Directed by… Paul Hoen

So I think I always start these Park Copper episodes by saying we have a very special episode, which makes it sound like it's in eighty sitcom that always does the very special episodes. But because all these episodes are very special, and man, do we have one today for.

It just so lucky to get the coolest ones. I mean, this is just yeah, this is big, this is big.

We're lucky to get anybody, is how I look at it. We're lucky to get anybody. But with some of the people we've gotten, it's amazing. And we often hear people saying, oh, I really like the ones where we talk to the actors because you get that point of view. I've heard a lot of people saying, oh, I like when you

I mean that's not Haryperberly. I mean literally.

Literally has worked with so many I mean, if there's ten of them, this guy's worked with nine of them. He is seriously, he is literally just I mean he gets and what I love and you'll see when you meet him.

Well, he's so humble and so just. He loves what he does. He loves it. He absolutely enjoys every aspect so well.

I cannot wait to get the dish on certain movies like, oh, I don't know Luck of the Irish. Oh yeah, jump in Eddie's Million Dollar Cookoff.

I mean, there's what redd and weep? Oh do we mention the entire Zombies franchise and.

Still going pretty much has not slowed down.

And then there was another one I'm missing that nobody watched some other something about the cats or girls.

I chet a girls one World as well.

One. Yeah, few people did watch that one.

Your old friend is joining us today, so I'm like, one, I love these because I'll ask a couple questions, but I'm going to sit back and watch two old friends talk.

I can't wait. So this is going to be so cool, So everybody, please please please.

A big welcome for one of the coolest guests we've ever had, Director Paul Howan.

Hi, Hi, how are you.

I'm good, Thank you so much for joining us. Sabrina has been singing your praises since we started this podcast.

More than kind.

Well, as I was texting back and forth with you, I had no idea.

I mean, cause I guess I just.

Kind of have a few years right of when I was part of the channel of what I was involved in and got some of the names of the dcoms you did prior, but had no idea all of that.

I mean, your list is just ridiculous.

Well, you have worked with every major star I swear from the channel in one of these movies, and a lot of times, I'm sure it's amazing for you to watch them after because you kind of start like you're there when they're starting these huge careers that they end up having. So I mean, and anyone that we have got, we've gotten to do quite a bit of zombies of those actors who've got to talk to them.

We talked to Corbyn Blue.

I mean, everyone just praises how fun you are to be on set with, how awesome of a director you are, and just your vision is something that they talk about every single time, which I love because I walked on a few of the sets of The Cheetah Girls One World, and it was like, how did he see this like, oh my gosh, it's giant, it's amazing.

Okay, so good.

So anyways, thank you so much for gracing us with your presence.

Paul, Wow, thank you for that movie, because that was the first movie I think that I dealt with kids that were a little bit older.

So we could go to the after hours hotel.

Oh yes, Oh, I can't wait to hear those and commiserate over.

Our It was different.

Well, I mean I remember drinking warm or lukewarm, at least vodka sodas as well.

You and I were drinking.

Because then you don't drink ice and you don't have ice in your drinks.

So it's just like it couldn't do it very many.

It just was I don't know. The life we had there was absolutely wild.

And you guys were tough. I mean, you were there.

It was not an easy shooting experience, at least what I recall. No, I showed up day in and day out, and I remember when the guy's hair caught on fire and you walked up to me and went, Paul, I'm going to go blind with the.

Okay, wait a minute, we got all right, so we've got let's start at the beginning. Because I want to get to obviously, we've got to end with guys hair on fire. Right, How did you get into this side of the industry? I mean, had you worked for Disney at the start of your career or can you take us back to the beginning.

I think the very beginning.

I was working on a show called Well, you know, I was just a PA and I wanted I had gone to school to be a director, but you know, you get out and you kind of like, I got to learn to make coffee and make sanwiches correctly, right, and so, and I when I finally got good at that, I got on this show called Kids Incorporated, and I was an ad and I moved my way up to

Anyway, a whole bunch of them.

And then they wanted to do these movies and they needed somebody who knew how to work with kids on these movies and bring them in on time and budget. And I think the first movie I did was Lucky the Irish and Now.

Yeah, Ryan Merriman turning into to Now. We rated it high. You know, we rate all our movies. We rated it high. We thought it was a little odd that the thing they were having trouble telling him was that he was Irish. Yeah, they finally sat him down and say, yes, son, in fact, you're Irish.

Why a secret? Why is it so horrible?

Tell him that he was eleprechn which I got a different type of Irish. Right.

It's so funny that you're you're bringing back names for my past because I was original. I was an old school Nickelodeon kid back in the eighties, and Rich Ross was was very important in my early career. When I mean I got slimed up on the original You can't do that on television set.

Yeah.

So so the the old school Nickelodeon then moving to Disney is very similar. But you I mean, some of the best shows on both networks. If you're talking kids in court, it just seems like wherever you are the future stars of all of Hollywood Army.

Well, I don't know if it's me, but I'll take I did my part and and you know, I definitely was a teacher and I think and helped those I think, you know, everybody has it comes to the table with a certain amount of talent that I can't really teach.

