¶ Asbestos Inspection Delays Job Permit
It's on the countdown . Okay , I think the lights gone . It's on . It's on . It's on how you doing . Man , good you Good , good Everybody . This is the Matrix Great Again podcast . I'm Eric , he's Andy . Andy , you were just talking off air about a really cool job he got going on . But bring everybody up to speed . You were telling me this the other day .
You were talking about a special inspection you got to have and you said you guys have this and I was listening to it and I'm like , no , and thank God I don't have that inspection . This is crazy . So give us a rundown on what it is .
Yeah , I don't know what the origination of this piece of legislation was . If you want to call it that . We have something that I think that it started at the Department of Environmental Quality and came down through the building trades for some particular reason .
I'm not sure why , but if you have any , if you're going to replace a water heater in a commercial setting Commercial being what ? Commercial being ? It's a retail space , it's a food service space . What about a duplex ? Well , duplex , no , so I think it falls into the same as boilers . It's like five family housing or bigger .
Or if you have another house within 660 feet , I'm not sure where that whole thing comes in District heating and residential Right . I think it came from district , the district heat side of things , like if you had apartment complexes like fourplexes that were a whole row of fourplexes that , but it's a house though .
So yeah , right Okay right , yeah , okay .
So you can twist this all you want , and I can't . You can't convince me that it still makes any sense .
Okay , yeah , you're right , I keep interrupting you . What is this ? What is this ? That makes no sense .
We haven't even said yet we haven't even said that . So I we basically have to have an asbestos inspection mandatory On the water heater , on the old water heater , and I , initially , I mean this has been around for 10 or 12 years now .
Only 10 , it seems like something that would have been around since like 1983 . You would think .
Yeah . So no , it's , it's relatively new , and so at the time , every all of the contractors in town were like God , this is stupid . Like we get it ? You know , if you got a big tank or a storage tank or an indirect , it's snowman boiler or something Sure Right .
Yeah , sure , yeah , no , we're going to get that tested and we're going to get that taken care of .
What we've got to do is I've got to hire a licensed debatement contractor to come in and do an asbestos test on this , on this water heater , and they come in and look at it and they record model and serial number and then they write something up and say yeah , no , it doesn't have any asbestos in it . You know , pay them a hundred bucks .
This is run by the mob .
It's got to be . This is a mob hit right here . This is what in the world ? So somebody else that you hit . So wait a minute , though there's even more , because right before we hit record , you're saying you can't , you haven't got anybody to call you back , right , and you can't move forward with the job . You can't , you don't have your permit .
And I'm like what do you mean ? You don't have your permit . You don't have your permit for the asbestos thing . So wait , no , no . Okay , let's catch everybody else up . Okay , you have a job going and you're installing what ? Some tankless .
Yeah , so we have an eight Navian rack system in this apartment complex right 127 unit apartment building 827 units , eight tankless . Yep , okay , eight tankless feeding into 500 or 485 gallons of storage , existing storage , existing storage . So that's all staying . We're basically taking out a 599,000 B2 AO Smith like Burkhead Copper Coil Boiler .
So there's two of those . One of them's like two years old and this one was like 10 or 11 , 13 years old .
So absolutely no asbestos involved .
Yeah , no chance , no chance at all , and so that , and that's that's the thing I mean . This is well , it's not even it's . It's it's 11 years old , not 13 . So it's 2012 Boiler . Yeah Right , that's the data manufacturer , so it's even potentially younger than that . Anyway , it's got a hole in it , whatever .
They said no , and they they came up with some , you know , wanted bids on stuff , and I said you know this ? This is probably the the best possible answer for this , because it takes you to the high efficiency realm . We can put eight of these in here and now . You're modular and we'll just leave that two year old ACE power boiler sitting there .
It's another Copper Coil Boiler . We'll leave it sitting there and just power it down . And if you ever need it , if , for some reason , we're doing maintenance on this , we'll fire that one up and it'll make hot water .
It's kind of a it's kind of a crapshoot that AOSmith Boiler has been shut off for more than a year , Right , and so they're working off of 580 or 599,000 BTUs on the ACE boiler and the storage tank and everybody's hunky dory , Just .
Oh , so they've got two boilers and you're saying one of them's been shut off .
One of them's been shut off and I so , in order to get my permit , I have to provide engineering data from you know , an engineering source .
