Hello, and welcome to Mom and Mia out loud. It's all I'm actually talking about. On Friday, the twentieth of March out louders, I just want to offer you all an enormous congratulations. You are still listening to the number one show in Australia. We might have told you about that on Wednesday, but we're going to tell you about it again and again and again and again. Congratulations on your excellent taste. Congratulations and congratulations class.
You can say, and I'll take a little bit of credit because last time I was sort of like trying to head but my way into the celebration. Everyone's like, no offense, beat you won't there, you were there.
I can't take any credit because I wasn't here all affair.
Yeah, your vibes was always here, Yeah, always here. You were on holiday, but your vibes were still here.
Thank you, Thank you anyway, alauders, I.
Have one request from the number one show in the nation. If you love it, if you love us, wherever you're listening to this, there'll be a little way for you to show it. There will be a place where you can hit five stars or leave a little review. Yeah, saying we love our girls.
And also they're very attractive, thank you so much.
We're not really girls very attractive like the bridesmaid aging really well, lady. Anyway, if you would like to leave us over your five stars, we would love it. Anyway. Who else is with me?
Well, you haven't said who you are?
Who are so sorry? I've been talking to us a bit over excited. I'm Holly Wayne Wright.
You're also like, I need no introduction. The number one podcast in the country.
I'm Clare and I'm M N M and on Today's Agenda.
The best selling memoir that has us asking how much truth actually matters.
We have recommendations that include a TV show that made Claire cry, a movie that m can't stop raving about, and a literally eye opening beauty product from me.
And there is a substack titled the Unofficial List of Things that men should Never do. I'm immediately obsessed, and yes, I've created my.
Own list to add on. We're going to have a little barney about that, I think. But first, in case you missed it, your difficult friends are shortening your life. I'm just leaving this here in case you need a little nudge this weekend to cancel some plants a very fancy scientific journal called PNAS. I do not read that out loud.
I'm sorry that.
I didn't even realize that Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences PNAS, it's real, have published a study blah blah study blah blah, but experts labor labeling your difficult friends and family members as Hassler's is the official scientific term for it, Hassler's and saying they're literally aging you.
A couple of lines from this study. We investigate the role of Hassler's, say p NAS people in one's close social networks who create problems or make life more difficult, finding that these negative ties are not rare, disproportionately experienced by individuals facing greater social and health vulnerabilities and consequential
for aging. So basically, they're saying they're bad for you each additional Hassler, So every extra awkward, annoying person you have in your life is associated with faster biological aging with especially pronounced effects when that Hassler is a family member. So look, you don't need to have brunch tomorrow with Betty, who drives you crazy. She is ushering you to an early grave and you just need to say, so's Betty, I have to cut you off for my health. What do we think?
I mean, there's a lot of debate, isn't there about how we need a little bit of social friction and social tension in order to have community.
But not if it's aging myself.
And then we're told that it's aging us. And obviously, as the resident scientist, I went and read the entire study and it's legit like and it is as you say, Holly, it's not just friends, it's family members. And I thought what was interesting They make the point in the study that often the hasslers are the people who are closest to you, because they're the ones that you give the bandwidth to be annoying, Like if you had if you had an acquaintance who was like that, you just kind
of ignore them. But it's hard when it's your mum. So it's often these people who are really close to you. I do like that it gives you permission.
And we've got a name. Hassler's Ye, you're a hassler. You're not a hassler. M thank you so much. Are you going to cut off some hasslers?
I mean, it's very rare where I hear something new that's come up that has a lot of scientific backing on it, and I go wrong.
She lives universe, take side and shove it.
This is wrong because this whole thing is Also because I did read a lot of the science words in this piece, and I saw I saw the word chronic stress come up a lot. So they're comparing that some people who are hasslers in your life are adding to your chronic stress. And we know stress is a slow killer, but it is a killer. That's not the only thing
that's stressful. So what I'm worried about is that we could get someone who has all of these friends around them and then them just going you stress me out this way. I didn't like when you did that. That was a bit stressful. I didn't like when you did that.
That was a bit stressful. But also the same person could just have like a job that's literally aging them and that's the biggest stress in their life, and they end up dumping all their friends keeping this crappy job, and now they're still stressed out, going through chronic stress, and they've got no friends because I got.
Rid of them. Also, social support really really important for fighting stress. So I do think, m there are lots of confounding factors.
Get me a lab coat.
I've got this.
I'm just gonna get little badges made like Hassler. Just hand them out to my friends and be like, this is a present. It's a great compliment. Everybody around them will be like, stay away.
There's a book cover I have been seeing everywhere. Amelia's reading it, Me is reading it, and it's next on my list. It's called Strangers by Bell Burden. But before I've even had the chance to pick it up, I've seen some criticism circling for context Burden, who happens to be an heiress. She has descended.
So I just displayed so much about myself by giving a little snort through my nose and rolling my eyes. I'm very sorry, Bell Burden. I'm sure you're a lovely person. Not her fault.
Heiresses can write books.
Yes, she descended from the Vanderbilts. She wrote a viral. People are allowed.
