You're listening to the Loving BDSM podcast. Kayla Lords here with the one, the only, the, You haven't been as grumpy as you could be. No. And I'm kind of appreciative of that. John Brownstone. Yeah. A little a little mellow. Yeah. Less gruff. Mhmm. I'm here for it. Okay. Okay. That's not what we're talking about. Yeah. No. This week, we're answering a question from a submissive who has renegotiated their power exchange to exclude punishment, but they aren't sure how their dominant will correct
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Okay. Here we go. My Dom and I have decided to start our dynamic again from scratch. We have renegotiated our power exchange and our limits and boundaries, but have decided not to include punishments. I have anxiety where I fear being in trouble often, so this seemed to be counterproductive as I would be actually in trouble and would heighten these feelings. However, now we have reached a place where my dom does not feel he can correct behavior he does not wish to see as there is no deterrent.
Is punishment a necessary part of power exchange? And how do you remain dominant and in control when your submissive is allowed to break rules with no consequences? So, Dom, who doles out punishments, what say you? Well, got a couple of things. Okay. K. One, why is sub breaking all those rules? Right. Like, why why is either the supposition that they're going to break rules, or why
are they breaking rules? Yeah. Right. Right. I mean, you know, aside from the fact that, you know, they could be a brat and they're just having fun with it and that's how they're getting attention, you know, that that's one thing. But if they're not and they're breaking rules, then you'd kind of find out what there's maybe something behind that. Mhmm. Okay. The other thing is, we've talked about this in past episodes before, punishment is not the end all be all.
Mm-mm. It's not the best way for everybody. No. This one here, punishment is only in dire extreme badness. Like, I have completely been taken over by aliens, and I'm not even speaking like myself anymore. So far out of character behavior. She's totally lost her shit. Right. That is, accurate. Okay. But, learned early on with her that, best way to to get her to cooperate and and moving in that direction is is,
rewards. Mhmm. Positive reinforcement. Positive reinforcement. She, you know, she does love her rewards. Promise her a Diet Coke and she'll almost do anything. Almost. I mean, I'll do some sketchy shit for you guys. I mean, I don't, you know, it used to be the, you know, I'd do anything for York, but no, it's I do she'd do anything for a Diet Coke. So, you know. Alright. So, you know, that and and some coffees and, you know, whatever else. There there is a whole lot to go on
to, say, you know, okay. You you you get this done. And this is gonna be waiting for you at the end of the, at the end of the race. Right. Yep. So Yeah. I agree completely. What was I going to say? I lost my train of thought. I'm glad I'm not the only one. No. You're not the only one. No. No. No. No. No. Happens to to all of us, quite frankly. I agree with you completely. I don't have
much to add specifically to that. The thing that my mind came to, exactly like you said, is what is happening to cause all of these punishments if they're happening at all? If they are happening, the next thing I want or for if it's if rules are being broken and that's what's happening, right, you have to talk about the rules in place. Are they the wrong rules? Are they not feasible for the submissive involved?
Or is or is learning a new habit and the stumbling that can often occur with that as you literally retrain your brain and your body to do something different than you've ever done before for somebody else, is it actually just the stops and starts and mistakes that happen in that? So then is it actually bad behavior? Like, how are we defining bad behavior? And then what are the methods in place to help a submissive learn how to not do
those things. If we're talking about, you know, you used to to do this, you used to have this habit, I'm gonna pick a random one biting your nails, you used to bite your nails, and now I don't want you to do that. If what you expect is to set the rule, you did it, now don't do it, they're not likely purposely breaking a rule by forgetting themselves. They are unlearning an ingrained habit, and they are trying to learn what you want them to do. And there may be tools out there that help.
Now that I'm on the stop biting your nails thing, there's lots of things that you can do to deter somebody from biting their nails, these days anyway. But that's the question I have. Is it that they're purposely breaking a rule? Because that's a different conversation than I'm trying to learn a new habit and I'm struggling with the change or I'm just
making the same mistakes anybody would make. So that's the other thing is realizing what kind of behavior you're gonna define as air quote bad and and what is just human nature and and it's a part of the process of training and relearning and doing different things in your power exchange for your dominant. We do have a plug here. We do have a workbook on our Etsy shop. It's about punishment and
rewards. It's a workbook that talks about both sides of it with worksheets to help you kind of figure out specifics of what kind of punishments if you decide to do that, what kind of rewards if you decide to do that. Positive reinforcement works for a lot of people. As you mentioned, we have talked about these things before. I'm gonna link in the places to where we've talked about these things so people can do a deeper dive.
The other thing that came to mind, I totally respect the fact that having anxiety about being in trouble is then heightened when you're actually in trouble. And that's, like, one of many reasons why punishment is not good for everybody. The other thing I would say, though, is it's also about trust. Mhmm. I am terrified to be air quote in trouble with somebody that I don't trust what their reaction's gonna be, which is why I'm just anxious all the time.
