You're listening to a MoMA mea podcast.
Mama Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Holly, the out Louders are alleging that you made an error on Monday's episode. You don't like making errors. Would you like to make public apology?
I don't know if I'm prepared to make a public apology, because okay, it's not entirely clear that I was wrong, but I was wrong to her credit am our producer in the recording glimpse behind the scenes friends stopped me, yeah and said, Holly, I don't think that's it. You're supposed to say varlet instead of veil when you're talking about somebody who's passed.
I thought it was veil too.
And I wonder if it's an English thing. Of course, I want out louders to know that we do care. And before I came in, I googled and I did one of those sound pronunciations. But then, of course that might have been a different context for fail.
Well, there's only one way to know for sure. And I was thinking that we put apart up with the out louders and they let us know if they think it's veil of vallet because often it's written.
I used to think that it was veil, I think because I'd never heard it pronounced. Yeah, I heard someone say varlet and I was like, oh, I've been saying it wrong.
I'm saying brusketta.
No, I think it is. And I know some people were upset and they said, is it too much to ask that you could get this right in this context? And so I didn't want to. If I've offended anybody, I'm very sorry. Hello, and welcome to Mama Mia. Out loud What women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the seventeenth of July.
I'm Holly Wayne, right, I'm mea Friedman.
And I'm Jesse Stevens, and I want to do a thing.
Before we get what thing are we doing?
Oh?
Jesse, I want another thing?
Yes, you got things to bring. I want out louders wherever they are in the world.
Maybe they're on the fine, while they're on the walk.
Well, maybe they're in a very important meeting and they shouldn't be lea.
I often imagine an out louder on a tractor. Yeah, shout out to our rural out louders.
Well, I want you to share where you are listening to the PODCA cast today, and then I want you to tag mummy. Are out loud on Instagram because I want to go and have a look at the all.
I want to share them all.
I want to get excited. Yes, I need a visual.
Lots of out louders are doing things they don't like doing while they're listening to us. That's what they tell us. A lot is like, well, I'm laundry or cooking a meal, or cleaning up doing a boring work thing. You know, we're a little distraction, little treatment distraction. So we want to see this.
Happen, you know what. I want to make it a competition because I like to win the weirdest one, the one that is just the most interesting. I think they should get at the present like a Christmas in July, gift Christmas.
What about feature toys.
We should do our books, sign sign our books and write a little me or you're going to have to pick one of one of my which.
One of my book books?
Everywhere about that is you can have several books send your box. Also have several books, we'll sign them, We'll sign them and they.
Send them to you. Tag Mama outloud on Instagram. I want to go and have a little love you out loud.
On his claim on Today's show a bad taste joke and calls for deportation. Who had Jack Black on their Bingo card for this week? Also Violet Affleck for president. Well, look, there are worse choices at this point. But why is everyone talking about Ben and Jen's biggest girl? And if you don't watch out, these women will be heal bosses. The TikTok trend that somehow connected us and Andrew take but first, Mia.
In case you, mister Donald Trump has had a big week. There was, of course the attempt at assassination attempt on Saturday night, and yesterday he announced his pick for vice president. It is a man whose name you might remember.
It is JD.
Vance and he is thirty nine years old. And I know him because he wrote a best selling memoir in twenty sixteen called hill Billy Elergy.
Did you read it?
I did?
And is it good?
It's really good.
It's really good.
So he grew up sort of dirt poor in a rural town in Middle America.
The Appalachia.
Yep, he did. And then he moved to Ohio.
Yeah, and he was a marine. He was in and out of trouble when got a law degree. He kind of was like a troubled kid made good when into finance. He's married with three young kids, and he went into politics a few years ago. He's currently I think a senator from Ohio. Ironically, he used to be a never Trumper, which is the name. There aren't very many of them left anymore, but the name for those Republicans who don't want Trump to.
Be the leader of their party. So here's what he had to.
Say around twenty sixteen during the campaign when Trump was running against Hillary Clinton.
I'm a never Trump guy. I never liked him.
My current plan is to vote either third party, or, as I joked to my wife, I might write in my dog, because that's about as good as it seems. I think there's a chance if I feel like Trump has a really good chance of winning, that I might have to hold my nose and vote for Hillary Clinton.
But he met Trump in twenty twenty one, and look a romance clearly flourished. And here's what you need to know about where he stands now.
Jd.
Vance does not believe in abortion, even in the case of rape.
Or incest.
He does not believe in climate change, he does not believe in immigration, and he does not believe the US should support the Ukraine against Russia.
Privately, in twenty sixteen, in a Facebook message to a friend, he also compared Trump to Hitler, So he was very anti Trump. But I had a friend who said to me, if the Republicans could have invented a vice president of this party in a lab, they've just invented him like he under Trump under Trump because he is half the age of both the running candidates. He's thirty nine years old, which is very young for politician. I think you can
only be president after thirty five. So there are a few states that again decide this election, which I think you were saying just the other day. He appeals to them perfectly, refer to themselves, forgotten people, white, middle class angry. He is them, like this is going to play well.
