You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Hello and welcome to another week, and welcome to Mama Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking about on Monday, the ninth of March.
I'm Holly wayIn Wright, I'm Klaire Stevens.
And I'm Amelia Lester.
And here are some things that have made our agenda for today. Why Megan, the Duchess of jam might be standing next to you in a Sydney coffee queue next month and what that has to do with the unfolding multimillion dollar drama of Kyle.
And Jackia, plus the act of subtle rebellion that has everyone talking about the Iranian women's soccer team.
And look, my favorite show is Love Story, but Daryl Hannah says I have to stop watching it, So we're going to talk about why. And you know, we just had to check in on the latest Brooklyn Beckham drama.
I just had a little laugh at the beginning of that sentence out louders because off Mike, we've.
Just rousing Amelia abount that show.
We shall get to.
That, but first, before we get started, we know that there is one out Loud host that you have all been dying to hear from, so welcome to our table remotely one Jesse Stevens.
Hello, This is Jesse from the other side of pregnancy luc who is also here John. Hello, Hi, We are driving to the hospital. We've just dropped Luna at her little Chuck here.
There is so.
Much I want to debrief on with the outlouders. There is so much that has happened since early last Saturday morning. Enormous shock, my waters broke, and from there it was an absolute whirlwind. And on early Monday morning we welcomed Harry and Margo into the world. They are tiny, but they are healthy, is the headline. They needed some snorkels to help them breathe to start with, and they were in Nikou for a good week and now they've been moved to special care.
As the latest update.
We are in this bizarre period of limbo where I was saying to Holly, everyone tells you when you have twins or when you're expecting, your hands are going to be so full, or you'll have your hands full, and our hands when we're not at the hospital are empty. And it's really discombobulating and weird and heartbreaking. But there are moments of absolute beauty and joy in it. You know, I didn't get to hold Harry for hours and hours after he was born, but the second I got to
see him at hold him was so special. So lots to tell you a big story coming. I would love to tell you the story this week where trying to get a little routine going with being in the hospital and balancing it all with lunar and everything. But I just want to thank everyone who has reached out, and the people who have reached out with their own stories of NIKU and special care. Really obviously to say, but you don't get.
It till you get it.
I had absolutely no idea what that would be like, sending so much love to anyone who has ever gone through that or is currently going through it. It is a headfuck, a total headfuck. Anyway, we are in in the hard bit, and we are falling more and more in love with these babies every single day, and we know just how lucky we are to have them cared for so well. Luca,
did you want to say anything? I have no idea what I just said, and I like my brain I've been saying that even when I like write down the express milk date. I'm like, it's the fortieth of November today, So I don't know anything that I just said, any corrections.
I wasn't listening.
Okay, cool, all right, love that, talk to you soon, out Louders. Bye.
Sorry.
There's one extra thing that the out louders are going to really care about, and that is the snacks. I can't believe I didn't acknowledge that before Mike and Harry. As we all know, I no longer have diabetes now. Unfortunately, my app site is just not where I need it to be in order to fully enjoy all of the snacks. I have been indulging in Cadbury Easter eggs. I have had a smoothie. Last night we went back to burgers and chips. What else have I been enjoying?
You really really did have a good crack at your burger and chips.
Oh yeah I did. It was just all gone, It was all gone. That's just been lovely. Yeah, I've been I've been really enjoying that. Thanks so much for your support out Louders during.
Champagne.
Oh I have I have. That's been lovely. But I'm looking forward to continuing to eat too much sugar for the rest of my life.
Oh my gosh, if anyone's knew here, that was of course Jesse Stevens, who is one of our beloved toasts here are out Loud Clare.
She's also your sister.
Yes, what do you want to add to that amazing update from your twin?
So it has been a bit of a roller coaster week. Every now and then Jesse will say I'm feeling very emotional.
I think something's.
Wrong, and I'm like, no, I think that is totally healthy and normal. And so there have been a few times where I feel like things emotionally haven't hit her yet and they'll hit me, but I'm like, I just won't say anything until it hits her. But I did think it was funny that a lot of the out Louders when Jesse posted a photo of Harry and Margo and introduce them, a lot of out Louders weren't wearing their glasses and so there was a lot of confusion
misinterpretation around what that post was. But my favorite was the out Louders who for sure thought that she had named her babies Harry and Meghan, which.
She's really Jesse Stevens, I love you, but you have missed a trick.
Yeah, yeah, that would have been so fun. That would have been really fun.
Have you been in there a lot?
Have you?
Being Auntie? I mean you're pregnant yourself, there is a lot of hormones and anxiety inducing things flying around and I'm sure, but have you been in there giving them a little squeeze when you can?
