Hello, and welcome to Mama Mia out loud. It's what women actually talking about on Monday, the twenty second of June. And I am Holly Wayne right, I'm Claire Stevens. Welcome back. Sorry Amelia, but you were off a bit.
Last week and I think somehow Loud has thought I'd had a baby and I was like, guys, like I honestly like I wish, but no, I was just sick and it was boring and I had to listen to you guys without fighting back. It was annoying.
I'm Amelia Lessa And here's what's made our agenda for today.
Olivia Wilde is finally talking about that cursed don't worry Darling pressed to her and why she inexplicably became one of the most hated women in the world.
The shit skirt is casting around for a new British prime minister to wear it. What you need to know about the mess of UK politics right now and what it might say about ours.
And I have a very simple, completely free way to start your day better.
But first, in case you missed it, So it seems that the Keith Urban Nicole Kidman divorce has taken a lovely turn.
Oh how nice?
Who would have thought this? It was about nine months ago that that split came out of the blue, didn't it.
At least I was in the Mumamea offices that day and that was just I think that was the biggest day in history.
Everybody lost their minds. Now, they obviously knew it was coming because by the time we heard about it, their settlement was almost done. So as far as we know, this could have been brewing for a while, but it certainly came out of nowhere for us. But it seems that things are amicable now because social media slutes know
these things. First of all, it was Nicole Kidman's birthday on Saturday, and Keith Urban actually made a story and put it on his stories and it just had text lower case happy Birthday, Nicole Mary.
Which makes her more relatable because I feel like every Australian woman their middle name is either Mary or Marie or Louise. Like I like that she's Nicole Mary.
And I think maybe one of the daughters like showed him how to do it. Yeah, like I'm not doing too much. Wasn't just a lowercase story. It wasn't a very good story, and their design it wasn't there was no design, and then the next day with design kidman posts for father's sakes. It's just been Father's Day on the other side of the world, and she had a split screen photo of her late dad and then Keith with his girls and wished all the good dadsy So things have gone nice?
Do I like this? That's interesting because I feel like it's very fraught about when and how you interact with X's on social media or in general, whether you reach out to them on their birthday.
What do you think? Do you think would you?
I don't believe it. I don't believe you can be amicable this quickly. I think there's tension, but I think it's very clever that they're pretending to be I think that's quite lovely. But it's like, don't pretend that there hasn't been any.
Drama, but don't you think that it's possible that all the drama happened? Or because apparently, if reports are to be believed, their settlement has been relatively stress free. They've both agreed to not go for alimony, not go for any spousal support anything like that. She walks away with her money, he walks away with his They've got a very straightforward custody agreement with the kids, which is joint, but she's primary parent and if reports as to be believed,
schorelous here she is dating again. Remember there was all the gossip about him. Maybe is she dating Simon Baker? I wish she was because that would be great.
But although I don't know, you don't know about it.
Apparently she's dating a businessman.
Oh that's that's a big Hollywood move these days. Reese has got a businessman on.
The Chairman of the Border MGM, and he's called Paul Salem. Allegedly he's divorced with four daughters.
And again regardless vibe here.
Yeah, yeah, so maybe things have just maybe Nichole's just like cool, let's get back to social media and I, you know.
He's been hanging out at mar Lago, So I feel like they're diverging in many ways at this point.
Oh wow, Well, Sunday, the daughter she unfollowed her dad on Instagram and April, so I think she might say that this Sunday.
I thought you were talking about Father's Day on Sunday. She did that Sunday, Yes, sorry, Sunday, you don't.
Miss the thing, Joe gest stating and checking out Sundays following.
She followed him again, unfollowed and followed. But I just think you can say, oh you want about the legal process, That's what I care about.
I've got another little bit of social media news from celebs, which is that Anne Halfaway is joining the ranks of celebrities who are pregnant well into their forties. She posted over the weekend in what looked like a kind of like Lily Allen coated Brooklyn Brownstone vibe type backdrop. She was wearing this very sheet cheesecloth number and it showed off. Dare I say she was flaunting a baby bump.
She is pregnant real estate agent over here with the brown style.
Sorry, it was very yesteryear coded right, this cheesecloth number that she was in. And now there's a lot of other celebrities who are pregnant into their forties right now. Natalie Portman is pregnant, she's forty five. Giselle was forty four when she had her latest and Cianna Miller, of course we've talked about on the show, was forty three. So I was interested to see what the story was
with Anne Hathaway's other children. I knew vaguely she had children, but she is very private about it, so I kind of had to dig a little. But it turns out her first child was born a full ten years ago. That's quite a spread, and then her second and twenty nineteen, and she's talked a lot about going through infertility and conception house, so it's very nice news.
I don't even know who her partner is. Same guy with all the kids, same guy, same guy. That's very private and he so little.
Fun story. I was in Positano, I'm going to say fifteen years ago, and I was standing at a bus stop and I.
