loud. What women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the eleventh of December. I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm MEA Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens and on the show today explaining the disturbing jay Z allegations that ended up all over the red carpet of a massive new Hollywood movie this week. Also, can You Copyright Your Vibe?
And the children's book I read to my kids every night for years has just been unmasked as the primary reason for generation anxious. Time to throw rainbow fish back, friends, but first mea Friedman.
In case you missed it, Get the ice cream ready, warm up the hot water bottle. Today is the day couples are most likely to break up.
Why. I don't know.
The eleventh of December is the most common day of the year for couples to split, and the date was worked out from researchers who analyzed Facebook data.
Ah, so you go from in a couple to single?
Correct?
And the December period more broadly is known as breakup season. So even if you manage to get through today, don't count your chickens, because it could still happen.
Well, I was going to say, the day is young. As we're recording this, there is still half a day for us to beat DOMP.
And the thing could happen when I get home tonight.
Psychotherapist and relationship expert Lyssi Abraham's told MoMA Mia that this time period can lead to increased tension because of all the stress that comes along with it. But we had a few other reasons that we thought about. Maybe you don't want to buy gifts because he lives.
Yes. I also I remember this time being with someone and thinking I don't want him to come to my family Christmas. And if you're in a relationship with someone, they kind of think they're coming, and it's probably a red flag when you go I'm embarrassed to introduce you to my family.
Yes, And other people are like, I can't do one more Christmas with her family? Yeah, and you go in.
It's a time of change, I suppose, because I think we're all beginning to imagine the new year and who we want to be, and some changes we want to make and you don't want to go into the new year with the person you.
Want to relaunch in the new year if you've got a bit of ick.
I also think the festive season is quite social, so if you want to put yourself back on the market, you don't want to miss out on December mingling.
No New Year's Eve, all those things you want to because if you broke up today, it's still a good three weeks before New Year's Eve, so it would be socially acceptable for you to be flirting. Hear us off yew Year's Eve party, exactly right.
The good news is that breakups on Christmas Day drop super dramatically because I guess no one wants to be that dick.
Who's got time for that. Jay Z has won twenty four Grammys, he sold one hundred and forty million records, He was the first hip hop billionaire, now worth a reported two point five billion US dollars, and of course he's mister Beyonce Knowles. And now he is also a man who has been accused of child rape in the most controversial of circumstances. If you've seen those headlines, here's a quick explainer before we go into how all this disturbing mess ended up on the red carpet of the
latest Lion King movie. Jay Z's real name is Sean Carter, and here's long time mates with another Sean Sean Coombs, otherwise known as p Diddy, who is currently in prison in Brooklyn denied bail. He keeps offering fifty million dollars bail to get out while he awaits trial. He's on criminal charges of sex trafficking, racketeering, and transportation to engage in prostitution. That court case is going to start in May next year, and it's going to be huge and harrowing.
At the same time, more than one hundred and twenty cases of sexual misconduct and assault involving Diddy are being filed through civil court, mostly through one lawyer, a guy named Tony Busby, who we will get to in a minute. As we discussed a few weeks ago, charges brought through civil court bear a lower burden of proof than criminal cannot carry a jail term, and are often settled with
a financial payout. Many of the cases around Diddy center around the so called free coughs that he held for decades, basically sex parties that involved drugs, sex workers being paid to perform, and allegedly the abuse of many of the
women in attendance. But what happened this week is that for the first time, one of those civil claims named jay Z. An unnamed woman says that jay Z and Coombs drugged and raped her when she was thirteen years old and at an after party following the two thousand VMAs. The case also alleges that a famous woman named in the case as Celebrity B watched the assault take place. Now,
this particular accusation isn't new. It was filed in October, but at the time it only named Diddy and then referred to Celebrity A and Celebrity B as having also been in the room. But on Monday, Celebrity A was named as jay Z. Now it's not a surprise that at some point Carter was going to be implicated in the Kumb's case. The pair have been friends for decades, have been in business together, and Carter was a fixture
at many of Kuhm's parties. And he was clearly prepared because he came out swinging immediately, saying that he'd been blackmailed by an unscrupulous lawyer who had demanded money, or he would name that Jay was celebrity.
A That statement was quite extraordinary, wasn't it?
It was. It's long and angry, and it says, among other things, my lawyer received a blackmail attempt called a demand letter from a lawyer. He puts lawyer in inverted commas named Tony Busby. What he had calculated was the nature of these allegations and the public scrutiny would make me want to settle, No, sir, it had the opposite effect, exclamation mark. It made me want to expose you for the fraud you are in a very public fashion. So no,
I will not give you one redpenny. These allegations are so heenous in nature that I am iplaw you to file a criminal complaint, not a civil one. Whomever would commit such a crime against a minor should be locked away. Would you not agree these alleged victims would deserve real justice if that were the case.
What did you guys think of this statement?
