A Tangled Web: The Cari Farver Story

Alright Jesse, last week was so totally brutal for Christmas. Tell me we got something good to wrap up twenty twenty. After a breakup, a man and his ex-girlfriend are the subjects of intense stalking vandalism. Even eventually a touchdown. Stalker is Despite her family and the woman Where could she be? And what will she do too?

And I'm Jesse Pray, and this is Love Murder. Hi Andy. Hi Jesse. Welcome back everyone to Love Murder, the podcast where true crime meets human interest and where romantic relationships are often not what they see. You can find Love Murder on Twitter and Instagram at Love Murder Pod and on Facebook by searching Lovemur.

As always, if you enjoy the show, please love slash murder a five-star rating on your podcast app and help new people discover the show. And by the way, if you do leave a review, which we hope you will. We'll send you a dope sticker. Yes, please, please check out our merch store. So far the best seller has been the Trust Your Gut sweatshirt. But the stickers are really cute too, and if you leave a review or you have in the past, you get a free

Yeah, also the beanie is super duper cute, and I'm excited to wear it all winter long. Okay, so Andy, this is the last episode of 2020. I know. Well, we all know it has been a craptastic, insane, wild year. So I had to do two things. One, I had to find a wild twisty tourney. crazy story that could live up to the madness of 2020. And I also had to find a story that has been featured on 2020. Oh my God, hilarious.

Yes. So this story blew my mind. I have had this book forever. Since we started this podcast, this has been a story that I've wanted to cover. And it finally like kicked me in the butt because they just featured this story on 2020, December 4th. The episode was called A Tangled Web. So I definitely saw that. And it reminded me to read this book I've had for ages.

Which the episode was named after the book, which is called A Tangled Web by none other than Leslie Rule. And if Rule sounds familiar to you. And Rule, right? Yep, it's because of everybody's favorite true crime writer and rule. Leslie is her dog. Stop. That's so cool. It's really cool. And I have to say, true crime writing really does run in the family. She would have really made Anne proud, who passed away a couple years ago, because

This was a nail biter. I was completely obsessed with this book. I I mean, I know I say nice things about every book I read, but this one blew me away and I really hope I can. It justice. for Leslie because she did such a great job. She's also on the twenty twenty episode and I'm gonna tell you guys l most of the stuff you're gonna hear if you do watch the two hour two twenty twenty episode. But it's really fun to actually to put a face to a lot of these names.

and and see and hear some of the recordings. So I'd recommend definitely checking giving it a gander after you listen to this episode because it's a it's a great episode. Cool. All right.

On December fifth, twenty fifteen, a nine one one operator received a call from Big Lake Park in Council Bluffs, Iowa. At six forty one on the cold winter evening, the park had already been pitch black. The caller was a woman and she had survived a deadly assault, as well as suffering a gunshot wound to the leg. The woman cried through the pain, telling the operator her pant leg had filled with blood, and that her assailant, another woman, had fled the scene.

She was terrified she'd return to finish the job. The operator immediately sent medical assistant and police officers to help. The ambulance whisked the victim off to Mercy Hospital while the police sent a helicopter with floodlights and an infrared camera to scour the park and capture the attempted murderer. The device detected body heat and the ground team swarmed to the scene, only to find startled homeless people huddled in a tent, completely unaware of the shooting.

The camera detected no other warm bodies. It was as if the shooter had evaporated into thin air. At the hospital, a couple of detectives recognized the victim. It was a woman named Shanna Liz Goliar. She had been at the center of a dangerous stalking case, the target of a deranged missing woman that the police had failed to locate and question.

Now, after countless online harassments, arson, and attempted murder, was her stalker finally stepping out of the shadows to make good on the death threats that she had started three years prior? Three years is a long time to be Harassed and stalked. Yeah. One thing was for certain, Shanna, or Liz, as she sometimes went by, and her on again, off again boyfriend Dave Krupa were caught in a deadly web of deceit and terror.

But of whose making It would take four years, multiple police jurisdictions, thousands of man hours, a digital forensics expert, and some truly wily detective work. To finally get the answer to that question, and the conclusion would stun everyone involved in the case. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Twisty turns ahead, guys. So this is in essence a story of online dating gone horribly wrong. So let's call it a cautionary tale. So if you have under your 2021 resolutions,

Get online dating. This story may w change your mind.

Oh no. So this begins back in the summer of twenty twelve, which was such an innocent time. Dave Krupa was a good looking thirty five year old single father on the rebound after terminating his twelve year relationship with his children's mother. Dave had recently moved to Omaha, Nebraska, across the river from his ex in Council Bluffs, Iowa, to better co-parent as they worked through the separation.

Though Dave's parents had been happily married for over 45 years and he had been raised Southern Baptist, Dave had always questioned whether marriage was right. His hesitancy to commit on that level had eventually ended his relationship with Amy, his children's mother, and now ex, which is totally understandable on Amy's part.

To be honest. I think after twelve years and two children together, you should be able to get married. Yeah. If I was Amy, I'd be like, you know, I put in a lot of time. If if we're not there yet, we're clearly never gonna get there. Yeah. So now the question of marriage was completely settled for Dave. He did not see himself getting married now or ever. Especially if it wasn't gonna work with Amy because they were

pretty much extremely in love. And they had the two kids together. So if it wasn't gonna work with her, it wasn't gonna work with anyone. Yeah, so weird. So crazy. That being said, he was lonely in a new town and looking for some companionship.

So he joined dating site Plenty of Fish, where he was brutally upfront with the women he connected with. He told them he had just gotten out of a heavy twelve year relationship and he absolutely wasn't looking for anything serious. Is Plenty of Fish uh Christian? No, that's um Christian Mingle. Okay. And even eHarmony is like a little churchy, I think. Okay. But plenty of fish is for everybody. In fact, I think it's the most popular dating. Really? Yeah. It's like

Even more than match, I'm pretty sure. Crazy. It's not one I tried. Full disclosure, met Nathaniel on OKCupid in 2013. I get some credit with this. Oh,'cause you made me sign up for online dating. Yeah. Uh yeah, Andy is actually Andy's the one who put me in the I remember when we were sitting at the hotel in Union Square. Uh rude. Okay, so guys, if it was that was gonna be the full disclosure.

You're like, fuck okay, keep it. I'm the one who set you up with Nathaniel. You did actually you helped me write my whole profile. Yeah, you didn't want to do it at all. I was a little hesitant. I thought I could still like meet somebody in person, but I I would not have met Nathaniel in person. Well actually we had lived only a block away from each other for eight months. And he had been at a party in my backyard once. But Alas, we didn't meet until Andy forced me to get online data.

So thank you, Andy. Everything in my life that's good is because of you. Is that what you wanted to hear? I mean, no, but I'll take it for sure. Well, it's true anyway. It's like 90% true. All right, back to the story. So yeah, most of the women he chatted with seemed okay with this at first.

One of the first women he truly connected with on the site was a woman named Liz Goliar. So her real full name is Shanna Elizabeth Goliar. And she goes by Liz when she meets Dave. So for most of the story, I'm going to call her Liz. Okay. If you hear me say Shanna, it's the same person. It's just that's her given first name. Okay. Okay.

Liz was about the same age as Dave, with kids around the same age as Dave's, a boy and a girl just like he had. Liz seemed warm and friendly. She was a petite brunette with a shapely figure and big brown eyes. So Dave looks like trying to think in the pictures of when like it's when it's twenty twelve. He looks younger than his thirty five years. He kind of looks like a ginger Matthew Lillard. Oh my God. Okay. Yeah.

And then in the 2020, which was shot this year, he's older obviously, and he actually looks a lot more handsome. Like he's filled out a little bit. He has a beard. And now he looks like, I don't think you're gonna know who this is, but some of our listeners might. He looks like the wrestler Daniel Bryan, who is Brie Bella's husband. I don't know who that is, but I know you always talk about them because you think we're like them because they're pregnant at the same time.

Guys, I'm so embarrassed Andy brought this up, but I actually like kind of followed. Bree and her sister, the Bella twins. Um, and it's because they were pregnant at the same time and they were also due like eight days apart, just like me and Andy. And um the one that was due after found out she was having a baby boy, but the Bree didn't find out at all.

And that's like Andy. So I'm like, they're like us and they're they both ended up having boys. So this is why I think Andy's going to have a boy. Because of the Bella sisters. Um because of people I read about in a tabloid. So I am really embarrassed about this. This is a really embarrassing story. But yes, my theory about Andy's child sex is due to us magazine.

Oh my god. I love it. So yeah. So he kind of has that like rugged, filled out look now. So I think he's cuter now. And Liz doesn't really look like anyone famous. I tried really hard to think about somebody. Who looked like her, but she looks like somebody who is like absolutely super duper cute in high school. And then you run into them like years later. And they still are kind of cute, but they look really like tired and they put on some weight. Oh God.

Doesn't mean I know it's a terrible thing to say, but like you could still see she was cute. But she just she just looks like like rough like life hasn't been easy for her. Let's just say that, okay? Yeah. Was she raising her kids by herself? Yes, she's a single mother.

