Carol Ventresca [00:00:00]:
We are looking forward our way. Hi, this is Brett. You know, many of us struggle with utilities in our homes. We may not be able to afford cost increases or access may not be reliable. Today, we're gonna hear about the Ohio Consumers Council, how the state agency ensures we have reliable, accessible utilities. Please welcome Kathryn Metz, senior outreach and education specialist for the office of the Ohio Consumers Council. Thanks for joining us.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:00:25]:
Hi. Thanks for having me.
Carol Ventresca [00:00:27]:
Kathryn, this is wonderful. We are so excited that you you and I sort of reached out to each other about the same time. I had met some of your colleagues, and I thought, oh, this would be a great podcast. In the meantime, you had emailed me, and I said, this is perfect. So we're so glad. Really, complicated information, important information. I really think everybody who listens to this podcast is gonna learn something new. So thank you for your time and trouble to come and join us today.
Carol Ventresca [00:00:56]:
But before we get to the council, we wanna hear more about you. Tell us your background and how you got to the council. Sure.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:01:02]:
I've been with the Ohio Consumers Council for two and a half years. I have a background in education and human rights. So I got my master's degree in, Budapest, Hungary, of all places, in human rights law and international justice. My my research dealt with war crimes in Bosnia and how, war criminals were prosecuted and whether it brought reconciliation to the communities affected. And I served as a humanitarian aid worker in the Balkans for several years, helping refugees who were in transit from the Middle East, fleeing war and persecution on their way way to Europe. Right before COVID, I returned to Ohio and planned to just, deliver Amazon packages for a season and go back and do some more humanitarian aid. But then lockdown happened, and I got stuck. And I really turned my life to a different direction and returned to teaching, which I had been doing prior to grad school.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:02:01]:
And, I I love being an educator, but I was looking to get outside of the classroom, outside of the middle school setting once I had my first daughter. And I wanted to find a way to combine my background in human rights and education. And I found this position with the Ohio Consumers Council, which is, a state agency that advocates for utility customers. So we we touch the lives of many Ohioans. Many people are utility customers or live in a house with utility service. And, we try to bring justice and fair pricing and accessibility, and I thought that this is a great alignment of my background and my values. And I I was hired to do outreach work for the agency.
Carol Ventresca [00:02:45]:
You know, this is a a really good example for our podcast of not just information about this agency, but also career projection. We often talk about how folks reinvent themselves and go off and do something different. And, oftentimes, educators would ask me, like, what else can I do? That's my only training is being in a classroom. There is so much you could do with an education background. So kudos to you for this these wonderful differences and changes and paths you've had an opportunity to take. Thank you.
Carol Ventresca [00:03:19]:
Yeah. And talk about the, the intro at the, the networking event. Oh, yeah. I went to school there. It's like, okay. All ears are on. You're just like, okay. More about that.
Carol Ventresca [00:03:27]:
Absolutely. You know? Good grief.
Carol Ventresca [00:03:29]:
Yes. No. I don't know that I've ever met someone who's gotten a degree from Budapest. I've certainly met people with degrees from, you know, England or or France, but not Eastern Europe. So Yeah. Yeah. What a great experience.
Carol Ventresca [00:03:43]:
So let's get right into what the Ohio Consumers Council mission, you know, talk about the agency, how it began, and why it plays such a role in Ohio residents, with Ohio residents and for Ohio residents regarding utilities.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:03:57]:
Sure. I'd love to share more about our agency. So we were founded in 1976 to serve as an independent voice for Ohio's residential utility consumers in matters related to their investor owned electric, natural gas, water, and landline telephone. We were started because Ohioans, usually don't have the energy or the resources to be able to advocate for themselves in proceedings where a utility company is, proposing a rate increase. And we saw this gap, that that needed to be filled in order for Ohioans to have a voice. So that it's not just the utility company asking for money and and our public utility commissioners, you know, approving or or, denying the rate increase. So we were founded to serve that purpose. And we wanna make sure that utilities are only charging what it costs for them to deliver a safe and reliable source of energy plus a reasonable rate of return or profit.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:04:59]:
We have helped consumers in Ohio save billions of dollars in avoided utility charges. We've also advocated for utility assistance programs for low income customers and work to safeguard consumer protections like certain disconnection protections that all Ohioans have. And And then we've also educated thousands of consumers about their rights, their responsibilities, in terms of energy choice, you know, shopping for a supplier, finding programs where they can receive bill payment assistance, energy efficiency. And something else that's interesting about our agency is we're not funded by the general revenue, of the state of Ohio. We're actually funded by an assessment on people's utility bills. So for every hundred dollars someone spends on their bill, our office gets about $2.68. And we have, created savings for Ohioans. For every $1 allocated to our office, it it creates $29 of savings.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:05:59]:
So we think it's a it's a great return on investment.
