Hello, and welcome out Louders to Mama Mia. Out loud It's what women are actually talking about on Monday, the twenty ninth of June.
My name is Hollywayne Wright, I'm Claire Stephens.
And I'm Amelia Luster.
Oh it's Amelia Leicester's birthday. And you may have noticed this last week. I know some out louders did. But one of the things we're doing to make Amelia Leicester feel special is bring her boyfriend into the studio. That is what's Simon.
Baker, and he does make me podcast better.
We replaced the creepy photo of Jesse with Simon Baker.
And how are you feeling?
I feel better about it. I feel a lot better about it.
We were talking last week, Amelia about how Stephen Bartlett Diary of the CEO had three glasses of wine and that reckoned he couldn't podcast for the rest of the week. How did your birthday drinks?
Yes?
Why? I think it was a mind over matter situation because I did have birth to drinks last night. I bought new friends and old friends together. Some of them are out louders. I'll let them be the judge on how the mingling of groups Wench, but I am not hungover today. Amazing.
She's so much better than Stephen Parler. Well, we're going to get to him. Here's what's on our agenda today. Miranda Kerr and her billionaire husband just waived a magic money wand and changed the lives of thousands of Americans. Amelia knows why.
Plus Karl Stefanovic's martyrdom strategy. Do we think it's going to work? And where do we think he's going next?
And this is the week Taylor Swift is getting married, and we have the New York Times verified details.
But first, in case you missed it, it's tax time, friends, and some people are delighted about that. Some people are in an admin spiral. Some people are planning a shopping hall. King Charles obviously saw all the fun everyone has at tax time and decided he wanted in.
I bet he's gone to office works. He totally gets some little snacky snow and a whiteboard.
He has he totally has because for the first time ever, senior royals are revealing their tax returns. Right to be clear, they don't have to, so royals don't even have to pay tax, but they the Queen changed the game on that and started paying tax back in nineteen ninety three, but they've never had to declare how much or have it made public. But Charles, we've talked about this on the show a lot. Charles and William keep saying that they're going to change things, that they want more transparency
in the royal family. That they know people are a bit suss about all those houses they've gotten who they let stay in them, like their dodgy relatives have some dodgy connections. So they have released their tax returns and just like mine, King Charles reveals that last year he paid twelve point nine million pounds in tax. That is nearly twenty five million Aussie dollars. Well, it sounds like a lot of money.
Right, Yeah, seems like he's keeping the economy of flying.
The thing about all this is, though, is that so royals pay tax on their earnings and they earn money from basically the land they own. So Charles, most of Charles's money comes from something called the Duchy of Lancaster, which is like a big parcel of land and businesses that are on that land and rents that get paid for properties on that land, and so he gets income from all that, and that's what he pays tax on.
But then on the other hand, the royals also get given money by the government, so it's like they give the governments money and they get money from the government.
So they're basically welfare queens.
They basically are. And also the government pays them for some of the money that they're then giving back to the government, if you see what I mean. So for example, there's a big prison on some of the royal land and the government pays millions of pounds to rent that prison from them, and then Charles pays tax back on it. Do you know what I mean? It sounds like some kind of boomerash tax scandal. I don't know, but for the first time we know exactly how much money they're all in.
I do wonder what he is allow to tax deduct with his accountant, Crowns gin what else, Like just think synonymous with being King Charles Dilotines.
Yeah, I'm interested in why he's getting money from the government.
That doesn't feel like that good.
So here's the thing is, their royal family gets money from the government to keep things going. So this year they're going to get one hundred million pounds to like renovate an old palace, sort this out, sort that out, keep the royalness of Britain going. So they get money from the government, they charge the government for things, and they pay back money to the government. So it's a very.
This is the thing I understand transparency. I think that's lovely. I would also like to know more details, like about his tax return documents, like like what he is claiming,
what holidays, counters, work travel, et cetera. I guess he'd be able to claim everything, because it's like he's always do you know what I mean, Like, you know, Holly, if we go on a trip, we could be like we went to a book shop and signed a book, so therefore we can do I don't do that on my tax return, so that's why I can make a joke about it, like you could kind of claim it as a work thing. But he's he's always king, and.
He's always speaking all the time, and he famously used to have whether or not he still does, we're not sure. But when he was Prince Charles and like a bit of a young man about town, he used to always travel with an equerry who would make his martinis for him and carry them around a party, and he also always had someone to squeeze the toothpaste onto his toothbrush wherever he was.
That can't be real, so surely it's definitely real.
So those that would all be taxtadtable Martini guy, toothpaste guy carry. There was even in Tina Brown's Palace paper books there was talk about sometimes if you'd go to a country house, and again I'm sure that things have changed, she said generously. He would insist if he was going to stay at some fancy person's country house, that a bed was brought in for him, his bed, his pictures on the wall. So then there's bedroom guy for pillar fluffing.