Sorry, Impositano, but you were saying it a bus john a lot about the quality of my.
Holidays a few years ago, Yes, And I looked across the road and I went, that's Anne Hathaway and she was with the same guy that she's still with.
I googled the Italian fraudsters that was a great.
Before, same same guy, because I was like, I don't recognize yeah, and then when I googled him, I was like, that's exactly who she was with. And I was so excited. But this was this was pre kids. Pre everything, but no, I have been on holiday with Anne halfway you have.
Definitely this all buys into my theory that we're living in an age of agelessness, that like the longevity tech bros are all about, you know, not eating food and doing all that stuff to live forever. But the female version of that is extension of fertility. And I don't know if it's now just because I'm old, but now I'm like forties so young, you have so much time.
Yeah. One of the most bizarre realities of celebrity culture is that a story can completely take over the zeitgeist for weeks or months at a time, and then just as quickly as it appeared, it's entirely forgotten. And then when it comes up again, we're like, oh, yeah, that was bat sheet insane. So with the clarity of hindsight, often you can't work out why everyone lost their minds. And this is the case with the scandal of the Don't Worry Darling press tour with Olivia Wilds.
This was one of my favorite moments and pop culture ever.
I really enjoyed it. I saw a tweet that was like, it's q andon for highly online people. Yeah, and I'm like that's what it was for me. Like the closer you look, the more you found it.
I think Q and on is also Q and on for I take a p.
That's very true. So very luckily we got Olivia Wilde sitting down on Call Her Daddy last week to unpack all the details of the Gossip of the Press. Too are with Alex.
Cooper because apparently her new movie is really good.
Yeah, yeah, The Invitation and it's called with Sethrob.
I believe it. Her first movie that she directed was brilliant. Yeah, the book smart and I've always given her a lit I know credit.
And can we just acknowledge don't worry, Darling was an excellent film. I enjoyed it.
I didn't watch it.
That's the prob.
I didn't watch it. The controversy I say too much.
She's really smart, like on this. In this interview, she talks about how she's always wanted to direct her now she is a proper director. She's followed Greta Gerwick and all the rest of it. And one of the things that's really interesting that she says, though she says it's given her speaking of agelessness, she said she feels like she can relax. It's given her some longevity because otherwise you cast out at an early age.
Anyway, she's very talented. So in twenty twenty two, for those who have forgotten the headlines about the Cursed, don't worry, Darling pressed who are were everywhere and the drama kicked off in April when Olivia Wilde, who directed the film, was at CinemaCon and she's on stage talking about the movie and she is served custody that were from via her ex Jason sidekis ted Lasso.
Yes, that's why I will never believe he did it on purpose, because he's Ted Lasso.
Yeah, it really challenged a lot of what we thought about that man. But so she served these papers and in that moment she was seen as a bit of a victim. People went, that would be absolutely awful.
It's unquestionably a shitty thing to do in front of all these people, just derail her whole professional moments.
So bad. But I think it really did put a spotlight on people being like, oh, she was with ted Lasso and now they're no longer together and they have kids together, so people kind of had that in their minds. Then later in the year don't worry, Darling comes out and it was largely overshadowed by a whole lot of
other drama. So Olivia Wilde was dating the lead actor, Harry Styles, who was ten years her junior and currently Florence Pugh, who was the lead actress, was pissed about it, and this there did actually seem to be legs to the fact that Florence Peugh was pitched. She made a few statements. She went to Venice Film Festival and didn't say anything, didn't give any interferee.
She switched around with an apperl sprits in hand and just refused to speak.
Which is how I prefer to express my exactly exactly. So there definitely was some tension. And then of course we had uh the spitting incident, which was Harry Styles definitely looked like he spat on Chris.
Pine and do you think that he did?
Okay, there is no way that Harry Styles spits, I asked, if you look at that foot, it is the optical illusion of the century. He said, Remember, Jesse and I did a canceled episode on it, and we said, it's like ghosts.
It's more fun to believe. It's more fun if you just believe that Harry Styles did spit on Chris Pine and then Harry Styles made joke about It's like, this isn't for you to joke about, this is for us to joke You shut up. But now four years later, Olivia Wilde has spilled everything she's did very quiet.
But we're a good reason because she was hard.
You know who's not happy that she's choosing now to speak up. Yes, she has a movie coming out, but also Jason Zadekas has new season of ted Lars and all of this is undercutting that every man, good guy image that he has worked so hard to present in ted Larso wow, I don't think so well.
Olivia Wilde makes some very interesting points about the conversation around her relationship with Harry Styles at the time. They went out for for a few years and then broke up. But this is what she says about the age gap.
It's almost like the happiness made them mad.
Like I would like go to shows and dance and people were like, oh, oh good gee, You're like, dare you dance?