The thing I've learned over all the years with JB, though, is I know what to do to keep myself out of trouble for two things. One, the punishment is something that for two things. One, the punishment is something that is a deterrent. I don't want it to happen, so I'm not going to do the thing that could cause it to happen. But two, I have learned where that line is. So I'm not saying you need I don't mean to tow the line and, oh, almost get in trouble. That's not what
I mean. I mean, there are times a thought will come into my head that I could say, I have free will and all, but I know what kind of reaction I'm going to get for it. And so then I just refrain. I'm like, nope. Not worth it. But also, I'm because I know that. I know what, in general, will set us off down that path. Gotcha. It's the trust I have that it's not gonna creep up in any other part of, you know, discussion or even a mild disagreement
is comes from trust. It comes from how you have behaved consistently all this time, and it comes from my, ability to finally learn how to trust that deeply so you're my safe person. So if you're a person who naturally has just some anxiety over being in trouble, that may never go away. That's that's
possible. But it's also possible that you haven't had enough time in a power exchange to fully trust your partner on how they're gonna react in different situations, and then it's incumbent on the dominant partner to react calmly. You know, with a bit of reserve in the, you know, not not in a uncaring way, but that dispassionate, like, that thing happened.
Here's what we do about it. Not the big blow up or the guilt or the shame or the recriminations that often many of us anxious people who are terrified of being in trouble are waiting for. Right? That doesn't mean that you'll change around one day and wanna do punishments, but I I think it's worth an exploration and an understanding that sometimes that just comes from not enough time and not enough trust in the power exchange.
But also I just keep going back to what kind of rules are being set where they're just it's either assumed they're gonna be broken or they are being broken. Mhmm. Because unless it's a brat kind of thing where the fun is in the push and pull Right. Which doesn't sound like this person would might be gone with, at least not not currently in their current state, then then then the question is, is this even the right rule? If you cannot maintain it, is it too much too soon? Is it
just not right for you? Is it a rule that you set together because you think that's what's supposed to happen in power exchange? There is no that's what's supposed to happen in power exchange other than communication and consent and some, let's use the words in the definition, some level of exchange of power. Right? But beyond that, there's no standard rules, there's no standard behavior, none of that.
So if what we're worried about is a thing that hasn't happened yet, then everybody take a breath, go through the rules you have, determine which ones are habit changes and which ones are it needs it needs to a switch to flip. Right? But if we're talking about something that hasn't happened yet and you're worried about it, right, or we're talking like, there's I've lost my whole train of thought. I'm so sorry, y'all.
There is the if it's happening right now, you have to take a step back and look at why it's happening. Right? Wrong rules, not enough time to change, not enough understanding of, habit changing, too big of a rule, maybe you need to back it up to baby steps. If it's not happening yet and you assume it's going to, then I have questions for you. Why do you assume it's going to? Like, is there past behavior within your relationship that makes that a possibility?
Is it just a fear that one or both of you have that's got no basis in truth? If there is a basis in truth, that's another conversation that has to happen. Right? And that and what I would say then is if we're dealing with fears of something that could happen but has not happened yet, then everything needs to back up a little bit and you need to go a little bit slower with these rules. Because one or both of you does not have a comfort level with the making of and following of rules and
then believing that they will be followed. Whatever that's about, that's a conversation. And the easiest way to, like, work on it without overwhelming everybody is to take whatever the the big rule is and step it back a little bit and make it a smaller rule and do one rule at a time until that habit is ingrained in both of you, till you know how you're gonna behave with each other, you know, until you
build up that kind of trust. Like, you can trust each other enough to do a power exchange or to do something, you know, new and different in your relationship and not yet have the comfort level of, oh, well, they're gonna do everything they said they were gonna do. Dom Warsaw. Right? Because you don't necessarily know that until you've seen that in action.
Right? So that's really the thing I would say is where is this fear of the rules just aren't gonna be broken, or the rules just are gonna be broken and the Dom won't be able to to deter them. Yeah. That that's its own conversation. But, yeah, with positive reinforcement, instead of deterring the behavior you don't wanna see, you reward the behavior you do want to see. Right. And for many people that works a whole hell of a lot better Than punishment. Than punishment.
If every time I you wanted to correct my behavior, it was always punishment, that would never have that would never work long term. You you just shut down. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'd have been like, I don't even wanna do this anymore because I think I would be similar to this person. I'd be on edge of this. Everything going to get me in trouble is is a little slip up, is a mistake. Or they would start become ineffective after a while. Right? Because I'd be so used to it. It's like, whatever.
Punishment for me is, like, so too and far between. There comes a point. A purpose. And and I think with your your little bit of background, you probably can understand it. If if somebody is is punished for being bad, not doing something right, there there comes a point where they're like, okay, I'm being punished for this. I may as well be this. Right. Or or they internalize I am bad. Yeah. And no. Right.