Carol Ventresca [00:06:03]:
Absolutely. I mean, there's nothing more confusing than paying a utility bill in today's world. It's certainly changed over time. And with, as you said, suppliers and providers and all of that, it's just made it so much more confusing Yeah. For people.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:06:18]:
The industry has changed over the years, and, prices have increased over the years. And and so we've been able to to speak out on behalf of Ohioans.
Carol Ventresca [00:06:29]:
Right. Right. Many of our residents actually cannot afford their utilities. Think of a senior on a fixed income. Summer heat starts, air conditioning prices, the electric prices go up, and they're stuck. They they just don't have an alternative. The council works with other agencies to ensure that those in need can keep electric, gas, phone, and water services. Can you provide us a little bit of details on those programs?
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:07:01]:
Sure. So there's a number of bill payment assistance programs, and some of them are federally funded and some are funded through the utility company itself. So I wanna make mention of some of the federal programs that are available. At the federal level, there's a program called LIHEAP. And, this program has been in place since 1981 to help low income households pay their utility bills. It's funded through block grants, and it's administered through the Department of Health and Homeland Security. And, currently in Ohio, the Department of Development receives that money from HHS and, it's distributed on the local level through energy assistance providers, which are often community action agencies. So there's a a number of different components to Ohio's HEAP program, which is what we've named it.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:07:53]:
There's the summer crisis program, which usually runs from July 1 through September 30, and this helps low income Ohioans pay their summer cooling bills. So the the eligibility changes every year. So and and the the the program eligibility for 2025 hasn't been released yet, but I can talk generally what it looks like, so people can keep it in mind as we're entering the the hot summer months. So the household income eligibility is usually about a 75% of the federal poverty guideline, which if in 2025 for a two person household, the income would have to be at or below about $37,000 a year. And, households who have a member that is 60 years or older or someone in the house with a documented medical condition or a household that's in disconnect status or has been disconnected from their electric are eligible to apply and receive a one time credit that will be applied directly to their electric bill. Benefits range and and customers of investor owned utilities like AEP or Duke or AES are eligible as well as customers of municipal, cooperatives or or rural co ops. So it's, quite inclusive who's, able to utilize the summer crisis program.
Carol Ventresca [00:09:14]:
One of our local nonprofits does a, fan cooling program, with Life Care Alliance. You could buy a fan for a senior. That's not like having your air conditioning back on. That's the thing. And it still uses electric. Right. So it it's important that individuals can keep those utilities.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:09:34]:
Sure. And I'm really glad you brought that up because another component of the summer crisis program is, the money can go towards a, AC unit repair or replacement, a window AC unit or a fan. So there there's money to help households that, you know, may need help getting their air conditioning up and running or getting a a window AC unit itself. Okay.
Carol Ventresca [00:09:57]:
So we all receive and see the utility bills, and, you know, we kinda don't wanna look at them because it it it makes you feel like a moron because you don't understand how it's broken down and you can go, what is that? What is that? What is that? Some of the things we understand, sometimes not. So most of the information just doesn't make any sense. You see cost from providers, distributors, taxes, fees, just to name a few. Can you explain the details of a utility bill just so we have a little bit general understanding about, okay, well, that's what that is, that's what that is, and and maybe hearing in the news what line might be affected by some some increase.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:10:34]:
Mhmm. Yeah. And this is a really topical question because there was just a story in the Columbus Dispatch published a few days ago about supply prices for AEP customers will be increasing and that I I think the number AEP gave was about a $27 a month increase in the supply portion of their bill.
