Hello, and welcome to Mama Mia out loud. It's what women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the fifteenth of April. I'm hollywayn Right, I'm Amelia Last and I'm Clare Stephen and I'm giddy, giddy with excitement. I know because one of the things that's made our agenda today is an update on what looks like a royal tour, what tastes like a royal tour, what smells like a royal tour, but it's not actually a royal tour. We have some insider gossip from the Harry and meghanness of it all.
Plus I've got some very practical advice for how to deal with sexist comments on and off the internet.
And we all know that the best kind of gossip is podcast gossip. And so there is a viral Alex feud and I've developed a PhD in it.
They look exactly the same.
It Alex Squared.
Two people who look the same are having a fight about podcasting.
But first we are on day two of Harry and Meghan's visit to Australia. It is a royal tour. It just is right. It's giving royal tep It's definitely giving royal tour. Oh and today I did have a chat to our daily news podcast The Quickie about the not so Royal tour and all the background quick recap. They arrived in Melbourne yesterday six thirty am. They were on a commercial Quantus flight first class. YEP.
I did hear a little bit of a little bit of a tidbit from someone on the flight who said they were super friendly around the toilet area. There you go.
So they also hang around the toilet area during long haul flights because they're flying from LA. How long does that take a me e lear fourteen hours? That's a long time, right. I assume they're in first class because I saw reports that their seat number their seat row was three that point the end of the plane. None of my business, but I hear that that is first class. They got changed super fast and went straight to the Royal Children's Hospital in Melbourne. Megs was wearing a designer dress.
Now in the day that would have sold out a immediately. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I haven't seen that, but she was wearing an Australian dress an Australian designer by a designer called Karen g And they went straight to the hospital. And when I say I wasn't there, I definitely wasn't there. But the out louders have been sending me so many pictures.
It's so cute, and what kind of things have you seen in the picture?
Well, in video, it's so a lot of out loud as it turns out, were at the children's hospital yesterday for other reasons, like they were working there, or they were with their sick children there, or they were visiting relatives there. And then suddenly, as if from nowhere, incomes Harry, incomes Megs. Small talk is on. They are very good at that. They are showing all of their small talk prowess. Harry's been training for that his entire life. And they
everybody said lovely, lovely, How lovely, lovely, lovely, lovely. They are very good at that.
I liked There was a kid who had a sign and Harry said, how long did that take you? And the kids said five to six minutes.
And also because they would have been like quick if some royal people are coming on some what some royal people, Okay, quick, we'll make a sight. That's so funny watching them do that reminds you that that's what Royal's jobs. That's what the Royal job is, right. William and Kate are so very good at this. You go to a hospital or a football club or a whatever, and you make people feel good with your small talk and your exceptional beauty.
That's the way that it works today between the two of them, they have five events across Melbourne and Canberra. Then it's Camera and Sydney tomorrow, then it's Sydney for the rest of the time. Then it's the Besties event to which I am definitely and I cannot stress this enough not welcome, not invited, not welcome. So fan media right, yes,
so they've done. There's a media ban on that event because that is the event where Megan is talking to Gemmer O'Neil at the who's the host of her Best Life podcast, and it's attracted all of controversy for a lot of complicated and quite silly reasons. But it's a very it's probably the most Megan forward event, and so they're being very tight with their access, which I totally understand and apparently I even though I am Timu Royal correspondent out loud, not not going, but we.
Want it on the record that if you were there, you would just be there as a fan. I would like you wouldn't even be trying to get gossip.
I would be bringing my flower sprinkles for a signature. Exactly, That's what I would be. Actually, that's probably not the right thing to do. Will you sign my giants?
No?
Please, somebody remove this woman from the room. I've got a dilemma about this. Actually, is this school holidays? I don't live in Sydney. We know this, right. Do I just go home as normal? Or do I creepily hang around Sydney for the next few days in case I bump into them at the beach. Or do I go and hang out with my children? What's what's what's the better use of my time?
This up earlier and I've been thinking a lot about it, and my advice to you is you should go home and be with your children, and if there is an opportunity, don't worry. I'll be there.
That's fair.
I leave nearby. I'm ready to step in if you needed.
I have to ask, do you feel like any does any part of you feel a bit weird about the sort of like Royal tour but not Royal Tour of at all because it's like for profit royal Yah.
Well, is that a little I want to know what you think about this, right, because my take on this watching them, because nobody really knew what to expect a lot of apart from the best of the event and a couple of other things that have popped up, the itinerary of this trip has been kept very closely held. And what was apparent yesterday when they landed and went straight to the hospital is that this was very much like the Royal tour they did in twenty eighteen, which
we talked about on Monday. That tour was seen as one of the catalysts for everything going wrong because they were so good at it, that Pacific tour that the other Royals got jealous. That is not speculation. That is in Harry's book. That is in spare. He says, seeing Meghan, new to the family, do such a good job upset everybody and it started the bad blood. The thing that's really interesting is they are now doing exactly what they wanted to do when they were trying to negotiate the exit.