So I had Navian hospitality services to help me get everything sized up , gave me the sizing report and we submitted it , which is eight of these Navians Right , and that's 1.6 million BTUs worth of input because of the Hunter curve , which , in my opinion , is probably the most skewed crazy . It just it doesn't make sense .
It's the total CYA of water heater sizing . Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . You know , in in reality , I'm looking at it going . Well , it sounds to me like I could have done it with three Navians .
Wow , maybe , maybe I don't know . You don't want to find out the 600,000 BTU's and 600,000 BTU's . I know , I know that's how I size my in my indirects . People shake their head and I'm like I don't know , I mean it's yeah , one , one BTU , one pound of water , one once , one night . Yeah , we could just do the math here .
So , anyway , you can't get your permit Install . However , you have been on site and you're you're like up right . You're ready ? Well , you're close . Yeah , oh , maybe they're plugged in and running . We're not exactly .
Yeah , I mean it depends on when this airs . This is well so here's where my dilemma is , that is , I can't get my gas piping inspection because I haven't gotten my asbestos inspection .
Oh this is not not gonna be able to fire him up today , like I was really hoping to ladies and gentlemen , we're talking about Missoula , montana and not New York City , not Chicago .
Yeah , where else is there mob thing not ?
Philly , running . No , yeah , so isn't this isn't Ohio .
Here we're not talking about , oh my god , this is crazy .
I have a , I have a permit like filed . Everything in my get , my applications in my sizing data has been submitted and we're waiting on this asbestos thing . And what happened there is that we've always used this local company . We've used them for years , and I called him last week and left him a voicemail and said hey , you know , we got this project coming .
He's usually super good , Like you know . You call him like the morning of and he's like I'll be there in a half hour .
No , it's like that he's like cuz he's got this racket going . That doesn't . That doesn't mean anything and they don't have . Yeah , exactly .
Right . Well , so he's , he's sorry , they're a fairly large dude , that's right . He's he's a fairly large abatement company . Yeah , so his guys are out doing stuff in the field .
But he's , he just pops out of the office and is like , oh , just run over and test it for you and that way you know , and then he'll hand me the thing right there and I take a picture of it and submit it online . And so he calls me back and he and he's like , oh , I'm sorry , I'm sorry , I'm sorry , I'm sorry , we're on my way .
Oh , jesus me , he should have done it before . You know , I'm feeling like it's gonna work it out for a month , okay , so I thought we'd be back in the morning and I said I'm like I guess I believe you're gonna sell a long comp . I'm like I'm so microphone-anda G objection .
My Robert , these other two companies that I've left voicemails for the one one , gal's like , oh , yeah , we'll have one of the guys stop by and take care of it . And I'm like , okay , wow , I haven't heard from him . So yeah , and so now I'm , you know , I'm looking at my permit and it's just showing open . You know , it hasn't been issued yet .
So technically , am I working without a permit . Yeah , yeah , technically I am .
I'm wondering about that for a second to be honest with you .
No , and that's that's kind of where I'm at is I'm like , well , you know what I'm in . I'm more waiting on a technicality here , really .
Yeah , well , it's like . It's like saying you're going to go , you're going to wait on a water heater permit , you know , like for your neighbor's house , yeah , like no , they needed hot water now . And then you know if we're gonna come look at it , we'll just do it tomorrow .
Like , who cares , you're still gonna , still gonna have every opportunity to come in and look at this , like you would have if you would have had the permit on day one . Yeah , or it's not , like there's no record of it . You know like , oh , we never did the job , yeah , I know and we're , we're , we're coming at something .
Before anybody adds me on this , this is 25 years of dealing with these things Like no , I don't need a permit to do the job right , I need the permit Eventually , yes , and ahead of time is ideal . It's ideal . Yeah , it's what I'm shooting for , right ? Yeah , but technically , yeah , but it doesn't change how I do the job .
I can guarantee you that , um some people anyway so that's crazy , so an asbestos like certification , negation certification , yeah well so that's this negation certification .
This is kind of what I was going going down , or going down this path here just a minute ago , when this first came out . You know , like I said I don't know if it's 10 , 12 years ago a whole bunch of the contractors here in Missoula decided you know what ? No , this is ridiculous , and it's not just Missoula , it's the entire state .
Yeah , a whole bunch of the contractors said no , this is this is this is insane .
Mm , hmm .
