Welcome to the Make work, Work Better podcast, where we delve deep into the minds and experiences of some of the most inspiring leaders in business today. We are your hosts, Mikayla Wallace and Dr. Marc Reynolds. We are thrilled to introduce you to our special guests, Dana Oaks. Dana, thank you for joining us today. Well thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Dana, tell us a little bit about your career journey. Sure. So my career primarily has been as a hospital executive.
I went to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill for my graduate school, did a master of healthcare administration there and a an MBA. And that set me up, to start with HCA. I was with HCA for 14 years. They're the largest hospital company in the United States and a very good place to learn hospital operations. They do it, very, very well. Have been at it for over 50 years, and it was a great place to learn from a lot of wonderful, seasoned executives.
And following my time, at HCA, I went back to work with, a former boss of mine before I went to graduate school. And he was running a lot of turnaround operations for rural hospitals and formed a company called the RH. And within RH, I was given, the title, President of operations. So I was running the company five months into that journey, the pandemic hit and we had big plans to expand our operations, and that really curtailed those plans.
And we were just trying to keep those hospitals afloat. And we had some very good executives at the helm of those hospitals. And I got to work with, local board members, who were members of the community who were doing a great job at trying to keep their hospitals in the community going and servicing the needs, which were a lot more extensive than they had been prior. because local communities had to manage a lot tougher, more acute patients than they were used to managing.
So we had a lot of patients on ventilators and in smaller, rural hospitals, they were not used to that. So I had five, rural hospitals and then a behavioral health facility in Las Vegas. And we had plans to expand and grow a lot more facilities out west. And that didn't end up happening as a result of the pandemic. And in the end, several of the partners decided to go different ways. And I ended up at a university.
They asked me at the university, in the town where I grew up, it was called Utah Valley University. If I'd come and help them head up a healthcare administration emphasis within their MBA program. And that sounded exciting. And they said, also, we want you to stay current and keep doing things in healthcare. So I got into, being a co-founder of a startup, which is an AI medical scribe called scribematic.
And I'm having a blast doing that, because I get to keep working with physicians and the latest and greatest stuff that's going on in health care. So it keeps my teeth sharp and we're having fun. What is it that got you into the medical side? What is it that you loved about it? You stuck with it too. So what is it that drives you that gets you up in the morning to want to keep doing that? Really, it's about the patient. For me, it always was. I, I cared deeply about the patient experience.
That's been the highlight points of my career, have been surrounding the people that I work with, taking care of the people that I work with and taking care of the patients. And I think it's a pretty tough career if you don't feel that because it's full of regulation, there's tons of pressure from every angle. You're serving multiple masters, and if you don't, at the end of the day, feel some satisfaction as a result of helping the patient, then it's going to be pretty rough seas.
From my limited knowledge, sitting as an administrator of a hospital would be a really tricky spot to be. You have doctors that are come from all ranges of humility to zero humility. you have everything from, you know, patients who are grateful to those that are really upset and disgruntled and traumatized by whatever they've experienced. and a lot of moving pieces of technology and people and and stuff. That's a lot to manage. Yeah, it is, it is a lot to manage.
And, you know, I'm sure there are physicians out there that would say the same sorts of things about administrators that some of us have zero humility and some have a lot of humility. I heard somebody say once, if you've met one doctor, you've met one doctor. I tried to remind physicians too sometimes if you've met one administrator, you've met one administrator.
Yeah. What are some of the lessons you've learned about how to make work work better for yourself or teams you have worked with, or that have worked under your stewardship? What a wonderful question. There are so many lessons. There are too many to recount, but the biggest thing I learned was that you have to care about your people and that caring needs to take the form of something that's visible to the employees and the team members.
They can't assume, or will not assume that you care about them unless you show them that you care about them. One of the ways that I enjoyed doing that was going to the spaces where people work. So if I wanted to meet with somebody, I would often arrange for that meeting to be in that director's office or in the physician office. I spent a lot of time getting in the car and going out to visit with my physicians when I was the CEO.
I would get to know their office staff, the places where they worked, and they would usually comment that that meant a lot to them, that if I wanted to have a meeting they weren't expected to come to my office, but I would go visit with them and sometimes just even popping in to see if they needed anything. and then I would write things down and make sure the next time I went, if they had a concern that I had resolved it for them and I could report back of what I had done.
