Changing the Retail Industry, with Jane Mosbacher Morris

who found success their own way. Consider this your Real World n b A designed for the new Now. I'm Kim Azzarelli and thanks so much for joining us today. Jane Moss Backer Morris wants the world to think differently about the way our goods are, men factored, where they come from, and who makes them. Jane's company, To the Market connects retailers to ethical sources for apparel, accessories, and

home goods. The products sourced by to the Market are sold by Fortune five companies and manufactured by hundreds of small suppliers from around the world. Now, Jane's background is not what you might expect. She worked in the U. S Department of States Bureau of counter Terrorism and in the Secretary's Office of Global Women's Issues. She also worked at the McCain Institute for International Leadership as their Director

of Humanitarian Action. So how did Jane's path lead to entrepreneurship and founding to the Market Today I talked to Jane about her company, her deep belief that consumers can create positive change through their purchases, and why in business it's possible both to do well and do good. I also spoke to Jane about what gives her strength and what makes her sweat about running her own business. Enjoy our Converse station. Jane, thanks so much for joining us.

We are thrilled to have you on Maade by Women. Thank you for having me. So you run an unbelievable organization that the whole world should know about. So for our listeners, what is to the Market? So to the Market is a business with the mission of changing the way that retail manufacturing is done to empower people and protect the planet. And what that means in practice is we are literally trying to make retail products more ethically

and more sustainably. That's an awesome mission. And you didn't choose a small goal. So you started this um when when did you start the business? So we became a corporation in six But I had been working on the business, I mean, gosh for years and years, really just trying to understand where there was opportunity pity to create and sustain jobs, and how I could particularly focus on employing women and our supply chain in an ethical and scalable way. But spent many a year working on it before we

really started to launch and scale. And did you always want to be an entrepreneur or was this something that came to you later in life. I think I always had sort of an entrepreneurial bug. I mean, I thinking back as like a girl, I was always really into girl scout cookie selling that, you know, I had sort of that that desire to to hustle. But I would say, um, as I became a professional adult, I absolutely did not

anticipating starting a business. I mean, as you know, I started my career in counter terrorism at the U. S. Department of State, and UM was focused on women in national security, but thought I would a in national security for years and years to come. So you so you're at the State Department, you're doing counter terrorism, you have this kind of entrepreneurial bug in you. Did you have any experience from retail? So I worked retail in high school, and honestly, I didn't love it. I thought it was

really tough. You know, little did I know that I would be starting a retail based business. So, so tell us about the trip you took to India and what inspired to the market. So you know, I was out state,

I was focused on women in national security. I started focusing on broader issues of women and human security, and um I ended up after I left the State department going to work on labor exploitation, and I ended up in Calcutta, India and visited these two cooperatives that were employing both survivors of human trafficking as well as employing

persons that were vulnerable to trafficking. And I remember being so blown away by the business model because they were employing these women in a dignified way to produce products

that I thought were beautiful products. But I also loved the approach of I'm going to address a social justice issue, this idea of fair labor through a business approach, And so it planted the seed of like, well, how would we leverage retail and all of the buying power that women have around the world to create a more ethical supply chain and to create and sustain jobs for communities like these women who have consistently been overlooked, under represented,

and not you know, taken seriously in the global market. That's an amazing idea and a big idea which could solve so many problems. So what were the first steps

to launching something so impactful like that. Well, I had, you know, these initial cooperatives that I had visited, and then I began to think about, well, how many other ethical suppliers exists like this around the world and how scalable is this concept of working with these ethical suppliers and having them replace the work that's being done by factories that have questionable environmental and social footprints with these

ethical suppliers. So I did a lot of research, a lot of interviewing both buyers in the United States who are making purchasing decisions, as well as traveling and spending time with these different ethical suppliers and better understanding what are their constraints to scaling, why are they strugg willing to reach you know, national sales or international sales, and

what value add can I provide? So what was it like to start something like that and what setbacks did you face, was there anything that really made you sweat Well. One of the initial challenges we had was a people asked me, well, why are you not a nonprofit? And my response to them was, this is about creating and sustaining dignified work, and this is about changing the way

that consumers and businesses are sourcing their products. This isn't about pity purchases until really having like helping people reframe the way they thought about these suppliers, because there was also these biases that somehow these suppliers because they weren't brading in the massive traditional factories that we as Americans tend to think of now as it relates to me manufacturing, there were these biases that, oh, well, the product surely can't be as well made or you must have really

low production capacity. And so I had, you know, this uphill battle of having to prove them wrong because they were looking for, you know, quality issues or expecting us not to be able to hit certain delivery by dates.