I think that it's we police women's morality to such a different degree than men that in especially mothers, the fact that you were kids, you're fuck oh yeah. So I think that there is a expectation, especially as a mother, that when you go through that public separation with the kids involved, you are supposed to be self sacrificing and you need to be sexless.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, preach. Every word of that is true.
But that was mostly call her daddy speaking.
Yes, she was kind of putting it more into words because Alex Cooper asked Olivia Wilde why she thought there was so much anger about her relationship with Harry Styles, and Olivia Wilde said, it's sort of the parasocial relationship people have with him. But she also was like, I don't know, Like why do you think? And so I thought Cooper gave a really interesting analysis of that, Amelia, Why did we have such a visceral reaction to a
relationship with a ten year age girl. I think Harry Styles is in his late twenties.
He was twenty six, she was thirty six.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's.
Just the mother thing. I think age gap relationships post Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky in the late nineties, I think we have developed this weird, very prudish morality around age gap relationships whether they be between an older man and a younger woman, or a younger woman, or an older woman and a younger man. And the proof I have of this is that there's this new show on Disney Plus called Alice and Steve. It is a perfect, one of those like perfect little capsules of a show
that only the Brits can do. It's only six episodes, and it's six perfect little half hour episodes, and it's about Jermaine from Flight of the Concords, who is embarking on a relationship with a twenty six year old woman who is.
The daughter of his best friend.
His friend, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll get to that. I think it's important on its so but yeah, and it's like sort of like it's been built as like a wrong colm, which I hadn't heard that phrase before, but it's very true for this show. It's like that kind of awkward, cringey humor that you can't look away from. I just loved it. I ate it up over the course of like forty eight hours. But then I you know how you watch a show and then you want to see what the reviewers think.
So I saw googling around and the first thing that comes up is the Guardians review, and I'm sorry, but to me, it encapsulated our inability as a society to talk properly or rationally about this topic. It was a review written by Lucy Mangan, who is a great TV reviewer. I love her reviews generally, but she kind of just spins out about this premise, and she writes that the poor man we are led to understand is not a predator.
He's just a bit weak and lonely, and never asks the question of whether inexperienced people are ever in command of a situation involving experienced people of any kind. So basically, as a society, we seem to have decided that inherently, if you have an age gap, regardless of whether it's a man, again, regardless of which gender is in which power position, it can never be a relationship that's anything other than wrong or perverted. And I just think that
that's insane. Twenty six is a full grown adult who is perfectly capable of consenting to this relationship. Is it a good relationship? No? Are they compatible? Not in the slightest But the.
Best friends started dating your daughter? Yes, Well, yeah, that's the premise of the show.
But to say that the concept in itself of someone being more experienced than someone means that there is an inherent and wrong power dynamic. I just think is like a very strange new morality emerging.
I I think we've always been totally fine with age gap relationships when it's men and women. For a long time, older men younger women. That was the norm and every movie you've ever seen when you think about it, right, I think it's only recently post Me Too, we've started pushing back on them with any actual veracity.
Like well, but the fact that Jason Sudeikis was dating somebody who was younger.
And no one even meaned it.
I didn't know that. That's the first I had heard when when Olivia Wilde said it in the Call a Daddy interview.
I think that a lot of the kind of way you feel about age gut relationships, Like many things in life, it's often about your life stage and where you're at, because I think that I don't think that generally we think that age gat relationships full stop are wrong, But you can see the power dynamics so much more clearly from later in your life.
But I want to keep the conversation around a twenty six year old is not apparently capable of deciding that she wants to have a fling with this guy as much older than her. And the thing is that all relationships have power differentials, like no one enters into a relationship entirely equal on every footing. For instance, I'm a very very bad driver because I learned in my thirties.
I'm very inexperienced when it comes to driving. I'm married to someone who's a great driver, who's been driving like a normal person since his teens. That's okay. There's different power dynamics and relationships.
Oh, I agree, once you're an adult, do what you want to do. But I think that as older women in particular often get a very cynical about the men in their lives who, strangely their girlfriends are always twenty five. It's like no one is suggesting that that twenty five year old doesn't have agency. It's more it says something about you if you're a man in your fifties and
you only date twenty five year olds. I mean, look at how we all laugh at Leonardo DiCaprio, right, And so I think I do think it's true that Olivia Wilde, when you listen to this interview and they go through this crazy year, we burnt that woman.
At the stage the public shame.
It is one hundred percent true. She was dating our favorite internet son. You know, she was older than him. What a predator. She had young children. She makes a point that not long after the divorce, it was thanks and all the custody arrangements were fine, and it was Thanksgiving and she was home with the kids and Sedukis was in Costa Rica with his young girlfriend, and she
said that was fine. I knew he was there. Everybody but the press had the pictures of him and his young girlfriend on the beach, and they were all like, how lovely for him, isn't that great? I would like to see what they would have said about me if it was a national holiday and I was not with my children frolicking on a beach with Harry Styles. I think we know what they would have not.