Yes?
Some might say too much. I have threatened to steal They've been given a swipe card for the NIKU Special Care area. I have threatened to steal it and turn up because the nurses a few times have thought I'm Jesse.
And I'm like that, Yeah, that would be lovely.
I'd come and just like have some cuddles, smuggle them out in my handbag. The cords will be a dead giveaway. But no, I'm completely besotted with them. They're so little. And it's weird because I was tiny.
When I was born.
I was growth restricted thanks to this person, you guys might know, Jesse. She had all my nutrients. So I look at Margo and I was the exact same size she was when I was born, and I'm like, Wow, Mum and Dad weren't lying when they said I could fit in the palm of their hand and all that stuff Nicki nurses. Just holy Molly, are there kinder people there are listening to these women the hope and the support and the kindness and the gentleness that they exude.
I am in complete awe. I'm obsessed. And that's what everybody says. Nicki is actually quite a magical place.
We just want to send all our love, of course to our Jesse and our Margot and our Harry and our Luna, but also to anyone out there who is going through this. As Jesse says out louders are so awesome with their wishes. And you can hear more about this from another member of this family tomorrow's Subscribe episode. I believe that one Nana Mia Friedman, I'm just gonna call her Nana Nana to annoy it more, is going to kind of give a bit of her side of the update of the grand babies.
Yeah, sending Jesse lots of love.
My favorite part of this whole thing was when Maya first entered the Niku, stood next to a baby, started crying and had to be told that it's not your that's not a baby that's related.
Not related to that baby.
And she became really attached to that baby, and I was like, that is the most Maya Friedman thing's ever happened. So if you're that baby's mother, I'm sorry me are imprinted on that child?
Okay, back to business.
I need to talk to you both about my friend Timothy.
One week today is the Oscars.
Mister Challamay has made no secret of the fact he really really wants that award for Marty Supreme. He's banged on about it a lot. Luckily for him, perhaps Oscar voting closed on Thursday night last week, oh, five pm, Thursday, LA time, right, because things were looking a bit shaky for him anyway on this front for a few reasons. But if Oscar's had closed after he'd said this, which we're about to play you, I have a feeling his hopes would be even lower. So Timothy Challamau was being
interviewed for Variety magazine. Matthew McConaughey is sitting next to him. It's one of those round tably things. So in this interview, he was talking about whether people should be protecting cinemas. You know how there's this big debate going on about like.
Everybody should go to the movies to watch a movie.
He weighs in on that and manages to put a great, big dancing shoe in the center.
Of that argument.
I admire people, and I've done it myself. Do you want to talk to you about? Hey, we got to keep movie theaters alive, you know, we got to keep this genre alive. And another part of me feels like if people want to see it like Barbie, like Oppenheimer, they're going to go see it and go out of
their way and be loud and proud about it. And I don't want to be working in ballet or opera or you know, things where it's like, hey, keep this thing alive even though no one cares about this year all respect to the ballet and opera people out there, I just lost fourteen cents in viewership.
I have a feeling you can imagine how that went down with the ballet and opera community.
What you can't see in that clip is Matthew McConaughey sitting next to him, just thinking like you are digging yourself a hole, mate. When Matthew McConaughey knows that, yeah, that's true.
Famously, the naked bongo playing He's famously.
Easy going, and even he looks nervous.
It does because what has happened since that little video went viral is ballet dances all over the world have played Timothy shallow May their number one enemy. There have been operas that are offering discount code for tickets with the word Timothy. There have been ballet dancers like performing these amazing stunts on their tiptoes.
I want to make them angry. Has anyone seen black Swan?
I know, I know the particularly mad about the no one cares comment, Claire.
Has he scuppered his chances? Yes?
And okay, really dumb question. Did he win at the other awards?
So he won some of them, but he didn't win the most recent one. So he did he won a Golden Globe. You know, the run up to the Oscars, there's a series of awards and usually it kind of builds momentum, and his momentum early was good. But in the last two awards ceremonies is dropped off a bit. And I think that maybe enthusiasm for Timothy and a few other things like the surge for sinners, for example, Michael B. Jordan one at the Bafters. My prediction is
he's going to be disappointed on Monday. But I also think that after this comment, Timothy's dollar has sung.
It's now also the thing where he said a stupid thing, which there's such a thing as doing too many interviews and then you just have too much opportunity to say things. So I can almost see how he said this and where he was coming from. But it was a really dumb thing to say, because.
Those are very privileged, high falutint arts that it costs a lot of money to go and see them, which is why it's a bit of a weird comparison to although multiplex tickets aren't cheap days the price.
