Well, hey. Hi. Hello. It's great to be visiting with you again today. I have a guest on the show that I really wanted to share with you because oftentimes I am wearing shirts like this one I have on today. If you're watching on the YouTube, you can see this or on the other video outlets. But I wear these shirts a lot and I even wear them to conventions and conferences and all over the place. And we will talk about why during this episode.
But I also wanted to kind of give you guys a little preview about why gear is important for your outdoor adventures. And some things that I look for in great gear and part of that is technical designs so that I have mobility and flexibility. And that's because something that's designed, it allows me for the freedom of movement. If I'm out elk hunting, I'm able to
climb up steep terrains. I'm, you know, you find yourself sometimes in some tough situations and when you're climbing or hiking or doing these things, you want to be able to have gear that fits, which is why women's clothing was created. And also, and I mean, way back when I'm thinking Adam and
Eve time, women were created. Anyways, I want to talk about the technology in gear and this company, Vormi, they have what I call high tech gear and they also have high quality gear and high quality gear for me when I'm outdoors. This gear is going to help shield me from the sun. It's going to help protect me from extreme weather conditions like rain, snow, wind and so forth. And it keeps me safe and comfortable and in comfort. We look at performance
and also technology, the way stuff is designed. But when we have design, sometimes we just think of the cut. I mean, we think of appearance, what we visually see. But when I'm thinking of outdoor gear, I want something that has moisture wicking. I want it to be breathable. I want it to maybe help my sweaty body, help me in the morning when it's 20 degrees or maybe below zero. And then maybe
you're hiking to a stand for my tree stand hunters. Maybe you're hiking into a water hole and trying to get to the perfect pond before daylight so that you can beat the other hunters there for waterfowl hunting. You get sweaty during that adventure and you want something that's going to prevent hypothermia, but also something that isn't going to
cause chafing while you're hiking, because that's something else. And so there's a lot of details and stuff that go in to outdoor gear, and they're essential to have us happy and enjoying our adventures. So something else that I'm going to share about great gear is it has to be durable because I can go buy cheap gear that might be not even lasting a season, which I think in a past episode I talked about some women's gear that didn't even last
a season. I bought some women's rain gear and went to New Zealand and the pockets ripped out before I even had my hunt. So that was a real bummer. And that's your cost per wear. That kind of sucks. Like, yeah, it was inexpensive, but per wear I had one wear and it was done. So cost per wear was pretty high. If you want to know more about cost per wear, let me know. But durable is important. And so all of that
leads me to today's guest. Because I want something that's sturdy, that will keep me warm, that also will keep me cool, that would be weather resistant, that won't make me stink. Like, there's a lot to this. Holy moly. Anyways, today's guest is going to answer a lot of questions. If you have more questions or if you have other ideas for topics,
please reach out. You can email me. The email address is contact mianstein.com or you can find us on most social media outlets and just direct message us there or tag us in your pictures because I'm talking about some places where I want you to scavenger hunt and send me pictures today. Anyways, I hope you enjoyed today's episode and that you will like and share and comment. And if you do enjoy it, share it with your friends. We can all learn something today.
Hey friends, if you're looking for premium performance gear for your next adventure, look no further than Vormi. Their innovative wool technology is perfect for any outdoor activity. And the best part? You can also support the show by shopping through my affiliate link@vormi.com Miaanstein we earn a little commission on your online purchases, excluding sale items, and it's no extra cost to you. Gear up for your next adventure with Vormi today.
That's v o o r m I.comm I a n s t I n e vorme.com Miaanstein okay everybody. Well, thanks for tuning in to the Mac Outdoors Podcast today. I'm Kind of excited to have a friend, Corey, who is with Vormi on the show, and I'm excited to learn some more about you, but also a little more about Vormi, which is some gear that I wear all the time, and a lot of people have asked me about it and such, so hopefully we can learn a lot
more about that today. But, Corey, would you please introduce yourself and let my listeners know who you are and what you do. Yes, my name is Corey Craven. I'm the wholesale and outdoor field rep for Vorming, based here in Pagosa Springs, Colorado. We are a hometown clothing company. I also come from a deep background of guiding. I have guided hunters and fishermen everywhere from South America, down in Patagonia and Chile,
to the Brooks Range and Alaska. And so I know what, you know, how important it is to have good gear. And I've been friends with the family that has started this since the very beginning. And I've been a fan way before I was a employee. So, yeah, we make really good gear. We base a lot of our gear in merino wool. All of it has got some kind of merino wool in it, and we kind of take wool and put it on steroids and do some great stuff to
it. Cool. And so that's something that I'm curious about, is you've known about the gear for years. How long have you been with the company? This is my second year with them. I've. Like I said, I've known Megan and the family forever. I was a ski patroller also up at Wolf Creek here in outside of Pagosa, which really lets you understand the value of good, warm gear. Good warm gear. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's. So, yeah, I really enjoyed it. It's a, you know, great family operation and. Yeah.
Cool. And I've known about the gear since way back when I used to sell building materials in Pagosa and when Butch was building his house. But for looking at Vormi, at the brand, how did it come to be? Like, where did formy come from? So it came from the collaboration of Dustin and Butch English, both and Megan, and all these minds got together and we've tried to, you know, Dustin and all of us here at Boremy have some kind of a mountain background.
