Holding Space For My 'Wicked' Hoo-ha

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Mama Mia out loud. Well women are actually talking about On Wednesday, the twenty seventh of November. I'm Holly Waynwright.

I'm Meya Friedman, and I'm holding space. To my co.

Hosts, I'm Jesse Stevens, and I am sitting in my power of defying gravity. That makes sense later I can.

Tell on the show Today, the world's in tears and holding both space and fingernails for one movie musical? So why all the big feelings about Wicked? So a woman has waited six years to be able to call one of the most famous men in the world her rapist, but he's not going to jail, the story of Connor McGregor and the Keita Hand and, in an abrupt change of direction, why puffy is the adjective women are taking to plastic surgeons about their labbya what the actual? But first mea Friedman?

In case you missed it, Donald Trump has a new assistant who runs behind his golf card with a portable printer, shouting out positive things people have said about him on social media.

Can I get one?

I've told my assistant to lift her game, and she's actually quite fit, so I think she could do that. I need to get myself a golf card. I can't we find a portable printer.

The people you have employed over the years, you've not found one person who will chase you with printed positive I think they can't find any.

So.

A New York Times story this week by the impeccably sourced Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swann has reported that thirty three year old Natalie Harp used to be on a far right cable channel as a kind of personality. She's been by his side for a while now, probably a good five or six years, even when he was a bit out in the wilderness before he ran for reelection and won back the presidency. She has a unique role. She acts as an informal information conduit to Trump. She

You know what she is. She's a hype girl. We all have one in our hype girl in our lives. You're doing great, great, Look at all the great Sweden. Don't listen to those nasty people.

I just hate this.

It's a little strange, though, because there are a whole lot of letters, devotional letters that she wrote him that had been seen by his aides and by the New York Times. That raised a few eyebrows because there were lines in there like you are all that matters to me, and I just want to bring you joy. So a few people have been a little bit unnerved about that. And she also is a bit of a social media chaos agent because she helps Trump post his most impulsive thoughts.

She sounds like she's in the right job. Friends. Have you been holding space for defying gravity this week?

It's a lot of words I don't understand.

Are you feeling power in that? Well? Someone who has been holding space as a journalist named Tracy E. Gilchrist, who recently interviewed Cynthia Arrivo and Ariana Grande, the stars of the new film Wicked. This is definitely one of

I didn't know any of that.

Yeah, a lot of people are talking about it.

How all is Wicked the musical?

The musical twenty years?

Yeah, about twenty of those. So it's been around a long time, playing on Broadway, playing in the West End, playing.

Yeah, and it's been to Australia. I think I've seen it once in Australia, but I think it's been here all the months. Or you are someone who's been biting your tongue for the last few weeks because you don't know what an alphaba is. You don't know why everyone is crying. You'd love to hold space. We all love holding space, for defying gravity, but you don't know how that is done.

What space should I hold?

Exactly? The space? And what is defining gravity? The press tour for Wicked has captured worldwide attention, and I've been theorizing that this signals the end of cynicism and a new dawn of total earnestness. But the press tour reached peak press tour with this exchange, and I'd like you to both help me decode it. Here's what happened.

I've seen this week people are taking the lyrics of defying gravity and really holding space with that and feeling power in that.

I didn't know that that was happening. I've seen that.

Yeah, that's really powerful.

That's why I wanted I don't know that was happening.

Is that the one where I've seen the meme where Ariana Grande is holding Cynthia Arrivo's long fake fingernail while they're talking.

He's just grabbing it. She's just holding clutching out for safe Holly, you haven't seen the movie. What do you think it means to hold space for define gravity?

I don't understand it, any of it. Okay, nothing, No, I do. I'm being facetious because I did want to understand because I've seen it everywhere, and everybody's been crying a lot, including people in the Mama Mer office have been crying a lot. And I don't have a connection to Wicked This is the thing about musicals is you're

So it's all like.