Of popcorns, I know.
But the funny thing is that once you say something like that, then you've got a target on your back, and then everybody goes through your whole career and likes to pull things out. So my favorite little tidbit that has come out in the last few days is the revelation that during filming for Wonka, Chalomay's private chef was required to prepare three different breakfasts, of which Chalameai would only have one. Bless him, I had done so much. He hasn't addressed the breakfast room.
It be real, we would do the same thing.
I know.
Actually, I don't know what I feel like.
I never know if I want sweet or save for it until I get to it exactly. I also love that he was called to his high school principal's office.
Did you see this?
He went to this very prestigious school called LaGuardia High School of Music and Art in New York, and Principal Mahwah at that school wrote on Instagram over the weekend that he wasn't mad at Timmy, he was just disappointed.
He said, LaGuardia, we do.
Not rank art forms. You come from this world. We know your heart and we know you know better. And I learned from this Instagram post that Timmy himself his grandmother danced at the New York City Ballet, his mother danced at the New York City Ballet, and his sister danced at the New York City Ballet.
So what is he doing?
God?
I also think that we don't have the patience for long award campaigns anymore.
We've all moved on to Harry Styles.
Like our favorite skinny white guy at the moment is Harry Styles, and we're like Timothy, who can we give the Oscar Harry styles?
And he was wearing his darn orange in that interview too.
I think he may have revealed himself as Kylie Jenner's boyfriend.
That's rude of me.
But last Monday, in the wake of increasing conflict in the Middle East, the Iranian women's soccer team took the field for their Asian Cup match against South Korea on the Gold Coast. What happened next went viral. The team stayed silent during their country's national anthem, staring ahead, some of them with subtle smiles on their faces, and it was widely interpreted as a subtle act of resistance against the islam Republic. In the days afterwards, they were labeled
as wartime traders by Iranian state television. Radical conservative presenter Mohammad Rezat Shabazi called for the squad and the coach to be dealt with more severely under what's believed to be suspected instruction from their security. The team then did sing their national anthem before their match against Australia on
Friday and their match against the Philippines on Sunday. What is terrifying is that there are now grave concerns for the team as they prepare to head home, and we're really seeing how this conflict is reaching Iranian people all over the world. We had a an out louder called Motti reach out and chat about this particular story and how much it was meaning to her. Holly, what do we know about the current situation with this football team.
So the thing is is the Iranian team of now are now out of the tournament, so they've lost their three games, and so they should be going home. They should be going back to Tehran. It hasn't been confirmed
whether or not they have or are. But last night when they lost their last match and they got on the bus to leave the stadium where they were playing, a lot of protests had gathered around them, waving flags from pre Islamic regime revolution in Iran, expressing grave fears for these women's safety, pressuring the Australian government to give
offer them asylum. The thing that's complicated here is that they are, as you've said, Claire, they're traveling with government officials, so they are under surveillance, and nobody wants to add any danger to what these women are doing and going through. It's a very quickly evolving situation because people. A spokesperson for Amnesty International, for example, says that at this point this team is kind of damned if they do and
damned if they don't. Want it comes to returning to Iran, because if they're seen as being traders and they go back, they could be punished, as per what they report on the state television said, who explicitly called for an example to be set by these women.
But then if they don't, their.
Families could be targets back at home. So it's incredibly difficult. It's just worth noting. I think watching this, you know, I was watching the Matildas play them on the weekend. I think the women's bravery is outstanding because Iran doesn't field a women's team in this way necessarily because the regime wants to more because FIFA insists that a women's team must be fielded if a man's team is being fielded.
Right in many areas in the Middle East, just like in many places all around the world, soccer football is a huge, huge sport, and women playing it has been really controversial at different times in Iran, as it has in other parts of the world. There have been times
women have been banned from entering stadiums. There have been times when they've been banned from playing it Publicly, that's not the case at the moment, but the amount of pressure that these women in orunda is enormous and it's just a reminder that sport can be so much more than sport, and women's sport in particular can be incredibly important.
Sam Kerr was talking about playing the Iranians and obviously they beat them in the game on the weekend, but how impressed and in awe of their strength and composure the Australian team were, and how they wanted the world to know they had their arm around them.
It's a really difficult situation.
They're just so brave. It's hard to know what to say. I can't imagine having to get together and make that sort of decision as a team. It's so moving to me that they all agree to do the same thing together.
A petition has been handed to the Albanese government mutually to Tony Burke, pushing for asylum, but as I said earlier, there's some complexities around that too, and Penny Wong at the time of recording, has just said that she stands with the women's team, whatever that means.