And Dustin was a guide on Denali, and one of the original thoughts was, we're tired of hauling all these bags of gear with us everywhere we go. There needs to be something that is, they can fill the void that, you know, you don't have to pack as much gear with you when you travel stuff that you can wear again and again, things that will
take the place of four layers. Now you only have one or two layers to, to accomplish what we were doing before with, you know, five or six layers with bags full of gear. And, you know, and I mean, you know how it is getting on an airplane, you know, brush plane, and you don't have a whole lot of room. So I think that is where the idea has really started from, was, you know, let's make a good piece of gear that is very versatile that you can also wear into town. That, you know, and that's what
I really like about it, coming from the ski background too. You could go up there skiing it all day long, come into town, still look very presentable, it's comfortable, it's temperature regulating. You don't overheat, you know, you don't feel like you constantly gotta put layers on and take layers off. It's. Yeah. So it's a very, very versatile gear. Versatile gear. And so something for me is I've always liked wool because I look at it as survival gear.
I mean, I grew up in southwest Colorado and got cold a few times. I don't know if I had hypothermia or not. But, you know, I had some challenges out there when I was a kid. Right. And like you said back then, it was kind of like what's the Christmas story movie where the little kid is bundled up like a little stape of marshmallow man or something, but not having the appropriate layers. And like I said, I teach survival as
well. And I know cotton is like what we don't want. But also as a kid when I would wear wool, it was like so itchy, so scratchy. And you'd put a cotton shirt under it. And so how has this technology? Because when I say wormy, I think technology. How is the technology different now than it was? And with it, with that technology,
is it still scratchy? No. So, and that is probably one of our big key things is we, we have dual surface garments that are, we put a high performance synthetic in with the merino wool, which. Merino wool is not your, not your grandma's wool. It's not the, you know, the, the wool pants that were scratchy or the blankets. It's, you know, it, it is a softer, but on its own, merino wool is very, not a very
tough fiber. So what we do is in, we infuse it with a strategically placed synthetics that actually help draw the moisture away from your body. You still get all the Benefits of the wool, you know, with the thermal regulating and the antimicrobial, where it doesn't hold the odors, which is one of the biggest things for me that, you know, you can wear our garments five, six days in a row out in the brush and you can still get into a sleeping bag and live with yourself. You
know, you don't. It doesn't hold that odor. And so wool is a. In my opinion, I'm like you. It is a survival deal. It still keeps you warm when it's wet. Yeah. It's one of the pieces that you grab every time you leave the house. Yeah. And what is it that's making it not itchy like the old wool that we think of traditional. What's the difference? The. The way that we process the wool and number one, it is debarbed and the lanolins are taken out of it. So we don't even. I haven't had very
many. Maybe nobody that has had an allergic reaction to the wool where they've said that they've had allergic reactions to wool in the past. What it is, is the synthetic is against your skin. We have a dual surface technology. That is our technologies that like you were talk. We have numerous different layers, you know, that we. I wear this garment, these garments all the way from spring all the way through the summer. You're
wearing one of our river runs right now. I see. You know, they keep you cool. They're super fast drying. Everybody thinks, oh, wool in the summertime. Are you. What are you crazy? Like, no, they. It helps keep you cool. They dry super fast. You know, I've heard many stories of people, you know, in the Grand Canyon that, you know, they'll flip a boat, but they were wearing that, that
river run. And it, it does add that little bit of warmth, you know, in the mornings and the evenings, but yet keeps you cool during the middle part of the day. And then, you know, in the fall, you have to step up your layers a little bit. And we have layers for that, too. It's funny that you say that because I've told you before and my listeners know that I wear wool pretty much year round. And the wool, when I talk about that is the wormy. And they
also look. And they're like, aren't you hot? When they see me out, you know, throwing hay or working out in the sun or something like that. And of course, if the temperature is hot, you're going to be hot. And yeah, I might be sweating, but I'm also. I look at stuff for the UV protection. And then they look at me and they're like, but you're dark skinned. And it's like, well, I can still get sunburned, I can still get skin cancer,
you know, all that kind of stuff. And it seems like not having the sun, like, beating on my skin, skin, it feels so much better. And you talked about this hoodie and it's so soft. And it's, you know, as soft as a cotton shirt to me. And it's funny that you say that because I didn't really plan to wear a Vormi for today, but if the listeners go back and if you watch the YouTube replays and a lot of the videos, I'm wearing a Vormi shirt. But do you guys look at that as part of your
technology? Is the UV protection? Yes. Wool is just actually has a natural UV protection built into it. We do not add any chemicals or any aftermarket stuff to our wool. Wool is naturally, you know, UV protecting. And it does. It works. It works great. It's. I wear one as a base layer in the middle of the winter, too, because it keeps the moisture away from your skin, keeps you dry. If you're dry, you're warm. You know that, that shirt you're wearing, right? There is one that I keep
pretty much year round. Year round. Okay. And so I have a question, because me being a girl, do you have a lot of women customers? I mean, you guys have a women's section, obviously, but do you have a lot of women customers or what's the target audience? Is it men and women? It is men and women, yes. That we have a very big, you know, a lot of the CrossFit people here in town, they love to wear our stuff because it is that antimicrobial. You can wear it. It doesn't hold
deodors. You can do your things again and again, and you hang it out to dry and let it air out for a bit and it's ready to go the next day. And again, you know, like, we do certain things, we. We have garments that have an extra layer in them too. Our core fabrics, which, you know, we'll talk about like going into the fall, you'll have to
up, you know, we go another layer deep. So our core fabric is again, like I was talking about our technologies with the wool on the outside, synthetic on the inside, strategically placed. That draws the moisture out. The core fabric actually has a third membrane in there that is, if you look at it like an Oreo cookie, it will have the synthetic against your skin. There will be a Membrane woven through the wool. And so you still get the
benefit of the wool, but it'll also, it. It is allowing us to do all kinds of new crazy great things with this layer that is in the core fabric. It's windproof. It adds another layer of water repellency. So it just like I said in the beginning, we've taken wool and put it on steroids and done some great things to it. And it lasts forever too. Some of the garments I have, I've had since 2014. 15. I have base layer bombs. I used to go through base layer bottoms when I was guiding elk
hunters. Every, every year you'd go through a. A set of base layers. And I still have some, you know, it lasts for a long time. That's one of the big draws also to us. Yeah, absolutely. I have to agree with you on that one because I have some other gear. I don't have it anymore. I shouldn't say I have it, but you would get sent as a writer stuff to review. And there is this other wool type
gear that it didn't even make it through a season before. It looked like Swiss cheese and it was like, wow, how is this supposed to keep me warm? And you know, you can't even get your, your legs into the legs because there's too many holes in there. So this is something that, as for the listeners, as Corey is saying, I have shirts too that I've had for, I would say almost 10 years. It's been a long time.