And so just changing the way people think about how products are made and who they're made by so that they feel comfortable with the idea that, of course you can source ethically and sustainably and have just as good, if not better, of a product than these traditional, massive, massive factories that we have sadly become so reliant on. So changing people's mindsets is a really big thing. Uh, And know, only step one in your business was changing

people's mindsets. So how did you approach that? I think it's through just education and then proof of concept, so, you know, telling them the production capacity that exists. And one of the big sort of revelations for me when I was trying to decide how I was going to engage in job creation and job sustainment was this realization that retail production is the second largest economy in the developing world. Agriculture is one artisan or retail production is too,

and so this is a multibillion dollar business. And so helping folks understand that the scale of the opportunity was important, But then just as important, if not more important, was then showing them through delivery of the goods, how great it looked, and how great the service and the experience was, and how much more impactful their dollar was by by making purchases that were better aligned with all of the

you know, value commitments that they make publicly. When you're actually aligning your dollar with your values right right now? That's that's key. I mean, and it's so true. There's so much out there publicly, but are people really really taking it to heart, really doing it. I want to get into the operations of everything, because what you're doing is a really complicated logistics issue, and it's a serious

logistics puzzle. So how did you do it? Well? Um, Luckily I grew up with an extremely organized mother to me really uh create very very detailed sort of ways of systematizing my work and my thinking. And so it was really a function of creating structure, like what was our strategy and our structure for identifying these makers? What was our strategy and structure for vetting these makers? What was going to be the process through which we started

sending purchase orders to these makers? So I think, you know, creating this strategy and the structure was hard, but then once we have created it, it's it's actually quite smooth. We have a maker that gets identified, and that could be a small artisan group up to a large scale

fair Trade certified or God's Organic certified factory. If they pass our vetting, they then become a part of to the market's supplier base and We then tap into that supplier base when clients come to us with specific needs, and these suppliers then bid on these opportunities to produce for our clients, whether that be a large retailer like a Target, a brand um like a Madewell, or you know,

even nonprofits like Every Mother Counts. All of these organizations are interested more and more in sustainability and in ethical manufacturing, and they're looking for ways to um leverage their supply chain to do good and we are trying to make it as easy as possible for them to do so. That's incredible if you just think about the kind of reach you could have by partnering with those organizations, It's

it's such a powerful concept. So how did you get people to understand the power of their purchases and to connect with the people who made these products. This is an evolving sort of process and we're constantly learning on

how to best articulate the impact. I think originally I probably was a lot more descriptive around of policy and like community impact, and that was really I think a reflection of my time having worked in the government and in the offer profit space, where I felt like I wanted to really help people understand the issues in depth. And what I came to better understand is that actually I needed to really simplify it for people to be able to convey, to to easily process it and convert

into making change. Otherwise the information was just too overwhelming. So we've really tried to simplify our messaging around even saying empower people and protect the planet. I mean that is, you know, a handful of words, but its years to get there. And I always think of Churchill saying, you know, I wish I had written a and I'm paraphrasing, but I think he said something like I wish I had written a shorter letter, but I didn't have enough time.

But you did it so well in your book. You know, the title of your book by the Change you want to see? I mean that really, that really says it all, um, and I think that's really powerful. Did you write the book with the goal of trying to educate consumers as

well as uh the suppliers? Totally? I mean, I think that the book was an opportunity for me to put down so many thoughts that I had around why I think conscious consumerism can be simplified and how I hope people think about it, which is this idea of values alignment with your purchasing power. And I also really wanted people to realize that conscious consumerism doesn't have to be elitist or only for a specific type of person, or that you land on one one place in the political spectrum.

The idea was that you know, regardless of your values, um you spend money, and through the money that you spend, you have an opportunity to advance your values by supporting businesses that are aligned with those values. So that could be everything from you know, I want to support black owned businesses too, I'm specifically interested in only buying fair trade certified products. I mean, everybody has, you know, things that are more important to them than others. It's not

just for one sort of value set. The intent is for everybody to say, well, what's really important to me. How can I be a part of making change through my purchasing power? Because the one thing we all do have in common is purchasing. Yeah, right, so I mean everybody can make a difference with their with their purchasing power. I think that's really an important message that you bring to the world. But just back to this point that

your social business. I mean, I guess a lot of people would say, why don't you want to be a nonprofit? And I think you made that point earlier or about making the case for doing well and doing good. Uh, do you think more people are starting to understand the

value of social businesses totally? I mean, even in like the last three years, I've seen such a shift in the way that people think about social good within the business where even you know, several years ago, I think people thought that it was a luxury, and more and more they're realizing it is a necessity if you want to survive and engage with the millennial and Gen Z

population as well as the broader population. As we collectively think differently about the role of the private sector in leading and um, you know, having an impact on social good. That you will be a dying brand if you do not consider how your values are intertwined with your operations. Not that long ago businesses kind of had purpose on one side and profit somewhere else. And this idea that