I took the time when I was new as a hospital CEO. My first hospital CEO job was in 2011, and I sat down with each and every one of the directors in the hospital and got to know their pain points and challenges. And and then we did a daily huddle. And in the daily huddle, we would spotlight people who were doing a good job on the things that mattered to me, and to us as a team. And one of those things was the mission. HCA has a great mission statement, and it's, it starts out above all else.
We are committed to the care and improvement of human life. And so we would have mission moments, things that we would, highlight people for, their adherence to the mission. This is sometimes come in the form of patient compliments. Sometimes these were, other employees complimenting the employee. There would be notes and things, and that meant a lot to the fellow employees to be spotlighted. And then they know that you care about them. You care about the work that you're doing.
And I used to get up and spend a lot of time outside of my office just rounding and thanking people and telling them they did a great job. And I also enjoyed visiting with the patients. So, one of the things that I would do is stop off at the nurses stations and ask if there was any patient in particular could use a visit. Now that could have gone in very different ways.
so if the nurses were intimidated by me or my position as the CEO, they could have said, you know, visit, Mrs. So-and-so or Mr. So-and-so because they knew that that person would have a compliment.
But I, I felt very good a few times when the nurses sent me in to some of the battles that they were fighting, with very difficult patients and difficult patient satisfaction issues or things that we had messed up and gotten wrong as a hospital, and they felt confident enough to send me in there to apologize on behalf of the hospital or to, utilize my position as a team member and administration to make things right.
And what that said to me was, they trust me, they respect me, and they know that I have their back and they're not going to get in trouble for this. And I took that as a high compliment whenever they would send me into a troubled situation. Let me recap what I'm hearing here, and then feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
So what I'm hearing here is, number one counterculture move and not playing the power game of having them come to my space, my territory, but instead Going through that effort and taking the risk of going into their home turf as an effort to show them that you care and you value them feeling seen and heard, and that that is an important thing. It’s worth your effort to take the time to see them in their element. So that's a huge that's a huge piece of what I heard. That's that's amazing.
Another counterculture move that I'm hearing you say here is that you would go see patients and not only would you see patients but you wanted to be challenged to put it in the place where you could do the most good and help patients feel seen and heard. Right? Correct. So, so that you're going through all these things and you as executive, have made all your choices about other people and help them feel safe, loved, heard and valued. That's not necessarily a typical executive mindset.
Now, there there are executives out there, and I've been fortunate to work with a lot of amazing ones that are humble and and have that kind of servant leadership But what is it that kind of puts you in that direction that made you committed to that? Well, that's a great question. Part of it is a strength. And the strengths can be overused strengths. Right. Sometimes your greatest strength can be your greatest weakness when it's overused. And I feel like I was wired to just care about people.
And that made it very difficult for me when we had to go through things like layoffs or had to do disciplinary procedures. I remember the first time I had a disciplinary process, with somebody that I worked closely with, and I waited too long. That taught me a lesson. They were probably expecting it much sooner and got away with more than they should have. And I learned that not all people were wired like me. And you can't assume that somebody is wired the way that you are.
Some people have different strengths in different weaknesses. And that was an early lesson that taught me to be a little more bold in doing the uncomfortable things. Also, I learned that you do a disservice to all the other employees when you let somebody get away with something too long. They're hoping and needing an administrator or an executive to step in. And that included physicians.
I had a, occasion where physicians were stepping out of bounds and doing things, and most hospitals have, as a requirement of their accreditation. They'll have a disruptive physician policy. And those policies are pretty prescriptive or should be prescriptive about how to handle it.
When a physician does things that, are aggressive toward employees or make people feel uncomfortable, and it's often the fellow physicians who will thank you, for putting a colleague, in check a little bit, on their behavior. And it's the same thing with anybody who's working in an environment where there are patients, where there are, very sensitive life and death type issues. We have to work very closely together.
And so people need to work environment where there's a lot of collegiality and a lot of trust. And so when somebody violates that trust, you have to have somebody in the midst who will do the hard thing and, and take that on. That kind of thing early on in my career was difficult because, I'm a little bit agreeable by nature.