And this is why I always share it is because I try to share things that I can testimony and agree with without saying, well, yeah, and you know, being forced to give my opinion or something, like if I like it, I will tell you about it. So that's my little soapbox about it. But go ahead. For the hunters in the group too, you know, it's. I have our concealment colors and what we can do with that, we don't print. We're able
to weave it from the base up. Right. So it's not a printed on different kind of patterns that you get from other companies with. It'll fade over time or reflect the sun, you know, to where if you're walking through the woods, you'll. It looks like a mirror shining back toward you. Wool absorbs that light just like the UV protectant in the sun shirts, you know.
So I've had numerous stories of many guides or hunters around that they say this is the most amazing piece of hunting gear that I own because the animal, they can't smell you and they, they're looking through me. You know, they. It doesn't reflect that light. You become part of the woods that you're hunting. You. It just, it feels right, it looks right, it blends in very, very well. Yeah. And that was what I was going to ask you about is the colors.
And you talked about kind of hunting gear for guides and stuff like that. What other options do you have in the, the lineup of products? So, you know, we start, you know, I was going to explain through the spring. So, like the way that I'll dress with our garments in the spring is wear one of these river runs that you're wearing. I always have one next to skin. The itchiness is not there. So you always want to, you defeat the purpose of having the wool if
you have a cotton underneath it. So if you, from the base layer up, you'll wear, you know, one of our ultralights. And then, you know, you can wear that through the summer. It keeps you cool. And then when we were talking about the stepping up to the core in the fall, where you need a little bit more layering, we have concealment, which is our sportsman line that is kind of for us, which is our blowdown and our harvest colors, which blend into numerous different
environments. And then we go on into the wintertime where, you know, we operate in very cold weather at the ski areas and stuff like that and that the wool just works really well. Like I said, year round in the women, it's fashionable. You know, like I was saying, you can wear it on the ski area, you can go to dinner in it, you can, you know, it's just something that you can wear. Very versatile.
Definitely very versatile. With the blowdown and the harvest, are they geared toward one or the other or just any type of field or hunting? What's the idea behind those? So our blowdown changes here and there, but our blowdown is meant for like the pines, the hard timbers of the east, any mountain environment. You know, it's got the greens and browns in it where our harvest is more into like the waterfowl. You know, it named after
a harvested field. You know, I. It looks very good in a, you know, cut corn field or barley stubble or something like that to where you're sitting in the layout blind. Blends in very well. And again, the sun doesn't reflect off of it, it doesn't fade. And it's just something that you can wear day after day. Absolutely. And so I was asking about target audiences. Are hunters your target audience or do you have other. We do have others. It's, it's a lifestyle fashion too. It's some of the
garments that we make for the women. The chalet pullover, some new stuff that is coming out in the next couple months. The chalets and they're, they're beautiful to wear. You know, women come in, they love it. The colors are great for the men. We got some new stuff coming here in next month or two that you got to keep your eye on. It'll be, it'll be good dress jackets, everything you know, that you would wear into town and stuff like that. So the dress jackets are coming or
that's something you have already? Yes, maybe. Maybe. Is this for men only or. No? The women love them too. And that's our Borough Creek jacket. And that's. No. I don't know when they're going to be here, but they're going to be here soon. Okay. And I have a Burl Creek. And one thing that I'm curious about and we talked about colors for hunting, like what shades you have and stuff. How do you guys choose what color palettes are going to be made with each gear? You know, it's funny
here we all wear different hats at this place. We'll sit down and look at, see what fabric that we have got in. What would be best suited for, for that fabric, you know, is it going to be the Two Pocket Sportsman, which is one of my favorite right now? We just came out with the Mountain 2 pocket which is a lighter, a little bit lighter core fabric. And the Two Pocket is probably one of our most popular garments.
It's designed to. It's obviously a pullover that has a high pocket that you can still access with waders or layout bibs on. It's just a very comfortable, everyday piece of gear that is, you know, just. It's a great piece. The Mountain 2 pocket right now is out and it's for men and women. We actually sewed some in the extra small size just for the gals and we, you know, we had these two colors and it wasn't going to be colors per se that it
was going to be directly for the sportsman. It's, you know, it's a blue and a black and it, it's not going to, you know, something that you're going to go out there and hide from elk with during archery season. It's just a good everyday all around pullover. Great for fishing. The fishing world loves them. You know, the other thing that I found over the years too is that especially with the river runs like you're wearing the ultralights, being a
fishing guide. You know, you get grease on your hands, you get fly floating, and you put them on those sun shirts that are the synthetics. They stain so easy. I mean, you know, and, I mean, there's a point to, you know, looking like a fishing guide to a point where you kind of look like a homeless bum, too. So you want to. You want to look good. And our stuff does not stain. It doesn't. You know, it. They last. They last and they outlast the synthetics for sure.
