["WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE" PLAYING] (SINGING) Welcome to the archive We got what's arcane We got everything you want Honey, we know no names Where there are people who can find Whatever you might need If you're on sabbatical, we'll help you out for free In the archives Welcome to the archive Leave your pens home please You know where you are? In the archive, baby! Ha! [UPBEAT MUSIC]
You are listening to WREK Atlanta. And this is Lost in the Stacks, the research library rock-and-roll radio show. I'm Charlie Bennett in the jungle, no, in the studio with Fred, Marlee, Cody, and a guest to be named in a moment. Each week on Lost in the Stacks, we pick a theme and then use it to create a mix of music and library talk. Whichever you tune in for, we hope you dig it.
And our show today is called "Into the Professional Groove." Do you feel like you're in a professional groove, Charlie?
Well, I mean, groove is in the heart. And I'm really trying to avoid vocational awe. So I guess a professional groove would have no heart, but that would be like a rut. Fred, I don't know. What are you asking me? Is a professional groove a rut?
OK, well, I kind of like your description, though. But yeah, it's different from being in a rut the way I was thinking about it. It's recognizing that you're on a path that feels comfortable moving in the right direction.
Then I plead the fifth on this question.
Well, we all take different paths to end up in whatever professional role we land in. And we've talked about our roundabout paths on numerous shows.
Yeah, we have.
So today, we're going to talk to someone who is both new and not new to the archival practice.
Wait, at the Georgia Tech-- is this an "introduce yourself" show?
Well, it is with a twist.
OK.
Sorry. I need to silence my phone in a second.
That was the twist.
That was-- well, OK. No, there will be another twist. And we'll talk about our guest's professional path. And maybe we'll find out if she feels like she is in a professional groove. CHARLIE BENNETT: No ruts allowed.
So our songs today are about transitions, providing access, and finding yourself on the right path. And to set the groovy tone, man, we're all going to get into the groove. This is "Into the Groove-y" a cover of the Madonna song as recorded by Sonic Youth released under the name Ciccone Youth for whatever reason, right here on Lost in the Stacks.
It's because it's her real name, dude.
["Into the Groove-y" by Sonic Youth]
That was "Into the Groove-y" by Sonic Youth, also known as Ciccone Youth, for the purposes of--
Yeah. For that one album.
--that one album. Yep. And you're listening to Lost in the Stacks. Our show today is called "Into the Professional Groove.
And it's an "introduce yourself" show.
Right on.
So let's meet this person we're being introduced to for the very first time.
Never in the studio before.
Alex Brinson, welcome back to the show.
Hi. Happy to be here.
Right. This is actually the fourth time that you've been on the show. We're doing, like, a real-time biography of your entire career arc as an archivist. I don't know if you realize that. It's like that movie with Ethan Hawke where they shot it, and the kid grows up in real time.
Boyhood, but it's archivist-hood.
Right. Archivist-hood. Yeah, that should be the name of the show, archivist-hood. Yeah. That'll be the name of the series once we're done with it.
There you go.
Yeah, you didn't know that we're actually going to do a whole biography of your archival career. Because we started-- your first time on the show was, I think, just within weeks of you coming to--
It was really early on, yeah, in that first year residency.
It felt like a hazing, right?
It did. I was very scared.
And that's when we got to find out that you worked at the Atlanta Center for Puppetry Arts, and we wanted to derail the whole show and talk about that.
Talk about puppets.
Right. And then you worked at public libraries. You worked at AUC. And then we had you on talking about your experiences in that residency. And you wrote an article about it, about that experience, and we had you on talking about that.
So we had you on right at the beginning, and then after you'd been here a while and got your feet wet a little bit, and then we had you on talking about when you decided you were really going to be in the archives department as a resident and diving into an accessibility project in archives, bringing hidden collections to the fore.
Right. My capstone project is what they called it, right, on inclusive description.
Right. And now you're no longer a resident. You are brand new. You have a new position, which is?
I am a reference archivist here at Georgia Tech.
I feel like we should give you a copy of that Dr. Seuss book, Oh, The Places You'll Go. That's what that sounds like we were leading up to. So reference archivist-- I kind of know what that is, but I think I'd like to hear what is that job from where you sit in it?
Right. So the breakdown is kind of--
It's OK. There's stuff happening in the headphones that you can't hear. So go ahead. Just lay into it.