Being imposed on our on what's going on in the world. And that made more sense to me. Is that way everyone's crying.

Yes, But the other element is that what's so funny about that interview is that she basically admitted that she she'dn't bungle it. But has anyone ever got halfway through an interview question realize you don't know where you're going and just said something that's weird and then just hoped that they pick up. Yeah, that's what happened, because then Cynthia,

What's confusing is what she's reacting to. So let's just go back a few steps for people who were like, what is going on? Yeah, and why do I need to care? The movie is like a prequel to the Wizard of Oz, and it's about Glinda the Goodwitch and Alpha bar the Wicked Witch who is green in the Wizard of Oz movie, and it's their origin story.

And so the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz, the one that I was really scared of as a kid, is Alpha Bay.

And so what the person did this is a fun fact.

It's like Darth Vader.

It's like how Alphaba went evil?

Yes, yes, So the person who wrote the book in nineteen ninety five, he was very influenced by the James Bolger case in the UK, which was this horrific case where two boys took a little boy and killed him, and that made him question nature versus nurture and the origins of evil. And so he took Alphaba, who was seen as this wicked witch, and went, what would happen if we reappraise this character? We made her the central character and looked at was it a self fulfilling prophecy?

So Ariana Grande, of course, is the world famous pop star. Cynthia Arrivo is a Tony Award winning, Grammy Award winning Musical theater recording artist, actor, but less known. And this movie has been in development for a really long time. Took them two years to film because they filmed part one and part two. So the movie that's out now is just part one.

And it's three hours long.

Yeah, and part two comes out next November. An we'll have another tool now. Jesse and I went to see it I knew nothing about Wicked, like really nothing, but I'm always interested in hype, and I wanted to understand hype. So Jesse and Claire took their cousin Simon to see it. I went with Coco, my daughter, who was seeing it for the second time. She's a massive Wicked fan, so she was one of those people who had felt very emotional. I wanted to look at my phone a little bit

Two hours in, we had to leave and get a.

Snatch a memory of text Holly saying we're still here.

I went to bed and he was still there.

Was long and what's happened is the sort of there's a whole lot of gossip around the making of the movie because that was when Ariana Grandez. It took them two years, but arian and Grande's marriage broke down. She then started a relationship with one of her co stars in the film, Ethan Slater, who plays back from munchkin Land, And that wasn't expected. And he was married at the time and he had a child, or he'd previously separated from his wife and he had a child, so that

I needed that, like the tears explained, because everyone said there was a scene that was making them cry, and yeah, I don't have a heart. So I walked out, going what scene now?

And I don't want to make fun of people exactly loved it. I just want to understand it. So dragged her into the studio after she dried her eyes and we just had a little chat about it so she could explain. And here's a bit of our conversation.

As the Wizard and I which is so early in the musical came on. I just felt uncontrollable. Sobs start in my body, like not a pretty cry, like a one tier, but like your whole net goes round, your face goes red. And I continued for the two hour and forty minutes of the rest of the movie.

And what were you crying about?

This is the thing. It's not the movie itself, although that's really beautiful, but it's the history of it, I think, is why people are getting so emotional.

History isn't that long. It's not like it's from.

Twenty years that's more than half my life.

I guess it is a long time for you. What is it about the history that feels like it's some triumph over adversity. Isn't it just a movie that's been in development for a really long time. And no, it's not the.

Movie that people are crying over. I'm sure some people are. I'm not the kind of person who cries in a movie because you've only spent a few hours with the characters, and while it can be a bit emotional, you get like a bit of a tear in the eye. I think that sobbing has to come from years of build up, and so it's actually from the stage show and people remembering the first time they saw it, or the first time they travel to see it with family, or playing

There are lots of musicals around though I saw La Mis when I was young. I saw Rent. I love a musical, But like when I saw the movie of Lems, I didn't sam uncontrollably well.

I mean, I think that's between you and your musical.