Carol Ventresca [00:10:52]:
I I got an email from them this morning Yeah. Saying that it was gonna go up. Yep. Thanks.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:10:57]:
So something that's important to understand in Ohio is that we have a partially deregulated energy industry. So there's a delivery portion of our bill and a supply portion of our bill. The delivery portion is about 60% of our bill. Supply is about 40%. The delivery portion has been is is maintains a monopoly that we're stuck in Central Ohio with AEP as our monopoly energy distributor for electric. They own all the infrastructure that delivers the electric into our home, you know, all the towers that transmits the electric. The supply part of our service has been deregulated, and we are able, as Ohioans, to shop for an alternative supplier. So So when you look at your electric bill, you'll see a breakdown of delivery costs versus supply costs.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:11:52]:
And when AEP says their rates are going to be increasing by about 35% for the supply portion of their bill, It's important to remember that you may be able to find a cheaper supplier than AEP's default rate, which is called the the price to compare the standard standard offer. There are several ways to do that. And I think we can talk a little bit more about the different ways. And and now I'll focus on the bill. But, those are two important parts of the bill. And it's also important to look on the second page of your AEP bill where they list the supplier, and they'll show you the rate that you're paying if you have contracted with a supplier or if you are part of a government aggregation program. And you'll wanna compare that price per kilowatt hour on your electric bill to AEP or or your electric distributors, you know, company. Compare the price.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:12:49]:
See what you're paying with a supplier to the the utility company's price to compare. And make sure you're actually saving money with the supplier. Right.
Carol Ventresca [00:12:58]:
I I've heard many people who have gone to another supplier and the cheaper rate has lasted for a short period of time, and then suddenly they're paying as much or more than what AEP is offering.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:13:10]:
Yeah. And, unfortunately, we we see that. And, that's why, we we have found as an office, and and there was just a Ohio State study done, that majority of Ohioans actually save money by staying with their utilities default offer. However, with supply prices about to increase in June, there could be savings by looking for an alternative supplier. But you have to be savvy if you're gonna do this and and pay attention to your monthly bill. So while you said, you know, a lot of people just get overwhelmed looking at their bill, it is important to check it, to check the rate you're paying, to check how much, energy you're using each month. You know, if you see a sudden spike in your bill, it's good to go and look at the historical usage, which is a bar chart, bar graph on the first page of your AEP bill, and see what you were paying a year ago at that time to see if your usage was about the same. Then maybe it's a case of supply prices have gone up and you're paying more because the energy itself is more expensive.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:14:14]:
Or, you know, maybe there's something running inefficiently in your house and it's consuming a ton of energy, then it might be time to to look at your appliances or check your furnace filter, make sure, you know, you're getting a good airflow or circulation in your house and it's not working too hard, which is causing, increased consumption in your house.
Carol Ventresca [00:14:34]:
That's interesting that that study showed that if you and we'll just default to AEP. If you stuck with AEP on both sides of this, you probably won in the long run.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:14:43]:
Right.
Carol Ventresca [00:14:44]:
That's really interesting with the, you know, the deregulation of it.
Carol Ventresca [00:14:47]:
Yeah. Deregulation does not guarantee a cheaper price.
Carol Ventresca [00:14:51]:
No. No. You would think you would think it would with competition as what we're supposed to bring to the table as competition, but that's really interesting. That it and to me, I think that's a peace of mind that, hey, if you've never done the shopping and you really don't wanna mess with the shopping of a different, supplier, you're probably okay. Probably. You know, don't don't lose sleep over it, but take a look. You you haven't lost in the long run.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:15:18]:
Right.