you could integrate purpose into your value proposition. And I think companies are right that will succeed long term will be the ones that really know how to give as part of their business strategy and and be part of solutions. You work with probably thousands of women entrepreneurs around the world, so you kind of are an expert. You're an entrepreneur yourself, and you work with thousands of women entrepreneurs around the world helping them, uh, you know, create a market for

their for their products. What did nobody tell you about running a business or starting a business that you wish you had known? Oh? So many things. Probably, I mean for women in particular, I think we tend to be a bit more risk averse. And because we tend to be more risk averse, I think we tend to react differently to rejection, meaning that I had I would say, pretty thin skin on sort of the rejection test. And what I wish someone had told me is that I

will be rejected on a daily basis. You know, for anyone who is even starting a nonprofit, you are constantly pitching and selling your idea to employees, to investors, to donors, to the broader public, and you are likely going to face pretty consistent rejection if you're doing as much outreach as you should be doing. And so that was a big lesson for me because to be totally Frank, I was used to this sort of formula of if I work really really hard and I input X, then why

will be the output? You know, that's so true, and part of being an entrepreneur is kind of getting comfortable with the word no and not taking as rejection, right, and you know, recognizing that that's kind of part of

everyday life and it's kind of not necessarily personal. I guess sometimes personal, but most of the time it's just like you said, it's just the nature of of business and and starting something, especially when you're starting something like you you did, which is really changing the world and hasn't been done before in the way you're envisioning it. So you know, you have to educate people on so many levels, and then at the same time you have to go through the whole pitch process on every level.

So when you're in that situation and you're getting you know, as you said, like no, after no, after no, after no,

what gives you strength in that moment? I think still believing in what I'm doing, which is also why I recommend anybody who is thinking about starting a business, a nonprofit, a project within an organization, that you have to be deeply passionate and convicted about what you're doing for it to be sustainable and not not sort of environmentally sustainable, I mean like sustainable in your life because it is very, very challenging emotionally, mentally, spiritually, physically, Like it is truly

um will test you in ways that you likely have never been tested. And when everybody's telling you that your idea is crummy as heck, it is that commitment, in that passion for addressing the problem you're trying to address, that will, you know, keep you sort of slugging forward. I couldn't agree more. But it's worth it. I mean, it's just so worth it to see your vision comes to come to life. I mean, have you felt that as you've kind of developed this over the past several years.

I mean, really, the world that's kind of coming in your direction, you probably have a lot to do with that. Well, gosh, I mean, there have been so many loads over the course of this business and journey. I mean, I actually one of my my next book is I want to compile like the most hilarious founder fails that I've identified, because I've had is like massive fails, and I feel like it's so important to share these stories of like here's what happened, and you know, and it doesn't have

to be like my business failed. It can be like you know, I have these like epic experiences of like, you know, delivering goods and just like the worst thing on the planet happening. I mean, I remember we were delivering hearst and I was, um, They're like delivery went to the wrong location, and so I had like a courier common deliver it and I was helping the courier deliver it and literally like the box that was carrying their product exploded on the street in New York, like

near their office. And I remember being like, ah, like this is this is um, this is the glamor of being an entrepreneur. You just gosh, you luck love the heck out of what you're doing because the failure is real and it's inevitable, and it's also important, like it's an important part of that process. So so UH, and there's a lot of pivots. You know, we're in this

very difficult moment in our country's history and the world's history. Frankly, and Uh, I had spoken with you a few months back, um as COVID was becoming a reality of all of our lives. How did that impact your business model and operations? Well, when when COVID became as real as it is, it was clear to my team that there was a PPE

shortage in the United States. So this is personal protective equipment, and so I in the team decided that we wanted to go out to our suppliers because we have these hundreds of suppliers around the world, and wanted to engage to see who is capable of making masks and gowns because we had expertise in importing, in production UM. And so I thought, well, gosh, maybe we can be helpful. And it turned out that our suppliers were capable of

making a lot of this product. And so we started pitching this PPE product to hospitals and you know, to date have delivered over three million units of PPE. That's incredible three million, did you say, yes? Three million? Yeah? And how many businesses are involved with that? Like how many suppliers? Oh tends? I mean, um, all over the world. I mean We've sourced from the United States. We have Union production, which I'm so proud of UM in New Jersey.