He is.
Except so the thing that's interesting to hear you just said he's the person who design in a lab. He's actually not the safe choice. A lot of the commentary was saying that there were much more experienced people who would have been a good balance to Trump. Of course, Trump doesn't want that, and also that actually he might be a bit of a challenger to Trump, which Trump does not like. Right. Trump does not want to share
the spotlight, so that'll be interesting. But also some of the mega faithful are confused by him because he's married to the daughter of Indian immigrants and his children have what they term Indian names. Right now, this is for that particular part of politics. I've already seen the narrative that's like, he's not going to be our defender. How
can he defend wide America when he's not white. But the thing is is that in other quarters that will play really well for him because he also represents a very multicultural nation. So he's kind of a risky, slightly edgy choice in some ways, but a dangerous guy. And I always think the most dangerous people in the world are the ones who don't really believe things but will just swing with the time. We often talk about changing your mind as a politician or anybody, and it should
be encouraged because you know, we make statements. I do it all the time about things, and then you learn more and you go, oh, I was wrong. Strong opinions loosely so the generous take on the fact that he used to be a never Trumper who called Trump hitler. The generous take is that he's learned more and he's
changed his mind. But the more cynical take is that like many other Republicans, he's just swallowing whatever it will take to get him close to power, and those people are the most dangerous people in the world.
He's an opportunist.
Noman's Trump next Time.
On Sunday night, a musician named Kyle Gass made a five word joke on stage that would lead to calls for deportation, a public apology by his bandmate, and ultimately end their tour of Australia. So if you don't recognize that name, Kyle Gass and Jack Black, who you might know from School of Rock and Kung Fu Panda who was recently here promoting Kung Fu Panda four. They make up a comedy rock duo called Tenacious D. Their most famous songs were Tribute and Greatest Song in the World,
which were early two thousands hits. Anyway, they're at Sydney's ICC Theater, about nine thousand people in attendance. Tenacious D were performing and Jack Black asked his bandmate if he had a birthday wish, which is what you just heard there, and he says, don't miss Trump next time. Referring to the assassination attempt over the weekend, Senator Ralph Babbitt, an Australian politician and member of the United Australia Party, called for Black and Gas's visas to be revoked and for
both band members to be deported immediately. Anything less than a deportation is an endorsement of the shooting and the attempted assassin of Donald Trump, he said. Just hours before their Newcastle show was due to start, Tenacious D announced the show was canceled, which was followed by a statement by Jack Black. He said, I was blindsided by what was said on the show on Sunday. I would never condone hate speech or encourage political violence in any form.
After much reflection, I no longer feel it is appropriate to continue the Tenacious D tour and all future creative plans are on hold. I am grateful to the fans for their support and understanding. Gas then released his own statement very similar. He said he improvised on stage and what he said was highly inappropriate, dangerous and a terrible mistake. I think it's worth being frank in this segment that that was a joke that was uttered in a lot
of private circles over the weekend. Trump himself has incited political violence. Many people around the world see him as this existential threat to democracy. But Gas did not make his joke at a private dinner table. And if a different artist had joked about assassinating a politician we all liked, then I think we'd probably be horrified, and potentially some of us would have the same response as Senator Babbitt mea, what do you make of calls to deport the pair?
I think deportation is ridiculous, and calls for it are just really opportunistic and virtue signaling and just silly, just silly.
Frankly, like it got the attention, the letter got the attention of Elon Musk, so it's like it's a call for just generating story big ye.
Yeah, of course.
And I think we're increasingly seeing this when people pull focus on situations to make it about themselves, and Elong Musk is one of those people, you know. Not long after the assassination attempt on Donald Trump, he brought attention back to himself by endorsing him for president, like within about thirty minutes of that happening. So I think that
we're often seeing this. People are being an opportunistic and using the misfortune of others, or the mistakes of others, or you know, the wrongdoing of others in many cases to put themselves in the center of the conversation. And I think that's what this is. I think that jokes don't always land. We've learned that at airports, that there are some jokes that just you just have to be
very careful. And of course, the first thing I thought about with the Dixie Chicks, who were canceled before canceled culture before even the Internet. In two thousand and three, the Internet was around, but social media wasn't around. They criticized George W. Bush's war in Iraq, which is kind of quaint now because a lot of people criticized that war at the time and afterwards, but back then it was seen as being very unpatriotic, and they never recovered
one of the three women in the Dixie Chicks. It was like a country band said it, and they pretty much lost their career after that. Natalie Mainz at the time said in a concert also to their audience, just so you know, we're on the good side with y'all. We do not want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas.
What's interesting about that example is that the three of them banded together and stood.
By what was said right by one of them by.
One of them in this Do we think that Jack Black has thrown his mate under the bus, that he has betrayed his bandmate by coming out and saying I don't endorse it.
