You're listening to I'm Ama Mia podcast.
Hello and welcome.
To what women are actually talking about on Monday Friday.
So I forgot to say the name of Saturday.
I think maybe this is a Friday problem. Hello, and welcome to Mom and Mia out loud. It's what women are actually talking about on Friday, the twenty third of February January.
Wow, can we go home now? I'm done?
What's wrong with me? It's been a week. I've all distracted. Anyway, I'm Holly way By. I got that bit allegedly.
Allegedly, I'm and I'm Jesse Stevens.
And here's what's on our agenda for today for our Friday show. Maybe you've recovered from watching Heated Rivalry. Maybe you're about to dive in whatever. It's a global phenom. It has been now for a good month or so. And em has a theory about why straight women are obsessed with queer romance.
And if you haven't watched it, I'm here and hold your hand.
You don't need to have watched it.
You definitely don't need to have watched it because it's bigger than those two hockey players.
Plus there are new way friends are hanging out now.
It doesn't involve wine. It does involve the taxes.
It can it always can sound moveing and am I venting too much? The answer is definitely. But does that make me a bad friend because according to some experts, yes, yes.
But first, in case you missed it, two besties named Matt Damon and Beneffleck might have heard of them. I'm loving seeing them on the press sir as a bring back memories. It doesn't also like individually they both can be a little gen X problematic e but together they're unstoppable.
No, Matt Damon has a free pass for me. They're so clever and they're so wise, and they're so good at what they do. They're true artists. They've made some great stuff.
I think that every time Ben marries j Lo, he's just gone through a period where him and Matt didn't talk very much.
Yeah.
Yeah, and you know Matt's just like Ben. Yeah, and then a picture like consoling j Loo at the back of like some truck.
Yes, Matt is very very good for Ben. And I feel like Matt's wife is a bit every time Ben's name comes up, she's like, here we go again, Here we go.
Again anyway. Sorry, when we digressed pretty hard there on, Mat and Ben did we we did? We did.
But they've released because I feel like they love doing stuff together.
Yes, we know.
They released a new movie called The Rip. It is currently on Netflix, and they've been doing a bit of a press tour. They recently went on Joe Rogan's podcast and they were talking about.
See what I mean about slightly gen X problematic?
He sometimes did they both go on or was it just Matt?
It was just Matt, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it was Ben, both of them, both of them.
Really okay, yes, yes, yes, I would like to listen to that.
If you've got to spare four hours anyway. Anyway, so they.
Were talking regardless of let's pretend Joe Rogans okay, okay, it's just the two of them.
He's there like us.
Matt was talking about how releasing a movie on streaming services like Netflix is very different to releasing movies and cinemas now, and it's all about attention. He was saying that there are some behind the scenes conversations that happen with streaming services where they asked to do a big act in the beginning of a movie. To capture people's attention straight away, where usually they'll.
Do it a bit later in the movie.
And they've also been asked to include in the dialogue talk about the plot points within the dialogue three to four times throughout the whole movie to account for people who look at their phones while watching.
So like a little recap.
Yeah, so reality TV has always done this right, Like the thing that means I cannot watch it is I'll be watching the Kardashians or whatever, and it'll be like this happens, and then it'll be after the break, this is gonna happen, and then it come back after the breaking, it's like this happened, and that's going to happen.
But like they're constant and then it gives you a flashback. It references anything. There is no assumed knowledge at any point in time, and.
It's constant orienting the audience all the time. And now drama does it too, exactly.
So what I'm assuming happens is like I haven't watched the rip, don't know anything about it, but I'm assuming it's like Matt and Ben, and Ben's like, Matt, we have to go save my family. And then like there's twenty minutes, and then Matt's like, don't forget Ben, we have to save your family. And then that happens another three or four times.
Exactly, and then Ben is crying subtly. But then Matt has to be like, Ben, are you crying? Like he has to sign post that and just let everyone on the phone.
If he's crying, And then we're like, wait, he's crying.
He's crying. That's interesting.
It's like that plot narrative about Chekhov's gone. If there's a gun in a show, you know that at some point the gun's going to be used, and so you're like, you've got a clue in your head off, but remember there's that gun. But in this version of that, every five minutes someone has to say, but.
Remember the gun.
Yeah, it's because of second screens.
Right exactly.
And to that, I say, make movies more interesting.