You know it doesn't even make any sense . And they're like so all the contractors got together and you know , let's say three or four of us got together and said we need to get ahold of the water heater manufacturers and find out what date they stopped using asbestos and their water heaters . Right , yeah , so we'll .
That way we'll have a little blanket clause to cover . You know Bradford , white , a O Smith and you know whoever your manufacturers are called , all of the manufacturers we could get ahold of and said can you provide us on your letterhead a date that you stopped using any asbestos containing components in your water heaters ?
And yeah , a couple of them were like ah , well , you know , you know like you want to admit
¶ Water Heater Regulations and Inspections
to using it , right .
And so then we , you know , we were like , okay , well , here's the scenario . And they're like , oh well , that's stupid . So you're not talking like a gasket , you're talking like actual amounts of asbestos , and it's , it's not . I'm trying to remember what the deal is .
I mean , it's not like they're going to go in and like , scrape the insulation , cover coating off and test the fibers on the insulation . They're , they're looking at the insulation like the jacket insulation of the heater .
Okay , you know , they're not looking at , or they're looking at refractory in , you know , you know , in a fire conch or a combustion chamber or something like that . What's crazy about this thing is that the way that the bill is written , it only pertains to water heaters .
Right , I could change out all the snowman boilers I want , and so long as somebody else has removed the asbestos there , there's no requirement , no permit requirement or no asbestos test requirement . It's just that it's stupid .
Well , I mean , I understand that . I mean like , yeah , you got to test the . The abatement of it is important .
Yeah , absolutely . I'm not negating that at all , but this is a 2012 water heater Exactly . According to their letter for that I recall from like 10 years ago they're like the , the . The most recent water heater manufacturer that used asbestos was like 1986 .
Right , and that was probably on like a gasket or something .
Right , yeah , it was like , yeah , it was like an igniter gasket or something like that , right , and so we put this pile of stuff together and said , hey , you know , we call all these manufacturers you know , like our day to day , whatever the ones that we change out like really frequently at like restaurants and whatnot yeah , why do we need to have these tested
every single time ? Like I've got , I've got water heaters that I tested when I've replaced them 10 years ago ?
Yeah , that night , now that I'm testing again .
The one that I put in 10 years ago .
What right it's ?
so stupid ? Oh my god . So , but the you know , then the city , I mean with their you know , doing their due diligence of making it , making it a you know , requiring it . I guess it'd be interesting to see if any of the other municipalities are actually following up on it .
Or , if it's so , missoula's enforcing it . Yeah , what's the next town over that you would be doing a job Like what's the next nearest ?
area ? Well , probably Boseman , three hours away .
You know , is Boseman enforcing it .
I don't know , and that's what I . That's what I'd have to call and find out . I mean , helena , I'm trying to think of like which which towns or cities would have I'm gonna call it a bona fide building department , callispell . You know , they're two hours away . Hamilton's an hour south of us .
But the last time I did a lot of commercial water heater in Hamilton , the guy asked me what the seismic braces were like . What's an earthquake strap ? You need that ? Oh , you're the inspector , buddy . I don't know , do ?
I . Whoa yeah , interesting , so interesting . Yeah , I just had a Speaking of inspections . I just had a tankless inspection as a week ago , and the inspector was . It wasn't an argument by any means , but he was like , truthfully , like I've never seen this piping before and it was the polypropylene vent pipe .
Oh yeah , on a central term and I'm like you've never seen this , huh . And I'm like I know it's new ish for North America . It's not new , by any means , right , but it's not common , right ? Yeah , but I've been using polypropylene venting for gas boilers and tankless and whatnot for like Five or more years .
Yeah , I think well , yeah , I would say yeah , real consistently . I mean , we were doing that was on those chimney flexes For at least 10 , 12 years now .
Yeah , yeah , but like just so straight sticks in my , you know , in my possession . That's what I was ordering the when we switched over to Veeceman . That's what we had to go with . And what ? How many years is that now 2018 ? Yeah 2018 was September 2018 . I remember that was the first install of the 100 series for me .
Yeah , I was polypropep .
Yeah , so at least that long Full time , as far as you know , venting goes anyway , that doesn't mean anything . This is I've never before and I Don't , I can't say for the future , but I've never before Worked in this town that this inspector inspection was in .