Yeah. And so with the fishing, you talked about that high pocket. Can you tell us, for listeners who aren't used to wearing waders, can. Can you tell us a little about the purpose of that high pocket? High pocket is just so when you have waders that come up past your waist or anything, I. I wear this every day. You don't have to have waders on to wear this pullover by, you know, any stretch. It's just another
full kangaroo pocket that is on a hoodie. You take a normal hoodie that you get anywhere, you know, that's got the kangaroo pocket at the bottom, and if you put waders on, you have no more access to that bottom pocket. So what we've done is taken a pocket and put it up higher that you can still access your calls, your, you know, just another layer up high that you can put your everyday items in.
Yeah. And I think of that because, of course, when we're fly fishing, we wear waders sometimes, you know, and as you're saying, like, there's nowhere to put anything because you don't want pockets down below in a waiter. But also, I mean, next week, two weeks from now, is waterfowl season here. I guess it is duck season. But the geese are what's around for me right now. And so I'm going to be putting my water raiders on. And of course, pockets are always something that I'm looking
for. But then also, I mean, I have a lot of friends at Snowmobile and Isnowbill, and so that it's pretty cool to be able to have another layer. And I feel like when we're skiing or snowmobiling, we have, you know, layers upon layers. But if we have a good base layer, like you mentioned, that pocket is going to be great without having to be another Oompa Loompa. It is. And it, I
mean, and I, you know, like I said, it's one of my. And it's made out of our core fabric, which does have that windproof Very, very water resistant membrane in it. I mean, I've had it out on the lake. You know, you're in a boat, open wind, you're, you know, doing 30, 35 miles an hour down the lake and you feel no wind. You know, to make a soft shell garment that you want to wear.
You know, everybody loves their hard shell, you know, and they have that purpose to where you know, when it's raining like crazy, which we do make an amazing three layer laminate rain jacket and a pair of bibs that are maybe some of the best waterfowl bibs on the market right now. And they are a laminate, but you don't want to wear them. You know, I don't want to go in and have dinner and sit down with my V1 rain jacket
on. It is, you know, it has its purpose, but with that two pocket and our core fabric, it adds that windproof water resistant membrane that you can, you don't feel like you're wearing a rain jacket. Yeah. And to the bibs, do are there men and women bibs or do we have extra small bibs for women? We do not have extra small bibs for women. We have small through double X in the bibs and they are full length zips on
the side, built in gaiters on the bott. Our wool batting is, you know, is, is part of it too and it is a really good insulator. We make a vest also which is called our variant vest. It's reversible and that one is a men's and women's. It's a reversible vest with our core fabric and it has our wool batting in there. And I, a lot of people compare it to like a really good Carhartt vest or jacket to where it takes a little bit of time to break in, but once
it does, it's, it's a piece of your, of your body. You know, it, it breaks in. Well. Cool. And so right now the trend, I'm, I'm thinking I'm not a marketing person, which obviously you are the marketing person. But right now the farm look or the farmer jacket is the look. Is that something that we could think of out of the variant? Yes, absolutely. Yep. And that is our variant vests are great for that. It is that like farmer, rancher,
but yet you can turn around and wear it into town. It's, it's not like wearing a piece of work gear for any stretch, but it'll hold up to any kind of work you want to throw at it for sure. Yeah. And I love on the website you've got the guys carrying wood and, you know, doing work in it, which I know from the crew that I've met at Vormi. Everybody is actually out there doing it, like either hiking or camping or mountaineering or doing different things.
So is that kind of. You guys base your evolution on experiences? Absolutely, yeah. And I think that's what is probably the founding focus of this company is we've all, like, a lot of us all have some kind of little input toward, like, hey, I think this pocket should be moved over here. Or, you know, hey, I think the sleeve should be a little bit longer. We do.
I mean, like I said, Dustin from everybody that works here either been guides on Denali, to running hunts down in the south, to hunting geese up in Canada, to hunting and fishing and climbing all over the place. And which kind of leads us into our next little bit, which 2025 is going to be really exciting for us. We're doing some things with our core fabrics that are going to be pretty exciting. You're just going to have to watch and it's going to. It's a. You know, clothing hasn't changed in
so long. That's one of our founding focuses is like, you know, everything in the world has changed. Everything from your cars to your cell phones to your, you know, everything. But clothing has stayed the same. It's been stagnant. And we're looking at, like, innovations toward making clothing do something for you. Like it. It has to help you, you know, it. It's been
stagnant for so long. We, we want to change the game, and that's what we're kind of of our focuses is changing the game the way people look at clothing anymore. Can you give us any sneak peeks or previews to kind of what you're looking at? No, you'll just have to keep. You will have to keep in touch. We will have to keep in touch. We'll keep in touch for the listeners. I subscribe to Vormi's email newsletter and so I was
able to pre order my Borough Creek jacket. I didn't get my Wolf Creek jacket ordered soon enough and so I missed it. But if you subscribe to their newsletter, you kind of get the heads up on some of these things. So we'll put links in the show notes to all of that for you so you can kind of keep up on it as well. But Corey, you keep mentioning, like, Denali and Alaska and some of
this stuff. Can you tell us a little about some of your adventures either Your personal adventures or guiding adventures or like I'm wanting to know more about this. Well, I mean like yes, beneficiary started when I was 17 years old. Went into the subway bitter wilderness in. In Idaho and learned how to pack horses and do all that stuff. I, you know, kind of went around the. Went around the college thing and started doing things I loved right off the bat, which kind of. That's
what I loved about the hunting and fishing. Part of what we do is it is taken me and all of us to so many beautiful place. I mean our hobby is our hobby and we love to hunt, we love to fish. But it has taken me to South America where you know, I was a Chilean resident for years down there and I would spend the winter down there, which is their summer guiding fishermen. And being part of a culture down there that their main export is wool. I mean they, those gauchos and those was down
there. They live in wool ponchos. And to watch how they dressed and everything in that culture was amazing to me. Like everything from the asados to. I mean the Don Mario Toro, the gentleman that owned the ranch that we guided on down there, never drove a truck. You know, his wife had a truck. They had. They just got electricity in 1984.