I had never seen a celebrity denial like this. This was different in a lot of ways. It was such a strong denial firstly, but the other thing is that not only did it discredit the lawsuit, but it went really hard on the lawyer, which you don't often see.
And there's a reason that he took aim at Buzzby, and the reason is that he is known as having a really aggressive way of forcing settlements and that can be to go to the person privately and reveal and he's admitted this, try and put a whole lot of embarrassing things out there and kind of go if you don't set or we're going to make this public. He is really interested in high profile cases. He was involved in the Travis Scott Astro world. I think it was
like a class action suit. Remember that there was a concert and there was a crowd surge and members of diect.
Yeah, is this something that I have a bit of a This is tricky and again many things can be true at once, which adds to the complexity of this. That doesn't mean his victims aren't real, and it doesn't mean what happened didn't happen. And yes, also jay Z is entitled to the presumption of innocence until he's found guilty in a court. All of those things are true, and mediation is usually what's recommended before you go to court.
I think it's worth noting though, that this is not a Gloria Alred. There are cases where it's a really respected lawyer who fights for you know, women's rights, victims rights, And again, you're absolutely right. But what's interesting about this lawyer is even I was looking at him, he's got quite a high profile. He has political aspirations, and on his Instagram profile he has like, I've won ten billion
dollars in damages. So what jay Z is trying to say here about money and a civil case as opposed to the federal charges that are against Diddy is an interesting one. Buzzby has also set up a one eight hundred number for people who are accusing Diddy or anyone else of particular crimes.
So they're soliciting for women to come forward, and there is some criticism, And now there's argubardi between jay Z's high profile lawyer who just was representing Alec Baldwin and has represented Elon mask. There's Argubardie now of him saying you're literally enticing these women to lie for money. But don't you think it's also as Mia says, in fact, that the two things can be true. There's the truth for money exactly, because this might also be the victims
of Diddy over many years. This might be their only chance to get anything that looks like some kind of justice because it's not all going to go through legal court. And I mean did he is facing undoubtedly jail time, but all of these individual women, the civil route might be their only way to get something like.
And the fact that there are so many women we've seen even with Bill Cosby, Like there's power in that solidarity with a lot of women coming together and telling the same story.
And also how class actions work.
Yeah, and like let's not forget as you were saying, Holly jay Z is worth two point five billion dollars, how do you not take a man like that down? But how do you even accuse a man like that without the power of someone like this lawyer. So a lot of people are kind of going into his backstory and looking at some questionable things. And so I understand why that was part of the pr strategy to be like, not only am I saying I didn't do it, Not
only am I saying I'm thinking of all victims. But if this were true, then why wouldn't you go for something bigger than just money? But it's also saying this lawyer cannot be trusted.
There are two ways of looking at that statement that Jay Z released, that was very long, that was clearly not vetted by PR people because it was full of exclamation marks. It did a couple of things. It centered his denial, like almost above the accusation, because it meant that his denial had to be pretty much published in full. He got to say a lot of things in that denial, and he got to it could be said, he got
to smear the lawyer. He got to make accusations of his own against the lawyer, and in a lot of the coverage, as I've read, a lot of media put that before the actual charges. So it really did center his defense. And there's something called DAVO, which is a tactic that's often used by a perpetrator or an alleged perpetrator. It stands for deny, attack, reverse victim offender. You deny that you did it, you attack someone. If you can't attack the victim, you attack the lawyer, and you reverse,
so you make it seem like you're the victim. So, yes, I've been attacked. He's coming after me because I've got money. This is a blackmail attempt, and suddenly the narrative is very different. That's what you would do if it was true, and that's what you would also do if it was not true.
Because the thing that I first saw was that jay Z had been accused, and that is enormous, enormous news. He is one of the most powerful, richest men in America, Like that is really really big. But I think that the reason why this has been such a big deal is because he had actually sued prior to all of this coming out, So that had been happening privately.
Do you mean jay Z had tried to yes, Sue, Yes.
So that had been happening under the name John Doe. Yes, that had been happening behind the scenes. Which brings us to Celebrity B. So we knew that there was another celebrity.
Who is named Celebrity B exactly.
Which is that there was a woman in the room and that has been a point of enormous discussion and speculation about who that might be because it's which is awful, Which is awful, but I also get it because this is to me, this is like a Jeffrey Epstein level lifting the lid on this subculture it's like we assume the worst of celebrities anyway. These are the most powerful people in the world, and the accusations I'm so boring.
I don't think we assume the worst of all celebrities. I don't. But I think if you've been best friends with p Diddy for thirty years, when these allegations have been widely known within the industry for a really long time, and now when you see what the criminal charges are against Diddy over decades, and you see what we all saw with that footage of him beating up his ex girlfriend Cassie, you would have to say there are some doubts cast over how much you did or didn't know one hundred percent.