Guy, soft toy guy as well.
Didn't he need to in a particular combos soft toys. So there's a lot of people employed to make sure that the king and the princes and everybody can feel important enough. But this is apparently what William was going to unpick. So a lot of people might be out of work for not squeezing toothpaste anymore. And I don't know, I'm up in arms about that.
I'd like to see AI do that.
In a statement at the end of last week, the Nine Network announced that Karl Stefanovic, who has hosted the Today Show for more than twenty years, would leave his role immediately. It followed days of controversy after Karl used his independent podcast to interview British far right activist Tommy Robinson, best known as a co founder of the English Defense League and anti Islam movement established in two thousand and nine.
Tommy has also been to prison several times and has been convicted of several crimes such as assault, mortgage fraud and contemptive court a bit of a rap sheet. In two thousand and five, he lost his job as an apprentice engineer when he was jailed for assaulting an off duty police officer. He then started his street activism as
a member of the fascist British National Party. He styles himself as a bit of an independent journalist and that is a claim that Stefanovic didn't challenge during their hour long interview, despite Robinson's frequent involvement in violent unrest and
peddling of misinformation online. Robinson has also shared graphic footage of a stabbing attack in Belfast allegedly carried out by a Sudanese born suspect, and then he promoted rallies which devolved into violent attacks on migrants and the burning of homes.
His content was singled out by police as playing a significant role in the radicalization of the terrorist behind the twin seventeen Finsbury Park Mosk attack, and generally his content is understood to have a lot of hate speech about Muslims. He's been denied in Australian visa twice and has a very transparent hatred of the media. He's been convicted for stalking and threatening a string of journalists in late night visits to their homes. So overall not a great guy.
This is who Karl has his arm around at the beginning of the interview and who he conducted the conversation with in a very matey tone. Stefanovic also praised Robinson for his tenacity and courage and signed off with I love you mate. On Thursday, Maya and Holly dropped a bonusm Maya Out Loud episode unpacking the news of Karl's departure from nine. That was the moment that we knew
it was official. But since then, he's posted a viral farewell message on social media defending his choice of podcast interviewees and sounding relieved that he is finally free and truly independent. Here's a bit of that message.
So here's what I believe in the public deserve to hear perspectives. This country was built by hard working assies from all around the world, and they were bound by the same values but very different experiences. So on my show, I've spoken to people who have different perspectives. I know that why and some people up. Sometimes I agree with everything against says, sometimes I don't. But importantly, you get to make up your mind. You have the right to
hear from different voices. Freedom of speech here and around the world is what this show is about.
I just can't wait to be free of my multimillion dollar contract. I know, it's all I want in life.
I know.
I think he's been very shackled and now he is free of being paid that much. Over the weekend, there seem to be two camps emerging. There are those who now see Karl as a symbol of free speech and supporting him is basically saying, yeah, this is ridiculous. We can be trusted to make up our own minds. And there are those who are cynical about this well trodden strategy of leaning into controversy and then building independent media
on the back of it. Holly, does this feel reminiscent of some other big names in media.
Absolutely, this is a it's become over the last few years, a really well trodden path for particularly in America and the UK, for mainstream media people. So Piers Morgan is a good example right in the UK. So Piers Morgan former newspaper editor, and he prides himself on grilling people, which is not something that Karl is doing. Has to be said on his podcast, at least not at the moment.
Maybe he will do more of that. But Piers Morgan was a very mainstream media figure and controversial in a way. But he famously left TV in Britain in a huff after he had a fight on air with a colleague about Megan Markle. His views about Megan Markle a kind of be on the pale. But anyway, he huffed off and he went to work for Murdoch for a while, making a sort of TV talk show on YouTube for Murdoch.
But now he has set up his own media company and it's called, of course Uncensored because he's not no longer censored. He can say what he wants, and he's built it from one show to three. So there's there's a history, there's his main show, his opinion show, there's a history show now, there's a royal show now, and you can expect that to probably grow. In the US.
Tucker Carlson did this, Megan Kelly did this. Less well known media names have also done it, where they've said, I don't want to work for the New York Times anymore, Barry Weiss, I don't want to work for whatever because I'm censored in what I can say. I'm going to go off and build my own. Louis c K, Yes, Louis c K. Even Russell Brand, you could argue, you know,
has definitely done this. So we live in a very different media landscape than the one that the likes of Carl came up in, and some of us are obviously a bit more aware of that than others, because some people saw the firing and inverted commas of Carl and we're kind of like, oh, no, he's been fired. But
it's quite apparent that Carl wanted this. There is no it was untenable for him to keep doing what he was doing over here on his own independent podcast and still be smiling and interviewing the Prime Minister on Today Show, sitting next to Serah. But every day that was just becoming untenable. The Tommy Robinson decision, it needs to be clear that has that's considered beyond the pale in Britain,
it's considered beyond the pale everywhere. You know, the far right Party of Britain, Reform UK, they will have nothing to do with Tommy Robinson, like he is a really out there marginalized figure. So making that particular decision was very red ragtable in terms of I don't know how you can you can expect to keep a mainstream job if you've done that, particularly in the way that he's done it, which is not a grilling, not a prosecution
of ideas, but a mate sit down. And particularly that social video I think was one of the things that really really made that clear that he was It just wasn't possible for nine any more to keep him on staff.