It's like this tiny little pocket of land that's like Landlocked by this lake , you know right , lake Minnetaka and the and this . This is just weirdest . Like they've gobbled up every bit of dirt that isn't covered
¶ Manometer Testing and Inspections
in water and made Housing out of it and that's a little bit . Basically , it's like islands , almost okay , with land , bridges and this little bit . This town is called Excelsior and it's Like not even it's so small . I don't know what the population is , but it's a couple hundred houses or something . I don't even know .
But anyway , the inspector was really cool . He's like what's this ? And he's like , can I see a piece of that ? Because he was like jet , you know he's probably checking to just make sure really .
But , and he looked at the install .
He's like , oh , it looks nice , who we see your gas test . I'm like , absolutely so , because we , like I've explained to you before , we use a manometer to show that there's got leaks . I was a manometer is like the perfect way to do that .
Yeah , and so I'm putting the manometer test on and this guy , like very many other inspectors , wants to see me put it on and Then so like they watch you from the start of the performance of the test .
So they see that you're not like .
You know , trying to cover up a leak or something like that , I guess , and then they'll usually let leave it on for like 10 , 15 minutes while you're , while they're looking at other stuff , yeah yeah , the test , the verbiage on that manometer , that gas test , is for you know , the duration of the test is stated .
As For the duration of the inspection , like so that's basically . It's like however long the inspector wants it to be . You know , right , be a minute , it could be 15 , 20 minutes , whatever . Yeah , so it's reasonable .
Though , however , and so that you know , watches me set up the test , and then we walk out of the basement up to my van and I show him a piece of this center from the polypropylene . It's like , oh wow , he's writing down the numbers on it in the name . He's like I've never seen this and I'm like , cool , I'm glad .
I could show you something new today , mr Inspector ?
Yeah , you know , that's .
I guess I , you know , I commend those guys , those those individuals that are out there doing that , the code inspection stuff and compliance inspection , because it is , it's a thankless job . I mean , oh god it's nobody likes them . Nobody . No , and I'm like , yeah , okay , I could see how this could suck real bad . You know , and I've , I don't know .
I feel like I've got a good working relationship with our both of our local inspectors that I deal with primarily I don't say just that there's two , but there's two that I get very regularly that don't do the mechanical and the plumbing inspections , and those guys we get along , I get along on great with .
I mean there's , there's several other building , you know , like full-on building inspectors that are doing the framing inspection and that stuff that will come in and you know cover for those guys and we get along with those guys just fine too . But I don't know , I get , you get sometimes where you get a .
We had a county inspector here not long ago that we were doing we put gas tied in .
Yeah , like , not , not , I say that , I say that like it's some sort of like , yeah , revelation , huh , do you tell , we ran like a 60 foot piece of half inch gas tight from the main line to a fireplace , yeah , like across the crawl space , sure , and Anyway , we got a pressure test on it and the pressure test got five pounds on it and I'm like , okay , I
mean that's Friggin , ten times the working pressure that we're gonna have in it at any given time . Actually , it's 40 times higher than the working pressure .
And so anyway , we get out there and With a guy that I owe the , my tech that was out there , put a zero to 30 pound gauge on the system and had five pounds on it and the guy's red tagged it failed , failed inspection . And I'm like what ?
does your gauge isn't like 25 percent , or ?
something like that . We were in the lower third of the gauge , yeah exactly .
Yeah , you got to be like , was it 50 percent or ? Something like that I remember yeah , yeah in the middle third , middle third .
There you go , perfect , yeah , perfect . And I was like you gotta be kidding me , right ? And I'm like , so I call the homeowner . I'm like , hey , do you got an air compressor ? And you know , guys , just pretty handy . He's like , yeah , I'm like tell that , you know , because the inspectors on the call had called me .
And I'm like , hey , just hang tight just a minute there , just just wait a minute , yeah . And I'm like you an air compressor . And the guy's customers like , yeah , I'm like go out and put 30 pounds on that .
Yeah , like bump it up to 30 , put it . Put that needle down , gauge .
Yep dead center in the middle of it . Yeah , put it at 30 pounds and then let her rip . Yeah , that's like that's not hurt anything . I'm like , no , it's fine . No , that's just rated to 100 to 100 pound test pressure .
And we test the 60 pounds for 25 minutes . Really , yeah , yeah , might as well . Or 60 pound . Well , two hours , that's what it is , two hours .
You play , but that's that's . That's a requirement , because you're over half pound , isn't it ?
