- You are listening to the loving BDSM podcast. Kayla, the Lord's here with the one, the only, the guy who can finally see out of both eyes Again, John Brownstone. - Kind of, sort of, - Sort of It's better. Yeah. You don't look like I beat you up. No. Which we don't, we don't want that out there. - No, we don't. 'cause you didn't. Right. - And I wouldn't. - Right. Right. - But, you know Yeah. Your face looks more normal. - Yeah. It does. It, my, my face looks normal now.
I'm, I'm jockeying the broken glasses. Uh - Oh. Yes. Yeah. - We both are. - And also, I've heard you say fuck more times this week than probably in the past year or two. 'cause Yeah. Ev all kinds of things are breaking. Yes. Yes. Nothing wants to cooperate. No, no. But we're here - We are. - So that's what matters. - This isn't broken - Yet. . Give us - A minute. - Uh, that's not what we're talking about at all.
Uh, this week we're answering a, um, question from a submissive who's experiencing conflict with their dominant partner, but they don't know if they're reacting appropriately or if they are part of the problem. It's a complex one. Yeah. Welcome to the Loving BDSM podcast. If you're new here, we help Kors like you have happy, healthy power exchange relationships. Add the podcast to your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode.
And if you'd like us to answer your question in an upcoming one of these out, you can use our contact page on our website loving bdsm.net. That's loving bdsm.net. Uh, it's actually labeled Ask your questions, . Uh, or you can find the link in the show notes for this episode. Okay. Let's jump into it. It's, uh, long kind of con, um, complicated, convoluted. I don't know. There's a lot going on. There's, - Here's a lot to it. Yeah. Yeah. Here - We go. I've been dating Adam Dom for about a year.
He's poly and has a committed relationship with someone else. I'm not his priority. He is the first person I've had a kinky relationship with. While he has been doing this for six years while seeing him, I notice that he does not enjoy closeness after sex. We don't engage in anything too rough. I never have any physical wounds or bruises to attend to, but I've let him know that I'd enjoy closeness after sex, and he will sometimes initiate it.
But more often than not, he will want to simply leave and keep it very short before sex. We chat and share openly about other dating experiences in life in general. And he always tries to be supportive when I share life struggles. Last time before we met, I asked him, Lola has opinions. Last time before we met, I asked him if we could spend time together after sex. He said, of course. And after we had sex, he suggested we leave the house and get some cake and coffee.
He also said that I needed to decide in the next 10 minutes if I wanted to do that since we had to go get the bus. I was completely overwhelmed and not really in the right head space to make that decision, but I just said, okay, let's do that. In the cafe, I realized that I was not doing well, and I told him that I really would've needed aftercare. His response was that I should have communicated that to him right after sex, that I needed longer aftercare.
And that aftercare is a thing that is always assumed to be a given, but nobody ever asks him if he enjoys it. And it's a way of putting my own needs on him. He is usually able to read my body language and I was not doing well. At some point, I showed him that I was shaking. He said, no. I said that it was very unfair to expect me to be assertive right after having sex while being in the submissive role. And then I needed more time to recover.
He said that if he lays down after sex, he will just fall asleep. We ended the conversation by agreeing that he will try to take longer after care more into consideration, and I will try to communicate it in the right moment after sex. I also had not eaten well that day, and this caused me to be more exhausted than usual. He said, I should tell him this and he'll make a meal for me.
. I gotta love Lola. I'm starting to realize it is not easy for me to communicate these things because I do want to please him and not annoy him. But when I got home, I realized that his position and comments about aftercare really annoyed me regardless of the way we left the issue. And that his general lack of concern and distance after sex has caused me to trust him less, especially since it was a total switch to the way he acts before.
I also was hurt because I felt that he was looking down at me for lacking communication skills and not taking responsibility for my own needs. Instead of maybe just showing empathy that I wasn't feeling so great in many ways, I felt like he was being that arrogant poly person that mansplained himself into not taking responsibility or dodging around the issue, because isn't aftercare his responsibility as a dom.