To be heiress, discriminated Charlie inside voice. Sorry, we're not gLing, Claire. I was just trying to get through this one.
Sorry, Clara, please continue telling us about it, just because we're not heiresses. You know, one day we might be She wrote a viral essay for the New York Times Modern Love section, and that is the basis for this memoir. So it opens in the early days of the pandemic in twenty twenty, and she receives a phone call from a stranger who says, FYI, your husband is having an affair with my wife. And that's her husband of twenty years,
scary of her three children. He is a hassler. But the twist is she didn't know he was a hassler, because the other kind of remarkable thing about this story is that she says in this book that there were no signs, and so at first he says he's really sorry, and he is embarrassed, and the relationship is over. Then he sort of switches and says he doesn't want to be married, and then he becomes a stranger to her.
So that's the concept of strangers. It's been hailed as a memoir about betrayal and self discovery, but there are also people who say it's not entirely true or not entirely consistent.
Let me guess is one of them.
The husband, Well, weirdly, he read it and gave his.
Approved Okay, so he was like, you've got me. This is my penance, Please publicly humiliate me for lessons.
But he I think it was very much like the royal response to Prince Harry's memoir, which was like, recollections may vary my favorite Yeah, because it's just I mean, a truer sentence has never been spoken about life. But there are apparently discrepancies between what Burden wrote in the New York Times essay, what she said in interviews about
the book, and then what's actually in the memoir. One of those is the idea of there being no signs of the problems in her marriage, because sometimes she phrases it that you willfully ignored them. Sometimes she kind of brings up things that people are like that was a sign.
But to me, I'm life, Yeah, we're all inconsistent humans exactly.
I'm like, yeah, if I told any story about my life any number of times, it would change because that's the nature of language and perspective.
Yeah, but you're not making profit on it.
Yeah, true, I like, but I think even still, we don't want people to be totally rehearsed in exactly what they tell us. And your understanding of your own life evolves over time. But there's also this sub stacker came across, which is so detailed to the point of it was a little bit funny, where it goes through all of Burton's claims dissects them. And what's interesting is that this critic seems to be annoyed at Bellburden for not considering the perspective of her husband in.
All this, and even though he has and just like, go for it.
Yeah, And I'd just like to say that no one who's been dumped out of the blue is at pains to walk in their partner's shoes, like you have your experience of what happened, and that's the bloody experience. So there's also criticism about the dialogue in the memoir about how could you possibly have remembered those conversations, which makes me think that's just me.
People are so annoying. I'm sorry, but people are annoying. Let the woman write a book, exactly, Let the air s write a book.
Let her write her book and make a lot of money. I'm money fascinated by this conversation because I've just finished listening to the Walkers the Real Salt Path which Holly recommended a few weeks ago, seven part series about the best selling memoir by rainer Win, and you flagged when you recommended it. Holly that on the one hand, there are some very legitimate claims about the story not being true, or rainer Win misrepresenting her life for example, that's not
her name, just little things at all. But there are also things that seem really petty, and I'm not sure that they actually take away from the emotional truth of what she was trying to say. Holly, where do you think the line is?
I think we live in and it's all true crime podcast fault.
Right.
We live in an era where everybody wants to be a detective, and everybody likes to excavate on the internet, and everybody likes to prove people wrong and expose the truth. And we don't believe anybody about anything, so we're always digging, right. That's become a very just mainstream cultural thing now that we someone tells you something and you go, sure, I'm going to go check. I'm going to go check receipts
like that's a thing. A lack of trust in general, the thing that makes that really tricky atmosphere to drop a memoir in is a memoir isn't an autobiography. We need to remember that, right. A memoir is different. So it's not supposed to be a straightforward out of every single thing that's ever happened to you. The whole point of a memoir is it's a story from your life
that you're telling. It might focus on one particular period of your life or one particular relationship, or it might pick out different stories, but the whole point of a memoir is it's a like, it's written in an engaging literary way, telling a story from your life. Now, as we've already said, if I'm going to tell a story about something that happened to me yesterday, it will be my version of it, and then if I ask you and you were there, you'll probably tell a different version.
And that's life. It doesn't mean mine was wrong or yours was wrong. It means I came from my perspective, you came from yours. And you've got to give memoir and that level of recollection the benefit of the doubt in that someone's telling you their story, you know it with your eyes open going in. This isn't supposed to be an entirely fair documentation of events. This is Bell
Burden's story. Or another example of this would be last year I read and interviewed Liz Gilbert about All the Way to the River, which was her memoir about the death of her partner, Raya Ellis Elias Raya Elias, and that was a very controversial book that got a lot of crap because people said it was ungenerous to Raya because at the end of Raya's life she turned back towards her drug addiction. That is not a disputed fact, Like everyone who knows her and who is in her
circle knows that happened. But they didn't like Lizzie's telling of what life was like. But the thing is is only Liz knows what it was like to be the partner of that person in that moment, and she's telling her version of events. It's got her name on the cover, like it's to me, that's fair enough, right. The problem is when you shit on other people in your memoirs.