No , it's just you know , look , let's , let's think about this . No , you're right , you're right in what you're thinking , but let's just stop and think about testing . And we have the advantage of talking to people all over the country right , you and I and everybody else because of social media and we see these tests being done all over .
I've seen these guys over in , like mass Massachusetts and they're pumping it up with like a little hand pump bulb thing to like ounces , and I'm like , wow , okay , cool , that works for you guys . And my inspector is like no , you got to go 30 pounds for two hours or whatever the hell it is , or 60 pounds for 25 .
I don't know and and I always get it mixed up , and that's why I say , and I don't know , I do know , but I always have to look because I can never , like when I want to say it in conversation , I can never see the right terminology , so anyway , the fact of the matter is this it's so far beyond the working pressure of the system that if you don't have
a leak at , let's say , 10 pounds , then you don't have a leak at seven inches . Yeah , Right , and so I . We , we tested a really high pressure and yeah , you say , well , that's cause we're running like two pound gas on the high side . You're right , we do . But so 30 times the working pressure is necessary for a test .
You know , like that doesn't mean so I got to pump it up to 60 .
You know like it'll never go beyond two , five , two pounds a couple inches even you know right . And so , yeah , it's , it's interesting how that goes , but yeah , so we we have to test it up or pump it up pretty high , but it also that's just the way it is .
It's like you said , it's not even that big a deal , cause , like you just called your home and can you throw some air on that ?
There you go . He pumps it up and the inspector's like well , I'm going to have to wait here and watch this . And I'm like , okay , that's fine , that's just fine .
Good on you , yeah , yeah . And then the next time you're like Rob no , I shouldn't call up Rob , but I'm going to say Rob , just because you know . I know Rob , and he's going to laugh when he hears that , rob , we got to get you some gauges . I don't know how many gauges I've bought and lost over time . Oh my gosh , there's so many .
You run a gas line there , like we want to put a barbecue on the deck one day . Can you run a gas line ?
Heck , yeah we'll do that .
Yeah , and then you have to have an inspector . You have the pressure gauge sitting there and then , like three years later , they still haven't called you back to put the gas grill in . So like there's my gauge .
There's your gauge , yeah .
That's why they're so cheap and garbage . Yeah , it's probably leaking . Oh , probably , yeah , probably just sitting there leaking Leakin compressed air .
Your test apparatus is leaking .
That's just that . How many gauges have you put on there , like I think we got to leak in the piping , like no , it's the gauge , it's the Schrader , the Schrader valve on oh . So not a better way to do this ? There isn't , unfortunately , there isn't apparently , clearly .
Well , not more efficiently , you know Well . So let's back up and be real . Yes , there are much better ways of doing it . However , they're significantly more expensive and , as you just mentioned , you're probably going to leave it on the job for two or three years .
Yeah , exactly .
Yeah , nobody wants a $25 test gauge .
No , no , yeah , I mean like repeatable , like yeah , it's not uniform , I can come up with a better system .
Maybe what we need is here's the invention .
Okay , we're inventing stuff now . Mta podcast . Close your ears , because you can't use this work . Copyright , copyrighted , patented . It's all done . Okay , go ahead Playwrighted , all that . It's better be good .
Yeah , this better be good . What if you had , like , a quick connect adapter ? That was no gauge , right , you push the thing on there and then each inspector had his gauge . That was like a digital gauge .
Okay , this is a shitty idea . This is never going to work .
No , but you could have your gauge , yeah , and I could have my gauge and all your guys .
How about we just make ?
it Bluetooth . See , there you go . You walk up and go , bleep , bleep , bleep . It's just a digital little like an air tag .
A little yep , a little air tag sensor thing . Yep , and nobody even needs the for it just works on your phone . You don't even need to remember your little adapter . That way when your guy goes out he doesn't have the wrong gauge .
Right . Every time he's got it's digit , you can be like , oh , I got . And you could walk up if you were . If it was super sensitive , you could just leave it on the gas all the time and you'd be like , hey , we got seven inches , 7.2 inches , yeah , this is .
This is I . I credit you for like at least 30% of this idea . I'm the one that came up with this . I kind of pushed it over the edge there . Yeah , okay , I see , I see Money bags . Pockets are deeper , so that's actually . That would be sweet .
So a Bluetooth or local wifi , yep , gas pressure sensor that you could use for monitoring , for testing , monitoring , verification , troubleshooting , boom , I could just stand in the mechanical room and be like what's sensor ? One say , oh my God .