Yes, well, I find this thing about so it used to be the drama had to happen about fifteen minutes in right, or we know that. In novels, the rule is they call it the sort of the end of the beginning, the end of the first third. They go, make the drama happen. Has been the conventional thinking. But our attention spans are so shot, and there are so many other books you can pick up, so many TV shows you could watch. There's a TikTok that will give
you some entertainment in twelve seconds. That now, a lot of the advice is, and a lot of the notes that people get is it needs to be immediate. That first scene needs to get you. So you think about like your dead bodies at the beginning, Yes, what that costs you? So the example, I remember doing a course about it and the Exorcist, great great movie. There's a device called various similitude, which is where you establish who the characters are and the ordinariness of their lives, and
it makes everyone feel like that can't be me. That could be Oh, yes, we're just going to school, We're just hanging out with mum, having some dinner, and then boom, you put the drama in and suddenly she's possessed by the devil and you're way more invested. But how many times do we all sit down now and go, I'm going to give this five minutes, and if I'm not in, then I'm going to go and watch something else on my list.
Look, it's sad that you've just brought up books about that, because when I was at a writing thing recently, they're saying, how that's why, and I've done this. I've done this in at least one book, maybe two. That's why prologues are so big now, right. The lazy explanation for what a prologue is is take the most interesting, action packed bit of the book, put it at the beginning, then go back to the beginning. If you know that that happens,
you'll see it everywhere. And now TV is similar. We're going to talk about heated rivalry in a minute, but on the rest of his entertainment, Marina Hyde was saying, one of the reasons that show works so well for like a second screening audience and every kind of audience is that from the first shot, the first second of
the first scene, you know exactly what it's about. There's no like, here's this guy going about his life like you say, Jesse, and here's this guy going about his life and maybe at some point they're going to bump into each other and chemistry, it's like, no. From the first shot is the two of them looking at each other, and it's.
Like, oh, it's on.
And interestingly, when they stay second screen, the second screen isn't your phone. Your phone is a first screen. So your phone is the first screen that you're looking at, that you're scrolling that you're apparently sixty to ninety percent of viewers they know are doing it. In which case that Netflix show that maybe wants to be prestige or wants to present some compelling, nuanced ideas, that needs to accept its position as a second screen or not.
I think this is a tale of two different kinds of stories, right, because the flip side of this is a show like Stranger Things, which has obsessed the world for the summer before the hockey players came away. Actually
with their bugs is the opposite, Right. It's got so much plot, and it's complicated plot, and it's weird plot, and there's law, and there's fifteen different levels, and it allows the audience to get fully invested and become obsessed with theories and share their fan theories forever.
There are lots of shows like that, right.
Ben gave the example of adolescents on Netflix as well.
It doesn't do that.
Yes, well that's very different too, and that's a different kind of prestige. It's kind of like TV's either one of two things. It's either very simplistic, tell me the plot five times, or it's this is a mystery for you to solve and have twenty five theory with your friends about and make millions of tiktoks about and this thing and that thing and maybe that happened. And it's kind of like, choose your adventure of those two things.
Does that make us lazier? Though? Although I must say when I was watching Severance, I definitely had phone down.
I don't second screen if it's something I've chosen to watch.
I really try not to and I need to have my phone in another room like I can't have it in.
But does that like your problem or is it the people who are making the movies problem? Because I say I shouldn't feel like I need to touch my phone, Like when I watched Sinners, for example, I forgot my phone even existed.
I don't know.
I think the show can be so brilliant, but if we have access to a phone, if we can touch it, whether it's notification, whatever, we also don't have any tolerance for not understanding something. So if it's a reference to or we go where's the active from? And then someone goes looks it up or whatever. Then you're lost.
It's the accessory to the show. You're like, I've got to google that.
What big is?
Where is Greenland so interesting? So we're staying on TV for a minute. It took me a moment to get onto Heated Rivalry, And as Jesse says, if you're not on the bandwagon, if you're sick of hearing about it, don't worry because that's not really what.
We're talking about. And if you are obsessed.
Emma and I did a subs episode last week Yes with Mia where they in particular explained a lot of the behind the scenes stuff to me and all that stuff, that's not really what we're talking about. This is about something a bit broader. In that subset, em brought something up to me that now I'm seeing everywhere. You're very very it's just very clever our Urnham. It's not just
about Heated Rivalry. But just to give you an idea of the scale of the phenomen of that show, it was made pretty independent show, lots of If you watch the credits at the end, there's like a million different Canadian film companies involved. They didn't know it was going
to be so huge. It's a very low budget, and they should have known it was going to be so huge because it's based on a very successful book series, and that book series is part of a whole genre of queer tilting romance that is very squarely marketed at and consumed by straight women, young women. Book Talks got a lot to do with this, but also older women. We talked on the show about romance genres of last year and how that's a genre of publishing that's still
going crazy. And this is a very established, like male to male, queer stories being consumed by straight women are a very big and well known phenomena. Apparently about eighty percent of the people who buy those books are women, and of that eighty sixty percent of them identify as straight, with the others identifying as like queerbye gay. But there's a very clear marketing push towards straight women on these books. So one of the things that's really interesting.
About this is that why is that? And there's a good.