God.

Everyone has a different emotional reaction to something, but I think with Wicked there's a few different layers there. One is that the story is so good, and I think people really relate to that. It is mea don't pull that through.

What's so good about it? Though?

It's a story I think that centers a really complex female friendship in a way that we really don't see, not in theater, but also rarely in movies and TV shows. Also the love story that kind of unexpected enemies to lovers. And also Alphabet is just a character that I think so many people relate to because she is such an outsider. She is green, but more so than that, she is an outsider, she's an underdog. And she doesn't have a makeover and become a different person. She just becomes a

I totally get all that right. I do cry when I watch le Mith. Oh, I cry when I watch Hamilton. Think about all the people you know who have like outsize connections to kind of Disney musical songs and stuff. It's a marriage of nostalgia and the sort of bold strokes storytelling that you get in musicals, like very simplistic good bad. How to push emotional buttons with sounds and

Been looking for the Easter eggs, which is the other element of this is the way you can watch it. Depending on your level of investment in Wicked. Law is variable. But the other reason I think this is different is because of what it says about bullying, an ostracization, like good story, if you've ever felt ostracized, if you've ever felt like you look different or you're marginalized, like an outsider.

Which is what that journalist was saying about. Yeah, everybody's laughing about holding space for defying gravity, but in a moment where you feel like being an outsider is very much a dangerous place to be, this feels validating.

Exactly, And to have someone extend their hand to you who does have some sort of social currency can feel life changing, like it made me feel like a girl.

The cynic in me, though, does want to know how you take a two hour stage musical and turn it into a two part three hour even a time that goes on over two years, because the cynic in me says, for one very simple reason, yes, to make lots and lots and lots and lots of money.

So the thing that I compared this to when Claara and I walked out was Harry Potter. So Harry Potter, remember the last movie they split it into two Harry Potter fans were satisfied by that and wicked fans will be satisfied by this. It felt very Harry Potter in

Scenes, and it's got more backstory for certain characters. But I really admired the commitment of the press tour. I admired the fact that they were always apparently addressed in character. Yep, they pretty much stayed in character it appeared, and they were deeply invested in the experience in a way that I understand if you spent like five years of your life rehearsing, filming making the thing, you'd want to hope that shit.

I'm in awe of how it's worked because this might look on paper like a sure thing, but the success of Wicked was not a sure thing. Remember Cats. It was also by Universe Musicals, a cotal flop. I think West Side Story didn't do what they wanted it to do. This had an enormous budget, it needed to work, and I reckon, you know, they've sat in a room and gone, how can we make this go viral? And the press tour, I think that that's contributed enormously to the success.

They've been working hard for their money, because my god, that tour feels like it's been going on for six months.

There are two things that I took away from it. The first is that we always laugh at things that women and girls enjoy. We always mock them, we always deride them, whether it's you know, fandom and people who go to concerts, whether they were screaming for the Beatles or crying about Taylor Swift or one direction. And the other thing is it's made me see how the downside of it is calling it earnestness, but you could also

I like that, Yeah, yeah, very you know what it is. It's also the full embrace of the theater kid. It's like the theater kid has felt marginalized and ostracized. And I think this is why it struck such a chord with the queer community as well, because it's not cool to try it, because it's not cool to try And when you look at Cynthia and Ariana and the way that they speak to people, it is so theater kid. Like some of us who are not theater kids, because we can't sing to save our lives.

It seems silly.

We just go why is everyone crying? Which I think is still a valid response, and that's why it does feel earnest and I think I think the fan reaction is genuine. I think that these two women are vaguely still character I think that there is something about them that works. They've seen the disaster of the It Ends with Us press tour, Madam Webb was when Dakota Johnson went on tour and basically admitted to hating the movie.

But I think they're fans. I mean, that's what's really clear. And is Arianna was saying, people in my team said I shouldn't have to audition because you know, and I was like, oh no, you don't understand. Everyone has to audition, and everyone did have to audition.