It could screw right on the dirt leg , on the cap for the dirt leg , and you could walk up and just tap your device . Click . There you go . Who installed it ? What permit , what date ?
Dirt leg . That that's a don't don't say dirt leg too many times , because then somebody will be coming in and be like that's a , that's a moisture , that's a drip leg for moisture . And then some other guys are going to come in and we can't even put those in your hack
¶ Plumbing Testing and Inspections
and they're like okay .
You ever see those comments ? Oh , I do . I just can't help the one that baffles me . Talking about gas piping and like getting crazy , like crazy talk . They sit like I don't . I don't know Was it . It's either in Philly or New Jersey , somewhere in northeast . Okay , they have to insulate their gas lines on the roof .
Yeah , somebody told me that too , and they're like because of the water , and I'm like , uh , like wait , I just I just had to let you what . Yeah , it'll freeze in the wintertime . I'm like , do you understand where I live ? If gas freezes , it's going to freeze where I live . I'm going to tell you that right now .
Yeah , yeah , no , I'm the , we're the same . And I was like , did you just insulate that gas line and paint it yellow ? And they're like yeah , we have to where it's code required and I was like , hmm .
That's kind of like the asbestos . Yeah . Injection on your water heater , yeah .
Yeah , that's an equally dumb thing to have . Yeah , it sounds like a sounds like a bigger bandaid for a smaller cut .
I'm trying to think if there's anything that I would say or admit to or whatever the terminology being that Minnesota requires I think is silly , but I can't think of anything . To be honest with you , I know , compared to like a lot of the country , we don't test any of our DWB . We test it all in air .
Anybody who tells you otherwise , it's just job by job basis , because we don't test with water Like everybody else fills their system up and that's a better system , that's a better way to test it .
Yeah , I admit it , we're the same way . Well , I've read you that thing the other year , a couple of weeks ago , where it says now it's optional for underground piping , it's optional for us to test it .
That's , that's excuse me . And here it is . Now I don't have to test my piping anymore .
Cool Right from the department of labor and industry .
I just saved like an hour on every job .
Think we have a spot on that . Yeah , so I don't know , I'm still testing it , yeah .
Good for you . I would recommend that . Yes , yes , because I am also testing pipe that I put in and it's going to get covered up and I'm going to be checked on . You know , we still have to do it . Well , so then again we come back and we do manometer tests on the waste and vent , and we don't do that .
You take the tube and you stick it through the toilet trap up into the air of the trap that's weird Water in it . Yeah , and then you blow into the tube and you shove it on your manometer and there you go . Has to hold an inch , Okay . Usually if you have a tight system you can get them to hold like four .
So you put like a blow up ball in the you , yeah you block it off at the front main . Yeah , and then the caps are capped .
Yeah , vents are capped , and then so every yeah , I did a video on this a while back . I think it's actually interesting because people don't understand like they look at , like even just the look on your face . Now like what ?
Yeah , I've never seen it done other than your , but it's a good system , if you think about it , because now what we do is we have to air test . Well , okay , so we have to test our rough and like I already said , we air test and we don't use water .
And the reason why , if anybody's wondering is because it's winter time seven months of the year here , yeah , there's no water on site . You are not going to have water Right In the winter . And if you put water in the system , where's it going to go Like ? What are you going to do ?
Yeah , you don't have a functioning drain system , or yeah , exactly what if it's a septic ?
system . You're going to just dump you know a few hundred gallons of water into the septic tank when it's 30 below no , that ain't going to work , but anyway , we use air . So , yeah , on the final though . So what we do , this is what I was taught to me and I think it's actually .
I'm really thankful that these it's so simple , but I see guys struggle with it all the time .
You get to that You're going to , you get sent out to a house , new construction , you're going to set fixtures , so you're there for the finish , and what you do is you ball off the main , and then I have this little fern coat with like an adapter with a barb fitting in it , and I can put my manometer tube right on it .
And so I'll go put that on a waste outlet at a sink somewhere . Everything has been capped off on the rough end . I have to go cut off a cap , put my little fern coat on with my for my manometer . My roof caps are on my front main clean out is bald off . So I'm I've got a closed system . Yep , there might be tub traps , however .
So , like you got , let's say , you got two stories or basement tub or something that's already in place , right , sure . So you have to pour water in some something . You're going to have to pour water in a floor drain . You're going to have to pour water in the tub or shower , okay Yep .