I do think that, But I also think that Kyle Gass probably knows that Jack Black had no choice. So they've been mates for decades, right. They were like mates when they were struggling actors together, and then Jack Black did High Fidelity in School of Rock and became like a massive star, and he and Kyle Gass have been in this band ever since then. They've literally been doing this for thirty years, so they know each other pretty well. Right,
It's not surprising what their politics are. They've spoken out about Trump lots of times. They're doing a whole lot of Rock the Vote concerts in America over the summer in the autumn. Like the people in that stadium would have been middle aged, left leaning, paunchy rockers. Right, massive generalization.
Apologies to anyone listening who was in that audience and doesn't fit the metal, but you know what I mean, like broadly speaking, and I doubt that very few of them would have been shocked to hear what they heard. But of course the context changes immediately when it's taken out of there and shown around the world. I was surprised that Jack Black made that statement, but I also can see how in this particular climate, he has no choice.
I don't think it's the same as the Dixie Chicks, because I think that the reason that that was so damaging for the Dixie Chicks was because of who their fan base were, and they were a much bigger deal and who really gives a shit what Kyle gastinks about Donald Trump? And they also weren't joking. No, they weren't joking.
So I think that's a very different environment. It will be really interesting to see how many legs this has got and how Actually one of the reasons why it was a really stupid thing to do is that one of the absolute cornerstones of MAGA philosophy and world belief is that Hollywood and music and basically culture is full of lefties who are elites who scoff at, you know, the real people, and this just plays into that. So nobody's surprised when Hollywood actors or musicians or whatever say
I don't like Trump. I'm a Democrat. It kind of hands, for want of a lesson, sundry word, ammunition to the other side, right, So it was a stupid thing to do. But I agree with Mia that I think that the politicians who are jumping on this and calling for deportation, it's virtue signaling and it's canceled culture from a corner who normally say they hate that, who normally say, we're all about free speech. Yeah, are you that?
I also thought it was interesting Kevin rad who's the Australian ambassador to the US, released a statement saying it's repugnant. It makes him physically ill any threat of physical violence, and he said that these men should grow up and get a real.
Job, mate, which I thought was really interesting.
I'm conflicted, right because on the one hand, I like freedom of speech, and I like that you can make a joke, and I like that you can make a joke that offends people. I think that's your right. On the other hand, I have this real discomfort, as we were talking about on Monday, with where the tone of the debate and the temperature of the debate is and a loss of all civility when it comes to political discussions.
So when I heard that, I just thought, exactly as you were saying, Holly, this it's a stupid thing to say. And I went down this rabbit hole of a bunch of Republicans saying, you know, this is what they're saying about us, And it had a compilation of things Democrats have said. I forgot about when Joe Biden said basically if we were in high school, I'd taken behind the
gym and punched him in the face. About Donald Trump, there were people sitting on like round tables, like commentators in the US saying they're going to have to go out and put a bullet in Donald Trump. And that's a fact. I forgot about Kathy Griffith's holding the the head decapitated head. I saw another video of Madonna and she was at a protest and she said, I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House with Donald Trump in it right. I thought about that tone.
But Jesse, please follow up now with the list of all the things that the Republicans said, and the fact that the whole premise of Donald Trump's presidency is built on this kind of we're the oppressed, we're rising up, we're taking them out. Like my see Taylor Green, who's one of the most rabid MAGA senators, came out and immediately after the assassination and said Democrats language blah, and then there is literal footage of her holding a rocket
blaster blowing up a car that says socialism. Like, mate, I'm with you, I'm with you.
But we have been having this discussion about Republicans for eight years, since twenty sixteen. We had this watershed moment in twenty sixteen. Oh my goodness. We're not understanding each other. There's this divide. Everyone sees each other as enemies. And I don't think we've learned anything if we're using the same language and not doing a bit of a But I.
Don't think that's what this was. Firstly, I don't think that's what this was.
And secondly, I'm going to challenge you on this because I think that analogies and metaphors about war and guns. I've kind of ingrained in us right, Like just earlier, I made a comment shots fired when I was responding to someone in a meeting about who was being critical about something, and it was like, oh, shots fired. At the moment, that has a whole different meaning, because you know, Joe Biden did say talked about having something about a
bull's eye. I think it's unfortunate language, and nobody wants this.
I worry with this both sides.
Ism that you seem to be leaning into, because I think that the person who brought the language down and the debate down in politics and in American politics is Donald Trump.
Yeah.
Absolutely, he was grabbing.
He was mocking disabled people.
He's been the ones talking about Hillary locker up, all of those kinds of things. He's encouraged that in his base, and he's the one that has pulled the public debate into the gutter and language.
Absolutely, if we are to return political discourse to any state of civility, yep, then you can't have people standing at like in front of nine thousand people. Let's just to say that that was an unfortunate use of language. What gas did. He apologized for it. I actually don't. I think everyone says that.
Just make the very clear one that he's not a politician.
But wait, let's just think about what he's do.
And he doesn't represent a party.