So the other thing I would suggest for both of you is to learn we've done a a little bit of content about this, but I know it's out there in other places, is to learn more about submissive training. Mhmm. Because that's where this comes from. In order for there to be punishment that is not punishment, effectively what you're trying to do is change behaviors, change habits, change what change ways of thinking, have a submissive do a thing that the or not do a thing the dominant
wants them to do. That is training. You are training your submissive to do or not do something. And there are submissive to do or not do something. And there are different tools in the arsenal for how you get that done. Punishment is only one of them. It is not a standard thing in all power exchange. There is no standard thing. There's no everybody does that, everybody should do that, this is how we get none of none of that.
So no punishment is not necessary, and yes, you can find your own way without it, or you can even modify it so that there might be things that you as a submissive are comfortable having happen if you slip up that are not punishment, air quote that word, in whatever way you're envisioning it now. So that would be the thing that I
would say. Like I said before, links in the places, where we've talked about punishment and rewards, positive reinforcement, stuff like that in the past, and I'll link to our workbook for anybody who, is interested in that. It's a way to help you organize what you are gonna do, what you're not gonna do, what behaviors you're trying to change, what things you want to have happen in this part of your power exchange for anybody who might find that valuable. But yeah. So one thing I'd like to
throw in there real quick Okay. In all this, this is not a punishment, but it is also something that should be used judiciously. You should not just use it randomly. You know, it should be used only in the most dire of circumstances. Three words. Oh, I know what's coming. You disappointed me. I hate it. Do you know those words? That's why I'm glad you say you have to use those judiciously.
Those words are, by some mental health professionals, are considered so damaging to a child when a parent does it that they're like, please don't do that. Like, that will stick with that child. Alright. Wow. So and I didn't know that either. I mean, as somebody who grew up hearing it from time to time. So yes, judiciously. As hopefully two functioning adults who are mentally well and healthy enough to understand it differently
than a child will, Right? Who's still developing and these are formative years and that connection parent to child is different than, you know, dom to sub. You I think you can get away with using it, but you have to you gotta be careful. That's a powerful It is. It is. Powerful weapon. It is. And now I'm trying to think of alternatives. I think it's still I I think it's effective when so what parents tend to do is they say, I'm not angry. I'm just disappointed. Right? Or,
some version of that. Right. And depending on the nature of the relationship between parent and child, that can be devastating. I think a big diff a big problem though is there's never any discussion or context given for a child. All they hear is that they are a disappointment. And again, not all children, not all parents, not every time, but enough. Right? In an adult negotiated relationship where communication needs to be at the forefront Mhmm.
If a dom says that and they know it has an impact on their submissive, one, that needs to be acknowledged. Two, that's a responsibility the dom needs to carry with them that this is a powerful tool, and
you need to be careful with it. But three, there needs to be a conversation between the two of you after things settle and and you can both be calm so that Adam can explain what they mean, can give context to the submissive, can say how they felt, you can work through it, and you may find that that is not an effective statement for you because it might bring up some other stuff. JB can say it to me and he can even just threaten to say it to me and I'm like, well, I will straighten up right now.
But I have enough context. And I and I think I can count on my fingers the number of times I've used that over the course of our entire relationship Right. To this point. One, because I'm trying not to, you know, disappoint you. And two, you don't just throw that out there. You're not trying to guilt me. You're not trying to shame me into anything. So, yes, I think that can be effective for some people.
I think if you hear those words or hear this discussion and have this immediate nope kind of feeling, then you know yourself well enough that That's right. That's not that's not one that will work on you. But that is also the difference. But, you know, what should happen between, you know, parent child is that might get said, but then there's a conversation.
Right. And that very rarely happens. Whereas with you or two grown ass adults in a negotiated power exchange, if you could talk about getting freaky in the sheets, you should be able to talk about what disappointment means and what that those feelings brought up in both of you. Okay? Absolutely. So I think I I, you know, I add that just as a caveat because, like, everything, not everything will work for everybody and there are reasons for that. Right?
But yes, you don't I mean, truly, you don't have to, like, have a, a submissive lose a privilege, stand in the corner, do something abhorrent as punishment if if it is effective enough to them to know that you are unhappy with them. Like that'll stop me in my tracks every time. The only time you being unhappy with me doesn't make me, like, rethink my whole life is if I righteously think I am correct and we are in a a disagreement.
But if I if I know that I could have done better, there was there was some I'm in the wrong here. Yeah. No. Those are very effective words and no punishment needed. So, yeah, there's so many ways so many ways to navigate this. Yes. Anytime you're tempted to go, is this required in power exchange? Almost always the answer is no. Yeah. The only two requirements are consent and communication, effective communication. After that, it's whatever you make of it. Yeah. Mhmm.
So I think that is that. Mhmm. Mhmm. Thanks for listening to this week's q and a episode. If you want us to answer one of your questions, just use the contact page on our website at lovingBDSM.net, or you can find the link in the show notes. Big thanks as always to our kinky community over on Patreon. We're able to do this podcast and keep it going and
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