You know, it was. It was like stepping way back in time. They cut their fields with a hand side, you know, their hay fields and they, they still used ox and cart and it was, you know, but they relied on that wool. That wool was their made, you know, with their poncho and they would wear it in the rain and. But that was. I think our. My main drive was, you know,
seeing all these beautiful places that the. These hobbies or you know, activities have led me to, you know, the Brooks Range in Alaska, another absolutely beautiful place. Yeah, no, it's. It's been a. I would not have traded anything that I've done so far. That's for dang sure. Yeah. And so were you guiding fishing or hunting or both in, in South America. And Chile, I was guiding fishermen which was a lot of fun. Big rivers, beautiful rivers, mainly trout. They have
rainbow trout, brown trout down there. Tend to be really, really big brown trout in places. And then in Alaska I was guiding for dull sheep hunter in the Brooks Range, which was a lot of fun. I. I don't know if that is something that I'd want to do for months on end anymore. For sure. I mean it is. You know, sheep hunting is a lot of hard work. Again, there's another, you know, you come to expect A lot out of your gear. When you're pushing yourself this hard in these environments, the
stuff that you're using better hold up. Which, which is why I ended up here with this company, because it does. You can rely on it. So. Right. And you're talking about going up to Alaska, guiding doll sheep. And earlier you mentioned not having to have as many layers. And for the listeners, can you explain why that's important on some of those trips? What that. So number one, plane rides sometimes, I mean, it's, you know, $1500 for a plane ride in there. You
know, it doesn't matter. You only got a set amount of room. So you can't be packing everything but, you know, in the kitchen sink. Same way with horse packing, you know, you can't bring everything with you. So if you have those garments that you can rely on time and time again and you start to learn how to dress with wool and learn that it doesn't take as many layers to do what we used to have to do, you can shrink the size of your
bags or your luggage or whatever. You know, again, our stuff is amazing travel gear. Just to get down to South America, to get down to southern Chile, was. Would take us, you know, well over two days of travel. You know, everything from, you know, international flights to, you know, in country flights, to being on a bus, to being, you know, and so you're wearing the same thing for three, four days in a row. And being able to do that in our, in, in our garments
was. It makes it a little bit easier, I'll tell you that. It's still an adventure to get there, but it makes it a little bit easier. Yeah, and it's interesting that you say that because also, I'm sure everybody's lost a bag. And I don't know my listeners. You guys can comment on social media or somewhere. Let me know if you've ever lost your bag because I know I've had that happen. And I always have extras in my backpack or I think a lot of people are
learning, like they only travel with carry on now. And so if you have something like this, you can pack more efficiently and still look sharp when you get there. Because I know one time our bags got lost and we were headed to a woman's banquet. And this is like an executive leadership banquet. And here we had like wrinkled T shirts and stuff because we had to rewear what we had the night before, where if I did have my vormi, it wouldn't
have looked quite as bad. So this is Travel Tip 101 like, stuff that in there, you pull it out and you can, you know, turn on the steam in the shower. The stuff falls out in a second. Like, you don't even have to wet it. And you look great. Right, Right. No, and it. Yeah, it takes one less thing off your mind, I'll tell you that. You know, because when you are traveling to some of these places, it, you know. Yeah, yeah. If you lose a bag and it. Your trip is
ruined. Yeah. Especially on hunting and fishing. I mean, it's one thing to be going in, you know, domestic trip where you can go to the mall and go shopping, but on a hunting or fishing trip, you've already spent a lot of money. And also, you know, backpacking and stuff. A lot of people spend a lot of money on trips to go backpacking. And the gear is so important. But something that I wanted to ask you is, through your adventures, what would you say are some of your
must have pieces of gear? Like, do you have a checklist and that you have to have with you? Yeah. And honestly, I believe our high e hoodie, which is one of our original garments that the company designed back years and years ago. That high e hoodie is our dual surface hardened wool technology. It doesn't have the core in it. It's just a beautiful piece that I do not leave home without. I've slept in it. I've talked to numerous people that have
saved their life. I have been told numerous times, like, I flipped the boat. This thing kept me from freezing. The hi e hoodie is something that I do not leave home without. One of the river runs, like you're wearing a base layer of some kind. Is something that I do not leave home without. Again, just because it is versatile, you can use it again and again and again. So those are the two of the pieces that I really do not leave home without. Yeah, absolutely. Is
there any other gear that you take? I mean, besides the wormy stuff? Yeah, like. Well, it depends. Like going down there to South America. Yeah. Going down there fishing. We would have to travel with, you know, everything under the sun, which you got to bring your fly tie and stuff. You got to bring this. But because there's no place down there to go, there's no local fly shop in, you know, Chai 10 Chile. You have to. You have to go prepared. You better, you know. And, you know, I can't be
getting on your clients too hard about losing a fly. So you have to have stuff to go back and tie with. Let's see some of the things That I don't leave home without, honestly, a Leatherman. I, I cannot live without my Leatherman. You and Hank, he always has his Leatherman. What kind of leatherman do you take? I, I, actually, the one that I have right now is like the Leatherman super tool. It's, you know, I don't need a million gas gizmos. I just need, I get used to having it
there. When it's not there, I'll reach around and it'll be gone. So that those are secret gear tips that people have is, you know, different tools, stuff like that. And with your personal adventures that you've been taking, are you, you're still guiding and can, can people book trips with you or are you just doing vormi or how's that working? I am just doing vormi. I am, I, I do a limited run, I call it my celebrity guest appearance over on the Rio Grande over in the, on the other side.