But someone stood on if I went to a concert and someone stood on stage and said, basically, I think that if someone takes a shot at Anthony Albernezi, they should get in between the eyes so that he dies, I would be so horrified that this is about violence, that's not democracy, and that's what happened.
Well, it is. You're right, and I think we've all said, stupid joke, don't do it. But it's I don't think it's really an example of you know, the discourse that's fallen into the toilet in political circles. These are not politicians, they don't represent politicians. These are comedians for making a stupid, ill timed, dumb joke that, as she said at the beginning of this, a lot of people are making. But he did it in the wrong place, wrong time. I'm not defending it like he shouldn't have done it.
He's so very different making a joke that way, saying I hope someone does blah blah blah, or I wish someone had done blah blah blah. The context of it was and I'm not saying it was a smart thing to do, but I'm saying the context of a joke versus something said like is a threat or a statement is different.
Yes, But as soon as I heard this, right, remember Milo Yanapolis, I do he was and Andrew Tape figured Stroud is. I went for a story to go and hear him, probably six or seven years ago. It was terrifying that night, right, and I went in and he had a prominent feminist and he put her face up on the screen and people oinked, and then he said something that was I think unequivocally inciting violence, and I was horrified. I was scared. I wanted to get out
of it. I don't agree with Milo Yeanapolis broadly. I probably agree with the politics of gas. I'm just trying to think that if you didn't agree.
But again, you've just said that's a threat versus a joke.
My point is maloy Yianapolis would have said it was a joke. We're all having a life.
Yeah, I agree with that, and you know, you know who he works for now these days where he's just resigned. Actually Kanye West anyway, fun fact, I agree with you, but again, that was a political meeting in lots of ways, that's what Milo Yanapolis dotes. And also he was allowed in and they didn't ban his visa. No, and there was a lot of protests around, but there were I know what you're trying to say. It's trying to say, look, we're a bit hypocritical here. We're going like, if I
agree with it, it's kind of fine. If I don't, then he should be thrown out of the country. I totally understand that. But I also think I have been to a lot of comedy shows where people say offensive shit. Am I willing to sit there and pay my money to do that? Maybe I am, Maybe I'm not. That's my choice. I just think this hole he should be deported. The visas and this is an example of the of exactly why Trump was shot is a massive overreach.
No, I'm with you on that. I don't think he should be deported. But I do think that Trump is about to be the next president of the United States, and if we keep representing him and all his supporters as these degenerates and speaking in ways that are incredibly disrespectful. This isn't working, This current discourse isn't working, so we probably.
To a basket of deplorables. Did not work that well Hillary Clinton, as we discovered. But in terms of Tenacious D, and to just finish that off, the Dixie Chicks could never outrun that. They ended up having to change their name. They're now called the Chicks.
And they wrote that a great song.
But my point is that I think Tenacious D will struggle to continue in this form because Americans don't have a sense.
Of human which is ironic that they have no sense of.
Humor or no leeway when it comes to threatening an elected official and the president and those kinds of things.
And yet it's such a gun culture.
Hell, I have a new hero. She's eighteen. She grew up in Los Angeles, California, and Jalo is her stepmom. Meet Violet Affleck, who is currently having a moment as a hero of the long COVID community and single handedly being a magnanimous Switzerland in her dad's new strongly rumored divorce. Confused, let me explain. I'll get the gossip out of the way first. On the weekend, Violet Affleck, who is obviously
the oldest child of Ben Affleck and jen Ghana. She looks so much like she exactly like Jen Ganna and glasses like exactly. It is amazing. On the weekend, she was photographed hanging out with her stepmom Jalo in the Hamptons. On the same day, her dad was photographed in La on his motorbike. So obviously all the paparazzi informed salutes have deduced that Jlo is getting violent in the split.
Maybe she is, I don't know. But also the reason everyone's talking about Violet Affleck is because on July the ninth, she appeared at a local LA government assembly and she's about the importance of mask mandates in public spaces, and she spoke about the danger of the so called mask bands that are proposed in some American states. And I'll get to those in a minute. First, here's what Violet Afflecks said.
Hi, Violet Affleic, Los Angeles resident, first time voter AM eighteen. I contracted a post virile condition in twenty nineteen. I'm okay now, but I saw firsthand that medicine does not always have answers to the consequences of even minor viruses. The COVID nineteen pandemic has thrown the end of Sharper relief. One in ten infections leads to long COVID, which is a devastating neurological cardiovascular illness that can take away people's
ability to work, move, see, and even thinks. Stands to exacerbate our homelessness crisis as well as the suffering of many people in our city. A hits communities of color, disabled people, elderly people, transpuple women, and anyone in a public facing essential job the hardest to confront a long COVID crisis. I demand mask availability, air filtration and far UVC light in government facilities, including jails and detention setters, and mask mandates in county medical facilities. We must expand
the availability of high quality, free in treatment. And most importantly, the county must oppose mask fans for any reason. They do not keep us safer. They make vulnerable members of our community less safe and make everyone less able to participate in Los Angeles together. Thank you.