And even if there is no one way to do aftercare, am I really putting my needs onto him by expecting that he takes the responsibility? We never agreed to skip aftercare. We also will cuddle for maybe a minute or two, but he has already moved on to the next thing. He probably considers this aftercare while I don't, I sent him a pretty in your face text message. I told him that I would like a deeper connection with him, and that being submissive without aftercare is exhausting.
I asked him why closeness after sex is so difficult for him. We basically got into an argument and he said that he expects people who have a deeper connection to him to be able to communicate directly what they need. I said that I need to be allowed to communicate the way that I can not fulfill his standards. Everything else is unrealistic and doesn't honor my whole being with my weaknesses and strengths.
I feel like he doubled down on his assholeness and confirmed that he was looking down on me for not communicating the right way. He also said that he wanted to meet, to talk about this in person and not via text, and told me when I, when I can expect a meeting and if I needed to talk it out beforehand, we could chat on the phone. He also said that for him, a deeper connection hadn't evolved yet. That it takes time. And he doesn't have that with every person.
I don't really think that this connection is going to last, and I don't even know if I want to explain to him how not Okay. His behavior is. But there's a part of me though, who thinks, what if I am not taking enough responsibility, my being a teenager who expects my mind to be read and then putting my miserable, being miserable onto him, did send him that in your face text because I was feeling hurt. I probably would never have said it to him like that in person.
And I can't tell if it was overkill or if I was simply able to communicate my feelings honestly. 'cause I can write it out. I do feel like his expectations of me are unfair, and that he's exploiting the fact that I'm submissive and therefore struggle with displeasing him so he can get away with not doing a lot of aftercare at the same time. Am I using my identity as a submissive to avoid direct communication and standing up for my needs? Please help. There's a lot there.
- . There's a, there's a lot. There is a lot. You are not kidding. Wow. - Sorry for anybody who might have zoned out, because there's a lot, hopefully we'll hit the salient points here. - Right, right. - Um, I feel like this is one of those, am I the asshole or are they the asshole? And I, - I, you know, I I I don't think either one. I don't either. All right. There, there, there is a a a lot going on. Communication on both sides. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . Okay. Both sides. Not just one or the other.
Both. And I'm, I'm gonna say this, this straight out because listening to this, you know, I, I don't see any like glaring red flags Mm-Hmm. Jumping out in, in, in any of this. Mm-Hmm. And I, I think what we're really got here is, is just an incompatibility. Yes. Okay. Yes. Because, you know, let, let's face it, and we talked about this in earlier episodes about hierarchy of needs. Mm-Hmm. in kink. Mm-Hmm. - , I'll link to that in the
Mm-Hmm. in the show - And places, you know, to, to this person. It sounds like aftercare is something that's very important to them. Oh, - Yeah. I think that's very clear. - Yeah, for sure. I mean, it, it, it's very clear that, that this person, you know, states that, you know, aftercare is needed or at least in some, into some depth. Right. Okay. Um, more than a couple minutes. Mm-Hmm. . And, and to him aftercare is not that big of a deal.
- And I thought it was a little telling that there was a little bit of a whiny rant about how people expect aftercare from him and just put it on him like he's supposed to do it, but what about how he feels? And it's a, yeah. Look, - I know, I know that - I, that I don't consider that a red flag. I do consider that a Oh, you clearly have some feelings here that you haven't talked about with somebody at - Some book. Yeah. Or, or, or some kind of misconception of what Yeah. What
- Aftercare is. Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. So, you know, yeah. There, there, there is a lot going on and I, you know, he does tell this person that they are not his priority. - Yeah. That's, that can't be easy to - Hear. No. - And it's, and they, they didn't say that, that he said they weren't the priority. I think they just know based on whatever. Yeah. And maybe they did say it, but to they, I guess he was being honest when he said that they hadn't developed - A deeper connect, deeper connection.
- Yeah. No. The submissive states at the very beginning, I am not his priority, but they never - Say. Yeah, that's true. He told me, said that told Yeah, you're - Right. Either they've gleaned that or maybe he has told them. Yeah. But either way, they Mm-Hmm. , regardless of how what he has said to them, they are walking away with I am not his priority. Yeah. And I feel like that's kind of coming through - Here. It it is, it is definitely coming through.