And I think that detail about Tommy Robinson is really important because when I first saw we talked about it Holly before we talked about it on the show, about what it looked like he might lose his job, and I think a lot of us had never heard that name before Tommy Robinson. And you think, well, there are a lot of provocative people online who say all sorts of things, and just because you interview somebody doesn't mean you endorse everything. There there's that argument that a lot
of people are leaning into. But this particular person having him on your show and not having a critical eye at all, I think you're exactly right. It was orchestrated that you can't do that and then go sit.
On the Today So to beic clear, and I mean, as you said, Mia and I had a conversation about this on Thursday, and I urge everyone to go listen to it because Mia obviously has some really interesting insights into this. She not only owns a media company, co owns a media company, but she used to work with Carl, worked at the Today Show and all these things, so she has really really good knowledge about this. But it's true, of course that you know, particularly an independent media world,
you can sit down with whoever you want. Platforming doesn't always mean endorsement. But there is a very specific pattern in the way that Carl has decided to go with his guests on his show, which is in one very strong political direction. He has thrown his hat literally because he wears a big hat in all the answer for
his show. He's thrown his hat in that ring. It's a little disingenuous to be saying, oh, I want to hear all different perspectives when it seems that actually most of the guests that you're having all have one same perspective.
Yeah, and also you don't hear Sarah Ferguson or Lee sales and interviews with controversial figures with the sign off of love you mate. Like, that's just not what serious journalists do when they're interviewing someone, especially someone controversial. To me, I just the cynicism of this is just gobsmacking. I went to the source. I didn't want to watch the Tommy Robinson interview because life is too short. I watched
the Holly Valance interview. Now, Holly Valance had a hit single back in the early two thousands called Kiss Kiss, which had a very risky music video, and she has now turned into I think she would describe herself this way as an advocate for right wing slash conservative causes in the UK. She was married to a billionaire called Nick Candy, a property developer for a time. They are now divorced, and she says to Karl that she is now a stay at home by occupation, but like I said,
she's also involved in politics. So I wanted to see how he conducts one of these interviews on his podcast. And I should say that, like most Australians, I used to find Kyl so charming, Like he is just a very charming, charismatic individual and that's why he's been so successful in media. And he's a great interviewer too. But what became a parent watching this interview with Holly Valance is that all he wanted from Holly was controversial soundbites
that would catapult him into the headlines. And to Holly's credit, Holly was not in the business of promoting Carl. She wanted to talk about what she wanted to talk about, and she didn't want to be goaded into saying things that may or may not represent what she actually thinks just so that he can get more famous. So at various points in the interview, he keeps saying to her she's spoken out in the past about how she thinks
that immigration numbers are too high in the UK. He kept pushing on that because he wanted her to say something that would get headlines, and she wouldn't do it because even she someone who was sympathetic to the point of view that he's putting forward, even she could see that this is just the Carl Show. This is him just trying to get controversy and upset people for the sake of his own brand.
To be clear, Holly Valance has also been done to hang out with Tommy Robinson. Like I think again, the pattern of the guests he's choosing is very sure.
But I think you're right, Amelia. He's going for this rage babyge. He's trying to jump on the hate train to get views and monetize what he's doing, and so the idea that he's therefore been persecuted seems absurd. There's an Australian actor and director called Damon Gamo and he shared he basically shared the playbook on Instagram, which I found really interesting. He said, Carl's just deployed a tactic
that is sometimes called the martyrdom or persecution strategy. It's been used by figures on both the left and right of politics, which I really agree with. You see it you see it on both sides, he wrote. Step one, deliberately violate a social norm by interviewing a controversial figure, for example. Step two, generate public backlash. Critics condemn ideally an employer pushes back. Step three, reframe the backlash as persecution. You post on socials, you tag Elon, You thank him
for being a bastion of free speech. Step four strengthen group identity and grow your audience, and then position yourself as someone who tells uncomfortable truths and you encourage subscriptions hunt to whatever you're doing. This is exactly what he's done, and I find it Carl in that video where he's talking about finally being free, he really is appealing to the ego of the people who are on his side, saying, you're smart enough to make up your own mind. You
don't have to listen to it. He's kind of there are people who are like, yeah, yeah, I am I am smart. I can listen to this and decide whether or not it's for me. And I think there is also an important point to be made about when people
go independent, the danger of that. So when you are hosting the Today Show, you're working for the nine network, and there are all sorts of problems with mainstream media as well that you can have agendas all of that, but when you go fully on your own, you have no one to hold you to account to maybe ask questions, you.