But I can go, hey, here's where this is the aspect where you're awesome and you go with this because this is your star power right here.

So I think that was And of course there's technical things which I learned along the way.

And I'm a big kid, I'm old, but I'm still.

I feel the same way I always tell Sabrina, I live my life by the rule that there's a very big difference between childish and childlike.

Yes, So okay, so then when you moved then to.

Disney from Nickelodeon, did you notice a big difference in production style between the two different networks.

I think the one thing which I really loved about Disney is that it's a little bit more girl focused. And when I say girl focused, I think it's just a more of a gentle hearted type. Like I think girls are a little bit more sophisticated at that age.

As far as story goes.

And being empathetic to characters and and so for me, like for Nickelodeon, there's like, you know, big gags and sweat and slime and you know, and all this kind of stuff. But really for something to be successful on the channel, it has to be sort of appealing to the heart. Like I always talk about the suffering soul, right, Like these lead characters are not They're going through I Am an aspirational journey, but they're not really enjoying themselves

Be who I really am and what my father wants me to be?

Or you know, I part of this group musical group, but somebody else wants me and should I be part of that?

You know?

So how do I navigate life? I think is something that Disney does well. I'm not sure that there are shows on Nickelodeon that touch on that, but I don't think that's their primary focus. It's comedy and and right hop and gags and things like that, you know, which I've done a lot of and I get it.

Yeah, yeah, it's got its place.

It is one thing we say over and over again as we're watching this movie is that Disney knows how to put across a storyline and a message like no one else we've seen, especially when it's gearing towards this age demo. So even if you know, maybe Will and I don't necessarily relate to it, we can relate to it on where the character is because it's such a good message. You know, even if it's not the greatest movie that's been made, it really is a good message

How did you do it?

Because I don't think at that point Luck of the Irish had big budgets quite yet.

Up to that point did not?

Right, how do you make that woman so tiny?

Like?

How did you do it with the budget that you guys were given? I mean, and it looked great everything that we saw in the movie.

The whole top, Yeah, the whole sure, for sure.

I don't know.

I think just in general, that's something that I'm really good at as far as saying, Okay, it's going to cost us this amount to do this, Is this really worth it?

Or would we rather not spend it on this?

You know?

So if you look at the basketball sequence, for example, you know, the camera's awfully high.

And you don't really see a lot.

Of crowd right, so because there's not a lot because in the beginning days Disney was very focused and and not it kind of went wayward as.

As it went along a little bit more, but it was like, how are we going to do that?

You get this many extra you get this package of toys and that's all you get, and and how are we gonna you know, you know, do this and I don't want to get it onto cheater girls. But I mean, you know, it's the same thing where I got off the plane and was looking at Udaipor and went like, holy, where is a Disney Channel movie in this place? You know, because it was like a sob laden's like compound.

Wait to see this one. I haven't so I'm watching it order. I haven't seen it yet.

It won't look like but I'm just.

Saying I haven't seen I haven't.

I've seen Cheatahirls one, and we're kind of watching as we go because again I'm a little too old for some of the dcoms. But uh, well, that's the one thing I've noticed is that if if something is a good project. Again, I think this shows a difference between Nickelodeon and Disney, and I thin here one hundred percent right, Nickelodeon and its content has its place, and it's a wonderful,

But at the same time, when they hand you one.

Of these dcom scripts, I mean again, I know there's a very big difference between say A read it and weep and a Zombies. Is the first thing that's going through your mind, okay, casting it properly, or is the first thing that's going through your mind budgeting it properly?

Neither?

I think the first thing that's going through my mind is Okay, who's the lead? Hopefully it's clear what's the story, what's at stake, and are we dramatizing that story the best we possibly can, Because you know, I can throw a lot of bells and whistles at things, fire and whatever effects. But if I'm not like, if you're not, you don't keep watching these movies because of oh wow, there.

Was a big explosion.

It's just not It's not why you watch it because you're engaged in that character and.

You want to know.

So I'm looking at the script and I'm going, Okay, how oh this is what this person is going through? Are we doing the best situations to highlight.

The journey that this person is going to?

And I just think if you have kids and you watch them watch these movies, they all they do is look at the character's eyes and what's going on inside their head as the movie's going on. You just look at all these kids. I think, you know, I watched my own kids as they were growing up, watching them. I've seen it a hundred times. We're all focused on oh, wardrobe and hair and makeup and steps, and I mean,

I'm focusing on what are you thinking about? Now? What are you afraid of? Who are you as a person?

Because these kids, they see you getting hurt and they they want you to they root for you and that's why they and they keep watching because they get to the end and it's ninety minutes. Not a long period of time, but boy, a movie that doesn't have that ninety minutes can seem like an eternity, and it canad We've gone through the eternity before.

Yes, we know that, we know what that drudge can be like, it can be pretty uh pretty grooel yeah.

Yes, So so you want the music and you want the heart and then after that, you know, writers love to write crazy things and then it's kind of like, oh, this is cool.

I think we can make this look good. I don't think we can make this look good, you know.

You know, I don't think a lot of the stuff we did with Ryan was you know, raising other people on apple boxes and there was really a low budget kind of making his clothes bigger, kind of the legs off of or raising the dresser up and he's like below it.