And I don't classify the Raya Ellis example as that because Liz Gilbert did not do that in my opinion, in that book, and she was also very she didn't give herself an easy writing that she talked heaps about all the things she'd done wrong and all her different,
you know, sort of issues. But if you are straight up just calling other people out and criticizing them and giving ungenerous descriptions of their role, that is difficult because you're putting the other person in a very tricky situation. I think like some celebrity examples of this would be
Prince Harry's memoir Spare Yeah. He famously writes in there about a time that him and William got into a physical fight, do you remember, And there was about a dog bowl and he fell over, and the fight wasn't about a dog bowl, but they're like wrestling in the kitchen and then a dog boll goes over and someone's pulling someone's hair and it's all really embarrassing for everybody.
And Harry tells that story, and Prince William, who isn't allowed to comment on such matters but through his people, has been like that never happened, Harry, Like it did not happen. Like that. That's tricky, you know, because you're like, in order to negate someone else's account, you've got to come out. You've got to say what really happened or to you buy it from your perspective, Then you have to go deep on it. You have to accept questions on the matter, and like, who wants to do that?
You know?
I also want to talk about the reader of this situation, because for non readers or people who very rarely read memoirs, reading someone's memoir is a big deal. I rarely read memoirs. I find them quite boring and self indulgent.
Well, some of them are brilliantly written, some of the most famous books in the world and memoirs, but then some of them are not, like Britney Spears, The Woman and Me not.
But like even like Britney Spears, like I think, like I've the reason. Ones I've read have been Britney Spears and Jeanette McCurdy's. And there's some like social clouds in telling people you've read a memoir, and you can be like, well, in Britney Spears's memoir you hear all about the stuff of Justin Tim Blake, and people are like, WHOA, she's a great example though she's very well read.
He wouldn't have liked that.
He wouldn't have liked that. But with the strangers a lot of the stuff that she said. So in the book she was like, there were no signs, But then she does interviews and she was like, there were some, so this could have been sign. So it's like her
going against her own word. And as a reader, if I were to read that memoir and I would have told all my friends about it and been like, there was no signs, no science, and then she's out doing interviews going here's a sign here, this could have been a sign, I would have felt betrayed, and I've been like, you are wasting my time for making me reader's book.
But don't you think that Sometimes, Like so, in an account of a marriage or a relationship, everybody wants a neat narrative, right, you know, the first question whenever anyone breaks up is what happened? And what we want is something really simple? She cheated, he was bored, you know, like we want something like that, don't we? And very
rarely is it like that. It's really often the story of a relationship, particularly a long relationship, will be a million little messes that then tip over to be the thing that upends it. So when you ask someone were their signs, and you're like, no, I thought we were happy. That doesn't necessarily mean that every day you were skipping
down the street holding hands. You might just mean there was the usual amount of shit going on, because in every relationship there is, and maybe when you're being questioned about that, you're going to reflect on it differently than when you're writing it out.
But a book allow you to reflect on that like a book. I feel like, because you're sitting down writing this book, you are reflecting. You should have all of that in there. It's not a social post. It was a social post of her going he cheated. I'm like, that's fine. I don't care about the science, but the scigence should have been in the book.
Well, yeah, I haven't read it, so it's very hard to be really specific about that example when you haven't read it. But like I think, I just think that we want really neat narratives and that's not what memoir is.
And I think what makes it really tricky in an age of the Internet and hot takes and you know, everybody wants to wants to post about it or have an opinion, is that stuff gets taken out of context.
So it's like, this might be an eighty thousand word manuscript, and I remember thinking this a lot about Lena Dunham's memoir all those years ago, very very controversial, and there would be a passage that just got taken out and totally ripped apart, and I thought, but that's completely devoid of all the context and all the context about who
she is and why she was telling that story. I do think there's a big difference between those sort of gray area inconsistencies that we probably all have and the serious fabrication of a story completely. So there is a big controversy going on at the moment with a book called The Tell by Amy Griffin. It was all the book Club Picks in twenty twenty five, so it came
out in March last year. Then this month it came out that she's being sued by a former classmate who says that Griffin's story of being sexually abused was based on assaults that this classmate had actually suffered at their middle school.
Well, that's an excusable ye to me. There's fraud. There's out and out fraud, and there are some very famous cases of that in memoir where people have fabricated everything from racial identity to you know to their background and
all those things. That to me is a much clearer cut and dried case, like if you're pretending a thing happened to you and it absolutely didn't, or you're pretending to be someone else, Which is one of the arguments about the Saltpath discussion, is that so I'm on the record of saying I read that book, I love that book. I still love that book. It's beautifully written, like it's a really well written, gorgeous book, which is why it
got so much attention. The argument there is whether the whole premise is now discredited, which is that she and her husband were in a very difficult spot financially and health wise, and they went off on the walk, which is a crazy decision to make, but they did do that.
That's all true, and then it sort of follows them through and the accusations about them are like, the whole thing is fake, and it's not fake, but it's just that a lot one of the motivations that she spelled out she either left out massive details, like the reason that they were in debt was allegedly because she's stolen money and got involved in this very complicated scheme, And whether or not her husband's illness is as serious as
she has portrayed it, but the story still holds. That's different to like I say, I grew up in a palace in London, and really I grew up in Manchester, you know what I mean.