First of all, how cute is that, how nervous she is. She has prepared this amazing speech that she wants to say, and you can tell as she's breathing and talking really fast that she is eighteen, and she is like shitting herself.
She also knows that people have a short concentrations fan so frankly I appreciate it.
I knew you would.
Now, people who look at paparazzi images clearly that's not us. Clearly it's not us. They're awful, etc. Have noticed for years now that Violet always wears a professional grade mask when she's out in public with her mum and her dad, are siblings, whatever, and.
Her always thought that that was that she would have some privacy because when you've got the paparazzi following you, as they have particularly lately, but since they were little kids to you know, school concerts and everywhere, just going to the shops whenever she's with her parents, and now even when she's not, she gets photographed. So I actually thought it was an ingenious idea, but I was so interested to see that's not why she does it.
Her appearance at that meeting confirmed what people who notice such things, who are largely in the long COVID community, have long believed. She's passionate about this issue because she herself has experienced long COVID. Now, obviously she hasn't been specific in discussing exactly what's happened to her, but she
says in there that she suffered from it. Now just to explain the mask bands that she was talking about, and the reason that she stood up in that meeting is that in some places in the US, including LA and New York City, there are proposals to reinstate old historic laws that made it illegal for people and particularly groups of people to cover their faces in public, and some of the impetus for this has come from the
recent unrest around the anti war protests. So those in favor of banning masks and face coverings say that criminals and violent protesters are hiding their identities in public, and those who are against the mask bounds say that banning masks poses a severe risk to public safety, and Violet Affleck is on that team. Jesse, are you impressed that she's using her adjacent celebrity to help highlight something she believes in.
I am impressed, and I think the mask conversation is fascinating because the mask has become a signifier for a time everyone wants to forget, So COVID was something I feel it In Australia for a lot of people, it meant not seeing family for years, It meant kids that could barely leave their homes. It might have meant illness, it might have meant lost jobs. Like it was a
time that was collective trauma, collective trauma. Right, And so when we see a mask, I think it is almost like a deeply human thing that you go, no, no, no, it's over. It's over, that's behind us, Like there's that
sort of thing happening triggered even. Yeah, And what's really difficult for the long COVID community and what's difficult with invisible illness because a lot of the symptoms are invisible in the same way that chronic fatigue has always been a hard illness to get people excited about and interested in, because a lot of people go tiredness, yeah, oh and go to bed. Yeah, Like people aren't good at that. The thing with invisible illness, what you need is attention,
and no one wants to talk about COVID. And in order to even fix it, you need funding, which needs attention, which you can't get.
But it's surely about anybody who's in me no compromise, right, It's not just about people getting long COVID. It's you know, if you're having chemo, if you've got a compromise immune system in any way, you'll struggle and you want to really try to avoid not just getting COVID, but getting the flu and getting all the other things that go around.
Yeah, and so you see a lot of people still wearing masks at airports. So I originally saw this story and went go violent, affleck, I cannot believe that they trying to outlaw masks. And then I went deeper on the story and it's actually quite interesting.
I felt so too.
It is, but I've done my research too. But it's like there is a difference between a COVID mask and a face covering, right. So a lot of the discussion around these mask bands are saying that, right because in lots of states of the US and in places in Australian in fact, it's a legal to cover your face in certain situations if you walk into a bank, take off your motorcycle helmet. Like some states in America have outlawed ski masks in public, for example, which seems sensible.
But there is a difference, right, Yeah.
But then at the beginning of this conversation, Meyer said I thought she was wearing a mask to obscure her identity so that she didn't get recognized for being famous. Right, I needed to look at images because the New York and the LA thing is actually run by Democrats, because I went, if this is a Republican thing where they're just going take your mask off, because they were always antique COVID.
A mask is really just an avatar for progressive because the thing is, understand we're talking about American politics so much, but what's interesting about masks is that nowhere else did masks become such a political symbol, so that like, if you were a Democrat, you were pro vaccination and pro mask in the height of the pandemic, and if you were a Republican you weren't.
And somehow I'm generalizing, but that's it.
Kind of it became political. But then I was having a look at some of these protests, and some of them have had instances of violence, right, And when you look at it, we're talking a guy Fawkes mask, like a full mask where you can't see their face as a non mask, and what I saw as well was a COVID mask. But then wearing something over your hair as well, you know, for example, in a lot of the Palestinian rallies, they might have something over their head as well.
A hat or a scarf around their heads.
So if you've got a mask and you've also got yeah, hash or something, then in terms of protesting, I do believe there was a really good quote from one of the Democrats in New York who basically said, like doctor Martin Luther King did not hide his face when he marched and for the things he thought were wrong in the country, those civil rights leaders did not hide their faces. They stood up. In contrast to that, the clan hid
their faces. So what they're trying to say is if you protest, you've got to have your face to it, because the disorder that occurs when people are anonymous not good not good, which I kind of agree with. But then I think that the people wearing masks for the reasons of health are very different people wearing.