And so while I can talk up, you know, some of the strengths of, of being able to do what was easy for me and caring about people, the flip side of the coin is it was hard to do sometimes some of the very difficult things, but I didn't shy away from it and I knew that was what I needed to do. And it reminded me of Emerson a little bit. I thought of this quote all the time during my career that “that which we persist in doing becomes easier not that the nature of the task changed.
But our ability to do is increased.” And I've probably bungled that a little bit from the actual quote. But fundamentally, I got better and better at doing those difficult things. But I would do it in my way and in my style. One of my directors, early on in my career that reported to me, she gave me a book about getting results. And I remember it was a very thick book with lots of things. But what stood out to me was early on in the chapter, it said, a corporation, just wants results.
And as long as you stay within the frameworks that they have, they don't care how you get the results. And I found that really to be true. I mean, HCA was very into high ethical moral behavior from their executives. And I realized, well, they don't care if I'm super nice. I mean, they want me to be probably, but I also have to do the job in the right way. And so I found my own voice.
I found my own style and my own comfort level, and what I found was I was much happier helping other people to feel happy and fulfilled at work. And I'll give you just a couple of examples of this. one time I was in the post anesthesia care unit and I was just rounding. It was just me, and there was an anesthesiologist in there and a nurse and, I think I may have mentioned I became a CEO at a relatively young age, or at least, I looked fairly young to some people.
One of the, one of the doctors on the medical staff said, oh, great, we got Doogie Howser now as our CEO I took that as a compliment, but, he was sort of staring at me like, what do you know? How are you going to help us? one day, I was. I was rounding in the post anesthesia care unit. So when patients come out of surgery and and for the most part, that's fairly routine and just wake them up. But this one time, there was a patient whose vitals were kind of going down, pulse rate going down.
And I stood there and watched because it looked like the physician was starting to become concerned. And indeed, this physician, an anesthesiologist, she herself, being relatively young, was watching over the patient and doing a great job. But, I thought maybe she could need me to run an errand or something. I hadn't even greeted her really yet. I was just observing. And so I said, can I do anything for you? She didn't know that it was the CEO who was there asking her the question.
She was focused and assumed that I was a medical student. and she said, yeah, you can get out of my way. That's what you can do. She really barked at me and I said, okay, well, no problem. And I stepped away and she took care of the patient. The patient was fine. And then she looked over and realized who she had barked at. Now, the relationship between the hospital CEO and the hospital based physicians is often one of of really, an employer and employee. I didn't really think of it that way.
You know, there's plenty of other places they can go get contracted out there in high demand. But the hospital CEO signs those contracts. If they're going to work at the hospital, and I she gasped when she realized, who she had barked at. And it was pretty abrupt, I'll be honest. And so, she just apologized and apologized again, and I said, no, no, don't worry about it. I'm sorry, I was in your space. I was just trying to be helpful.
but I can see how, I may have been, in your way and she said, “No, no, no, I'm so sorry. I assumed you were the medical student, and I didn't know.” And anyway, I left and didn't think more about it. Well, I went back and rounded in the area about a week later, and that anesthesiologist saw me again and said, I am so sorry for what happened last week. And I said, you know, it's totally fine.
She said, “So, can I do anything for you?” And I said, “yes, if you don't mind, would it be okay if I gave you a hug?” And she said, oh, please, please. Well, I gave her a hug and the whole thing just dissipated because she could see that I had absolutely no bad feelings about it whatsoever. And my intent was to put her at ease. and I tried that to have people at ease in their jobs and feeling good about what they do.
I think that was such a great example of a CEO or an executive who wants to really understand their people and who cares about their people and cares about the individual circumstances and the individual things that are happening. I can only imagine being her, you know, freaking out. Like, I can't believe I did this, you know, of course it was the CEO, not the medical student. And just letting that be on my mind for that entire week and for you to see her, that you can offer her a hug.
I can't even imagine just how the relief she felt, like you explained. And I think that's very humble and that's very understanding. That's such a great example of a great CEO who cares about their employees and really wants to develop that trust. Thank you.
I think the other piece of that is if you are needing to deliver a tough message, but the majority of the time you're delivering praise and kindness, people will sit up and pay pretty close attention when your tone shifts versus if you're already in the negative tone all of the time, then it's easy to dismiss and miss something because, oh, he's just ornery today or whatever. But when it's at a place that that is not your usual tone, people will pay attention when things need to be said.