Theory which m brought up, which is that watching two men, if you're a straight woman, watching two men fall in love have a messy relationship, have some sex, break up, get back together, whatever is freeing because you have a holiday from putting yourself in the story.
That's what you said, right, Yeah, I feel like when we watch like romance movies or TV shows and it's a man and a woman, you automatically insert yourself in the women's shoes and you firstly nitpick her. You're like, oh, she's such a pick me. She wouldn't do this, Why is she doing this? Why is she wearing Why is she wearing that? When you put yourself in her shoes in another way by going oh, she shouldn't accept that. For him, why is she doing that? Why is she
sending him nudes? What's going on? And then when I watched Heated Rivalry, I didn't feel any of that because my self couldn't be in that physically, So I was just sitting back and going, this is just such a nice show.
A name for it, yeah, Oh, it's called Escaping the heroin Bird.
I love that.
So there's a whole established theory about this, because, as you say, is that a certain amount of baggage comes with watching a straight relationship, especially now when dating is really complicated and the politics of dating is very front and center. A classic example of this might be, for example, if you have been watching Heated Rivalry. In the second episode, the hot Russian basically treats the other guy in a way that if that was a woman, we would not
accept it. He ghosts him, he nags him, you know, he's kind of dismissive and rude to him.
He has sex with him and not even kiss him.
And tells him to get out straight afterwards, and those things. If that was a male female romance on mainstream TV, we would be like, the culture would be like, get out, girl, you deserve better than that. And I don't know that now we would accept that as an obstacle to true love in a way that is presented here.
Yeah, I think that the dynamics are different, not that that's not problematic or not that power doesn't exist in queer love stories, because it does, but the traditional gender dynamics that we project don't exist so much. And whether it's movies or television or books, when there's a heterosexual a man a woman who are having sex, there's generally speaking a subject and an object, and the woman is nearly always the object. Even the way that she's filmed.
There is this Do you think that's still true with all the female gayzy sex stuff we watch these days that you're Bridgeton's.
And I think it's so firmly entrenched that ninety five percent of the time that's what it is. And then I also think it's so socialized that women do it automatically. So there's this phenomenon that's been written lots about where women in real life who are having sex almost watch themselves from above, and they watch what they look like and how they sound, and that's how they've internalized how sex should be. That it's something that's acted upon them
by a man. He is the subject. It's all about his pleasure, and she is the object in it, like performing, Yeah, exactly performing. And this is why I remember writing something years ago about all this data came out of Pornhub or something about man on men sex and lesbian porn, like and how it was consumed overwhelmingly by straight women. Why do so many straight women watch gay porn and lesbian porn? So why is it that they're not watching
porn that would reflect their lived experience. They're actually trying to seek out something that's different to what they and part of it might be that it's a fantasy, or part of it might be by curiosity or whatever it is. But a lot of the studies actually found firstly, they don't and I think that we've we've probably all seen this in television or whatever where you go all that looks like it hurts. I've had an experience like that
and it's making me feel really uncomfortable or whatever. This is just more simply about pleasure in a way that women find very liberating. I think.
I think that's true.
But I also think it's beyond the sex, like I think in Heated Rivalry, even though it's very famous for its sex scenes, I think it's also about the relationship dynamics.
And you're right, Jesse, in what you just pointed out, there's definitely something difficult here about the idea that in some ways, and there's lots of commentary out there about this, that in some ways this kind of objectifies or patronizes gay relationships, simplifies them them and also that straight women or straight seeming women who are actually writing these books and everything, like hmm, just a little bit of you know, controversy there about them hovering up all those dollars. But
also I think that it's beyond the sex. I think it's about the romance. Like we know how complicated dating is and the politics of dating are now, and we always over always over relate to female protagonists. I mean as a writer, I know this. One of my books in particular, like the female protagonists got so much shit from other women through me, like say, but she does this, and she does that, and she shouldn't have done that, and she cheated and she shouldn't have cheated, and that.
We just don't put on male protagonists, or we do it differently. And it's funny because as you get older, like I don't relate to when I see young hot people having sex, I don't or falling in love, I'm not really relating because now that's like apples and oranges in a way. But I think that it's very hard not to when you're in that world.
But also when we're looking at romance novels and movies about men and women, and I think the author and the film creator automatically want you to relate to the woman because that's who they're marketing towards.
And then they're trying to.
Make the guy in it to be the most appealing guy ever. Like when we talk about Emily Henry and her books, like she uses the most best man that you could ever dream of, because like you want that character to get with him, and.
Think about the discourse around Nobody wants this a massive smash exactly where everybody's like, great, non toxic relationship, wonderful boyfriend, he does all the things right, he calls her, he does all the things, and that's all great, but it's not obstacles in a sexy romance.