And I agree with that she was burned at the stage. I guess I'm just saying that I think you're right that post me too. We're casting that judgment more on men than we're used to, and maybe that's a good thing, but I'm just observing that that's changed since say the nineties, when feminists everywhere stuck up for Bill Clinton because they said that Monica Lewinsky was perfectly capable of consenting as an intern to engaging in sexual acts with the president.
I think what's interesting about the Olivia Wilde story is that now with the benefit of hindsight and kind of the sting coming out of whatever, we were so furious about at the time, which feels so ridiculous. Do you think it was I think we were angry. We were angry that she hired Harry Styles and that she they were spending a lot of time together in the trailer, Amelia, and that.
Was probably making Florence uncomfortable. Like I get Florence's side in this. I think in a workplace dynamic, that's not easy.
Yeah, so I think we were mad about that. We were mad, but we I think we were mad that he's just an innocent little boy and this woman who's a grown up, divorced woman. Yeah, divorced woman. Remember the story about about the salad He brought salad dressing Styles a salad over to her house. This came from the nanny brought a salad over to her house, and Jason Sadaikis was so sad about it that he like laid in front of the car or something to like stop her.
It was a messy split. It was a really really amating and then the salad dressing recipe went viral. It was the one from Harper Nora Refron's one from Hartburn. This is a deep cut. But then I think we made that salad dressing, maybe brought it into a podcast, like the world was obsessed with this. I think it was also that she it didn't follow the split the trope that we like, which is like man leaves woman woman very sad. Yes, this was like whatever happened between them,
she did not seem sad. She seemed like she was living a great life. She was releasing a movie, she was dating a hot young man. She was you know, at parties, at concerts, dancing, as she says, And we were like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is not how this is supposed to go.
That's true.
And I think we also looked at Jason Sadeikis and we were like, how dare you do that? To ted Lers, which was.
There was a big parasocial thing about yeah, like Jason today because is tedlar so.
Yeah, and in hindsight that was ridiculous because he's not.
That's just a character to your point about it's more fun to believe the spit. Yeah, Alex Cooper in that Call Her Daddy interview does say did Jason Sedukis serve you those papers on stage? On purpose? And Olivia Wilde says, I have to believe that he did not. He says he didn't. He's very upset about it, and I have to believe him, which isn't quite the same as saying I believe him.
No. I read some interpretation that said she's very clearly saying that he knew. Is that how you understood that? Yes?
But as she says, I have to believe that he didn't because I'm parenting kids with him, and everyone who's ever been through a messy split nose and you've got kids involved, at some point you just have to get on with it, right. But that is a pretty unforgivable thing to do if he did do it.
I don't think that they're wishing each other happy birthday on Instagram.
No. After break, the shit Skirt is looking for a new owner.
Who doesn't want a free and easy way to improve their life. I know I sound like a telecommercial, but hear me out this. This is actually well on my mind. There's an artist called Tom Sacks, and he has a very simple rule that I cannot stop thinking about since I learned about it last week. Before you touch your phone in the morning, you have to do or make something yourself. He calls it output before input or OBI. And weirdly, he's developed an up with Nike around this concept,
which sort of seems to undercut the whole point. But we're setting that aside. We're just going to focus on the idea of putting something out in the world before you start taking in the shit skirt and all the other terrible news. And apparently this helps you because you become more creative, you become more focused. It's especially good to do on days and you have a lot of
stuff going on. And you can also try it in the evening before bed, because apparently it really helps you to remember your dreams, what.
Sort of things, what sort of things should I be doing?
Okay, here are some examples that Tom gave draw sing which I wake up seeing if you were sleeping with someone next to you potentially would annoy them a one minute plank, which I kind of was my favorite because it sort of seems the most tangible and least insane thing to do. Dancing little macarina or this is my favorite. Touch clay. Just get out some clay, make a little pinch pot. You're good to go. Which one are you going to do? Holly dancing?
For sure? This morning I got up at five because it's Monday, I come to the city I got. I had to get up at five to catch my train. Can you imagine if I'd have gotten up at five just put some tunes on, just like I had a big party in my bedroom and then just for one minute, and the dog would have been like, sorry, just out putting before I put back. So let's give that a go next week.
Are you going to just keep a little bit of clay by your bed? Yeah?
Really get my creativity out first thing. I have seen so many versions of this that I guess because we're living in an age where we're getting an unprecedented amount of input, Like we're just we're constantly reading, watching things, just constant stimulus that we should be that there needs to be an overall balance as well that it's like you should be producing more than you in jest, But how about when you're tired or lazy or can't be fucked? I nobody wants to see what I do with Clay.
No one wants No one wants me to sing. It's just I'd like, would it make my life better?
Sure?
But so would me also journal. That's some other idea. Look, I should be clear. I think I learned about this last Thursday. And have I done it even once? No, I haven't, but it's a dream.
Yeah, I'm trying to think if I've done it accidentally.
