Jacob Musha Quaie in for Peppa Hudson. Right up until three pm. We're getting into our family Matters feature and I mentioned earlier can a narcissist really change? And that's the conversation we're going to have. And the reason why we're having this conversation is because there's a different type of therapy that Sean Diddy Combs's partner Cassie had to do,
and that was called neurofeedback. It's a very different type of therapy and the word narcissist has been used a lot in this P did He trial and we thought we'd get a professional and Kerry Rudman, who is a neurofeedback specialist and founder of brain Harmonics, joins us. So, Kerry, thank you so much for joining us. Let's start with you telling us about brain harmonics. What is that and what does your job feature as a neurofeedback specialist.
Thank you so much for letting me be here. So, brainer Monics is neurofeedback.
We use EEG lectropes, we put on different spots on your head and we basically gathering brain wave data. We can see where your brain fetches information or if you have what we call an imbalance, meaning your brain's going a long way around.
To do something.
And we look at everything that makes us up as human beings. We look at traumas that we've been through throughout our life and the coping strategies that throws us into stress levels, depression levels, anxiety levels, and then also how you focus and concentrates. So it gives us a lot of information about the workings of our brain. And when we do in your feedback sessions, we basically play your brain back to you as sound, but we do it in real time where your brain's hearing itself in
one ten thousandth of a second. And because it's so quick, it's like your brain can see itself in a mirror and in that way it can learn to self regulate.
Wow, that's pretty interesting. Now, what about narcism. I think we need to get into that and how does neurofeedback therapy help with narcisism? And let's define as narcissism as well, because a lot of people just use it loosely.
Sure it really is being thrown around a light, but it does need to be diagnosed. People who are narcissists have a very grandiose sense of self importance, They need excessive admiration. They really do lack empathy and they don't see anything that they're doing is wrong. So there's a lot of gas lighting going on with a narcissist where they exploit people emotionally and physically and in every other way.
So the hard part about treating an actual a narcissist in what we do and in almost every other therapy that there is out there, is that because they can't see themselves, it's very hard for them to want to change. You have to have some kind of empathy and accountability to make any change in your life. Victims of narcissists we see a lot more than narcissists themselves because they don't think that there's anything wrong with them.
And then the warnings signs for a narcissist, you could be possibly living with a narcissist. What are the main things to look out for?
Absolutely, So you know, the best explanation that we that I look at is always sorry, it's always looking at the symptoms of being gaslighted. So if there's somebody who's gaslighting, you're going to feel there's going to be a lot of lying, denial about what's going on. Your feelings will be trivialized. The victim of the narcissists often questions their
own sanity. They start feeling like either their memory or their sanity isn't correct, and they start trusting in the narcissists feelings more than their own.
So really look out for those.
And if you feel like you're going mad and you have a lot of self doubt and you question it all the time, maybe it's time for you to have a look at your own brain to see how you're coping with it. How is your self esteem and your self confidence and are you feeling happy within yourself?
Now this is where we will of course talk a little more about the neurofeedback therapy. How important is the neurofeedback therapy versus the traditional method of therapy where you sit in a session with a therapist for an hour and you sort of unload and unpack your current life situation.
So, you know, I.
Feel like talk therapy has purpose and it really does make a very very profound impact. From neurotherapy point of view, I feel like if your brain is hardwired into depression, for instance, talking about things doesn't necessarily.
Change the hard wiring. When your a feedback.
Will change how your brain is firing and change the neuropathways so that when you do talk therapy after that, you can do it from a much better place.
So they basically work hand in hand. You can't do the one without doing the other.
No, No, you can definitely do them separately. Doing them hand in hand does help a lot of people. There are people who don't. I need both, and they definitely both work within their own rights as well. I feel like if we're doing the neurofeedback, we're doing the hard ware, and if you do have the therapist that you're talking to, you also doing the software at the same time, and it definitely is a better option.
Now take me through the neuro feedback session. What does it entail and how long does it go on for?
It depends on your age.
It can be anything from one for ours per session, well per day, I should say, true, And the amount of hours needed would depend on the imbalances that each person has in their brain.
So sometimes they are combinations of different imbalances.