But she's been singing those songs since she was a child, because I've seen the videos. She's literally been singing those songs since she was a child. So it meant a lot. So it wasn't just another gig.

Yeah out loud as.

If you want to listen to us every day of the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a Muma mea subscriber. Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and support us. And a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

Lastly, I wanted to tank my door Freyer, who I'm most grateful for. She has given me so much strength and courage over the last six years throughout this nightmare to keep on pushing forward for justice. I want to show Freyer and every other girl I'm by that you can stand up for yourself if something happens to you, no matter who the person is, and justice will be served.

A thirty five year old Irish hairdresser speaking outside Dublin's High Court after a civil case ruled that she had been sexually and physically assaulted by Connor McGregor, an MMA superstar. Now, if you don't know who he is, a very top line view. He is a boxer and a mixed martial arts fighter whose fame has reached the kind of level

Know that kind of stuff, like a Dwayne the Rock Johnson. I think that's kind of johnsena The Vision. A couple of years ago, he was ranked the highest paid athlete in the world by Forbes, bringing in a reported one hundred and eighty million dollars. He is a major draw card for MMA, and that industry is becoming increasingly successful and important in the manosphere. Bros like Joe Rogan love it. It's a business worth around twelve billion and he is one of the biggest deals within that business.

So is MMA Mixed martial arts? Is it like a more full on form of boxing.

Yes, because you can kick, you can although you can fly at people like it's it's sort of more dynamically.

Boxing rules faster, and it's a big deal.

Nikita Hand, by contrast, was a young single mum in twenty eighteen when she was out at a Christmas party and was invited back to McGregor's hotel to kick on after last drinks. She knew him a little bit in Dublin, her family knew his partner's family, she alleges, and the civil case judge now agrees that at those drinks she rejected his sexual advances that night, but he pinned her to a bed, placed in a chokehold, and assaulted her.

I know, I'm not a lawyer or a judge, and I also understand that different people like different types of sex. But in terms of just basic logic and plausibility, for a woman to have allegedly had consensual sex and be so bruised that she had to go to a hospital, what woman would have consented to that?

Indeed, Nikita has been labeled a fraud, a gold digger, and she even had a gang of masked men break into her home, smash her windows, and stab her boyfriend. Still, over these six years, she chose to keep fighting and the only option left to her was to bring a civil case against McGregor, which she did and she won. And that's where we are. That's what you heard her talking about that at the beginning of this Now what's interesting to me is that we're seeing more and more

Right, and criminal case you go to prison yep, and civil case yet Okay, So.

A criminal case can send a man to jail and a civil case cannot. And also a criminal case has to be brought kind of by the state or the crown, and a civil case is brought by the accuser. So Nakida hand has brought this case against Conor McGregor, right, But in the case of McGregor, who has been accused of sexualisconduct at least three times before, I want to understand if a finding like this has a similar level of impact on his reputation, because if he's had this reputation,

They probably won't. I'm thinking back to the civil case that Amber heard won. Remember she won a civil case against Johnny Depp before the other case that we saw that played out all over TikTok, and that was basically barely a footnote in any of it. Look, it's made an immediate difference for Conor McGregor in that he has been dropped by the whiskey company he co owns, which is a significant financial hit. That's where a lot of

Which is big business. It's worth noting that we might go like, oh, video game that's not like a movie, but actually bigger, there's more money in it. There's a character based on him that looks like him and is him in a game called Hitman, and that's a big deal way that people make money.

Yeah, when I went to IMDb to look at his you know, acting credits and stuff, most of them, apart from Roadhouse, most of them were for video games, including Call of Duty, and so I didn't realize what a big deal that was. That's really interesting.

It also a great Crisis organization in Ireland called for the Whiskey Company to separate themselves from him because to walk in and see Conor McGregor's face everywhere, when he has now been found in a court of law, in this civil court, to you know, have done this to a woman that obviously says something, well, it's a.