And I'll go take part in that for a little bit. But no, I, I'm very happy doing what I'm doing right now. I, like I said, I would have not changed what I've done in the past for anything, you know, everything from ski patrolling to, you know, ski patrolling was a life changing adventure as well. And that's, that, that's something that would teach you, you know, how to pack accordingly. And I was in charge of the avalanche dog rescue program for a long time. I, I raised one of the
avalanche dogs that worked up there. And you know, we were always thinking ahead of time, like, okay, here's a 24 hour pack. What happens if a helicopter does drop you off and, and you can't get out and you're gonna spend the night. What do you want? You know, and I think that's what you were kind of getting at, like, what do you want to have?
And I, that's why I said I've slept in my high E hoodie. That is something that, you know, I don't leave home without, it's going to be, it's like my safety blanket, you know, a stove anymore. With today's technology, the Garmin in reaches and the satellite communicators, they're affordable. I, you know, that's another thing I probably would not leave home without
these days. So, yeah, yeah, there, there's more and more technology that's evolving and it's, it's kind of cool to follow and I'm so excited to see what technology wormy is going to have evolving. But you mentioned, you mentioned the Rio Grande and so for the listeners, if you don't know about the Rio Grande river, maybe you should research it. And Corey said over the hill. So Corey, do you want to tell us where you are and where, where is Vormi? Where can we find Vormi in
Pagosa Springs, Colorado. This is our home base. This is where we started. We also have another retail store up in Bozeman, Montana. Beautiful downtown store location. It's kind of our flagship store, but our roots are here. We have a beautiful retail store in downtown Pagosa as well. So anytime you can stop in and say hi to the gals downtown and go check out the inside of that shop, it's, it's a beautiful place. But yeah, Pagosa Springs,
Colorado is what I've called home for most of my life. Obviously traveled extensively, but this was always my base camp and always came back to here. Yeah. And so for the listeners, Pagosa Springs, Colorado is also where I grew up and then of course have traveled around and lived in a few other places. But back in the day, he's talking about going to see this building in Pagosa.
They've kind of remodeled it, but if you go in there and you check it out, it was the original trading post in Pagosa Springs. So it's a historic building. It's got the old creaky wood floors and to me I love going in there because it's like nostalgic and, and I, you know, I like lever actions, I like revolvers, I like the Wild west. And when I go in there I just have that reminisce of
the old days, you know. As a matter of fact, in the back in our dressing room area we have our, you know, it was an old gun safe and there's shelves in there and you can see where they had kept the different calibers of cartridges on the shelves. So you can ask the gals like show me where they kept the shells at. But yeah, no, it is a really cool build building for sure. Yeah. So I challenge you, if you're listening, go in there and
I'd love to see a picture of you in, in the building. If you want to take a picture and send it and we'll share it on social media. And then I also, I went to the national assembly of Sportsmen's Caucuses up in Bozeman and, and my son in law is from Bozeman, so we've been up there and toured around some of their historic locations. But when I got up there for this conference, I was like, I gotta Go see the wormy shop. So I messaged Megan and
I was like, are you there? Can I come see you? And got to go stop in and get a tour of that shop and check it out. And that's a really cool shop too. I love the way the marketing of it, how you guys have it all laid out. It's. What's the idea behind the layout of the stores? You know, I. I don't know. A ton. Like, I know that the canyon ran, which is a. You know, back in the day, they used to name the drift boats that would go down the Grand Canyon, the original wooden dories. And one of them
was the Canyon Wren. And that boat, the front end of that boat is sitting in that shop, which is a really cool feature of that shop. Megan has done an amazing job kind of moving stuff around up there. And it's a great location downtown. And yeah, it's. It's really well done, for sure. Yeah, it's super cool. So it's something that, you know, if you're gonna go to Snaz, check that out. Check out Vormi. Like there's stuff that are must
sees. There's. That's one of them. There's also, if you go around back, around the corner from Vormi, there's a chairlift in Bozeman and it has like red bars and it says it's a good day for a good day. And that's a memorial. So if you go there, get a picture of yourself on that lift and then let me know about who that is in memory of, because that's a really sentimental memory for our
family. Very good. So next time you're up there, Corey, go check it out and then I'll tell you the story about it for sure. Meg, Megan and them hadn't. I think Dylan was working at the shop at the time. And I don't know if he's still there because it's been a while since I've been up there. But they didn't know about it, so I had to tell them. And you know, being from skiing, families and stuff, they were like, what? So they finally went and
checked it out too. Ask Megan about that one. Yeah, I did not get to see that the last time I was up there, so. Yeah, well, and I'll just. I'll give you a spoiler alert. It's a chairlift that was put up in memory of our son in law's sister. Her name was Sage Lindsay and she died of cancer when she was 19. And the town put that up and it's hidden, tucked back, hidden in the side street. But it's kind of cool. That is
cool. Very cool. Yeah. Yeah. And so I also wanted to ask you, I asked about the location of the stores and we've talked a little bit about the shops. Materials might come from out of the country, but where is the product made? So we still have what we have called Elevation Works, which is here in Pagosa Springs. We do small specialty batches. We'll get our fabric in. We're cutting right now. We're cutting layers right now.