There are rules around protecting I'm not sure if they come from FIFA or if they come from the Asian Cup itself, around protecting athletes who are in danger. So I found that really fascinating that there's an obligation to protect them if they are at risk upon returning home.
The other thing I was just thinking about was there was a really horrible news story over the weekend about basically a hot mic moment where a women's sport team, at women's AFL team was practicing in Victoria and some men who were watching the game, who I believe were involved in a coaching capacity, made some really appalling comments about the physical shape of the women playing AFL, and I guess that just made me reflect these two events
in contrast to each other. It made me think about how what you said, Holly is so true that sport can be more than sport, and the possibility of women competing on the world stage in sport and using their bodies to compete in that way can be such a powerful political statement in itself, and we shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back in Australia and pretending that we don't have issues with treating women athletes differently from male athletes, because we still do on Amelia And when I read
those comments, I mean, there was so disgusting and out loud as well know, my daughter plays AFL and it's so upsetting to understand that those attitudes exist, but also that.
Women just playing sport it can be a powerful political statement. But also why should it have to be, you know, when women and girls just want to play the game and get an enormous amount of satisfaction and empowerment from doing it. And yet somehow, even here, when I read that new story, it's like sort of dragged back down to some kind of political statement.
You're so right.
It came also on the heels of last week my daughter got the opportunity to go on the field at the Sydney Cricket Ground for the Swan's opening match at halftime and kick the ball around a little bit with her very cute team mixed team of boys and girls playing AFL for the first or second time in their lives. It made me tear up a little bit because you're so right, it shouldn't have to be a political statement for girls to play sport.
To play up next.
What does Kyle and Jackie O's feud have to do with Harry and Megan coming to Australia.
How Loud is it has been a week. It's been a time. I've got news, and so I've decided it's not really my news, but it affects me. I've decided to do a different kind of subs episode this week, and it is a diary entry. It's just me with a mic. It's a bit insta babele, but it's pod babbel. It's subspod babbel that rolls off the tongue. I'm going to talk about my new grand babies, among other things. Have a listen, it's coming out tomorrow. I do subscriber
episodes twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So if you're not already a subscriber and you want to hear my diary note, follow the link in the show notes to listen to out Loud five days a week.
There's a few curious updates to the very juicy story. We can't look away from the falling out between Carl and Jackie oh. So last Wednesday we discussed in detail the segment that appears to have imploded the relationship between two of Australia's most long standing and lucrative media personalities. But on Friday, Jackie O came out with a statement clarifying one particular detail. She said, over the past few days, there has been a lot of speculation and misinformation about
my departure on the show. I want to make one important point very clear. I did not quit or resign. Henderson said she was deeply saddened by the events of the past week and the possibility of the show ending, and she said this has come as a shock to me, as it has to everyone else. Now, this kind of got us thinking because a lot of the media did a lot of the coverage did have the tone that she had quit.
Yeah, including me. I think he's talking to me.
Yeah, I know a story that was, like today, a woman walked away from one hundred million dollars.
The woman did not walk away from it.
And the point I was kind of trying to make in that is there was a limit, and not necessarily specifically about Jackie, but obviously isn't that talk. There's a limit to how much shit you can take before you snap. And I think what Jackie's clearly pointing out is like she did not snap. Snap is the wrong word. It sounds derogatory, like she couldn't hack it or something. I don't mean that. I mean she's making a very clear point. I wasn't quitting. I was just saying this is untenable.
And there's a good legal reason for making that point too, because if you're under contract and you quit, it's very different from if you're under contract and things end for another reason.
Because when you go back and look at the original statement from ARN, which we read out on Wednesday's episode, it says Jacqueline Henderson has given notice that she cannot continue to work with mister Kyle Sandlands, and ARN has terminated the services agreement with Henderson under which she presents the Kyle and Jackie O Show. Now, it's also been reported that behind the scenes, she has said that she felt unsafe in that workplace. So, as you say, Holly,
there is a very specific legal difference. What did you think of the commentary that perhaps she's been complicit in an environment with Kyle that has been misogynistic and perhaps contributed to other women feeling unsafe.
Yes, and just obviously where this is going to end up is in two enormous legal cases, so everybody is going to be careful about what they say, myself included. But that commentary is just what out louders and every woman who reads Mama mir has been saying for a
long time, which is very much a divided audience. Carl and Jackie, Oh, just for context, have this enormous audience one point five million listeners in Sydney alone, right, And there are millennial women, including ones who work in this office, who have been listening to them for decades and who are genuinely sad that that shows finished because they're kind of like in the same way that some people would say maths is their guilty pleasure in inverted commas, they'd say,
I've grown up with Kyl and Jackie. That is part of my day, and I'm really sad that they're over right, But there are a lot of people who always have been very uncomfortable with that show.
