You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to Mama Mia out Loud, where women come to debrief. I'm Holly wayIn Wright.
I'm Meya Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens and I'm a little irritable. Would you like to know why I'm irritable today? It is because over the weekend I went to the gym because all the people on the Instagram a telling me, I need you got to limp and if you gotta lift heavy, however much you're lifting, lift more.
Was a big conversation on mid the other.
Wak exactly right, And I listened to that and I went, all right, bone density tick, gonna.
Go and lift heavy.
So I went and I lifted four kilos heavier than I normally would.
I did well. This was like I was doing like a squat.
Thing and I got a twelve kilo ped all bell whatever you call it. Anyway, I did a squat and I felt my lower back go and like it was in the first two minutes of being at the gym, and I have been limping all.
Weekend, because it's not like you can stop lifting.
I've got a twelve kilo toddler who isn't just a dead weight.
She actually resists.
Against me a lot of the time when I'm holding her. Now, I just have this terrible back.
That's funny because I was also lifting on the weekend, and I lifted a bit hard too. I don't think I did twelve kilos, but somehow lifting a toddler doesn't feel as heavy as lifting a weight.
It does mean when they're trying to throw themselves out of your hand.
But I've also been lifting a little hard.
Holly has your back, mate.
The only thing I lifted on the weekend was a cup of tea in a sandwich, So my back's just fine. I'm ignoring all that wise health advice anyway. Friends, unless you're perhaps wisely avoiding everything news, you would know that this weekend America back to Israel's war with Iran, and talk of what this escalation means for the world is everywhere.
If you want a calm headed explainer of that, please go and listen to today's episode of The Quickie, where Claire Murphy and Taylor Strano do what they do best and give a very clear overview, complete with some expert commentary. It's really good listen.
But here is what is on our agenda for today.
We're going to unpackage because the jury is out and I'm part of the jury.
I tried to sneak it in twice last week. Now I'm doubting it.
I am responsible for this new piece of podcast furniture agenda sogenda is vernacular that we use. We do when we're talking about put that on the agenda. Usually it's before we have dinner. I used this with a lot.
Of groups, so a portmanteau it is of and agenda.
It's not really clear why our agenda has anything to do with the vagina, but it does. Sometimes we actually have a vagenda notesapp going we do for dinner where we put the things in.
Well, because I'm just like a group of women talking about some things, they have some things on the vergenda. Yeah right, it's tongue in cheek. It wasn't meant to be thought of this series. Well. Anyway, on our agenda for today, if you haven't heard about the wedding of the year that's happening in Venice this week, you won't
be able to miss it. Pretty soon, Amazon founded Jeff Bezos and astronaut Lauren Sanchez and making it official, and we are going to unpack the twenty seven dresses, the protests, and the affair that kicked it all off.
What you have heard of friends is let them. And if you came to our Mama Maya out loud live show, you've also heard a foul mouthed version of that. But there's a new one. There's a new let them. It's called who says, Oh, we're going to tell you about that?
And Jamila Jamil is done being interviewed by other women.
Does she kind of have a point?
But first, if your dad was a Russian billionaire, would you expect a cut of his fortune?
I think my dad is the opposite of a Russian billionaire.
No fortune coming for you. What about if you'd never even met him? I want you to meet this guy called Pavel Durov. Now he founded the controversial messaging platform Telegram. You might have heard about him. He got arrested in France a while ago. He's a little bit dubious, but anyway, he is worth a rumored twenty one billion Australian dollars and He also, like other billionaires, really really really likes
father and kids. Apparently between the kids his father in what you might call the conventional way with a partner, and the sperm donation that he kind of advertised, like want to have my baby, come and do it. He reckons he's got more than one hundred children, and so far that's quite typical. There are quite a few of these guys that called pro natalists, who believe that smart
masters of the universe, like themselves, should breed more. But what's a bit different about him is that he's gone public saying that in about thirty years he's going to split his entire fortune between all of the children. So the more than one hundred children, whether they are children that he has fathered actively or just the sperm donory ones, that will probably mean, depending on how many more he has, that these kids will get about two hundred and sixty million each.
Wow.
So what he's done this is really interesting. He's essentially gamified it and it'll now become like a hunger game situation among women who want to have children and have access to that kind of life. The lottery.