Have no.
Very very senior producer, maybe say hey, so this is the reason people don't interview Tommy Robinson. You don't have the kind of journalistic code of ethics or the journalistic standards. So in Australia, if ma'm Maya does something wrong, if Sidney Morning Herald does something wrong, you can right to like like Journalistic Standards Board and file a complaint. If an independent journalist does that, there's no kind of mode to challenge it because they're just doing their own thing.
The thing that's tricky because it's absolutely right that by nine letting go, letting Carl go, they've created something of a martist storyline for him, no question, and you know there have been other examples of this, you know, but the sort of letting someone go and then that becoming part of their narrative that allows them to rise to a certain level is tricky because the alternative is also
really hard. I was talking to me about this on Thursdays at where I said, why couldn't Nine in a way just hold their nerve because Carl was on a one year extension on his contract. So in theory you could like hold your breath till December and maybe until the Tommy Robinson red flag, as I say, happened they were there would have been lots of talks. There had been a campaign had started from mad fucking Witches, who are a pressure group who get together and pressure advertisers
on networks. This has been part of Kyle Sandaland's story for a really long time, saying why are you employing this person? Why are you advertising on this show? Right? And so in a way you think when I saw that Nine were going to fire in inverted commas Karl. Although they've made it clear both sides that they're not calling.
It that, No, they're making it sound like in a mutual agreement.
There was a bit of me, as someone who's resistant to that Mader narrative, that's like, oh, you've just made it. You've just given him more credibility and standing in doing that, written this free speech script. But in truth, there didn't really have much option because it's such an outrageous thing
to do. To be seen walking down the street with your arm around a guy who isn't even allowed into Australia because his views are considered so extremely dangerous and violent that the pressure that was going to come to nine as a result of that was probably going to be too damaging. And that was the same story with
Kyle Sanderalance for a very long time. You know, is that networks allowed him to be on the network despite complaints because he brought in a lot of money, and he made a lot of money, and he brought a lot of listeners. But where there's a tipping point, when the cash cow becomes a bit of a liability, that's when they have to act. So, in a way, I think a bit of new media literacy, Carl will be fine,
probably because he's got this free speech narrative. He could now choose to build a subscriber based model for his media empire that will be lucrative. Or advertisers who are not spooked by his choice of guests will follow him because they know his ability to attract attention is enormous and we talk about it all the time. We live in an attention economy.
Or Allah Barry Weiss, he may have some very wealthy patrons who are subsidizing his career move.
Yep, and that's one thing that Mead talked about on Thursday, thinking that something has shifted in that corner for Karl lately. Read into that to what you will, But either way, he now has the freedom to build an empire off network if you like, and to be honest in the media landscape of twenty twenty six. That's a great place for him to be. Whether or not it's a great place for politics to be, etc. Is a question depending on your views, but he has definitely this has probably
been a net positive for him. We'll put links in the show notes to the episode that we did with Mia last Thursday, the column I wrote about this on Friday, and also to the No Filter episode that Caitlinbrook did with Jessica Row That's Live Today, where she talks about her relationship with Karl and that time he had toologize her to her for quite an infamous incident. All those links will be in the shadouts.
After the break. All the actual verified details about Taylor Swift's weating this weekend. This is the week after months of speculation, the New York Times has confirmed what we talked about on this show last week, which is that Taylor Swift is walking down the aisle this weekend, and she is doing it just as we talked about last week again at the Madison Square Garden arena in yours?
Are you putting all your chips on that?
The New York Times confirmed that Taylor Swift had booked Madison Square Garden for Friday and Saturday night, and the city leaked to The New York Times that they have asked for the streets around the garden to be closed. Final piece of evidence is that various players on the Kansas City Chiefs, which is Travis Kelsey's football team, have booked hotel rooms around the Madison Square Garden complex. What's happening?
You are not going to be able to escape this wedding this weekend, even if we don't see a single picture from it.
No, do you think, No, We're just gonna get We're just gonna get all the gossip. I mean, I've heard. One little tid bit I've heard is that Taylor got the idea of Madison Square Garden from when she went to I believe it was Selena Gomez's wedding and she realized that that was going to be the only way, like having it enclosed is the only way.
Because Selena's wedding was disrupted by drones. So let me explain to you what the source has told The Times about exactly how this is going to go down. Friday night. We're going to have an intimate gathering of around one hundred people, which if anyone has gotten married and done a guest list before, Holly, I know you don't understand this. It's hard to keep to one hundred, like that's kind of the magic number that pretty much everyone always says they want, and it's really hard.