It's not news to anyone.
And it's interesting about how you feel about the woman who sits next to the man. Some people have always seen her as well. She's got agencies to do what she wants. She's the highest paid media worker basically in Australia, good on you girl, make the money, and others have always said that she was complicit. Virginia Trioli, very experienced and respected broadcast wise woman of all kinds, spoke to Hamish McDonald on ABC Radio on Friday about this and this is what she said.
He had a collaborator in Jackie O. And that collaborator who smiled and laughed prettily at all the appalling jokes and troducing of women and insulting of women and degrading of women that he was doing. She took the money and happily collaborated in that. So I feel for her if she feels that her workplace is uncertain.
I can hear where you're landing on the gender question here right this reading really interesting pieces about you know, whether Jackie O is sort of victim or collaborator here or both which both nuanced. That's kind of trickier territory for us to sit in.
I don't know, if you choose to be the collaborator, you'll probably end up being the victim at some point. And I think I don't want to make this personal, but there is such a thing as personal responsibility. And if you're prepared to take that cash in order to make that kind of radio, then you might expect this someday it might come for you.
That point you made Holly the woman who sits next to the man, And I think that's what Virginia Trioli is getting out when she uses the word collaborate as well. It's almost like Jackie made what Kyle was saying feel okay. Well, there's a woman sitting next to him and she's laughing, so it must be okay. It kind of not just softens the blow, but kind of makes it more palatable for people. I was thinking about that time a journalist
gave him an unfavorable review. Jacqueline mainly talked about this incident in her column over the weekend, and he described the journalist, who us, of course a woman, as a piece of shit and a fat slag. Now I'm sorry to even say those words on the air, but I think it's important that we reference it. And then Jackie's response to that was that she laughed, and she pointed out to listeners that there was a photo of the journalist in the article in case they were interested in having a look.
It's interesting because I think I got a couple of messages after I wrote that story last week about the woman who walks away from one hundred million, because the way I set that up was like, how long can you put up with a difficult man? And one of the points I kind of made is that there's something sometimes about a powerful misogynist who aims his vitriol at
other women but keeps some women close. And I got a few messages from women who feel that they've been in work relationships like that, or even relationships like that where you're on the inside or almost at the table.
And so you're like, well, he doesn't hate all women.
And when I say this, I'm not specifically talking about Kyle Jackio. I'm being broader. But you can say he doesn't hate all women because he's nice to me, right, And that's something that women who have been conditioned for a long time to scrap for their seat at a powerful table or for a hefty paid packet or whatever it is, that can be quite attractive. You're like, oh, so, you know, I know people say horrible things about such and such a boss, but he's always treated me well.
And then the point that Melee was making, and a few others have made is that when that misogyny does get turned around and named it you, it can be very shocking. And that's what a few women were saying to me and their messages.
Sometimes people even vote for men who act like.
That is a very good Sometimes not always, but sometimes.
I think that point that Virginia Tree only makes about if you are a collaborator, you will become a victim is just such a clever way of putting it, because I did think last week and last week, you know, we were still getting our heads around the story in the segment and all of that, but listening to the segment, it just is stark to hear Jackie being obviously it was cruel, like Kyle was being cruel.
It was cruel.
Jackie was upset. You could hear how upset she was. And as somebody who has listened, and I would like to clarify because there were some comments in the Outluders group. I am not a regular listener of Kylo, used to catch it on my way to work, so I swear it's okay, you're allowed.
Like we're not. You know, we're not the police here, but I'm not.
I'm not some fan girl, but listening to that. There was an element of wait a second, you've giggled when he is throwing those kinds of attacks at other women, and like, is it surprising that he would then come for you. It's the thought of he's shown you that he is disrespectful, will continue to go at something once somebody has expressed that they're not okay, that he will go after women's appearances their way.
What was the business model?
It's more than just an incidental thing that happened every now and then.
Yeah, that was part of the appeal of this show exactly.
So it's interesting that when the cruelty has turned, and it was cruelty, when the cruelty has turned, that a lot of people are saying, hold on a second.
I think whatever happens that's going to be very interesting because there is a lot of money, it's and obviously there are lawyers drawn at all quarters. But there is an interesting bit of gossip that's coming out here about what maybe one of Jackie's next moves. Now we need to be clear that that bit of this story isn't confirmed, but there is some interesting news that has been confirmed. Tell us about Meghan class.