Yeah, there is this term that I learned over the weekend called accidental incest, which is being referred to because you do have some sperm donors who are donating so much and creating so many kids. There was an instance in Australia where woman was talking about it where she said that people that were half siblings were finding each other at parties not knowing that they were half siblings.
Did you watch that documentary The Man with one hundred Children a thousand? That was about exactly this. And there are these men, the pro natalists or whatever their issue is or their reasoning for it, is that they are
just spreading their sperm literally everywhere. And most sperm banks in most countries and states have limitations on how many times you can donate for this exact way, because in a particular town, for example, you can't have too many kids that are around the same age they might you know, hook up. But these men get around it by going to different countries because there's not like one international sperm bank that regulates these things. So it's a real issue.
I'm worried about the proliferation of these precise genes right because it's like, what are we genetically privileging? If you're a pro natalist you're a particular type of person. Think about Elon Musk. What does that do to the human race? If you've got a very specific type of man who is fathering hundreds and hundreds of children like that is worrying going forward.
Jamila Jamil is.
Done being interviewed by women. Jamil is a thirty nine year old actress. People might know her from The Good Place. She was in that, but she's more so known as a body positivity advocate. She was very vocal when the Kardashians were spooking their dietees, and she hosted a podcast called Iway with Umila Jamil, which was very very popular. Recently, she was actually a guest on No Filter. She was in Australia.
I have seen her in The Good Place. She was great in that, but more people would probably know her from Instagram. She's a feminist, well, she's identified as a feminism and speaks out about all different kinds of things. She's very outspoken on.
A bit of a commentator.
Yeah, and over the weekend she published a sub stack with the subject line I think I'm done being interviewed by women. I am disgusted, and she says her trust has been broken for the last time after a toothy opinion piece in the UK Times, which we're going to get to in a moment, but after being interviewed in print for more than seventeen years, she says she's only been treated fairly by women three times, where she says that male journalists have always given her a fair shot.
When she read the profile, which was written to promote schod new podcast out called Wrong Turns and a Pixar movie called Elio where she voices one of the characters, she said it was like reading the gossip section of her Wikipedia page. She said it was cheap and bit she intended to embarrass her. And we don't interview men like this, opening with paragraphs about all of their controversies. Holly, before we go any further, can you give us a
sense of our primary source here the Times piece? What was the vibe of the Times piece?
Yes, so it was written by a journalist called Liz Edwards, and Jamala Jamil makes the point in her piece that usually she's a travel writer at the time, so that's kind of true. She does do a lot of travel content. But one of the things that is eye opening about this really is that when I read it. It didn't strike me as particularly toothy, but I see Jamala's points. So here's just a taste of it.
Right.
So the first thing is is that the online headline is Jamala Jamil I stood up for Megan long before I met her, referencing Meghan Markle. It has a different headline in the actuals. I think it's from the magazine from Sunday Time with magazine, and it starts like this, It says Jamala Jamal says she does not need your approval. I don't personally like that many people, so I think it's ridiculous for me to expect other people like me, says the thirty nine year old TV presenter Da Da
Da Da Da. Talk about her social media rows, as they say, and they cherry pick a few comments when she called a famous actor a freshly wanked cock, for example, and she said some pissy things about several people. And then the writer says, all of this might mean you'd expect her to be prickly company, but she's more cats
poor than cactus spikes. She's in velvet. She's funny and self aware and disarmingly polite to me, to the hotel bar staff, whose best efforts at finding us at the quiet table come to nothing, and to the waiters.
Blah blah blah.
So this to any journalist, they're establishing color right like, they're giving you a sense of the person. This is what profiles do. She goes on to talk about what she's wearing, what she looks like. She says that she looks great in what she's wearing. It takes a bit of a turn. The writer talks about some of Jamila Jamil's stated life story, which is she says she has had several different health issues, She's struggled with the eating disorder,
She's been in two different car accidents. And the rider seems to be saying a lot of things have happened to Jamila.
Which the writer isn't the first person to say that. There's been enormous controversy and kind of an internet massive discussion about whether or not some of those claims are true.