Yes, and because there's still two of them and they're both the main characters, the woman is always a bit more of the main character. Wasn't heated rivalry. You're still appealing to women, but you have two men, so you're allowing them to both be main characters in their own right. So you're able to follow both of their storylines as independent people while they're also together.
And it's not overlaid with complicated feminist politics, the idea that we're so sensitive to a woman who's desperate to find love or like acts in a way that's like damsel in distress. There are all these tropes that have been overused in cliches and there's just something so fresh about having this on screen where you can put all of that aside and just take your hat off.
He can leave it at the door.
Yeah, because in this story Ilia the Russian hockey player, he is a textbook bad boy really, like he's unavailable, serious, he's all the things that a textbook bad boy hero would be in a traditional romance. But somehow that has very much fallen out of favor. God knows what people are going to think about Wuthering Heights with that, with that in mine, but that has very much fallen out of favor now, and this kind of just allows you to go.
Ah.
One of the reasons I think that women over relate so much to characters and get so upset with them, Like can't just let them live?
Do you know what I mean?
Just can't let your character just do whatever is because we're never allowed to you know what I mean, Like, we're not allowed to just live and do whatever without judgment. We've been brought up since day dot with that, So we're like, well, why should she be able to just behave that way?
You know, we're trying.
Know that might not be a conscious thought, but it's a subconscious thought that We're like, well, we can't just let her live like, That's not how it works.
You're a woman in the world.
Out Louders in a moment, are you venting too much?
Hey, out louders, it's Mia remember me. I hope you do. It's been so fun for those of you who are already subscribers being back in your ears twice a week on our subscriber episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. This week, on Tuesday, I did an emergency meeting with Holly and Jesse to unpack the latest becon Family Drama.
It was epic.
And then yesterday in Thursday's episode, I learned what Jesse and Holly did over summer and what I did over summer. Told them we had very very different summers. Have a listen, There's a link in the show notes, and thank you for subscribing.
If you already do out loud as. We have got a listener dilemma and we need your collective wisdom to help us and our partners UI solve it. So here it is friends you ready. Yeah, My husband and I have decided to move to the Gold Coast, Lovely in the middle of the year with our two daughters aged three and five. We currently live in Sydney and both work full time and we're finding it a lot to make ends meet, so the decision is part financial.
Part lifestyle.
We're really excited about our decision and looking forward to sharing the news with our family. But my husband works for his family business and while it's been an amazing opportunity, it's time for him to his own thing.
Is your husband, Brooklyn Beckham.
We know his parents are not going to be happy and will pressure us to stay. They'll make us feel guilty about leaving the business and also about not being able to see their grandkids as often. We know it's from place of love, but we just don't want the joy to be taken out of our decision. How do we tackle this? My husband is saying we should have the conversation together. However, I don't work for the family business, so I think it's better if he has the conversation with his family first.
Smart move.
It's a really hard one, but we just want them to be happy for us. My question is what do you do next?
Oh, I've got an answer to this. There are parts of this question that I think reveal that you are trying to control how his parents are going to feel about it. And I got the best advice once. I was like, but if I say that, they're going to get upset, and someone said to me, what you're doing is manipulative, which is you're trying to control their response, which is none of your business and not your responsibility. Let them let them. I probably think it's a big thing.
It's a family decision. If your husband would love you sitting next to him when he tells them, that's probably a mine.
But it's a business.
It's a business.
But mom and me, and I bring my mum in guys, me and my mom would like.
To let you know.
I don't know.
I reckon that if you're telling your in laws, we're moving into state, and that's a big thing, and there's going to be grief, and there's going to be the business, I feel is also a distraction. I reckon that it's bigger than that. But you need to work out exactly what you're going to say, and then you've got to accept their response because they're allowed to be really upset, they're allowed to be mad, they're allowed to yell, they're allowed to do whatever they want.
But it's kind of none of your business.
And also you are allowed to move to the Gold Coast. Yeah, so that's our advice. I say go go go out loud as what would you do next? Share your thoughts in the mama Mia out loud Facebook group.
Also, if you have a.
Dilemma, send it to us at out loud at mamamea dot com dot au.
We would love to help you out.
I think I've probably reached my friends venting threshold for this year, and it's barely past mid January.
I feel like you get a past event.
She's pregnant with twins, she's gotlations.
There's a lot going on. But I'm interested in your opinion because this article made me a bit worried about my venting. Earlier this month, I came across a story in the Atlantic that asked if venting, which was once treated as a basic expression of closeness, has it been rebranded as risky and even impolite? Is it now something that we see as like quite rude to sit there at a dinner table and take up space just winging.
Julie Beck cites research that has shown that venting doesn't actually reduce anger, it fuels it and to be transparent about what venting. It's giving free expression to strong emotions,
particularly anger or frustration. So Mel Robbins, who we referred to just before, she says venting as a trap, hence why you should just let them, whereas some experts, like a social psychologists they speak to in this story says venting helps people feel connected, validated, and ultimately more energized to deal with the problem at hand.