You know.

So there's a lot of little tricks that are in that movie.

That the giant seatbelt. Then you make a giant seat belt.

We made a giant shoe, you know, we did a we a giant metal you know, things that were sort of old school that you would have been done before visual effects. We you know, we did there, But really what's great about that movie is just Ryan and those those kids, you know, they they they just committed and and they were funny. And So there's one movie where that I watched that I definitely don't have a sense of me, which I think is a big, a big thing to happen in a movie.

When it gets to the point where.

You're like, oh, I don't remember that, or or I'm engaged in something that I didn't really remember, you know, or was part of, then you really know that the movie has sort of taken on a life of its own, and it's not just you know, you say this line, look here, do this or whatever.

At what point or what movie I guess once you started getting into because it seems like they just started.

You went from there to I think it was.

Read It and Weep was shortly after that, and then you've got you know, Eddie's Million Dollar Cookoff and jump in all these different ones. At what point were you going, man, like I am the go to guy for Disney, like I am shooting, I am doing all of these movies.

Maybe like last year, I think there's a lot of I think there's a lot of times where people go, oh, don't you want to do this or don't you want to do that?

But the thing I love.

Is working and making movies and trying things and trying to make it the best that's possible. And I've never been All of those movies have drama to.

Them, you know that. You know, there's not a movie that doesn't have a story.

Of behind the scenes craziness. Sometimes it's with the network, sometimes it's cash related, all the it's not really often cast related, but you know, there's always and I'm just very passionate about the project. And I think for a while it was like, oh, I can't do it with these guys anymore. And then finally I realized, like, you know what, I'm fricking lucky, Like I like, I make a movie and now it's I'm still hanging in there, miraculously.

I don't really know how.

But it's just I get to make a movie sometimes two a year, and I really get to shape this thing and it's completely satisfied. At the time, it's like horrifying and there's like, oh my god, this is this is going to be a disaster and what am I going to do? And fighting with you know, I mean Gary marsh and I had many like arguments, although I respect the.

Man, sure anyone, but of course there was like.

Arguments of this sometimes that this might be the last movie I'm ever gonna do ridiculous over this up drama. But then somehow you end up waking up and you go, well, you know, I had a career, and I think I would not have traded I know that I would not have traded it for for anything, because you can do whatever. You know, some Harry Potter movie or whatever. I mean, that's pretty famous.

But and you do.

There four of them in the life of that that you know you have and I've done you know, over twenty I think at this point, and I think I always feel like I'm going to do it better next time, or I this was bad and I'm going to make sure that I don't fall into that trap again.

And yeah, that's the sign of that TRR artist, never never being, never being happy.

I just I just want to be better and do better. And you know, now I'm they've changed everybody.

At the channel. Basically there's nobody that's nobody, you.

Know, and and you know, I'm going, well, you know, we tried that once before.

Here's what happened.

And you know, and I'm trying to like gently lead them to you know, you think you want that, but let me tell you.

Really because we tried it. We tried a lot of things.

Right now, I'm curious, were you ever over your career, and again we've talked about the films you've done. Were you ever handed a script for a dcom and you're like, no, not doing it, not going to do this one, don't like it, not going to happen.

Yeah, twice.

Well once I was like the first time I didn't. That second, well whatever, the movie with that girl, the space girl what was her name, xenon Non, Yeah, the one that she goes to the moon and she's floating on I just read it and I was like, I can't do it. And then there was a monster truck movie that they had that I was moving along with it, but I could not get them. You know, the message seemed to me in the script.

To be.

If you learn how to hold if you're a girl, a Southern girl, and you learn how to hold a fork and wear a nice dress and get a guy, you will be a great monster truck driver, and I guess I could not.

I have nothing, No, of course I could not do it.

We heard that it was a possible sequel to Motocross, right, was that?

Was that?

The one?

Something like that was it was a monster truck movie.

They had bought it and and you know, we had we were gonna shoot it in Louisiana, and it was all really interesting to me, like the situation. But I really wanted it to be like the movie, you know, where she's a cop and she doesn't.

It's mister geniality.

Yes, I really wanted to shape it to be that, and.

It just was not happening.

You know, we're getting it, and the executive at the time, we're not getting it. And finally I just I also thought that it was way too dangerous and they weren't going to you know, like with these giant trucks are like going to probably me. They finally shut it down and I went home.

Well, that leads to a good question, then, which is you said that maybe sometimes the writers don't get it, and you know, it's a creative process all the way through, but as the director, especially one as respected as you are at the channel.

Now, how much input do you have to the script in the story.

I think I have a lot of input, And there's arguments, and writers love their little vignettes and their things, and but what I love is how somebody's talking to somebody and how they're interacting and with how they're feeling vulnerable and things like that that are in the script. And and so I'm always like, we need to do this, and we need to hold this back a.

Little bit, and you know, so so it's I you know, a lot of you wish was you know, I.

Basically took that script and I cut and pasted it. I put in blank pages and said, we need a scene that's this, And you know, and the writers, you know, they asked for more money to do it.

But they did it, and and then you know, I'm proud of the way those that they turn out.