Um, you know, it's, it, it can be tough balancing multiple relationships - As a practicing poly dom. You kind of know . - Yeah. Um, it, it is, it is tough. Um, you know, we have a, a sort of a unique situation. Mm-Hmm. as far as you and I, we are married. You and my baby girl, submissive . You are my business partner in multiple mm-Hmm. Ventures. - We take care of a family together. - We, we take care of a family and a home together.
- Right. We are, as you know, we are as tight, as - Tight, be as interconnected as can be. Mm-Hmm. . And, you know, it's, it's hard to step away from those things. Mm-Hmm. . Okay. And, and yet when I go and see the person that I'm currently seeing, I try to make them the priority Right. For the time we have. Right. - And I do my part to let you do that. Mm-Hmm. like, short of an emergency, you're not gonna really hear from me. Right.
- Unless, I mean, you, you, you even told me, he said, you know, if, if something major happens or somebody's sick or dying, you know? Right. - I'm gonna leave you alone outside of that. Yeah. Yeah. - So, you know - What, but that means that's, that means that when you're with your part, your other partner, you're like you said, you're making them the priority so that they feel like they have your attention. I
- I try to do my best. You know, right now - I don't get any indication based on what's been said here. Mm-Hmm. . That that's not what they're doing. I think it's, I, the little bit I might glean from it is, okay, well, when we're, once we're done with like our kinky sex or whatever, he's kind of ready to move on. Mm-Hmm. . Well then my question is, move on to what, move on to other activities with this partner or move on with the rest of his life and leave and be done.
Right. And I think that the, the answer to that determines the connection and the prioritizing and all of that. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . Um, ultimately, ultimately this is a serious failure of communication. Oh, yeah. So - Absolutely. - I, it, I take from here, they have tried to have conversations about aftercare, but I don't know that those conversations were very detailed. Mm-Hmm. This is exactly what I would like, this is what I'm looking for. This is what aftercare means to me.
You know, talking about it beforehand, well in advance. Having it sort of baked in so it's understood every time. Right. There needs to be aftercare. Mm-Hmm. , did that conversation ever actually take place? - It does not sound like it. It does not. And, and it also sounds like what has been talked about there, there is no, you know, the, the submissive has an idea of what aftercare should be. The big D has an idea of what aftercare is to them and also doesn't - Seem to enjoy it anyway.
Right. And how he has his feelings about it. - And not everybody does. - No, but the thing is, is aftercare is aftercare should to me, can and should be provided by both sides of the slash Right. Sure. What that looks like is different in every situation. Mm-Hmm. And for everybody Mm-Hmm. Because it's uniquely personal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But aftercare provided by the dom to the submissive, especially when there's been a power exchange or Mm-Hmm.
, their submissive has been on the receiving end of kinky Acts is one to kind of help them come back to the headspace, but two, to make sure that they are healthy and good and Right. It is not, it can be, but it is not just for Give me a quick cuddle Yeah. And let me know I'm cared for. It's Mm-Hmm. , it's, lemme make sure you're fucking okay here. Okay. Yeah. And so for the dom to kind of go, well, I don't really care about aftercare.
Well, you don't care about making sure you're Mr. A partner is doing okay. - And, and the thing is, for some people too, you know, they, they may be fine right after a scene Mm-Hmm. and then a day or two later right. Is when they, they will drop. Now to, to me, the, the glaring thing in this too is that they are not, you know, aside from the glaring incompatibility. Yeah.
- I think they're very incompatible. The, - The, the only other thing that, you know, could possibly rectify this to, to a certain extent is the fact that no one's willing to compromise. It seems, and I, to - To to kind of, it, it does not, I don't, I don't see any discussion happening. Okay. How do we meet in the middle so everybody gets what they need. Yeah. Um, the other thing that I, I empathize with the submissive. They don't wanna speak up because they don't wanna be an annoyance.