The thing that troubles me about the celebrity b obsession and I've heard all the same rumors that everyone listening to this I'm sure has heard, and that been circulating around the internet, around the office about who that is and why that might be and blah blah blah. Is that beyond the fact that jay Z, as you say, one of the richest most powerful men in America in pop culture currency, The fact that he's married to Beyonce
is as interesting as anything else right. We joke that on out loud we like to refer to male celebrities, but which women they're married to. So in my mind, I mean, I think I can't think of any of his songs. Well I can because I'll go into that later. But he's also missed a Beyonce right and that. So this also spins into the celebrity fallout from this, which was then immediately on display on this red carpet the
following day. Because timing is everything, the story got released on Monday our time, Sunday their time, and immediately there was a whuha because Tina Noles, Beyonce's mum, very famous mum, appeared to like a post from a news outlet that reported it. So everyone was like, whoa, can we pause on that?
What do we think happened? Because she's come out and said she was hacked?
She and she.
Immediately said she was hacked, which is a modern classic. That's what you do. You like a post by mistake, and then you say it wasn't me, I was hacked.
Because everyone gets hacked just so that someone can like random posts.
But you think it might be more of a boomer issue.
I do, because at first I went, oh, my goodness, this makes him look guilty. This looks like Beyonce's mother has been sitting on this for ages, and she's like, finally he's been outed. And then I learned a little bit about our friend Tina, she's seventy and some of her social media behavior, and I went, oh, no, if this were my mum, she would absolutely accidentally like this post. Not accidentally, she would like it because she thinks it
means that she's telling people she's seen it. Yeah, so it's sort of buying it off as checks I've seen this, or I'm sending jay Z love or whoever.
So to complicate things, and I agreed, is a modern classic. I have been hacked. My social media has been hacked and someone tweeted something embarrassing about me from my account. This is back in the day of Twitter. So look, there's plausible deny.
They already there.
She could have been hacked, but I don't think it's probably more like a hay Boomer situation.
Tina says, I don't play when it comes to my family, which basically she means she doesn't gossip about it. Was she doesn't, She says, if you see so if you see anything like this from me, No, it wasn't me, which is also quite a good cloak. But Mia then we come to the Red Carpet because the following day one of the biggest holiday movie releases comes out, Mafassa, which is a Lion King spinoff, and both Beyonce and Her and jay Z's daughter Blue Ivy have roles in
that movie. They have speaking, singing roles in that movie. So the Red Carpet, they're there, and does jay Z go the day after he has been accused of a Heenus crime and vehemently denied it. Of course he does, Maya, what was that about?
That is a rich text if you watch the coverage of that Red carpet, It is a rich text for so many reasons. Blue Ivy has a starring role in this movie, Mafasa. It's a sort of sequel to The Lion King, and she plays the daughter of I think Nala and Simp. So this was her time to shine. This is her moment. This is kind of like Apple Martin at the Debutante Ball, except she actually did a thing instead of just wearing a dress and turning up.
She's twelve and she's wearing this incredible gold princess gown. She looks incredible, she's very tall. And the reason it's such a rich text. Before jay Z even arrives on the red carpet is that usually Beyonce doesn't do red carpets. She usually has her own paparazzi photographer. She comes either right at the end, her photographer takes photos and releases them, and she doesn't pose next to anyone. She's very, very
particular about what she does. She's earned that right. But as any mother of a tween or teen daughter will recognize the body language. If you watch the not just the still photos, but the footage of this blue Ivy's on the red carpet on her own, looking amazing, and then Beyonce like apologetically scurries just to stand next to her. She's in a much smaller dress so as not to
upstage her. She looks super proud. But there's all of that, and then jay Z arrives and when you look at the rictus grin on Beyonce's face, she's at work, she's supporting her daughter, she's doing what she needs to do. She looks like I can't even explain how she looks, and then jay Z's trying to be like cool and they're all trying to be like yep, we're just a happy family. Nothing to see here.
There's a world in which he didn't go to that right, Like, I mean, it would have been given what had just happened, but I suppose that maybe given also that he's come out swinging so hard, it was very important that he was there.
There's a world in which the publicist for that movie, the poor publicist for that movie, got her wish or his wish, And yeah, jay Z wasn't on that carpet, but it was a very again a rich text. It was giving everybody a very big message that beyonces behind him, Blue Ivy is behind him. They have nothing to hide, they have nothing to be ashamed of.
And that that and this is what his statement was about, that his family the victims here, that he has had to sit down with his children, as he said.
Yeah, he mentioned Blue Ivy not by name, but one of my daughters is old enough that was clearly Blue Ivy. I mean he put her in there. Yeah, So it was again plausible if you've been accused of something that you didn't do. But it is also an example of Davo h when the real victim here is Blue Ivy who's going to have her premiere ruined, and my family and me, and then Tina Noles was also on the red carpet, like you could, honestly, they could write dissertations about this red carpet.