Yeah, I mean, I know it probably changes film to film, But what do you feel like your typical timeline is before you actually hit hit the ground running with actually filming, like going out to set and doing it. How much time, like I mean, for writers for you to be able to go through and cess out changes that you see things that you need to be done to the script. How much time is that process before you go? And again, I know it's changes, but what's like kind of a normal, a normal.

Timeline that you get brought onto the project.

There's like an eight like it's all sort of set. There's the director portion of it, which is all sort of set by the DGA, which is I think eight weeks, and then shooting is you know, they give you it's like it used to be only twenty five days, and then I think they started to realize that it's ridiculous that we're just putting this lid on this, so that

So by the.

Time the you know that was beginning whatever eight weeks starts, you're already pretty much deep into the line is kind of blurred nowadays, and you know, the Zombies thing, I'm still after I'm done with you, I have looping still to be done, and every Monday and Thursday and Fridays I have the effects to review.

So the things go on now for it.

You know, used to be like six months of your life and you're done. Now it's kind of like a year of your life. Almost two and you're done.

Jesus. I want to get to Zombies obviously because of everything that has become with that franchise.

But what was the first musical that you did?

And was the musical something that you had any experience in, because now it seems like you're one of the go to for the big lavish productions. Is this something that you had experience with before? Or were you kind of thrown into the deep end with the camp Rock movie.

No, I wasn't. I well, I love musicals like as I. I wouldn't be in this business if it wasn't for a girlfriend I had in eighth grade took me to a play Two Gentlemen of Verona the musical, and I was just like, oh my God, like what is this?

You know?

I just so to me. I thought it's the coolest.

Like I thought, oh, I'll be an electrical engineer or some stupid job that I was probably going to.

Be unhappy with.

And then I saw a musical and I thought, oh, this is I want to do this. I've never seen anything like this before. And my parents were doctors and in the medical profession, so I had like nothing, wow.

They I don't think they ever took me to a musical at all.

Oh wow.

Oh.

So they were not big theater people.

And so the first thing I did was I did Jump In, which had some dance and it was more stunty, but it had some It was kind of a hip poppy kind of movie.

Yeah.

And then then the the first musical I did was actually Cheetah Girls.

They yes, that was wow. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was. I'm pretty sure.

Well I'm sure it was Cheetah Girls because they were a little like, I don't know, you know about is you're gonna be able to do it? And then I did that that boat song you know where you were in the Swans on the Fountains, I can't wait, And Michael was like was running around showing like the cut to look how great this is going to be.

And that wasn't even like a crazy I mean performance, it was a performance routine, but that was more theatrical and like telling the story of what our characters were going through.

Versus being like like cheatah love, I love me some cheata love, I can't wait.

Will loves the movies like Step Up and stuff. When he sees when he.

Sees it's me if you can't he's good love. Oh it's good. It's a battle. It's a battle for.

A long it's a long battle, so long, it's a long song.

It was so this is like the stuff that I was kind of telling Will about working with you and showing up to set. Of course, everything we went to in India was just so big was there. Everything was so grand and such a huge scale. We were filming at palaces and you know, it was just it was it was unreal. And so we're walking up this big step these this big driveway because it was too steep I think for like even really cars to go up.

So we walked up.

It and came across those well I don't even know what they're called, but they were like the pole like the yes, and it was the dancers were practicing in it, and the lighting and the background.

Behind the dancers.

We were just like, holy cow, like this looked like me walking up it looked like a feature film set.

It was.

That was so amazing, and then you know, we have our dance and it was it was so fun and.

The whole movement of the camera. Oh, it's so good. I really loved all of our musicals. Well, that's I.

Mean, that's a good question then, is how I mean, do you have to approach shooting a musical differently than you approach shooting a film that is it musically inclined or is it just kind of the same process just on a different scale.

You know, it's it's it's almost the same process. Some parts are a little bit easier, in some.

Parts are a little harder. I mean, I don't know.

You know, the great thing is that you have a choreographer and so you know I can go. So for me, it's like wow, when they'd be great, here's a budget and you can imagine what a dance might be like here, and then you end up working with the choreographer who who lays it out basically and rehearses with the cast. So for me, in that sense, it's just like oh wow, yeah, and you just look at it.

I don't have to do all the blocking and write us on this line.

And do this, and because if you saw me dance, you would, you know, still be better than me.

We had a fantastic choreographer. We had Fatima who had worked with Black Eyed Pete. I mean she's worked with just everyone Big and Missy Elli, everyone, everyone, So her and the sets she's always been on for these giant movie videos or music videos are huge. So her eyes, like she knows exactly when she's choreographing what she's wanting.

She films.

It brings I mean, you came into rehearsal to see everything, which not always happens when you have, you know, a director, like they don't always come in right at the rehearsal time. They kind of just see the films, and you wanted to see exactly how we were interacting.

It was.

It was such a fun experience in such a crazy everything.

She was the most uncommunicative person that I think I've ever worked with, but I totally got it like I would she would, you know, she'd show me the dance and then she pushed me over here and and I think Bamboo, remember he was the ad, said to me at one point, do.

You have any idea like what we're going to do.