Yes, so there's some gossip and I swear these things are related. So, more than seven years after their last visit to Australia, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are returning in mid April. And why are they are going on a number of private business and philanthropic engagement in Simmy and Melbourne.
What does that mean? Doing?
No idea?
So, because they've just been in the Middle East, right, So we've talked lots of times on this show about whether or not Harry and Meg's can be like Royal Light, so, you know, going on sort of royal tours that aren't royal tours, and they've just been on one in the Middle East, and they visited a refugee camp in Jordan, and they've done all kinds of you know, serious philanthropic things. But this private and business ventures, what's that all?
Well? At the same time, news just came out that Netflix has essentially divorced itself from as ever Meghan's Edible Flowers and Jam business, and Meghan says this was always the plan. Her people said they always wanted to eventually go their own way because it started off as a joint venture with Netflix. They specifically said that what they want to do now that as ever is an in house operation only is start global shipping, including to Australia.
They have heard your please, Holy my god, that's.
What they're doing here, Claire.
Well, I wanted to say I was a little bit surprised to hear that they were coming back, because something I think about late at night is that so when they were on their royal tour seven years ago, I somehow got approval from my boss at the time, which may or may not have been Hollywayen right to stand at the opera house for six hours and wait to meet them.
That was a hard day's work.
I don't see how that was like profitable for the business.
Can I admit, as a fan girl of this show that Jesse was on this show immediately after she encountered them there, and that's what began her her whole Royal journey because she said that she loved them.
Okay, Well, I have always been a staunch defender and I have said no. Harry looked me straight in the eyes, Megan, did I say congratulations on your pregnancy because I had announced it that morning, Like I've defended them because my beautiful interaction with them was simply lovely.
Are they going to walk about again.
I bloody hope so, and I will be out to have a look because I think they're stunning. But Tina Brown's book The Palace Papers, which was published in twenty twenty two, said that they hated that loyal to her, and it really made me rethink what I thought was.
A beautiful moment that was a good story about, because.
I thought I didn't want to wash my hand like because I had touched that. I was thinking this was such a special moment. It clearly wasn't for them. I thought they hated Australia, but clearly it was just the royalness that they hate. They didn't hate the country she hated.
I think Harry likes Australia. Australia's got a very Harry vibe to.
It, right.
He has his friend Daphney.
He does a lady in the will she does.
But also the Royals obviously are here, have been here plenty of times. But she didn't like the princessnes of it all. So this time she can do what she wants.
Now. The interesting thing, and why this.
Is didn't she make banana bread when she went to Government House?
I think she do remember that right.
I think she had a bit of koala cuddling and all those things. But what's interesting, well how this links back to our friends Kyle and Jackie Oh, is that there are rumors, and these rumors are not confirmed, but they were in news dot com over the weekend that one of the things she might do is a big
event with Jackie and Jemma O'Neill's company, Bestie's. Right now, Jackie has officially left that business, but there is rumors written in the in news dot com that says that just like they once bought Gwyneth Over, I'm like, oh my god, they've.
Got all the same obsessions as me.
I know, just as they once bought Gwyneth Over and people paid a lot of money to go and sit in an arena with them, they might be doing that with Megan now if that's true, and let's as I say, not confirmed in any way, very interesting pivot from the megs because good point Amelia that she might be launching as ever here, which would be genius because we all need the Rose stat but also high price speaking gigs are a very lucrative stream for a sort of high
profile person who doesn't quite have a full time job anymore. So recently obviously, we had Oprah out here, remember in December she was out here for a weight loss medical company, but not explicitly talking about that in any way. There are rumors that the reported fee for that for OAPS, including her sort of endorsement package, was about fifteen million dollars.
No, do you think that they flew her business clothes. I think they.
Flew our own jet I reckon. And in addition to that besties event, there are also rumors that Megan will appear as a guest on the herb Life podcast, which was initially launched and co hosted by Jackie O and jemmay' neils. So there's clearly it's possible. There's some little sprinklings that Jackie and Megan are going to be hanging out.
That's my vibe.
And look, you can't be hanging out with Kyle. If you're hanging out with Begs.
He'll say something, he'll say something effective.
Both of them come from problematic institutions. After the break Love Story, everyone's favorite guilty pleasure TV show of the moment just got a little bit more guilty. And we check in on the beckhams now My favorite TV show at the moment is one that Holly.
Does not approve of. It's called Love Story on Disney Plus.