So there was this thing called the Sandringham Summit in I think it was twenty twenty.
We wanted to collaborate with the Queen.
Yes, and they wanted the Queen collap Yes collab hash tag Lizzy collapse.
Bluesy x Meghan.
That's exactly right. They wanted to literally do that. To amplify reach, they proposed a sort of half in, half out arrangement, which was that they got to be royal, but they got to live in America and they got to also pursue private business deals. Now the Queen was like, that is not what's going to happen, and that is all on the record. Also in Spare. The thing is
that is exactly what they're doing. So in a way, this is watching them do this and watching them sprinkle their star power around and you know, ride the waves of the criticism and whatever. It's ballsy. They are just going, I know that we're not officially on a royal tour, because the point of a royal tour, in case you're wondering, you're like, what is this is It supposed to be about tightening relations between the monarchy and therefore Britain and
whichever host country. So that's the purpose of it.
For instance, Charles and Camilla are headed to Washington, DC soon on such a.
Tour exactly, So what is the point of a semi royal tour? Who are we tightening bounds between? What are we tightening ties?
Like?
What am I trying to go there?
We're amplifying brand, That's what we're doing.
So that's really interesting because they are doing exactly what they wanted to do, semi royal, semi shining spotlight on charities and causes they care about, semi making money feelings.
That's why I feel weird about it. Look, I think there has been a lot of as usual with Meghan sexist and racist commentary around her visit. I read an article on the weekend in the Australian Press I won't mention where which said that Harry and Meghan are using Australia as an ATM. And I didn't love that formulation because really that's what's called making a living. And I don't have a problem with people trying to make a living.
But I guess I do feel weird about They must think it's weird that they're sort of touring the world, going to hospitals, spreading joy, but on behalf of who and to what ends. I guess the reason they're going to the hospital. To spread joy is both to spread joy but also to eventually sell more flower sprinkles.
Right, well, here's the thing. I think this is just such evidence of the fact that it takes very little to make Australia feel special, and it's because we are so far away and we feel a little bit neglected by the world sometimes. And so I saw that headline that you're referencing, and my first response was very like, no, no, no, I don't agree with that, and just very cynical. And I'm like, come on, we need some joy. There's a
lot happening in the world. We need some joy. But the fact that now that Harry and Megan are here, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I'm so obsessed. I getting so much joy and.
I know I've had it. That's what some of the out louders who sent me pictures from the hospital and stuff said, is like, I mean, I know we said this about everything now. The world is hard, everything's bad news. This just seemed nice.
And she's wearing lovely clothes and lovely shoes and Harry and Harry and his small talk and it's all so gorgeous and we get all the little tidbins. We love. I love that our newspapers right now are saturated with photos of everyday people who have had minuscule interactions with them.
And that's the news, and that's exactly what happened last But Australia's always had this funny thing of we really I think we I think we lose it a little bit about celebrities and fame because we are so far away and we're not used to it.
It's interesting anyway, we do have as as I've said, I may hang around Sydney just in case I get to bump into Harry at the Harbor or around Couldgie. I used to live there. Surely I could give them some tips about where to get coffee.
Anyway, I'm picturing you walking around Cougee in a trench coat with sunglasses, ready.
To produce my flower sprinkles at any moment. But someone who had a legit close encounter with Prince Harry this morning is Mamma Mere's associate editor, Amy Clark. You might have heard us sometimes on New Beauty. She's excellent in
every way. She lives in Melbourne. She went to the November event this morning where Harry was appearing at the Western Bulldogs football club, and of course we have to call it aget all the gossip, Amy Clark, you have just been in the same room as Prince Harry, us I have what does he smell like?
I was only two seats away from Prince Harry, but unfortunately I wasn't able to get a whiff who shape, but.
It was there was definitely some aura in the room when he walked in.
Did he seem to like? No?
But what was really actually very surprising was just how low key the entire thing was, you know, very little security. Came in from a side.
Entrance, kind of gave a wave, said hard as some kids, you know, said hello to a baby, and then just.
Really sat down and was like hey, everyone, like so chill?
Were people acting normal? Like I wouldn't have acted normal if I was sitting where you were sitting. I think I would have hollered. I would have done a bit.
I would have got some tips of how to say hello to babies, because royals are really good at that.
So we actually weren't allowed to film or take photos. I was only two seats away and he oh, sorry, I completely forgot what your question was.