Did you ever have an experience when either changing hospitals or going to new medical facility where you could see the morale was low or the there was some distrust between the physicians and nurses compared to the CEOs and executives and how that changed as you started administering that kindness and trust to your employees? Okay. So, yeah, something that comes to mind for sure. When I was a brand new CEO, I had a large behavioral health unit and, one of them was an acute unit.
So out of 88 behavioral health units, one of these was a particularly, I think, difficult place for some people to go and be. And I wanted the staff to know that I cared about the difficult work that they were doing in their in the acute unit and helping people who really needed their help. And I wanted them to understand that I was not going to be a stranger to the unit. And I went on the unit, unannounced often and said hello to patients and talked to the staff members.
And, one of the staff members commented, it's been years since we've seen a CEO round in here. And I thought, first of all, that's too bad. Understandable, because there's a whole lot more to the medical center then that unit and they can spend their time elsewhere. But I wanted that that particular group of employees to know that I cared and understood the difficult job that they were doing. They felt that. And, we had some hard work to do in that unit.
And all the behavioral health units of the course of the next several years. We brought in a new director. We brought an all new psychiatrist. We created a really the first of its kind that I knew of, kind of a hospitalist, inpatient program for psychiatry, years ago. I think it's a little more common now, but, all of that, I think, was facilitated by the employees just seeing me there.
And then they became supportive of the changes that needed to be made, because they knew I cared about them and the work that they were doing. You chose to go to the hard place and put your time and attention on those people, rather than, let's make the easy thing shine and let's just let the hard things kind of fade.
I love that you said that you want them to know you care about their difficult work because, a lot of times you see the service level work or we see the best of the work or the easiest part of the work or the joyful moments. But wanting to care about those difficult parts of work is, a really big deal, especially to the employees. It means so much more to us as humans when someone cares about the hard stuff than the shiny, great, wonderful stuff about what we do or who we are.
That was awesome, I love it. Yeah, great. Thank you. I personally enjoyed this and I started when I was the chief operating officer. I got in scrubs and would go, out with the environmental service staff and I would, purposefully ask to go clean areas, that it would be looked upon as a little bit odd for a, chief operating officer to be there and cleaning. So I would scrub toilets. I would be doing floors. And the signal there was nobody is too important to do any work in this facility.
We are all here to take care of patients. And indeed, it got the attention I hope for. People would take pictures and say, well, this is funny, we've never seen this before. So clearly the company was paying me to do a job that often was at a desk or in relationships, you know, making deals and doing contracts and doing all kinds of things that were not related to cleaning because we had staff to do that. But part of my job I felt like was to curate, uplift and maintain a culture of excellence.
And I believed that that excellence began with people taking pride in the work that they did. I never wanted to hear somebody say, when I asked a job, what do you do here? If they would say, I'm just, followed by their job titles, I'd stop and we'd have a conversation. And so I'm just a registrar and I would say, oh, no, you're not just a registrar. Do you know how important your job is?
You're the first impression of the hospital or the patients that come in and you know, when they come in, they're coming in worried about a couple of things. One is the diagnosis that they may or may not know they have. And number two is the worry about that diagnosis. They may or may not know they have. Everybody carries that worry. And when you smile at a patient, even if you think you're just registering them, but you say, welcome to our hospital and thank you so much for coming.
We're going to take great care of you. And you may think that you're just registering them and taking a payment, but you're doing so much more than that. You're setting up the whole care paradigm as I used to call it. And what you're doing is you're making it easier for everybody that comes after you.
If you've made a good first impression, they will give grace to everybody after that, if things get a little messy But if you start off with a down impression, everybody's digging their way out of it. So your job is not just a register. And that would be a conversation I would have. I would have a similar conversation with anybody that was just an environmental service worker. No. Your job is to keep things clean. Infection control. If we don't have that, what would happen?
you know, just dietary and the list goes on and on. Everybody was important. So I'm hearing a lot of disruptive behaviors, positive disruptive behaviors. Right. that are disrupting patterns, expectations, and sending very purposeful communication to the entire organization that people come first. the CEO doesn't even come first above anybody else. That's a pretty revolutionary style of leadership. that takes a lot of dedication to making people, again, feel loved, heard, and valued.
I keep coming back to that, but that's what I'm hearing from your message here is that that is a strong piece of your leadership style. Have you met resistance to that? Have you met people being like, “what are you doing?” Or “that's not appropriate” or “you shouldn't”?