And especially like she's invited Graham Norton, do you know what I mean? She invited him, so he's not coming. He's definitely not coming to that one. But I just know, I just think she's been a little bit liberal.
She has cast away now because I needed a stadium. On Saturday, there's a bigger celebration of around a thousand people also at the Garden, and that's possibly a concert. Some people think, by the way, that neither of these is actually like the wedding, Like there's a quite credible rumor that they are already they've already exchanged their vowels and that both of these are kind of celebrations. I'll
tell you some other rumors. Stevie Nix and Tim McGraw, who was famously the subject of her first ever single, rumor to be performing on Saturday night. Stella McCartney has designed the wedding dress. As we know, Stella designed Meghan Duchess of Sussex's after party dress.
Iconic the whole to neck YEP loved it.
Kenny Chesney, the Country Star and Kesher have canceled their tour dates for exactly this weekend, so they're thought to be attending Kasher of TikTok Fang and that the company tasked with doing the garden for this are going to be engineering it into a rose garden because that ties in with the engagement photos. There's also a song on the album read called The Lucky One, with a lyric that says, choose the rose garden of a Madison Square.
She didn't have to choose.
She could have both.
She could have both because correctly.
If I'm wrong, not that I've been reading about this at all, there's no natural light in Marthon now, so she has to create all that. Yeah, and I've read reports about this firm that she may or may not have employed to do that. Who can basically create you a natural light seeming dome enclosure whatever you want anywhere in the world, like in your basement or whatever.
So I used it for my son's birthday party this weekend.
It's not sounding cheap. Sounding cheap, I don't think so. I want to know what we think ethically. Not that I'm looking for, you know, validation here, but I've seen some commentary that's like, let them just have their wedding, right, like this is true love and they just want to do this. I have a bit of a if you're going to have a huge concert Madamson Square Garden for your wedding, I want to share. You've got to share that shit. How I need to see Stevie Nicks singing some wedding.
I think both Taylor and Travis have what we call main character energy. And I think you choose Madison Square Garden. Yes, so you can control the photos, but also so that you can give us the photos.
Yeah, so you think we will because she has a very tight relationship with us swifty fans. Obviously, you think we will be seeing the inside of this event.
There is no way we're not seeingide of this event.
No, great, I agree, I think we're getting stuff. I will say, from the perspective of a wedding guest, I've got some feedback. I don't want a concert. I don't want to I go see Tim McGraw, I don't I If I'm at Taylor Swith's wedding and I'm one of a thousand guests, I need to be mingling. I need to be chatting. And you're going to make me stare in there and listen to live music, which is great. You're passionate about that, but I don't know. It feels very like is this a wedding room?
But it kind of works because Travis used to before he met Taylor. He actually used to plan summer concerts like that's how much he loves live music. So the two of them are just genuine lives.
She could have anyone she wanted. Paul McCartney is also rumored she could get Adele, she could get Bad Bunny. Could she get Bad Dunny. Maybe she could get Harry sALS, But she can't be Geuse awkward at the moment he is and bad Bunnies in London too. But you know for Taylor you would, you would rejig. You could get anyone in the world. It will be amazing. But also, yeah, a little bit over the top.
And I think you get to choose one like Brooklyn Beckham's wedding and Mark Anthony, like you get one, you can't. I just I don't need a full set list. I'm stressed.
It's for sure it will not be a cash bar.
No, no, no, no, I don't think so.
I saw a tweet this week which I have never related to anything as hard as I related to this. It read, You're in hell. You're staying with one of those families that seemingly never eats. They skip breakfast, lunch, rolls around and everyone says, I'm not really hungry, there are no snacks anywhere. Then they don't eat dinner until eight pm. I really related to this because I think
we've all had that experience. If you're someone who likes food, you've had that experience of staying over at someone's house and they don't eat breakfast and you're starving and you get increasingly hungry, and they just have nothing with which to make breakfast food with I don't mean to sound like an ungrateful guest, but that is a reality. It was interesting because one of the replies to this tweet sort of explain the mindset of people who live in
food free houses. They said, a few years ago, I had a friend who was visiting who was hungry every two hours, like a baby, Like a baby.
I'm the baby, the baby, I want to be fed every two hours.
And then there was this other great response, stayed at a house like this while pregnant, and they acted shocked. I wanted eggs and toast every morning. When I tried to cook it, they insisted they do it and seemed equally shocked. I wanted more than one egg. Claire, have you ever had this experience?
Yes?
But I also understand the other side of it, which is that I am very much if I'm in a house with a group of people, which happened a lot. The awkward thing for me is that I'm like, Okay, I want breakfast right now. There are eggs in the fridge, there are tomatoes, there, there's bread.
I am not.