Mm-Hmm. . Well, my first question is, is that because your dominant partner is making you feel like you are ? Or is this something you've internalized from past relationships? What you think a submissive is supposed to be? You know Mm-Hmm. just who you are and what you've experienced in life. So that's the first thing. The, the dominant seems to be saying, I need clear, concise communication. Right. And the submissive isn't there yet. Now. Mm-Hmm.
, I think it is an individual's responsibility to learn what you can about communication skills Sure. And improving your own skills. Mm-Hmm. . But also the only way we really improve is to practice. Exactly. And so this person, the submissive needs to gain those skills. They need to work, work on those skills, but that dominant needs to be willing to go, okay, I see you're struggling here. How can I help you? Let me ask some - Questions. Let me curious about what you're trying to tell exactly.
Because as, as the dominant in in the relationship, you are the one who technically takes the lead. Right? - You're leading, you have control and power. - You're leading, you have, you've negotiated the, the power and, and you know, whatever else you have. And you know, you had trouble communicating in the beginning. Right. - So we found workarounds, - We, we found workarounds and, and I made it comfortable for you Right. To want to - Communicate.
And if I was not telling you something directly, this to me is, is a top tip for all dominance out there with a submissive who struggles to communicate. You would just ask direct questions. Yeah. You got curious. Like, I'm not, and maybe it's, maybe it's because the con quote connection is not there. Maybe it's because he's not making this a partner a priority, whatever it is. Mm-Hmm. , I am not getting that this dominant partner is curious enough to say, what do you need from aftercare?
How are you feeling? Right. - And that, and I think that dips back to her not feeling like a - Priority. Them we don't know of them. Yeah. Right. Um, one thing that kind of struck me, and I, I, I want, I want to be kind and considerate and empathetic to the submissive who has clearly struggled here. Mm-Hmm. , I want to push back a bit on my partner should not expect me to be assertive after I've been in the submissive head space. Everybody has their own way and personality. Mm-Hmm.
and, and how submission affects them. And so it is entirely possible that it takes you a hot minute to come out of submissive headspace. And maybe that's part of how, what aftercare needs to be to let you do that. But it is not a partner's responsibility to expect you that you will or will not speak up about your own needs.
Mm-Hmm. if, you know, you struggle with that, if you know that after a scene or some kinky sex where you were really feeling your submissive self, that it takes you a minute to kind of come back and go, okay, I can assert myself, I can speak on my behalf. Right. That has to be part of the discussion of, Hey, I need this aftercare to get me into that. And you, and some of this stuff you can't discuss until you learn it about yourself.
Right. But in this e very long email that came through, they said, well, he should just know that I'm not gonna be assertive. No, no, no, no, no. Mm-Hmm. Once you figure that out about yourself and you realize you're still not getting what you need or you're not feeling heard and seen, then it is your responsibility as the submissive to go, Hey, here's what I'm learning about myself.
And of course, you have to do it outside of the scene and outside of the moment because you have to wait till you're coming back to yourself. I can't be as straightforward and assertive as you need me to be, to make decisions. Right. I can't do that in, in a few minutes. I, I'm mm-Hmm. , whether it's your wiring or it's the headspace, I need some time to come back to myself. Sure. It sounds like I really feel like these two people are like at cross purposes.
They are, they're on the different sides of the slash but they are not on the same path towards - One another. - No. You know, he seems to want a very specific type of person, has very specific types of expectations and is not seeming to work with this his submissive partner on getting them to that point where his expectations can get closer to being met. Mm-Hmm. at the same time. Maybe it's because they're a new submissive.
I would definitely say as they admit towards the end, they struggle to communicate. They are not being clear with their dominant partner. Mm-Hmm. , it's a, I don't, I don't have a problem that they got away from the situation, went home, thought about the conversation that took place and Mm-Hmm. sent off an angry text. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Yeah.