Yeah, And the journalist brings up, for example, a spat I guess a social media spat she had with Piers Morgan, and Jamil says, I have no interest in even continuing this line of conversation. Jamil now says, coolly, echoed by alarmed murmurs from her publicists at the next table, foolishness is something we should discourage in the media. She records our whole conversation, if I go down in flames, I want to go down in flames based on my own words,
not via made up nonsense. And then, and this line is one that Jamela particularly took issue with. The writer says, the clause retract and congeniality resumes. As we chat over the array of tapas that arrives.
The clause is are loaded. There is something sexist about that. You would not use that terminology about a man. And a lot of what Jamila Jamil writes is true, and she's right, but there's an irony to it because I thought that some of what Jamil wrote in her substack was also laced with a little bit of sexism about the writer.
Did anyone else notice that?
Yeah. One of the things I think is hard to unpick here is celebrity profile writing suddenly feels very different now, and it's not as in the form is not like the way that this article starts. Jamila Jimil says she doesn't need to approval full stop. It's like classic magazine writing. You start with a really pithy line, a statement, and
then you're building a case. Almost That's what every profile writer does, is they meet a person, they spend some time with them, and then they're kind of laying out their case. And this is what Jamil takes issue with. She says, you know, why are they always prosecuting me and whether or not I have a right to say things, you know, my personality rather than my work. And this is something we've discussed on this podcast a lot. Women do very often get judged much more for who they
are than what they do. One of the things I have issue with here is I also think this is how male profile happened to a little bit less commentary on what they're wearing. But this is the nature of the beast with a celebrity profile. And now that we all speak so directly, like when Jamela, for example, was on Now Filter with kateline Brook, brilliant interview, really insightful,
she is entirely presenting herself right. There's no editorializing, and that's one of the reasons why it feels so authentic and real, Whereas the whole point of a celebrity profile is it as editorialized right, Maya.
I find this whole thing completely exhausting, completely exhausting. I find to be Frank Jamila Jamil pretty exhausting. I think she's quite typical of a certain type of online personality. And I probably used to be a bit this myself many years ago, until I made a conscious decision not to be. It's like, you want to dish it out, but then when someone criticizes you, despite her saying, including in this profile, she says, perhaps this is my superpower.
It makes me untouchable and quite dangerous. I'm immune to being judged because I don't care. Except she does care, to the point where she's written this multi thousand word takedown on substack, which is absolutely her right, and I have to say I empathize.
With her a lot.
I've had profiles written of me that have made me feel exactly like this.
I remember in the earlier years of me working with you, Mia, I remember in our old office, an esteemed publication was doing a profile. A journalist basically followed you around for a couple of days, right, sat in on a few meetings, interviews you like, this is how profiles work. Yeah, And how how do you feel about those or did you feel about those It's not necessarily that specific one, but
those pieces that sort of conceit of journalism. How did it make you feel when you saw yourself reflected in those eyes.
There's a good reason they don't do them anymore, because they have to find an angle. It's not a what's you know called a hagiography, It's not a fluff piece. No, And she says, why didn't she engage with me about the issues I talk about? It's like, it's not up to you. You're not the editor of the Times. You don't get to decide what this journalist says about you.
Another one of her complaints is that this woman who didn't know me, who didn't know anyone who knows me, how very DAEs she write about me in this way? And it's like, well, that's how interviews work, Like that's actually how interviews work. And then she goes on to say, well, I've interviewed people and this is how I do it.
What I thought about is, in this age of social media, when everybody's used to being able to speak for themselves and control the narrative, when someone else speaks about you, it's suddenly like, how very dare you, and again I also know how that feels too.
If I was sitting in the editorial team for The Times, my defense would be, it is a profile promoting Jamila Jamil. There was a photo shoot involved in it. She was getting something very clear out of this. It wasn't a community service engagement, and she wasn't there being the face of a charity. She was there promoting her work, which is her right, and her work is a new podcast called Wrong Turns. That podcast is all about failures, embarrassing moments,
perhaps vulnerabilities. Yes, what the author wrote about was thematically not irrelevant, like you could see how even I'm a pervert for failure or whatever was the line, It was sort of relevant to the subject matter.
But I think that people have really got to understand, including people who are interviewed, is the journalist doesn't choose
the headline, doesn't choose the pool quotes. So those quotes that come out, that's all chosen by the sub editor or by the editor, And of course it's designed to take the most interesting, controversial part of the interview in the same way that she did that with hers by using the very rage baity headline I'm done being interviewed by women, which she did the exact same thing.