Capable mentally skills wise of making a meal for the whole group. I'm not capable of that. I believe you couldn't slash. The way I make eggs is probably wrong for other people, and I don't want to assume I really.
Might change their lives. You might blow their mind.
No, I make eggs wrong, I like overcook them. I've had feedback anyway. I then don't want to presume and make everybody this awful breakfast, because what's worse not being fed or being fed something terrible?
Don't you think? Don't hosts just have to provide meals? Like if people can just stay with me where I live, I'm not lunch is hazy because lunch, I'm like, oh, I don't know. Lunch is a breakfast and dinner either cooking it or dinner or ordering it in or going out for You have to plan that, Like are there people who don't do that? Yes, you're one of those people.
Yes, and and the real no, see I just outsource it.
You'd be like, we're getting a pizza.
I'm an uber eats gal. But the weird thing is Jessie and Luca are very much I think it's about clutter. I think it's about mess if I don't want to clean up, so whenever people go to their house, they never have any food, And it became a thing where Mum would call me and be like, hey, we're going for afternoon tea. There ain't gonna be tea, so you still and get some chippies.
And Luca thinks that food is clutter. Food is never clutter.
No world, never never. He also hates waste, so it's a whole thing. I'm like, I'll take the waist home, don't you worry.
So if I go away with friends for a weekend, I'm thinking, where are we the baby? Yeah, I'm the baby, and I'm thinking, where are we having breakfast? I'm going to maybe do a bit of googling. I'm going to find a good cafe. I'm going to make poor Brent, who doesn't care. He just wants to shove something in his face, but I care what it is. I'm going to make him wander off with me and find it. I'm going to do that. And I've been away with
people who are like, oh, not interested. Maybe I'll have some black coffee, like fine, But then when i want lunch then and they're like, didn't you just have breakfast?
And I'm like, what do you mean?
There was hours ago? Yes, But then it also made me realize I do have some friends who are just food friends. Like the reason we are close is because we'll go out for dinner a few times a year because we like the same things and we like to eat the same kind of amount, and so it's our bonding. When we were in Tasmania, we went to two TikTok breakfasts,
like places that I'd see recommended. Well, I asked out louders and they told me, and then I'd be in We've been in line waiting for eggs and Brenda be like, why are we here? And I'm like, shut the fuck up, It's the best breakfast in town. After the break Miranda Kerr and her husband just did something amazing, or did they. My cockles were warmed by a famous Australian and their American spouse this week. And I don't just mean Jacob Alordie showing Kylie Jenner around Byron Bay.
It is not Kylie.
Oh, I'm so sorry. I am so sorry. You're so right. How could I make that mistake because obviously Kylie if she was in Byron Bay, she'd be with Timothy shallow May exactly. But have you seen I know we don't we don't endorse paparazzi. Of course we do not. But right now, Jacob A Laudie and Kendall Jenna are like having the basic Byron experience. They're at general store getting coffee, They're going out to dinner at such an such, They're
going shopping in main street. It's winter, it's quiet there.
It's kind of lovely, right, I think it's lovely. And they're very much wearing like hoodies and sunglasses and trying to not stand And am I anybody wearing a hoodie and sunglasses in Byron You're going to be like, Hey, that's Jacoble.
That's a really famous Anyway, I digress because that's not who we're talking about. But anyway, Miranda Kerr is who we are talking about. Australian supermodel and her billionaire husband, Evan Spiegel. They popped up on Instagram and probably Snapchat. But who would know about that except for teenagers to tell us something surprising. Here is what Evan had to say.
Everybody, Evan and Miranda here and today we are so excited because we're announcing a partnership with Undue medical debt to relieve over half a billion dollars of unpaid medical debt for more than two hundred and fifty thousand Californians.
One of the reasons we wanted to share this directly is because if you happen to receive a letter in the mail letting you know your medical debt has been forgiven one, you should know it's real.
Oh my gosh, it's not a scam. If you get a letter in the mail from Miranda Kirk telling you that she has paid your medical debt, it is not a scam. It is real.
That is wild.
Okay, I'll just give you a tiny bit of context, and then Amelia is going to tell me what this really means, because it's very American. I think what they're talking about is there is a nonprofit organization called Undo Medical Debt Right, and people donate to it, and it's not for profit organization that dedicates in buying up medical debt. So basically they buy out debt to let individuals be free of their medical debt, which is a big deal
in the US. Amelia, We're not really used to, certainly in this current moment, tech billionaires doing things that just seem to be lovely things to do. Evan is worth a reported three billion, if not more than that. This is an incredible thing to do, right. It's a feel good, aussy story, but is it. No?
I mean it's nice that they did it, and it's sort of like I bought an a copy of the Big Issue last week, and I think I should also get recognition for that. Is nice.