When we get on this, nobody else had seen everything, and I go, oh, yeah, it's gonna be fine. It's there, she's going to do this and it's this and you know, don't you know, don't worry, and then you know, and then then it was, you know, I think she had ideas and I did those.

And then when I felt like there was we needed a little more pop or.

Something, then you know, I'd going, Okay, let's just do this and this is gonna, you know, help this situation. So I, you know, I she's amazing and I think she was an amazing person and to work with, and I don't know, it's just sort of a relief kind of to have somebody to walk. There's a large part of the movie is taking care for you.

Yeah.

Yeah, so do you I mean then do you prefer doing musicals over non musicals?

Uh? I do. I love it, And I just think, you know, it sets to me.

You know, when something's happening, you know, you can't talk about it anymore.

You have to sing about it.

That's what usually this is, and that's kind of in my realm, right, you know, when when the drama is happening, and it's too much and you can't there's nothing else you can say.

You got to sing about it, right, So I think that's.

And speaking of the resurgence, have you been following in the Minnesota Vikings at all and what's been going on?

Which was very weird because I remember sitting there on the set and they were coming in and there's just a march into camp and I told Rosario, I go, dude, we gotta they gotta they can't.

Just come in here like walking.

We got to come up with some stomp like something or other. And he's like, okay, okay, give me a minute. And then you know they did it.

So that was like basically.

Basically only it was like a thing and just and you know, they all pulled it off.

And the Jonas brothers were very intense on not dancing.

Yeah, you know that was their life because they saw the first camp rock.

Yeah hit their sticks, which I thought.

Okay, that'll work.

Okay, So now we've got to get in to zombies because this has become a phenomenon, I mean, absolutely huge, and and you know, in all fairness is I'm surprised Tona did not lead with this. For me, musicals where people just break into song and dance out of nowhere were never my favorite thing. I'm always the guy going, did you get together early in rehearse?

How did you know to break into dance?

Like?

Never really got it? He can't let me let it go. And then we started watching These and Descendants. Okay, those gray it was nice with the.

High school music, and then we got to Zombies one and I loved it, and I did.

I loved everything.

It was such a clever story, a world I'd never seen before, the music work, the romance work, the acting work.

And so I'm curious not only how.

That project came across your desk, obviously the way that they normally do, but is this one of those things by this point where you know what something's going to be when it's handed to you.

I mean, could you tell what this was going to become?

No?

And so you know, there was another director that was on that at the very beginning and had shot or I think thirteen days or something like that, and in those thirteen days he had managed to be ten days over budget, like they just kept you know, and I thought, oh, you know, it's I was with my friend and I'm helping him do an adu and I'm just like this, And I go to get tacos and I leave my phone and I come back and there's this long chain of panic text from from the network saying what are

Can you call me? You know, bah blah blah blah blah. My agent then called. They were all like they're all looking for you. Like it was just like this panic of one hour. When I was eating cocke, you know, I.

Look at my phone and I go, oh God, I gotta I have to take this call and what are you doing? And I said I'm nothing, and they go, can you would you be interested in we're having problems on this set. Would you be interested in in? Could you fly to Toronto tomorrow start shooting, meet the cast on Sunday, and start shooting on Monday.

And I was like, uh, okay.

And so they had a script and they had shot some scene. So I looked at all the scenes and I thought, uh, this looks kind of interesting.

It was a little weird to me, you.

Know, because there was a lot of pink and blue, and there's a lot of jazz hands and the acting was way like over the top.

In my offensibility you know, and I was, you.

Know, and then I tried to figure out, well, am I going to be there with the other director?

No, no, he's going to be gone, So okay.

So I came there and basically the entire time that I was there on that first thing, but the script had all pages were all like mixed up, and there were ideas like we're going to take out these three scenes and move all these three scenes together, but they were just shifted and he was keeping the script from the channel.

And they had Chris.

Scott, who was the choreographer who you know, I totally admire and who's done Wicked and and you know, he was good friends with this director. So I came into this situation, which I have to say, it was completely There was a lot of the cast it was like what's happening?

Yeah?

And then I just showed up on Monday and basically just took it a day at a time and basically just sort of prepped and try to put together what he had.

Shot, what had been planned to be shot.

I tried to There's all issues with the kids because they were showing up and not working, and you know, to me, I just tried to make it put all I could into it. But I did show it too. I showed the rough cut to my son, who at the time was young, like he's seven or eight and a boy, right, and he watched it and put his hoodie over his head and oh, Dad.

Gotta take it. You got to take your name off this.

Movie, the first Alan Smith in the history of.

I go, oh, come on, man, you know, like, but you know, a lot of the things that are appealing to boys in that movie, like.

The zombieing out and a lot of the effects and the world. You know, I don't know. I saw like what it could be, and I thought it.

Was they did something you know, where they just hadn't done in other movies where they just they chose a color palette, like it or not. You know, it had rules, and the world had a definite I could see what that world could look like. And they created a world of zombies and they had the great mythology to it. And so, you know, for me, it was, okay, how can we just give this some scope because I think

And let's let's see. You know, you did it for me like one take and I go, yeah, just keep doing what you're doing.

Take us to the day.