And if we only teach the brain how to distress or how to feel happy, but we don't teach a brain how to let go of locking into a situation, it's not fulfilling the whole pictures, like kind of putting a band aid on the problem. So there's oftentimes where we have to do things in connection with each other. So sometimes it can go all the way up to any four hours that a person needs, and sometimes they might not need fourteen.
But again it always depends on each imbalance.
So for us to begin a session, for instance, that we'd have to go through a proper like an assessment first and then you'd be able to judge how long one's session would be.
Absolutely the assessment is an hour, and it's like taking a photo of your brain. You can see the pathways in real time.
So we can.
See certain things throughout people's entire life, and we can see some things for at least the last four months, like sleep patterns.
We can see at least in the last formats how you've been sleeping.
But that gives us, it's a roadmap that shows us exactly what needs to be balanced, and from that we can work it out pretty much immediately of what that person will need in terms of training.
We're chatting now to Kerrie Rudman. She's on the Zoom line and she's telling us about neurofeedback. She's a neurofeedback specialist and founder of Brain Harmonics. Now, carry I want to go back to how we started this conversation based on the current P did he trial that we're seeing played out in courts in New York, and how P did He's behavior obviously affected his long term partner at
the time, Cassie Ventura. And where I want to go with this conversation is Cassie knew she was in a tricky place or a very or a very toxic place. But how does somebody who's under the spell of a narcissist? If I can say that, how do you navigate that? And how do you get out of that? Especially for the people who have to deal with narcissistic husbands or wives, or narcissistic bosses or narcissistic business partners? How does one navigate or how does one identify that there's an issue?
And I want to get out?
So it's such an amazing question.
Then you know the story about the frog that gets boiled in the putt, and he doesn't know that he's been boiled until the water is so hot that that's the point he wants to get out that's kind of what's happening with the narcissist is they don't just jump in and start manipulating and you know, lacking empathy and showing you all of.
Themselves straight away.
It's a bit of a slow process and as soon as they see that they get away with something they do, they step that up. So it is gradual and then all of a sudden you're in it and you can't figure out how to get out. So there are ways to get help, and it depends on the circumstance. Obviously, if it's employment, you need to start looking for other alternatives. If it's a relationship and the children involves, it's going to be a lot harder. But it's very important to
talk to people. You know, if it's somebody in your family, you talk to other members of the family and see who is in your group that can help you to navigate through it. The other alternative is to run, just run as fast as you can get away from them.
Now, the reason why I actually asked that is because I wanted to lead into the next question, which takes us back to this neurofeedback therapy. There was a line I read there that it works very closely with helping the brain to move out of chronic fight or flight patterns. Now, that for me is such a critical part of what we're having in this conversation where you're saying, if you find yourself in a situation where you don't know what to do or what your next move should be, then
flight it is. Then you, then you run, you you better get out of it. But how do you then overcome that once you've experienced neurofeedback therapy the idea that when something's wrong, I just leave and I run away. Does neurofeedback therapy change that?
It really does.
So if you are in fight or flights, what happens is your brain is so such an amazing tool. If you go through situations that are traumatic and that make you feel really angry or make you feel like the world's not safe, which Cassie definitely did as well as many of the other victims, it's your brain will generate pathway at the right temple lobe which will throw you
into fight or flight as a coping strategy. So people who are stuck in fight or flight don't plan that that's how they're going to react to things in the world. It becomes just a norm for your own brain to survive in the world. So what happens is when we do neuro feedback, we teach your brain how to self regulate and how to calm that fight to flight down. We've basically shown your brain that it's okay and you're safe.
You can let go of those coping strategies and over time, that's why we do multiple sessions and we repeat certain things. It teaches the brain that you're safe and it's okay and that threat that was they previously has actually disappeared and you can relax again, and then.
That becomes your new normal.
So there's not a lot of trying that has to be done in terms of neuro feedback. You just suddenly notice that something will happen and you reacting much calmer than you ever did before that you feel a lot more relaxed about things that are going on around you.
Carrie, in a situation like the P Did scenario P Diddy case, at the moment P Did himself probably doesn't have the willingness to change. But in general, somebody who is who has narcissistic traits or who is deemed to be a narcissist, would they be able to get any positive feedback from this neurofeedback therapy. I'm trying to say, can a narcissist actually change?