One of the great things about being able to do that is we're able to bring our fabric in, do our cuts here and some things. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that is still sewn here in Pagosa. We're able to take some of those pieces and turn them into our accessories, our beanies, our neck gaiters. So there's very little waste. So all of our accessories, all of our neck gaiters, beanies, mittens, bully buggers, that kind of over hat stuff
is all sewn here in Pagosa. We do do some work overseas in Vietnam for our ultralights, just because we couldn't keep up on it. And there. It's a great. Vietnam is a great place to get garments from these days. You know, it's not China. It's not anything like that. It's very well made like it is. It is very well made stuff, for sure. And we will. But we do a lot of our designing. All of our testing is done here. A lot of our first runs are sewn here. We still do. Melinda is an amazing. She's our
head seamstress. Been with us from the very beginning. She is amazing gal. She. She does a lot of. A lot of cool prototypes here in Pagosa and. Yeah. Yeah. And so speaking of Melinda, I teach Hunter Ed with her husband, but would you tell us a little about the history of the Burrow Creek? So, yes, and this was
designed. The Burrow Creek jacket was designed by Melinda Vogue, and it is named after a creek off of her grandfather's homestead up the west fork of the San Juan, which is pretty impressive, listening to
some of the stories that she's had to tell about. You know, it was. It was designed after an old lineman's work jacket when they were building Wolf Creek Pass and listening to tales of Melinda with her grandfather, of him trekking over the pass before Wolf Creek was even there, going up and over to Creed to go mine and all these things. And that is kind of where the Burrow
Creek came from. And that's how a lot of our stuff comes to fruition is by, you know, hey, let's, let's try this and Melinda will draw something up and we'll tweak a little bit of something and yeah, that's how a lot of our stuff is getting, getting developed. Yeah. And I'm mentioning the Burrow Creek, but as I'm thinking about it, it's probably not available anymore. It was a limited edition, wasn't it? It was, yeah. Are you gonna come out in other colors? Yes, maybe. So
you said that you as employees have input. Do customers have input too? Because something I would like. Because I'm gonna tell you what I would like. Yes. Like when I went to Bozeman for that conference, I wore my crude necks underneath my sport coat, underneath my jackets. And so what would be really cool is to be able to have something kind of dressy from Voormi that I could wear. Because the Brewer Creek, while
I would say I probably could. Even though it's, it's a men's extra small, so it's not really cut and tapered. I mean it's great for me to wear out and about, but something that I could wear to these more high end events for in women's size. And I'm a small woman, so we. Are always trying to come up with some new women's, women's garments. For sure there will be an equal release coming out in the next little bit. Just keep your eyes on
for me. Sign up for the newsletter, go to vormi.com but there's going to be some releases coming out especially like I said, in 2025 is going to be a big year for us and like some of the technologies that we plan on doing and what we're going to be making these garments be able to do for us to help us in the, you know, like I said, clothing has been stuck in the same spot for years. I mean they developed the, the three layer laminate long time ago and it just hasn't changed.
So we're looking to change some stuff around for sure. Changes are coming. Scary. No change is good. Some, some people are so resistant to change, but some change is super good. Something that I wanted to ask you, and I'm thinking of it when you were just talking is what is the significance of the name for me? Because I think that's kind of a cool story too. So I, I, I've got a couple different ones.
I've been told that it is. I And I've researched this. It is a nomadic tribe that is up in the nor Norwegian countries, you know, like, kind of like of a vulnerable snowman. Ish. But in reality, it is for me, and Dutch is for me. And that is kind of leading into what we're really pushing for in 2025 and here in a little bit is these garments are going to be more for you. It is going to be something that is, you know, your garment. And so for me and
Duchess, for me, me. Very cool. I think. I think it's cool. Anyway, I like the story behind the. The name. I do, too. Yeah. Yes. And so what is the tagline for? For me? Do you guys have a mantra or something like that for you guys? Company, you know, just a lot of it. You know, expect new. We're not the same standard. The. The sea of same sameness we're trying to break out of. The sea
of sameness is what we're trying to do. Something to let us stand out, like, with our technologies, with our, you know, our patents on the way that we are doing our synthetics woven with the wool and all of that. So it is something to break out of. We don't want to be the company that is just changing colors of the garment for next year here, you know, like, oh, this is the new kind of blue. We don't need another different kind of blue or a different kind of camo pattern. Let's change the
workings of it. Let's change the meat and potatoes of the garment in order for it to help us. So I think that is our mantra. I think it is, you know, we're break out of the sea of sameness. That's a great mantra, because I think there's so much of the same everywhere. I mean, what are some of the challenges that you guys have in breaking out of the CS aimless? You know, I mean, all of it is. It's our fabric. It's our quality
control. A lot of it's us is our challenge because we are so nitpicky about the way that we do things that, you know, we have to have. We're not satisfied with just, okay, you know, it's got to be. It's got to be up to our standards. The fabric's gotta be there. The design's gotta be there. Everything's gotta complement each other. Everything's gotta be. It's gotta work. So I think ours, ourselves are our biggest challenge. Biggest challenge.
