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Hello and welcome to Momma Mia.
Out loud.
What women are actually talking about on Friday the twenty second of August.
I'm hollywayin right, I'm Amelia Lester, and I'm a Burnham.
We've got a bit of a different Friday line up today because our Jesse Stevens is away. Here's what made our agenda for today is Lindsay Loewen's comeback healing or an example of having to get back in line to get back in Hollywood.
The first thing I've read about AI which actually teaches me how to use chatbots properly.
And a juicy face product, a viral animated film, and an Instagram account that reads as a big cry for help. It's our Friday recommendations.
But first, I don't want to victimize myself in any way because I'm cool, but like the sexualization of me, like if that was a girl, you know, like people will be like there'll be a march for it, Like you just seriously, you're just talking about my dick all day.
So Pete Michael Davidson is a really big comunian in the US. He got really famous when he was on SNL, started as a writer, then became a performer, and he's also known for just dating really famous A list women. He recently went on the Breakfast Club radio show and was asked about the rumors surrounding his penis size, and he said that it isn't fun to be known for quote banging a lot of hot chicks and having a ten inch penis.
He is literally the man responsible for the phrase big dick energy. Right Yese is dating Ariana Grande.
Ariana Grande, So I went into a deep dive of where this rumor started, and it did start with Ariana Grande, who was his girlfriend at the time. She tweeted that he had a ten inch penis.
But as he points out in this interview to Ariana Grande.
Everything looks enormous has really little.
The BDE around people I feel dirty for last year. Okay, the bd.
Around me, it's really hurtful.
Holly, come on, it's really it's really hard for Pete. No, it is really hard. So it started with Ariana Grande. It kind of continued as he started dating a lot of famous women in Hollywood. Kim Kardashian was asked how they kind of met together and how they started dating, and she said, I had to get amongst this bde. I heard so much about it. It's been really perpetuated
by the women he dates. And in that comedy special, similar to what you said, Amelia in twenty twenty, he talked about how he hated that Ariyana started that, how she tweeted that. The tweet immediately got deleted. But that's kind of where it blew up, and that's all everyone talks about, either him and who's dating or his penis.
Well, because it also there was a phase it seemed like he was dating everybody right, like every woman in Hollywood, every very hot.
I mean, it's become a punchline.
Plain women in Hollywood.
But he's become a punchline. You'll often see women saying after the divorce, I'll be dating Pete Davidson next. Like he has become a joke, So I understand why that would be annoying.
What do we think.
About is if I was a girl, they'd be marching for this ship line.
I mean, I guess he's got a point because think about how odd it would be for let's say, Pierce Brosnan to be talking about someone he dated having a I mean, the mind boggles.
There is vagina? Is is that?
What? There is a parallel because I had thought about this with Jessica Simpson right so famously, when Jessica Simpson was in a long on off situationship with John Mayer, he went on podcasts and called her sexual napalm. He said he wanted to pitch a tent on her vagina.
Right.
I guess he thought he was paying her compliments if he was thinking at all. And Jessica Simpson since has talked a lot about that and saying it was mortifying because everybody's like, oh, well, that'd be great, right for the world to know how good in bed you are and how you're addictive. And I think he said something like, you know, I couldn't give it up if I wanted to.
I want to pitch a tent on a vaginal or whatever he said, and she said it was objectifying, devastating because it might sound like a compliment, but it's just absolutely sexualizing you to the world. And I guess that's what Pete Davidson also thinks, right.
Are we allowed to run with it if the initial comment came from that person's partner, like, does that give us an excuse to them?
I take it and make it speaker versus if it was just.
A random, brilliant point.
Because another person in Hollywood who people say this about is John Hamm, and there's a very famous photo of John Hamm where it is said to be proven that he is this well and doubt. But what's interesting is John Hamm's partners. He has had your Partner's and Pete Davison in the public eye, but neither of his partners who have been in the public eye has spoken out to verify this rumor or to deny it.
I was completely on his side this whole time, because I do think some of the comments that have I've seen on the internet personally are so degrading and so harmful. But what really irks me is that if the roles were reversed argument, because I think that makes it even more harmful. Because he's dated Kimkardashian, he's dated Emily Radikowski. No one's having marches for them, and people sexualize them every single day.
Absolutely true.
I think what's irritating for whether you're him or whether you are Jessica Simpson, is that he wants people to talk about his comedy and he wants people to talk about his art, and all people ever want to talk about is the fact that apparently it's fine to talk about his penis, and that must get old, even if you're very, very proud of your penis. Let's do a little time traveling. Is there anything more quintessentially naughties than the photographs? And I'm sure you know the ones of
which I speak of. Lindsay Lohan at a Hollywood beach party circa about two thousand and seven, posing in a bikini with an alcohol monitoring bracelet on her ankle that the.