Yeah, and I just want it known. Whenever I donate to a GoFundMe, I always include my name. You know how you choose to do it and plea I'm like, no, no, no, I'll put my full name so that anyone's scrolling through.
Is that what Miranda and Evan are doing?
That they've done and they go fundly, Yes, this is my thirty dollar donation and you can see my name next to it.
So look, just a quick primer on how much this costs them. The headlines said that they had wiped out five hundred and fifty million dollars of medical debt. That's a lot. No, that's a lot. That is a lot.
That's half a billion. It's as.
Thank you the company, the nonprofit that they donated to. If you just go to their website, they say if you donate ten dollars, it wipes out one thousand dollars
of debt. And the reason for that discrepancy is that basically, if you've got a hospital in the US and you can't afford it, they keeps you a bill and then you keep not paying, and then the hospital sells that debt to a debt collection agency and then they come after you and they know that you're never going to be able to pay the full amount because if you could pay the full amount, you wouldn't have been at
the hospital uninsured anyway. So they're just like, give us anything, like, just give us as much money as you possibly can.
And could this be for anything from you know, you got hit by a car and broke your leg, to cancer treatment.
To having a baby, literally anything, And so the five hundred and fifty million is actually more like it probably costs them more like as little as five million, because I'm using the same ratio that the nonprofit has on their website. So five million dollars for Evan Spiegel and Miranda Kerr is equivalent to about two hundred dollars for someone who's on an average income, and like two hundred dollars is a lot, Like if I that's that's a
lot of copies of the big issue. Like, I think, you know, good for them, two hundred dollars is quite a bit of money, But would you make a video congratulating yourself for giving two hundred dollars to a go fund me for instance.
That's cynical though, right, because they're making a video, yes, to show that they did a good thing, but also to encourage other people to do a good thing. Right, No, aren't they Because they're raising awareness of undue.
That's why they're doing it.
And so they said, like they said, we did this, and then they said, if you're not aware of the great work on geo medical debt, do and then presumably other people can do it too. So it's like a promotion.
Okay, yeah, I'm sure it's raising awareness. But there are also rumors that Evan Spiegel is planning a run to be governor of California, which is a very important political position in the US. It's what Ronald Reagan was, It's what Arnold Schwarzenegger was.
Gavin Newsom is he the governor's Gavin?
It's exactly what Gavin Newsom is. And one wonders if this is not part of a campaign to introduce US to this warm and cuddly Evan Spiegel tech billionaire, because look, I just have to mention that in April his company Snap laid off sixteen percent of its staff and said that they would have AI replaced those sixteen percent of
staff and then their stock prices sored. I think there is one good billionaire in the world, and that one good billionaire is Mackenzie Scott, who was Jeff Bezos's ex Last year, she alone gave one third of all the philanthropic money in the United States, one third from one woman. She donated seven billion dollars in one year, and that is the equivalent of twenty thousand dollars for someone on an average income. Now that is what I call generosity.
She also gave money to these guys, so did John Oliver, the medical debt people.
And by the way, she didn't make a video about it, she just did it.
No this look, this is exciting development for me in the political realm because now I'm imagining Miranda Curis first lady.
She dressed very well.
She would be great for that.
I have been thinking Mirandaka has been around a bit lately, like you see her popping up doing a few interviews, and like, I feel like she kind of disappeared for a bit, and now she's she's.
Not the skincare brand, right, Yeah.
But I feel like she disappeared a bit in terms of like her own personal brand, whereas I've seen her re emerging talking about motherhood all of that stuff, And I wonder if that's also like emerging so that she can be.
A first FIO, just so she can somewhat humoric months.
Yeah.
No, look, that's cynical of me. It's lovely, it's lovely.
Look, I know what you mean that You're like, this looks like a big thing, but for them it was a little thing. But aren't we generally positive and encouraging about the mega rich thinking about other people?
You know? It comes back to taxes for me. I wonder how much taxes Evan speak Golt paid last year. I bet it was less than Prince Charles. Like, I just bet that he paid less taxes last year than King Charles.
I sometimes the cynicism worries me because, as you say, Mackenzie Scott has given so much money charity, but she is also the victim of this cynicism. Like Elon Musk has tweeted that she it didn't make any sense. Basically, somebody tweeted that she has made the world worse by giving away that much money, and Elon Musk is like, yes, I'm afraid I agree. And it's like what I don't understand,
And it's like we're muddying the water. Is so much about what is actually an ethical thing to do and not an ethical thing to do.
Because Elon must tweeted something, isn't he just muddying everything? Yes?