That's what I take issue in a bit, because I think she's got a lot, as we've discussed, she's got a lot of fair points about it. It is true that women can be very highly critical of other women. We're very aware of that. But by doing that and taking that headline, for a start, it makes every female journalist, probably including myself, very defensive because you're like, well, you know, we're not all out here trying to take people down.
But also it is rage bait, just in the way that she complained that the reason that the Times Online editor chose the Megan Markel quote, which was one tiny bit of the interview where basically the journalist says, do you know Megan, do hang out? And she's like no, Like I was interviewed by I once, I defended her publicly in the same way of defendants of women who are criticized.
Which was a very understandable question. And I have to say all three of us have read the original source materials as well as Jamila Jamil's piece, and that was in the context of her talking about how her and her boyfriend moved to La You know She's also been interviewed on Megan's podcast Jamila Lamil. So it wasn't a crazy question to say, hey, did you hang out? There's another couple there that have also moved from the UK and around the same time, do you guys hang out?
It was a reasonable question and she was like, yeah, we've had dinner a bit like.
I know, but it's been pulled as the news line, which is what every journalist does, right as you pull the news line the most interesting, sallacious bits.
That's not the journalist's fault because they write the piece and they don't know what's going to be pulled out as the headline or as the pull quote. That's not in their control.
So what I struggle with, and I've seen this within feminists fears quite a bit lately, which is that someone sees something that they think is sexist or misogynistic by another woman, and then in the name of feminism, they call that woman old or ugly or a pick me girl or something, or a misogynist, which which I still go, mate,
you're using the same trope. So for example, there was one line where she said, please God, may I never find this is Jimi La Jamil Please, God, may I never find myself middle aged dedicated to taking women trying to do something positive in the world down a peg or two. I hope I'm still directing my energy towards progress, not taking the bins out for the patriarchy for a
paycheck and a pat on the head. There were lines like that in it that I just thought that just feels as though it's laced with sexism in the same way.
Yeah, there's a certain type of online feminist who I've read described as a self aggrandizing and abrasive version of feminism that they're peddling. So it's they'll really dish it out, but then when it comes back to them, they cri misogyny, they cry how unfair it is, and it's just very I don't know, either you're in the arena or you're not in the arena.
But well, yes, but not everything's fair in the arena, right, Like I think it's fair enough to call out when you've been misrepresented. I think it's fair enough to call out when something's damaging or defamatory or whatever. Like, I don't think it's fair to go in the name of selling a TV show. You should be fair game for all kinds.
But whole Why does she keep saying I'm immune to being judged. I don't care what people think of me. I don't care what people think of me. And then there's a profile and again she talks about I did contact the journalist. There's been no response, no apology, no deletion, no removal of the piece. And it's like this other media the world, this is the Internet. And if you're going to again, if you're going to be in the arena, you're probably going to get a bloody nose in the arena.
And as a woman of color, she cops so much more than most women. And it's true, she gets trolled. Every woman online does she does that little.
Bit more well, and outspoken women do cop it more. And I think that you could read a profile on someone like Harvey Weinstein and he wouldn't be described as controversial. Like controversial every woman in the public eye is described.
That's true. Even the word outspoken. How often do you hear Troman being described as outspoken. I think there's a lot of truth in what she says. It just really riles me that in saying it, she has smeared a whole lot of women in a moment the new theory that challenges MeTL robins Let them friends? Why do you wear a bra?
Because I'd hit myself in the face if I didn't.
Yeah, so that my boobs don't hurt yourself?
Well, yeah, because it's I.
Feel uncomfortable, although I also feel uncomfortable.
So the reason I'm asking this question is because of a story that I just read. It's an important part in this column I just read by the Herald journalist Kate Halfpenny about a counterpoint to the let them obsession. She is writing in defense of the who says theory
and let me explain the bra bit. She opens with the story of a friend who was complaining that her bra was cutting into her shoulders right, and a friend who was with her said that she never wears a bra, particularly in winter when you've got five layers on, like who knows whether your boobs are down round your waist or up near your chin, and said, why would you wear one unless you were meeting the bank manager. The conversation, Kate writes, spurred Amy to do two things. First, abandon
a bra unless she's working out. Second, ask why it took her until she was forty to question doing something every day that she hated. Now she asks who says when making decisions, Who says you have to wear a wretched undergarment just to create a pleasing silhouette. Who says you have to have porridge if you want pancakes? Who says you have to behave mia. Let them was your word of the year this year, but your relationship with it has changed.