And the real victim, obviously is the alleged victim.
And the optics of jay Z there to support his twelve year old daughter in this role when the alleged victim in this case was thirteen like a child, I think is startling.
There's something I can't stop thinking about. Right, There's a song by jay Z called four forty four, which my daughter plays in the car all the time because my daughter's really interrupt music. I don't know why she just is. And I obsess over this song because it's all about what a shit he's been, and it's an open letter
to Beyonce this song, right. It was released in twenty seventeen, after Lemonade, After Lemonade, after she released her album about what a shit husband he was, he then released his own but in it some of the lyrics are.
And if my children known, I don't even know what I would do a thing look at me to.
Say, I will probably die with all the Shane. My heart breaks for the day I have explained my mistakes and the mask goes away.
With Becky with the good hair.
I't think so, do you know what about something else? Because people might remember as well. We did an episode of Canceled recently on Beyonce. It was tongue in cheek and about a lot of the conspiracy theories, but of course the lift incident with Solange. So they were in an elevator leaving the met Gala, leaving the met Gala, and I think he spoke to someone at the met Galla and they think that something went off. Bet Solange
physically attacked him in an elevator. And what was most interesting to a lot of people was that Beyonce was in the elevator in the corner and didn't interrupt.
Didn't she just stood there and he also took it. What I didn't realize also reading about this, is that he's a fair amount older than her. There's photos going around of him when he was twenty eight with a whole lot of other dudes that were at a Destiny's Child concert and she was sixteen. The story that they tell is that they met when she was eighteen, and they were just friends for a year and a half,
and they only started dating when she was nineteen. I don't know how many thirty year olds want to be friends with eighteen year old hot young women. But anyway, I didn't realize that she had been with him since she was nineteen. She have her entire adult life, She's never really had any other boyfriends.
And that's what that song is about. And he talks in it about mena jatoires and all the things that, like, there's a lot of shit has gone on in that life and that.
Relationship in a moment, Can you copyright a vibe? One influencer seems to think so, and to tell you all about it after the break? Can you copyright a vibe? Sandra E Garcia wrote a very thought provoking piece in The New York Times this week all about a lifestyle influencer named Sidney Gifford. Gifford lives in Minnesota, and she posts about her home and fashion. And if you scroll through her Instagram account, which has more than three hundred
thousand followers, you'll find reels of white and beige. Home wears white and beige clothes, white and beige shoes. I'm not being snarky. That is literally her aesthetics.
Talk on Monday, didn't we about how color has disappeared, particularly from homes? And that sounds that's her.
You know you call it a neutral palette.
Yes, she is all neutral palette. Every now and then she does a jewelry flat lay. But she has a very clear and intentional look. But then something strange happened to Gifford. So a photo popped up and it was published by another influencer named Alyssa. Sheel Strangely, she actually knew Alyssa. They had met up, I think a year or two before to do you know how influences sometimes get together and gone make content. Anyway, they'd gone and
done that. Apparently it was a bit awkward. It was a bit weird, and Alyssa had blocked her and gone their separate ways. But a friend then sends her Alyssa's content and says, this is identical to yours. And she is struck by a post by Shiel where there's an oversized beige cable nit sweater. She has her hair parted in exactly the same way in the center her pose is identical, and Gifford is like foot forward, Yes, a jutted out hip. And she she's saying, this is identical
to something I posted a few days ago. She claims that Shiel had been mimicking her online persona and appropriating her look, her natural beige cream aesthetic. She was using the same fonts, she was using the same camera angles, and she even replicated her haircut and apartment. And this one did get me. She got the same tattoo on the same spot on her byfap.
Taking the piss.
It was on her side until just now.
Yeah, it's like a flower tattoo and like she died her hair and stuff.
Anyway, she says, single white female. Yeah.
She says that the imitation is costing her money. And this is interesting because she spends a lot of time curating her Amazon storefront. So basically she buys a lot of homewares, say, and then she markets those products to her audience. So it's an affiliate link. Yeah, it's an affiliate link, so people might not understand what that means.
So if you like my shorts, click on this link to buy them, and then she gets a little percentage of the cost of the shorts if you do buy them.
Yeah, so what giff That is doing is seeking up to one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in damages for lost income and mental anguish. Why I'm finding this case interesting is because, as The New York Times puts it, it gets to the heart of social media influence. Garcia writes, the very nature of successful trendsetting requires there's some degree of replication, and depending on what comes of the lawsuit, it could set an important precedent for influencers and how
they present themselves online. Maya, can you copyright a vibe? Or is social media just constant replication? Isn't that what social media is copying each other?