So say I'm venting to my friends about work or whatever, and I'm like really upset about something that seems quite small, and they encourage my venting that I'm encouraged to stay in that angry space. Is that what like the male robbins Is of the world are worried about rather that.
Yes, yeah, it just gets more and more heated.
Yeah.
So on the one hand, you've got people saying you're bringing a negative energy, and in fact there's something it's like almost co venting, where you kind of bring that out in other people and it becomes this negative thing they.
Go yeah yeah, and break up with your boyfriend.
Hey yeah yeah. And then on the other hand, you've got this has all come from kind of a Sigmund Freud background. Of get it.
Off your chest. We've all had ma get off your chest.
There's catharsis in just saying it better out and then better out than it, all of those things. It's releasing an internal pressure cooker where we hear that this is meant to be good for us. So the question is should friendship be a haven from mess or a safe space for it? Should friends support or avoid burdening one another? And what actually do your friends owe you?
Am I love venting. I love venting so much. If I have a dinner with friends, I'm like so excited. Sometimes I write dot points all the things I want to hit because I don't want to miss out. Because there's also certain friendships like you can vent for certain things about Like if I want to vent about my friend's boyfriend, I can't vent about it to her. I have to vent about it to some other people. If I'm being strategic about work, I can't vent to you guys,
I have to vent to my other friends. I think it's such a nice outlet. And also too many rules on friendships. I'm getting really really confused now because now I can't talk about my dating life because I don't pass the Bechdel test. That's true, and then I can't talk about work because I'm centering my work too much. And now I'm scared that we're all just going to end up having friendships like men.
So true, that's the saddest story.
And that's true because if you're never allowed to say anything real, even if you know you're being silly, you know, then what do you talk about?
Exactly?
Like I can only I mean, actually I would talk about Brooklyn, assuming that not everybody wants to the only.
Reason we can talk about Brooklyn Beckham it's because the man had the guts to vents.
Oh my god, invented? Did he have a vent?
The thing is, I think, what are we going to talk about? And you're right, we would go where the men go, which is we talk about sport, we talk about and I hate, like, let's talk about real estate schools and I want to talk about real things and that often involve some inventing. However, don't tell me that you have never had a friend who over vents all the time.
Come on, okay, so there are rules, and I agree with you, Holly, I reckon, there's nothing worse. And asking how someone's going and they're like, work's great, this is great, this is great, and it's like, maybe it is, but I don't really believe, like, yeah, I'm trying to find a crack, Like that's where the interesting.
So you're trying to find a crack or a way in.
A way in a way in where there's some vulnerability. I believe that that's where connection is found. But I agree with you. So the rules of venting are we need character development, we need new plot points. What I don't like is rumination. So the circular venting. So I had a friend the other night who kept apologizing for venting, and we all went, no, no, no, we're actually quite
enjoying this. Your work venting is interesting to us. We're not emotionally invested in the loss is a minor character in my life exactly, And I'm enjoying all of this information. Right, this is a great Netflix show. I'll watch episode two. But what I don't want is to then have you know, ten instances where it's exactly the same point and you kind kind of go, oh, oh, we've had this conversation.
I'm fine for the complaining about work to continue, but it's like you want some agency or some change otherwise, I think it just feels repetitive.
And boring, right, yeah. Absolutely.
My other thing is is that I think because personally, like, there are people in my life I vent to but I'm quite tight about that, and I think they call this repression. If there's things that are really upsetting me, I don't want to talk about it person So they'll be like, how's how are your parents doing whatever.
I'll be like, I don't want to talk about it, and that's I don't. I really don't.
But I think that venting, if you have like a like, you can almost put parameters around it, so you go, I'm venting. I have to trust my circle to know that everything I say in this vent isn't necessarily true.
It's actually not indicative of how I feel in one hour exactly, and.
I may do not hold this vent against me next week when I say that the you know that my colleague Jesse is the loveliest person in the world, and they go, but last week you said she was a bitch, and I'll be like, I was, So I think he needs some signals there, and I never do that. You need some signals there where you're like, we're entering vent valley will come out the other side. But while we're in here safe space.