How much anxiety did you have when he said, no, Paul, I have to be the one that jumps through that giant poster.

It has to be me.

How well as a director, no, you're not going to just like injure yourself.

Well, we've got so many days left of shooting.

Look, but it was so good, so well, like well, I was fastly.

Sort of surprised by things that I don't know that I necessarily would have gone okay, Because I walked into this room that had this big, huge like runway that was built like it was thirty yards long, and.

Two things of this poster that they had printed which were huge.

And boxes set up for to crash into it, and I was like, what the hell is this this is literally spent all this money just for him to run through this post. The whole thing to me was and it was a visual effects thing, right because he didn't actually jump through.

He jumped through the size of a thing that was his head.

But then it had to be put on to where the poster was actually hanging.

Oh couldn't. You couldn't actually build it, you know the way, So.

You definitely mean that. We got to interview him, and honestly, I don't know how.

Long it's lasted, but he absolutely loved and is so proud and like that was his favorite thing that he did on that first movie, hands down.

That was it.

He was like, that was the most amazing thing. I cannot believe I convinced.

Paul to actually let me do it because.

There was somebody hired to do it.

Yeah, he convinced him, Like, no, no, that's got to be me.

I'm like, oh, okay.

I believe it.

I feel like I couldn't convince you to do anything. You were like, are you sure? Like yeah, I got this, You're like all right?

Or he is.

Either just an incredibly talented guy.

Yeah, And.

There's always like it's not just that that he does that I think it's crazy. It's all the other stuff, the tumbling and the flipping, and then you just ask him, oh, you need to make an entrance here can you do like some back layover thing and then ended with the jazz hands.

Okay, So the movie comes out, it's a smash hit. It becomes kind of one of their big tent pole franchises for the for the channel.

Yeah, what can we expect from the new one?

Well, what can I say about? Definitely handoff to some younger talent.

Okay, we've heard, We've heard that.

Yeah, we we have new monsters that we have God, I don't know if what I can say, like the Super Trouble your Penama.

The is the the chip the chip in your neck from Disney is going to explode?

Yes, I know.

We have vampires and we have day Walkers. We have two fantastically talented kids. One Frea who's in it is She's she's very unexperienced and wonderful and he hasn't done nothing.

She is a trooper.

And then Malachi who's on he was on stuck in the middle, and I think on the Villains of Valley Square that right, also talented, and you know, it's it's you know, the idea is we're just trying to grow it and I think it's a handoff to sort of a new generation of bombies fans.

And it's a new world. It's a world of vampires and day walkers. You know.

Day walkers control the power of the sun and vampires control the power of the wind.

So they have this elemental thing about and we shot it in Zealand.

Yes, that is so rad.

I feel like Disney hasn't gone to New Zealand And forever.

Since Eddie's Million Dollar Cookoffs.

Really, so you've now gone twice.

I've gone three times.

Three times. Where's the third one?

That was you wish?

Okay, Eddie's Million Dollar Cookoff, and then it was this one I tried to get back sooner for because I thought zombies. It seems like the right place for zombies because it has a little different of a world already.

Yeah, there's a lot of.

So so I really pushed to go back there, and it's changed a lot. But it's a great place to shoot. We had a great crew and I think you'll love it.

Okay.

It compared to shooting in a vegetarian village, as you did in India.

Do you remember when we went.

To that the vegetarian village? Wasn't everything vegetarian?

Didn't we No, there was chicken, chicken, Oh, you're.

Right, I think we had chicken screws.

It was when we stayed at that Prince's palace, remember he had Oh yeah, I gotta tell a little this story.

You don't see any of this part in the movie at all.

But we walked into the Prince's palace that we're staying at. We're literally staying at this place, and one of the rooms was his hunting room, and I just like remember, I was like like they were everywhere.

He had a table.

Like giant hunts, not not small, not not even buffalo like, these things were giantormous. And he had a table that was sat on like on animals, like feet, like hoofs of different Okay, so we had already had kind of different things that would happen with catering.

The food did not sit well with me anyway.

So now we now we don't even get to have chicken, which was fine sous basically eating peanut butter and apples at that point. But we were walking around and this place was so it was so such a cool experience.

It was different. It made some of the things with production hard. But the village hadn't had anyone like us around. So it's me, Keeli and Adrian walking around and we might as well have been purple, pink and blue.

Like.

They had never seen someone with blonde hair before. They had never seen someone look like Kiley, like our whole you know, our whole crew that was from the States that was there. The filming for me was just eye opening of Wow, we're really going to be in a world for Disney that they haven't gone to before, and this is going to hopefully open the eyes and you know, Disney will hopefully expand here and all this stuff.

And it just felt like when we were.

Doing something India Disney Channel.

So that yeah, yes, geez it, synergy Disney.

It was.

It was awesome. It was fun because things just weird stuff kept happening.

Stories could just do it.

I know they asked me for stories. I'm like, I don't think I can tell.

Any like, but that place, for example, I was like dusting off a file folder in my office and we had to move out of food I pour for and I picked up these pictures of this that location that were like in the bottom of a drawer in the desk, and I hadn't seen them, and.

I go, what what is this place? Like, why aren't we shooting here?