No. I feel like people who have cats sometimes can do this because as a former cat owner myself and I love cats, as I hope out louders. No, I know in this day and age, it's kind of stigmatized to say you love cats. Anyway, that's another topic.
She's really good out on a limb.
A cat often vombits first thing. That's their version of output before input. Just throwing that out there as well.
I often create a cup of tea first thing.
In the morning.
Oh that's what I did.
Yeah?
Yeah, there go that works.
There you go to out louders, maybe you can show your output before imput, Yeah, before input, I'd love to know what people do.
Actually, that would be really helpful.
Moments like this don't come around often. In fact, in more than forty years of reporting politics, I don't remember anything remotely like what is happening right now. Right now, I can't say to you with any confidence who will be the Prime Minister of the UK in a fortnight, as that general election is coming very soon.
You're joking, Not another.
One, another one, yes, another one, friends, It's pretty likely that by the UK morning so hour tonight, the UK will have a new prime minister, or at least a new prime minister in waiting.
Output before yes.
A minute, that Kirstahamer wakes up on Monday morning, hopefully, well not hopefully, probably his first output will be to sign a resignation letter. Why do we care? Well, for two reasons. Who gets to wear the shitskirt of post Brexit Britain is a bit of a running scene on out Loud. Several years ago we did a whole analogy about how trying to clean up that mess was like somebody trying to get shit off the skirt and who
got it passed around? And that sort of became a phrase for us to use when we know that something bad, somebody's about to get handled something bad. They're about to be putting the shit skirt on.
Who had it for kind of the longest. I feel like Theresa May had.
The reason May was the original shit skirt where Liz Trust wore it for a very short amount of time. Boris Johnson had it obviously for a while there. It's been passed around quite a lot. In fact, if Keir Starmer gets rumbled, is that the word I'm looking for, tumbled rolled, whatever we want to say, tray he I think he'll be the sixth British Prime minister in ten years, so then mearly as good as Australia were there for
a while at getting rid of them. The other reason why we care is because what is rattling conventional politics in the UK is kind of eerily familiar to some of the things that are going on here, and also because it is batshit crazy, as anyone who has seen the pictures over the weekend of probably the next UK Prime minister standing next to a bin and a fox on a stage. Well, no, we'll get to that. I'm going to try and explain as quickly as I can. What has happened. The Prime Minister of the UK is
a man called Kia Starma Serkis Starmer. He used to be a human rights lawyer. He used to be incredibly well respected.
Top human rights lawyer. As Bridget Jones would.
Say, indeed, he's got very he's actually got quite darcy vibes, except not as handsome, but like as in.
If Colin First was Prime minister, no Onel would be rolling handsome.
But he has that sort of buttoned up thing going on that people outside the UK think that men from the UK are like that, when in fact they're all kind of drunken shouting at football games. But anyway, we'll get back to that. He's very unpopular. I think he's popular. He's popularity at the minute stands on minus fifty seven percent.
Wow, so that means like more than one hundred percent of people are just like nah, exactly.
And the thing about that is two years ago, a bit less than two years ago, he and his Labour Party won the general election in a landslide, like a very very decisive landslide, so they held a really significant majority. Right Anyway, he's very unpopular now because Britain has all kinds of problems and he is generally seen as being ineffectual in dealing with them. Enter the most popular man in British politics. He is the mayor of my hometown.
Oh wow, Andy Burnham Manchester mayor aka King of the North right, right, So he The thing that's interesting about him is he's run as a scrappy insurgeon, but actually he's only ever been a politician. He's one of those. But he has a very personable aspect. Right. So if Keir Starmer is buttoned up and polite, Andy Burnham never wears a tie, can talk to real human beings in the grand character of No, he's not because he's not a badly. He's not a badie.
He's what's the Australian equivalent, vibe wise, shit, that's tough Bob Catter.
Who's a Titian in Australia who can talk to real human beings without appearing really awkward. Yeah, we'll come back to that. Yeah. So he's the mayor of Manchester and very very popular labor person and lots of people have said he's who should be challenging Kirs Starmer for the election because people like Andy Burnham, and they don't like Kirstarmer. But there was a little problem, and that's that Andy Burnham, as the mayor of Manchester isn't an MP. He's not
a member of parliament. He can't go into parliament, is.
He like in an American analogy Zora and Mandani the mayor of New York like a mayor who everyone loves.
And he's done great things for Manchester, right, I mean not everybody thinks that, obviously, but he's fixed He's shown that he can fix some difficult problems. He's brought back the buses into public ownership and they actually work and run on time. He's encouraged development of the city without selling everything off. Like he's seen as a good dude, right generally speaking, not by everybody of course. Anyway, problem was he isn't a member of parliament, so we can't
challenge Kirstamma not so much of a problem. We just tap another politician on the shoulder and say quit so that I can run in your seat, therefore entering politics. Coming back to challenge.