I think her her kids came from like different dads and like um sh she, you know, sh we'll get into her past a little bit later, but she had some very serious ups and downs in her life and like tragedy from an early age. So I think that was all You know, going on. It all attributes you. She had had a

So they bonded over their kids and after five dates got intimate and had the talk. Liz said she totally understood where Dave was coming from and that she too was pretty slammed with her house cleaning business, kids and pet.

However, after a couple months of casual dating, Liz seemed to change her mind. She started dropping by Dave's house at odd hours and seemed upset if he was going out on other dates. She also started hinting that she wanted something that was more concrete and more

Yeah, so he likes her, but he had been very upfront with her that this wasn't going anywhere. So Dave continued to remind Liz that he was not committed to her, and she made it clear that she wasn't seeing anyone else. He told Leslie Rule I'm not all there is, he told her. I'm just a guy. Go on some dates. Go get laid. I'm not like that, she insisted, stressing that her morals were too high to do as he suggested.

I'm not going to do what you're doing. Well, don't expect me to change, he warned her. You're wasting your time. I'm going to date and you should too. Liz shook her head, adamant that she didn't plan to see anyone else. She told him that she had deleted her profile from Plenty of Fit. Well I'll help you make a new profile, he suggested. Ew Uh huh. This is also if you want a relationship, you have to trust a guy when he tells you he doesn't want to.

Yeah, yeah. Like this is like the you know, there's that famous quote that's like believe somebody when they tell you who they are. Yep. Or when they show you who they are. He was very upfront. You cannot change somebody. Like

When I was dating, I would like straight up tell people what I was looking for on my first date and I was not worried about like looking crazy. Because if they were like they really don't want a commitment, then I wasn't gonna waste like 15 more dates finding that out, you know? No, fuck that.

Yeah, so I feel like he's kind of a jerk, but she should have listened to what he said and and moved on, you know? Yeah. So he said if Liz wanted to hang around hoping he'd change his mind, that was her choice. He didn't really like want her to leave necessarily as long as she stayed on his terms. Like he enjoyed hanging out with her. He enjoyed having sex with her. So he wasn't going to like tell her to get lost. He just wanted her to not

want a commitment. It's fucked up. It's super fucked up. So he continued to see other ladies, but there was no one who knocked his socks off, made him rethink his bachelor stats.

Oh my god. Until a few months later when he met Carrie Farver. Dave was a mechanic in Omaha and Carrie had come in to fix her Ford Explorer. As the two leaned over the explorer's hood, they accidentally brushed hands and felt a lightning shock of chemistry. Yep. So Dave tried to be professional and ignore it. But he was delighted to find Carrie's profile on Plenty of Fish later on. And he sent her a message saying simply, Hey, I know you.

Carrie was equally enthused to connect with the cute mechanic and revealed later to a friend that she had actually set up the profile specifically to attract Dave. who had mentioned he was on the dating site while they were talking over the car. Stop. I was gonna say that's so ironic that they're both on there. Like Uh-huh. Well he like had dropped hints that he he wanted to drop hints that he was single to her. So he was like

Yeah, I'm new to the area and you know, I'm trying to meet new people. I'm on plenty of fish. Like online dating is wild, huh? And she was like, Oh, hmm. And then like got on that night. Hilarious. Yeah, it was super cute. So Carrie was a 37-year-old single mother of a teenage son and a brilliant computer program.

Dave described her as witty, charming, and the smartest woman he had ever dated. She was tall and fit, and so this is kind of more old school because I don't think she's been in anything super recently, but she looks like um actress Rachel Griffin. who is best known for her role as Brenda in Six Feet Under. Dan loves that show, but I've never Oh okay, I do have to tell you guys that it is the most satisfying series conclusion episode in the history of T.

Really? I if Dan loves it and you y I would re watch it with him, it's heavy because it takes place in a funeral home. Yeah. But the last episode I was crying. I've never had something feel so tightly beautiful and like wind up an entire series like in such a satisfying and profound way. Yeah, he says a lot he says

'Cause it's just it seems heavy. It seems super heavy. Yeah. I would recommend it. It might be like a little too heavy for 2020, but hey, we're going into 2021. Maybe you're ready for something more. Lately I've been wanting escapism. Escapism. But yeah. So if you do check it out, she looks like Brenda on six.

Things with Liz weren't going great at the time, as she continued to push for a greater commitment, and he obviously wasn't ready for that. And she continued her odd habit of stopping by unannounced, so Carrie seemed like a breath of fresh air. She was easygoing, beautiful, funny. Their first date occurred on October twenty ninth. twelve at an Applebee's, where they had drinks and dinner and an all around.

So the date went so well that Dave invited Carrie over to his place to play some cards, wink wink, and she enthusiastically accepted. Carrie's son was spending the night at her parents back in her hometown of Macedonia, Iowa, where she also lived, so she was free as a bird to see where the night would take them. Unfortunately

While they had been at the restaurant, Dave's enjoyment had been somewhat dampened by Liz blowing up his phone. In a span of about ten minutes, he had received twenty calls and texts. What? Yeah, that's a lot. So he excused himself to go to the bathroom and called Liz back. She demanded to be let into his place to grab some things that she had left there. Dave let her know that he was on a date, but he'd make himself available the next day for her to stop by.

Carrie and Dave then drove separately back to his place and he recounted for Leslie Rule what We met at my place, we went inside, and we didn't even get to sit down before my phone was blowing up again and the security doorbell was ringing. That was Liz trying to get my attention. Dave could ignore his phone, but not the obnoxious buzzer on the security doorbell. It was loud and grating, and there was no way he and Carrie could have a conversation with all that noise.

His intercom was broken, so he had to go to the building's vestibule where Liz stood on the other side of the locked glass door. I need my stuff, she insisted. I want it right now. You don't need to come in right now, Dave said. I have a date in here. Red faced with tears drifting down her cheeks.

She stood her ground. I need my stuff. I'm coming in. I'll bring it to you later. I want it now. Defeated, Dave went back inside. I've got a situation here, he told Carrie, explaining that a woman he'd been dating was nearly hysterical, refusing to leave. Later he would remember what a good sport Carrie seemed about the whole thing. She laughed it off. She said something like, Okay, we've all been there. Call me when you get it straightened out. It did not bother her one bit.

He walked Carrie to the security door where a pouting Liz waited. He didn't bother to introduce the women, and they didn't acknowledge each other as he played gatekeeper. He let Carrie out and Liz rushed in.

Liz comes into the apartment and gathers up her stuff and we kind of have a heated conversation. She is upset and when she finally gets her stuff, she doesn't want to leave anymore. She wants to talk about it, argue, cry. She wasn't happy with me at the moment. I asked her to leave. I wasn't up to dealing with her. I was very Here my first date with Carrie is ruined, and now I get Liz.

At that point, I just wanted to shut my door and call tonight. Not long after that, maybe ten minutes or so, I called Carrie. She was on her way to her house and she invited me out to her place.

Woo hoo hoo. It was barely nine PM despite all the drama, so Dave gladly accepted. Liz's behavior hadn't done anything to dampen the mood, and quickly the two were making out. Carrie stopped. Carrie stopped Dave before things went any further and explained that though she saw a lot of promise with him, she wasn't looking to commit. She had had two failed marriages already and was looking for something fun and casual.

Dave felt like he had hit the jackpot. Fun, pretty, smart as a whip, and just looking for a good time. Oh hell yeah. Liz, in the meantime, sent Dave some rambling emails requesting closure, but also wanting to keep the door open for a friendship down the road. Dave mostly ignored any overtures made by Liz, eager to focus on his budding relationship with Carrie.

The two were inseparable almost immediately. Within only two weeks, Carrie had a massive project at her work, a programming company called West Corp, which was conveniently located only blocks away from Dave's apartment. So he invited her to stay for a week so she could avoid the long commutes back and forth to Macedonia.

The arrangement had been working out seamlessly for a few days when Dave left Carrie at his place as he left for work at six thirty in the morning on Tuesday, november thirteenth. She was still in her pajamas but already in work mode doing something on her laptop when Dave gave her a kiss and said goodbye. She seemed in a great mood, and the two were excited to see each other that evening.

That's why it was especially weird when Dave received a text from Carrie asking if they should move in together. Around ten AM that morning. What? Yeah, he was totally caught off guard because even though they were kind of playing house at this point for work purposes, Carrie had once again reiterated that she had no desires for a serious relationship. So Dave was really taken aback and he answered no to her out of the blue question.

Twenty seconds later, Carrie responded And excuse my language, this is a quote. Fuck you then. I'm seeing somebody else. Don't contact me. I hate you. Go away. What? Super weird. David was shocked by this, and also when he discovered she had unfriended him on Facebook before the weird text exchange had even occurred.