Won't work. And the likes of violent Affleck are talking about it right because, as you said at the beginning of this, the thing that really challenged for the long COVID community, if there is such a thing as community, but is that, as you say, we want to talk about COVID in the past tense. We want to pretend it's gone away, But for people who have suffered really seriously with COVID, and there are lots and lots of them whose lives have been appended, it hasn't gone away.
So the point they're trying to make, and whether violent Affleck is trying to make, is that with every infection you increase the risk of this happening, a larger and larger group of people are going to get seriously ill. So you know, when she's talking about we need better filtration in public buildings, we need mask mandates back in
medical centers, those kind of things. Is it's basically a group of people who are saying, hey, take it seriously and don't conflate with hand concerns with vandalism and crime.
It's also that group of people. It's a feminist issue, right because long COVID disproportionately affects women and older women, which are people that we generally don't give too much of a shit about and too much.
Yeah, I thought this was such an interesting story and I loved it because it challenges you. You straight away you go, oh, I know which side I'm on, and then you go, oh, that's interesting.
Two things can be true.
Dare I say I never knew there was ever any consideration of banning people wearing masks. I can see where two very different groups and their motivation for wanting masks banned are very different.
Because the Australian Olympic team.
Right, yeah, because there are some people who want masks banned for other reasons, and you saw that in the commentary. So some of the Australian athletes have arrived in Paris and the first selfie that they posted, they had their masks on at the airport. Now, as you said before me, are still lots and lots of people.
Doing our tour.
I wore masks and this is even before two of our production crew got COVID when we flew to Brisbane. But I was very conscious when I was wearing masks, and I was going to ask, you, guys, what do you think when you see people wearing masks? I had to reassure the person next to me. I was like, oh, no, I don't have COVID. I'm worried about getting COVID because usually when.
I see it. Now, for a while, I thought, oh, they've got COVID.
Well, I generally think that that person is probably really cautious about getting COVID, and I often think it's for the reasons that we've just been discussing. So there are some people who are much more, much more COVID aware still than others, and they're often the people who have
experienced really serious implications. Do you think the thing about the Olympic team, Sorry, just to finish that story, is that so they posted the pictures of themselves with the masks on, and a certain amount of the commentary came not from people who were worried about them covering their identity in case they're going to commit crime, but to point out that Australia is such a nation of snowflakes.
How ridiculous is this? Because is still a political undertone about mask wearing in some quarters.
Yeah, like, don't be such a pussy wif you've got a mask on.
Because I'm an Olympian, I don't want to get COVID before my rain.
It's interesting that because before COVID, certainly in some Asian cultures, when you're sick, you wear a mask, right, which is we understood masks to have a double benefit. It prevents you from spreading, and it prevents you from receiving germs, and so I think it's interesting you see it now whole that the only people wear it wear it to protect themselves. Do you think people wear it when they're sick?
I mean, my parents recently had to travel when they had at the end of COVID, and they wore it because they didn't want to give their germs to anybody.
Do you think people do that?
Yes, I do that because I have to say, even though I'm super sympathetic to this sort of invisible community of people, I am not as diligent as I think I should be in public spaces wearing masks. But the time that I'll definitely do it is if I'm sick. When we were traveling a little bit, I had a cold and it wasn't COVID. I tested a minals in times, but I was very weary at those times of wearing a mask in a taxi, wearing a mask every time we were anywhere, because I was like, it's funny because
sometimes it's about what you're so social. It's kind of like virtue signaling in a way. I know that's a pejorative term, but because you're kind of like I do care about not giving it you.
I appreciated it.
I knew we were sitting in a lot of back of ubers together, and I really appreciated that you were a mask because I knew that you're sick and we were all trying so hard not to get sick.
So no, I appreciate it.
What do you think what about the Violet Affleck of it all? Because often celebrity offspring they go one of two ways that are either like completely hiding from any kind of attention or they are straight into the movies and the modeling contracts. Oh no, this is a very do you think this is a very righteous way to use your I liked it.
I mean I think she did it as a citizen, not as a as an adult of celebrity. And everything that I've read about this, I don't know if strings were pulled to get her to be able to speak. But Ben Affleck did an interview recently where he talked about one of his children and who is a socialist and who challenges him on everything, and how much he enjoys being challenged by his teenage children.
I think this was a great way to caught attention about something that is very difficult to make sexy.
She was in the Hampton's photos with j Lo, also wearing a long COVID T shirt, so she knows exactly what she's doing.
Oh yeah, smart girl.
What unlimited out Loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively from Mum and MEA subscribers follow the link in the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week, and a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.
Set jeans are really nice.
Top jeans and are really nice. Stop jeans and are really nice.
Stopken phone saves a broken phone. Okay, out loud, I'm going to explain something to you like your five, because it is confusing.
Not to patronize, but to assist.