Little bit hard to expect any kind of justice for Nikita or any kind of consequence for Connor when the current President of the United States, newly elected, was found liable of the same thing. The thing a civil case in America.

The thing this does do for victims, which I think is signal, is that financial compensation means that if you are suffering from PTSD, if you have likely you can't work. When you're doing a court case like this, you can't. You absolutely can't work. She's trying to raise a daughter on her own. She has suffered enormously.

I think the costs of a cookcase.

Yes, I hope that that is some sort of you know, renumeration for.

Watching interestingly, So she got awarded around the equivalent of four hundred thousand Australian dollars, which obviously is a lot of money, but it's not an enormous amount of money in the scheme of things. And McGregor obviously has continues to deny it and say he's going to appeal. And he said, oh, the modest amount that was given to her shows how the case was a bit you know,

It would be hard to not ask him about this. If you're a credible journalist or media company, the money itself is never going to be enough to make up for you know, Nikita's had a house set on fire.

She said she fared for her life and the life of her family for a long time.

You can only imagine. But what I thought was interesting, which I sort of hadn't registered, is that in a criminal case, that's up to the state, Whereas so much of what the victims of crime will say is that the powerlessness that they feel. And I've had some small experience in this myself, and I would echo that feeling. But when you take a civil action, you've got the power. And the problem is that people will say she's just doing it for the money, because that's the criticism that

Yeah, the fact that she kept going after all of those threats. And the other thing about a civil case is that there are now details on the public record, yeah, that I think we will never forget. There are details in this case that Holly, you didn't read out because they're quite distressing, but they are damning and I can't look at Connor McGregor's face without thinking about them.

His supporters, and you'll see some of these headlines around now are saying the cancelation of Connor McGregor has begun. It's witch hunt, blah blah blah. But actually, in this case, the reputational damage obviously from where I sit, I'm like, bring it on.

Yeah. And he was sitting in the witness stand and some journalists described it as watching his mask slip. You could see moments where the rage came out, where he said horrific things. The same thing happened actually with Mike Tyson, who was found guilty of a criminal case. He was convicted of rape in nineteen ninety two. I think he's an important case study because he wasn't caussed in the hangover. Five months after he got out of prison, he served

Acting again in a funny, lovable role in a family kind of a film.

Recently, he fought Jake Paul in what was one of the most watched I think sporting events of all time. In all of my reading and all of the coverage, you barely even saw. Oh, this man is a convicted rapist that barely barely came up and he has also been accused by his ex wife of violence. Yes, so there are a lot of men you know walking among us. I would say Mike Tyson is the most famous convicted

In case you missed it. Chat GPT is helping you figure out what to buy your family or friends or teacher at school for Christmas. If you don't know what to get someone as a Christmas gift. I always find this so hard, and the default of a cented candle just doesn't cut it. After this many years of scented candles, no one wants I love.

But only if they're fancy, don't check on.

I always end up googling lists and I end up on some website that probably has affiliate links that goes, you should buy your husband a beard oil, and I'm like, that's beard oil, a beard oil, and I'm like, this isn't right. So chat GPT I feel like could be a step up.

Also because gifts I love language, I don't care about them. I don't like buying gifts for people. I prefer buying gifts and myself, and you don't need chat GPT for that. But anyway, what people are doing is going to chat GPT, which you can download as an app, and.

You can also use it just as a website, which I do.

So you need to describe what the person is like, maybe what they're interested in. I also put in price point for you too, so.

The prompt was a sorry point.

The prompts that I.

Did for you both under twenty dollars, well, that was awkward, wasn't it.

So I said, what should I buy for Christmas for my female friend who is fifty three, lives in regional New South Wales and loves gardening. I want to spend less than one hundred dollars fifty two. I'm sorry no, but by Christmas. Yeah, they will be correct. And some of the things that it suggested, like some of them were fairly predictable. Gave me maybe twenty ideas right with subheadings, Yeah,

I'm smarter than you because what I typed in is my prompt was what should I buy Holly Wainwright?