I think that that's pretty common for people who, especially for people who struggle to communicate clearly in the moment because you're having to deal with all of the stimuli coming at you from this conversation. What do I actually think? And I don't know, and that sounds good. And then you get away where you can be kind of quiet and with your own thoughts and then you think through it and you go, what the hell? No, I'm not okay with that. Mm-Hmm. .
And we as individuals on any side of any slash get to come back to a conversation and say, you know, we talked about that thing and in the moment, yeah, I know what I said. I should not have said that. Here's how I'm feeling right now. Upon further reflection, we all get that ability, everybody. Right. So taking that opportunity and saying how you felt once you had time to sort of process, you're not wrong for that at all.
Um, but I do think that the lessons need to start being learned here about what is the submissive partner's responsibilities, what is the dominant partner's responsibilities? And I think some are a little bit of, I hate to say this 'cause it means people have to assume things and I don't like that. But some things are kind of a given aftercare for a submissive partner is the dom's responsibility to provide because the submissive partner was on the receiving end of some shit .
So that aftercare needs to be within the boundaries of the dominant partner, but needs to be focused on the submissive and what they need to get themselves back to where they can function again. Mm-Hmm. , that does not mean that a dominant partner does not deserve aftercare. It does mean that that aftercare either will not come from that submissive or cannot come from that submissive until they're able to function again.
Mm-Hmm. , depending on what their needs are for aftercare, I think that, you know, the most telling part is this person knows they're not a priority and their do is said after a year, well, we don't have that connection. Mm-Hmm. . Well when the fuck are you gonna develop that connection? Yeah. After a year. I feel like the answer's there now for the submissive partner, they hit the nail on the head about kind of what works for them.
And if they wanted to continue with this dominant partner, this is the conversation they said, I am communicating better in writing. Mm-Hmm. , then you need to use writing. Right. Until you, maybe you never can, but until you get to a point where your communication skills allow you to verbalize it in some way Mm-Hmm. use other methods. Right.
And your dominant partner who wants that clear communication to me, ought to be willing to go, this is what you need, this is what will get me the clear communication that I require. Go for it. Mm-Hmm. , let's do it that way. It's a valid form of communication and for some people it's, it's gonna be easier. I still to this day, after all these years, way better at writing out my thoughts.
Oh yeah. Because I can edit and I can make sure I'm saying what I actually mean and I can organize my thoughts and I can go over it 85 times before I hit send or hit print or hand you the piece of paper, two or three of them double-sided with my loopy handwriting. Like whatever. It's - Right. - , that's a valid form. Yeah. I'm with you. I don't think anybody here is displaying a single like true red flag.
Mm-Hmm. . I think other people could, you know, reasonable people could disagree based on your own experiences. Mm-Hmm. . But based on how it's being described, I think these are two sters who are at different points in their kink life and there's not enough binding them together Right. For them to figure out how to meet each other, where the other is at. Mm-Hmm. like to me, a dominant who really wants to be with that submissive Mm-Hmm. and is like really invested
in that relationship. They're, - They're gonna put the effort into it. Yeah. - And they're gonna be like, look, I know you don't have the skills yet, right? Mm-Hmm. , I'm gonna keep that in mind. I might even help you develop those skills. Right? Mm-Hmm. , I'm gonna work within your communication style. I'm gonna ask more fucking questions. I'm gonna get curious because I know you don't have these skills yet.
Yeah. At the same time, the submissive has to take the responsibility to learn those things has to, you know, realize. And some of this just comes with time and experience that Mm-Hmm. , you know, uh, communicating your wants and needs is not you being annoying. No. Saying you don't like something that your dominant did is not being annoying. The question I have on that line somewhere in here where they were like, I worried about being annoying.
The question, the follow up question I would have is, is that because that's the vibe you're getting from your partner? Mm-Hmm. or is that some insecurity you have for outside of this relationship and you worry about that? Mm-Hmm. , those are two separate things. Sure. Because one, you just get the practice and you, you have a partner who you know, you feel safe with and you learn to trust and so then you kind of overcome that. Or you have a partner who makes you feel like an annoyance.