I think that this idea of let them is very linked with passivity, and that can sometimes be a good thing because we can twist ourselves into notts about things we can't change people in our lives, geopolitical situations, and so let them was just basically the only thing you can control is how you feel about a situation. We sort of started to talk we talked about on the
show about Michelle. Obama brought a slightly different energy, which is a little bit more fuck em, which is kind of like, you don't have to be all sort of Buddhist and zen about these terrible things that are happening, or these people that you don't like, all these situations that you're not comfortable with. You can actually be a little bit more burn it down.
Yeah. I think that when we say let them.
I've tried. I've tried.
I'm not being honest with myself for others.
I sometimes you do need a little bit more venom, which is why I think fuckham has really helped. I'm not going to do anything like I think that Jimila Jamial probably should have said fuck him and then like quietly to yeah, just quietly to herself, for example, rather than going into that fight mode, which is you know, totally understandable as well. But I really liked the who says theory because who says I can't wear a shirt with a bleached stain on it?
I have two bleach stains on this shirt.
I just who says I can't wear the same jeans and the same shoes to work every day?
Who says I have to wax or lays in my bikini line?
It's funny. When I was going through the who says though, I went, oh.
Maya, like, it's true that this is what Kate for one?
Who says that I can't wear the same James to wake everything?
Kate Halfpenny was riding about that. Increasingly, it feels like there's an army of people on the Internet giving us more rules, like more rules all the time, rules about your face, rules about your food, rule camelte, rules about your gene shape, rules about your socks, ruled about shoes. And she's like, we all absorb them and then constantly feel like we're wrong. And she's like, the anecdote about the bra is kind of like, obviously, if it's for
your comfort, go for it. But if it's just because the world has decided there should be something between your nipples and your outer garments. Who says, I like this energy and I should have written this bloody story because I have a post it on the wall of my office that says, you don't have to and it is like my little mantra because for.
Someone with that post at Hollywayen right, you things that you don't want to do.
I know, but you know how it's supposed to be my year of not which is clearly going on really really well. But as me and well as you guys know very well, I don't like feeling like I have to do things, and I get a lot of freedom when I can reframe it. It's like, you don't have to, but you're choosing to, even if it's kind of bush.
So I sometimes get this phrase in my head, you're not the boss of me. Yeah, exactly right.
It's like that. So it's like I don't have to be governed by my group chats. I don't have to like look forty when I'm fifty. I don't have to say yes to everything everyone asked me to do. That would make so life easier. It's like who says, who says? It's a little bit toddler though, isn't it?
It's very two year old.
I don't think it always is, because sometimes it's just about really challenging your own internalized preconceptions, because you're right, you're like, well, who says and apart from me says like, well, why, I remember once interviewing someone and I can't even remember how it came up because I'm soogynist, and I was asking her about VPL Remember when that was the thing visible panty line?
Oh you've never never taken that a.
Long time ago, And she's just like, well, who says it has to be something that you're ashamed of? Who says it's something that you should have to try and hide?
See, I think that my mantra is a little bit it's none of my business, Like my VPL. My visible panty line, which I know I have, is none of my business because I can't say, only you can.
But then you bring it up, and that's who says.
Then I says, Mia says after the break, We've got some scarless gossip about Katie Perry. Every Tuesday and Thursday we drop new segments of Mum and Me are Out Loud just for Mum and Me as subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to get your daily dose of Out Loud and a big thank you to everyone who is already subscribed.
Friends, I would never engage in scroless gossip. I'm above it, unlike you to. However, the news is bleak. There is a lot going on in the world keeping me and others up at night, and so I would like for just one moment to reflect upon Katy Perry's alleged separation from Orlando Bloom, for which we have little to note proof.
Are you ready will allow how alleged is it?
Sources? Tell people? Okay, can you give me a percentage on that?
Oh, People magazine, People Magazine.
Yeah, it's pretty solid.
That's pretty much like a publicist making an announcement. Great, Okay, that's or you make announcement on the notes app.