Carol Ventresca [00:15:18]:
Yeah.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:15:19]:
And the reason is that there's a lot to pay attention to if you're gonna shop for your own supplier. So the safest way to do it, or one of the safer ways is to get on the PUCO, the Public Utility Commission of Ohio's website. They have a a site called, Apples to Apples where you can compare all of the different offers. And, you can sort them by price. But what you need to do is you need to look at, there's about eight columns you need to pay attention to of of different, pieces of information. How long is the contract? Is it a fixed or variable rate? What is that per kilowatt hour rate? Are there any monthly fees? Is there an early termination fee? And then you need to compare all of that. Pick the one that's, you know, most advantageous. And then when you sign up, you'll wanna set a reminder for yourself that in, you know, eleven and a half months, if it's a twelve month contract, check what that rate is going to jump to because if it expires and you don't cancel or renew, they're gonna automatically re renew you, and they might do that at a higher rate.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:16:27]:
And if there's an early termination fee, then you're gonna end up spending money canceling that contract. So I think we've seen people forget about it and then get signed up at a higher rate.
Carol Ventresca [00:16:37]:
Well and and then on top of a lot of people opt in, I can't remember if we do or not. They because we we I've opted in for some electronic billing and some paper billing, and I think we still get the paper. But if, you know, for me, if I get the paper, I'll look at it. But if it's electronic billing, I may not open it to look. Right. So it's one that's a really good point to do a reminder and really, every once in a while, whatever it is, really dig deep in the bills you get, especially if it's electronically delivered to you.
Carol Ventresca [00:17:06]:
Right. Right. So what about the other utilities? AEP, the electric bill seems to be the hardest to have to read through. Are the others as bad?
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:17:16]:
Well, there's similar things to look at for a a gas bill. The other electric utilities, if that's what you're asking about, I would say they're they're all pretty similar. Okay. And and gas is similar in that it's also a partially deregulated industry. So we have the delivery price and the, supply price. And, you know, you'll see the breakdown of if you have a supplier, how much you're paying per hundred cubic feet for the natural gas. So it's it's similar, the the bills, but, I think they're about equally complicated. Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [00:17:50]:
Kathryn, your job is to do all of this education, help the public know and understand what it is they're looking for, what information they need, and and sort of try to make it accessible. But it can be really difficult to educate people who most need that information. So tell us about your education programs and, how residents can remain aware of those issues on their utility bills. If they have a question about that AEP bill, do they call you or somebody else?
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:18:21]:
Well, they can visit our website. We have a wealth of resources on there, different fact sheets, about how to read your bills. We have videos that people can watch. We have a a Twitter x page, that posts, updates that are, you know, timely fact sheets for people to read or, if they're if we're involved in a resource fair in different parts of the state or if there's public hearings that are going on, we post that all the all of that on x. And, also, we have a outreach staff. So I'm one of of three, and we each have a region. I cover 33 counties in Central And Southern Ohio.
Carol Ventresca [00:19:02]:
That's all.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:19:04]:
I have a counterpart in the Northwest and the Northeast, and we travel all the time all over the place. We are happy to come speak to groups of all different sizes, to attend resource fairs and speak one on one with consumers. But if anyone has a group that they're looking for a speaker, we may be available for that. We're always trying to get the word out. This is such important information. It affects so many people. And, we're looking for opportunities to share that with people as well. And, also, something I'd like to add is when a utility when an investor owned utility company wants to raise their rates, they submit a a proposed rate increase.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:19:46]:
Our office usually creates a consumer alert, which tells consumers about the the facts of the case and how they can make their voices heard in addition to, OCC's position. So, if if consumers hear about, you know, their electric company, filing a rate increase, it's a good idea to check our website and see what information we have about that rate case and ways that they can make their voices heard in the process. Great.
Carol Ventresca [00:20:15]:
I I think most of us have heard about Ohio House Bill six, which was passed in 02/2019. The bill provided funding to FirstEnergy in order to bail out two nuclear power plants, one which was not even in Ohio. The cost would be paid by consumers and their monthly rates even though several individuals, including the Ohio House Speaker, were convicted of public corruption and racketeering because of the legislation. Utility, consumers are still paying for the cost. Do you have an update on h b six and and whether we'll be relieved of these costs?