And to me, that's all the information you need at that point. - Mm-Hmm. - . Yep. What are you doing in this relationship with a partner who treats you like your wants and needs are annoying. Yeah. It doesn't make them a bad person. It makes you fundamentally incompatible. So Yeah. I'm, if I were telling this person should, should you even try? Mm-Hmm. , I mean, it's easy to be on the outside and go I why?
Yeah. But Yeah. You know, it's, - I mean the thing is, you know, if, if they really do wanna try Mm-Hmm. and say they put their all into it. Mm-Hmm. , um, you know, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. And a lot of people need that to know that they have done everything they can. Right. Absolutely. You know, before they can, you know, break away from a situation.
So, you know, that being said, if this is really something that you want to try to continue with this person, you need to work on the communication. Mm-Hmm. . Okay. Absolutely. Communication, um, you know, text, - You can't tell tone - From text. You can't tell tone and, and, and you know, in, um, - Intention, - Intention inflection. Mm-Hmm. type of thing from, from text, you know, email a little better, you know, because you can Right. You, you have enough space to - Yeah, yeah, yeah, - Yeah.
Express yourself per se. So, you know, there, there needs to be definite communication. Um, and from, from everything that I've heard in all this, there needs to be some meeting in the middle. - Yeah. And there can't be assumptions on either side. No. There's no, assuming that this is fully a dominance responsibility, there are some things that Yes. It, it falls under Mm-Hmm. the dom job description. But you as a submissive are still responsible for making sure that you advocate for yourself.
Right. You speak up for yourself, you let your partner know, Hey, I didn't quite get what I needed. It doesn't mean you'll do it perfectly. It doesn't mean that the first couple times you might not be like, shaken in your boots and like nervous sweat and just like up to try to do it. Of course, of course it gets easier with time and with a partner who sort of encourages that, right? Yeah. But no, no, no. We do not walk around assuming a dominant just knows No.
'cause you gave them three words. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. One time. Mm-Hmm. But on the flip side, we do not walk around dominance. You do not walk around assuming that your partner just - Right. Whatever. I mean, you know, they, they did say in, in the question about how, you know, they know body language, you know, I know your body language too. Mm-Hmm. . But even that is not, it's not perfect. It, it, it's not perfect. You know, all it takes is, is to read something wrong.
Mm-Hmm. . And, and you may have yourself in a, in, you know, some space you don't wanna be in. Right. Giant trouble. You know, it, it is better to say the thing - Better to over communicate at this point. Yeah. Yeah. There may come a time where you don't need that as much and Mm-Hmm. , some things do become understood as the shorthand of your relationship, and so you need to speak up when something is different than usual.
Right. But you know, if you are this far into a power exchange and aftercare is still not happening at a level that you feel that you need to process and move on, then there's been a breakdown of communication, which based on what we've read, it feels like it. Right. And, and or 'cause both can be true. A total incompatibility. Yeah. And there's no point in continuing forward if, like you said, you can't find some middle ground to meet in.
Mm-Hmm. like, yes, you struggle with communication and you Dom wants a certain type of communication. Well, if that's what they want from you, then to me, what they need to do is to help you get there. Right. Like, that's just, that's just how that - Works. And that, and that's kind of the thing. I mean, you know, with, with the dominant, once you take on the responsibility of a submissive, you know, you, you know it, it's not all about the fun and games the whole time.
Right. You know, you, you are there to basically help each other. Yes. You know, grow and, and, and, and, - But as a dominant, if you have specific want things you want from a submissive partner that they are willing to give you Mm-Hmm. , then it is your job to help them get to that point. Yes. Like we're all adults here, and so a submissive partner needs to be the adult and go practice that or learn or get the resources or whatever, whatever, whatever.
Right. Mm-Hmm. . But you dole dom have certain criteria you want your submissive to meet, then it is your job to help them do that. Yeah. Simple as that. Yep. So yeah, this was complicated. , uh, I don't think there are any easy or right answers. No, no. Um, but personally I don't. I think there's an incompatibility issue now. Yeah. That's just me. - Yeah. I agree. Mm-Hmm. , - Thanks for listening to this week's q and a episode.
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