So it's a very hard question to answer, and I think more than anything, you need to want to change. To change, you have to be able to see some of what you're doing, even if you can't see all of it, because the reasons why they can't see themselves is as soon as they go there and they admit to what they're doing that's wrong, they have to accept that part of their personality which was developed through maybe traumas or lars or being neglected or whatever trauma they
went through. So it's there to protect them and when they lower that, it's going to make them vulnerable. But if somebody is willing to be vulnerable and willing to look at themselves, they can change. It isn't a quick process for the narcissists themselves. It's going to take time. And even if a narcissist couldn't see themselves and they came and did neuro feedback sessions, it would still help
them on many of the other levels. Because as soon as you feel like the world's less of a threat, you don't have to move into your coping strategies as quickly. So it makes you a better person, but maybe not the perfect person. It just makes you a little bit better than you were because you feel more comfortable and it ease and your self confidence and self esteem is better and maybe you're feeling happier less depressed.
Now, Carrie, here's a question that's come in. Is it possible for neurofeedback therapy to help somebody who is autistic.
Yes, we've had a lot of autistic clients. So again, it doesn't change the autism. I mean, it won't take it away that you're not autistic anymore. But it gives the autistic person a lot better skills. So it can teach them, firstly how to sleep with quality sleep. It can help them to be calmer when they're taking information in so that they take more in.
We've had some cases where.
It's just been phenomenal and the child. Often we train autistic children, so I'm using a child as an example. But the child will change dramatically and learning will change and speech can change, and sometimes it's a slower process. It depends on where they are on the autism spectrum.
Good afternoon, Yes, I had a friend who was a complete and utter narcissist of note, and in the end, I was the one who decided this person had to get out my life because they are vicious, they vindictive. There was a ceter of rules for her, no rules. There was a set of no rules for her, and a ceter rules for everybody else. They are self centered, they are, and everybody has to pan to their whims.
So if you are in a relationship with a person like that, or you have a friend like that, my aunt says, get rid of them today because they are honestly not worth the spit on the floor. They really aren't. And like the lady was saying, there's no accountability for anything. They don't. They think whatever they do is completely right. Donald Trump is a narcissist. He is a full on narcissist. Yeah, so get them out of your life today. Michael Simon Staner.
Kerry Rudman, a neuro feedback therapist, joins us now on Cape Talk in Our Family Matters part of the show. Kerry, that was a very interesting voice note we got there from Michael saying Donald Trump is a perfect person to describe as a narcissist. Is that something that you would agree with.
Oh, he is. He's the epitome of a narcissist. He really is.
E will say a certain thing and then he'll deny it, or he will change the topic and blame it on the journalist who're saying something wrong. So wherever they can tribualize experiences or feelings or anything like that and then often project whatever it is onto the other person's that they look good.
That is a sign of a narcissist.
I think Donald Trump would definitely for the Today category.
So then when it comes to neurofeedback therapy, for anyone who's hearing this conversation for the first time, where do I go to get more information about it?
Our website is Brainharmonics dot co, dot zda and all of our branches are listed on the website. We are We do have offices nationwide. We're also on Instagram and Facebook also brain Harmonics and our central number is zero eight three two double six nine one eight three.
Kerry, thank you so much for your time. I do have one last question, and I think it's also quite important. Just like there's medical aids who cover normal talking to talking therapy, is this something that's also covered with medical aid and if you are looking at doing it outside of medical aid, is it a costly exercise to experience neurofeedback therapy.
So, unfortunately were not covered by medical aids as yet, there are no codes in existence for us and it's a very long fight.
I'm trying to have to get codes in generation to be generated.
The assessment is five hundred rand and the training is five hundred rand an hour, So the amount of money needed depends.
On how many imbalances they have.
But I can say that there are a lot of people who are spending a lot of money on various medications and over the counter, all sorts of things that when they add up what they're spending to try and feel good and then look at the cost of this.
Where this is changing what underlies the.
If you look at it in a way like that, it's really not as costly as going and buying whatever's makes you feel good of the counter continually. When you add that up, there is a big difference in doing it wines and getting the pathways generated and firm, then continually not sleeping and not.
Looking after al
Kerry Rudman, a neurofeedback therapist, to joining US now on the Family Matters feature on the Lunch with Jacob musha Qua