Yeah, that's what trends are. That's how algorithms work. That's how you get fed more and more of what you like. And I don't know. Some people have a really strong sense of their own style. I'm very porous when it comes to my style. Whoever I'm sort of looking at, I will start to emulate them. You know how some people will talk in accents when they're in other countries, and some people say that's really affected, But I do
it subconsciously. I've said before when I was hanging around Asher, and on the set of Strife, I started dressing like Asher and Ash's character Evelyn in Strife, which was like suits and sneakers, and that was a particular aesthetic I suppose, like with Trinny, I was wearing I love always won a lot of sequence. But I'm very influenced now. Addressed like a kind of an eccentric grandpa is my vibe. It's sort of a Copenhagen style. Why hagen Hagen, I don't know how you say it.
Am in Gifford's defense though, right the Amazon storefront thing is a limited market. If you both share a picture of the same white T shirt and I'm going to affiliate link by one of them, then there is only room for so many of you. So if I buy Hollies and not yours, then I've cost you money.
But it's like a hall of mirrors because if the point of influence is to monetize that influence by people copying whatever it is that you are wearing, what you've bought, what you're doing, then of course you're going to have lots of little clones out there who are then going to market to their It's like kind of like a pyramid scheme. I guess in a way, that's what influencing is one hundred percent.
I was going to say, isn't that the whole point of influencer is that you're like, you see somebody's lovely beije home and you go, well, I'm about to decorate. I think I'll decorate like that. I mean, that's the point of it.
I think too that Amazon. I read this article. It was in The Verge by Mia Sato, and it went into how a lot of these Amazon storefront things work, and Amazon actually tells influencers what they want you to promote. So the fact that every influencer you follow is telling you to buy the same Bucle armchair is not a coincidence. It's because Amazon is saying, let's put this in front of you, so it's less.
I've got a lot of bucle armchairs to clear. I've set up a storefront because people were like, where can I get this? Where can I get that? Except I don't know how to I have worked out how to use it.
You need to trademark. I fell into a dressing up box, had three martinis and all that. Because that's kind of your vibe. I'd like if I wonder if you could do that.
Yeah, I'm also.
Curious, Like I've got these yellow shoes that you guys just absolutely hate. Now I kind of use my social media to trol my audience, which is like I know that people are just going to hate these, and I'm interested to see if anyone would buy them. You know, this is how people are making income by doing these affiliate marketing. Like you've seen all these gift guides that we've just been inundated with every single person who's doing a gift gide.
I did one last week. That's all getting any affiliate.
Well, they're you stupid. So for most people that's affiliate marketing, and maybe you can get some And why not, Like if you're telling people to go and buy this sofa and someone does, and you're sending people that way, why shouldn't you get a little bit of it? Okay, but to neutrals and how you trademark them and one foot in front of the other. Yes, I mean I don't
know what's influence and what single white female. So back to the vibe, right, It's like, so if you do genuinely believe you were one of the early adopters of a look or a style of writing, or a style of you know, I mean, I remember that in the early days of Mom and mea there was a very distinctive Internet voice that then everybody started writing in and you know that happens all the time, and there are there's a language of the Internet. There's a language of TikTok,
there's a language of that. Everybody then picks up and goes with the very first person who ever said it. I mean, that's very hard to pick, right. So the idea of a vibe is interesting because she's right, like if that was very much her distinctive thing, and she's like neutral cell, groundbreaking. I I the first person who ever.
Put a beige couch on a grage run. They're like, that is hard to gatekeep. But there's something we're going on with the tattoo, That's all I've got to say.
Yeah, And this journalist who went and visited them both said it was like walking into the same home. She walked into the same home, but then she said, I think we're all living in the same home. Yeah, Which is your point, Holly from Monday, which is that algorithms have flattened our culture so much that we all just are kind of constantly replicating each other because it's being projected, and.
You often don't even realize why you do. It's like, there's a reason why the first time you see baro jeans you go uh yuck, the second time you go uh yuck, the hundredth time you go oh, and then the one hundred and fiftieth time you're like, I need some barrel leg jeans. Like that's how trends work.
Yes, but I suppose I'm thinking about the art of it all right. Like copyright when it comes to writers and artists and fashion designers is massive, and it's something that is really complicated because it's you don't really trademark an idea. What you can trademark is very specific.
West always saying magazines, you can't copyright an idea because women's magazines essentially would recycle the same stories among each other and among themselves again and again and again. It's like, Oh, it's September, it's the hair book.
And you're constantly influenced by lots of things. Oh, this is going well on this website, and this idea is going well, and we'll grab that, and every news site is writing around a TikTok, and in academia, your footnote, you're constantly referencing where something has come from.
So on Internet culture, I once did a thing where I incidentally I didn't realize obviously it had gone into my subconscious I did a thing of like a Celeste Barber, you know how she has a celebrity photo and then she does her version of it, and I thought, oh, there was this photo of Jal and I thought I wouldn't it be funny if I did my version of it? And then a lot of people in the comments were like tagged celest barbera and I was like, oh shit.
And what you've got to do is you've got to say ht, which is hat tip yes at Celest Barber. So that's the Internet equivalent of footnotes.