I had an incidence recently where I was at Christmas drinks and you know, everyone's happy and blah blah blah. And I got there and I started talking to a friend who I really like, and she was like, how are you going? And in that moment, I went, all right, you got two choices. You either go I'm going really well hanging or bless or tell her I'm actually in a lot of paint, like I'm in a lot of pain. I just walked up a hill anyway, and I just went for the second option. I just thought, fuck it,
I'm going to do it. It's just her and I here, I reckon. I'm a good enough reader to know if she's finding this conversation boring. She then started telling me about this chronic pain condition she had I had no idea about, and it ended up in her venting like her going, oh my goodness, I am like, I feel as though my body's falling apart. I feel as though
I have no control blah blah blah. And it was one of the most insightful, fruitful conversations I had over the whole break where she helped me put words around how I was feeling. I felt deeply connected to her. She clearly felt like she couldn't sit and you just don't know what's happening for other people, and opening that crack up a little bit meant that we could be honest and access this other level of intimacy and vulnerability that I think would have been missing otherwise.
But do you also think by talking about like stuff as deep as that, you're also opening the door for them to also help.
You if yeah, so yeah?
Because I feel like when you have those kind of conversations, then you go home and then they might send you a link to a physio yeah, or something like that. I think the venting that get frustrated by is if it's like the same problem happening over and over again, and that person's not doing anything to help them. And I remember I had a friend who was venting about work like so much like every time we hung out so much. She wasn't doing anything. It was just like
an outlet that she needed. It got to the point where I would dread seeing her like because I knew it would be a drain. And then one day I think I just sent her a link to a new job, and then I think it made her realize, oh, I've been talking about this. I think she didn't realize how much this she was centering this in a life until she saw her friend, and then she realized. And then she got a new job. And it's so much better.
Because that's what you need from your friendships, right is I reckon that when you're stuck in that cycle, your frontal lobe or something actually shuts down and you're not reasonable like I had.
And also because you feel like you're in a safe space, which you should feel.
That, and a friend can say to you. I had this over the break. I knew I was irrationally angry about something, and I was venting to very specific people about this thing that I was angry about. And those three people had the exact same advice for me, Like they told me exactly what they were like, I totally understand how you feel. I think probably you don't say anything because they they were using a part of their brain that was actually useful in that situation. I took
their advice. They were right. I moved through it. But those vents, I think made me feel like I didn't have to go and then take it out on this person who actually ultimately didn't deserve it.
There is a new way women are hanging out with their friends spenting. It's not venting unfortunate.
Event nights, vent sill out.
They're called admin nights.
I'd rather die ANTI. That sounds terrible.
For someone who has to do their taxes once a year, You're like, every weekend, it's just doing my taxi And it's like, is it every weekend?
Most people to like you also don't run.
A small business like you're employed. Why are taxes taking up your whole year?
Please tell us about these few kinds of nights.
I'm like, how do I relate to the women today?
Do do taxes?
Eihlighters running to tell us about tell us about these new kinds of friends?
Okay, ad midnight. So all the stuff that you've been putting off, like your taxes, I have a very long list. What you do is is you get your friends together at someone's house once a month. They bring their laptops, they bring their notepads, they bring their emotional support water bottle, and you just sit down together and you do those tasks.
So, whether it's.
Booking appointments, making appointments.
What else to be Well, I'll tell you mathematics.
Maybe I had been listed at the moment taxes, but also I've got complicated passport renewals going on, I've got car service I need to book. I've got medical appointments for things I would still rather go to prison.
You're not doing those things. You don't do it in front of ourself. My friends are doing ad midnight.
That's what we need. Maybe we need to be imprisoned to get all of these things done, because then we don't feel like we're messing out on anything. My one is claims question mark, like I need to claim.
But that comes on axes, medicare, Like there's lots of things, or like.
Behave bill, or like get to bottom of email, which will never ever happen, like a bunch of just born. I like the idea of doing it around people because.
Then if you have questions for people to ask, Yeah, judge me.
For the first.
Weren't you talking about renewing that passport last year?
I'm like, yeah, it.
Does feel good. Though I had to renew my license recently, and I think it had been ten years.
I needed a new photo, so.
I was like this is an insurmountable task I can never achieve. Like, I don't see how problem this fits into my life. Like all I did was talk about how I can't where do I go where?
And also I look the same. I look the same.
It's fine and anyway.
I haven't seen in the twenty sixteen train, I look exactly exactly the same.
I didn't book anything, because booking things that's an admin thing.
I reckon.
It took me from my work to go and get my license renewed and I test picture. I reckon. It took me a total of about twenty two minutes to do the entire thing that I had complained about, and then I needed to call my mum on the way home to let her know. She's so proud that I was like, I just want to go. That would worry about it on my list until I got pulled over and someone said, mate, your license is six months out of Okay, who is this child?
I like her side park.
It is Friday's so we want to help set up your weekend with our very best recommendations, including a super old school one for me, vibes, ideas, atmosphere, casual, something fun. This is my best recommendation.
It's Friday, which means it's recommendations.
I'm going in.
I'm going in because I hear a rivalry.
It's not obviously that. Sorry, everybody, everybody is right about that. I resisted.
Did you watch it on your own? Because I'm trying to get Luca to watch with me.