My question was. My question was like, what did you do? Like he came out and did you lose it? Yes, yes, I mean.
Losing my ship because I can hardly speak right now.
But everyone was very nonchalant about the Prince harriness of it.
I think actually there was more fanfare for the Wiggles. The Wiggles were in attended Wiggles, including the Hot Wiggles. John he was there, Yes, John very excited.
Okay, because I guess it's a good comparison because you've got Lockie and John Wiggle there as well. Did Harry compared to them, compared to other people in the room. Does he have presence? Does he have riz?
It's gotta have riz, right, Amy.
He certainly has a He certainly has a presence, very like RelA acted in his way of speaking. He was kind of dressed, you know, dressed very casually, just a skinn a black skinny jean. Yeah, like a faded black skinny, no rips.
But I don't think kind of like.
Faded black skinny.
Yeah.
No, he's just a dad, guys, He's just a dad.
They're talking about, you know, you know the struggles of fatherhood and early mental health, which was the whole reason why you know, he was there was to talk about.
With the mon Vember Institute.
But yeah, I would say he.
Does have riz.
Did he say anything good?
He said a few really great things paraphrasing because obviously we weren't allowed or untranscribed. But he did talk a little bit about the advice that his therapist gave him before becoming a father. So he was told that, you know, you've got to be aware of how you're feeling because the baby is born and it's all very exciting, but after that, the days, the weeks, the months where you're.
Going to be sitting there going like what do I do?
What can I do?
And his help he said if he couldn't help Archie, he would be.
Helping Mum over offering.
You know, that was kind of the best advice that he got from Carabous.
Can I just interrupt? Did he say mom or mom? That's kind of important.
He's still very British, very like mum mummy.
No.
He also spoke about that he spoke a lot about mental health, as the royals often do. But interestingly I thought that he said and his words, actually he says, the more shit that he gets about speaking about mental health and being open. The more it just makes him want to speak more, so he will not be He will not stop talking about you know, vulnerability, mental health, you know, talking to your male friends, all of that jazz.
That's why he knows who Brene Brown is.
Yes, he quoted, he quoted.
I didn't.
I don't know what quote it was.
I mean, I'm sure she's got She's got many fabulous quotes. But he quoted Brene Brown. He's they're talking about therapy. He also was at pains to point out to the room that you know, yes we're talking about men's mental health and early fatherhood, but that you.
Know, women are women are awesome.
Though that was the quote, Okay, women are awesome. Did he go outside and kick the footy around?
Of us? Seen that he did?
Can the Prince kick an AFL ball? He can?
He can kick?
He did not come to her.
No, he did a bit of a clanger that went far over the small child's head, and he turned.
Around and looked a bit cheepish about that, but he mastered the.
Child. Remember when Harry has gone in for a high tackle.
No, no tackling. It was all very kind of rudimentary skills.
I heard he might have got upstaged by some other celebrities who were there though, correct.
So while Harry was kicking the footy, we had an incredible acoustic performance by the Wiggles that was going on that was drawing a lot of attention, specifically Hot Wiggle.
That's the John Pierre John.
Yeah, Hot John.
And also he was competing with the actual Western Bulldogs football players, so.
It was a tough gig.
The arms on those boys, yes, not the shorts about that, not of my business.
No Wiggles Wiggles arms were covered, can confirm right.
So basically Harry spent the morning getting upstaged by Wiggles. That is the headline here.
Something I love about Australian culture is that are we pressed by the royals a little bit? Who were more impressed by the Wiggle.
Yeah, the Wiggles. I have one more question. Did people bow to him?
No?
No bowing now and shaking handshaking shaking?
He yes.
He was referred to and was referred to throughout as the Duke, not to be confused with another.
Duke that we love in pop culture, of course, Bridgington.
But to the Duke, the Duke, the Duke.
So very much, still have has the royal vibe Brigidon.
Whole thing has probably given dukes more riz than.
They have sound sexy amy.
That's an exceptional account of your royal morning. Thank you, Thank you for going there for someone.
Had to do it, happy to do it.
Love your work as always, So yeah bye.
In a moment. Not everyone on the internet approves of women kicking goals, and so we're going to talk about what to do about it. A milestone for Australian women this week. Susan Coyle is the new Chief of the Army. She is the first woman to lead a branch of the defense force. She's fifty five. She joined the Army Reserve as a soldier in nineteen eighty seven and she moved up the ranks from there. When I was reading about this appointment, I was kind of shocked to learn.