I think the claim there that has that I feel the most uncomfortable about is Rayna Winn writes about her husband having a certain neurodegenerative and physically degenerative condition, and it really sounds like that might have either been exaggerated or he but.
We don't know that. Yes, but in a microsoft.
If that is the case, then I do think.
And that falls into the fraud cast.
Yeah, that falls into because the people who read that book also think maybe I can walk my way into health, and that's clearly not the case. This brings me back to the fact that some of my favorite books are fiction that's clearly based on a true story. Yeah, and I love it because you can take all those liberties
that maybe you're restricted from taking in memoir. So I just read EM's recommendation from the other Week Half His Age by Jeanette MacCurdy, and you read that and you go, she's had this experience.
Yeah, but you see sometimes that And that irritates me too, because if you write books, everyone always fiction. Everyone always assumes that you're just telling your story and you're not, Like, we have imaginations, right, So you take a little bit of this story, in a little bit of that story, and a little bit of this and you mix them all up at you and sometimes, I mean, lots of great writers write about things that they have no experience of.
So I don't think it's always fair to assume that, particularly women's fiction is always based on real experience, which is what people particularly like to say about women's fiction. Or well, clearly she did do that, Clearly that did happen. Yes, and you're doing the same detective works that the people who are doing who are digging and that you know.
What I mean.
Yes, but you're allowed. And so all fours is the other one where you go, this is clearly partly mirandigalized story. My book is the same. There are a whole lot of things people like, oh I remember when that happened. Yeah, And I'm like, yeah, And I wrote it as fiction for a reason because I know that I'm incredibly biased and the story would not have held up to scrutiny.
Out louders in a moment, the Unofficial List of Things Men and Women should Never do. No, it's not scientific, but I'm taking those truth out louders.
Hello, it's me and I've done another diary for you. It's a bit of an update some of the things I wanted to talk to you about. I'm not going to spoil it by telling it to you now, but I do subscribe episodes twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And if you like my instabubble that I don't do anymore, the diary updates have kind of replace them, except I can be a lot more honest and candid because it's
not on the open Internet. So if you're not already a subscriber and you want to hear, follow the link in the show notes to listen to me on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you get out loud five days a week.
What could be better than that?
So substacker Hannah Park published the Unofficial List of Things Men and Women should Never Do? And I want to say that I read some of the comments on this piece and a lot of people are angry.
I was a bit angry, but I also wanted to bring it to you like a cat bringing you something to play, because I was like and will love this shit. She has very strong opinions about what men and women.
Made my week and made me so happy. Before she gets into her list, she does say just letting you all know this is technically not true, like, don't take this as bible.
All the things she's like, I'm just having a lull.
I think all memboir should have FYI are true.
The queen said it.
So I want to also say I made my own list, not about what women shouldn't do, because I think women should do whatever they want to do, but things that men should definitely things had men should definitely not do. And I want to say I made this list sitting next to one of my best friends who works here, amom Me and Julian, a straight man, because I was
liked him. These are the things that you do that annoy me that I think men shouldn't do, And he got very annoyed at first, but then he got really into it and.
Also started adding to the list. So tell us what was on the original origins point.
Okay, some of these we agree with me and Hannah. Men who get a stomach ache.
Ye, men are allowed to get stomach No.
I think honestly women own that part of the anatomy, not only because of like period pain and that kind of thing, but I just think our stomach should be more sensitive.
Oh, you can just word it a bit differently, right, Like I don't want to hear a man going, oh, tummy ache. You can say something like I think I have appendicitis. That's fine, that's fine to say, and then we can figure it out as we go along.
Kidney Stone exactly. Think I have a bowel obstruction, Like, don't tell me that, but like.
That scientific we've only just started. Men aren't allowed to get hiccups.
Oh it's embarrassing. Why not?
Well, what do you like?
Stop it?
Just stop? What do you mean it's sitting there with what.
Were you drinking?
I get hiccups but you're that's fine, okay, man, just don't tick up? Yes, you're like, please remove yourself until this has finished. This episode, unfortunate episode is over.
Sorry again, men who use the stare master at the gym. This is one of my personal ones as well.
Why well, why it is going to be my question at your time? Is it? Just stop? Saying why you need to offer me a little tippit of why it's such a thick Well, that's my machine.
And also it's like if you want to do cardio, just run.
Oh I see on the treadmill like outside, because the machine is the treadmills also for women.
So the code is that the inside cardio exercise is for women, because why we can't exercise outside safely? Like what's the via stops?
It's all about just fine, true, can be fine.
Image of who's on a StairMaster at any given time is a cutout? Yeah, yeah, she loves.
Its about the but right yeh.
Drinking marcher, just drink coffee. Just stop it. Needing sleeping accessories to fall asleep.
Okay, my I have a note on this my husband, and I'm sorry to share this because it's such an it will he mind? No, We argue about it every day.
He wears.
It started during my matt leave newborn. All of that. He wears this sleep mask to go to sleep, that it's like this across his eyes, but then it also has white noise in his ears. It's also for the nights where he isn't getting up with Matilda so he can sleep through. It is the biggest ick and every morning he takes it off and I'm like, I hate it, and he's like, do you want to borrow my sleep mask? And I'm like, I will never touch them. It is just about yours.