Court ordered her away. Was she and Adelby's muse.
Yes, clearly this was so much a moment that at the time she tweeted, because that was also a thing in those days, at Chanelle, please help me out getting some stickers to put on my scram bracelet, which is the monitoring bracelet around her ankle, so I can at least wear a sheet dress, maybe kiss like it was
a big thing, all right. At that time, Lindsay Lohan had become largely a punchline, right, speaking of celebrity punchlines, that sounds like the name of a podcast celebrity Punchlines or a game show.
Oh my god, trademark that, yeah.
Immediately, because she'd started out, as we all would know, as a very promising child actor, and people would say, I've never seen talent like it, so on and so forth. She famously went to use a very overworked euphemism off the rails, and by the turn of the twenty tens, she was more famous for her mugshots than she was for her work. In fact, when I was looking at this today, I found this article from The Cut in
twenty thirteen. The headline was Lindsay Lohan's new mugshot is her best one yet, and it read written by more In O'Connor, thank you, Lindsay Lohan's new mugshot is out and it's her best one yet. After accepting a plea deal that will cry a rehab, community service, and probation for reckless driving and lying to the police, Loan posed for her sixth booking photo, working winged eyeliner and an expression that conveys boredom with a hint of mischief. This is how we were talking about Lohan.
By this, the most dated reference there is Winged I that's how you date it to twenty thirteen.
Now she was being arrested for, among other things, dui cocaine possession, assault over a period of time. It was a very chaotic time. That's how we all experienced her. Precociously talented young actress who had to retreat from Hollywood until now. Her comeback started with the straight to Netflix rom com. She did three of those, and now Disney have backed her with this sequel to Freaky Friday called
Freaky Friday. I was part of those Lindsay Low and meltdown years from the evil position of being one of the people who was putting her on the cover of magazines. But how was your relationship with Lohan? Because she's a millennial icon, right, and I've got a millennial here and a jen Z here.
I knew Lindsay Low and when she was a bit older, still a massive, massive Disney star like Confessions of a teenage Drahma Crean. I had that on DBD Herbie fully loaded Parent Trap. I think I was I watched that a bit later in life because I came out in nineteen ninety eight and I was born ninety ninety six. And then when she disappeared off Disney and then started
to appear in the media that my mom consumed. I remember my mom actually having a conversation with me, going, I don't think you should watch anything with Linday Lohan anymore,
because obviously something was happening. And then I would like see the magazines like Who magazine that my mum was reading, and I just see these photos of Lindsay Lowan, who didn't even look like the Lindsay low and I knew, just do you remember those courtroom photos of her just crying and like holding onto her lawyer's arm and like pleading with her. I remember those stuck in my head,
and I was so so young. And then it's like I literally just like blanked her off my slate and didn't hear anything about her until recently.
Emelia.
I want to ask you about the comeback right because I was reading a piece, which is what I wanted to talk about today in Glamor magazine that said it was headline while Lindsay Lowen's comeback is surprisingly healing, and it put forward the argument that I think we're all pretty familiar with that millennial celebrities. We were awful to them, and when I say we, I mean not you guys.
I actually was.
But like the media was awful to them, we hounded them. The paparazzi was absolutely unstoppable. It was sport right getting a picture of Lindsay Lohan and falling out of a car or crying in the dock and court or whatever was sport. In this article, Stephanie McNeil wrote, as I watched Lindsay and Freaky of Friday, one thought continually crossed my mind. Nature is healing, or perhaps millennial girlhood is healing.
Sure the world has welcomed her back with open arms, but only once she vanished for years and returned as a respectful wife and mother.
While it feels.
Gratifying to see her thrive, she also didn't deserve to fall so hard. What do you think about that?
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. I don't consider myself healed as of yet. Even though Mean Girls is obviously millennial cannon, I think it's partly because she was always more complicated than some of the other millennial icons that we've seen make a comeback. Part of that is that there were some dark, really dark chapters
in her life along the way. I can't not think about the Instagram live that she posted in twenty eighteen where she attempted to kidnap a Syrian child on the street in what we think was maybe Moscow, speaking a combination of English, Russian and Arabic and trying to forcibly remove the child from the child's parents. Now, I'm sure that there was substance abuse involved here at some point, but it's still a kind of chilling thing to watch.
