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High out Louders. It's Jesse and I have a question. It's a very important question and I think it's one you can help me with. How do you navigate your friendships? How do you organize your catch ups? And what do you do when there are three or more of you? Which brings me to today's little treat from Hot Pod summer subscriber episode from last year that's all about friendship and the particular threesome, a thrapple if you will, that I share with my fellow out loud hosts Holly and
the other one. We're dropping new subscriber episodes over hot pod summer, so it's a great time to do yourself a favor and start the new year right by becoming a subscriber. Sound fun Well, you can find a link in the show notes if you fancy joining us. Enjoy you got.
A little bit of a dilemma. There quite a dilemma, our louders. We are kicking off with a dilemma for you today. It's one that's quite close to home, actually very relevant to us.
It is I didn't write it this time in there and no vibrators or are there?
Actually maybe a vibrator could be a little gift that make our out louder feel better. Let's see, she writes, I have two best friends. We met at work in our twenties. We are all now in our early forties, and our friendship has survived all kinds of things, kids and breakups and stints living overseas. We see each other as much as we can, although we live in different places and have busy lives. But once a year, every year, we try to go away for a girl's weekend, just
the three of us. We all love it. I think our friendships with each other and together are different but unique. This year, I can't go on the girl's weekend. I've started a new job that requires me to work weekends sometimes, and my family has been through a few things that make it hard for me to get away. I guess I thought when we worked out that there wasn't a date this side of Christmas that we could all do, that we wouldn't go. But I've just been told that
the girls are going just without me. I'm so upset, and I'm also so upset with myself for being upset. I know we're not schoolgirls. I know they love me, but the idea of them going off without me has literally really knocked me around. Am I being unreasonable?
No?
Really?
You don't think she's being no because it's not a girl's trip. Then it's just like date night?
And is that not allowed?
Well? I think if there was a tradition, I mean, Holly, you go on a girl's trip every year that we are all heavily invested in. All the out Louder is your annual Byron girls trip and every time you go, I'm like, has that come around again? And it's a recent situation, right it is.
When I read this, obviously, I was like, ah, because that is my life to a point. So how would you feel. I don't think I would expect them not to go. I don't think I would expect that because I have to miss out on the fund that everyone has to miss.
Out, and I would feel worse if they didn't go. Do you know that feel worse? I would have no issue with this whatsoever. I have friends where we go away for the weekend or we go to a holiday house or whatever. In fact, this happened recently where we are meant to go and visit a friend on the other side of the country. I couldn't go, and my other best mate went and visited him. I'm very competitive in some elements of my life, but when it comes
to friendship, I do not understand. I do not understand how territorial some people get.
I am looking at from the point of view of the two people who go away, right, Yeah, I would not want to go away without the third because the entity is the three.
The entity is not the two, yeah, but the entity is also I mean, I'm speaking for my girl's weekend.
Right.
We all love going because it's a little holiday from our lives and we get to hang out three of us, which is very important, and we've got very good rhythm and dynamic, and we let each other do our things and stuff. But also we all just love going. And so the idea that they wouldn't go and they don't get to do those things and aloud the beach and drink cocktails and go out for dinner and stuff because of me, I would hate that. I think that my friends.
In my circumstance, my friends would probably say, we're not going to go without you, and I would feel a bit bad. But then my friend would probably organize something that we could do, so she'd probably go instead. Can you do this Sunday in blah and we'll all have a lunch?
Can't you do both?
Well, let's have a staycation and we'll stay in a hotel or whatever in the hometown, so that if you need to go home.
Let's broaden this out, right, Let's say, because we're a thrupple, yes, and we all have our individual relationships outside of this podcast. I was thinking about it because you two, you know you have your HRT, you have your perry, do you have your blood leakids? You have at you guys kind of have that. I'm not necessarily in on. I don't need HRT. I have enough estrogen, so in that case, I'm different.
Listen, people are often fascinated by threesome relationship.
Because I was thinking, Oh, I don't have any relationships that are a threesome, but then I remember, this is Bloody one.
Yeah, and people always ask me, and we talked about this in the live show, but obviously not all the out louders were at the live show. One of the questions that came up and they asked me anything was like, Holy, do you ever feel left out? And obviously I was like, no, thank God, these bitches leave me alone. I would hate to go on holiday with them. But that's not actually true. I love it when we travel together and all those things. And the thing is is our dynamic is obviously complicated
by the fact that you're to a family. I think it could be difficult, like and I could feel left out if I didn't have other things going on, or if I was kind of I.
Don't know, if you were a little bit what's the word it's sort of territorial because I've had friends like this and it never works, and maybe this is the reason I've screened them out. It never works when I'm a twin. So it's like, there are some people who need to be they need to have kind of what do you mean, Okay, if someone wants to be my best friend and they're very competitive over friendships.
She's already got one.
They don't like the fact I'm a twin. That is very off putting. It's a big thing. A lot of twin girls will remember from high school that it can be an awkward think about the best friend thing that you get where someone wants you all to themselves. And then I remember a few times they'd start saying mean things about Claire to try and kind of divide us a bit, and I was like, Oh, you don't really understand this friendship, do you. I think that there are some people who need to feel ownership.