I needed it explained to me like I was five at the beginning of all this, So I am amongst the confused. What you just heard is us and that was my idea. Yesterday we posted to Muma mer outlaud socials our version of a TikTok trend that is going viral.
It started with these.
Women in the UK who were on a night out and they just started doing these hype girl chants sort of describing what they were wearing all their personalities.
Here was the og boops is back bun.
Boops islet back bunch coboat boots and the blowy cobo boots and the blowy Sam was.
A little red bag. Sala was it a little red bag?
So they have a lot more rhythm, Yeah, they do.
So they were like describing their uniform like they're going out uniform. So it was like Sam is in a little red bag, boots and a slick backbun, and so that became the thing, right, So I was like, oh, I had to read an article to understand what that was. And then on the weekend I saw that Amy Poehler did one with Rachel Dratch and another well known comedian, and here's their version.
Sent a black short dress. Oh, send a black short dress and a kashmere shirt. Pony in a kashmere shirt.
Some of it a little blue bead. So you get the idea.
We didn't.
What a surprise, and so then I said, hey, guys, we should do this and be cool, and we did. And do you know who doesn't like it? Yeah, loud as a lot of you said that it was pathetic and creed cringe, which is the worst thing you can.
And you're desperate to make content where we all looked at each other and we went they we are desperate to make You are totally right.
But the person who doesn't like it the most is Andrew Tate. He does not like the women doing the TikTok dancers because there was yet another I mean, this is what viral means. I'm not going to play you every version of this that's ever been done, because that's what a viral trend is on TikTok. But there's an Australian business called TBH Skincare and they did their own.
Okay, so and you.
Tate reposted that video and wrote on social media, if you do not escape the matrix, women like.
This will be your boss.
Zogcorp loves emasculating men by forcing them to listen to semi sentient females. If that doesn't motivate you to get rich, nothing will. And then, of course what happens is that everybody was very reasonable about that.
Just kidding.
All of his commenters, no doubt death threats to those poor women, and many suggested that the young workers should get back in the kitchen. Another commenter claimed this was proof the gender pay gap should be reinstated, which was very interesting news to us, because the gender pay gap in Australia is very much alive and well and is sitting at twenty one point seven percent according to the
Workplace Gender Equality Agency. We spoke about on Monday's show Katie Perry her saying that her Woman's World video click with satire, and we said, but it's not funny.
Is this our Katie Perry moment?
Because we're like guys were with satire. It was we were being satirical about this trend, which we actually thought we were.
Okay, so women didn't invent this game, they're just playing it. I'm going to explain this to Andrew Tait, the little girls. The little girls are going to have to explain to Andrew Tate how the world works, all right.
Like he's a big strong man, he'll understand.
Yes, yes, exactly right, Okay, Andrew Tate. So there's this thing called TikTok and is where everyone lives. Now, you go on TikTok and its surfaces trends, right, that's what happens. You've got to jump on a trend if you want to make it big on TikTok, and so you do it trend and then people like it, and then people follow you.
And a trend usually they don't mean anything.
That don't mean So why would you just do a trend so that people say it? Great question? Andrew Tate. The reason is so that people follow you. But what doesn't matter whether you have a lot of followers on TikTok, Well, Andrew Tate, the thing is this corresponds directly to people buying your product or consuming your content. Now, TBH skincare have about fifty thousand followers on Instagram and TikTok I
have quite a bit. And earlier this year they released a new face, wash right, and immediately they started selling one a minute. And the reason why was because it was going viral on TikTok and the TikTok algorithm picked it up and they were just able to sell, sell, sell, and.
I want it now.
Exactly how it works.
I didn't even have to see them content. You have to tell me it's gone viral and I'm like, where's my mind?
That's how it works.
That is how it works, Andrew Tate. Because I've never heard of t oh, you definitely have. Like it's in Priceline, it's in Coal's, it's the Door Beauty, and it is a multi million dollar company.
And it is a young woman's business, a.
Young woman who has grown this from the ground up. I'm like, mate, they are laughing into their money, doing their silly TikTok dance. And I heard him say, Simmy, your boss is doing this. Do we want to talk about what the boss of Twitter is doing? Because Eli Musk, I went to see what he's done the last twenty four hours. All he does is share memes of dicken.
Balls, sometimes boobs.
He wore a T shirt that said I love anal.
Oh right, Sometimes he'll share a picture of boobs and he'll just write boobs.
I want to so disturbed whole thing, but I want to bring it back to the silly little girls who might be your boss one day, including us.
Right.
So that was a very good explanation of why TikTok, why viral?
Why us?
Right?
So obviously bother me are out loud?
If you can smell the death O, yes, you're not wrong. No, it is the smell of It's my.
Question right about all this?
Because I love this story on so many levels. But Andrew Tator is also terrifying, and I hate laughing at him in a way because I'm like genuinely dangerous person with genuinely way too much influence on the world. However, there is a little bit of truth in this little bit that I want to prosecute. When we did that trend yesterday, and like, I don't mind doing these things.