And unlike say Britney, where Britney posts the strange dance videos in her mansion that's not really hurting anyone, a video of Lindsay Lohan trying to abduct someone is a different thing.
I think that the read on this would be that Lindsay Lohan was so hounded. There's no question that there was lots of substance abuse, as you know, that was why she was wearing the monitoring bracelet and the subsequent DUIs, and it was all very much on the record.
It wasn't rumored.
When she disappeared, she literally disappeared overseas, so she left America and she spent some time in Russia, as she referenced, she spent time in London, and then she settled in the UA. She lives in Dubai.
Will then she moved to Dubai in twenty fourteen, and like her main reason for moving was because it's illegal to take photos of people.
She says that, but also what she did, and this is a very interesting argument about what this is. What you kind of have to do, is that she married a financier who is his vice president of a very high up bank. She is protected now literally by money, distance from Hollywood, a level of cover, and the question is could it have gone any other way?
Really, she's also protected from her family.
You remember Dina Lohan was a huge figure in the tabloids. I'm sure you covered her too, and she was kind of the quintessential stage mom, like always putting getting Lindsay money ahead of Lindsay's own welfare. I guess I compare
her to like a Drew Barrymore. Drew Barrymore was another incredibly talented, precocious young actor, and she rose to fame with E T in the eighties and then she had a very public battle with substance abuse of course after that, and now she has been redeemed in much the same kind of domesticated way that a singleplendsay low hand. But another difference which I have to bring up is her face. She looks completely different, and not in a way of like,
oh she's growing up and she's aging. She just looks completely different.
Amelia.
Let me just put you right about a couple of things in what you're insinuating there. Because I just read an l profile with Lindsay and the journalist asked to what her face secrets are because she's about to launch a beauty line. You'll be surprised to hear. Oh God, I don't even know how to answer that. She said, I drink this juice every morning. It's like carrot ginger, lemon olive oil and apple.
Olive oil in the juice.
Yeah.
I also drink a lot of green tea, a lot of water. I'm a big pickled beets person, so I put them in almost. My skincare is very specific. I try out some cerrums that now I'm doing. So if you're insinuating that she's had a lot of work done, she says, I drink lemon juice a lot, and I put tons of cheer seeds in my water and eye patches.
It's true.
She gave another interview I found where she talks specifically about French pharmacy products as giving her that very unusual look that she has.
So I guess I'll go off and case rested pharmacy.
But here's the thing about this is that I think there is an argument for the fact that Lindsay Lohan is only allowed to have come back, whatever we think about the way that she disappeared. If you like and interesting your point about child stars, because from when I worked in that, I used to work in tabloid magazines and this naughty period was very much my era. And if I could tell you anything about what makes the difference between a child star who does okay and one
where everything goes off the rails, it's their family. And Michael Loewan, so Lindsay's dad who's still in prison now, he's serving a time in Florida at the moment.
For domestic abuse.
He was always selling stories on her, and like Amy Winehouse's dad was always trying to sell stories on her, and Britney Spears's parents were writing books and other things.
If you come.
From a family where and think if you contrast that would.
Say a Taylor Swift, Natalie Portland.
Ye, and if you come from a family where your socioeconomic situation changes quickly and suddenly everybody's offering you money and you don't have, you know, like what could seem like life changing money even though it's kind of small potatoes to the people who are offering it to you,
It is a train wreck waiting to happen. And the Michael Lowans of the world were like, great, I'll tell you this about Lindsay for ten grand I'll tell you that about Lindsay for fifteen, Like what that would do to you and what that does to your sense of safety? And you're the scaffolding under yourself with I can't. I don't think you can quantify that. And so I think it's very true that Lowen went off the rails. And there was a lot of handwringing in Hollywood because they
said she'd become uninsurable on movies. Right, So lots of directors are on the record as saying she's one of the greatest actors, She's going to win Oscars and all these things, but we can't put her in anything because you can't ensure her. She's going to crash her car, She's going to fall off the wagon turn. She went to rehab like six times. A lot of that was to do with studios trying to get her in there.
There is some truth to the fact that she has now been re embraced only when she looks perfect as per the facial conversation. She's married with a kid. She no longer says anything controversial in interviews. She's very respectful and polite, but entirely boring, Like I don't mean that as an insult. I mean that's like she has learned I've got to play the game. And there's something a
bit depressing about that. It's like we tamed her, Like you bring somebody right down to this very respectful thing and then you're allowed back in.
I think I went to the Freaker Friday premiere and I saw her on stage and in the theater where they come and do a little introduction.