Or like I've had some territorial friends, no question, and I'm not territorial. I'm not really territorial in any area. But I was just thinking about the three of us. One of the reasons why it works, though, is because I actually think we're all quite aware of it. So obviously I know that you two are family and see each other all the time on the weekends and go on holiday together. But I don't feel like you're bitching about me when you do.
Yes, I reckon you are.
I don't get the vibe that you are. I don't get the vibe you even really like. Go you know what we should do without loud and stuff when I'm not around, because I think that we actually have quite a respectful bitch to you. Yeah, work dynamic, but maya if you weren't confident that that would be.
How would you feel if Holly and I turned up to work today and I said to Holly how was dinner last night? And Holly said, I loved the second bottle of wine we got onto, I would feel sad.
Well, it's interesting because we're all left out in different ways of this TRESM and I think this is possibly why it works with us. This was meant to be about us because it's equal, like each of us have got unique bonds in different ways. So you and I are family, Jesse, Holly and I are peers.
Don't say it and.
Then you and Holly have the experience of I'm the boss and so as a camaraderie, as a communism, yes, among two of you, So we've all got the different connections. But you're right, Hole, it's like it's an unspoken thing that Jesse and I we might talk about the show sometimes, but not in a way that's like, God, Holly's a cranky bitch, Like.
Yeah, you say that to Holly's face all the time. At the same time, I learn it, but I agree, I reckon that it's a lot to do with what you reckon they're going to be doing and talking about when you're not there.
Back to our original out Louder in her dilemma, what I think is interesting because I was thinking about if there's three of you, right, this happens to me all the time. There's three of us or four of us, whatever, and someone can't come. They canceled their sick, that something's gone wrong. So the question is do you cancel the
whole thing or do you push on without them? Now, I've got a few groups like this, and what we are more likely to do, because we get together rarely, is cancel the whole thing, because if you miss out one, you might not see everyone. For like six months, and.
It's also a very different dynamic.
That's a really good point because if we were having a dinner the three of us and any of us said I'm sick, I can't come, then we'd be like the point, Yeah.
We wouldn't would be so awkward.
What do we talk about?
Like, It's funny because I think that threesomes can be hard, but in other ways I quite like them because they take pressure off that too, you know. Like so my threesome friendship that I go to Byron with every day. Yeah, and it's interesting because myself and Penny, she's sort of my bestie, we're very tight, but we've all known each other for the same amount of time. Karen and Penny are very tight. They see each other all the time,
obviously live close by and everything. I'm tight with Karen, but in a different way, like we don't talk heaps outside the threesome situation. So you know how you kind of you all have your own dynamics, which is what she says. Well, She's like, I think our friendships with each other and together are different but unique. This is hard because you're right. I was like, no, sure they should just go because why should they miss out in
the cocktails? But then you're right, is that maybe they won't all get a chance to go and have fun together.
And you know what it is too, It's that when you're in a three, the dynamic is so established and all of you understand your place and you can feel I don't know if it's jealousy, but they're establishing a dynamic without you. So next time, if it were to happen, is there a dynamic? Are there in jokes stories that you do to closeness that then you come and they're like, we don't need you.
Okay, here's another thing about etiquette, right, So if you're in a situation of more than two people, or even two people, I think if you're ever the person who cancels, the onus is on you to then become the nicole
I either organizer of the next thing. So if this person wanted to do it, what's interesting about our dilemmera is that it wasn't just I couldn't make that date and they went, will fuck you, we can buy She's like, I don't think I can do it indefinitely, And so I can understand why the other two would be like, well, we want to have our fun fun. So then I wonder if she was too late nowt but she should have said, but what if we do blah blah blah
blah blah. Yeah, instead of saying I can't do it, and then you've given everybody the mental load of do we cancel the trip? What are we going to? It always pisses me off when someone says they can't do it, the onus is on them.
She's taught me this the rule. Remember I couldn't come to a dinner because we have an elder's lady for some ye I couldn't come. And then it was like me, it was like, you're supposed to really.
Like, oh shit, it's a slatted bid.
So Maa is better at this than anyone. I know, what should she say? You know how she says I'm upset, but also I'm so upset with myself for being upset. What should she do? Because here's the thing is that when people you love and trust, when you feel like they've upset you somehow. You know, everybody says the mark of a good friendship is honesty. The mark of a good friendship is put it all out their communication.
Don't dumb that on that, and that is hard.
So what should happen now?
Organize something even if you can't go away for a weekend. Organize a lovely afternoon or like a dinner or something with the three of you, just to like show that you're still invested and that you want to.
Push down the anger and the irritation.
And re establish the dynamic of the three of you.
I think we over communicate sometimes. I've had a few friends actually pull me up this particular dynamic. And then one friend moved away, and then I got really lazy with the other friend. I realized that he was the glue that was making all the plans, and he pulled me off up on it once and was like, when was the last time you asked him to hang out? Because you've said no to him three times in a row.