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:20:47]:
Sure. I'd be happy to share an update. I'd like to state that OCC opposed house bill six from its inception. We've asked for its repeal 11 times. There's there's ongoing investigations. Former speaker of the house, Larry Householder, and lobbyist, Matt Borges, are both serving, sentences for federal crimes in, federal prison. This case has been called Ohio's largest bribery money laundering scheme ever perpetrated against the people of the state of Ohio. And the scandal included an electric utility, FirstEnergy, admitting to bribing public officials.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:21:29]:
And we have Ohio consumers have continued footing the bill for several aspects of this bill. Some of it has been repealed. However, the coal plant subsidies for the two OVEC coal plants, one of which is not even in Ohio, we have been paying for it to the tune of about $445,000 a day. It's $460,000,000 to date that Ohio consumers have subsidized these inefficient, uneconomical coal plants that run twenty four seven. However, there is some some promising, legislation that has been introduced in both chambers of the general assembly. So house bill 15 and senate bill two, are both looking to overhaul Ohio's energy, regulatory, industry. And, they both have, provisions that would repeal the remaining OVAC subsidies. It's looking like there may be a vote on those bills in the coming weeks.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:22:32]:
So there's hope that perhaps Ohio consumers will be, will no longer be subsidizing these two coal plants. If those bills don't pass and the subsidies are not repealed, Ohio consumers will be paying for them until 2030.
Carol Ventresca [00:22:50]:
Okay.
Carol Ventresca [00:22:51]:
And and even if it's repealed, it's not going to go back and provide consumers their funds back.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:23:01]:
As of now, we don't know. For people who are interested in learn learning more about house bill six and everything that happened in this scandal, there's an HBO documentary that was released this, in April of this year, and, it's called Dark Money. And the first episode is all about, householders' involvement in the scandal.
Carol Ventresca [00:23:22]:
I've heard it's good. I don't have HBO. I'm hoping we could find it someplace else.
Carol Ventresca [00:23:28]:
Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [00:23:29]:
Going on to another issue that many are concerned about, Ohio is becoming, sort of a home for made up many data centers, which use an amazing amount of electricity and water. And local communities are concerned what's going to happen to their supply for individuals if these massive data centers are in need of all of that, those utilities. Has the council been able to provide input regarding this issue, and what should we as consumers watch for?
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:24:04]:
Great question. Yes. It is true that these, data centers and cryptocurrency mining facilities are massive energy consumers. And, there's actually a case that's ongoing at the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio that OCC is involved in. And, we are working to ensure that everyday Ohioans do not bear the costs that are required to meet this unprecedented demand. We are calling for the tech giants who are operating these facilities and driving the demand for upgrades to cover the costs, not Ohio's residential consumer. So that is what we would like to see. We believe business growth is essential for Ohio, but residential utility consumers should not have to subsidize the utilities investment that's needed in order to serve the large tech customers.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:24:57]:
So right now, there's two proposed settlements, in this case. We are supporting one settlement along with AEP, Walmart, the Ohio Energy Group, Ohio Partners for Affordable Energy, and the PUCO staff has signed on to the settlement as well. It would provide strong consumer protections to ensure that data centers bear the full cost of service, and it would protect utility consumers from bearing the cost of serving power hungry data centers. So the the PUCO commissioners will ultimately be, deciding on the settlement, but we're we're hoping for a favorable outcome for Ohio consumers that would not require them to subsidize the upgrades that are needed for our electrical grid to be able to deliver power to these massive energy consumers. There's, a consumer alert on our website about this data center case, and it leads to the the Public Utilities Commission's docket, where if anyone wants to express their concern and write a public comment, they can send it by mail or submit it online. It will be filed into the PUCO's docket, and and that's, you know, taken into consideration when a decision is made.
Carol Ventresca [00:26:08]:
You know, and that's an important piece too. Individuals who are concerned about utilities don't just sit at home and complain. There are ways that you can make your concerns known, and so reach out to the agencies that are involved in in the process and make sure that they know you're a senior on a fixed income, you can't afford more taxes. Private companies coming in and already getting tax abatements shouldn't also make profits off the back of individuals who cannot afford their own utilities, let alone for these huge data centers. So good point. Good point.