Up until fairly recently, it was very difficult for a woman to ever imagine getting into any kind of senior role in the army. Apparently in the nineteen fifties women had to leave service in the Women's Army Corps when they got married, and then later that got changed to when they were pregnant. I loved what Jennifer Parker, who's a defense and national security expert, had to say about
this in a newspaper op ed this week. She wrote, the appointment of Australia's first female service chief is not just about one individual, but the cumulative effect of those who were constrained by policy, limited by expectation, or passed over despite their capability, And then she said it is in many respects over jew Holly, I know you mentioned to me that we have a number of out louders who serve in the Australian Defense Force and we thank them all for their service, and I hope that they're
taking joy and pride in this, just as the rest of Australia should be. So. Susan Coyle is a trailblazer, but she's also really uniquely qualified for the role. She's the first service chief to come from a leadership role which involves emerging technology. Is like space and cyber and lots of complicated things that Australia needs to be on top of. So she's very much an army chief for
the future. But then that's why I guess I was so distressed when you told me, Holly that not everyone on the Internet is pleased about this appointment.
No, this is one of the reasons why we're talking about this is because an out louder and I'm going to respect her privacy beyond the group, beyond our Outlouders group by not naming her. But she posted in the out Louders group this, I'm going to read out what the post said. It said. I have to be honest, I'm genuinely shocked. I wasn't prepared for what I've been seeing across social media and I can't scroll past it anymore without saying something. The volume of sex is degrading
and just plain inappropriate. Comments directed at the Lieutenant General Susan Coyle has been staggering, hundreds and hundreds of them. And it's not just men, it's women too. That part has hit me harder than I expected. This is a woman who has worked her way to the very top of a field and that has never been made easy for us. And rather than pausing to acknowledge what that takes, the years to sacrifice the performance, people are tearing her apart for being there, for doing her job. I work
under her leadership. This out louder says, she is outstanding. What I wanted to. One of the reasons why I wanted to talk about this is the next bit in particular of what our out Louder says. She says that she works under coil and that her leadership is outstanding. As I say. She says, when I joined the Defense Force, I wouldn't have dared imagine reaching that level as a woman. Seeing someone get there and then watching this response is gutting.
I'm curious whether other women are feeling this too, or whether I'm just in my feelings about it, because right now I'm genuinely blindsided by how ugly it's gotten. I tell my daughter that she can do anything, but look what she gets to see when other women get to the top. One of the reasons why this really resonated is because my daughter and I and our family had this exact conversation on the weekend, but about a different woman, Christina Cook, the first woman to travel around the moon
on Artemis two. We were talking about Artemis last week. My daughter was really distressed by coverage that she'd seen and like collections that were on social media and everything, of the awful trolling and abuse that Cook had attracted
for being in this presumably once very male role. So we had a conversation about how much to focus on that rather than on the incredibly positive imagery coming out of like Cook with her teammate crewmates, who are the amazing camaraderie between them, about the largely female team leading from the from the ground at NASA, Like how much to focus on the hate rather than the great stuff
that was happening. So what I wanted, what I'm genuinely torn about is what our out louder says there about how we tell our orders they can do anything, but then they see this happening. Do we go as my partner did. What we were talking about it on the weekend, we were talking about Christina Kosh. His view is very much just ignore it. He's like, it's sort of you know,
these are just idiots, that's the vibe. You know, that's not the men and some women, but mostly men making these comments are just idiots on the internet, and idiot people on the internet will be idiots. But my issue with the just ignore it advice when it gets to a certain point is are we then, like not acknowledging the level of pressure and abuse, like the higher price of entry? If you like that women have if they
rise through the ranks of a male profession. If we say just ignore it, don't look at it, and we don't talk about it, are we kind of pretending the world's place that it isn't, because then focusing on it feels really heavy, really depressing. We know there is a lot of progress and there are more women in all kinds of fields, and we want to celebrate that. But as another out louder wrote on that post about Susankle,
she said, I've had to stop myself from looking. I'm getting way too angry and it starts to affect real life around me and my moods. All I keep telling myself is that's fine. Let them comment. It won't change the fact that she's made it or the decision. So just let the old men embarrass themselves. What do we think about this dichotomy of acknowledging the trolls ignoring the trolls? When it comes to me.
Before we get to that, can I just ask about the comments because I don't know anything about them. Is it abuse? Is it like disparaging comments, saying that they're not qualified or something.
Claire's got some examples done.
Yeah, for I'm very across because when I saw that in the out Louders group, and this is what I'm torn about, as you say, Holly, I didn't know there had been negative commentary, and when I saw that called out, I then went looking for it and I am really disturbed as well. So there was a lot of a lot of arguments about how it's DEI basically diversity and inclusion, that she's been chosen for that role, how she actually fired a rifle. I'd be interested to know if her
peers think she's the right person for the job. A lot of like this I found really really annoying, people saying the question is is there anyone else who is more experienced and better qualified for the position? And it's like, you don't ask that if that was just a man, you wouldn't ask that question.