What was she like?
So interesting because she was like someone completely different than what I assume she'd be. So she was there with Jamie Lee Curtis, who also stars in the movie, and she very much played like the backseat role like she didn't answer questions on this she was specifically asked them. Jamie Lee Curtis just owned the stage like answered everything, every single thing she said, like had to mention her son and her family.
Yeah, this is what I mean. I'm playing the part and the very respectable mom.
And even like Jamie Lee Curtis everything like people asked her, was like and look at Lindsay, she's a mom now, like she's like grown up into this beautiful woman. And they did Freaky Friday the first time when she was fifteen and now she's a beautiful woman with a son, and it just felt so like I'm a parent, I'm a parent, I'm a parent. And even when watching the movie, have.
You seen Freaky Friday?
Oh is it good?
It's really good? Like I think it's standalone in it's own movie instead.
Of a read it.
But it's so good because she leans into that character so much, Like it felt like I was watching her on Disney Channel as and like she's leaning into she still got it, still got it, but she's also leaning into the physical comedy. And I think the difference on how she was able to make a comeback and other child stars like Amanda bines can't is because they're not ready to kind of abide by the rules, like you were saying, holland lean into.
It even though I can't.
But even like Hillary Duff, like I feel like she never had a like I guess, quote unquote breakdown after Disney Channel. She kind of just kept going and acting. But even like things like when they were meant to do the Lizzie Maguire reboot that completely got canceled after they announced it and did the promo for it, because she wanted to be a show for her fans who are now adults, and Disney very much wanted it to be a Disney show and she didn't want to do that.
But the fact that Linday Loewen is leaning in and doing that, it just makes her so much more likable. I have an e stroke I've got to bring to you about that. I know how you said on the show a couple of weeks ago Manifesting. Yes, you know how you told us about the big weekend of Manifesting. I did Lindsay's come back, she credits to Manifestation.
So she says that she's lost me. Now here we go.
She said during COVID, I manifested Netflix. She said, I was like, I want to work with Netflix. I kept writing it in my journal and I kept saying it, and then that's what happened. I was like, Oh, it would be nice to do three films with them and then see where that goes. And I definitely want to do my first feature back with Disney. So she manifested that, and she says, I'm infested this movie right now.
Okay, she said it.
They're happy about that.
Can I interrupt this love fest as the car carrying millennial here to say I need to return to the idea that it's hard for me to feel nostalgic about someone who doesn't look the same as they used to look. You mentioned Hillary Duff. Every time I see Hillary Duff, I immediately get flooded with memories of Hillary Duff as a child actor, and it's really nice to be able to see that evolution.
On her face. I look at Lindsay Lohan and I don't know who she is. Who is she?
But she's got her red hair, she looks completely.
She's got kind of blonde hair now, actually like she looks completely different.
But I think that's part of why she's been welcomed back because she kind of looks it's almost.
Like she's generic.
She looks like it's yet she looks generic.
She also looks like they stopped the clock at about the time where everything went a bit pear shaped, and now they've brought her back and she can just pick up from there as if these last fifteen twenty years haven't happened, because she's thirty.
Nine more pernicious in that. Holy I don't think that it looks like they stop the clock. That would be one thing that's.
Sort of like the trade.
Yeah, I do, thank you for putting a word around it, because the thing is that she now just looks like a generic Hollywood actor, And in this way where they all have Instagram face, they all have the prominent cheekbones and the filler where they need to have the filler I'm sorry, the French pharmacy products where they need to have.
The the lemon jeice.
And the cheer seeds. They all just look the same.
And it's really hard for me to feel excited about her return when she just looks like every other actress out there out louders in a moment, what AI is doing to your brain? And how your friends can help fix it.
Out ladders, we have a listener dilemma and we need your collective wisdom to help us and our partners UI solve it. So here's a problem from one of our listeners. I'm dealing with a really uncomfortable situation involving my friend's partner. Over the past few months, he's been making inappropriate comments when she's not around, telling me I attractive, making suggestive remarks about my appearance. Recently, it's escalated to unwanted physical contact,
touching my shoulder or arm, unnecessarily standing too close. Last week, he sent me a message saying he finds me attractive and wishes things were different. My friend is completely in love with him and has no idea this is happening. She's already making serious plans with him. I feel like I'm in an impossible position. If I tell her, she might not believe me or think I'm trying to interfere. But I can't continue being around him knowing his intentions.
How do I protect both myself and my friendship? The question is what do you do next?
You tell her, you have to tell her.