So they just engineered a biologic They just completely engineered a bio Who was it who got the tap on the shoulder. Were they just publicly No, he.
Was fine because I think he knew that the greater good was being.
Served stiff up on it.
But who knows what will happen after if things fall apart, which they probably will anyway. Another key piece to this is they had to choose an area of the northwest of Manchester. It's in the Greater Manchester. The area they chose that was having a bit of a problem with the far right. So this will sound familiar to many. But the insurgent party in Britain at the minute, and many Poles say the preferred PM is actually the party
called Reform, run by Nigel Farage. He was the guy who really wanted Brexit and then when it happened, fucked off to it.
It's easy to remember because the name Nigel Farage sounds like the villain in a nineteen eighties.
Children's movie, and many people they would think that was apt. But also he's charismatic and controversial, ring any bells. He is funded by a particularly controversial billionaire. The Reformer picking up lots of defectors from the traditional Conservative Party ring any bells, and a lot of the candidates who stand for Reform wouldn't really withstand a bit of a deep dive on their Twitter accounts, do you know what I'm saying. Yeah,
there's often quite a bit of problematic stuff there. So Burnham had to prove the mayor of Manchester had to prove that he could stand up to a reform voting populace and win, because that's what the government of Britain
needs to do. And so Makefield, which is the place that he stood in the recent local elections, they voted reform, so very much reform leaning place, and Andy decided to go in there and not sort of scrap with all the angry, anger making issues that reform were going in on, but play happy warrior and sort of also disassociated himself a bit from the labor parties. It was all vote Andy, believe in Andy, and he smashed it. He won with
a big majority. The far right was split into two parties, but even if you added them together, they came nowhere near him. The Conservative Party, so our version of the UK version of Liberals didn't even really poll They got like two percent, which shows also what's going on there.
Who had this seat before reform was on the ascendencied labor labor Okay.
So it's a labor it's traditionally a labor seat, but one of the kind of seats that is falling from traditional parties to the minor parties, which is also something that's happening here. Is this the seat where the Reform guy had a tweet that said I'm sorry, I'm sexist. Yes, okay,
exact seat. Yeah, the reform guy was campaigning in England shird a lot, which is a whole other issue where lots of English people like I want my flag back please, but and he it was proved to be a bit problematic, but that was generally considered a little bit like some of the one nation MPs here like that's just what knock about guys do. So he did get a bit of that. Andy Burnham wipe the floor with him. So now he can re enter politics and with the Bin and the Fox on his side, he can march down
to London and get rid of kir Starmer. So it's basically an engineered from within the party way to topple the Prime Minister.
Right. One detail in this which you know, it's interesting to look at comparisons with other countries and Australia But one contrast I'm seeing here potentially, which is also interesting to look at, I think, is that this was a labor stronghold that became a reform stronghold. And what we are seeing in Australia so far as yes, people who have voted for all the for both major parties as well as even potentially the Greens and the Teals are
deffecting to one nation. That's what they're telling polsters. But at the moment it does seem like it's more something that is being that it's support from the Liberal Party that is bleeding to one nation. Do you know why in the UK it's more of it across the board.
Thing my view is they are further down the line from where we are now. Obviously there's loads of differences between these two countries. UK population is much bigger, much more diverse, lots of I mean, there's a lot of difference. It's much more urbanized, although well you know, many more cities. But the thing is, when reform first came up in Britain, they were taking from the right. They were like seen as a Conservative party alternative.
And this is pre Brexit we're talking right now, No, this is post.
And then what's happened is that vote has begun to chip away at everybody. Right, so I think that and of course this also I'm not making a super neat comparison, but because again the places are so different, but there is a firm argument that what is happening in Britain, they're just further down the line that we are, you know, traveling towards the polls. Here one nations on the rise, particularly outside the metropolitan Area's charismatic leader, well funded by
a private sector. There's a lot of similarities. And so they say that Albow is looking at Burnham and going I want to be a happy Warrior too, because that's obviously the way to fend this off problem is happy Warrior goes down to Westminster today. He says to Sir Kia, I want your job please, and Sir Kia so far I said no, you're not having it. In fact, he even tried to stop Andy from standing the first time around. He did block him and he fell to the Greens.
He says, look at the polls, I'm really popular, and everyone says, sir, your minus fifty seven percent.
It's not a plus fifty seven. So Kirstarmer has been like trying to push Andy Burnham away for ages. But now the King of the Nord's coming down and now all the reporting as we're recording today say that Keir Starmer has been convinced it's inevitable.
Pass Andy played that, like, what does he say? Does he say I want to be prime minister?
He says it's time for a change.
He says change.
He says it's time for a change. And interestingly, you know, as I said, he's it's sort of personality politics too, which we know from America and many other places, is a trend that we can't seem to push back. Although we were talking last week about how maybe it's fading with that Obama guy that we don't know anything about. This is very much personality politics. A lot of people who voted for Andy Burnham in this election would not
have voted voted for another labor candidate. They like him and that's a real challenge for politicians because a lot of them, no offense politicians are not that likable.