Now everything is capped and you can't put air on it because you've got water in traps . But you can blow inches of water , column air pressure into the system . So we put this little adapter on our our way saw and we blow into the tube , shove it on our manometer , and we just got these OD plastic or churney , you know manometer .
It's like just a clear plastic tube with a yeah , with a friggin ruler on it , right , yeah , and . And you just see that there's no leaks . Or you see it drop , right , and you know if it dropped it's because some trim guy or drywall guy hit your pipe . That's just basically what it comes down to .
Or the first thing you do is you run to the master bedroom closet to see if they put the organizers up . You see them put those organizers up with that hand jig thing , the big plate they put on the wall , and they just start going what , what , what , what , what their drill ?
You know , you've seen that right , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah yeah .
Yeah . And then you see your plumbing wall . You know they take their four inch long bit and just they're practically drilling through the other side of the wall , right , right , anyway , yeah , regardless . Anyway , so you do this initial test to verify you know I'm in leaks in your system and it's it's . This is smart , though .
Here's why Because my inspector is going to come . After all the fixtures are in place . Sure , water heaters on gas , everything is done . And for me to get my plumbing final , I have to show them I don't have any leaks . If I have any gas . That's my job . I have to show them there's no leaks . There's a separate manometer test on that .
And then I also have to show them that the waste and vent system is is completely leak free . After all , the fixtures are in place . So not only do I not even put a toilet on a flange , I've tested to see that I have no leaks before I do anything . And then every fixture I don't do that with traps , that's a lie Every toilet I test .
I put a toilet on , I feel I get a bucket , I put water in it , I go back over to my manometer , I blow in it , I look at it and I go okay , wax rings good . And then , and because here's the deal , you don't want to get to , you don't want to set let's say , you got six bathrooms in a house .
You don't want to set six toilets and be like , oh shit , we got a leak . Which one is it ? Yeah , you know what I mean . So we do it one by one , but anyway , that's how it works here . Anyway , that's a lot , we got a lot . This is the inspection Episode of inspections . Yeah , so that's how we do our plumbing inspections here .
The gas Any new piping we run for gas if it's new and we have to air test it for a rough test . And then like if I put in a new tankless and I had to run a new gas line to it , that inspection for the water heater , for the tankless would include a monometer test on the gas . That makes sense .
I don't have to air test that line , it's right there , like I just put . You know they're not going to make me air test it and then come back and do a monometer , but on the inspection they're going to make me test it .
Yeah , I've never seen that monometer test on gas either . It's so simple .
The ideal way to do it is to use an analog monometer , because these digital monometers are great , except for they . You'll watch it drop and there's no leak . And then you put your analog monometer on , it doesn't move . For a week it doesn't move , and so like these digital .
Because of that pump , I don't know , something doesn't work , though it doesn't work quite right . I never use my digital on my tests , but that way but yeah
¶ Assembling Rack & Balancing Valves
there you go .
There we have it .
Just like that . How confident are you you're going to get your asbestos inspection ? I have no idea .
And largely I was thinking about it last night and then this morning . I don't . I would like to say that we're fire off ready today . We got a lot of stuff left to do .
So you're three day . This will be day three starting day three , starting day three today . So you're going to have the eight unit or the eight tankless rack system .
I mean there's a lot of work in that , basically , headers and everything for like a manifold , the rack manifolds , the Navi link manifold . Basically , day one consisted of disconnect piping on the old unit so that it's ready for inspection . It's still ready for inspection , yeah .
And then we started assembling the rack and we've recognized early on that where we wanted to put this whole rack , it doesn't fit and so there's some duct work that's up above . That was dark , dark corner of a mechanical room and I didn't recognize it .
That it was going to be there . Oh yeah , All your venting is all off the top and takes up a fair amount of space .
There was going to be a service clearance issue . It just weren't going to have room to put it in there . So we talked to them and there's a massive mechanical room . It's kind of a mechanical room maintenance shop , you know . I mean it's got a bunch of eight inch heating main stuff overhead and chilled water lines and it's a pretty significant system .
But we ended up finding a good route for it and by the time we got that , I mean it was probably , I don't know 1130 . By the time we got the go ahead on the that location , you know talking with the building owner and the maintenance manager and you know getting everybody to sign off on it .