I would have said differently if it wasn't overt if he hadn't actually sent her a message, if it was like, oh, it's just a bit touchy feely whatever, like you get the bad vibe. But maybe she knows about that. But you've actually got receipts. You have to tell her because I'm sure that you're very special, our wonderful listener. But also, if he's doing this to you, he's doing it to lots of people, and she's about to get serious about a serial cheat.
Ah. I don't disagree. But here's the other thing. The friendship might be over when you do. You have to be prepared for that possibility. This has happened in my social circle at least twice. The first time it happened, the woman who had been sort of approached by someone's partner told her friend. The friend refused to listen. It's very hard to hear this kind of information, I imagine, and then they ultimately divorced, surprise, surprise, But then it
took that long for the friendship to recover. I just think it's impossible, near impossible to be told that the person you love is doing this terrible thing behind your back and to just embrace the person who told you that.
I think it's really.
I agree, but it might take some time and they come.
Back around, might yeap out loud is what would.
You do next?
Share your thoughts in the Mama Mia outloud Facebook group and if you have a dilemma, please send it to us out loud at mamma mia dot com, DoD a you We would love to help.
So I've been experimenting with AI, specifically with chat, GPT and chatbots. Recently, I took a photo of myself and I sent it to the chatbot and I said, what season am I?
Oh?
I thought you were going to say, am I hot?
Oh?
God? Apparently they're actually trained.
So I was reading into this and apparently if you ask how old you are, it's trained to refuse to answer you because it knows that everyone wants to know the answer to that question.
It also knows that there is no right answer.
There is no right answer.
So I asked it what season I am and because I'm sort of low key obsessed with color season analysis, and it said that I was a summer and I said, I'm not a summer. So then I took it into another room with completely different lighting and I took another photo and then I sent it in again and then it said you're a spring, and I said.
Yes, I am a spring.
They need the lighting help.
So what this little silly anecdote illustrates is that chat GPT and other AI chatbots are not actually that helpful in teaching you things. What they're really helpful to do is validating what you already think, and they give you this wonderful sense of validation, and if it doesn't give you the answer you want, you simply ask it again in a different way. So this was something that I was reminded of when I read a substack recently entitled doom prompting is the new doom scrolling.
Now we all know what doom scrolling is. Yes, we do it regularly.
Dooom prompting is the new version of it. That's when you keep asking an AI chatbot a question until you get the answer you want, and then you keep asking another question until you get the answer you want.
You can spend hours doing this.
I feel attacked.
Do you use it in this way?
Yeah?
I use it a lot. Just tell me how you do it.
I made the mistake of having it on my phone and now I use it as like a text friend like I text it as if it's a friend.
Give an example.
So I've been doing this thing with chat ebt where I get it to decipher text messages that men have sent me.
We could do that, jud I'm jealous.
I wouldn't be involved, tell us.
So I did one recently. Actually I read this message on a previous Out Loud episode when I was being slow ghosted Bye guy, And I really didn't want to admit that I was being slow ghosted, so I asked chatgy bt. I gave it the full like it was there from the beginning, so we knew everything about this man. And then I asked it, do you really think it's over? What if he messages me one more time?
This is oh my god, the robot wait what did the texts say?
Wait? This is? It?
Basically said he was very busy, Like he was very busy.
I asked him, doesn't have any plans for the weekend and he was like, oh, I'm busy and I'm also busy this day. I'll keep you in the loop. And that was like the last message I ever got from him. So what chatchebt told me? That question? What if he messages tonight? Is so human?
It's hope.
It's home.
You just got condescended to by a chatbot.
It's hope clinging to the last thread, even when the rest of you knows the answer. So let's break it down gently, honestly and with our judgment. Do I think it's over?
Yes? Oh my god.
Your friend wouldn't tell you that exactly.
Friend would not not because he's officially ghosted, but because he's already shown you what being in contact with him feels like. Delayed replies, noncommitted language, no real effort to make a plan, no emotional awareness. After you slept together, a message saying I'll keep you in the loop that he hasn't followed up on, even as a loop closed on this.
Weekend, right as the loop closed on this week.
There are many exciting things about what you've just told me, right, because the robot is wise, there's no question, Well.
Hang on, not correct? Did he ever text you again? Did he keep you on the loop?
He didn't, He didn't text me what was correct? Jesse and I told her the same thing. Come on, but did you say ingested?
He's just not that into you that episode. But this is what I'm perturbed about here. So theot is correct, which is great. The robot did validate you a lot, made you feel really good, and.
Also gave me a strategy after on how to deal with it.