I mean, I could I could see a lot of executives maybe having an impulse to do that, but second guessing that and being like, that's going to make me look weak or that's going to make me, not look like an authority or have people respect me or take me seriously, especially since you're saying you kind of in your younger years were considered like a Doogie Howser vibe, right? That would be a real concern of an executive. But you just blew right past it. Towards something else.
Since you're you're also do the professor thing as well as the CEO and the startup thing all of the same time. Say you had a student that was in a similar situation, but was really struggling with feeling the expectation fill normal CEO expectations and roles. What would you counsel them? What would you say? I would tell them to get out and serve. You can't possibly manage your reputation as well as other people can.
So you solidify your relationships with other people by helping them feel valued and loved, and they'll have your back. So if if there's a group of people that are trash talking to you or undermining you, which is common in any large organization, things get political. People want power or where they perceive that there is power. They want to tear it down. Whether people are exercising the power justly or unjustly, it's just part of the way that it is.
And if you have people that are aligned with you, they'll take care of you so that you can get your job done and move an organization forward. I think fulfilling your job is getting everybody aligned in lockstep to move as fast as you can go, to get the results that the organization needs to have and in a for profit hospital environment, it was to take care of the patients and to earn a profit while you're doing it.
And those two things to be congruent and to work well, you have to have an efficient operation. And that means that you you can't over hire people. So one of the things that I respected and grew to really appreciate about HCA was that they did not, lay people off very often. You would see a lot of other organizations may hire and hire, and then one day they're surprised and then they have to just do a big reduction in force.
And I thought that was a major disservice to people that could have been recruited in and brought their families from far and wide. And then just, oh, sorry, we're laying you off. That's a terrible thing to do. So having fiscal restraint on hiring people on the front door and only hiring necessarily is actually a kind thing, even though some of our people felt very stretched. Often they were very stretched. But what made it okay that they were stretched was understanding.
I'm really important here, and I'm needed and I'm valued. If they didn't feel that when they're feeling stretched at the same time and they're dissatisfied, they're gone, and then you've got a turnover problem and then you're recruiting in and you're almost never able to catch up. those become self-perpetuating problems when you if you gain a reputation as being a difficult place to work.
Have you ever found a situation where you took someone and you could see that they were either causing problems within a team or the organization or otherwise, and were able to change the paradigm or change what was happening, to turn them from kind of a liability into an asset. Quint Studer who is a great patient experience guru we'll call him. He wrote a book called Hardwiring Excellence.
And I implemented a lot of things, at one of my hospitals from his Hardwiring Excellence book, as a lot of executives did. And that was really trying to turn some of those low performers into the middle performers and then the middles to high performers. And to accomplish that, you actually had to label them. You really had to sit down and say, okay, where are people ranking? And so then you could put together kind of a targeted list. This person is not doing real well.
And then you formulate a learning capsule around them to help teach them and bring them up. And if they're not responding, then, I believe it's the words of Disney, “You invite them to seek their happiness elsewhere.” and we definitely had that. We had both of those scenarios that happened where we were able to move people up, by mentoring them and helping them and helping them to realize that that they were needed and that they were important.
And then also, we did definitely have occasions where we we let people go. But I will say this about the letting people go. I had, a mentor one time who said they should always know it's coming. It should never be a surprise. And that hit me, in a way that says, yeah, that that is correct. That's the kind of thing to do. And that's what progressive discipline is all about. And it actually works.
Usually people will decide, oh, I got to fix this problem or yeah, I'm not going to I'll just wait for them to make it happen. But they've been told all along, you know, this means this. Don't do this. If you do this again, there's the door and this it's often over months and it's painful and it takes a lot of time, but it's very worth the process. If you had to share what you experienced as one of the biggest pain points as a CEO.
And then if you have potential lessons that you learned from those to overcome those, that would be excellent to hear as well. This may not be applicable to everybody, but some of the most difficult pain points are things that you really can't do much about. And then it's how do you live with it when you have no control over it?
And, and in hospitals and health care, it's a strange thing to have no control or little, little control over seasonality, over federal government, control, in certain ways that, that makes the job very difficult. There is one study that the American Hospital Association did that said, for every hospital admission, that comes in the door, that patient already has $1,200 worth of cost associated with the regulation to take care of them.