So we were putting the rack together and doing some other stuff and you know looking at , trying to like figure out like well , where are we going to get power , where we run condensate to ? You know how does how do all these things work now ?
Yeah , no that you're not putting in where you thought you were . Right , yeah .
Right , so I think we got everything dialed in . You know so how it's going to run . But yesterday , so basically by the end of the first day , we had , um , all eight units on the rack , all the both headers on the rack , um all the service valves , flexes , balancing valves . Hey , so here's one for you .
Did you know , on a Navian rack system , pumped or multiple it doesn't even have to be a rack multiple Navians pumped , like if you're pumping from a tankless to a storage tank that you have to have a balancing valve on them ?
What's the balancing valve ?
that you're using has to limit the flow rate to a maximum of four GPM .
Through the unit .
Yeah , and I'd never seen that before , and so we're working with this .
So the unit's not . You're not using a pump .
The , the so these are ? They're S series . No , they're S series . So you have external pump external pump Yep , that pumps all eight . Aquastat on the tank Yep . So we go all eight or all , none it's . And then they . Then they'll modulate down as as their temp reaches .
You know , as the Delta T on the unit's drops , they'll say , okay , well , we don't need to run quite as hard , and then all eight of them will start backing down . So is it stainless pump ? then , yeah , well , bronze , it's a 2400 series pump , which I wasn't super excited about , but it's one , it's . It's a pump that's easily attainable .
Yeah , and it's not $2,000 pump .
So yeah , yeah .
Interesting . I didn't know that Well .
I haven't done it , so no most I've ever done at three units .
Yeah , and that's usually we've done a couple of threes and you know several twos , but yeah , the this one that was . So this Victor at Navian was like , oh , hey , don't forget to do this . We were starting to see a lot of guys forgetting to do that and I'm like , oh , I did just . I didn't even know what valve are you using for balancing .
We're using that Kalefi . Uh , what the heck do they call it Quick setter ? Yeah , Quick setter . The one with the little ball bearing yeah , that's what I use on my research and everything .
I think those valves are great . They are great and and they're and that .
the cool thing about it is that they make that and it's lead free , so it passes . Nsf 61 G you can get it .
you can get any kind of connection on it you want , Uh-huh .
Just about , you cannot get threaded for it . Yeah , the Kalefi does not make a low lead threaded . Oh , low lead , I'm not even sure .
Yeah , it makes sweat and press .
But I was like God , I just , I want to thread this thing right onto the header , yeah , and then it makes sense actually , and so anyway . So I ended up with TACO , um , three quarter inch , whatever the UFT 075 , the threaded adapters for , like , the 006 E pump . That is the same as a G union tailpiece .
Well , the Kalefi has those unions for their but not lead mixing valves .
Not not threaded , lead free . I think they are , I think they have , I think they're just .
Max and I went , Max and I went round and round about it , oh really .
And all of a sudden he's like no , you're right , we don't make thread free , we make sweat and press and pecs , and Well , I've definitely used them on water heater mixing valves ?
I can tell you that , yeah , with a check valve , with a check valve .
They do , they have it , but it was . It was like oh weird , I put leaded fittings out in people's houses .
Imagine that they're all going to die . There you go . They're 0.0025% lead . Is that's right ? They're all going to die ? No , probably you heard it here , folks . Yep , just kidding . I have no idea if I am or not . I could be wrong .
Yeah , I , because that's where I was like , oh , I'll just get , I'll just buy a couple of angle mixes . And then I was like , oh well
¶ Feedback and Topic Ideas
, angle mix comes in press connection and sweat connection . Well , they sell each of the tail pieces separate .
Yeah , that's how good in stocks them now . So when I buy an angle mix , I buy the tail pieces I want . I'd be curious because I we may have overlooked it .
but we like say , max and I were going to kind of try and figure out , like what's the difference , like how the heck do we do this , like this ?
So anyway , I'll check it out . I have to verify that . Actually , I wonder . I've definitely used a female adapter , but I've also . I've also ordered them to take a . Ones were less expensive .
Oh , the adapters . Yeah , for what I'm coming a little too packed . Yeah , All right , dude , we got to kill this Anyway good luck on your .
It's the best what's that I said . more to come on the tankless rack yeah we're going to get an update on this saga now . We're going to turn it into one . That's right . Everybody thanks for listening . Leave us some feedback . We'd love to hear how you like the show , so give us a rating and helps other people find us . We do appreciate it .
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