Look at this, look at this like courtyard, and and you know, the production designer came, you know, I'm coming over to see right now and hung up the phone, and I was like, like, people wanted to shoot there, but there were some politics, yeah, and they couldn't shoot there, and so I don't know, we we had to relocate and we made it work. And it was like this whole long sequence of you guys driving to get there. And so as we were driving the whole cast going to this location.

I remember we had this elephant because when you walked around there, you saw these things that were amazing, Like you really saw women was sorry's carrying thatch on their head.

And a giant bowl of like cement blocks. Like the women were just hardcore.

They worked on the road.

They did everything they they and the men sat around and smoked and sat at these like checkpoints and pulled the arm of.

The gate up beautiful by for god knows like what that job is.

But anyway, and so on our way there, and I don't know if you were there.

I know you guys were in the car, and we did a lot of the driving thing, but.

We were shooting the points of view, and we had this elephant that we that walked like fifteen miles to get there.

And as we were.

Shooting at this little location that I had perfectly sought out, like, okay, if we look this way, this is where the women on the sticks, and over here the goats can come, and over here the elephant can walk, you know. And as we're setting up for this carefully, suddenly over the mountains, like two thousand people and I am not exaggerating come.

Over to watch what's going on down below in this valley.

Yeah, I'm like and B like going, tell me what do you want to shoot? And I'll like clear them away? And I go, it's impossible, this sun setting. We can't do anything. So I get in.

I say, get in the car. So we get in the car and I sit on the hood.

With the camera on my shoulder, and we start to drive down the highway and I'm on the foot of the car waiting to make a left turn just to get off of the highway into the cause I'm figuring like, if I just get anywhere, I'm going to see all this stuff and it's going to be fine.

And I go, we turn off the road.

Right as we turn off the road, I see this goat herder with his goat coming down.

I go, what's roll? And my GANI comes out of the car and rolls and.

I'm literally like filming this thing as like ghosts come down. And then we drive by and like, oh look there's a woman working in the field. Oh look there's some un stacking bricks on the thing. You know.

Just me like twenty minutes that the sun was like setting, you know. And I got back in the car.

And Donnie like the DB's like, now that's fricking filmmaking.

Oh well, we are going to have to do an entire episode about the Cheetah girls. But for the end of this one, if you don't mind, I'm going to throw two questions that you're not gonna like to answer, because I know they're going to be very difficult, but I'm gonna throw out there anyway. I'm gonna put you on the spot. The first one is what's your favorite d com that you shot?

Oh my god, I don't think I can. I don't even think I can. I can't even answer.

That because they're also they also want It's like asking like, which child is your favorite child?

But I've been told parents really all do have a favorite child, they just don't say it out loud, right, I'd be closer.

How about this, Since you did have kids that did grow up obviously watching them because you were a part of a lot of them, is there one that your kid that was their favorite that you just couldn't seem to get away?

I would think there, let It Shine is one that they are huge fans of. And then I would say Lucky the Irish. Those are the two.

Luck of the Irish keeps is at the top of most people's It's like, really at the top of a lot of.

People, it really is. And it still plays a lot.

Yeah, yeah, like it's such a little simple thing too.

People loved it.

And then the last question, and again putting you on the spot. I won't say favorite because favorite's difficult when it comes to talking about people. But what actor did you work with that the second you saw him or her on screen you.

Knew this person was going to be a superstar.

Oh I hope I know this one for you, not me.

You already you were already doesn't wow that I knew they were going to be a superstar. I don't, well, Shia, I knew.

I was wondering if you were going to say Shia.

I mean, I think because I remember Gary called me and said, what do you think about this kid? I go, I think he's freaking awesome. I think you we should do something with him, for sure, you know, I don't gosh, I don't know, Sabrina, who what.

Were you gonna?

I would think it would be Milo.

Oh yeah, Milo's pretty, he's he stole that movie.

I mean, he's phenomenal.

I mean, and it's the second he gets on camera that you're like, whoa, Yeah, well, I'm.

Glad you had that of Milo and I were not always.

Like okay, fair enough, fair enough, some of the greatest relationships.

I mean, my god, he's awesome and he's super talented.

Like I'm not taking anything away from that, but he had never done a movie or anything, yeah at all?

Yeah, or he just seems like a leading man and he can dance and sing, I mean, and he's great at it. I think he's one of the best that the channels seen in that aspect. So, I mean he was really great. Again this is and I know I didn't say it yet, but Will told you is. I loved the movie so much that first one. I haven't seen the second one. I had never seen the first one, right, I loved it so much, And I was like, Will.

If he does like this movie, I swear god I did.

I loved it. I thought it was great, super entertaining.

You made him a fan of musicals, Paul. Something I thought you did it would never happen.

You did it.

Well, especially that one. I would be surprised.

I would be like, oh, you like all these other movies like Hair, and you didn't like watch the like those?

Now I was.

I liked West Side Story because I was a huge Natalie I had a big crush on Natalie would so and so West Side Story I liked.

And I mean, I guess technically it's a musical.

Willie Wanka and Chocolate Factory is one of my favorite movies of all times.

So Jeane Wilder can do no wrong.