Carol Ventresca [00:26:51]:
Our talk about the, the the increase is timely, because this came to mind too, and I knew we were gonna cover it here, is that, you know, with any increase, there's a potential of scammers. And, you know, it's like, hey. It's gonna go up, and we can help you reduce that sort of thing. So, I mean, what should consumers do about securing their accounts and finding the best deals for utilities? Because it's gonna come up. You know, that $27 a month increase is a lot for a lot of people, and they're gonna they're gonna try to find ways, and that's an opportunity for scammers to come in. What can we do to at least prepare ourselves for that barrage? I'm sure it's coming.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:27:30]:
Yeah. Great question. And this is something I I really like to speak about because the more people that know about how to protect themselves, their money, and their personal information, the better. So something we haven't touched upon, but I think it's so important in the context of utilities, are these in person energy marketers who may approach you at your front door or, in Walmart or Kroger, and they say that they can save you money on your energy bill if you switch to their company. Most often, these marketers do not show the consumer a contract. They're not upfront about the cost of energy. They may show a great introductory rate that is actually lower than your utility's default rate, but then they don't show you what that price is gonna jump to once the three month introductory period is over. And once that period is over, there may be a high early termination fee to get out of the contract.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:28:24]:
So what I've seen is many Ohioans get stuck in these contracts, and I have seen bills, recently was in Cincinnati and saw a bill electric bill for a two bedroom, 900 square foot apartment that was over a thousand dollars, up from a average of a hundred 50 all the way to a thousand dollars. And I checked the bill and saw that they had contracted with a supplier and were paying an exorbitant price for electricity, and and they were unable to get out of the contract without a $500 early termination fee. So the the best thing I recommend is just to to walk away from these people if they're at your front door, say you're not interested and close the door. Something else you can do is call your utility company and ask to be put on a do not contact list. That will stop the calls and the letters you get in the mail from energy marketers.
Carol Ventresca [00:29:13]:
So you can go through Utility
Carol Ventresca [00:29:16]:
I I actually done that.
Carol Ventresca [00:29:18]:
I did not know
Carol Ventresca [00:29:18]:
that. Because I was scammed, and they switched my electric supplier from AEP. And we're really we never could figure out how because another way that scammers do this is they call you on the phone and somehow keep asking you questions until you say the word yes, and they take that as, an okay to switch you. I I usually don't answer those calls, so we weren't really sure how it happened. But I got switched and my electric bill shot up, and I was able to get off of that, move over to AEP, and they put a it's a note on my account that I didn't wanna be contacted and I didn't wanna change. Yep. Interesting.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:30:03]:
Yeah. So that's a a good way people can safeguard their information. However, it will not stop the marketers in grocery stores who, you know, are not checking the list before they approach you. Something else to keep in mind is your utility bill account number should be treated like a Social Security or Medicare number. It needs to remain confidential. There's a practice called slamming where a scammer, if they have your full name, your address, and your account number, they can switch your service without your consent. So some of these marketers will say, well, let me see your bill, and I can tell you how much I can save you each month. Well, they may just be looking for those three pieces of information and then go and and switch your service because they get paid when someone switches.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:30:48]:
So it's really important to keep that bill confidential. And then just another reminder for people check your bill every month to make sure that you're not seeing a sudden, you know, skyrocket in pricing because maybe you got switched without you knowing.
Carol Ventresca [00:31:01]:
Especially, if you're on the automatic pay Mhmm.
Carol Ventresca [00:31:04]:
Out
Carol Ventresca [00:31:04]:
of your bank, you really need to watch and and make sure
Carol Ventresca [00:31:08]:
Mhmm.
Carol Ventresca [00:31:08]:
Because you'll see it pretty pretty quickly. Right. I mean, they're not gonna do it illegally or scam you if they were intending to not make money. So they're they're looking to make more money. Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [00:31:20]:
Yeah. That's sad that it's that easy to change. You would think there would have been some maybe you guys have been working on it too, just at some kind of legislation of a, a stop. It has to have one more step.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:31:30]:
Right.