And, you know, in the United States, we don't take regulations off the books very easily. We just adamant pile things on and on. And so the poor administrators in health care today just have books and books full of things that they're expected to be managing and in control of. And so one of the most difficult aspects of the job was you would have an agenda set up for the day and you go, this looks like a pretty good day.
I'm going to do this, this, this, this and this and all the things that, that I would like to do to advance the culture forward. And you'd get a call and, you know, some inspector was here for this and somebody was there for that, and you had to deal with this fire and put that out. And it was just managing the unexpected day after day after day. And so that became for me, how do you psychologically deal with the unexpected all the time, and how do you get good at that?
And because I'm like on one personality test, I took the big five. And you're probably familiar with I'm 94% extroverted, so if it didn't work for me to process these things internally, I would just, you know, ruminate about it. So I realized that I need a very good team about me, and I had to touch base with them every day and go over everything and who's got everything and who's got this unexpected problem and where is it? What are we doing with it?
And then just taking the time to talk and discuss. That was sometimes a challenge with some of the more introverted folks who just wanted to be left alone to do their job. I got it, but I needed to process and talk about it. So we had to balance that, right? I think we're built as humans to need people, even introverted people have to externalize in some way, shape or form and having someone who is a good mirror or whether that's a team member, a coach or whoever, can make all the difference.
That's a really great lesson to learn how to use your team. to both communicate what's going on. So you're enhancing communication while also taking your own need into account of needing to externalize our ideas. So that's really kind of a cool solution of hitting all those things at once. Yeah. He also made a really good point about understanding things about yourself and who are you authentically. so you can find all the strengths in that.
And then understanding, okay, not everyone works that way. So how you can work with different personalities too is really important. You are a university professor. You're tasked with taking the up and coming generation and turning them into the leader that you have learned to become, and hopefully even surpassing what you're able to do So if you had to share a could put into the mind of every future executive, on the planet, some key lessons, then you could just say, here's my gift to you.
You now know this. What would those lessons be? I mean, I'm sure there's many, but if you had to choose 1 or 2, what would you say. Because I have the opportunity and privilege to teach health care leadership in particular, it's an understanding of the industry that I try and impart with the students. This entails the knowledge that I have that working in health care is a sacred privilege, and I use that terminology.
The word sacred is a heavy term, but if you're working in hospitals, as I did, it doesn't take much to stop and think about the kind of a different day that is the day of your customer. If you think of them as a customer. that's a very different day. Nobody woke up, and said, gee, I want to be admitted to a hospital today.
Yeah. It's just I mean, unless unless you are, you know, really excited because you're expecting a baby, but even then, you know, hey, this is going to be a little bit painful or a lot painful or a lot unexpected or, you know, there's still a lot of anxiety even surrounding the joyous event.
Yeah. So you have people entering the world and people exiting the world in your place of business, and it is your business to take care of that and make sure that there's a lot of dignity, and that people are well taken care of. So it is a sacred privilege. It's a sacred trust. And not everybody should be doing health care. But the people that do do it, they need to make sure that they're up for that challenge. And so that's one of the things I try and impart with my students.
And then I get to teach, just general organizational behavior as well in leadership courses. And then I often talk about making sure that we take care of people, that regardless of whatever industry you're in, whatever you're doing, if you're leading people, you're affecting lives. And that that doesn't stop at 5:00. What you did that day impacts not just the employee, but it impacts family. It impacts a whole lot of other people and other relationships. So are you elevating?
Let's hope you're elevating and making the world a better place. As soon as you have any input or power, make sure you're wielding it for good. I would have to guess that even if you were in the tech industry or you were in something purely where most are there just to make money, I have a hard time believing that you still wouldn't make it about lifting people's lives and feeling like it is a sacred trust to make people's lives better.
I think that's a core value that seems to be shining through what you do. So yeah, no, it is a real honor and privilege to be able to, to talk with you today. It's been my honor and privilege it has been awesome. Thank you for for taking the time to talk to me. Everyone, we look forward to seeing you next time. After this, we'll share with you some mini workshops where we break down some of the things Dana shared with us today.
Put some practical daily tips of how you can put these things into practice, and we look forward to following and seeing all these wonderful people you're mentoring up to change the whole health care business. So thank you for doing that. Thank you. Thank you.