That's what I did. I said, what should I buy?

Beer?

Freedman, I watched I buy Holly wayIn Wright and GPT know who we are? Well, I thought they did, but it said. Holly Wainwright is a well known Australian author and podcast host, particularly recognized for her work with Muma Maya and her books including The Mummy Bloggers and I Give My Mummy a B plus.

This is why we can't entirely trust the robots.

That's one of lessons in the world. Now it's just a little bit wrong because GPT is really good, but not really really good.

It's just to be clear. That book's called I Give My Marriage a Year, but it gave me some really good idea.

Plus, that's my next book.

It sounds really interesting, like you've got a subpar money. Okay, so a custom weather journal I think you wouldn't mind it, a writer's retreat voucher, oh yeah, luxury skin cassette, Yes, literary themed home decoor, or a framed print with a quote from one of her favorite authors. It also said, rather specifically on a link.

Or actually, that I would be into that.

It's funny if she's a basic fifty two year old. I had been exactly the same.

I said what should I buy mere Freedman, and they gave me all me as credentials. I didn't really check to see if they were right. They say things like, because Mia is a busy professional mother, she would enjoy a chance to unwind. I was like, this is where chat GPT doesn't know mea at all, because he thinks she should have a wellness retreat or a spa day. And they also think that you should have tickets to

I'm like, she would have liked that. That would be bad. Guys, you should buy me that you might be able to get mates rates. That was interesting was my prompts for you, Jesse, because I sat there for a really long time. I started with gift ideas for my thirty three year old female friend, and then I was thinking of what your hobbies were? Can I sat there for so much and

Think about you, Yeah, how old is she? Sixteen months? Didn't come up with anything good? What are you getting me?

A true crime puzzle? And then there's a sub section true crime themed candle Who knew there were such things?

Oh wow, murder candles.

With fun names like forensic files and Chill Jesus. And then there was a section on for you and Luna matching pajamas, which I thought was.

H you got that for us last year you got a snatching pajamas.

Okay.

Then there's like relaxation and fun for mum, A cozy blanket, a soft throw for smuggling up during true crime binge s Oh my gosh. Okay, we don't need chutching to tell us this stuff.

I wrote in what do I get my mother in law?

For me?

It suggested customized jewelry, A customized calendar with pictures of the family. So January is my faith, my faith, but this is my favorite.

There's lots of pitches of Jesse, not lunar, just Jesse.

This was my favorite. A memory jar. Fill a jar with notes about things you appreciate about her, memorable moments. Words, you're a bitch, the other time you're a bit.

That time you came and throughout all my daughter's clothes. Yeah, at that time you got a fringe when I was in labor to pull focus.

We have actually got one serious gift suggestion for all of you out louders.

Because chatjpt actually thinks the subscription is a really good gift. Did it came up? I think for all of us and for Black Friday, Mumma Maya is giving you the biggest discount we've ever offered on a subscription. Right now, you can get thirty three dollars off a yearly subscription, bringing the whole thing down to just thirty six dollars for a year. This means full access to all the stories the shows, including to Mumma mea out Loud bonus segments a week. But this deal is not forever, so

We are actually all chat GPT assistance aside putting together a Muma Mea Out Loud gift guide, and it is going to be in the newsletter, yet another reason to sign up if you haven't early access to the tour and also a gift guide. There'll be a link in the show notes for how to do that.

Maybe Eura.

Then coming off sign.

Hold onto your labbier friends because someone wants to inject it with filler stop it, or you can hold onto a friends LaBier if you prefer.

Let's just say is lip filler. Yes, we've been getting an alley your other lips kind.

I learned all about this this week. It's called labbier puffing, and it is. I don't want to say it's a beauty trend because I don't only give it that power. It's a thing that some people are doing.