When he arrived home that evening all of Carrie's belongings were removed. Dave was disturbed by the abrupt shift in Carrie's behavior, but figured he had just dodged a bullet. I mean He hasn't dated in twelve years while he was with Amy. He must think that just all women are crazy now. Yeah. I I feel like this happens though, like in obviously this is like completely, you know, extreme circumstance. But I feel like

Relationships usually This is way different than I thought. Especially going from dating in your early twenties to your mid late the early two thousands to two thousand twelve. It's like a totally Yeah,'cause that means he g oh god, he was really young when he got together with Amy. It was two thousand.

Oh my God, it's totally different time. So yeah, it's it's also just different expectations. If you're dating women in their mid to late thirties, they're gonna want different things than girls who are 20, 21, 22, you know? Yeah. So Dave was like

Ugh, I really liked her. This is super shocking and disappointing. But then, you know, he's like, uh, you know, maybe it's for the best. At least like the thing with Liz had been so ongoing that at least it like burned quick through quickly. Like this was two weeks and she's out of his life.

But his relief turned to horror when he began to get vulgar, intrusive text messages from her only a couple of days after their breakup. The messages were all riddled with insults and bad grammar and spelling. And a lot were focused on Liz, who she had barely run into that one time and he had really never talked about again. So he had no idea why all of a sudden she was like Insulting Liz, especially calling her things like fat, ugly whores.

It just seemed really like he had only known her for a couple weeks, but it seemed really uncharacteristic and it was just bizarre. So Dave was completely bewildered. She had seemed really nonchalant and easygoing when she had had that run in with Liz, but maybe it was all an act. He had to remind himself like that he didn't actually know her that well, you know. And then it got even crazier because she started harassing Liz.

So this is what he told Leslie Rule and she recorded in her book. When Liz called to inform him that his crazy ex was harassing her, she wanted to know how in the world the nut had gotten her phone number. How had she gotten her email address and how did she know where she lived? He was shocked, yeah, when Liz told him that not only had she been getting threatening emails and text. But that Carrie had apparently broken into her garage and painted the words horror from Dave on the wall.

Whore, like whore from Dave, like from comma Dave, or like whore from Dave, like whore from Dave. All one sentence, no comma. Doesn't even make sense. Like I it's also how she from Dave. It's not like he gave birth to her. Yeah, but maybe she's like that's how she references her horse. I can't imagine having so many horrors that you have to reference them. Horror from Steve, horror from Michael, horror from Or from Dave. I wish you guys could see Andy right now.

Oh so he hadn't really expected to start dating Liz again, but they ended up starting to talk about the situation and he kind of felt bad about getting her dragged into this mess with this woman he dated. You know, he couldn't fault her for being miffed, and he was grateful she didn't blame him entirely. Uh the world was full of nuts, she acknowledged, and it was their bad luck to encounter one.

Though if he had just been satisfied with what he had, then they wouldn't be in such a horrible situation. So she's like. I forgive you because you're crazy axes stalking me, but maybe if you had just committed to me, this wouldn't have happened. Touche. Duche. Yeah, touche. This is what you get. The grass isn't always greener. Sometimes the grass is crazier. Sometimes the grass is really sharp. And scary. And full of razor plates. And you think it's exciting, but it's not. It's an illusion.

So he listened as Liz described the vandalism that she had come home to. In addition to the graffiti on the garage wall, some old checks had been taken from her garage. She reported the vandalism and the theft to the Omaha police. If Dave had any doubt about the identity of the perpetrator of these crimes, those vanished when they both received an email from Carrie gloating over her handiwork in Liz's garage.

Liz's missing checks were tied to a now defunct account, but she said it bothered her someone could write bad checks in her name, even if they were. One of the checks in question surfaced, or rather an image of it did. It was nearing midnight on Saturday, November seventeenth, when a photo of a signed check for$5,000 was sent to Nancy's phone, and Nancy is carried.

Along with another text message. The check was made out to Carrie, signed in Liz's legal name, Shannon Goliar, and the notation indicated that it was for the purchase of Carrie's bedroom. Liz told police about the stolen check, and though they thought it was bizarre that Carrie had sent the photo of the check to her mother, it was basically she she had sent it to her mother and was like, Hey, this person is buying.

furniture from me. So you something it was really, really random. But she sent it to her mother. But they thought maybe it was just like a weird way to steal$5,000 from Liz. Essentially like writing herself the check, you know, and trying to catch it.

Meanwhile, Carrie's mother Nancy was extremely concerned about her daughter. Carrie had apparently not reported to work on that Tuesday the thirteenth, the same day she had disappeared from Dave's apartment. And she had started sending him those harassing messages. Nancy had received a strange text as well from Carrie, one informing her that she was taking a new job in Kansas.

This came as a shock to Nancy, as not only was Carrie extremely happy with her work with West Court, Could not have imagined any world in which she would make plans to displace her teenage son Maxwell from his home and school, where he was heavily involved in sports and extra career.

Nancy became even more alarmed when Carrie missed two incredibly important events that first weekend. First she missed her half brother's wedding, and then her best friend's baby shower that she was supposed to host. This was absolutely unlike Carrie, who had been above and beyond considerate, respectful, and giving to her friends and family for her entire life. Especially the fact that she was supposed to have picked up her son Max for the wedding as he was an usher in the ceremony.

Nancy said that Carrie would never leave her son hanging as he had been the absolute center of her world since she had had him when she was twenty-three years old. When Carrie failed to pick up Maxwell or attend the rehearsal dinner on Friday, Nancy reported her missing to the police. The police didn't seem concerned at first. Carrie was a grown woman who was allowed to skip events or choose to take an out of state job if she was.

Nancy was further alarmed with follow up texts from Carrie in which she used poor grammar and spelling. This was absolutely unlike her daughter who used meticulous grammar even in text. During the police report, Nancy informed the police that a few years back, Carrie had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and she had left her medication behind at home. Rather than this increasing the urgency of the search, it decreased it in the officer's perspective.

So they said that people who went off their medications routinely acted erratically, or at least in some of their loved ones' perspectives, seemed to have personality shifts. So She told them like, hey, she left her bipolar medication behind. This is a sign that something bad happened because she won't do it. And they instead took it as she's bipolar and offer meds and you're just overreading.

So at this point, two separate law enforcement agencies in two different states were conducting two totally different types of investigations, and neither agency was aware of the other's case. Iowa was looking into Carrie's disappearance as a missing person, while Nebraska was investigating the break-in and vandalism at Liz's, which was thought to be Carrie's handy. It would take years for the two cases to come together in a cohesive way.

Carrie's stalking of Dave and Liz had just begun. While her mother was desperate for signs of her, Dave and Liz wished she would go away. As November came to a close, Dave was bombarded with up to sixty texts and emails a day. This is like a month after she's broken up with him, too. So it's like so bizarre. It's been going on much longer than they were dating.

It gets even worse because a lot of these texts or emails would be like, I know you're at home right now and you're wearing a red t-shirt. Like they would like say that she knew where he was, what he was wearing, what was it accurate? And it was accurate. So Dave's a little bit of a macho man. He's like, whatever, I feel confident that I could handle Carrie if she decided to attack me. So he's like not being as concerned about this as he should.

But he is getting very concerned about Liz, who also seemed to be Carrie's target. He later told Leslie Rule that having a common nemesis brought him and Liz closer together, and they began to date again. When you first started the story I definitely thought. Yes, right? Isn't it twisty turny? It's like who's the crazy one? I was like, Shannon Liz. Like that

Uh-huh. Liz is short for Shanna. That's what Nathaniel said too. I was trying to like recap this episode. He's like, Why do you call her Shanna sometimes and Liz sometimes? I'm like To some people she goes by Liz, to other people she goes by Shada. He's like, hmm, red flag. Yeah, yeah.

So compared to the stress of being stalked, the conflicts he'd once had with Liz seemed trivial. Their tormentor, as usual, was aware when they were together, because remember, he she is watching him whatever he's doing, you know? Yeah. Sometimes Liz and I would be hanging out watching a movie together and we'd both receive

Caught up in the movie, their troubles momentarily forgotten, the sudden alert from their phones was jarring. Liz's phone was usually tucked into her purse across the room when this happened. Only one person contacted them simultaneously, the stocker.

As their phones chimed in unison, they would stare at each other for a moment, delaying the inevitable. Dave remembers Liz sighing in exasperation as she retrieved her phone. He felt a flash of guilt when her eyes widened in fear as she read the latest threat. As usual, the texter vowed to harm Liz while professing devotion for Dave.

Despite the fact that he hadn't been the one to end his relationship with Carrie, the notes he received now expressed romantic feelings for him and didn't acknowledge that there had ever been a breakup. So she seemed like she was like pretending like they were still together or something. Like she was completely off her rocker.

After the garage incident, a text was written, so how did Liz like having her life destroyed while she was with you? That's what will happen to everyone else who comes in. Meanwhile, Carrie remained active on Facebook. On November twenty-first, her family was shocked to see a new post. Moving to Kansas for a great job. We'll miss my family and great friends. On November twenty sixth, another appeared. Hey, got a great guy, David Krupa.