That's the respectful kind of commentary.
Yet in a way, because then a woman, this was from a woman, great when she gets menopausal, the real fun starts from a woman. She was asking someone tell me what her medals are that she's wearing, and they just participation medals that everyone gets these days. And basically it was a mixture of you belong in the kitchen make sandwich and she's not qualified. With the female astronaut, I wasn't across that. What kind of stuff did.
Your daughter see? A lot of the same things, A lot of things about like I hope she's just there to clean up make sandwiches. She's only there because they had to have a woman in there. What does she like? So obviously there's more toxic abuse in that. That's about the way these women look, or you know, like whether or not they should be allowed to be in the like a lot of that as well.
Yeah, and I'm sure that the black astronaut, Victor Glover was also getting a lot of vilification.
And so this is the thing is do you focus on that, because do you focus on that the fact that any woman or a person who does not fit central casting for these kind of roles, whether that's their background, their age or ethnicity, their their gender, like, do you focus on the fact that they also have to wade through all this shit or do we go let's not
give it oxygen. It's very difficult to read this kind of commentary and not get furious about it, as our out louder mentions, But is that part of the problem. Do we have to just ignore it and march on. Regardless, I can't decide it feels gas lighting.
Because I think a lot of these The tricky part is a lot of these comments are people trying to stoke stuff and trying to trying to start shit basically and provoke people. They're just basic trolls who seem to if it was about anything, they'd post the contrarian opinion just to rev people up. And I do think if we are paying them attention, that's exactly what they want because they I think they think it's funny. They think that there is something really powerful and really comical about
kind of swaying the conversation. So on the one hand, I think just ignore it. But on the other hand, I did really like when you saw these comments and people would it was often women responding and defending her and saying, I work under her, and she is incredible, and she's got forty years of experience, And when they questioned particular things about does she have combat experience, and people would say the last two chiefs didn't have combat experience.
So I have a lot of respect for the people who engage with it in order to make sure that it isn't a one dimensional narratives. But it just makes me think that I really hope that these women, that Susan Coyle and also Christina Cook are not looking at this stuff, because I mean, Christina Cook, thank goodness, when a lot of it was happening, she was in Spain, far from it. I hope the wi FI was bad.
Here's what I wonder, and this is what I'd love to hear from you about Amelia, is that so these are very particular, extraordinary obvious, like you know, a woman who can lead Australia's defense forces, a woman who can literally fly around the moon. They seem like very extreme examples.
But I think one of the reasons why the women reading the comments get so upset is because in lots of little ways, women are still dealing with this, whether they're sitting at a meeting table in a corporate environment, whether they're dealing with a male superior at work not all the time, and of course, like things have never been better in so many ways, and a lot of the out louder is in this comment thread, by the way, said my husband's in the ADF. He's deeply impressed by
Lieutenant Coyle like all that, So definitely not. You know, it's not a universal experience, but women do still come up across this in their everyday life all the time. If they're not going to the moon. How do we handle it, Amelia.
Yeah, it's complicated, by the way. I just want to say that part of what's happening here is that a lot of these comments may not be even human at this point.
That's interesting.
Guy has really supercharged the ability of bot farms to flood comments sections, and I had to stop reading I read a lot of Reddit for a while, and I had to stop reading it because increasingly Reddit, which was regarded as one of the last bastions of the Internet where humans were talking to humans, you could tell that a lot of the most inflammatory and the most extreme comments, and there were particular topics on which they were like
lightning rods for bots, the most inflammatory comments were not coming from humans, and you could just tell because they were pushing the same line again and again. And a lot of these bot farms in places like Russia a deliberately stoking division within societies. So I just want to say at the outset that a lot of these comments may not even be from living, breathing humans, which is not to say that I don't think that sexism and
misogyny don't still very much exist. And I'm sure that there are a lot of people, both men and women, who do have these thoughts on the inside of their heads about DEI and whether these women were qualified for their roles. But in the past, we didn't have to hear them say it. And that's the problem with the Internet. In amplifies our our worst inner thoughts and our worst kind of secret prejudice.
Do you think, though, that's so like for my not necessarily my daughter, but the generation who's only grown up with internet commentary, do you worry that it inhibits them?
Like?
Why would you try for anything when you know you're just going to get this?
I really struggle. It's a good question, and I guess that's why I really struggle with whether or not we should talk about this today, because I think where it came down on it, and why I decided that, yes, I agreed with you that we should talk about it, is that women are still dealing with this in real life. So, yes, there are the bot farms, Yes there's the amplification of people's worst thoughts, But just today, in the nine newspapers.