We have makers in Ghana, in Kenya, in West Bank, in Bangladesh, in Hong Kong, I mean just really India, truly all over. And I'm delighted because it's important that we have a syndicated supply chain, meaning that we have diversity and our suppliers from a risk mitigation and standpoint, because as everyone I'm sure is familiar with, we've had

these waves of country closures. But I'm also so grateful that we were able to carry on the mission of the business which is too in to partner with UM suppliers that are are respectful of their employees and UM are operating in a better way for for the planet and have so much of the money that is being spent in this country on this product be channeled to

job creation and job sustainment for these makers. Well, it's so incredible that you're able to take your Brownie spark and then your state department experience and build something that could just impact so many people. It all comes back to the Brownies. I'm positive that like that that like catalog of like the bike, I could win if I

sold enough boxes. Like It's very ingrained in my head and I think it's so important for women in particular to learn sales yeah, because this is like really the chance that we get an opportunity to pitch and to like have that experience of feeling comfortable like asking of people. Yeah, yeah, that's so true. I think it kind of ties back to what you're saying earlier about about you know, getting comfortable with rejection and being comfortable with the world now

because if you can't take no, you won't ask. So I think if you can just get comfortable with no, then you can kind of ask for anything. Totally. Yes. So now, how do you envision your business moving forward, UM, in a world that hopefully is going to be healing from COVID nineteen. Well, we are planning to continue to provide PPE as long as it's needed, and I'm happy that we're also distributing product in countries where we're having the product be made as well. So we are distributing

masks in Kenya, in Ghana. UM. We're also doing sort of starting to do some donations of masks. We're partnering with the I r C to to donate masks M two refugees in Texas. So there is UM certainly a long tail where even if the hospitals are in a good place, right now, there's still a general public, both in the United States and abroad, who may be needing basic things like a mask, which is sort of a

basic necessity now. But I'm happy that, you know, retail is also picking up, which is great, And I think retailers and corporations are beginning to really understand how critical it is to have a syndicated supply chain, meaning to have multiple suppliers being capable of producing a product for them in case the country shuts down or their geopolitical

dynamics that make it difficult. And I think they're also really thinking about how they spend their money now that there's such a focus on conscious consumerism more than ever. I mean, people are really just asking themselves like why on Earth? Like does my business exist? Why do I exist? Like what am I doing to make this world better? What is what is the role that I play here?

And I'm hoping that that reflection leads us collectively to a place where we realize how powerful the spend that we make control can be and really is, and it's just a function of us getting organized and leveraging it. What is the one thing that you might tell someone

who wants to start a business that has impact. Is there some piece of advice that you've gotten or some experience that you've had where you feel like, really, if I could just help the next generation or even people of your own generation or older, what what what would

you tell them about starting a social impact business. I would say that the fundamentals of the business have to be sound for the social business to work, meaning that the social element cannot carry the business and it cannot save the business if the economics of the business do not work. That's a great piece of advice. Um, but that probably is the most important piece of advice. So I think obviously what what you do is just, uh,

just so incredible and so motivating. Are there people that you've met along the way, women owned businesses in particular, stick with you that in those difficult, difficult moments, you think of them and you're like, I'm doing this for

her totally. Yeah. I mean I think I think of those two groups that I visited in Calcutta that I wrote about and by the Change, where you know it's mostly survivors of of sex trafficking, and the idea that you can be a small part of helping to change the trajectory of their life because they are to work in a thriving business with orders, and that then means that hopefully the trajectory of her children's lives is impacted.

UM continues to be a sort of strength for me, because even if you know, the business doesn't become as big as I believe it can be, the bottom line is is if I'm driving economic opportunity to the suppliers that we've partnered with, then I feel like we're making a difference, even if it's even if it's small. Well, Jane, I am so inspired by what you do and congratulations on everything you've accomplished. You You've already made such a big impact, and I know there's so much more to come.

So Jane, thanks so much for joining us Unmade by Women. Thank you for having me. I want to thank Jane for sharing her story with us and for sharing with us what gives her strength and what makes her sweat about running her own business us. Here are a few important points that I took away from the conversation. First, one key lesson that every entrepreneur needs to learn is to get comfortable with the word no. You will hear

it over and over again. As Jane says As an entrepreneur, you are constantly pitching and trying to sell your idea, and you will hear no more often than yes. If you take Noah's rejection, it will be difficult to ask for what you need. Instead, reframe that no as being just one step closer to yes, and it may even provide an opportunity to find a better partner and to

assess what your company really needs most. I love that Jane's approach to dealing with no is to refocus on her passion for her work and the company's mission, the one that centered down the founder's path in the first place. Second, we need to get used to the failures too. There'll be plenty of them, says Jane. Talk about them, embrace them, and learn from them. And as they say, in the

tech world, it's important to fail fast and failful word. Finally, Jane shows us that no matter what your business model, for profit or nonprofit, there's an opportunity to make positive change in the world. To the market is transforming the retail industry from the inside out. They're working with huge companies to change the supply chain and in turn are

giving economic opportunities to vulnerable people. And we can each support Jane's work through our purchases, so make sure to check out Jane's book, By the change you want to see. Thanks so much for joining us on Made by Women, and have a great week. Made by Women is brought to you by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner PNG