OK. So the breakdown is that I still do all of the archivist-y things that you would think. I still process collections to make them available to users. But then the bulk of my job is helping people find what we actually have. So answering those questions when they come in. We use LibAnswers here in the archives. So when we get questions through there, when people come to our reading desk for archives, I run that space.
And yeah, I kind of like to think of it as it's been a culmination of my time as a librarian, because I feel like I use those skills, too, on the desk, but then also archives because I've processed collections. So I kind of have that mind of how things would be described in order to help people find it. Because it's not as immediately obvious to someone just off the street coming in and looking at finding aids.
So you don't have an archivist graduate degree. You have a library science degree.
Yes. I have a library science degree with a concentration in metadata architecture.
OK. I mean, yeah, it applies certainly. I'm not trying to call you out.
No. CHARLIE BENNETT: You ended up coming as a librarian to learn all about academic libraries. You found archives, worked in it, and now you're an archivist. Right. So my degree isn't necessarily in archives, but I've always been kind of archives-adjacent like Center for Puppetry Arts was kind of-- well, that was more museum. And then when I worked at the AUC, I was doing digitization work, so I was working with archival materials there.
My only truly non-archives job has been when I was in public libraries. So yeah.
It's sort of a shadow purpose of Lost in the Stacks to explode the idea that you got to get exactly the right degree to do some job.
Right.
Right. Yeah we're trying to open librarianship-- and by "we", I mean the profession of librarianship. We're trying to open it-- open doors to more people.
Yeah. So was there a big transition? Were you kind of already doing the job and then getting it made it formal? Or did anything get added to your duties that was, oh, wow. Now I'm really in it.
So it's definitely-- it was a transition of running day-to-day things in our reading room was probably the biggest shift. I was processing materials in the residency, so that wasn't much of a shift. But designing a schedule for the people on the desk and making sure the temperature doesn't spike in the room and making sure things-- we have an off-site location for our materials, so making sure that stuff is getting back and forth without disappearing.
It's been the day-to-day stuff that is added on to my job. And then so the main shift has been that, as a resident, my focus was career development. And my job was to seek out those opportunities, write, present, do all of everything I could to develop my knowledge in archives. And now it's the day-to-day stuff. So that has been a transition for sure. CHARLIE BENNETT: Off air, you'll have to tell us how to keep the temperature from spiking. Everybody would like to know that.
It's mostly just communicating with the building team. Help. It's hot in here.
We can do that. Yeah. This is Lost in the Stacks. We'll be back with more from Alex Brinson after a music set.
And you can file this set under HF5381.M3964. [A PROJECTION, "TRANSITION"] No more staying out late No more singing on the dance floor
That was "Transition" by A Projection. And before that, "It Changes" by Amber Arcades. Those were songs about maintaining a groove through a transition. And do you want to hear a bump, Charlie? CHARLIE BENNETT: I'd love a bump. OK. Can you give me just a second? CHARLIE BENNETT: Yeah, of course I can. OK.
We can also dispense with it if you want.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
There it is. No, I really wanted to play it. And there it is. So now we're done. CHARLIE BENNETT: Should we cop to it? Once again, the Air Studios computer is on the fritz. And so we're hanging on for dear life. Right. That's accurate.
Cool.
This is Lost in the Stacks. Today's show is called "Into the Professional Groove." In the last segment, we talked about how you, Alex Brinson, got into your new position. So let's talk about what you are doing in that position now, reference archivist. Let's start with reference. What's the reference part like?
Yeah. So I get-- I would say the most common thing people ask about are their family members. Did they go to Tech? What was their time like here? Can I get photographs? When did they graduate? Things like that.
And this is not other Tech people. This is the families of Tech people who are not Tech students?
Sometimes they did go to Tech, but yeah, I've had as far back as, oh, they graduated in 1902. Can I see their transcripts? Which isn't usually something we would have. That's something else. But helping them find information on their family member. That's usually the biggest things I encounter. One of the interesting ones I've been working on right now, the family member is looking into their I don't know how many times back grandfather, but he graduated in 1902, like I said.
And he supposedly came and got his bachelor's degree in one year. He zoomed through.
Things were different in 1902.
Yes. And then went to Cornell. But supposedly, he had a building dedicated to him at some point. I haven't been able to find that information.
This is some George P. Burdell stuff.
Yeah. Yeah. We did find, though, evidence that he did have really great grades, graduated really early through Lyman Hall's correspondence. Shoutout Katie Gentilello. She helped me find that. But yeah, it's like a little mystery every time someone asks a question that's out of the blue like that. And then I get to dig around and find stuff.