In my eyes, you have it in your heart.

I do.

I think I just don't have it in my feet.

Jean Wilder and very similar and west Side story. Zombie is one is the same story.

Yeah, but we're so stoked to see the second, and yeah we can and the whole franchise, because if this isn't even the first one, isn't even your favorite, it's like, oh god, what is about to hit us?

Like, oh my gosh, it's going to be so.

Good, guys, like the other ones.

I'm sure the two especially, you know, we got to start at the beginning and right, it's good. I think two is a lot of people's favorite.

Okay, yeah, well, last question.

Has there ever been an idea for a dcom that you had that you wanted to do?

Oh yeah, several of them I had. I just recently pitched The Luck of the Irish Too, which I loved, and I'm like, god, I just wanted to write anything.

Looky theirs two would be great.

So fine, Yeah, but the rules of the channel sort of, I did. I have a synchronized swimming movie which I thought I saw the Spanish team like on those some Olympics like a few years ago, and so we pitched the Sink or Swim, And then I had another Mermaid movie, which you know, so there's several of them that I keep pitching that I want to do and we'll just see.

I still believe in them.

But you know, right now the channel is well of the channel, it's really Disney branded television.

They are all going through, you know, changes.

The whole industry really is going through these changes.

So yeah, so it's so they need to figure out what they want to do. And I don't think this is the death of children's programming by any means, but it's definitely a reset and a recalibration of of you know what, you know, what's the possibilities because that was definitely the golden age of programming and I don't think that it's over with, but.

There's hunger for it and we'll just have to see how it goes.

Or I told you, if there's a Grandma cheerleader or something needed in the Zombie seven, I'm there's five.

I don't care whatever one it is, I'm I'm down.

He's like, I don't think you're ready for grandma stuff yet.

I know for sure you're not ready for No.

Definitely, Hey, if you ever need anybody who can either sing nor dance, I'm your guy. I'm telling you, thank you, thank you so much for joining us busy.

This has been so cool.

I hope you don't mind, but we would love to have you back sometime to continue the conversation because there's just so much.

To cover, so many of your movies we haven't seen yet.

I know, I know, we can't wait, we can't wait long.

Hopefully after you watch them you go like we were totally wrong.

Wow, we don't need to talk to about Thank you so much, welcome, thanks, bye bye. It's just it's one after another, one after another, tent pole movie, smaller movie, giant movie, media movie. I mean, it's like when you can say you've done just just running the DCM gam it, when you can say you've done Look of the Irish and Zombies, it's like, man and then oh yeah, by the way, one of the Cheetahirls movie, it's like, come on, I.

Mean, and how amazing is it? And I mean, definitely would that's hard. We didn't even ask him this question about coming into the Cheetah Girls on their third movie or Camp Rock on their second movie. How much the channel had to have believed in him and been knew or even what they especially what they did with zombies one knowing Okay, this isn't working out.

This is the guy. This is the guy that we can pull in, not lose all this money and keep this production going.

You know, it's like su Kreeger right where it's it's kind of like, we need somebody to write that's your guy.

We need somebody to direct, that's your guy. Like that's it.

It seems like they act knew what they had and that's the person that I.

Love knowing just knowing him again, and he touched on it a little bit of how he would go in there and fight for his how he felt the movies would be better and the storylines would be better, and yeah, and you know, always with a big heart and everything, but like to know that like your director would fight for your character that way.

That's why so many of the actors we've talked to already that have worked with him love working with him because the level of trust that you have in your director.

Well, he's an actor's director, you can tell.

Just for the thing he was saying where it's like, now I care more about the relationships and why are you what are you afraid of right now?

What are you thinking right now? That's an actor's director.

That's that's the director you pray you get on the set where yes, I can do the visual stuff and I'm very good at the visual stuff, but let's talk about your performance and what you're feeling and how that's Oh God, you pray for that every day as an act.

And I think I think one of the interviews we had said like they'd.

Be like, oh no, Paul, I think I could do it again. He's like, Nope, you got it. Like you did.

It's like you're good, and that right there gives you confidence of going that far or whatever, you know. And yeah, So I loved working with him, and like he said, there's just probably too many stories to talk about.

Oh man.

It also seems like these are stories where you need to go have dinner with them because you probably It's like, here's stories we can't really talk about on the pod, but here's what happened.

They're not bad.

It's just that we're filming a Disney version of India pretty much. And the same time our movie came out was when slum Dog Millionaire came right, right. But the filming process of it was it was pretty tough. You know, I imagine coming against quite a bunch of things that were just popping up on.

A daily so man, awesome conversation. Thank you so much Paul Holan for joining us. That was really cool and I'm you know, absolutely want to have him back on the show. And thank you all for joining us to get again a little bit of a glimpse behind the curtain to see how some of these awesome movies are made. We can't wait, so join us next time over on the other feed as we talk about I don't even know what our next movie is going to be over there?

Is it is Get a Clue? Next over there? Probably? I don't think it is.

I think that's the next one.

Lindsey Lohans Get a Clue, which was one so well fun.

Well we'll talk about it. Yikes. Go back over and check us out, and thank you all for joining us. We will see you next time. Bye.