Thank you so much.
Oh God, it's so poor.
Can't help themselves and stuff? Can they know?
Before I get into my personal list? Should I go through some of the things that Hannah says girls shouldn't?
Yeah? Have I not to ask? Why again?
Have a nickname? That's their last name?
Disagree? Love a nickname?
It's too browie.
Trying to think if I know any women.
I used to call Rachel Corbett Corbett all the time. There are some people in my life who are definitely just called by their second I think it's cool, but there's that really daggy am. I just old, is that what I think it is cool? I think it will.
I don't think you'll be able to get a boyfriend if you do that.
You should worry that.
Some girls who like grill or I guess it's an American barbecue.
Oh no, that's also cool. Do you know how to barbecue? Yeah?
Because I've seen my dad like carry like this, this machine.
I think it's filled with gas.
Yeah, I really despair.
I think I could flip a burger, like flip some chicken.
But I think what goes on inside into like the men are at the barbecue, the women are making the salads. Like, come on, I.
Think the men can start the barbecue and if they go to the bathroom, I can do some stuff on there. Okay, I don't understand the mechanics of it.
How the barbecue works is none of.
My none of my business. Women shouldn't be at home when the internet guy or electricity guy comes over.
What if you live alone? Like you?
Yeah, it's really.
Hard and I think I've been camped.
But I spent a lot of money on stopping my tap from dripping, and I think it took him like two seconds. My good, Yeah, your dad needs My dad should have been there.
Women are very in this world order. They're like very little helpless princesses, aren't they.
Yeah, it looks like it.
We like that.
Do we know the names of directors of movies?
Oh my god, my.
Head's going to fall off.
I think this has changed recently because directors of movies used to all be men, and that was boring. But now that we've got greta girl, got Chloe Joo and Emerald for now. But no, we are not just allowed to know about girl things. Okay, do you want to know about in my box? Because guy like.
You should know his name?
Okay, can I get into my list?
Please get into your list. And because one of the reasons why I brought this story to you, as I say, like like a little shiny cat toy, is because I think all the time about your bold declaration that you made on this podcast quite some time ago that men, unless they're famous. I think there was an I think there was maybe an out for famous men should never have a public Instagram account. No, that made my head fall off. I'm like, I didn't think that Instagram was only for women.
No, it is only for women. I mean the public Instagram accounts. I only why would a man have a public Instagram to show?
Well? What are they showing the same things that we're showing?
No, No, it's different, it's different. Okay, what else?
Okay?
Taking the tram?
Just walk? She's really, Oh, I don't know, a line bike. Maybe I don't know. I don't approve of this. You know, you wouldn't remember this, but Margaret Thatcher, who is famous conservative British Preme Minister, once made a declaration that if you see any over the age of thirty on public transport, he's a loser. Oh I that hurts me to my core. And this sounds like no. It sounds like you're saying no.
They can take buses, men, trains. They could take buses, trains, walks, linebacks, metros and trams are for girls.
Okay.
Vibes, drinking with the straw, Yeah.
They've had their teeth whitened and they don't want to.
Okay, on the list straws grave, Okay, holding a wine glass by the stem.
You're terrible. You're going to hell.
Also, how would the hand fitter like if your hand fits around them? Yeah, I'm on into that.
I'm sure I've selling this story before. When my son was little, I was obviously going really hard on like the whole rebel girls things for my daughter and you know all that, and so I was always like, you can be whatever you want to be. And one day little Billy, I think it was like six, he comes to me and he goes, mom, can boys be whatever they want to be?
Too?
I was like, shit, I think it never even occurred to me. And now I'm going to have to go home and say to him, yes, billy, except you.
Can't get on a tramp.
Wearing contact lenses.
Yeah, wear glass, wear glasses.
It don't look HoTT in glasses. They always look. That's what they get.
Driving with two hands on the wheel.
One hand on the steering wheel, one on the Yeah, have an accident.
That's too far, too far.
Blowing on their food if it's hot, just eat it. A little burnt tongue never hurt anyone. Oh, and like the way they get into water when it's too cold, Like if they're not just straight jumping in, don't get in the water because they come to climb.
And I really like manly, don't.
My favorite dud yell at my husband the manisphere.
Guys, we're talking about that the other day.
I yell at my husband all the time, being like men used to go to war.
I did to the ocean.
You can't even get into cold water.
Well there's my list.
Clad. Do you concur with this terribly gendered conversation?
Okay, broadly, I believe gender is a construct and we shouldn't fit into these binary kid categories and we actually don't. I am going to raise my daughter and my son exactly the same. But if I had to this light hearted segment.
Segment emphasis Also, I do want to say again a straight man helped me with my list, then this is.
What I would say. Hypothetically, Men shouldn't wear backpacks.
Agree, just kept things in your pocket.
You could not be what would a man have in his back Tell me right now?
On every day.
He's got a little backpack and then you put the water in it.
But they leave the house with his backpack.
What about if they're looking after a child and they need to put the nappies in there and stuff?