Well they were certainly not together. Moving down to Kansas. Now if I can get my son to move with me, I'd be so happy. Dave had not seen Carrie since the day he'd gotten the breakup text, so the reference to them as a couple was another sign the stalker lived in her own warped world. Most alarming to Carrie's family was the idea that somebody could be planning to take Matt.

Nancy had also received texts from Carrie insisting that Max go away with her. She didn't believe that Carrie was the one posting on Facebook and texting her, but she couldn't be certain, especially after Max verified that his mother had once mentioned the possibility of moving to Canada.

Oh my God. Yeah. So Nancy was devastated to have to begin the process to have herself and her husband formally declared Maxwell's guardian, but she had no choice. I mean, Carrie's been missing at this point for a couple months. She just hoped that if and when Carrie returned she'd understand, so she mourned when Carrie's thirty eighth birthday passed with no words.

But she began to give up hope of Carrie being found alive when Carrie's father, Dennis, died on December 7th, 2012, after a long illness, and no one heard. Not long after Dennis passed, Nancy dreamed of her ex husband. In the dream, he no longer appeared sick, he was strong and vibrant. He said, Nancy, she's with me. She immediately woke up and realized that it had been more than a dream. She said it was very, very vivid, too vivid to be a story her subconscious created.

The ache in her heart was soothed by a sudden certainty that Carrie was okay, maybe not here among the living, but okay in the world. What? So her mother now believes that Carrie is dead and that she's in heaven with her father, who is Nancy's ex-husband. And that there's somebody pretending to be Carrie. That's what Nancy thinks. But back here on Earth, Carrie was very much alive to Dave and Liz and they were in hell. Okay, only alive to

Just to Dave and Liz. Well, she was still talking to some of these other people. Like she talked to some of Carrie's friends. She even Facebooked Max. But she never got on the phone with them. It's very fishy. Very Plenty of fish. Very very plenty of fishy over here.

As the two bonded over Crazy Carrie's behavior, Dave relented to a semi regular relationship with Liz. Though still not monogamous, Liz was granted a guaranteed Wednesday night date each week. Oh, she's the Wednesday girl. She's the Wednesday girl. You don't even get a weekend slot? That's not prime time, baby. Dave felt like it was the least he could do after reigning such destruction on her life with his insane ex.

Of course, that didn't stop him from wooing other women on plenty of fish. Perry certainly tried to. So in May of 2013, he met a pretty single mother named Jessica McCarthy. While chatting, the two friended each other on Facebook. So they haven't even gone on a date or met each other in person. They just connected on Facebook after they met on Plenty of Fish. And that's when Jessica's nightmare begins.

The same day Jessica friended Dave, she received a Facebook message from a woman named C. Leah Farver, which read, So you must be Dave's new whore. He has herpes from the whore he was dating. I would watch out for him. Yikes. I would be like, I don't know what messy stuff you got going on, dude, but I am not getting involved with this. I wouldn't necessarily believe this person, but i I'd be like, I'm I'm done with your whole thing.

See Leah also promised to find Jessica and vandalize her car as she had that other whores car, quote. Though Jessica had never even met Dave, the threats continued. This gets so scary and so wild. So this is an account from Jessica as told in the book to So whore I'll keep messaging you. He has been with me for five months. I will run off any woman who tries to be with him. He is sleeping with three people I know, and I got rid of one whore. She's really fond of that word, huh? Yes.

At nine forty two PM the next message hit her like a fist in the gut. Yes, you're not learning by what I'm telling you, it began, followed by profanities before delivering the threat. I will come kill you and your fucking kids. I have uh killed a dog owned by David's last whore he tried to be with. This is we've had like so many animal killers in the last like quarter of this year. There there's animal killing in this episode too, guys. I'm sor sorry to tell you. Yeah.

It it's a quick mention, but it's worth saying. So I'm No squirrels were murdered in this one. Jessica was shaken. It was bad enough that she was a target, but when her kids were included in the threat, it both frightened and angered the young mother. Had this person really killed a pet? Jessica had refused her tormentor's friend request and blocked her, but that didn't help. The stalker had created many Facebook accounts, most in some variation of Carrie Farver's name, and she continued her.

At eleven fifty-three PM, another message began by noting that Jessica had failed to cut ties with Dave. The bully knew that she and Dave were still Facebook friends. When Jessica read the next line, she felt sick. I will cut your kids' throats and yours while you sleep. Holy shit, Jesse. No, this is terrifying. Can you imagine you're online dating? You Facebook friend a guy and you start getting these messages.

The stalker tried every angle she could think of to hit a nerve. She tried scaring her with a herpes lie, threatened her car, then her children. Then she went back to the vandalism threats and started hinting she'd tell Jessica's estranged husband she was cheating on him. Jessica was free to date, but she was not dating Dave. They'd never even met. He seemed like a nice enough guy, but she wanted nothing to do with the drama and decided not to meet him. Of course.

At eleven AM a new message popped up. Well, keep going, Horn. You won't have a family anymore. I will take everything for you. Jessica reported the harassment to the Douglas County police on May eleventh. She was threatening my children. Any good parent would do anything they can to protect their children, and I was terrified that something would happen. Now there was a police report, but the cops could not stop the threats. The police had tried for months to find the stalker and gotten nowhere.

Despite her police report, the terrifying messages and threats kept flooding in, including one where the stalker revealed Jessica's address and sent her photos of her son. Oh my god. Jessica finally unfriended Dave and texted him she was no longer interested in speaking to him. The harassment abruptly stopped.

The stalker was busy also attacking Liz and Dave still. She sent Dave a picture of a woman who resembled Liz duct taped in a trunk. Threatening to kill Liz if Dave refused to stop seeing her. Dave immediately called Liz, who is thankfully safe and sound and not locked in a cartrone. Another time the stalker set up an obituary for Liz on the site remembered.com.

And the nutjob sent Dave a link to the obituary where they had written under a photo of Liz. I didn't know her very well, except that she was a whore and a man. She kept stealing my man, she is unable to get her own man. Thank God she is gone, good Richard. Guys, there's also so much. There's so much more. This is I'm just like touching on highlights. Like there were so many more women she harassed that Dave like went out on one date with. He had like

And on again, off again friends with benefits who like broke up with her boyfriend and had like a rebound weekend with Dave who got harassed. Like this this person is insane. Carrie's Facebook profile was active, but her messages to loved ones were confusing and painful. She refused to answer personal questions that would identify her as the real Carrie, and she wouldn't jump on a phone call so that her grieving family could hear her voice.

Carrie's friends and family were desperate to unmask her impersonator, but it seemed the cops were unable or unwilling to help. Around spring of twenty thirteen, Dave had a particularly weird experience with Liz, not Carol. Coming home from being out one late night around like eleven PM or midnight, he saw Liz crawling army style out from between the building and a car at his house. appearing to be hiding and lurking

So this is super weird. He said I was fairly inebriated. I hollered at her a couple of times, she didn't come out and she didn't answer me. He couldn't figure out what kind of weird game she was playing. annoyed and too cold to pursue it, he went inside and shut the door. Then my phone started blowing up. It was Liz. She was calling and texting me. She said, I'm sorry, I'm drunk. I was over across the street at the bar with my friends. I don't know what I'm doing.

Too drunk to realize she'd been crawling like a crab across dirty pavement on a freezing night, but yet she had managed to sober up at record pace and leave Dave a coherent message. It's weird. So that seems highly suspect.

Turns out the bizarre midnight stocking sesh at Dave's was really just the tip of the iceberg on some seriously disturbing behavioral patterns of Lizard. Shanna Elizabeth Goliar had been born in nineteen seventy-five. And when she was only three years old, her mother was killed in a car accident caused by an eighteen-year-old epileptic boy who was not supposed to be driving. So

We're gonna go back and do a little backstory on old Shanna Liz over here, okay? Little Shanna was placed in a few different foster homes where it was speculated that she may have faced various forms of abuse, though those claims have never been made. When Shanna Liz was barely twenty, she married briefly and lived in Michigan, but she was divorced by the time she was twenty-two and had moved on with a young man named Raymond.

Raymond's mother and stepmother immediately took a dislike to Shannon. And I'm mostly gonna call her Shanna in the past portion because they all knew her as Shanna, okay? Yeah. Though Raymond noted some less than desirable qualities in Shanna, including her routinely performing self-harm during arguments. We've seen that before.

And becoming almost scarily jealous of his female friends or coworkers, he just chalked it up to immaturity and a dramatic personality. Shanna had moved in with him almost right away, so this made breaking up with her even more difficult. By the time he was ready to pull the plug on their relationship, she announced she was pregnant.

Yikes for real. Raymond was surprised, but he was happy. His delight turned to confusion, however, when Shanna was eight months along and moved in with her new boyfriend, 21-year-old Neil Munster. What? Yeah. Oh my god. We're just about eight months. Can you imagine dating right now? I gotta kinda give it to her. Like she's she's She's got something going on because right now I'm not even dating Nathaniel. Ha ha ha.