There's a god a Minute column which is like workplace advice, and there was a letter which read, I'm the only woman in our senior management team. During a meeting about a vacant role at work, one of the men asked who had been a successful candidate. Another man said we chose the one with the large chest, which drew laughter around the table. All right, Jerry sein felt very funny. Well, the good news is, though, that Kristin Ferguson, who is
the who answers the advice the advice column. She pointed out that managers can't just brush this kind of comment off anymore if there is a complaint, of which this woman had about this comment. There are laws that were passed in twenty twenty two that say that employers actually have a duty to prevent harassment and sexist conduct in the workplace. She told this letter writer, your manager has to take this seriously. They have to show you what they are doing to stop this kind of sexist behavior
from happening. And that really cheered me up. It means that in real life there are now consequences for saying these kinds of casually sexist things. I think the world is changing, okay, along with pictures of Harry and Meghan which in a non creepy way keep them coming out louders, and tips for my knee veggie bed. There is one other piece of gossip that I am being sent a lot in my DMS, and that is because Jlo, who I don't know if you saw her at Coachella?
Did you see she she popped up in a guest role at Coachella?
What was she wearing?
The most extraordinary like front dental floss song Like she had these thick dancer tights on, but she had this tiny, little like sparkly cod piece and she was like caressing it in the very ja. It's not about that. Allegedly she has been hooking up with Brett Goldstein. If that name means nothing to you, then you have not been sending this to me because this is not your special interest area of Ted Lasso times, Jlo. Because Brett Goldstein was Roy Kent, who's like the breakout the eyebrow Guy.
Because Ted Lasso guy is now on the new Steve Coroll HBO show.
Yes that's true, right, so yes, the one who plays the other footballer Jamie. Yes, yes, yes he is I've been watching that. It's good right anyway, we digress. Brett Goldstein was Roy Kent, and not only is he a breakout stuff for that, but he went on to co write Shrinking. Co wrote Shrinking with Jason Sigal. He's a big deal. He's a writer producer in Hollywood now and he has also created a rom com specifically for j
Lo called Office Romance. That show is about to go into its promo cycle before it streams on Netflix in June, which makes this bit of gossip especially scorellless because we all know what happens there. But there have been some pop photographs of them looking cozy and then this kind of commentary in tabloid newspapers. During the rap party and Insider told The Sun they were all over each other during the dinner and drinks with the rest of the cast. They have a lot of fun while shooting. It was
just what jen needed After ben Affleck. He really put a smile on her face in September twenty twenty four, so that's way back when he would have been wearing her for this part. The duo was spotted at a Broadway show together and after filming completed, Jennifer told Andy Cohen on the Watch What Happens Live show that Brett was her favorite on screen kiss. I'm gonna say I just did a movie with Brett Goldstein, and I would say he's the best kiss.
As she says, I'm not buying this, Holly, why not? Because it's just publicity, Amelia, how dare you publicity?
Only publicity? I mean, Jayla wouldn't be going out with Brett Goldstein.
Did you also see that Jaylah's having a good time at the moment because Ben Affleck apparently gifted her his share of their sixty million dollar Beverly Hills mansion just recently too, So she's got great she's got luck in real estate. She's apparently got Brett Goldstein on speed dive.
Brett Goldstein doesn't look unlike benefit. That's and that's what makes me slightly believe this.
I alsoel like they're both herstute. Maybe she likes her stute.
Yeah, And I also think Jelo isn't known for being particularly covert with her. If this were anyone else, you might think, Okay, yeah, yeah, it's just publicity. Because the whole narrative that basically he had a massive crush on j Low and so wrote a Netflix movie for her to star in, and he's so gushy. He's like, we just wanted to write something funny and smart enough to be worthy of her, saying yes, like I just I
love it. I would think with anybody else that it was just great publicity, But with j Low, I don't know. I think I think she's on the prow and I think she's found love.
I do. Do you think Ben is doing that thing where he stands outside of building taking an exhale from his cigarette, just looking the sky.
It's a team of me j Lo.
Yeah.
And it's like, so you have fumbled this so many times you don't get to grieve anymore. After the break the podcast drama, we are way too invested in two blonde women who could easily be miss taken for one another, which I can't criticize, like like you know what I mean, I have a blonde counterplak.
Is this not about you?
I wish? I mean we should start a podcast feud, but they are currently fighting on the internet and I just needed to get to the bottom of it. So I think we can do it.
As a group. You need to talk me through it, Like how to tell the difference between the two of them and why they're feuding.
Things particularly complicated. They're both named Alex.
I know, one with a knee and one with an eye. Am I correctly?