Is that allowed?
No?
I think maybe like a saxul or like hold a bag with your hand by your side.
Nothing should touch your shoulders.
No, no, no, but I agree. It's like your clothes, get pockets, owls, drinker pockets. That's why we need bag anyway, drink mescato?
What are you doing?
What are you doing? Wear pants made out of thin fabric like linen? Well like stretch he's in like did you see.
The needed rivalry boys on the red carpet at the Vanity fair? Pap Very soon.
I'll have to look at that, I'll have they break all the rules. And finally, this is really important. No compression socks.
Oh yeah, what about a long cold flag?
No?
No, but look what happened to Logan roy in succession?
True that it was meant to happen. No deal with the risk.
This is so good. What would you add to the list? Only really have one very strongly held feeling, and it explains, in my opinion, the end of Nicole Kidman and Nicky Surban's marriage. No man should spend more than three minutes getting ready to go out. That's it. Any man whose hair, whose hair requires wires, sings like I mean, yeah, sure, a bit of product, but like requires a lot of extra attention. I don't like it. Like, I don't like.
That, And I don't want him to have an opinion about his hair, you know what I mean. It's like, go to the hairdresser, that's fine.
I have opinions about your hair. That's pretty much the only place I draw the line. And like Harry Styles, I would excuse that. I would excuse that. But even so, like sometimes his hair looks like he's thought about added a bit too much. I don't really want people to think about it like, I don't want that.
I say men should just not have head.
You know, though, I'm being very holy now about this, because I'm all like guys, I wanted to do whatever they want. But when we were talking about the stomach akes, it made me remember a very unedifying incident when I was younger. I was going out with a guy who had a peanutalergy and I was really mean about it, and I'm so sorry to everyone in the world with
the peanutalergies and dealing with kids with penalogies. But it was a different time and we didn't and I specifically thought that men do not have foodalergies or special dietary requirements. They don't sit in restaurants and ask like, but what's in the car? My poor boyfriend, we went up quite
a long time. He used to always whatever we were ordering, like spaghetti bolonnaise, be like, is the peanuts that I'd be like, like, I was so awful, and he's like, I guess I'll just die, And I reckon that if that was one of my girlfriends, there is no way I would have been awful about it. I was nasty. And then one day, the poor man we were on whole day together in Edinburgh and he ordered a meal and he was like, does it have peanuts? And I
was like, forgot's fake? Can we stop talking about peanuts? And then he had a really bad clash and I was not nice, and I reckon that was my internalized sexism. So just be careful out loud as. Please don't cancel us for this conversation. Please very wrong and very funny. I may die of laughing. I believe you have.
Something else to tell us about. On almost every episode of this podcast, a bit of bts for the listeners, I am corrected on my pronunciation of something, and I like to think it's because I'm actually so clever that I learn most of my words from reading.
Oh Jesse says this, yeh Jesse's excuse whenever she mispronounces. She says, I've only ever seen that word written down, probably the scientific peen.
Ass, and therefore when I go to say it, I guess I'm just surrounded by U plebs. But I do get a lot of words slightly wrong. But today I learned there's another one to add to the list. An article in the Daily Mail begins Australians have been left stunned after discovering they may have been pronouncing one of the country's most iconic lollies wrong their entire lives. I'd like to challenge that. I don't think we're stunned. I think we're just like, we just don't.
Have a lot going on.
We're trying to avoid the really scary shit in the world.
What but that lolly is the humble what I would call chop cho.
I love Choppa chups red ones. When you've got little kids, you can like total excuse, like watermelon really good, a total excuse to get into the chops because you can give them to them for like, oh your is my pop? Oh shut up? One for me too, and it's a novelty.
The colon ones are great but apparently incorrect. We're all saying it wrong. Uh, it's actually pronounced super shut up?
Who says wrong?
Daily mail is never wrong? And I feel like there is new information like this all the time, and it may just be clever marketing, but I don't mind because, for example, did you know, according to a random article I found on the internet, Nitella is actually new teller.
It's been around pages. It's Italian, right, so you guys know that it's good when you say that. Now I call it Theella.
Yes, I think this is just kind of a giveaway about just where I exist, like socially. But Porsche is actually Porsche.
Did you know it was?
I don't think so.
Did I know? I would definitely say, oh, he's driving a Porsche.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I would say Porsche was a name.
Yeah, me too, And Porsche sounds really wanky. Everybody else except me knew this. This is another thing I've only read Hermes is omes.
Only people who need to know that. I know that.
I guess I didn't need to. And volts Wagon, but you say.
That the first time to make sure you're.
Clearly clearly wrong. Volts Wagon and I don't know where I get the t because there's no tea. But I'm like, volts Wagon is no volks Vagan because yeah, voed for audience.
Sorry it was too.
Loose to They're like geez IQs are dropping produced.
ID did a guy who said canapes instead of candidates, and it took me a long time to figure out what he meant.
Sometimes you say it as you know how you say some pronunciations a joke, like and someone will be like. It's called talk if you're like.
But now it looks like I didn't.