Oh my god. Uh so just like Raymond's maternal figures, Neil's mother Gloria instantly hated Shanna. This is another like mama knows best, trust your gut situation. Neil suffered from an intellectual disability that Shanna exploited, according to Glory. I got a bad vibe from her, remembers Gloria Munson, adding that she could see Shanna was manipulating her son. He's slow. He believes what people tell him. He was always kind of naive.

If he thinks that you know what you're talking about, you could tell him the sky is really fluorescent purple and he'd believe. So Cody Nathaniel Goliar was born August twenty fifth in nineteen ninety eight under Shanna and Neil's care. Raymond was rarely allowed to see his son when the baby was only five months old. He mysteriously stopped briefly.

I'm serious as a five month old stopping breathing. The baby was rushed to the hospital, but was dead on arrival, and the autopsy showed that the infant had in fact died of shaken babysitter. I was gonna say five months is pretty far.

I think you you I mean your SIDS risk goes down after the first year, so it's very possible. Um but they definitely do autopsies when when kids die this way and this kid Shook and not an R U. Though Neil reported that Shanna had called him in a panic the night before, yelling that he had to get home because she had dropped the baby. He also admitted that he had been playing a light-hearted tossing game with the baby to make him giggle.

I think a baby who's five months is too young for you to be throwing him in the air, even if it's making him less. So he was completely guilt stricken, you know, thinking that this was absolutely his fault. But let's not ignore the fact that Shanna Liz might have done something to the baby as well. Yeah. So somebody had shaken Cody violently, but there was no proof that Neil had done it. No one could prove when Cody had been shaken.

So, with shaken baby syndrome, symptoms can start quickly, especially in a badly injured child. Other times it may take a few days for swelling to cause. Several people had interacted with Cody in the days leading up to his death. Cody's mother Shanna had claimed she dropped him. Had she done more than that? Was Shanna fed up after five months of Cody's colicky wailing? Had she shaken him and then concocted the dropping story to make possible injuries appear accidental?

No one knows the answer to that, but observers noticed that Shanna didn't behave like a typical grieving mother. Within a day or two of Cody's death, Gloria ran into her at Walmart and was shocked by her cheerful mood. Shanna was with an older couple and the woman smiled at Gloria and said, We're treating Shanna to a new wardrobe. Gloria was taken aback when she saw how excited Shanna was about the shopping spree. Shanna looked so happy. She didn't act like a mother who just lost her baby.

Raymond too was baffled by Shanna's behavior. Well, this is yeah, this is weird because if something happened to my baby, I would I would just be like in a hole. I don't know. I don't even know if I'd survive it. I wouldn't be shopping at Walmart a day after he died. No. No.

Raymond too was baffled by Shanna's behavior. Numb with grief, he was more confused than ever as she bounced between him and Neil. But Neil was soon out of the picture. Police decided Neil had hurt Cody and they arrested him. After he went to jail, Shanna slept with Raymond. Raymond always suspected Shanna was involved in his child's death and remembers that police too suspected her at one time. She may have been a suspect, but Neil took the fall.

When he was arrested and charged with second degree murder, the Munsons hired mm-hmm The Munsons hired defense attorney Morris Esteen. But the best attorney in the world can't help a client who isn't upfront with Neil was clearly under the spell of Shanna and trusted her word above all others. Trusted it more than the advice of the attorney his parents paid to save him. Even worse, Shanna offered up letters to the police that Neil had supposedly written her from jail admitting to the crime.

The only problem is that Gloria said that there's no way Neil could have penned the letters. They were far too articulate for her intellectually disabled son to have written. Neil barely assisted in his own defense. and eventually pled guilty and spent eight and a half years. Neil's friends and family stood by him throughout his incarceration and have never wavered in believing his innocence. He is now a free, married man with two happy, healthy children that nothing happened to.

Many believe that baby Cody might have been Shanna Liz's first victim, though certainly not her. Nathaniel and I were both right. Yes, you were. I didn't actually like write a reveal because I was like, Andy's gonna guess it. So I at no point wrote like Shanna's the crazy one. I know. I could have guessed it earlier, but I wanted to leave a little bit of curiosity. Thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate that you didn't just like bust in. But it was really funny or restraining myself.

You were so restrained. So guys, I think this comes as no surprise to any of you, but it is Shanna Liz pretending to be Carrie. Yeah, I was like when I start talking about her backstory, you're gonna you're gonna if you you were already there, but everyone's gonna be right on the same page again.

Yep, so Shanna Liz went on to have two more children with two different men, and luckily those children survived, though they spent ample time shuffled between Shanna's various lovers and friends as she sought out new relationships. A girlfriend of one of her baby daddies named Melissa reported seriously scary stalking behavior on Shanna's part, including once barricading the woman in her boyfriend's apartment.

And sending her numerous photos and videos of Liz and the boyfriend having sex. So this was like his new girlfriend. And and Shanna's the ex, Shanna Liz is the ex, and she is sending the new girlfriend explicit sex videos of her and her Yep, Shanna also keyed and vandalized Melissa's car and often impersonated her, drastically dyeing and cutting her hair to match Melissa's and taking out credit cards.

Mm-hmm. In the summer of 2012, when Liz had met Dave and ostensibly become obsessed with him, she had already been dating a serious boyfriend named Garrett for two years. I know I was just gonna ask so. I think that she just does there's like a certain flavor of guy that just really gets her crazy on because it sounds like some guys she just takes advantage. And like she doesn't want a commitment with them either, really. She just wants to get stuff from them. And then there's other guys.

that maybe it's like the ones that won't commit or the ones that actually leave her or something. She gets completely like insane. It seems like Dave was even more of a special case. He had that magic dick. He must have had a magic, that magic ginger dick, baby.

Yeah, so remember when at the beginning when she's like, I'm not that type of girl, I wouldn't date two guys at once like you are? She had she was in a serious relationship while she was saying that to Dave. So while Liz was out with Dave and God knows who else, Garrett would watch Liz's kids. Often Liz would tell him that she was going for overnight cleaning work sessions.

And that made Garrett confused as to why Liz was always broke then if she was always working and working overnight. He was constantly giving her cash and paying her bills. By the time summer of twenty thirteen rolled around, Liz's financial situation had become so dire that she was getting kicked out of her Section Eight housing. Garrett's roommate had recently moved out, so he invited Liz, his girlfriend, and her children to move in with him. But once she moved in,

He basically had an entire like basement area of his house that was like it's kind of its own little apartment. Like you still had to share the common areas, but had its own bathroom and stuff. Okay. And he thought that she was gonna move into his bedroom because she's his girlfriend.

And the kids were gonna share the basement. And instead she moved in the basement and she basically was like, I don't want you to come down here. This is my space. And she made it clear that they had more of a roommate relationship, only she was never gonna pay rent. I guess that they were still sexually active together at this point. So she does treat these guys very differently because she all she wanted was like to get Dave to a commitment and have

him want to move in with her. But for Garrett, she's kind of just using him, you know? All the while she was still dating Dave, but despite her best efforts, Dave seemed to be slipping away from her again. So she needed to up the ante and have Carrie do something so egregious it would propel Dave back into her arms.

She started the moving in process to Garrett's home on july thirtieth, but wasn't being evicted officially until august thirtieth, with her children and possessions already safely stowed at Garrett's. Liz set fire to her old rental house sometime in the very early morning hours of August 17th, 2013.

Firefighters were called to the home around eight fifteen that morning, and while relieved to find that there were no humans who had lost their lives in the blaze, four pets had died from smoke inhalation while trapped in a closed room. Two dogs, a kitty, and a snake had perished. But think about that. She closed that door on them and she set her own house on fire. She knew they were

Ugh apparently like she just thought they were expendable. I mean, maybe she thought that like Dave would feel worse for her if she had more of a loss, you know? The fire investigators immediately suspected Arson, and Liz was only too happy to point them in the direction of the stalker who had been harassing her for months. According to Liz, Carrie had set the fire intending to murder her and her children. She had proof, a threatening email she pulled up on her phone to show the police.

As the police continued to investigate the arson, Liz tearfully called Dave, who had broken up with her, and reeled him back in. He felt terribly that due to his crazy stalker acts, Liz had lost her home and her pet. He obviously had no idea that she had already moved in with her other boyfriend, and of course that she had committed the arson herself.

Yeah, I wonder if she thought like she could manipulate him into inviting her to live with her him, you know? Probably by saying, I don't have a house, you know? And he was like, God, that sucks. Bye. See you next Wednesday. See ya on Wednesday though.

In spring of twenty fifteen, Carrie's disappearance had gone cold, and a new investigative team was brought in to breathe fresh life into the case. Detectives Dodie and Avis, a dynamic, intelligent pair of young fathers, ended up being the ones who had put the puzzle pieces together on this bizarre and twisty case.