Great, Okay.
So the pair met in twenty sixteen and then in twenty seventeen they actually had a year long break, but then they got back together. They had a daughter who can remember her name Daisy, Yes, because she brought the Daisy to space.
Wasting my brain cells. Since nineteen ninety.
Five, there are reports that Orlando Bloom mocked Katy Perry's space flight.
Very dare he?
How dare he?
Because he would have gone up there in a heartbeat? Are you telling me that Orlando Bloom would have said no? Like he is so a go to space guy?
Is this the story that the reason they've broken up is he was embarrassed by that.
So there are a few reasons.
One is that they got into a fight about the spaceflight and he said, I told you not to do it, I told you they'd be BackFlash and you didn't listen to me. Apparently that fight happened in the middle of the night, which I just feel like is an important tatail.
So the leak's here are the house staff?
Okay, we've got.
It, or Daisy.
The second thing is there are reports that he is going to the Bezos wedding without her.
Because she's in Australia tour Australia.
She was at Laurence hend she was exactly and she can't go because she's in Australia and she's mad because she's like, Orlando, you're having a go at me for doing Blue Origin, but you're going to Lauren's wedding.
So apparently that's created a.
Bit different going to wedding and going to Spain.
But apparently they're not even Orlando's friends, they're her friends.
No, I wouldn't be happy.
So then sources told People earlier this month that the reception of her new album and reviews of the tour has caused tension in her relationships.
Still having a.
Great year, She's not.
Everyone, including lots of that lauders who've been to the show in Australia say it's great. Just in a quick I've heard Katy Perry.
I've heard that too.
I have just a bit of relationship advice looking at this, and I think it's just a bit of wisdom that we can all live by. You got to choose someone who'd stay with you through Blue Origin. Yes, look at your partner and go if I had my Blue Origin moment, which we all will.
But he has he has stayed with her past that, so people can't directly link the two.
It was five minutes ago.
I also think it could have been the final straw. They both talked a lot about how hard it is to be married.
I think she stayed with him. Who remembers that disastrous interview he did speaking of profiles, speaking of profile pieces that paint people in a bad light. Or Lando Bloom, who last time I checked was a male. He got slammed after he did this is my day in the life profile, and it was like I wake up at dawn and I measure all my sleep apps, and then I play with Lego while I do my body's chanting, and then I do twenty five steps in my skincare routine.
And he got slammed. And did she stand there? Yes, she did.
All you can't back.
Away because it's damaging for you brand. It's not okay.
You know what's hard for Katie If she's in therapy right now and she's talking about, like I did this Blue Origin thing, blah blah blah, and if her therapist was to say, who says it was frivolous and out of touch everyone. Everyone don't play the who says game Katie, it is not a good time to be playing.
I I think she has to say fuck them.
I think it's fucking for her anyway.
Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez are getting married in Venice, Italy this week, and the city's locals are pissed. This is kind of part of a broader protest movement that's happening around Europe about over tourism. I don't know if you've heard.
It's been fortunate for me. I'm about to be a tourist in your.
You might be sprayed with water pistols, I've heard.
You know, last week the Louver closed in Paris because the staff said there's too many people coming, were overwhelmed, were stressed, mental health is suffering, we're not working today.
Why do you think tangent?
But why do you think over tourism is more of an issue now than it was ten years ago?
For example, I don't know.
I would like to blame Instagram ah as part of it. In that for example, at the Louver, everybody wants to go and get their selfie with the Mona Lisa. Do they give a shit about the Mona Lisa or not. Probably not.
It's probably still part of the post COVID boom, I would imagine.
Yeah, and there's also that, so no one could travel for a couple of years, and now everybody can if they've got the disposable income to do it. And you know, flights are cheap in certain parts of the world, and so maybe that. But also back to Jeff and yeah, so.
This is a huge, huge deal. The protests are just one aspect of this whole situation. But if you've been hearing about Lauren Sanchez Jeff Bezos, obviously you'll be familiar with him. He is the third wishest man in the world. He's sixty one years old, and he founded Amazon.
And if you're struggling to place them, remember the Trump inauguration.
Were they there?
Remember when he had all that He had all the tech billionaires sitting in a row, and Lauren wore a very eye catching top. And most of the headlines at the inauguration were actually about Lauren Sanchez's boobs and how Mark Zuckerberg was looking at them, rather than about anything else.