I'm being ironic. I genuinely need to know this because I heard someone say this years ago and I never kind of googled it. The word for you, for you, it's not fouryer, I'll meet you.
Oh.
People say ship again out loud as I apologize.
I think I've been saying both. Did I think there were two different things? No, surely not.
Let's move on.
The break.
We have some recommendations for your weekend ideas, something casual, something fun. This is my best recommendation. It's Friday. We need things to tell people about for the weekend. We're going to try and be smart. Please everybody. Claire Stevens, you're smart. Tell everybody what to watch this weekend.
So I saw a post from Lee Sales a couple of weeks ago.
She's smart.
I just go to the smart. We're on a good track, and she said that that night's episode of Australian Story had made her cry harder than any episode ever has.
Hold on it's a job to say no presents Australian.
Story exactly, but for her to say that, out of all the episodes, I was like, ooh, okay, you're in and so all the comment it got massive engagement. People are commenting, and so I sort of put it to the side because I was like, hmmm, I don't know if I can do with a big cry right.
Now, but sometimes you need one exactly.
So I put it aside for a couple of weeks. But then I knew I had to watch it because it's called Raising Richard, and it's about a seventy two year old Perth mum Didri Croft as she confronts the question of who's going to care for her intellectually disabled son,
Richard when she no longer can yes. And so what's incredible about this story is that this filmmaker, Andrew Wiseman, has documented their life for more than three decades, so from when Richard was ten, and both Wiseman and Croft really wanted to present an honest and raw but humanizing picture of Richard, which three decades ago was pretty frickin revolutionary. And so when Richard was younger, there were confronting public meltdowns, there was a bit of violence towards his mum when
he sort of was overwhelmed by emotion. But she really wanted to show that these things were not his fault and that there was a lot of nuance to his emotional experience. So what got me was that Richard's mum put him in a group home a few years ago because physically she was unable to care for him anymore. She's getting older, he's a big guy, and just in terms of the physical work of looking after him, she
couldn't do it. So she put him in care. Things looked absolutely great, and then it deteriorated and basically he was hospitalized multiple times, even though his physical health seemed to be okay. And what she's clearly dealing with is that he has no way of expressing what distressed him
or how he was feeling. And the reason this got me is because we've had a very similar experience in our family with my cousin in a group home where something clearly pretty rufic happened, and the fact that they can't tell you exactly what it was, but you see the toll them is just so devastating. So Deirdre, the thing I absolutely loved about this Australian story and about her is that she's not a martyr, and it's not
about being a martyr, and it doesn't romanticize disability. And she is currently because she's aging, she's currently filming all these videos for Richard for when she goes, because he obviously doesn't have an understanding of mortality of what happens after somebody dies. So she's filming all these videos just telling him that she loves him and she's proud of him.
And it's just I just sobbed and sobbed. But I think this is really important for people to watch when it comes to the question of what happens to people with intellectual disabilities as they become adults and as their caregivers become older and can no longer care for them. It's a big question for Australia and a really confronting one, and this episode.
Is just the story. Stories of carers are not told very often because it's seen as almost like a sacred duty that you would look after your child no matter what or whoever. But it's an enormous responsibility that comes with so much difficulty, and so any story that kind of shows that ye as well as asks these questions of like why is this always a personal responsibility? Is really yeah, Okay, you've I don't know, I'm going to have to save that for a particularly emotionally robust moment,
but it sounds incredible. I'm going to change the mood. I'm going to talk to you about my eyebags.
I know exactly what it's going to recommend.
So last Friday, my friend Emily Vernon and I were on a shoot. We were doing a shoot for Shkoda Shoda, and we spent the day like we got our makeup done because we were being very fancy. And the makeup artist who did us called Amy, and she was brilliant.
Makeupis are always brilliants. She only uses like K beauty products. She knows exactly what product you use on exactly the type of persons. Oh my god.
She was so great. Absolutely, And when you get your face done, you suddenly realize, you know, all the famous people were seeing on the red carpets and everything, like, nobody looks like that. I look almost like I could be on the Oscars Red carpet. After Amy's been at me for like an hour. Yeah, anyway, I look.
Like I had a what they called buckle fat removal.
I'll put a picture in em and I obviously took lots of selfies because we liked how hot we looked. We We're just like, yes, anyway, The point is not about that. The point is about that. One of the things is when you, if you're ever lucky enough to get your makeup done, I always like quiz for tips. So I'm like, what are you doing? What are you using? Blah blah blah blah blah. So two things that have changed my life from Amy my under eye circles. I
have never before used a color corrector. Do you ever use a color corrector? I do, and of course she do, because she's very clever like that. But I just my conceiler and I've got my favorite concealer I've recommended before. It's Lorel True Match. It's not expensive, it's brilliant. I use the serum one. But she's like, no, no, no, darlt with those.
Dark exactly how she talked. She's like, what are you doing?
She was like, you need to put color corrector on before you do the CONCEIALA And she told me about this one. I bought a bit of an exy one. It's a tart shape tape. I bought the peach one. But there are lots of June.
You can get the green and red, like different colors depending on your scale.