And it tells the story of how the nineteen nineties most eligible bachelor, John F. Kennedy Junior fell in love with Style Carolyn Bassett. It's not just Holly that disapproves of my love for this show. An article did the rounds of every single group chat I am in this weekend, and it made me actually start to wonder if I should still be watching. It made me start to wonder if Holly had a point. It's a piece of The New York Times by JFK. Junior's ex girlfriend, Daryl Hannah.
Now Hannah was, for the younger listeners an eighties and nineties movie star. She was a mermaid in Splash alongside Tom Hanks. She was in Steel Magnolia's with Julia Roberts.
She was a big.
Deal actor and she also happened to date JFK. Junior for five years at the peak of her fame.
He dated a lot of famous women, right Amelia, he did.
He dated Sarah Jessica Parker as well Donna Yep, yep.
He loved him.
A big personality blonde Hannah is portrayed in a very unsympathetic light in this mini series. She's shown to be very sort of grasping, fame hungry. At one point, she even hosts this like drug fueled party at the apartment that she shares with JFK Junior before he has a very busy day at work the next day.
The article that Daryl wrote.
Over the weekend is called how can love Story get away with this? And she makes what I think is a very powerful point. She says that Daryl Hannah in this show bears no resemblance to the real Daryl Hannah. For instance, she says, I've never pressured anyone into marriage. I have never used cocaine in my life or hosted cocaine field parties. I never compared Jacqueline Onassis's death to a dog's and so on. And this all kind of culminates in the argument that this crazy ex girlfriend that
is betrayed on screen is just textbook misogyny. Holly, have you just been saying I told you so this whole time?
To be clear, I am also watching this show. I love it. I'm really enjoying it.
A bit more of a slow burn for me, but now I'm in But I remember saying to you a couple of weeks ago, I can't believe that Daryl Hannah would be happy about the way she did portrayed, because they really make her out to be awful.
And I kind of wondered when I.
Read this, I thought, why didn't they just kind of fictionalize her, because we don't We don't really know if they've nailed the personalities of anyone else in there.
Either.
There's a I heard you and me are talking about the show the other day and there's this awful scene where jackieo Nasis is drunk and dancing with an old portrait of JFK.
And light falls over on a couch and I was just.
Like, oh my god.
I mean, I know the woman is long gone, but still.
The stefamation, terrible dancing and singing involved. But imagine that your ex. I mean, and I know that this is all complicated by the tragedy that came afterwards, but imagine you were being portrayed through the eyes of your egg.
Regardless of who your ex was. If your ex got to write the story of your.
Brain, how they would portray you and how mortifying it would be. And also because Daryl Hannah has been a very private person now for decades and we don't really know whether that's her choice or not. We know that she does some animal activism, she's I think she's married to Neil Young or so.
She is, and she's done a lot of significant environmental activism as well.
But she hasn't chosen to be a big celebrity. And so imagine that a whole new generation is learning about you and who you are through this deeply unflattering portrayal.
I would be furious. I think this show. I'm enjoying it, but it's very trashy.
Claire.
What would your least favorite ex say about you?
I do not want to know, Well, I will. I mean, I don't really have like exes exes because I've been with my husband, but even my husband on a bad day, what he mind say about me? I don't want to know. The piece by Daryl Hannah about this in the New York Times great, It was brilliant. It was so good, and I thought it was a really clever way to come back at this because she sort of shows that, you know, it's always been the idea that if you're
quiet and dignified, something will blow over. The point that she makes is that the nature of media has changed, and she references in the piece that Jackie on Nassus gave her the advice that once the paper's done, it becomes scrap.
It's so cleverly done because she opens the piece with the advice from Jacqueline Nassus that basically whatever is published about you eventually becomes the lining of bird cages. So in that first sentence, she's like, I've had chats with Jackie Nassus, let me tell you how it really was.
And they are not the ones in the show, but she says that it's really different with the Internet. And this is something I have been thinking about for years and years and years, and it's sort of why I wrote my book, because I'm obsessed with the idea of the stickiness of the Internet and what a human being is meant to do when your reputation is permanently damaged online.
It doesn't matter what Daryl Hannah does from now until pev that myth of her is still going to exist, and she can write all the defenses that she wants, and she's on TikTok now good honor, getting on TikTok. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she made a TikTok to like push to the New York times pace. She's running around in the snow, and it doesn't matter kind of how much she challenges it,
although I think it does matter. It creates a counter narrative, but there are always going to be people who missed the New York Times piece and only watched Love Story then have that idea in it.
I also particularly liked her point that as a simple narrative device for the new girlfriend to be the one he marries, the perfect one, he marries blah blah blah, even though all evidence suggests their relationship was as rocky as any relationship, the ex.
Girlfriend has to have been bad. That's the narrative that we want. We want to go.