He thinks you're not interested. Like sometimes you need that, you need someone to give you a bit of a wake up call.
It's so true because we fall into our roles. Yeah, because my friend Penny is in Nicole, no surprise that she organizes the girl's weekend books, the flights, books, the restaurants, but like sometimes she has Nicole overload and she's like, not necessarily to us, but to our friend group more broadly, like, what the fuck have you lot been doing? If I didn't organize drinks on Sunday So and So's birthday party, whatever,
would we just never see each other? And I understand how that backs up on her, but also I don't know how to how to do it.
Yeah, I've got another threesome now that I'm thinking about it. Some threesomes also just run their course where one person sort of just lags and keep up, or is in a different life stage or in a different season. And I've got this threesome. It's a historical threesome. And I
keep throwing pebbles. You know that thing about pebbles, where you throw pebbles, which is like a bid for connection, so you might share a link or a photo or a comment about something that's happened in the news or something. And I keep throwing pebbles into this group. And I called the group a funny in joke that we had from twenty years ago because two of them sort of
fell out. But now we've sort of got this group, and neither of them listened to this show, so I can say I'm trying to make fetch happen, like I just can't make I can't jumpstart the group again, the threesomes, So I think I just have to maybe let it go.
You've interviewed people who are actually in thropples. Do you think they have this romantic thruple romantic throw ple?
Okay?
So I asked ron Mangan this when I interviewed her, and no filter. She's got two wives and the two other wives they've been together for like a couple of deacys, and they're older than her. And so I said to her, what about when they go out on date night or when you go out on date night? Is there jealousy? And she goes, no, everyone's stoked to have a night on their own. Yay.
Friendships are weird, aren't they? Because I'm even thinking about some of my closest friendships, Like there's my sister and I and two of our best friends from kindergarten, and when we hang out, literally for the last twenty five plus years, it's the four of us. If one of us couldn't come, it wouldn't happen. I remember a few times someone's been living overseas and we've been like, we don't know if we can there are a.
Couple to me because it's a different thing.
Yeah, it's like this dynamic is what works. It feels like a betrayal if it were. I can't even imagine that one exists without the other. And I wonder if it would enrich the friendship if I actually invested in them individually, or if some friendships only exist in a kind of eCos It.
Also feels like a lot of extra work and what can.
Our catch up to make efficient.
It was something that a word that Rowan taught me called compersian, which is almost the opposite of jealousy. It's about when you love someone and you see them being loved by someone else or loving someone else, it brings you joy, not insecurity or sadness or jealousy.
You have to be evolved for that shit.
Yeah, do you know when I've seen it. I've seen it with children. So like when I see Luna with Jesse or with Luca or with her other grandmother or anyone really like loving that person and that person loving her, I don't feel jealousy. I feel joy, which is interesting because I'm very competitive as well, and I was worried at first when Luny came along, but where I stood on the leaderboard, I know you are, And now I
don't see that anymore. Now I get actual joy. Like one of my favorite things is when I bring Luna home at the end of the time that I've been looking after her is watching the reunion. I love watching people just so excited to see each other and watching how excited Jesse used to see Luna, how excited Luna is to see Jesse.
I froth for that. Have people in your life who always happy to see you?
Do you think it's possible if people are listening and even with this, that threesome friendships work.
I think they can.
I think that can be your Like a lot of people see best friendships as one on one.
I think they do, but I think you probably have to accept the fact that they work, but they're not. Well, I haven't seen it where it's entirely equal, right, Like so often one of you will be a bit closer with the other person or not, or you talk more often or whatever, because like three way phone calls, aren't you know, like I just done so, I think I know, but some people do still talk on a phone mere
I don't like to freak you out. But some people still do do that disgusting and to make threesome's work, you have to be comfortable with that. On Instagram the other week it was Kristin Davis and Cynthia Nixon. So Charlotte and Miranda were on holiday together and I was like, well, there's JP's not there.
And I mean Kutrell she's she doesn't mind at all. But I think Sarah Jessica Parker was sitting by the phone.
Well maybe she was, or maybe because she's the you know, she's off in a play in London and she's doing this and that she's probably like, you go without me, girls, And then this was her, and then it was it was Sarah Jeska Parker.
I got a job where she has to work week.
Yeah, that was in the theater on the West End.
Exactly. Oh my goodness. No, let Charlotte and Miranda hang out. They have a lot of their side characters and they need to bond over that.
If you've gotten a dilemma for us out louder and you like our extraordinary wisdom, what did we sort out there? Oh? That she should organize a lunch.
Been a twenty two second podcast but anyway.
Sarah Jessica Parker, if you have any other dilemmas that you need our help with, you know where to find us. Email out loud at mumamea dot com dot are you and put the word dilemma in the subject line.
How do you navigate your friendship groups? Out Louders can throw somes ever work and if not, let it be known that we are very invested in no all the details. Please, if you've had a falling out, just post in the out louders. It'll get me through summer.
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