And you have to through family lore. Because I can imagine that could be a story that's passed down, like, oh, yeah, I had a building dedicated to me. The truth is, I attended. I got a degree. And then it kind of gets embellished through the years.
My name was up on the wall.
Right, right. It's like, what building, though? So yeah. Yeah.
Do those usually feel satisfying to you? Whenever I get a bibliographic certification question, as a librarian, I get really into it. And if I can finish it, it's a real high. But sometimes, it's a dead end. It's just like, I don't have the article for you. I don't know how to get you this citation. And--
Yeah.
--it kills me.
That's always kind of a letdown. I think about how, when I was an adult services librarian, people would ask for things. And they wouldn't even be as invested in the answer as I was. And they would be like, oh, if you can't find it, no big deal. And they walk off. I'm still looking for the answer hours later. Because now you've brought me into it. So--
You want to tell them.
That's kind of how it is.
You set me in motion here.
Exactly.
You asked me a question, and I need to find the answer.
Exactly. So they could be long gone. But I'm still looking, trying to figure it out. And it's similar in this job, too.
You want that endorphin hit, that I found the thing.
Yeah. It could be days later. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I finally found it. So yeah, it feels good when you find the answer for folks. CHARLIE BENNETT: You also mentioned schedules, some real nitty-gritty kind of stuff. You're running the reading room now. Yeah. So I manage that space, which involves-- so everyone in the archives department, for the most part, works on the desk for an hour or two each week. So kind of giving everyone-- working around everyone's schedule is the fun part.
And then people have conflicting meetings or have to be out of town and then kind of negotiating who will cover. So that's been a large part of this job as well, managing that. And then probably the most stressful thing is not wanting to lose things when things go missing because--
Wait. Whoa. What? ALEX BRINSON: Missing sounds bad. Yeah.
But I mean, we know that archival materials are-- they're not-- you're not coming by them. You can't just replace them easily. So it's a little bit more stressful when it's like, where's this box? No one's seen it in a few years. Because when I was a librarian, books went missing all the time. And you'd put it in missing. And then put it in lost. And then it's like, oh, we'll just buy another one.
When things go-- are misplaced, I should say, in the archives, it's a little bit more stressful and like hunting that stuff down and like, who is the last person to route this to wherever? And is it at the LSC? Or is it here? Or is it the LRC?
What's the usual time gap for those? Because you're not talking about, oh, I just had this. Where did I put it? You're talking about, we know we own this, but we cannot locate it.
What do you mean by time gap? How long they've been--
You said who used it last. Is that who used it last year? Who used it 10 years ago? Who used it in the '50s?
It's not as far back as 10 years. I think the earliest, 2021, 2022, maybe things that I've gone through, our queues, what we call them and seeing who touched it last. And sometimes, they don't even work here anymore. So there are different steps you can go through to hunt it down. But yeah, nothing is full-on missing, I will say, I want to say. But that is a little panic that I get every time. It's like, oh, where is this box?
Jody, if you're listening, nothing's gone missing.
Nothing's gone, I promise.
So right at the end of the segment-- and I don't want you to leave this segment with the stressful thing. What's the best part of the reference archivist job?
Yeah, I will say the best part is working with researchers. And you help them get to solve their problem or solve-- find something that's helpful for them in their research and working with all kinds of people. My first week in this job, I worked with someone who was doing research from Germany, which was crazy, and getting on a Zoom call with them and helping them find stuff in our collections. Because obviously, that's a far way to travel, and you don't even know if we have what you want.
So working with them and helping them, so that's probably the best part.
You're right. That's a better way to end that segment.
Thank you Fred.
You're listening to Lost in the Stacks. And we're going to hear more about Alex Brinson, reference archivist at Georgia Tech on the left side of the hour.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Hi. This is Wayne Clough, President Emeritus of Georgia Tech and Secretary Emeritus of the Smithsonian Institution. And you are listening to Lost in the Stacks on WREK Atlanta.
Today's show is called "Into the Professional Groove," and we're talking to Alex Brinson about her path to becoming a reference archivist. As many archivists have pointed out, often over the years of the show, archives aren't just about preserving. They are about access. And that's an especially important point for those in the role of a reference archivist, the ones who interact directly with the public, be they in Germany or in the room in front of them. Archivists are activists for access.
And Fred, I cannot believe you wrote that line for me, A, A, A.
I'm sorry. The alliteration didn't even occur to me. CHARLIE BENNETT: I'm dying over here. I can't even say "access." As another scholar of archives, Claire Radcliffe, wrote in her 2014 master's thesis called Educating Reference Archivists, "Public services in archives has increased the importance of reference and facilitating use. This is only magnified by the increased interest in advocacy within the profession in recent years.
In order to fulfill this mandate of advocacy, a good reference archivist must prioritize the human element of archival work. Some archivists might be happy to sit in a back room all day processing collections, but that processing work is without purpose if no researcher ever makes use of the materials." I got a little "hmm" from Cody. That was nice. That was a satisfying "hmm." That was an "amen" for the amen break.
Yeah. File this set under CD950.H64. That was "Rope Ladder to the Moon" by Brian Auger and Julie Tippetts, and before that, "Put the Message in the Box" by World Party. a call to action, but we didn't do it. Songs about finding creative ways to provide access to everyone.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
I see you, Fred, getting the bump.
This is Lost in the Stacks. I did it right that time. So proud. And our show today is called "Into the Professional Groove." And we're specifically grooving on the role of reference archivist, the new position of our guest, Alex Brinson. So in this segment, Alex, I want to reflect a little bit. We talked about your career path so far and how you got here. And we mentioned your residency.
That residency, which happened a couple of years ago, that was actually specifically a diversity residency, which the intention of it-- through ACRL, correct?
Yeah.
Yeah. For that ACRL organization to find a pathway for marginalized folks who may not otherwise get a look to have a way to get into the library and an archivist world, the professional world. And of course, now we're in a time where Georgia Tech has dialed back diversity efforts. There's a lot of criticism for anything that uses the term DEI right now. But in your example, that's a very good example of how the system was supposed to work and worked successfully, I think.
So now that you got your position going through those channels and then being here and seeing those kinds of things being dialed back and those kind of initiatives being cut back, does it affect your perspective on your own career path and how you got here?
Yeah. So I will say it's been a little unreal to see everything kind of going backwards now. I am still doing work with ACRL. I'm a part of their residency interest group. And I'm working on one of their various committees. So I kind of see still doing that work and helping residents coming after me, even if it's not happening here necessarily. Having that community has been really important. Yeah. So it's disappointing to see what's happening.
But the bright side, to me-- I'm trying to look forward and how I can help other residents move into positions the way I was able to and not cut the rope after me or whatever that expression is, making sure that they can also follow that same path, if that makes sense.
Well, I feel like we should highlight that. Yeah. So instead of pulling the ladder up behind you--
Yeah. CHARLIE BENNETT: Which is not what you would have done because the ladder has been set on fire by outside forces. Right.
Yeah. The residency program, it gave you a chance to see a whole spectrum of library work. And that's-- I feel like we should highlight that also, that that's the key to the residency program is that people are able to experience all the different pieces of the library in a really systematic way instead of my story, which was I was a student assistant. And I was just around, osmosis, and made my way into the consciousness of the organization.
Do you have any paths not taken that you've been thinking about?
Of other, I guess, library-adjacent roles or-- yeah, other areas of librarianship?
I don't want you to tell us, what's your second ran? But do you see multiple careers coming out of this fellowship?
I definitely do. Something I started but didn't necessarily get to dive super deep into was cataloging. And I see a lot of rare book cataloging positions coming up lately. And I think about how processing goes along with that. And if I sharpen my cataloging skills, I could move into that rare book space, which is really cool. Those jobs don't come around very often. But it is a very niche and interesting area of our profession. So I think about that sometimes.
Did you have to stop paying attention to some potential careers? Were you interested in too many?
Yeah. I felt that a lot in library school. I've always felt that way, I think, even in undergrad, having to pick-- they had to force me to pick a major because I think they made you by spring of sophomore year or something like that. But I felt similarly in library school where they were like, pick a concentration. And I was like, it all sounds cool. I don't want to narrow myself down too quickly.
And I think that's also why I did this residency, because I just wanted one last hurrah of seeing everything that goes on in the library before I officially chose.
Positions-- you mentioned how hard positions are to come by, like in rare books. In archives in general, they're pretty competitive. And yeah, that benefit of being around-- like Charlie said, when he was a student, that diversity residency helped you to just kind of be around at the Georgia Tech Library to fall into that. And I think you are the first Black archivist that Georgia Tech has ever had.
That is what I've heard.
I think that's-- yeah, that's huge.
Which is kind of wild to think about.
I cannot believe we buried that lead. Oh, my goodness.
Yeah. And so how does that change how you deal with other archivists in the profession? Do you network and like, oh, another Black archivist. There's more of us. Do you get those kinds of connections? Or does it change maybe with people who come in to get reference services?
I think the idea is that it's less intimidating, hopefully, for folks who come in and they see someone who looks like them behind the reference desk in the archives. And it's like, oh, this is an accessible area. I'm welcome here, is the idea. But then also connecting-- you said something about connecting with Black archivists. I went to-- it was ALA, but it was Black Caucus. I think it was BCALA's conference last year.
And I was able to meet-- it was mostly librarians, but there were other Black archivists there. And so being able to network with those folks is really great because they see-- we see each other's research, and we get really excited and like, oh, you should do-- you should present here or you should write this here. And we get to bounce ideas off of each other, which is really great too.
This is Lost in the Stacks, and our show was called "Into the Professional Groove." We were joined by Alex Brinson, brand new reference archivist here at Georgia Tech. And I think we all wish we had another hour with you.
Yeah, we got a couple more shows now.
But we're planning that documentary, remember, about your whole career. So to be continued.
Exactly. Thanks. Thanks for joining us.
Yeah. Thanks for having me again.
File this set under E78.S7H27. That was "Now That I Know You" by Timo Van Lierop. I hope that's how you say it. And before that, "The Right Path" by Dark, Dark, Dark. I know that's how you say it. Songs about finding yourself on the right path to the place you belong.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Today's show was called "Into the Professional Groove." We've talked a lot today about the pathways of our profession. Our guest, Alex, is still early career. But the three of us old folks have been in our own professional groove for a while.
This Gen X middle-aged show crew.
So I'm interested to know what is the closest that the rest of us have ever come to being knocked off our current librarianship path? What about you, Fred?
Well, I don't know if I would have been totally knocked off the librarianship path, but when I first started at Georgia Tech, my family was still living in Tennessee. I was kind of commuting back and forth on weekends. And after about six months of that-- it was about eight months before we finally were all together in Georgia. And after about four or five, six months of that, I was done with everything. I was ready to just chuck it all in. That was an inflection point for me.
Wow.
How about you, Charlie?
Oh, man. Just today, I was thinking, I don't know why I'm doing this. What's the purpose of anything? I have had a very hard time having a stable professional relationship to librarianship. I've crafted my own job, crafted my own bolted-together career. And it doesn't create a groove at all. So any pothole, and all my tires fly off immediately. But how about you, Marlee? Maybe you have a better answer than I do.
I mean, I think I'm somewhere in between. I'm always kind of thinking about what else I could do. And then I just have to remember that this is the place that I'm the most comfortable. It's been 30 years. There's other things that I could do, but I don't think I'd be as happy. So--
Well, gosh.
And maybe-- Cody is the person in the room who doesn't work in the library. But maybe there's an inflection point where he thinks, maybe I'll go into librarianship. Possibility?
Yeah. How are those entry-level jobs looking for librarians?
Oh, yeah. OK, so that's--
Three years' experience, dude. And the show does not count. Roll the credits.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MARLEE GIVENS: Lost in the Stacks is a collaboration between WREK Atlanta and the Georgia Tech Library. Written and produced by Alex McGee, Charlie Bennett, Fred Rascoe, and Marlee Givens. Legal counsel and shockingly detailed genealogy charts for everyone on the show were provided by the Burrus Intellectual Property Law Group in Atlanta, Georgia.
Special Thanks to Alex B. for being on the show, to the North Dakota State University Archives for their incredible song that started us off.
Wow.
And thanks, as always, to each and every one of you for listening.
Our web page is library.gatech.e du/lostinthestacks, where you'll find our most recent episode, a link to our podcast feed, and a web form if you want to get in touch with us.
Next week, it's the first Friday of the month, so we'll be visiting another site in the Georgia Tech Library Guidebook.
It's time for our last song today. It's Friday afternoon, and I think I'm done with the professional groove for this week. CHARLIE BENNETT: You mean the rut? You're out of the rut. It's time to switch to the weekend groove. So why don't we close out with some classic 1970s disco funk? How does that sound? This is "Groove Me" by Mass Production right here on Lost in the Stacks. Have a groovy weekend, everybody.
Fred, I never know what you're going to do.
Me either.