It's on the rise. I looked into this because you know how I feel about giving women in securities hy securities. But then I was looking at it and it originated in kind of the early two thousands, and it is on the rise. And there's a reason. They think it's why.

Do we need our labia to be puffy?

Well, let me first tell you what labbier puff is. They call it a non surgical I think that means there's no cutting with a scalpel. But it's an injection of filler, as you say, into the labbia labia majora. And the reason for it is to plump and smooth the outer labbia labia majora, to give it a more youthful and volution appearance, which is a relief, frankly, because my biggest concern in this year of our Lord twenty twenty four has been my deflated labia.

I thought, so just looking a bit sad and saggy and sort it out.

Well, Apparently the reason that this is on the rise is because a generation of women got all their hair laysered off, and now they are looking in the mirror and they can see it. Whereas our grandmothers, our great grandmothers, they didn't.

Know, No, they had a bush. It was a bushy.

I saw someone describe it as like a deflated sock, Like that's what they felt like their labbia.

Couple of fish fingers.

Yeah, looked like that. They were just kind of dangling in the wind because they were saying that collagen, our collagen and our ELASTI didn't whatever, all the things we're trying to do with our face to try and keep the collagen going, you also lose it from your little labia. And to be clear, labbia maturer, because that would be weird. We're outer lips.

I was confused because I thought it was the inner bits. Yeah, I know more about this than I probably did a couple of weeks ago, because what land on my desk over the last few days is a coffee table book called Flip Through My Flaps.

I love this book. A meeting that we go in we just look at it and go look.

At out loud as Mama Maya is not a normal workplace. We do in meetings we flip through a coffee table book of close up photos of Volvers by Volver photographer Ellie Sedgwick, who intued on No Filter a little while ago. When she was growing up, she felt insecure about her labya because she was, as she says, an outi because there are outis and innies. And her doctor was like, let me see, and he's like, there's nothing wrong with you.

No wonder, we're all so weird. I want to shout out the fact that recently I've discovered on some dark corner of foxtail. Actually it's not that dark, it's quite bright. A show called Naked Attraction. Have you ever seen that?

I have watched bits and pieces.

It's a British dating show where you have three four naked people. They do all genders, naked people standing behind a screen that's get slowly lifted, so it's like, let's look at Betty's lower half and it lifts up to her waist and then it closes in really tight on Betty's vagina, and the person who's.

Chosen vagina labya for all of.

It, Yeah, closes up really tight.

Not actually your correct because not inside her labia revolva. So far, they haven't gone with the internal camera that could be coming. And then they ask the person who's picking, the man or woman who's picking, like do you think that's a good looking to think?

That's oh my god?

And the person who's picking goes like, yeah, I like that one. They do the same with men, like they do the same with penises. And so I'm sitting there watching this show. I don't know why. When I was away with my friends and we found ourselves watching it and I started watching it and I was like, this

And that's the reality, right, Like when you.

All the labbya look different. Yeah, this puffy vagina business, this puffy labbier business, is trying to make us all conform, and my vagina will not come hob.

It will aide.

I don't think there's anything else to say anything today. That was a big show and a very big thank you to all of you for being here with us out louders and to our team who have to listen to us talking.

Well, if out loud as one a little bit more from us. Yesterday, Holly and I went behind me as back and we had a private conversation.

Last time you did that, I cried, Yes, I promise you won't cry well.

One of the questions was whether we bitch about you behind your back, and we answered honestly.

Answered honestly. There were other ones like if we did have all the money and resources in the world, would we have all the plastic surgery?

We got off that.

We got asked why there are some Internet stories that we choose not to weigh in on. We talked about that.

One particular one, and we talked about our content decisions. There is a link in our show notes bye bye bye shout out to any Mum and me a subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want to support us, subscribing to MM and MIA is the very best way to do so. There's a link in the episode to say which

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