Like when I forced you to both do that, I don't.
Mind doing these things. But you know, this is what brands do, and this is what media organizations do, is we'll change strategy at different times and we'll go, let's
do some fun stuff. You know that we share lots and lots of clips of the show and topics that we're discussing, and in our Outluders Facebook group we'll ask people's opinions and do But then we also do some just silly stuff, just entertaining stuff, right, and this is part of that, and try and go viral being silly because and this is one of the things about this, right is that sometimes I watch it back and I read the comments like in this case, and there are
quite a lot of out louders who are all so smart women going like come on, stop it. And sometimes I'm like, yeah, you've got a point better, because I wonder if we're fooling ourselves if we think that we have credibility as commentators, journalists, authors, whatever it is, if we're also going teams are a really nice, stops are really nice. And I'm genuinely conflicted about it, and we can multi Yeah, that's what I mean. So I'm not saying that I necessarily land on the side of idiots.
Don't anyone ever listen, But it's genuinely confusing because the lines used to be much clearer. Right, serious people do serious things, Silly people do silly things, and now we have mixed that up a lot, but sometimes lately got a little far.
Don't hate the player, hate the game, It's true.
But Sales isn't doing that.
Yeah she's she's.
Not doing not no no, but she will do silly things at the ten shows and on podcast she will.
Yeah, but there's a place for it.
Right.
My question is only and I'm not putting myself here as a person who doesn't like because I think it's fun and I like it, and you know, I consume that content. I couldn't stop watching those stupid videos after he put them me onto them, it's kind of hypnotic.
I'm just like, oh.
Also sometimes I'm like, I'm never gonna little pull its.
Yet that's a given.
A doesn't have to. I gave jeans and a really nice top, jeans and a really.
Nice do you know how many? Where's mine?
So is that do we think that's dead? And particularly for women because as you very rightly pointed out Jesse, men are doing very stupid things, but they look a bit different. They're generally not doing that kind of thing. Is it just dead the idea that we used to have that, like, as I say, serious people do serious things. Do we just think that ship has sailed?
Yes?
Yes, I think it is because there was a great story somewhere about how everyone has to sell out now and remember when, like poor authors, all authors want to do is be in a quiet room with their laptop, writing alone in silence. And yet now when you write a book, the first thing you publisher says is BookTalk. You've got to make funny tiktoks do a dance, and Moriarty had to do that. And you could just see all these authors who would obviously have been told that
by their publishers, and they just looked. I didn't cringe looking at them, but my heart broke for them because it's like, oh, criky.
Because the skill sets are different. In the same way that we often say the politician is going to get elected because they're really good at speaking to crowds and reving people up. Isn't necessarily the right guy to be doing the minutia of like whether or not this build should be amended, Like the people who write the books are not necessarily really good at doing ron TikTok dances.
And my general line with this stuff because obviously, if you live on the internet and you are promoting your wares on the internet, which we all do all the time and many people do, and it's how you build business and fah blah blah, my general rule is does it feel like me? You know, like, if it doesn't feel like me, then people can smell an authority a mile away. And I think for some reason, there was something about this that a lot of our outlanders just went no, no, no.
No, why did we do that?
And when we did the high kicks and the jump splits last week, when we were doing the satire of DCC and the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders, and then the week before that they loved it when we impersonated the way Prince William dancers versus the way Travis Kelson.
Maybe that felt maybe it was connected to the show or connected to topics that we're discussing, Like I think sometimes that's one of the things. I mean, this is a problem for our next meeting. But I think it's interesting when people are looking at the Internet and they're thinking, why is that person doing that? And why is that person doing that? And why does sometimes it feels so right and sometimes it feels so wrong. Sometimes it's hard to put your finger on it.
We need a social media strategy.
Should we get to write you win a signed book if you would write our social media strategy, but also two copies. As much as I don't like to laugh Andrew take because think he's a dangerous idiot, I do laugh at this. Women like this will be your boss one day. I'm like, you should be so lucky already freaking up.
They will.
If you haven't seen the videos and you're like this does sound cringe, I'd love to watch it. In fact, I'd love to leave comment about how much. I hate it.
Sure, Jesse the great on follow was about to happen.
There's a link in our in our show notes. I don't know how I feel about it. I wasn't particularly.
Lastly, I thought it was some of my best works.
Speaking of things, Oh my god, I'm so sorry.
Another thing our listeners didn't.
Like subscriber episode.
I'm not even going to tell you what we did our subs episode about. We'll put a link in the show notes. Let's not speak for it ever.
Again, very ashamed. But it was also a lot of fun.
It was a lot of fun. Thank you to all wonderful out louders for sticking with us as we make messes all over the internet. We love you a lot. Follow our show, follow our show. We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks to our fabulous team for putting this together.
We'll be back in your ears jeans in a really nice time, Jean's in a really nice time.
You always have.
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Way to do it.
There's a link in the episode description