Yes, And speaking of Elon, you may remember the other week he became a trillionaire. He did very important, very important congrats he needed that notch on his belt, and a lot of commentary I saw at that time was about how a few years ago he put out a tweet basically saying, I will give the UN World Food Program billion dollars to solve world hunger if they can lay out how they would spend that money and actually
solve it. And people people like Elon Musk love this strategy because it's like, I'm so smart, you guys, You guys try and be smart, like you guys, try and tell me how you'd actually solve this. But I think you're idiots. With money, so he put that out there, and then eventually the World Food Program did come back with a plan of exactly how they'd spend that money, and they said they could actually solve famine rather than
world hunger, which are two different things. But because they responded in a separate Twitter thread and not the Twitter thread that Elon Musk had originally started, and Elon Musk said it had to be in that first Twitter thread,
they were the conditions. He never responded or acknowledged it, so he just didn't donate his six billion dollars and instead he bought Twitter and rebranded it to X, which I think we can all agree has been really important for humanity and has stopped a lot of people's stuff.
No, but you, the point you're making is like I should stop braining on their parade. It's just it's a lovely thing they did. It just makes me uncomfortable when I see rich people want my validation for doing the bare minimum what should be the bare minimum?
I do think it's very important to break down exactly how much it actually costs them and what the motive may be for that kind of public statement.
I'm just always happy that it's not just another yacht. Yeah, yeah, when I was in Tasmania recently famously Tasmanian multimillionaire David Wells, bit of a controversial guy, made all his money and gambling. He freely admits terrible for the world, Like terrible for the world. He is atoned for that by building a world class art museum in that city and arguably resurrecting the economy of that entire state, increasing tourism, putting something
really interesting out there. And he's on the record as saying I could have used all my money, all my gambling money, to buy yachts and more cars and all those things, but instead I wanted to do something interesting. Does he have selfish reasons for doing it? Yes. He likes art, he likes provocative stuff. He wants to have a legacy. He wants everyone to remember him when he's gone. Like, does it matter that it's a selfish reason if it has actually made the world better other than him just
having a bigger boat. So where any time you have an example, particularly at the moment when we seem to be in the thrall of people who are richer than humans have ever been before, and they are too and they're more powerful than governments, and they're more powerful than companies, and they're choosing often to use that power in ways that many of us wouldn't think was that good for the world, Like at least one of them or two of them standing up every now and again and going,
you know what, I also did this, Yeah, and.
It's going to make a difference to hundreds of thousands of people.
One argument I did see recently, and I saw it on Reddit, so you know, it's a very valid, research based argument was there was a question about why a few generations ago, particularly in America, a lot of the big names like Vanderbilts, like all of those Rockefellers, all of those were known for putting a whole lot of money into education or health or building hospital wings, whatever. And I'm sure that's the case all over the world,
but particularly in America. And someone said, why is it that we've got We've now got all these people and Elon Musk is focused on another planet instead of actually doing these initiatives that could make society better. And there was a really interesting argument that was, like again a cynical argument that a few generations ago, people, the very rich people, did that to create a bit of an
argument against the tax system. It's like, don't tax me, because look at all the great things I'm already doing. And so I do understand your point that if you look at Evan Spiegel and you think, well, mate, if you just paid fair taxes, then a lot of the social issues that you're now trying to repair could have actually could have actually been supported.
I can't believe that I'm defending billionaires here. This seems very strange for me. But one of the things is is I'm sure that some of those very very rich people say I do all kinds of philanthropic things, I just don't tell everybody about it. Taylor Swift is one of those people, right. She rarely tells people about the philanthropic things she does, but it sneaks out every now and again that she, yeah, she did funded a program in that city she was playing in, or did whatever.
The thing is is, if they tell you, they're damned. If they don't tell you, you assume they're just buying yachts. So well, somebody think of the poor simple ring.
I mean, McKenzie's got has threaded that needle, right, because she does release the report every year that says where her money is going. She is not releasing videos telling us all about how great she is. So I think there is an option.
That is all we have time for on this Monday. It is our last week of you, Clare Stevens, before you go off to have baby boy. Last Monday, we are going to treasure every moment of it.
I can't believe I'm going to miss Taylor Swift's wedding.
I bet yours quietly happy. She's like, no texts from the first at four am on Saturday morning.
I'll save my PhD for something else exactly.
But we're going to have a great week until you go. Thank you out louders for being here with us as always. Oh thank you out louders who all responded to the conversation we had on Friday about whether or not it was okay to pick lemons from someone else's tree.
The radical suggestion to knock on someone's door and ask if you can have one of their lemons. This is why we love out Louders, because I never would have thought of that.
It's true. The general consensus was no to pick a flowers from other people's gardens, but that you should ask, and people love to share lemons, so there you go. I don't because my lemon tree only has two lemons on it, and if anyone stole one of those lemons, I would cry. But that's because I'm not a very good gardener yet. Anyway, I digress. We will see you on Wednesday, and Mia and I will be back in your ears with scoreless gossip tomorrow.
Goodbye.
Mommer acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we've recorded this podcast.