But the robot now knows all about your dating life, that you slept with this guy, all this stuff about you, and that makes me itchy.
Don't you worry about that? How does that even matter?
What I liked about this?
What do you want that?
Do you know that?
There's a theory this isn't a theory propagated by some people in Silicon Valley that once the computers are sentient, once they like can fully think like humans, they're going to comb through all of human like recorded material, including podcasts, including articles, and they're going to find the people who were negative about the robots and critical.
Of them, and they're going to track them down.
Attractive, Well, my robot is going to do. It's going to go to his robot friends and be like, mine is so sad. Why are you guys getting these deep analysis? And my just cry it's about the same man every day.
Another one's like this bitch's sending me different off of herself in different life until I tell her she's spring.
The good thing about like this, And I know there's this whole conversation of using like AI as like therapists. But the good thing about this is that it gave me an answer I already knew, right, Like I like, if a friend had the same issue, I would tell exactly what the robot did.
But I was able to do it with.
A robot and not have like a friend judge me or like even look at my face, going what if he messages? Because if I come to you whole and I'm.
Like, but hole, what if what if he does?
What if he does, You'd be like okay, like it would hurt and but you'd struggle doing that, and the robot doesn't struggle.
But you're fake, babe, because you had also asked all your friends, and the robot and me and all of Australia on mom and me are out loud so wide, hoping for a different answer, and we all said exactly the same thing.
What I particularly love about AI. I know people who.
Now you're just flattering, but no, it is because that we cannot help but personify them like I cannot help it, Like I've got a vision in my mind of what this robot you've been talking to looks like who they are.
Like.
My son watches a lot of YouTube videos where humans play games against AI, and the AI bots are usually little animated characters, and I only have to watch two minutes before I am deeply attached to them, and I'll be like, why is that human being mean to that robot? Why are they laughing at them? That's just not fair. And we are programmed to humanize everything, and so we're very, very vulnerable to building relationships with these spots, right.
And there's may be nothing wrong with that.
I know of people who they love to get some compliments from the bots for a good day, and why not.
What's wrong with that?
I know that In the out Louders group recently, when someone was talking about loneliness, a few people said, actually, chatbot's are grateful loneliness because it does literally give you someone to talk to. The problem is if there is a problem, and there are many problems with AI that I do worry about, but is.
That they're not real? Does it matter?
This is the thing I keep wrestling with over and over again. Does it matter that there is no one at the end of that question?
Well, I think in some instances it does matter. One example is therapy. So people have started using AI as a therapist. Basically, well, M's one of them, I guess, so it's much cheaper and well, what's interesting about your example, M is that it didn't ask you a question back. It just told you what it thought. The thing about therapy is that the therapist has to prompt you to answer questions. The thing about AI is that you asked the questions of the AI, and you can ask the
questions that lead to the answer you want. Much like me with my color analysis in different lighting, I keep asking until I get the answer I want. But a good therapist is the person who asks you the questions you don't want to answer.
Yeah, and that's where doom prompting comes in, right, because even though it didn't ask me any like I think it was just sick of me at this point, any follow up questions, the type of questions it would ask after that were like quite practical. So it was like, do you want me to develop a breakup guy to help you through this? Do you have any other text messages you want me to go over?
Oh?
Blessed?
So it's like it asked that with a sigh. Sorry to personify it.
Sounds so good that I'm like, yes, if you're willing to give that to me, Yes, of course, I have like a breakup guide.
And the problem is that in a therapeutic context, only hearing things that you want to hear is actually not the point of therapy. The point of therapy is the uncomfortable truths which you're never getting from AI. One example, very extreme example, there's a meta AI bot which is kind of flirty. It was developed in collaboration with Kendall Jenner. I don't know what Mark Psycherberg's doing over there, but for some reason they thought this was a great idea.
This meta chatbot basically enticed this elderly man who was cognitively impaired to pack his suitcase to run from his home in New Jersey to New York City to meet who this chatbot he thought was Jenna. He tripped along the way, he died. It's very sad, But the point is that hearing the things we want to hear can lead us down some really dangerous paths.
Absolutely right, And that's very relatable because I think that if in the same way that we know that people fall over and over again for scams, romance scams because if you're lonely, if you're not getting a life where you are getting very many compliments, very much validation, all of those things, and suddenly it's there for you. It's incredibly seductive and it can be helpful. But the question is what's at the end of it, and the answer to that is nothing, and that is kind of bleak.