Yes, but broadly that has been entirely lost. I always see and I think that TikTok has a lot to answer for in this is that replication, trend setting, even templates is the aim of the game.
It's not a floor, it's a feature.
It's a feature. And I think there's something really depressing about that that I see a comedy video. I saw a comedy video the other day and I went, oh, that's funny, and then I realized that that was an exact replica of the comedy video that was made two weeks ago by this creator who probably got half as
many views. But the irony of all of this, the irony of the influencer coming out and saying, you copied me replica, blah blah blah, is that you know that buckle armchair that you are saying, I am the custodian of Do you realize that that is a replica of a much more expensive design, like everything on a lot of these websites is. And this is the problem with
all design. Any designer will say this that someone put all this effort into creating this incredible vision and then somewhere really cheap, really unsustainably made that piece of furniture so that everyone could buy it. And that's kind of where art design creativity. That's why it's dying.
All roads lead back to Meryl Streep in Devil Wears Proda when she says that about that jumper, doesn't.
She Okay, I see you think this has nothing to do with you. You go to your closet and you select I don't know that lumpy blue sweater, for instance, because you're trying to tell the world that you take yourself too seriously to care about what you put on your back. What you don't know is that that sweater is.
Not just blue.
It's not to her quoise, it's not lapis, it's actually ceruleum.
W was past. It's the end of an era, but the start of an a singing.
The Eras tour ended on Monday. Guys, did you notice no big surprises or announcements in the final show. I thought maybe she'd announced that she was pregnant.
Why would she do that? That is the most untailed Swift thing that she could do.
It was my fan fiction.
If she's pregnant, I reckon, she'll never tell us. I was like, I'm having this baby, Yes I am.
I don't know what you're talking about, Bessie. Secondly, as someone who I really like Taylor Swift, I'm not a Swifty. Why is it such a big deal that the Eras tour is over?
Okay, well, it's been going on for almost two years, around eighteen months. Actually, she's played one hundred and forty nine shows and the tour went to fifty four cities. In twenty one countries and five out of the seven constance.
Content type of a lot of letters.
Yes, there are a lot of consonants. In her tour, she missed no dates except for the three that she was forced to cancel in Vienna because of a planned terrorist attack. That's pretty extraordinary. She was not sick for a single night of those shows. They went for three and a half hours each.
Imagine the smoothie she's having. I would love to like she must be. You'd focus so much on your health and your energy levels.
Yes, much. She says. She doesn't drink when she's performing, and she's when she's not singing because she has like a few days break between each sort of batch of shows. She's on complete vocal rest because imagine she sings full out for three and a half hours often like three or four nights in a row, and then she'll have few days off. Anyway, listen to this. Her biggest show to date was at Melbourne Cricket Ground in Australia, where she performed for ninety six thousand people, of which I
was one. That's the one Coco and I were at and it is the best. It was incredible. That was the most people she ever played for I did. You're not meant to say that because I'll get you sorry.
I think people are right.
Yes, I did go twice. I also went in Sydney, but the Melbourne one was my favorite. Around ten million people have attended the Eras tour and she sang all too well. You know the song about Jake Jillian, that song she sang a ten minute version of that on stage acoustically. She plays it in every show, which means that she has played it for twenty five hours and eighteen minutes over one full day.
Imagine how sick she would bear of that song.
You know what I keep thinking about me, I've got more facts.
Just sush because it's important. The global economic impact from the Ears to her alone is thirteen to twenty eight billion dollars, which roughly translates to the GDP of a small country. And according to Forbes, she makes between ten and thirteen million dollars per show. She just paid out one hundred and ninety seven million dollars in tips to her crew.
She treats her crew well, she pays more.
Well, yeah, there's other facts, but here's what I.
Want to know. Well, what I keep thinking about rather is the relationship timeline because if on this December the eleventh, you did get dumped, I want you to think about how different your life could be at eighteen months. Because when Taylor Swift started that tour, she was allegedly still going out with Joe Olwen right, well we all thought so, yeah, she broke up with him. She had an affair with
somebody else, a flat Laddie Healy. I only just saw the video of the podcast where Travis Kelcey, so the tour had already started. Travis Kelcey talks to his brother about how he tried to go and give Taylor a bracelet with her number on it, and she wouldn't see him because she doesn't talk since that. Fast forward to the end of the tour. He's dancing on a freaking stage in a top hat. They're the most iconic couple in the world. And now Mia thinks that she's having
his baby. Yes she is. So I just want to tell everybody a lot can change in eighteen months. Look at what's happened to Travis Kelsey in eighteen months. A rainbow has been shot up that man's art. Eighteen months birth.
Stay to Taylor for two days time she turns thirty five on the thirteenth of December.
Holder sad Geez.
Speaking of tours out Louders, this is your reminder to buy tickets while you still can to our live show. Maya update at the top of our lady board.