Right away, the two men were thinking out of the box. They decided to tackle the missing person's case by having Avis work it as if she were alive and Dotie work it as if she was dead. But they found nothing to suggest that Carrie was alive. She dropped out of the lives of her dying father, her teenage son, and everyone else who loved her. No one had seen or talked to her for two and a half years. She had abandoned her house, her car, all of her possessions.

She had not withdrawn money from her bank or used her credit or debit cards. It appeared they were investigating a homicide. But if Carrie was deceased, then who was sending messages in her name? Only the killer would have the motive to make it appear Carrie was alive, but it was an unusual scheme. It would have made way more sense for the culprit to distance themselves from the whole situation. Why in the world would they impersonate their victim for over three years?

One thing was clear. This was not a typical homicide, and the killer was not a typical suspect from a tangled web. When it comes to female victims, fifty-eight percent of the time the killer is either an intimate partner or a family member, according to a twenty eighteen global study, which is We know it's always it's always a family member or it is almost a hundred percent of the time on this show, a romantic or f family member.

Investigators aware of the statistic looked closely at David Krupa. Not only was he the victim's boyfriend, he was the last known person to see her. But he'd been nothing but cooperative. And they quickly ruled him out. They found themselves focusing on someone else, a woman whose name popped up so frequently that it had to be more.

The first time her name surfaced was just two days after Carrie was last seen. Listen to this. This is you mean names? Yeah, yeah. On Thursday, November 15th, 2012, a West Court supervisor received a text from Carrie's phone. I won't be coming back. I'm taking a job in Kansas. Sorry for the short notice. I am sending someone out to you to fill the position. Her name is Shanna Golier. She put herself up for Carrie's job. How are you so stupid?

West Corp had a rigorous hiring process, first screening resumes of promising applicants before inviting the most impressive in for a series of interviews. Carrie's recommendation was especially ludicrous because Shanna had no training in computer coding. A manager at West Corp. I mean, what was she thinking? A manager at West Corp forwarded the message from Carrie to his superiors, adding his own comment, I'm not putting a lot of faith in the recommendation.

Shanna filled out an application a few hours after the text was sent to West Corps supervisor. Under reference, she listed Carrie Farver. She did not get the job.

As detectives studied the end plus females and texts, signs of Liz's obsession with Dave began to emerge. Both he and Liz had allowed downloads of their phones early on, and investigators now became familiar with the strained dynamics of their relationship as they read the thousands of words that passed between them. The messages attributed to Carrie were strange. They found the email from the January 2013 kidnapping hoax, the one I told you about, the woman who looked like Liz.

Yep. Well, the metadata on the photo revealed that it was taken with an LG Spectrum cell phone model number VS920, which is identical to one of the phones Liz. So they're like, uhhuh. I used to have that L G that flip up, remember? Yeah, I had a razor baby. I had the sexy razor. I liked efficiency. And then I never had like a sidekick. Did you ever have a sidekick? No.

Yeah. While the two detectives started turning an eye towards shady Liz, they also took time to visit Nancy, Carrie's mother, and tell her for the first time that they were sure that her daughter hadn't dropped out of her life on her own free will. Nancy burst into grateful tears that the authorities were finally taking her daughter to the

I mean this is so devastating. Nancy knew right now. Really so many years had gone by at this point and nobody everyone would just be like, Oh, your daughter just left, get over it. And she's Yeah, she's bipolar. Mm hmm. Nancy's such a sweet woman too. You just like fall in love with her while she's like doing these, you know, the datelines and the twenty twenties. She's just such a genuine

wonderful like Midwestern mother, you know. Nancy and detectives Dodie and Avis would end up growing extremely close throughout the investigation. She would go on to describe them like some Yeah, these guys are now. Uh she has an older son named Adam, who's older than Carrie by a couple years. But yeah, these detectives are really cute too. They're both like youngish dads.

And they talked about like all the hours that they put into it, like at the detriment of their family and how they wanted to do this for Nancy and for Carrie. And and they're just like kind of cute in general. One kind of looks like like a bulldoggy cop and the other one's like cute and young and fresh faced.

Meanwhile, life for Liz wasn't going too hot in the fall of 2015, and that's without her knowing that she was a suspect in homicide. Garrett had finally dumped her and had requested she move out, and Dave had shown her for the one millionth time that she was absolutely not a priority in his life. After months of begging, he had agreed to spend the Thanksgiving holiday with her

But when the big day came, Amy's son Mason, who was just a baby and not his son. So he had two older kids with her. And then she had a baby with another guy, but they had also broken up. Okay. Um but he like looked at this. I mean, these are this is his kid's brother, you know, like he's connected to this kid. So the poor little baby came down with a fever of one oh three and a terrible respiratory infection on Thanksgiving.

So Dave decided to drive Amy and the children to the hospital so the baby could be checked out. Liz, of course, picked a huge fight with Dave about this and continued to blow up his phone until he finally ended it for good because he was How can you be such a evil shrew that there's like a really, really sick infant and you're like bitching about your Thanksgiving dinner, you know? She kills babies. Yeah, because she's she's worse than you think, bro.

Now Liz had no boyfriends and no place to live and she was pissed. She decided that impersonating Carrie was no longer serving her nefarious purposes and decided to go after her new rival, Dave's ex A. Yeah, watch out. On December fourth, Liz herself walked into the sheriff's office to file a harassment order against Amy.

Avis and Dotie were besides themselves to see a suspect stroll into the office on her own accord. They played dumb about the investigation and were very interested in what Liz had to say as she spun her case against Amy. They were fascinated as she discussed her deteriorating relationship with Dave and concerns for him and for herself. Liz told Avis, not even two days after we broke up, his apartment was broken into and his gun was stolen.

So I told the police officer I was kind of worried since Amy has a key to his apartment. Dave's gun had been stolen, but it was absolutely stolen by Liz. She went on to tell them about Carrie and the years of torment, but said she now realized that it didn't really make sense for Carrie to stalk Dave. She said, they only dated for two weeks and I don't understand why a person would still be stalking him almost three years later. I don't know either, Liz. It defies reason, you complete asshat.

They're like carried on Liz, Shanna? Yes. Shanna Liz. Yeah, they were talking about how they were like had to pretend they didn't know every detail about this case and that it was like kind of like a celebrity walking in. They were like, Oh my god, there she is. And then they're like, so his name is Tim Karka and she's like, It's Dave Krupa and they're like, Krupa with a C and she's like, It's with a K and they're like pretending like they have no idea what's going Yeah.

So Liz also showed the detectives threatening texts and emails that she had supposedly received from Amy. I mean, she should have just learned how to code because she's spending a lot of time on computers. Yeah, it would have been better. Exactly.'Cause she's spending a lot of time working all these sites and apps and stuff. The Wiley officers convinced Liz that they needed to do a complete download of her phone in order to preserve the evidence.

And the dumb dumb took the bait. Liz thought. She handed it right over. Oh, she is not smart at all, huh? No, and she's the worst kind of dumb. She's the dumb that thinks she's smarter than. So Liz thought because she had deleted the incriminating evidence from the device that it wouldn't show up. But she was wrong, of course.

While the phone was being poured through by the lead digital forensics officer, another shocking event occurred the very next night. So the day after she, you know, reports Amy for harassment. On december fifth, twenty fifteen, Liz was shot in the leg while taking a walk in the early evening hours in Big Lake Park and County.

So that was the story from the beginning. Yeah. Liz would later report that though she didn't see her assailant's face, she recognized her voice. She identified Amy Flora as her shooter and attempted murder. Of course, the detectives immediately went to Amy's home, where they found her in her pajamas home for hours and completely bewildered by the accusation.

The investigators put their hand on the hood of her car and it was ice cold. I mean, there was just no way it was used as a getaway vehicle, only minute. Furthermore, Amy permitted a search of her home and they couldn't find a single firearm, any incriminating evidence, anything that was like fishy. She was just shocked. She was immediately cleared. So here's This bitch, Shanna Liz, in the hospital having shot herself directly in the leg.

For what? I mean she's lucky she didn't hit an artery for a guy. So Oh ridiculous. There's like other than to save my child's life, there's no one could get me to shoot myself for anything. Anything. Though the police went through the motions of pretending to investigate other suspects in the shooting, they were pretty pretty sure who was responsible for Liz's injury. Yeah, we're pretty sure you shot. I'm pretty sure you did it to yourself, you dum dum.

As special duty digital forensic specialist Anthony Kava poured over her phone, he began to untangle a web of deceit Liz had spun using multiple emails, social media sites, and apps like Letter Me Later. Which allows you to schedule texts and emails to be delivered at a specific time, hence the text from Carrie arriving while Liz's phone was across the room.

Uh and I was wondering how she did that. Well that's when I was listening'cause I listened to this one on Audible. I kinda like read and listened at the same time. And I remember when I was listening to it, I was like, okay, so she can't do it, right? Because she's not texting him. They're in the same room and she's receiving them at the same time. So I was tricked too.