So one is Alex with an E. That's Alex Cooper, host of Call Her Daddy.
I very much know who she is. That's one of the biggest podcasts in the world. She's very good.
Yep, most listen to podcast by women, second to us.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Her recent guests have included Nicki Glazer, Kerry Washington, Jeanette McCurdy, Anna Kendrick.
She's into be Like She with a spin on that, but Kardashians are always on that show exactly.
It's it's one of the biggest podcasts in the world. She also owns the media company Unwell. The other is Alex with an I and Alex Earl is a social media personality who I discovered on TikTok and I think a lot of people discovered when she was doing get Ready with Me videos and she's just beautiful, absolutely beautiful. And she had a podcast called Hot Mess with Alex Earl, which no longer exists, which we'll get to, but that was with unwell, that was with Ali.
It's like network, It's like Alex Cooper owns the network. And she was like, hey girl, because that's how these people talk. Hey girl, come to a show for me. Yes, And Alex Earl said love to girl, and then she started doing it and then something something happened exactly.
So let's start with what's happened very very recently, and then we'll go back. I'm scrolling through TikTok yesterday in the office on work time. It was Monday in the US, because the US doesn't make sense. But I see this video from Alex Cooper.
Hey guys.
You guys know, I don't usually address this kind of stuff because.
When now the thing starts with, I don't usually address this kind of stuff to.
Participate in this. But I am obviously seeing the videos. I'm getting tagged, I see the dms, I see the comments. So at this point it just feels long overdue. Alex Earle, hey girl, Hey girl, the passive aggressive reposts and the likes and the commenting on things. I gotta call you out here. You're gonna need to get specific and just say what you've got to say about me.
I love because It's taken me as a gen X for a while to realize that you can have a complete feud with someone just through internet bikes. That has taken me a while to figure that out. But I love that she's just like the likes and and then the posts like we're not having it, like okay, shots fired.
So when she says ndia, she's talking about like why the podcast didn't work out?
Yes, yes, She's like, none of this is under an NDA. You can talk about how us.
Why the podcast didn't work out well?
So the podcast Alex Earl signed in twenty twenty three with Alex Cooper on This Unwell network and then last year, it was only last year the podcast was no longer with the network, and nobody could kind of understand why. There was clearly some kind of falling out. And there's been lots and lots of rumors, and I've been kind of aware in the zeitgeist of the rumors, but not not full across them. Luckily, my friend David Portnoy, who I'll get to who he is, but he has weighed
in and that's really clarified things now. David Portnoy is the owner slash founder of Barstool Sports, which was the network that Call Her Daddy was on originally.
Guess very complicated here it does.
So Caller Daddy was on Barstool Sports started in like twenty eighteen, and this is just interesting behind the scenes business goss. So obviously Caller Daddy blows up. It's Alex Cooper and it is her very good friend who is co hosting it with her at the time, Sophia Franklin. So it's the two of them and the podcast is doing really well. Yet they are on a salary of seventy five thousand dollars a year because it was all
owned by Barstool Sports David Portnoy. There's then in twenty twenty a very public dispute going on between the Call Her Daddy podcast and Barstool Sports where they stop publishing episodes. David Portnoyd jumps in the feed and does an episode to update people.
That's when I became aware of Call Her Daddy. Yes, it's so interesting because like just culturally, podcasts have now become celebrity gossip in a way that they never were. And I think this was one of those moments where now suddenly, like what's happening in podcast world. Thank god that's not in Australia. Yeah, I do not encourage it. But what's happening in podcast world is like as salacious as like whether Jlo is flashing her cod piece at Brett Goldstein, and it is.
And so basically there's this big dispute. Sophia Franklin leaves the show, Cooper starts hosting it alone, and then in twenty twenty one, so only the year after, she signs a deal with Spotify for sixty million and she gets the rights and all of that. So then Alex Cooper starts this unwell network, she gets Alex Earl on and they have this falling out. David Portnoy was on a podcast yesterday morning and he weighed in on this, and I feel like he would know, so he said, Alex
Cooper and Alex Earl. The biggest kind of rumor about what the feud was was a Carl's Junior commercial at the Super Bowl in twenty twenty five. There was this commercial and apparently both of them were up for it, and they have the same manager, which has got to be a conflict of interest.
You can't manage two people called Alex.
You can't and they look the same, and they'd be up for the same.
Really confusing. I bet their manager just gets some mixed up all the time and says, I thought it was that Alex hand the burger to the Allix.
Alex Earl got the commercial, but apparently, according to our mate David, Alex Cooper said, even if you offered me ten million dollars, I wouldn't have done that commercial. So he's like, that's not where the drama is. And I'm like, well, thank you, because I didn't even know that that was a rumor about where the drama started.