On the leaderboard, it's still Perth Perth ninety five percent Perth. You nearly sold out.
Oh my god, I met some last week. You'll hear more about this in my best Friends and what some Perth out Loud and Perth out Louders and they might be the premium out louder there. I said it.
Every person you met in person they were coming to the show.
They did.
They all said I'm coming. I'm very very excited.
Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne are selling very very fast because out loud As are egger beavers.
It's the Mama Mia Out Loud Live twenty twenty five show. It's called All or Nothing and it's presented by Nivia Cellular. It's an all new show. So if you did come and see us in May this year. Not like Taylor Swift who's been doing the same show, Lazy Girl, She's so lazy that Swifty. We are making a whole new show for you, with all new costumes, all new gags,
all new arguments. You've got to come along. Head to outloud live dot com dot au to get your pause on some tickets before they sell out, and of course that link is in the show notes.
After the break, the children's book that shaped many childhoods is being canceled. Plus we have a couple more to add to our burning books list.
Oh my god, what unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Muma Maya subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week, and a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.
If you're wondering why you need therapy, it's time to blame the book you read when you were a small child. There's an article written for Mamma Mia this week by Cassandra Green called did this book shape your childhood? Apparently it's why we all need therapy, And the book is The Rainbowfish.
I love The Rainbow Feed by Marcus Fister.
It was published in nineteen ninety two and when I read this, I immediately envisage the book and knew the cover, and I did have that book and read it to my kids in case you can't remember what it's about, because I couldn't. The rainbow Fish follows the story of the most beautiful fish in the entire ocean. It is a fish that has shimmering, colorful scales. Although admired for its beauty, the rainbow fish feels lonely because it refuses to share its shiny scales with others. I don't even
know how that would work. After seeking advice from a wise octopus, the rainbow fish decides to share its scales, which sounds painful, realizing the joy of generosity and friendship. By the end of the story, the rainbow fish is surrounded by happy friends, having found true happiness in giving your whole?
Is that correct?
Because you could remember the rainbowfish?
And I thought that's lovely, And then I saw some of these tiktoks.
Not lovely because well correct, It seemed to us like the story of the rainbow Fish was an allegory for banishing ego and considering others before ourselves sharing.
Everyone needs to learn to share.
The fish learned to have a giving mindset instead of a growth mindset, and to care about those around him. However, psychologist Caroline Milsdorf on social media this week critiqued The Rainbow Fish, suggesting that it promotes people pleasing over healthy generosity. She argues that the story precious children to give up their uniqueness and boundaries to gain acceptance from others. So, yes, the book sends a problematic message. Children's value is tied to how much they do for others.
The world needs more people pleasing. I think people pleasing is a great message. The thing is about hoarding is holding your own scales. Now, holding your own scales is your instinct as someone with a child at the moment. Not sharing is the instinct. Hence why we write books about how we must share.
But Jesse must I share my skin with you? Literally?
I mean I know you bitches.
Where my clothes are lost?
Is at this the whole point that you walk around.
For example, you want to teach your child how lucky they are and how they have things, not because they're better than anyone else, not because they earned anything, but because they were lucky enough to be born with a particular gifts or rainbow fish still check its privilege yes, and walk around and go I'm going to give this to others because I am part of a community and this analysis is some neoliberal bullshit which is all about you're an individual and you can't give away your stuff
and you must just look after yourself, and which is very very damaging.
Yes, I agree, And I was like, what are you talking about them?
Then?
When I listen to what they were saying, these people, because she's not the only one, this woman on TikTok, they're saying that the other people are bullies, the ones who are saying, give me one of your scales, give me one of your scales, give me one of your scales.
You start off here with rainbow fish, just an introduction. This is the most beautiful fish in the sea. And this little boring ass fish goes, rainbelfish, give me one of your shiny scales.
You have so many.
Rainbowfish responds rightfully by saying, you want me to give you one of my special skills. Who do you think you are? Get away from me? This little punk runs away, shocked shit talks rainbowfish to his friends, and from then on nobody wants anything to do with rainbow fish.
And I was like, oh, they are She's right.
No life is just people asking you for shit.
They say that, no, wonder we don't have boundaries, because what the fish should have done is said, I'm very sorry that you would like to have some shimmery scales of your own, but these are my shimmery scales.
And I'll be trademarking my vibe exactly.
I'd never thought of it like that. It blew my mind, and then I realized, exactly what you've just said is that the rainbow fish is like a socialist parable right. It's like, oh, we share the riches between everybody, and it does not vibe with our individualistic times. But the thing is, I genuinely read that book to my kids every night, and I never thought of this, and now it's all I can see boundaries. The fish needs boundaries.
I don't think the fish needs boundaries. I think that the idea that you are part of a community is a very one and I think that we are overthinking it.
What about the bit where she says this is why all millennials people pleasers who suffer from burnout.