I think I've misunderstood it's a solo pursuit and what it became for me. I was like, I'm not watching it. I'm not watching it. And then I was like, Okay, I gotta watch it because I was going to talk to me.
And I'm about it. Then I was like, oh, all I want to do is watch it. So it became my treat watch.
So I gotta said amount of words done, all my work done, didn't renew my past.
I could watch an episode.
It is as good as they say. That's all I'm gonna say about that. Because you've already recorded it, EMM, you were early to this trend. What I'm actually recoing is something very very very different to heated rivalry, and very different from those Netflix shows we were just talking about, which is Hamnet, which is an Oscar favorite.
You've probably heard about it. It's a movie.
It's in the movie theaters and I went to see it on Saturday night and it is one of those films two things.
If you don't know.
Hamner is based on a book that Maggie O'Farrell, who is one of my favorite writers. She's an amazing writer wrote in twenty twenty and it became a smash.
You recommended it and I recommended it at the time.
Is it a truth story?
So what it is is the thing is, if Mea was here and I started telling what it was about, she would immediately go borring. But so you know, stay with me, friends. It's a reimagining of Shakespeare's wife, So basically Anne Hathaway, anne Hathaway, not that Anne Hathaway who suffered her own slings and arrows, that rageous fortune, but not her. So popular wisdom goes that Shakespeare was married.
He married this woman in Stratford, which is where he's from, which is kind of in the middlands of England, before he became famous, before he became a big deal, And the popular wisdom kind of goes, she trapped him by having a baby and he had to marry her, and she was kind of dumb and illiterate, and then he went off to London and became this big, shiny star and he was always kind of like anchored to this
ball and chain of Anne Hathaway. That was kind of like for a long time what the story of Shakespeare's wife was. If you watch Shakespeare in Love closely, you know that amazing rom con that Gwinnie wanted. It's even referenced in that that he has a wife somewhere, but you know, yeah, it's problem.
So Maggie O'Farrell, and she wasn't the first.
I think Jermaine Greer also did this, like nobody really knows what was going on there, but reimagined the story that Anne Hathaway, who in her book is called Agnes. Actually it's a real love match. Like she's a really interesting woman. She's a bit of a witchy, natury, witchy woman. It was a real love match and they were very
passionate about each other and their family. But she really understood his ambition and he had this controlling father, so she was like, you go off to London and do your thing and send for us one day and then didn't happen. But anyway, Hamnah is kind of about that. But the reason everybody will say it's devastating, it's all those things is because and I don't think this is a spoiler, because it is. The whole premise of the book is that they have a son who dies. And
this movie is so beautifully made. It's directed by a woman called Chloe Joo. She made No Madland, which was that sort of very beautiful, ponderous movie where Francis McDorman is working in the Amazon factory and travels around blah blah blah. Award for that, yeah, and then she went Marvels and did the Eternals with Angelina Jolie. But this is kind of a bit of a return to more of the award bait stuff. It stars Paul Muscal and Jesse Buckley, who I didn't really know about, but she
won the Golden Globe. This is her film. She is in every scene. It is absolutely extraordinary and it's such a beautiful film, and it's one of those films that by the end you're like, every bit of you is like, well, for a start, you're devastated. So don't go and see this if you're feeling really fred, if you're suffering with grief, unless you really need a.
Big sob I was sobbing.
I think the lights came up and Brent was like, I think he thought something really bad.
But it is so good. It's so beautiful, it's so beautifully.
Made, it so beautifully done, and it's one of those pieces of art that just makes you feel like art has that power.
You know, he just has that power.
And that's actually what it's about in a way, because it comes back around to the fact that Shakespeare obviously very famously wrote a play called Hamlet.
Was it about Hamlet? A bit? Anyway? Beautifully?
I couldn't recommend it enough. I'm not sure if you should see it, Jesse, because she is pregnant with twins. It's not that great. There's a lot of very visceral mother stuff in this, a lot of very visceral birth stuff, a lot of very visceral stuff about losing children. Like it's not easy going, but it is so worth it. Loved it, loved it.
I hope that Jesse Buckley wins.
All the warnings. Oh and Joe Alwin's in it, Taylor's ress ex boyfriend, who I just feel sorry for that guy because he's just forever Taylor swift sex boyfriend right, and there he is in his Oscar Worthy movie plodding around.
He's fine.
Anyway, I've talked enough, but haven't it.
I have a recommendation that is not as high brow because yours. It is just broadly underpants. And let me explain, you know how. My word of the year is grace, and it's just like going a bit easy on yourself, just small winds. Very biblical, just yeah, very biblical. Every time I put he you know, when you've got your underpants that like dig into your hips and at the end of the day it's uncomfortable and then you get those lines, you get those lines or like you feel.