It's true, she's fifty five and their origin story Blue origin is very interesting. Actually, he was previously married to Mackenzie Scott for twenty five years since their divorce, and she got many billions of dollars. She was instrumental when he found out Amazon. She was very much involved in that, and she got a huge payout when they divorced. They had four kids together, and she's gone on to give most of that away. She's an incredible philanthropist. Laurence Sanchez
is a third generation Mexican American. She is a journalist and she was previously married to a very big Hollywood agent guy called Patrick Whitzel. They were married for fourteen years. They had two kids together, and she had another child with an NFL player long term boyfriend of hers before she married Patrick. Fun fact, he's gone on to marry an Australian. But before we get to that, the most interesting thing is they met in twenty sixteen while married
to other people. It was at an Amazon party for the film Manchester by Sea and at the time, Patrick Whitesell had a few of his stars that he represented in that film and both of them were married and their friendship grew from there.
It must have been quite the moment. I love to think about the fireworks.
Fly wonder at weddings like this, when you do the speeches or you do your vows and you.
Talk about whether it's love at first sight.
I wonder how much you have to cloak it when it was a controversial meeting story, or if you just have to own it.
No, Wow, everybody knows. And this is what's very very interesting is that their friendship apparently deepened in twenty eighteen, two years after meeting, when Lauren, who is a licensed helicopter pilot, she started working with Jeff Bezos on aerial filming projects for his space company Blue Origin. So she goes way back with Blue Origin. So they were both kind of essentially having this affair. I think we can clearly say that in twenty nineteen, something really interesting happened.
They both suddenly announced their divorce. Divorce that's from their partners. Yeah, Because what happened is that some very intimate texts and photos on her phone somehow fell into the hands of her brother, who then tried to sell them to the National Enquirer.
Their hands were forced, yesly betrayal.
There was Dick Picks involved, There were nude selfies and one of her very famous texts do you remember this? I love you? A live girl. He called her a live girl, And there's a really great profile of her in the Cut this week where they sort of interview a lot of people who've already known her in this idea of her being a live girl. Everyone that has ever known her says that she's always been a hustler
in a good sense. But she's always incredibly charismatic, very magnetic, the life of the party, lights up, full of energy, wildly ambitious, never take stepbacks badly, just will always come back and be like you know, She's done all sorts of really interesting things in her life. So this idea of a live girl. He then was kind of like a geeky, nerdy Amazon tech billionaire.
He's had a total rebrand.
He glowed up. She's always been quite very glowy. I've watched a lot of videos about her facial transformation. She's got that very hard bodied, big fake boobs, a lot of very noticeable plastic surgery on her face. She's fifty five and he's become really jacked. He shaved his head. So they've both really clearly share this love of what would you call it aesthetics ypt. What do we know?
What do we know about the wedding?
So the wedding is in vanit has discussed it costs at least ten million, we think probably more so. The protests are about the fact that Venice over Tauru said it's going to close it down, blah blah blah. But also it's about the idea of this spec to call the uber rich while the world is burning. There were lots of speculation that Trump might go. I imagine that now he might be too busy. Yeah, but lots of very famous people will be there. Obviously, the Kardashians will
have as strong showing. Chris Jenna will certainly be there, that the Clooney will be there. A lot of very famous, great and good will be there. It's all going to be in vogue because Anna Win Tour. One of the things I find fascinating. If you're wondering why we're telling you about all this a it's going to be everywhere you look by the end of this week, because this wedding lasts for three days and it's going to be on every screen because people want to distract themselves from
the terrible things going on. But one of the reasons. I find them fascinating. My current obsession is like the sort of women in the culture who are looming large, and Sanchez is a really interesting one of those, because it would have been not that long ago that there would have been something kind of shameful gold diggery about this other woman who stole Jeff Bezos away, and they would kind of hide their light under a bushel a bit. But Sanchez and Bezos, as you were just saying me,
have like been massively out and proud with this. And she is a very like archetype of aspiration, like looking the way she looks, which is not fifty five, for example, the way they spend their money, which is incredibly sort of up. There's yachts and there's It's really interesting because I think that's not as long as her we were out luck, we would have thought it wasn't classy, and Anna win Tour certainly would have thought it wasn't classy.