Well, here's one solution or one possible sort of fix that this substack talked about. It was specifically focused on the idea that chatbots are useful when you already have an idea. So when you're having to generate a piece of writing or a piece of content or an email for instance, you need to know what you want to say before you ask it to write it for you. Because chatbots still can't come up with the idea of
what you want to say. You've got to tell it what you want to say, and it says it's great for that. But before you have the idea, and then after you've had the idea and you've written a draft and you want to refine it into something, you got to talk to humans because it's through conversation, it's through people asking you probing questions and sometimes difficult questions that you get to a solution to a problem.
After the break, we've got some recommendations for your weekend.
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Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
This is my best recommendation. It's Friday, and we want to help set up your weekend with our very best recommendation.
Holly, what do you have today?
So sometimes I come with family movie recommendations that won't make you cry, because if you have children who are at the age where you're watching movies with them, it can be really fun and bonding. It can also be intensely, intensely painful. This weekend, me and my son watched K pop demon Hunters and oh my god, brilliant suggestion.
It's time.
The world will know us pop stars.
But you will do much more than that.
You will be Hunters. Hey, this is the man's back, Hoss, cut out of here.
They're stealing the souls of our fears.
Let's send those disgusting demons back to the death where they belong. Yeah, yeah, Oh my god.
It's such a good movie, isn't it.
Yeah, And also the music.
And the graphics and the colors if you don't know what I'm talking about, because there are two types of people who listen to this right now. There are people going hut, and there are people are going yeah. It's been out since June, and it has right, but K Pop Demon Hunters has become an enormous phenomena. So it is now Netflix's second ever biggest original movie, and it will become its biggest very soon. It is number one. The song Golden, made by the who knows who sings it.
Like, become the most successful girl group song of all time Board Charts.
Bigger than Destiny's Child, bigger than Anybody Is the song Golden from that and actually most of the top fifties just songs from K pop. They are planning they've got
two more movies they're going to make. They're talking about a live stage show, presumably with K pop stars, and they're like, this is going to go and go and go, right, And I was a little bit cynical about it, I guess because I've seen it being served to me over and over again on net flicks, and I'd heard a little bit about it, and then i watched it with Bill, and oh my god. The premise, so obviously it's an
animated movie. It is ambiguously sort of americanized. It's about K pop, obviously, and the premises that the world is saved from demons, always by a girl group, and over the eras the girl groups just reinvent and this explains a lot about the Spice Girls. I think you know that there's always a girl group who's saving us all from being eaten by demons. And the King Demon decides, well, who better to beat the girl group who's saving the world than a.
Boy group, A demon boy group.
A demon boy group are so attracted, Oh my goodness, and so they send the demon boy group to Earth to fight with the girl group. Oh my, And it's just so fun so funny. And also it's one of those shows that I love watching with my kids because it's made in the language that they very clearly understand. Everything's quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, a million different TikTok visuals. The animation is incredibly of the moment and my kids.
It made me also.
Realize that a lot of what I watched my kids is not any more of American origin. It's much more looking towards Asian no question. The food they're into, the makeup, they're into, the music, they're into the video games, they're into, the animation they're into is much more from Asia. And it's really interesting shift. But I just loved it. So I'm recommending it Demon Hunters, even if you don't have kids, watch it.
Amelia, what do you have?
Well, funnily enough, mine is also a Korean origin, so it's true what you say, Holly, we are increasingly looking to Asia. My recommendation is a K beauty product. I just am over spending too much money on makeup and skincare. I can't do it anymore. Something happened, something snapped in.
Meh, and you're suddenly like, what am I doing?
What am I doing?
And so I've started using almost exclusively K beauty products. And I went into because they're more affordable. Because they're affordable and they're on the cutting edge. It's sort of like, once you get into them, you think, why was I ever bothering with the American stuff? Well, actually, Lindsay loves the French stuff. So I went into one of the CAE beauty stores which have propagated around Australia.
And you know, sometimes someone tells you something.
About like the way you're perceived by others, and then it changes everything. And so she said to me, you can't put oil on your skin. You must put hyaluronic acid on for moisture. Some skin types can handle oil and some cannot. And that makes so much sense to me because every time I put oil on my skin, it feels lovely and then I break out the next day.
Interesting, my skin loves and oil loves and oil.
Yeah, I think it's just like everyone's every other and I'm dehydrated, not dry. So she said, you got to use a hyaluronic acid, which I've never wanted to use before because it seems boring. It just seems like this additional step of moisture when I'm using moisturizer, Like what is the point. But then I bought the zerum she told me to buy. It's apparently the top selling hyaluronic acid serum coming out of k beauty.