I was even at night going and I guess my hips have gotten bigger anyway. But also every time I went to get undies, I was like sifting through. So I had like seven pairs and most of them had holes in them. Anyway, I went, I think you're allowed to buy some new underpants from Kmart.
Even though I think that's got to be an exception in your yes little not buying things exactly.
I'm like, I'm getting my underpants from deep Hop. That's probably my line. So I go to Kama I got anko. I think they're bamboo blend three pack for twelve dollars. Seem free when upper size. No harm in getting undies that are upper sides.
I only ever buy on these uppersides.
Yeah, you've got to you just got everything in. And then I also went, you know what, you need more socks because so many of your socks have holes in it because my dog eats them. And now I look at my draw and it makes me think of Luca has a mantra which is kais in Have you.
Ever heard of this word? No, what's that?
It's a Japanese philosophy and people are going to be horrified that I'm using it in this context. But it's all about one percent improvements. So I was like, how can I make my life one percent better today? Yeah? He says kais and a lot as a passive aggressive tool to be like put the butter back in the fridge or something. But it's about marginal gains and this is like, I reckon, I feel one percent better every day because I've got my comfy underpants.
Something witchy about this, Jesse, because I did exactly the same thing on the weekend. I remember a few years ago. I said on this show that one day I just threw away all my nickers, and I expected to get a lot of pushback on that because wasteful, but actually everyone was like, yes, because the thing is and I don't want to make myself sound gross or anything, but there's a certain percentage of your underwear.
Is like, it doesn't make me feel good.
It's got holes, it's got these shreads, it's not you know, it's just not good anymore. Like there's a lifespan, right, yes, And I would be the same rummaging run. And so I did that again just this past weekend. We were probably at different different I'm jealous, and I threw away all my yucky knickers and I bought all new exactly the same, big black cotton nickers a size.
Any sexy pieces in there.
Well, it's unfortunately, see single people always say this. My friend said to me, by self sexy and just for yourself, And well I might, but I was like, that's not the priority of this shop.
Now.
This shop is about volume, yep, economy and just general improvements of comfort. So you and I both had a nicker purge on the weekend we did.
I picked up one that I discovered was a jay string and I went, oh no, there's been.
An no no, no, no, that's.
Not what I want.
I know what.
We're a big boileg at the back.
That's a different thing.
Actually, I would love recommendations I should ask you for. Like when I say sexy, I don't mean sexy, but.
I become fun but nice looking.
I actually do have some round that might be my record next week.
Because I quite want colorful, nice undies too, like brass and stuff.
This is exciting project for me.
I have what's your reco Okay, a bit different from both of yours. I really wanted something to binge like, I really wanted to show that's been going on for a while that a lot of people like that. I can just binge and just have on in the background so I can also look at my friend while I'm watching it. And I came across taken screen for sure. I came across Chicago Fire on Disney Plus.
What's the premise?
Okay, so the premier is this group of firefighters they put out fires in Chicago.
Okay, that's it. That's it.
That's literally it.
Are they sexy five fighter? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they have to be. Yeah.
It stars Jesse Spencer, who is Australian actor. He played Chase in House Yep. It also stars Taylor Kinney. You would know him as Lady Gaga's ex fiance. It also stars Steve from Sex in the City.
Oh Wow, Okay, come in.
So it's one of those shows where more people would come on and be like, WHOA, I didn't know you in this.
I feel like it could be a sequel to Sex in the City. But like Steve's.
Second job when he's playing basketball.
Off, I could see him becoming a firefighter.
So hot in it, we all have like abs and they're all really hard, and they're all.
Like and do they always get the fire out?
Always?
They always get the fire out. They're also like doing some investigations with the police.
I didn't know they could do that.
They're always healing people. It's just so easy to watch. It started in twenty twelve.
I'm on season two. It's still goes We'll throw back. Yeah.
Season is coming out later this year, so I think there's like eighteen seasons.
Soless.
It's so good.
It feels like Criminal minds. Eh, that's fun, Big steaks.
But you know what, I think there are going to be out louders who are like, welcome em cargo fire.
Every time I talk to someone about this, they're like, oh my mom watches that shirt. I'm like, okay, it's soothing.
I love it.
If you want to know or what our recommendations are, if you've forgotten what we've said already and what they always are, they're always in the newsletter. By the way, if you need a reason to sign up to the mom Mia out Loud newsletter, which is often called Holly out Loud because I write a thing in there.
It has the recommendations in it. Do that. There's a link in the show notes.
That is all we have time for this week.
It's been a big week.
It has a big thank you to our team group executive producer Reef to Fine, executive producer Sasha Tanic.
Our senior audio producer is Leah Porge's video producer is Josh Green, and our junior content producer is Tessa Kodovich.
Bye Bye Bye Bye.
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we've recorded this podcast.