Do we think that that the personality politics is what's happening with one nation and with reform in the UK, because reform similar to one nation, they have a very few. There are only very few members of that party. There's like eight us.
Well, there are an increasing number at all times because in that particularly on the local level, but on the on the national level at the moment there aren't very many. Yeah, but Poles are pointing towards the sweep. The problem. The issue is for that, with the exception of some of the people who have deferred from other parties, the promer conservatives a bit like how here Nats like Barnabie Joyce
have joined one nation. There's a vast amount of inexperiperience there, which is like a strength and a weakness, because you can be I'm not one of these career politician idiots. I'm an ordinary person and I can talk like ordinary people. But then there's also like a but do you understand how things work? And they're like not really.
And Andy is a career politician, really he is.
But he somehow has managed to like shake that off.
That's so interesting.
So his critics will say he's been he's been part of a government before, he's been around for ages. He is one of them. But he has sort of convincingly made a case that no, I'm different, I'm changed I'm the insurgent. What will be interesting about the shit skirt? Though Andy Burnham famously never wears a suit, he never wears a tie. He is a gen X dude, he's fifty six. His campaign ads were full of oasis like he likes to be like brick CP pop dude.
He wear a ways to say like yes you can have our music and.
Albo all the big Manchester bands and he wore so he always wears a T shirt and like a bomber jacket. You know how politicians have like a uniform and when down Andrews only ever worn north face. Yeah, and so the thing is it's still in the UK. Now, if you're going to go into Westminster, you have to wear a shirt, a jacket and a tie. And Andy Burnham don't do that. So maybe the ships he's going to wear the ship skirt and a shirt and tie to just keep reinforcing his man at the people vibe.
That did get some conservative politicians up in arms. Wearing a skirt get them very very up.
It would be very King of the North, like all the way from Scotland kind of a wearing kilt. Anyway, that's what's happening.
I just say here, just get some clay. I think play today Monday morning clay. Then you can handle things.
Yeah, but it is it is fascinating that this wave because the big win for labor in the UK that was around about the same time that Australia had a labor win and Canada there was there was like a wave of it, and it seems like there is this kind of turning point now and it's interesting that it is that it mirrors in all different parts of the world what the mood is. I'll be very, very interested to see what happens with this and what our labor party learns from it.
Talking about what Alba might take from this, Claire is that one of the reasons why people have turned on Starmer after that big win is that he's seen as being nice but ineffectual and of flip flopping changing his mind on big policies. And again, does that sound a little bit familiar about how people are feeling about Albo.
After the break, there is chaos at King's Court because Harry and Megs are coming to town. Harry and Megs are rolling out the suitcases in Montecito because they are preparing for a trip to the UK with Archie and Lily in Toe and it is happening next month, which I hate to tell you all, is coming up remarkably soon. It's almost July. Where is chaos at court about how to deal with this visit? Absolute chaos. On the one hand, you've got two camps. On the one hand, you've got
King Charles and what you might call the Doves. These are the people who say, let's just get back to normal. Charles wants to give Harry and Meggs a house to stay in while they're in the UK. He has offered them security. He has offered them, in fact, a security envelope, as some of the reporting goes, which sounds really nice. And then in the other camp you've got the Hawks. This is led by William. They see the trip as pernicious,
they see it as emotional blackmail. And it must be said they are more in touch with public opinion that camp, because for the most part of the UK, the only people less popular than Kirstarma are Harry and Megs. So here is the problem. Charles has offered the residents and the security to Harry and Megs, and that is why they are bringing the kids. Because previously Harry said he would never bring the kids to the UK unless he was given security, So the security and the residents are happy.
So in that sense, it seems like Charles and the Doves have won. But Charles is clearly still profoundly unsure about how he wants to play this visit, because there is very mixed reporting on whether he will actually even meet with Harry and the family when they're in the UK. And the Hawks meanwhile a warning that by offering Harry and Meghan, the residents and the security, they are setting a very dangerous precedent for the rest of Charles's reign. Holly,
who is going to win out? And do you think that Charles could really not meet with Harry and Meghan after he's given them a residence for their trip.
No.
I think Charles is one hundred percent going to meet with Harry and Meghan, because I think that's what all of this is about. I thought this Hawks and Doves thing was really interesting because I reckon in all of our families, we'd have hawks and doves. There are people who are like, let bygones be bygones, let's forgive and forget and move on. And there are people who are like, never forget.
And in friendship groups, dare I say it right?
And I think that that's really relatable in lots of ways. But I think that while the king is still the king, so while Charles is still ultimately the power, his say goes right. So I know William's pissed off, and I know William's getting a lot of influence because everybody knows that he's going to be king soonish, But right now it's the dad who gets to say, boys, this is what we're doing. And what we're doing is we're going to let them come. We're going to make sure they're safe.
Imagine if they came and something happened. Imagine. So it's the sensible choice. He So we let them come. We don't celebrate them. We don't like bring them out on the balcony and have you know, parades in the street or anything, but we let them come and do their stuff.
Harry allegedly is coming for an Invictus one year out countdown, and we make sure allegedly apart from the you know fact that he wants to come and stick it to his brother and we'll get on with it and you don't have to play now, you don't have to come to tea William, but they're coming. I think that's a sensible choice.
In a way. It's interesting timing because Charles doesn't really have that much to lose, like William's gonna take over. It won't be that long. People in terms of public opinion, people quite like William. So he's allowed to have his line in the sand about Harry, which is quite clever again for his own popularity, because it mirrors what the British public think.
But I don't.
I this makes me a little bit more sympathetic to Charles that he even though it is not what people in his camp necessarily want, it is not what the public want. I kind of like it. And the fact that he wants to.
See his grandkids he does. It's the most relatable thing that's ever happened. Like he wants to see his grandkids. He famously said, it's even in Harry's books, So even in Harry's unsympathetic telling that when Harry and William were really fighting hard, he was like, boys, please don't make my final years a misery, and they are doing that.
But the thing is, I really think that there's a big schism emerging between William and Charles. And the reason I said that is because you said it may not be that long. But by all accounts Charles's counts, the treatment has been successful to the extent that we can say that it's been successful. He's looking at potentially another
fifteen years. There are some longevity genes in this family. Meanwhile, William has been briefing constantly along the lines of when I am king, which is very offensive to Charles, because you know who sat by silently through his mother's historically long ragn never briefing of what he would do when he was king, was Charles. It's really rude of William to be doing this.
People on William's side, like the Hawks are the ones who are speaking to the Daily Mail.
Yeah, and they keep staying in trouble. And Charles, meanwhile, is like, I've waited my whole life for this. Give me my potentially my up to fifteen years of actually being king without constantly undermining me in the press.
I think that's fair enough. I think it's one of those things where you can kind of see all signs. Because William, i think rightfully, is the most hurt by what he sees as Harry's betrayal, and I think what he sees is Harry's betrayal is not so much the moving to Montecito as writing the book right up until he did that, that core text of spare that we returned too often.
We should actually have it behind us.
We really should. The only two people who knew what it was like to be them with those like, those two boys have the most singular unusual childhood, traumatic experiences, great experiences, privileged tragedy, all that stuff. The two of them were so bonded, and in Harry's book he kind of dismissed all that. He mocked William.
Well and he attacks Kate, which which by all accounts William regarded as quite understandable.
And he very much. He also kind of makes it out like they were never that tight anyway, him and William, Like.
He makes fun of his baldness.
Yeah, and we've all seen he Yeah, he's really mean about his brother. And I think that blowing the doors off that trust. I don't know how he come back from that, even as much as I'm like, oh, yeah, the doves forgive and forget, that's a pretty hard thing to forgive and forget. But can't you just shut up let him come with his family and sit in your palace while he sits in his palace for a week.
Maybe got to bou Moral for a bit, just get a bit away from it.
All, or a nice, nice European beach bit of positana, go hang out exactly.
Maybe the cousins want to play like I do. I have a lot of empathy for Charles, but I have seen it said that this is also his weakness as a leader, because it's what, well, what kind of kept Andrew around for so long? Was that Charles Nelson want to cut ties with members of his family. And the fact that William is a bit more pragmatic and a bit more able to see when maybe the royal family is being manipulated or used. That goes well with the public.
Ok. Yeah, he's got the longevity of the monarchy itself to worry about, William.
Yeah, there's some pretty funny commentary about Meghan and how now that she's lost her Netflix steal and all of that, she's kind of come scurrying back. But I do like to say that this is not about Meghan. I always hate that when these family dramas happen we somehow sent to the woman as though she is causing it. And I think the fact is there is so much complexity
in this family. And I've also seen rumors that William growing up, that the rift between William and Charles has always a little bit being there.
That is his mother's song.
Yeah that he's like, no, you were cruel to my mum.
William runs hot, doesn't he? Yeah?
Yeah, speaking of there are recent photos where he looks really hot.
He does seem to be going upset. He does seem to be going through a bit of a midlife maker.
I know he looks really hot head a football game, I don't know, but he was like in a suit and he appears to have maybe had some regrowth of his hair, like he looks good, which can't be hurting.
My hot tip for watching where the next showdown is going to be is the World Cup. Because they posted a little picture of Harry with the kids today for Father's Day and little Archie was wearing an England shirt, which is a very like considering Archie lives in the US and has nearly all his life. Is a very pointed reference. And the World Cup has been played in America, as we know different parts of America and different countries in America's but if England make it through, there's no
way William's not going. He is obsessed with football and there is going to be a showdown in the stands.
And we will be buying Oh Wow out louders.
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