It's from a brand called Torridin I've seen.
This all over TikTok. Really, yeah, you're in the know.
Well, the person who's served me was in the know. I'm just getting back to the basics. I'm just using this serum twice a day and it costs me twenty five dollars and that so good, feels so good to use.
I do. Actually, yeah, I do. Although to be honest, I don't need any more skin.
It is my self soothing reflex.
When I'm having any kind of feeling, I like, I'm like, I'm sure there's a cream for that.
But yes, you're right, I should. Also, it's fun to It.
Is fun, and it's lower stakes because the prices are less.
Okay, are you ready for my recommendation?
Yeah?
I really am so oh we manifest as you don't know. It's been really hard dating wise. I've been going through it. There's this Instagram accoun that I followed for a very very long time that a lot of my friends follow as well, and I can't believe I haven't talked about it because it's the only Instagram account where I have the post notifications turned on for so every time they post, I'm the first person to see it.
It's called hot Dudes. Reading tell me.
It has over a million followers, and it's literally what it does is post photos and what it says in the title of hot men reading books out in public and you.
Literally have a notification for this, so you're like in the middle of a podcast record, but it pops up.
I could be on Do Not Disturb, I could be on aeroplane mode. I will get that notification and it.
Just brings me so much joy.
But it's building false hope because all the stats say that men aren't reading anymore, which also explains why it's so exciting to see a hot man reading a book on a train. They're always on trains.
They're always on trains, are always in cafes, and it's also wearing cable it sweaters and sometimes sometimes one of their famous like Pedro Pascal, he's like on a train reading before he got really really famous. But also their captions are perfect. So the latest post they did was a guy in Hamburg and he was just at a pub reading a book, drinking a beer. Simple stuff and the caption reads, only in Hamburg's Red light district could
a fully clothed man inspire thoughts this filthy? He's nursing that bottle like someone who loves the build up and knows the payoff. HiT's harder when you don't rush. I'm not sure what's colder, that beer in his hand or the chill down my spine thinking about what else he could save us? Slowly, you know what this is?
So this is such a hot tip. I know there are lots of men listening, lots of single men listening.
No, I don't think if there are single men listening and you know a single man and you haven't set me up with him, out louders, please.
Please, but tell them to put a book in their pocket. I was on a plane recently with my friend Lucy, and we were going somewhere and there was this guy sitting opposite and he didn't have a bag with him, didn't have carry on, and he was like he was like.
Medium that's hot in itself.
He was sort of medium hot.
Like I don't want to be objectify him, and I'm not pretending I'm like mega hot writting, but like he was medium hot.
But then he reached into his jacket.
Pocket and he pulled out a small Penguin paperback and.
He just and we were flying.
It does it?
That was The only problem is I couldn't see what it was. But we were on a plane to Perth, which is a long way. He just sat there and he read that book. Me and Lucy were obsessed. I
was just like, I need to know. I kept trying to see what it was, what the book was, and also I had like a million questions about m instantly and I said to Luca, I'm going to put that guy in a book like this is there is something so intriguing and attractive about a man who is reading in public and he's not on his phone and all those things. No wonder this Instagram account is genius.
I was hotter than that. What is hotter?
I want to come.
Full circle and suggest instead of Pete Davidson doesn't want people talking about his penis, he gets his head in a book.
Yes, oh yeah, just walk around with a book at all times. Out Louders, that is all we have time for today. A massive thank you to all of you. Oh I want to remind you that these days I've taken over the out Loud newsletter. It's actually literally called Holly Change. I just use it to talk about what I want to talk about. It's like, well things that you guys might not let.
Me talk about sometimes.
Also, all our recommendations are in there, a bit of gossip from behind the scenes, a bit of celebrity gossip that I'm interested in, So please subscribe to that if you'd like to. We'll stick a link in the show notes. But friends, thank you as always for being with us all week, and am Amelia please read us out a big thank you to our team group executive producer Rute Devine, executive producers Emmeline Gazillas and Sashatanic.
Our senior audio producer is Leah Porgees, and our video producer is Josh Green, and our junior content producers are Cocoa and.
Out loud As.
We know you're not ready to say goodbye, so we thought we'd leave you with a little bit of a conversation we had on our subscriber episode yesterday. Out louders wrote in with their very spicy sex related dilemmas. One out louder had a partner who said that he felt weird introducing a vibrator to the bedroom. We had kind of differing opinions on that. We also shared some of our own sexy stories. So look, if you want to listen to this, I really recommend you listen by yourself.
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