I don't think we are a bunch of people pleases.
Well, speaking of burnout, it's made me question everything, including where is the green sheep by our beloved men fox, which what's that Mourner is particularly interested in. Everybody's looking for the green sheep, Jesse. And they can find all the other sheeps. They can find bath sheep, they can find bed sheep, they can find red sheep, they can find all the different sheeps, but they can't find the green sheep. And do you know why why the green
sheep is asleep under a bush? And I think that's an all agree about burnout, social anxiety and quiet quitting. That's so true. I think that the green sheep is quite queer. I think it's quite quitting the book.
I do you think there needs to be people should just stop looking for the green sheep because the green sheep is worthless lazy.
Also, the green sheep needs some time to reach out to you social batteries, away from all the other bloody sheep doing things like going down slides and jumping off piers they're so busy, or the others of trains.
I think you're projecting. I struggle with the very hungry caterpillar because I think that it promotes disordered eating because.
It's it's binging.
It is binging, and it's a bit shamy.
But they're very hungry. Caterpillar eats his or hers way through lots of healthy food.
It's fuel to become like you need fuel.
Yeah, But then it's like, oh, and then the caterpillar had a tummy ache, and it's like, oh, you're trying and tell my kid not to eat as much as they feel like or are you trying to tell my kid that they must binge in order to grow.
It because they need to recognize the signals when they are full, and they shouldn't emotionally eat. I also, I think the hungry caterpillar is emotionally eating. I think that it was too feelings.
I struggle with you know how you were talking about the rainbow fish and how the octopus says something to it. It's really hard when a child is trying to understand the world around them when every animal in every book talks and wears clothes, up your expectation and has a half glasses, and you've got to go. You know what. Giraffes don't come up.
Much in puses. You might not ever see.
You might talk to one in your whole life. You're probably not going to talk.
To them, probably not going to bear a hat. No, exactly.
But this is why we give all the animals in our lives voices. This is why your dog talked like this.
Yes, I see a lot of sheep at the playground. There's not actually a lot of sheep. Where are the sheep? Why aren't they going down the slide?
Dear zoo?
Because dear Zoo is all about I wrote to the zoo to send me a pet. They sent me an elephant in a box. I'm like, we're not sending yeah, or a snake or a monkey in a box. You know, send them back. That's an episode and we know what happens when you send them back. They've got a landfill border force. What do they called Australian.
Control the landfill?
We really this is escalated quickly.
One of the things about children's books is they've always had allegories of messages, right, but not everything in childhood to be educational, we just need some books that are just fun.
Foster Blake's book about farts.
Yes, the reason kids like the rainbow fish actually is very superficial. It's because it's sparkly. That's why they like it. You get to touch the spark exactly. You get to touch the sparkly scales. It's beautifully produced. You can get a rainbow fish hanger, you can get a rainbow fish calendar. Good Not anymore, you can't because now it's been canceled for being the root of all evil. That is all we've got time for today, my friends. That is all we have time.
We've run out of time on the internet. There's no more space left for our consonants.
Just th that the Internet is saying enough.
Enough, because the Internet has boundaries.
They didn't read that book.
No one tries to replicate our vibe, because I would love someone to try and replicate ours.
I should say, speaking of our vibe that as we are the top of the leaderboard for women's podcasts in Australia, and we're number four for all of the podcasts, so well done to you for putting us there.
Really were as leaderboard. Obsession is getting out of control before we go. Almost every workplace has an inappropriate man in it. Actually not ours, not ours, momma. There are a few men here. They're not inappropriate.
I was going to say, except when my dog was biting people, But that wasn't a man, It was actually a girl dog. So ignore me and continued even work.
Then fold up your leaderboards and put him under the tree. It's a big We have a massive thank you to all of you out louders for listening to today's show and to our fabulous team for putting it together.
We're going to be on the top of the Lead Lady leaderboard if there wasn't for our listeners.
Thank you out Loudness. It's not about me as leaderboard. We appreciate you anyway. We need to write a children's book about that. We'll be back in your ears tomorrow. On our most recent Subs episode, em Vernon and I talk about Greg Wallace, who is a very problematic English TV presenter who has turned out to be very much that inappropriate guy in a workplace, and what the hell you do about and why women off a certain age in inverted commas may be the ones to call them out.
Maybe the reason that the women who are complaining about this are what we would call middle class and middle age because they're the ones who can complain about it. Because if you're the junior grip on the show or one of the makeup women or whatever, and you're young and you're at the beginning of your career. You're not going to go straight in with a complaint about the guy who's been hosting the show for twenty years. No, I don't even know. We're allowed to complain about those things.
You are absolutely allowed to complain about these things. But, as this story suggests, as a link in the show notes where you.
Can listen, Bye shout out to any Muma mia subscribers listening. If you love the show and want to support us as well, subscribing to MoMA mia is the very best way to do so. There is a link in the episode description