Everyone has the person who's right for them, and you date the people who are wrong for you. It wouldn't matter who Daryl Hannah was. She had to be wrong, she had to be grasping, she had to be a bit of an idiot because Carolyn Bissett has to be the perfect person. And it is a lazy narrative, and as she says, it's also misogynistic. It's like good woman badness, and life is much more complicated than that. Unfortunately, that complication doesn't do so well in a seven part drama on Disney.
And there's another layer in it too, which is I discover while I was researching for this that Hannah was diagnosed with autism as a child and in her adult life she has spoken a lot about how it led that diagnosis led her into acting, and it also affects her decision to very much retreat from the public eye.
So while she's been in big movies in the last few years, she was in Kill Bill, for instance, she has made this very conscious decision that she does not want to put herself out there for scrutiny in public. She finds it very anxiety inducing and very difficult. And the idea that someone who is ner a divergent and who has struggled with how to present themselves in the public eye because of it, is getting the double whammy
of this like inaccurate portrayal. It really made me feel ashamed for liking the show.
Could she sue The.
Answer is basically no, because someone's tried to do that before. Ryan Murphy was sued in twenty seventeen by Olivia de Haviland, who was like an old Hollywood start who accused him of a false betrayal in the show Feud, remember that show few that was also a big kid. Actually, the case was dismissed because in the US, the First Amendment really gives you a lot of leeway in terms of
artistic expression and freedom of speech. So there is a precedent that says, basically, the best you can do is hop on TikTok.
Wow, gosh, that's so depressing.
Now I do have to bring a very important second piece as celebrity news to the Conversation. The headline is the Beckhams just can't help themselves. Last week it was Brooklyn Beckham's twenty seventh birthday.
And against his express wishes, so.
David and Lady Victoria both posted birthday wishes accompanied by photos of Brooklyn as a child with his parents. Claire, how can we take these people's phone away from that?
I can't believe it. And my favorite thing about this story is the earnestness with which people approach it. And it's a generational thing, like if your Victoria and David's generation, generally you are on their side. And there are a lot of people saying bless them choosing to love in spite of all he said, And I'm like, you don't know anything about the blood like it's a post on Instagram. I think because I have always a little bit been
on Brookie side. I've got a soft spot for book and Beckham always have, I reckon this is actually evidence of exactly what he was saying, that there's a very performative aspect to the relationship.
He literally said brand Beckham comes first, adding that family love is decided by how much you post on social media.
I absolutely love that they did this.
Why did they do it? Holly?
The touch that is particularly delicious and awful about this is that.
David Beckham even says happy birthday, bust love you. I didn't even know that was Brooklyn's nickname.
So I've now learned something new about Brooklyn Bacon from the parents that he has ganged from sharing anything about him.
Ever.
It's really interesting because last time we talked about this, and we talked about whether or not families should express their love by saying happy birthday to each other on Instagram, a lot of people said that is how everybody expresses their love these days, like it doesn't. It doesn't mean you don't love your family. In fact, that's where a whole generation expressed a happy birthday, darling, love you, sisters, friends,
everybody does it. So I don't think there's anything sinister about that or that it shows that you don't love them.
How about.
What it does show is.
That they do not care for Brooklyn's cease and desist and that they're like, you will not stop us. We will keep marching on because I think that they probably think if we let that date slip by. I tell you what, Nicola Peltz did not let that slip by. She had a lot of posts about Brookie on that day. Then they would be seen to be walking away from him. And they're not going to They're not going to back down without a fight. They are going to wait that
marriage out. That's what those two are going to do.
I tell you what you can It's all about image. It's oh gosh, I find it.
My big takeaway from this episode is that I really should have become a lawyer.
I know lawyers like good job lawyers.
Every story seems to come back to them and how rich are about to be?
Yeah, the problem is I wouldn't be able to specialize because I'd want to be in every kind of lawyer. So I'd want to be a Daryl Hanna a lawyer, and then I'd also want to be Rookie Beckham lawyer and a radio lawyer.
Imagine the payday on the lawyer on the lawyers for our friends Kyle and Jacket.
Yeah, I think needs a lawyer. Oh my god.
He does the.
Ballet dancers Yeah, Oh my god, they seem ligious.
I think to have a dance off cheaper out louders.
Gosh.
We've covered a lot of ground, I know, from little baby twinnies to Brooklyn Becka's.
It's been such a journey you really have.
Oh my goodness, I hope you're having a wonderful Monday. Thank you, as.
Always to our incredible team for putting this show together for us.
We're going to be back in your ears on Wednesday. Bye bye, Mamma.
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast.