[MUSIC PLAYING]
You must be a fearless cook. And I think we often have, as you said, fear of frying, which is very nice. But I think you should have no fear of cooking. Suppose you make a flop. If you don't apologize, nobody knows what you're trying to do.
You give it a new name.
Give it a new name.
I like that.
But just plunge-- you just have to plunge in. Supposing it is a flop--
I think that's part of your appeal.
It's usually edible. It's fun. And I think everyone should be encouraged to use it as a creative outlet.
You are listening to WREK Atlanta. And this is Lost in the Stacks, the research library rock and roll radio show. I'm Lila Bennett in the studio with Fred Rascoe, Marlee Givens, Alex McGee, Charlie Bennett, and Cody Turner. CHARLIE BENNETT: (WHISPERING) And a baby. Each week on Lost in the Stacks, we pick a theme, and then use it to create a mix of music and library talk. Whichever you're here for, we hope you-- um, dad, this script says, "Hope you dig it." But I am not saying that.
That's 1900 slang.
That's fair enough, Lila. You want to tell everyone why you're doing the introduction? LILA BENNETT: Because it's LITSmas!
Happy LITSmas!
Happy LITSmas.
Wait. What's happening now? MARLEE GIVENS: It's LITSmas, Alex, which is short for Lost in the Stacks Christmas. So happy LITSmas. Well, then, merry archives, everybody.
Merry archives!
Merry archives!
It's our last live show of the year on the Friday before the holiday break here at Georgia Tech in an empty radio station, just about an empty student center. So yeah.
Yeah. Let's do a quick survey of past LITSmas episodes, starting in 2014 with the old-timey radio special, "A LITSmas Carol."
And then we did more radio drama Christmas stories in 2015, including Cats, old movies, and parodies of Die Hard and Home Alone, because I guess we had a lot more time on our hands back then.
[LAUGHTER]
The third LITSmas was an anthology of children's stories, including all the show kids at the time, I think.
I have no memory of that.
You were five.
And in 2018, Fred and Charlie dug into HathiTrust for Christmas resources.
And I see in 2019, you all went to the movies to find archivist and librarian stereotypes.
And then in 2020, Christmas traditions and how COVID messed them all up.
And then you did ghost stories in 2021, which is my favorite LITSmas episode.
Ghosts will get you every time.
And then we traveled to Christmas Island in 2022. And last year we talked about Christmas travel all over the world.
OK. Well, now I understand why Charlie was asking about Christmas-related topics last week.
That's what we do for LITSmas. We pick a theme, and then free associate an hour of music and Christmas talk. And this year, we're talking about cooking, probably because I was hungry when I started pre-production on the episode.
And our LITSmas songs today are all about holiday fun, holiday food, and holiday treats.
Mr. Fred, can I announce the first song?
Go right ahead.
So this is my favorite song that you guys play for LITSmas. And I'm sure I can make it relate to Christmas cooking somehow. Um, so cooking has heat to make it edible, and this song has heat in it, and the heat consumes a tree. And, um, well, let's just play it.
That's all--
This is "Christmas Tree on Fire" by Holly Golightly right here on Lost in the Stacks.
Charlie, that all checks out. [HOLLY GOLIGHTLY, "CHRISTMAS TREE ON FIRE"] The Christmas tree is on fire It's burning down the house Flames are getting higher
[FIRE CRACKLING]
[SIRENS RINGING]
That was "Christmas Tree on Fire" by Holly Golightly, a cover of the Tom Heinl classic. Happy LITSmas, everybody, and merry archives. It's our holiday episode, and this year we're talking about Christmas cooking. To get us started, let me read something to you from The American Christmas, A Study in National Culture by James H. Barnett, published in 1954. "Most of the Christmas folk customs come to this country from England, Holland, and Germany.
Colonists from these countries emphasized eating, drinking, family gatherings, merrymaking, and joyousness during the Christmas season, which began well in advance of December 25. Food and drink consumed by each group reflected national customs. The yule log custom was brought from England. Though the island practice of serving the boar's head was not widely adopted. English colonists contributed mince pies and plum pudding to the Christmas dinner." So I got that quote for a couple reasons.
One, I just wanted to remind everybody that research about everything happens. We are trying to process our world as academics, and also to say the boar's head.
[GROANS]
Mhm, mhm.
So what is Christmas food to you? Why? When you think of a Christmas dinner, every time I ask Lila if she'll tell me what a Christmas dinner is, she says something along the lines of, it's kind of like Thanksgiving.
No, it's not. Christmas dinner is unimportant. I don't care if I'm eating leftovers.
Wow. CHARLIE BENNETT: So there you go. I guess we'll get that throughout the show. So what's--
[LAUGHTER]
What's Christmas food?
No, dad. CHARLIE BENNETT: Anybody, anybody jump in. It's LITSmas, so we're just talking over each other as if we were a family at home, arguing about something.
So I have a very unique family tradition for-- and this is what I think of for Christmas food. So my family actually goes to Waffle House on every Christmas Eve. And we have been doing that probably since I was, like, seven years old. And I'm many years away from being seven years old. So you can kind of guess at how long that's been. And it is because when I was seven, my mom forgot to get sausage, ground sausage, for her stuffing for Christmas Day.
This was back when grocery stores were closed early. You couldn't-- there was no 24-hour spot. So she went into the only place that was open, Waffle House, and went in and offered to buy some from the cook behind the counter. He gave it to her. And when she asked how much, she said, "It's on the house, hun. Merry Christmas." And so in homage to that very lovely chef, we go to Waffle Home, as we call it, every Christmas Eve.
What is your standard Christmas Eve Waffle House dinner?
It's what I get every time. It is the All-Star Special, cheese and eggs, wheat toast, classic waffle-- that's what I call it-- And then hash browns with onions, well done, so I want them crispy, and then medium bacon.
All right.
Yeah.
Now everybody knows your order.
Feel free to send me Waffle Home gift cards.
[LAUGHTER]
I-- I can't top Waffle House. Who's got-- who's got something?
Well, I thought about this question because we've kind of don't really have something that we do every year. But then I thought, you know what? When I was growing up, when I was a kid, I hated nuts. I did not like eating nuts, smelling nuts, seeing nuts-- didn't like anything about them. And so much of what was in the house--
Oh, right, of course.
People giving us gifts, the fruitcake, whatever-- I mean, everything was full of nuts. And I was just baffled, like, why is this so special to everyone? I mean, everyone's kind of nodding at me. Do you have memories of, like, a house full of nuts--
Yeah.
--at Christmas?
There's the sugared walnut halves or sugared pecan halves. If you didn't hear--
Praline stuff. CHARLIE BENNETT: Lila just said, ew.
Every dessert had nuts in it that I remember. Maybe an apple pie didn't.
I mean, they even put nuts on the cheese.
Sometimes even on--
That's right, [INAUDIBLE]. Hey, Fred, you've got more British connections than, I think, anybody else here.
Yeah.
Is the nut holiday a thing over there more so? Did that come over? Or is that more American, do you think?
The food that I've enjoyed, because-- so for listeners, my wife is from London. And the food that I've enjoyed over there for Christmas is the traditional mince pie, which is a small, like, pastry with candied fruit inside, which is really delicious. It doesn't sound very good, but it's really a delicious treat. They also have something called Christmas pudding, which I'm-- it's kind of a--
You know, the names--
--cake.
The names they have for food, it's as if it's just to confuse me.
Right.
I remember when I found out what mincemeat was. It's not meat.
Right. Yeah. Their mince is like what you ground up when you ground up some meat. That's mince. Mincemeat is like what you get in the pies, so it's like the candied fruit, things like that.
I'm so confused.
Yeah, me, too.
As are we all. So asking about-- Cody, do you want to get in on this?
Sure. Yeah, because I think my family's pretty burnt out on the whole cooking thing as soon as Thanksgiving's over. So, like, this year, our Christmas dinner is tacos. And it's because it's one giant thing.
I actually like that.
It's great!
Yeah.
And everyone just brings one of the key ingredients. And then you just kind of all put it together.
So part of why this is kind of wonderful for me is that this is the exact opposite of my upbringing, because Thanksgiving dinner and Christmas dinner were both the big sort of Norman Rockwell feasts with turkey, and mashed potatoes, and green peas, and onions, and a ton of gravy, and stuffing, all that stuff. We-- Lila really doesn't like this. You want to get in on the mic? You've got to explain why that's a problem.
Well, OK. So I don't mind it that much. It's just like-- I don't know-- we have to get-- like, this year I'm going to my dad's mom's house, so my grandma's house, for Christmas. And we're going to have, like, this big Christmas dinner. And it's going to be, like-- it's, like, a salmon dinner. And it's going to be, like, just so extravagant. And that's not bad or anything.
You need to know that your grandmother is listening right now.
Yeah, I know that! I'm just saying. Like, it's not bad. Like, I like it. But also, sometimes, it feels like a lot.
I mean, that's what's good about it. It's a lot.
That is the point.
[LAUGHTER]
We are eavesdropping in on some family dynamics here that I'm really enjoying.
Yeah. She's got opinions now.
This is Lost in the Stacks. We will be back with more LITSmas and Christmas cooking after a music set.
And you can file this set under BF637.R57.
[WHAM!, "LAST CHRISTMAS"]
[VOCALIZING]
[OT AZOJ KLEZMERBAND, "DREY DREYDL"]
That was "Drey Dreydl" by Ot Azoj Klezmerband, by request of my Jewish husband. And before that, "Last Christmas" by Wham! by request of everyone else.
[LAUGHTER]
It's Whamageddon.
Yep. Songs about the courage to try something special and bringing all the good food for the holidays.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
This is Lost in the Stacks. And our show today is "LITSmas." Our theme this year is Christmas cooking. So as always, we did a little research for the show. We found some renderings of, quote, unquote, "traditional Christmas dinners" from a variety of countries.
Now, in the interest of time, we can't get into the feasting details of all 160 something countries that celebrate Christmas, especially when many of those countries have distinctly different regions with different food traditions-- CF, Waffle House. This is for our entertainment, a biased and personal selection.
I'll start. A traditional British Christmas dinner as described by Carl Hanson on allrecipes.com in 2021. Disclaimer, this may not be the Christmas dinner that I've enjoyed when I've spent Christmas in England.
I mean, this is why I gave you this one, so you could comment.
OK. So Christmas prime rib-- I have never had that. I have had turkey in England at Christmas. Yorkshire pudding, definitely, and not just at Christmas all the time.
Now, Fred, Yorkshire pudding is one of the prime examples of "That's not what that is" for me. So could you explain Yorkshire pudding?
It's a bread that's kind of sweet, and it tastes really good.
It's a bread?
It's bread, yeah.
Yeah, it's bread. It's kind of like a popover.
Yeah, yeah, but it's very tasty. Braised red cabbage-- I've never been served that at Christmas in England-- probably would not have eaten it. I would have hid that under something else.
[LAUGHTER]
Inside the dog.
Praline chestnuts and sprouts-- have not had that either. Parsnip and carrot puree-- parsnips and carrots, yes-- not in puree that I can recall. Brown sugar and pork, cranberry sauce, possibly-- have had cranberry sauce here as well. English trifle-- trifle is a cake or a dessert kind of thing that's really nice. Christmas plum pudding, or any kind of Christmas pudding, I'm not as keen on, but yeah, I like it.
So the thing about the British Christmas dinner that I noticed is that it feels like even though it is not a Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner that I have had, it's got that kind of sense of the sides all kind of line up for me.
Yeah, yeah.
But then there's a lot of other things.
Well, going back to our own continent, a traditional Mexican Christmas dinner, as described by Fabiola, who blogs at myheartofmexico.wordpress.com.
Usually it has tamales, bunuelos, which is, like, a sweet, like, crispy fried dough, romeritos, which is like wild greens, bacalao, like salted or dried cod, a spicy pork tenderloin, pozole, which is sort of like a spicy soup, apple salad, beet salad, fruit punch, atole, which is a hot, like, a sweet drink-- it's like a hot, sweet drink made of, like, corn dough and water or milk. And it actually goes back to the Aztec times.
Hey, Lila, say that again, because that really knocked me out when I heard about that.
So atole is a hot, sweet drink. And it's made from corn dough and water, or milk. And it dates back to the Aztec times. And then there's also champurrado, which is like the chocolate version of that, sort of like hot chocolate.
[BABY WHIMPERING]
So I saw some of these pictures. I've got to say, I would like some apple salad. And let's go ahead and acknowledge him since he's starting to be a little vocal. There is a baby in here. So you're not crazy if you're listening at home, and you're hearing a little bit of--
[WHIMPERING]
Teddy's just trying to say hi to everyone.
Hey, Teddy.
Yeah, he wants to talk, too.
Yeah.
So here is a modern Scandinavian Christmas Eve smorgasbord, as described by True North Kitchen. Roasted salmon with brown sugar and butter, Swedish meatballs with no gravy, creamy mustard dill sauce, celery root and potato puree, spicy pickled beets, fresh pickled cucumbers, stirred lingonberries.
Now, that's something I don't-- I can't picture. I know what lingonberries are. I don't know what stirred really says here.
We need to ask IKEA.
Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Right. I'm guessing stirred in a pot, too.
And cooked down a little bit?
Maybe you cook them down a little bit, yeah. OK. Kale salad with pecans and roasted butternut squash, mushroom gratin, Swedish limpa, or rye bread, and lingonberry mousse-- double lingonberry.
That actually sounds really good. CHARLIE BENNETT: That was the one that caught my wife when we were talking about these.
I've had salad, I feel like.
Yeah. So again, this sort-- it feels like a kind of through the looking glass version of maybe a, quote, unquote, "American feast." But the tastes are so different. Like, it's really compelling. Now, like I said, there's only a few that we can talk about with 160. So I did want to find one that was very distinct.
Yeah. So here is a traditional Nigerian Christmas lunch, as described by Hauwa Zhiya a Nigerian blogger. Smoked turkey-- sounds pretty cool.
[LAUGHTER]
Pepper soup-- would do that. Jollof rice, which should not be confused with fried rice, alale, cooked bean paste.
[BABY WHIMPERING]
Teddy thinks that one sounds good. Tua--
Tuwo?
A thick pudding made from rice or corn flour. And miya, a soup like pumpkin, spinach, okra, or similar, and then fried fish. So two different kinds of proteins is what I'm saying.
And from what I understood, from what the blogger said, even more proteins, too. Throw some chicken in the rice.
I endorse that.
That's a very cool spread. And to finish off the segment, I would like to tell you all about something that I just learned, a Japanese pop culture tradition for Christmas. KFC, which was once Kentucky Fried Chicken back when I was a youth, became very popular in Japan-- I heard that-- very popular in Japan in the '70s, based partly on an ad campaign created by Takeshi Okawara-- excuse me-- Okawara, the manager of the very first Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurant in Japan.
His advertisement was explicit. Kentucky is for Christmas. And he said, this is how the Americans do it. They have Kentucky Fried Chicken for Christmas. So come on down. And now KFC chicken sells 5 to 10 times more on Christmas Eve than any other day. A bucket of fried chicken for Christmas Eve is a standard.
OK. New Christmas tradition at my house. That sounds great.
It really did sound good. You are listening to Lost in the Stacks. And it is LITSmas. We'll have more Christmas cooking talk on the left side of the hour.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
You're listening to Lost in the Stacks on WREK Atlanta.
Do you believe in WREK?
I believe in WREK.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
It's LITSmas! And we are talking about Christmas cooking. Sometimes when we choose a theme, it takes doing the pre-production to really tease out its importance. Prepping this show, I was directed to an episode of The Daily, a New York Times podcast hosted by Michael Barbaro, which featured Ina Garten.
The queen.
Oh, the queen, as Alex says, also a television cook and celebrated hostess. This bit, which I cut and remixed a little, because it's Lost in the Stacks, told me why cooking appealed to me as a LITSmas theme.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
To me, there's nothing as special as being invited into somebody's home as you have invited us for a meal, whether it's a dead simple backyard barbecue or an elaborate multi-course sit-down dinner. And it's always felt to me that good hosting is a kind of magic. And you are such a master of this particular art form, this magic of convening people and making the togetherness feel so special.
Well, it's what I love to do, because my whole goal in life is to connect with people I love. And it doesn't happen easily. When you have that connection, you feel like you're taking care of people, and they're taking care of you. And god knows we need that. And so that's what I try and do with my friends. I think entertaining for me is really about bringing people together and making them part of my family. CHARLIE BENNETT: Sometimes I think of the studio as a kitchen.
You want to season the pot a little bit?
That was not funny.
Savage.
File this set under TX739.2.C45 M396. [JAY AND THE TECHNIQUES, "APPLES, PEACHES, PUMPKIN PIE"] Ready or not, here I come Gee, that-- [DEAN MARTIN, "A MARSHMALLOW WORLD"] [VOCALIZING]
That was "A Marshmallow World" by Dean Martin. And before that, "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree" by Brenda Lee, something about pumpkin pies. And then before that, "Apples, Peaches, Pumpkin Pie" by Jay and the Techniques-- songs about seeing delicious festive food everywhere.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
And pumpkin pies everywhere at Christmas. Crazy. This is Lost in the Stacks. And our show today is LITSmas. Happy LITSmas and merry archives, everybody.
Thank you Fred.
So sweet.
So we were talking off air before this segment about how the nature of this show is a little bit of undoing some unconscious biases I have about what Christmas cooking is like.
Oh, I love it. CHARLIE BENNETT: Because there's-- I grew up with a very Thanksgiving dinner, and then that same kind of feast again for Christmas. The family comes together. It's all very chunked in that holiday season. And everyone else in here, including my own daughter, sort of rejects that idea.
I mean, like, not reject--
Challenge?
Sure.
Wishes to disabuse me of this notion. So for the last bit of the show-- and we have just a short segment, because it's Christmas, and whatever. Why do you all think that is? Why-- not that why am I wrong, but why do you think Christmas doesn't have that sort of standardized food connection that something like Thanksgiving, or even something like July 4th has?
Because of the presents. They, like, steal the show.
And the booze. CHARLIE BENNETT: Presents and booze.
I don't drink.
There's booze at Thanksgiving, too. Stop touching the mic.
[LAUGHTER]
Yeah, thanks for that legal disclaimer there. I think that there's validity to that. Christmas is more about the presents, and lights, and things like that. For myself, growing up, we always had a big family Thanksgiving. People coming from out of town or us going out of town. And we had the turkey. And there were always a few set casseroles that we always had to have, and the cranberry sauce, and the traditional things, a big traditional meal that didn't vary from year to year.
And then, like, less than-- or just about a month later, there's Christmas. And so at my house, it was always like, well, let's do something different. And maybe it's lasagna one year, or sometimes it's turkey.
I just had a flash to me and my brother saying, oh, it's another chance to eat stuffing and mashed potatoes, man. We really liked that meal. And so we're totally down for having it again.
If I could put my historian hat on for a moment.
Please do.
So I guess I would point out Thanksgiving is an American holiday. So that's probably why it's standardized, where when we talk about Christmas, that's global. It's international. So we have all these different cultures interpreting the traditions.
And it's a mess of European stuff brought over here. I think we can go back to A Christmas Carol, also, and really get the fundamental food idea of Christmas. Do you remember what the Ghost of Christmas Present is introduced on?
Oh, wasn't it like a mountain of food?
It's a mountain of food.
It is, yeah. CHARLIE BENNETT: All kinds of lush--
A mountain of presents.
It's not-- it's a mountain of food. That's the thing. My daughter just said-- thought it was a mountain of presents. No, it's all of this rich, amazing food. And then there's another-- I think there's another spread in the next room. And the Cratchit family, of course, has very little. And they make a big deal about talking about how, oh, it's all so wonderful, even this goose, which is described as very thin and not very meaty-- like, oh, what a luscious thing.
And look, we didn't eat all of it, because there's a little bit of bone on the platter. Abundance and food abundance became part of that idea of Christmas. But then, I guess, your vision of food abundance is always going to be different. It's going to be whatever you grew up with, or whatever your parents grew up with.
There's also a different vision of abundance in 1800s Victorian England than there is in our--
2024.
Yeah.
More prosperous times.
I mean, you imagine a pack of hot dogs back then. You're like, look at this rich man's sausage. MARLEE GIVENS: Right, right, right. I do remember my mother talking about her mother having grown up in the Depression. And they would-- like, in the bottom of their stocking would be like an orange or an apple. And I remember my mother specifically saying they treasured that fruit. And yeah, so wanting to celebrate in spite of the conditions, I think that's really the spirit of the food.
And so now there is an abundance of food. And we can get food from all over the world. So why not celebrate food from all over the world? I can't argue with it.
I'm into trying some of this Nigerian Christmas that we heard about in the last segment, too.
Jollof rice looks really good. I know I've had it, but I think I want to make it now.
This is Lost in the Stacks. And we have been talking about Christmas cooking for our LITSmas episode.
File this set under PZ7.S3565. [RUPAUL, "CHRISTMAS COOKIES"] [VOCALIZING] [THE MUPPETS, "CHRISTMAS IS COMING"] If you haven't got a penny, a ha-penny will do If you haven't got a ha-penny, God bless you God bless you God bless you If you haven't got a ha--
Uh, Miss Piggy.
Hmm?
We're finished.
Oh, I knew that.
You just heard "Christmas is Coming" by the Muppets. And before that, "Fruitcake" by Fred Schneider and the Superions. And we started our set off with "Christmas Cookies" by RuPaul-- songs about longing for holiday treats.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Today's show was LITSmas. Happy LITSmas, everybody.
Happy LITSmas.
Merry archives.
Merry archives.
So RuPaul, "Christmas Cookies," I think the only way to finish the show is to say, what's your favorite Christmas cookie, Fred?
I think I'm going to go with the standard sugar cookie that's been decorated. I made them myself for the first time this year, but in previous years, like other people have made them, and I've got to participate in decorating. It's great fun because it can be anything you cut them out of anything. I mean, reindeers, Christmas trees, but you could have dinosaurs and make them red and green and put a Santa hat on it. It's great fun.
I would like some of those cookies right now.
There's a couple in front of you, actually. CHARLIE BENNETT: There's no dinosaurs. Marlee.
So I, too, like those. I have memories of this bag of Christmas sugar cookies that they used to sell at the grocery store when I was a kid. But one that I hadn't really thought about until I saw it, I think, in I don't know somebody blog post recently-- the stained glass cookies.
Oh, yeah.
The one where they cut out the middle, and you put the candy inside. Yeah, those are fun to eat and fun to make. Alex.
I'll claim my basic millennial card and say, Alison Roman's salted chocolate chunk shortbread cookies are worth the effort.
The cookie?
The cookie.
Oh my goodness. OK. Cody.
It is the sugar cookie for me as well, but it's got to be, like, immediately out of the oven. Like, I can eat it as hot as possible.
Melt that icing.
LJ.
Well, I actually like gingerbread.
Also classic, yeah.
i Made gingerbread one time, and I was disgusted the entire time, because I didn't realize there was molasses in it. It was so gross. But I do like eating them.
[LAUGHTER]
Pass. Fred, roll the credits.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lost In the Stacks is a collaboration between WREK Atlanta and the Georgia Tech Library, written and produced by Alex McGee, Charlie Bennett, Fred Rascoe, and Marlee Givens, and also Lila Jane Bennett this time round.
Legal counsel and not pumpkin pie, because that's a Thanksgiving thing-- am I right, Alex?
Yes, you are correct.
That's provided by the Burrus Intellectual Property Law Group in Atlanta, Georgia.
Special thanks to everybody who cooks for other people. And thanks, as always, to each and every one of you for listening.
Our web page is library.gatech.e du/lostinthestacks, where you'll find our most recent episode, a link to our podcast feed, and a web form, if you want to get in touch with us and send me that Waffle Home gift card.
Oh, dear. Next week, we are on break. It's the holiday break. Everything's shut down. And we'll be back in the new year with a very loose, free cut to start the year.
It is time for our last song today. And as we have for the last 10 years-- has it been 10 years?
It's been more than 10 years, Fred.
Oh, gosh. We're closing out with the new wave '80s Christmas classic. It's entirely on theme, too, since in the story of the song, Christmas becomes meaningful thanks to what happens when a holiday meal almost goes wrong.
Oh, did you forget the cranberries, too?
This is "Christmas Wrapping" by the Waitresses, right here on Lost in the Stacks. Have a great holiday, everybody. Merry LITSmas.
Merry LITSmas.
Merry archives.
Merry LITSmas and merry archives.
[MUSIC PLAYING]