Apparently I'll do the commercial to a lot of burgers for ten million dollars.
And then another rumor was that Alex Cooper was annoyed that Alex Earl got a cameo in Happy Gilmore too Adam Sandler and I'm like.
Someone with Travis kurlse Bunny.
Well maybe because I was going to say, I don't think anyone wanted.
It.
Sounds like that buddy was in it.
I would have gone and I would have been anything in that.
Oh wow, everyone wants to work with Adam sund like he's like the nicest man in Hollywood.
Yeah, he does seem really nice. Yeah, I just thought Happy Girl had it this moment clearly, So it wasn't either of these things.
And it's like, okay, so what was God's podcast.
Exactly? So he said that he didn't know exactly what alex Earl's contract looked like, but he reckons it was a contract. And he said, Alex Cooper, one time I saw her and she was like, I want to apologize for the way we were. We'd call her daddy. Now that I'm managing talent, I can see how hard it can mean.
Oh, this is one of those classic cases when you become the boss and suddenly recognize all the shit that the boss has to put up. Yeah.
Yeah, And so he seems to think it's definitely not a publicity stunt. There is there is something going on. There's some kind of tension, and Alex Cooper has always said that alex Earl still owned the rights the IP to her Hot Mess podcast and she could have done it, like she could have gone off and done it on her own. And so she I think when she says there's no nda, talk about it, talk about whatever you're mad about, that's what she's saying. Is there actually was
I wasn't stopping you from doing it yourself. The best part of all of this is that when Alex Cooper posted her video saying hey girl, alex el commented beneath it and she said on it, So it's like, come on, where is it?
Where is that?
So this is one of those cases right where we like women fighting. Yeah, so this is a business deal gone sour. But because it's between two blonde alexis, both of whom have significant social media followings and like just say hey girl a lot, we are much more invested than if this was just two dudes in a suit.
I'm going to start saying, hey girl, I think I can pull it off.
I think every time there's just a little bit of tension on the show, we should sit down and I'll just look at a million and be like, hey girl, hey girl.
Now I'm aware I'm a broken record, but there are some people on the internet who were saying this is not real. But this might be all a little bit of a pr.
Stun because the thing about Alex Cooper that call her Daddy has become no is that when she teases a guest for her podcast, the teasers are incredible. She always has a really creative, clever way of teasing it.
She had Sarah Jessica Parker on, for example, and she was like walking around in her outfits for ages, her iconic Sex in the City outfits for ages.
Yeah, she kind of drops clues and everybody loses their minds about who who the guest could be. It would be weird, though, because Alex has already been on Call Her Daddy, she was on in twenty twenty three. I guess she could have her on again. They could have a fight on Mike. I don't mind what I think.
Why do you think that podcast drama is suddenly like what people on the internet are talking about.
I really like people fighting. I really like people fighting, and I like working out what side I'm on.
Yeah, so that brings me to the question which side are you on?
Well, the thing is that Alex Cooper has obviously also had a falling out with her ex Call Her Daddy co host, And my thing in these things is always, are you the type of person who just falls out from everybody? Because then you're the problem. But then I don't know it was You're tossing up between seventy five thousand dollars a year versus like a sixty million dollar contract. I don't know, is that worth of friendships?
Maybe ten friendships?
Maybe you could have all my friends.
I'll put them all, send them all to you in a Gwyneth gift basket. But the older I get no, I'm friends that wouldn't that's disclaimer. You're all worth more than sixty millions.
We're all like we would cut each other, but I do reckon. As with anything, there are always two sides, and there is always, as you said, Holy age old story of what it's like to be the person who's being managed versus being the manager.
And you know, well, we like we get a tiny taste of this. Sometimes when something changes, people like there must be drama there, and often there is no drama there. Like often it's just literally, this is work, and things change at work sometimes and like deal with it. But I think, but when you go live, when you go live on several platforms at once, with the words I never normally comment on this kind of stuff, there's some drama.
I'm just so surprised that someone who had a podcast called hot Mess turns out to be a bit mess.
I know, I know.
Look, we'll keep you updated on our own podcast Gossips as the week goes on out louders, but I think that is all we have time for this week.
You'll know that there's drama when I start saying, hey girl.
Yeah, yeah, you can do the accent and everything.
All right.
I think that's it, friends, I think we've come to the end of a very exciting episode. I'm off to lightly store.
I was going to say, if you see us in the back of papshot, Yes, Megan, No you didn't, definitely did.
Thank you to all of you for listening. Thank you to our amazing team for putting this show together. We'll see you on Friday.
Bye.
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we've recorded this podcast.