She is a tricky bitch. Also, this is like going down like in 2012, 2013, 2014. Like I feel like maybe now I would be more aware of that technology, but I don't think I would have in 2012. I wouldn't have thought of it. Thank you. Yeah. By the time Kava was finished with the investigation, he had put in three thousand unpaid overtime hours, discovered over twenty thousand emails and texts that Liz had sent as Carrie. And of course, staggering amounts of digital evidence.

Oh, the things this poor guy must have seen on her phone. A search of Liz's car had come up with a bizarre blonde wig and some other items that made them believe that Liz's first goal might have been to shoot Amy, but out of desperation she shot herself instead to pin it on Amy. They put a GPS locator on Liz's car with an alert that would immediately call the police to Amy's residence if Liz's car lingered there for an extended period of time.

Which later on she ended up throwing a brick through Amy's window and they could completely pin it on her because they had the GPS on her car. Wait, they don't No, so there's a reason they're not arresting her yet. In mid-December, while recuperating, Liz sent Detective Dody an email that she received from Amy titled, I shot you.

So this is they're trying to get her on Carrie's murder. So they need her to think that they believe her, you know? Dodie explained that their office had discovered Carrie's remains. And that based on Liz's amazing help and Amy's bizarre willingness to confess crimes to Liz, he needed Liz to help put Amy away for the murder of Carrie. The remains, of course, had not been found, but the ruse was designed to get Liz to incriminate herself as well as hopefully reveal where Carrie's body was.

as she attempted to pin the murder on Amy. Yeah. So Liz had a couple of months to decide how she was going to accomplish this. And she was busy moving into a new apartment in Persia. Persia, Iowa, after Garrett paid for the first last and deposit on her new place. Apparently he was just like so desperate to get her out. He was like I will pay whatever it costs. He paid for the moving vans. He's like, please just get out of my life forever. I mean I don't blame him. It's worth it.

Meanwhile, the cunning detectives made a genius play designed to drive Liz crazy so they could catch her in the next unbelievable act. They told Dave Krupa that they were concerned for Amy Flora's life, which wasn't entirely untrue. And they encouraged him to temporarily move back in with Amy and the kids in order to protect her.

Now, they obviously didn't need Dave to be there because they had officers like patrolling the area. What they were really doing was setting up a real situation designed to infuriate Liz, to have him look like he's moving back in with his ex. Wow. Yeah. And Dave didn't even know. So he was kind of got played. He found out later and he's like, ah, it was for a good cause.

The detectives knew their plan had worked on february first of twenty sixteen when Liz called them crying, saying through sobs, looks like the only person that benefited was her. So she gets to shoot somebody and then she gets to kill another person and then she gets to move in with Dave and she gets to be free and you guys aren't even arresting her. That's what it sounded like on the recording. Did it really? Yeah, did they play it on the twenty twenty.

A little bit more crying and less mocking,'cause I did it a little mockingly. So this is from a tangled web about how the cops really wax. I'm sorry, said Dodie, though he really didn't sound very sorry. He explained that he needed more specific information in order to build a case against Amy. It's really tough right now because Amy's not really talking, he stressed. If the dumb cop couldn't build a case from everything Liz had sent them.

Then she would just have to make it easier for him. Dodie wanted Amy to talk, she'd talk all right. Amy would talk her way right into a cold grey prison cell, and Liz would do a celebratory jig as the doors clanked shut behind her. She rolled up her sleeves, prepared to write a confession that would leave no doubt that Amy was the killer. She decided that Dodie would be more impressed by Amy's confessions if he discovered them himself.

Later that day, Liz dropped by his office to offer access to her Google account, explaining it was too much trouble to forward Amy's emails. Liz gave Dodie her password and he began to monitor her email. Within hours, more confessions from Amy, in quotations, appeared. Some of it sounded like pure fantasy, but a few details were chillingly accurate. The killer described Carrie's tattoos, including a yin yang image on her thigh.

While Carrie's missing person flyer indicated she had four tattoos, the yin-yang symbol was not mentioned. In fact, investigators were unaware of it until they read about it in the Amy Imposter email penned by Liz. Carrie's family verified that she did indeed have this tattoo and it was in a private area, and no photos of the tattoo had been posted on the web and no post referenced.

Anthony Kava thoroughly searched the internet to rule out the possibility that the letter writer could have learned about the tattoo in an innocent way. He concluded that only someone who'd come into very close contact with Carrie would know about it.

The emails also described the inside of Carrie's home, the small all white bathroom, the leather couch and love seat, and the wooden bedroom furniture. Dodie knew the description was accurate because he'd seen the photos the previous detective had taken. I noticed several consistencies in the emails after reviewing them all, Detective Dodie recalled.

Carrie was stabbed in the chest or the stomach area. The incident happened in her vehicle. The body was burned, it was disposed of in the garbage. The vehicle was cleaned after the fact. Then it was returned to Dave's apartment. The perpetrator posed as Carrie after the fact. She contacted Carrie's mother after the fact. She went to Carrie's residence and took some of her possessions.

Yep. So this was basically the reason why they said that they had already found the remains was to yes smoke her out. But also they knew that if she thought that they had the evidence, she would mimic the evidence to make it more conf the confession more compelling, you know?

So the police went back to Carrie's SUV to scour it for evidence as they now believe that is where the murder had taken place. An initial cursory search while Carrie had still just been a missing person hadn't turned up anything. After removing the car seat covers, they discovered plenty of blood evidence, and they began to revisit items that had been discovered in Carrie's car, including a mint container that had one perfect finger.

That it would eventually be matched to none other than Liz Goliard. Although this po like Carrie was just a phenomenal human being, beloved by all. She dated this guy for two weeks. Two weeks and his crazy ex-girlfriend. Isn't that devastating? Wednesday night girl. It wasn't even his girlfriend. Yeah, his crazy Wednesday night girl.

After reviewing all of the evidence, detectives realized the homicide had likely occurred in Omaha and these guys were in Iowa. So they began to network with their brothers across the river to take Liz down. Search warrants were granted for both Garrett's house and Liz's new apartment in Persia, and at Liz's apartment they found Carrie Farver's camera and camcorder that had been in her car. You caught girl.

Omaha police detective Dave Schneider brought Liz in for an interrogation, where he grilled her about the evidence found on her cell phone. The fingerprints that matched Liz found on the mint container and Carrie's car, and all of the false emails. But Liz denied everything. Like she is such a scary so psychopath that she just straight up lied and denied looking him right in the face and demanded an attorney.

She's like, nope, I've never been in her car. Nope. I didn't write those emails. Nope. I don't know what you're talking about. They're like, We we have your her camera and camcorder in your house. She's like, I don't know how they got there. I've never been in her like cheese. bold face, just denied everything. They have um video of it on

It's wild. So she ended up hiring one of Omaha's most celebrated defense attorneys, James Martin Dean, known by most as JMD. The best part is that she even swindled her lawyer. She didn't want to pay everything up front. So they said that she had to offer proof she would be able to pay his hefty bill. So she falsified tax return records to make it appear she was making far more money than she was. And JMD admitted later that she ended up stiffing the bill completely. Oh

She's crazy. Also, defense attorneys are usually pretty wily, and she got that over on him, huh? The Omaha police were forced to release Liz momentarily while Dodie and Alice. Avis found more compelling evidence. They found receipts from two purchases made on Carrie's debit card three days after she disappeared and matched a shower curtain to Liz's current home. That had also made its first appearance in the background of her bathroom selfies right around the time of the murder.

Mm-hmm. The smoking gun evidence though came with Dave Krupa's help. Kaba had asked him to turn over any electronics in his home that Liz had used. One day, Dave recalled a barely used tablet that was currently in storage. He dug it out and Kava recovered deleted photos that had once been on an S D card from Liz's phone. One photo depicted a human foot with a tattoo on it in an early state of decomposition.

The tattoo was a match for Carrie's. This was proof that Liz had had access and even sickeningly had taken a photo of Carrie. That tattoo was the Chinese symbol for mother. Leslie Rule wrote about the meaning. I thought this was very eloquent. Mother, it was a role she loved, and of course she loved her own mother. How perfectly fitting that this symbol of the thing most sacred to her would be the single most powerful piece of evidence to embrace.

Carrie's family and friends were so lost without her. Her mother and son especially needed justice before they could move forward with their lives. Carrie had gotten the tattoo to honor them. But as she endured the hours of pain at the tattoo parlor,'cause top of your foot tattoos, man. Not fun. Not fun. She had no idea that the new symbol she wore would one day before. Oh I know I thought that was very well written. Leslie Rule's great. It's super duper set.

Shanna Elizabeth Goliar was arrested, and she and her attorney decided to waive her right for a jury. The Bench trial was set for May 10th, 2017, giving the prosecutor only four months to prep for trial, which is wild because usually they have like a year or something This was completely intentional on JMD's part. A bench trial would go through much faster than a jury trial, and they didn't want to give the police any more time to find the body or the murderer.