That's a great one. I think just individuals in life, we are our biggest enemies. Whether it's trying to fix our cast or whatever. Right. And I say that. So I asked if Corey if he's still guiding and for the listeners, I don't think we ever talked about the women's fly fishing clinic last summer. I think I was trying to have Leah on to talk about that and she never, we never connected up on that, which is kind of weird since we
live in the same area. But Corey also volunteers his time, which I think is outstanding because you're renowned fishing guide and retired or not, he actually came and volunteered and helped helped with SEI with a women's fly fishing clinic and was great to have you there. So thank you for that, you know. And I enjoyed it. And I think stepping back from guiding, you know, for years, for five or six, seven years in a row there I was guiding 300 plus days a year. I did it for a
living. I was one of the few that was able to guide full time for a living. I'd go from South America, come back and I'd start guys guiding fisherman here and then I'd move into the hunting world. And I don't care who you are, you will burn yourself out if you do that. Being able to take a couple steps back, being able to be part of VORMI now. And it enables me to come out and enjoy doing these fundraisers and still passing on some of the things I picked up along the way in the world of fly
fishing and hunting. You know it. And yeah, it's given me a new found little spark to go out there and, and do it myself again for sure. Absolutely. Well, we appreciated it and I enjoyed having different points of view and different guides. And when I guide, I used to write for an editor that she asked when, why would you go on a guided hunt if you're a hunting guide? And it's like, well, I don't know everything and they, you know, they know more than me or they
know things in a different point of view. And with fly fishing, something I always appreciate is different words, you know, because you can be teaching somebody and it's like, I only know these words, but if I listen to Corey, he might have a different word and then it clicks with that person. So that's something that we can always learn. And on that trip there actually was a girl that was experienced. She books guided trips all the time, but she learned a ton, you know, and she really was
excited to be able to learn from the girl group. So that's something that is totally cool. Well, very good, very good. I enjoyed. I Did. Yeah. Well, and for the listeners, that wasn't. This specific event wasn't sponsored by Vormy, but for me did step up and they. They pitched in some gear for the girls, and that was super cool. And so that's something that I wouldn't say expect that from Vormy, but Corey himself was there as a teacher. But for Vormy to pitch in as well,
that's something very commendable. And the girls definitely appreciated it. I know a bunch of them went and bought gear because they saw all the great gear, and I think that's when I got this shirt was during that adventure. I think it was. Yes. So. And I, you know, and they're. They've always been so good at this. We. They do donations for, you know, the National Wild Turkey Federation to, you know, a lot of different causes and things here in town. For sure.
It's fun being part of this company in this community. And, you know, we're very active. Vormi is very active in the. In the local community here in Pagosa, which is good, you know, I mean, it's a big, little tiny town out here in the middle of these big mountains.
So. Yeah. Yeah. So before I let you go talking about little communities and stuff, I'm always excited when I go somewhere else and I see some Vormi in the shop because I support the company, you know, I mean, as a cheerleader, you know, of course I buy things, but where. Where else can I find Vormi? I mean, everybody wants to go to Amazon. And I don't know if you're on there or not, but where can we find for
me? So it's pretty funny you asked that. I, like, just recently, in the last week or so, we had a big breakthrough, and we are in the Shields in Colorado Springs right now. Oh, wow. Yep. So we got our foot in the door with Shields. We also sell to about 25 to 30 wholesalers around the country, everywhere from Creed, Colorado, to up in Montana. Megan's got some accounts up there to the Midwest because of the hunting sportsman background that we do have with
the waterfowl. So there are places out there for sure. Durango, over in Durango. Duranglers is carrying for me. Backcountry experience. I could go on, but yeah, and we're. We're doing more and more wholesaling as we go, which is good to get our name out there to, you know, just step out of the small town of Pagosa and Bozeman and in and let the world know about us for sure. And you mentioned that you are on Amazon and I've heard from other companies that that can be a challenge to be selling on
Amazon. So I'm not saying go to Amazon, but you have your own website. Absolutely. And while we're talking, I've been sharing some of the pages on the website. If I order from the website and it doesn't fit, can I exchange it? Is there a lot of expense to that? Do you, what are kind of your policies for that? No, I mean, our customer service is great. Customer serviceormi.com if something doesn't fit, we will give you a shipping label, send it back. Well, you know, we,
we work with people pretty well. Yeah, it's, it's a pretty easy process to go to vormi.com and, and you can learn more about, you know, you can see in pictures of how we are doing our, the synthetics to the wool and the core fabrics and get a little more gist of what the fabric actually is because our fabrics are different than everybody else's out there. We, you know, it sets us apart. And so there's a lot to learn on that website and you can see what's in stock.
And like you said, our Elevation works our small town one. You know, we'll do specialty runs of certain things and you'll be able to find that out on warmy.com as well. Yep. Yeah. And it's something. Why I mentioned that is because in our fast world right now it seems like people are just so demanding and it's like these are real people. It's a real company. You're not ordering from somebody in China, like you just said earlier, like it's not Chinese made. And so for my listeners, I
respect companies. I, I'm having Corey on here because I appreciate Vormy and I, I really like the products. But also if you're going to sh. Appreciate that they're real people, if you have questions, you can contact them and all of that. If you have questions, ask me and I'll figure out how to get in contact, stuff like that. I don't work for Vormi, but I. Mean, you're not going to be talking to a robot. You're not going to be
talking to somebody. You're going to be talking to one of us. You know, we still handle everything in house and yeah, we like it that way for sure. Yep. In a small town, small town vibe. And it's something that I really appreciate, but I also choreate, as I said, I appreciate you and your volunteering that you've done in the past year, but also being on the show and sharing the products with my listeners. And I hope that the
listeners will check it out. Yeah, I hope they do, too. And thank you for having us on for sure. Absolutely. And I'll put links in the show notes to everything we've talked about today. And also where you can find for me and Corey, what are some hashtags that I should be using when I'm tagging you? Because I know I just tag Vormi, and there's like three or four social media profiles. Tell us about that. So I would just use the hashtag vormi. Hashtag Sportsman's group at Vormy.
Any of those. Any of the Vormi hashtags will work. Okay. Okay. I used to be good at social media. Now it's just overwhelming. It. There's a. I mean, it changed again that. It changes every day. Absolutely. Every day. Yep. Well, thank you again. It's been great having you on the show. Yes. I appreciate it. And we'll have to. We'll have to catch up again after 2025, and I can fill you in on more about what is happening. But, yeah, just keep your eye on us. Okay? Sounds good.