But now she also sees which way the wind is blowing and she's like, we will be having this wedding pan.
Yeah. I think she does still see it as not classy. But Anna win Tour is a survivor and she is very savvy, and she knows that this is the new world order. You know, in Magaworld it's not about quiet luxury. Then you know they have a wide philanthropic arm and she calls herself a philanthropist. She also just wrote a children's book about a fly he goes to space. So I've been watching some interviews with her of trying to get a bit of a sense of her. She doesn't
try how it be anything that she's not. She seems like she'd be a good time.
My only note is I was looking at the protesters thinking, I wonder what specifically they're protesting, And of course it is about Venice in particular has been overrun and historic sites have been damaged by tourists and all that kind of stuff.
And they're basically like.
Which has been happening long before, yes, wedding.
But I thought, if you think that what Jeff Bezos is doing to Venice is bad, wait until you learn what he's been doing to the rest of the planet.
Because he is. And it's interesting that the publicity machine has already started swinging into action. There've been lots of stories being planted about here are all the local artisans that they're working with and this person's made the cake, and this local person's done this, and you know it's going to be phenomenal.
This is that's ironic, given that Jeff Bezos solely destroyed local economies exactly.
Well, it's very interesting this idea of over tourism protests, because tourism is the backbone of the economy of a lot of these big cities. But the locals always say, well, we can't afford to live here anymore. So you know, we have that in our own city, like Baron Bay, for example, there's a lot of protests about over tourism there and about how people are being driven out and can't afford rents anymore. So it's going to be really
interesting to watch. Apparently she's had twenty seven dresses commissioned that are all pretty much cautore I would She's probably gonna wear Oscar dela Rena. That's what she wore to the met gala. There was a bit of a holding nose over who would design it, and also around all the MAGA people, but you know, Milania Trump and all the Magas. But now the designers again have seen the way the wind blows. This is incredibly lucrative for them. Can you imagine how much publicity it's going to get
and how much money is going to be spent. She's also been at dot Chain and Gabana. I'm sure she's spreading the love around. If she's got twenty seven dresses to wear.
Out louders, that's all we've got time for on our Monday show them.
That'sot One more thing, Jesse, I was at your house for dinner last night. You were there. I was having dinner with Luca and my other kids. And did you notice anything different? This morning?
The house was a little messy, so I knew you'd been there.
Did you notice anything different in Luna's room? No?
What did you do?
So? Last night I went upstairs to put it to bed after her bath, and I went to get her pajamas and I tried to open the drawer where the clothes pajamas might be. It was jammed, was so stuffed so couldn't open it. Now that might remember a while ago again, when Jesse was out, I went through Luna's clothes and that was a boundary.
Yeah, yeah, so.
I was a woman possessed last night. I reckon two thirds of the stuff there were two drawers. Luna did it with me. We had a great time. Two thirds of the stuff is now bagged and put away.
Come to my hand.
Yeah, you could actually do my clothes. How you're at it?
That sounds really.
It made me so happy. There were like newborn rashes in there. There were a few things that went in the bit I'm telling you want There are a few things that I I was just like, this is just looks like sadness to me. It has to go.
Out loud as. Please direct your anger.
Connection to that rash. I did mind, I did think about that. I didn't check the rash she out. I only chucked out things that were disgusting. But the things that don't fit her anymore, I've all put away in two huge bags in a cupboard, on top of all the stuff I put away last time.
So I can't remember if I said this last time, I'll speak to you. I saved her newborn singlet from the hospital, and I will say I have not been able to find that stuff.
And if that's singles got bin.
No, she's not sentimental, you see, but.
I know some of us are very sentimental.
Yeah, No, I would have saved that because I would have got. Oh my god, it's so small and cute. It just you probably just haven't looked in that cupboard.
I haven't. I actually don't know what cupboard you're talking about.
I was actually more ruthless this time. Last time, I was really nervous about overstepping boundaries, and then I told you like a week later, and you haven't noticed. So this time I had more confidence.
She also hadn't noticed. Have you noticed that she'd It's going to be.
So much easier to get addressed.
Now you're welcome, Okay, please come over back to where we were out louders. A big thank you to all of you for being with us on this Monday, and of course to our fabulous team for putting the show together.
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