So they were racing the police because it's really hard to convict without a body. Luckily, Brenda Beadle, the prosecutor, had the investigative dream team of Dodie, Avis and Kava on her side. Avis would end up sitting at the prosecution table during the trial, helping to quickly pull up evidence. Beetle needed on a laptop, and Kava even put off surgery for a brain tumor for months so he could testify in court. Yeah, these guys were committed. He said

I wasn't going to do anything that might jeopardize the case. Certainly, someone could read my report and give testimony about the findings, but I felt I knew the material better. With surgery, I could expect short term neurological issues that might affect my memory and ability to concentrate. I did not want to risk losing what was in my head that I intended to turn into testimony, he struck.

adding that if he testified while recovering from brain surgery, a defense attorney could argue I was not in my God. That is some crazy dedication. Oh wow. On May 10th, 2017, the trial started promptly with Shanna Elizabeth facing the charges of first degree murder as well as second degree arson for the fire she set at her rental.

The prosecution was facing an uphill battle because just like the defense hoped, Carrie's body had never been found. As they say, no body, no crime, recently popularized by a new Taylor Swift song. However, the digital evidence was overwhelming, not to mention that pesky detail of how Liz's fingerprints had gotten on items found in Carrie's car.

In closing arguments, JMD argued that any evidence the prosecution had was circumstantial, and what's more, the idea that Shanna Liz would kill for Dave Krupa was ruddy. He said, quote, Dave Group is a nice guy, but who can say he's worth killing for? And that's what they're trying to say. I feel like if Dave Kru I was Dave Group, I'd be like, I've been through a lot, and now you're just insulting me in open court. Really?

So rude. The prosecution's Brenda Beadle made an impassioned plea for justice for Carrie and her family. Judge Timothy Burns delivered his verdict in court on May 24th. He ruled. Carrie Farver did not voluntarily disappear off the face of the earth. Very sadly she was murdered. The court finds beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally killed Carrie Farver with deliberate and premeditated malice on or about november thirteenth, twenty twelve in Douglas County, Nebraska.

The court further finds beyond a reasonable doubt that during the defendant's twisted plot of lies, deceit, and impersonations through digital messaging. The defendant, on or about August sixteenth, twenty thirteen, intentionally caused damage to her residence and property inside her residence located here in Douglas County, Nebraska, by intentionally starting.

Carrie's family and friends were moved by the verdict. Dave, Amy, and all of the others who had been terrorized by Liz were just relieved she would be behind bars.

Shortly after the verdict, JMD got a call from Shanna Liz from jail demanding he make a plea deal on her behalf. Um, not only had a plea deal never been on the table, it certainly isn't offered after you get convicted. Sha Shannon Liz would not only not pay him, after all, she would go on to appeal to verdict citing incompetent legal guidance, which the Supreme Court of Nebraska ruled against.

Yeah, they were like absolutely not. Also, like in the afterward, Leslie Rule goes on to say like he recently won like best defense attorney in Omaha. Oh my God. Shanna Elizabeth Goliar was sentenced to life in prison for first degree murder and 18 to 20 years for arson in the second degree. Sentences running consecutive. She is currently incarcerated at the Nebraska Correctional Center for Women in York, Nebraska.

Liz still claims she's innocent, which is actually great news, because as we know, you don't get parole if you don't admit and atone for your sin. And so unfortunately she was not L Wapped and Life can actually I think anything from 15 to 20 years or more. It means that she could get up to her whole life if she doesn't get parole. But it's possible that she can get paroled. In fact, according to her inmate information, her first parole board review is due in November of twenty.

Wow. Yeah. So I hope I mean this is a case where I think her parole will not be granted, especially if she's not owning up to it. And it seems like this person would absolutely 100% reaffect. Yeah. Like she's she has a long history of stalking and harassment and she potentially killed her own baby. She definitely killed Carrie. I I don't think they should ever let her out. They killed she killed her.

And her cat, yeah. She's dangerous. Carrie's mother Nancy is still in touch with the detectives that works so tirelessly on her daughter's case. Kava, Dotie, Avis, and Schneider often tour the country to speak about cybercrimes to law enforcement. Max Farver Carey's son is engaged to be married and is following in his mother's footsteps by studying computer projects. Dave Krupa and Amy Flora never reconciled romantically but are still happily co-parent.

Dave appeared on a twenty seventeen Dateline episode and the December fourth, twenty twenty episode I mentioned. He said that he plans to cooperate with every TV program Carrie's mother chooses to participate. I got her daughter killed, he says sadly, explaining that the least not his fault. No. Oh, but it would be so guilty, right? Oh God, that makes me say.

Yeah, he said I I got her daughter killed, he says sadly, explaining that the least he can do is support Nancy's decision to tell Carrie's story. He's still overwhelmed with guilt over what happened to Carrie. Nancy Rainey doesn't blame Dave. He was pretty much at the wrong place at the wrong time, just like Carrie was, she insists, adding that she hopes his feelings of guilt won't hinder him. Carrie will So Dave is still single, but he is no longer looking for love online. Oh my gosh.

Oh my god, he was right. His gut instinct was to like well actually maybe he should have just married Amy and stayed out of the dating pool. But then his gut instinct was like, Maybe marriage and dating is bad for me. Maybe you should just stay single forever, Dave. Wow. Isn't that an insane story? Yeah, that's crazy. It's insane to me she didn't get L Wild.

I guess I mean there was just too much of a leeway in the evidence and they never found the body that maybe they just didn't think that it was so overwhelming that they could, you know, throw her You know, in a pen and throw away the key, you know. Isn't that one though, doesn't it make you sick to your stomach? Yeah, I feel like very unsettled. Well it's unsettling knowing that she could be out in less than seven years potentially.

Sorry. Your kids aren't safe. Your pets aren't safe. Your snakes not safe. Snakes definitely not safe. Be careful. Oh, I think definitely, if they let her out though, like not allow her internet access because she was something else. How old was she when she got locked up? Uh she was born in nineteen seventy-five. So whatever the math is on that, don't make me do math. She's forty she's forty-five right now. So she'll be fifty.

when she has Pearl. That's still young enough to like fuck some shit up. Yeah. Yeah. And she'll go after like it'll be like God, I hope she doesn't, you know, doof anyway. Yeah, out of their life savings. They said that even in the book that when they were going through all her stuff, she had like catfished a woman for like nine months too.

She had just been all over the place. Like this is like a 300 page book, which I also highly recommend because it's just phenomenal. I I this would have been like a five hour podcast if I could have told you every insane thing that this woman did. It defies me. Why they couldn't like bring all of that up in court.

I guess it's just like it's like the internet is just a wild, wild west. There's just a lot of things that you you can't count as crimes. Like remember in Tall Hot Blonde, You know, guys, spoiler alert, if you haven't listened to episode ten, Tall Hot Blonde, just turn this episode off right now. Oh, you know what? Speaking of next episode we're having another listener recommended one. It's the same person who recommended episode ten. Eugene.

The next case next week is also recommended by Eugenie. So she is two for two and great recommendations. Um, but yeah, go back, listen to episode ten. But remember she couldn't she did the catfishing, but it wasn't illegal. Yeah, so all that was like this bizarre behavior is wild, but it's not illegal. Like Well yeah, the c killing Gary was illegal. The arson was illegal, and that's what they got her on, you know? Yeah. I wonder

I don't know. I don't know exactly what the legalities of the parole is because if it meant she was serving her sentences consecutively, it means that they weren't served concurrently, which means that she should have to serve The arson one after she serves her life in prison one. So I feel like she should be in longer, even if she does have a parole hearing in twenty twenty seven. Oh, I just

Okay, tell me you just looked her up online. What do you think she looks like?'Cause I was having a hard time with the description. I mean she kinda looks like like a lizard. But do you see what I mean? Like was once cute now tired looking. Yeah. Yeah, who does she look like? Like a really like bunk ass Alyssa Milano? Carrie's gorgeous too, guys. Go to the Instagram. She was just one of those people that looks beautiful inside and out. Like there's a goodness in her that shines through her.

Wait, hold on Andy. Let me Whoa, hold on. Yep, I yeah, I saw that one on here. Isn't she pretty? Yeah, she looks like my friend um Sari. Yeah, she just looks like very competent and sweet. Okay, I cannot believe Dave Krupa. Oh. I mean I kind of get why the defense attorney was like, That guy? Really? Oh my god. In conclusion, guys, there's there's nothing wrong with online dating. I mean, hey, so many of us out there have met the love of our lives online dating.

But you can also meet the death of your life online dating. So watch out, be safe. Meet in a crowded place, go on one million dates, and if he has a crazy ex-girlfriend, run run run run run run run. It's all good if you don't want to be the Wednesday night girl, but if you don't then Gotta move on. Or you can just be the Wednesday night girl. I mean it's all good, either way.

Thing is, you got two choices. You either down down to get around and only on Wednesdays or you move on and you meet a guy who's ready to commit. But don't say you're cool being the Wednesday night girl when you're not cool. Definitely not cool. I mean maybe that's why she went crazy because Carrie was getting Oh and as always remember Just one bad online date away. Happy New Year guys. Thanks for watching.