On your skin tone. And she said to me, you need peach. So I've started putting that on a little bit, letting it set in a bit before I put my conceil on, and I reckon, it's better, I know. And then the other things she did to me. And I'm not necessarily recommending this because I googled and there are are some downsides. But she taped my eyes open.
It's wild because you said this, and I was imagining you with like strings like coming from your hair and being a Kardashian, And then when I saw a photo, I was like, I can't see anything.
So she used those eyelid strips. Now they're really big in Asia where people might be trying to fix in inverted commas like hooded eyes. Right, Like, it's a very subjective beauty standard about whether or not your eyes should be hooded, but clearly for older women, your eyes become more hooded for many of us, right and basically you're like eyelid stuff down, get more hooded? What's like what you just It's just gravity, baby, It's just it's just
gravity doing its thing. It's just everything's just think of it as everything's just slowly slide brows. Look, it's fine. They're all just having a little chill. But some done a lot of work, a lot of word like lifting up and what the like, a lot of that, a lot of is anyway, and so they're slowly having little lie down. And what Amy did is she had this this island tape and you put it in like the crease of your eyes here, just really little and you can't see it, and you can put eyeshadow over it,
and it just immediately makes you like a bit more. Yeah, eyes open.
We didn't even realize she was putting it on you because we were having a conversation hit chatting away and I was like, what's that.
I'm like, look at me, I am emma stone up in here. And so I'm not necessarily recommending that, friends, but I'm just putting it out there that I learned a couple of things about my eyes that didn't involve a knife on the weekend on Friday. In fact, that was a very useful. So yeah, color correct. I'll put a link in I tape. You do you.
What have you got for a sem I have a movie recommendation that's in cinema's right now. I have been told by many people that I have the same movie and TV show taste as a nine year old boy, which is great, and this one fits right into that. So I rarely recommend movies where you have to go to the cinema to watch, because cinema tickets are so bloody expensive now. So this I want people to go see it because it is a cinematic masterpiece. It's Ryan
Gosling's new movie. It's called Project Hail Mary.
Really like Ryan Gosling? Is there any reason for us not to like Ryan Gore? Has he done anything anything we need to know? Problematic, troublesome? We are allowed to like him absolutely.
Recently Hard launched his wife.
Yes, I know, I love that. Yeah, I love They've been together for ages and ages and generally they're pretty chill about it. Yeah, you've never seen them together ever, and she's really fun and you're good glad. I'm glad we're still allowed to because I love it. Will La la la.
He's a good ex boyfriend mccadams and like he's just a cheerleader.
The date, Yes, that notebook.
They hate each other during film, and then they got together.
After it and then they're like nice. They're still like nice to each other. So, Okay, we've.
Decided a commission non problematic.
And his SNL thing the other week was very funny, very funny, very funny.
Anyway, this is like old school Ryan Gosling in action movie. So he plays this high school science teacher and the movie starts off with him waking up on a rock in space, not knowing who he is, why he's in space, what he's meant to do in space, and you see him kind of like figure out what his purpose really is.
Am a man allowed to go to space? In fact, I think they should all go.
Just go see what's health there.
It's like jury g but like.
We'll be down here fixing everything. You guys, go do your thing. Okays in spacelings in space, and it jumps back and forth of him on Earth just before going to space, so you kind of like piece together why he's there. Very early in the film. This isn't spoilers, we find out that the Earth is being the Earth, the Sun, the Sorry, this is a very scientif movie.
Please please take a science person with you when you go watch it the Earth sun is being eaten by a substance and no one can figure out what it is. So then Ryan figures out very quickly that's his job. That's the reason why he's in space, because he's a high school science stage. And then it just gets very very action y. It's very very cinematography. It's very very extra terrestrially.
Is he like the only human in it?
No?
Is it Ryan Gosling one man show? No?
No, there are other people around, but he's like the guy. It's just one of those really fun, fast paced movies. It's also gets a bit like Emoshi.
It sounds like something I need.
Yeah, you can take.
It's like a rules are allowed to go movies about space.
Girls are allowed to go to movies about space, and they're also allowed to go to space if they want to. It's up to them, are allowed to.
They do get a choice.
But it's just like such a fun movie. I would compare it to like a fun version of Interstellar.
Yeah, because Interstellar wasn't fun.
No, too bad?
Too much, too much is happening. You're not going to be sad after watching it.
What's it called again?
Project Hail Mary.
And it's in all good cinemas now also.
Themes right now you know what, go see it in the imax.
Take out a mortgage in a week of the interst rate right and screw petrol.
See this on the tramps. If you're a man, walk to the wal I'll be walking.
For a long time. Okay, Well, look we Friday. That didn't we? That was it was a bit loose. I hope everybody is having a good Friday. I hope you're all easing into the weekend if you get one. And thank you so much for making us number one show in Australia for the second month running. We will be back in your ears next week. Please thank our marvelous team, my friends.
Our group executive producer Ruth Divine, our executive producer Tasha Tasha, our.
Executive she has implored my name, I was.
Gonna say Tasha Sana executive producer Sasha Tanic, Our senior audio producer is Lea Porges, video producer is Josh Green, and our junior content producer is Tessa Kotovich.
Mama Miya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast Byey