Carol Ventresca [00:31:30]:
You know, one more step to get this changed. Wet, a wet signature or something.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:31:36]:
Yeah. There there are regulations around, author ways to authorize a contract switch. But when you have scammers
Carol Ventresca [00:31:43]:
Yeah.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:31:43]:
Who may be using your information nefariously, then
Carol Ventresca [00:31:47]:
Right.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:31:47]:
Even with these regulations in place, it may not work.
Carol Ventresca [00:31:50]:
Right.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:31:51]:
Yeah. And if people have had a bad experience with a in person marketer, it's best to call the Public Utilities Commission. They have a +1 800 number. Submit a complaint because there are cases against these marketers where they're then forbidden for doing from doing business in Ohio.
Carol Ventresca [00:32:06]:
And and it really is another, reason to not pick up your phone if you can't identify who's calling you. Absolutely. Because goodness knows who's at the other end of
Carol Ventresca [00:32:16]:
the line. Or will you answer the door and say, not interested and close the door. Oh, alright. Yeah. You think you're gonna get a deal, but you're not. Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [00:32:22]:
Oh, no. Yeah.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:32:23]:
Right. And I think marketers and, scammers use these opportunities where there's a jump in supply prices to try to convince people that they can save them money. The other thing that scammers have been known to do is, do utility impostering so that they can call and say, I'm with AEP Ohio. We're gonna shut your power off due to nonpayment unless you pay us a thousand dollars right now. And, unfortunately, people fall for this scam and, you know, the the scammers are pretty savvy. They have, an employee ID number. They may transfer you to a payment center. And it's just enough believable information that people fall for the scam and hand over a chunk of money to them, which they can never get back.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:33:10]:
Thing that's important to know is a utility company cannot shut your power off without advanced notice. So you'll never just get a call without having first received something in the mail or a notice on your bill that, you're in threat of disconnection.
Carol Ventresca [00:33:24]:
Part of the, situation that I had was really strange because when I got the information from this new company, it came in an envelope that looked like it was an AEP envelope on letterhead that looked like it was AEP letterhead. It had, like, both logos on it, that kind of thing. Had I not read through that and realized it wasn't really AEP, I would never have known something was going on until my bills started skyrocketing. So yeah, it's it's crazy. So, Kathryn, there's another situation you and I talked about called submetering, which is not illegal. I'm I have submetered gas right now, but what I've kind of found out through a relative who is lives close but is not submetered is that cost of the submetering could literally triple the cost of your utility. So my small condo, I'm paying twice what she's paying on her very large house. So submetering is an issue, and there's really not too much that can be done.
Carol Ventresca [00:34:35]:
Like, I live in a condominium community, was already contracted before I moved there, and had no clue that this was an issue. Tell us more about submetering.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:34:47]:
Sure. Good question. So submetering is when a landlord or third party purchases the utility service, from the utility company, and then they resell that service to consumers using a submeter. And a submeter is installed, and it records the usage of each house. It's usually in apartments or mobile home lots or condominiums. And then consumers are billed by the submetering company rather than the local utility company. And submetering companies can earn a profit because they're able to charge various fees that utility companies cannot. So a lot of consumers may be paying more for submetered service than if they just had the standard utility service.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:35:29]:
Currently in Ohio, submetering companies are not regulated in the same way that investor owned utility companies are. And therefore, they lack certain protections that utility comp customers have, such as disconnection protections, the ability to utilize bill payment assistance programs, as well as energy choice, being able to shop for a supplier if they can find a cheaper rate on the open market. OCC has long advocated for greater protections for submeter customers. Most recently, we've tried to prevent a local Columbus apartment complex from getting submetered by a large submetering company, but we were not able to, succeed in that case. So our our last hope is with the the general assembly, with the legislators, that they will introduce legislation that would regulate submetering, so that customers can have certain rights and protections offered to them.
Carol Ventresca [00:36:26]:
Well, on the forefront of today's headlines are federal and state budget cuts. Does the council expect to be affected by the cuts? And if so, what can consumers do to support the work of the council?
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:36:37]:
Thanks for that question. Thank thankfully, at at this time, the OCC's funding has not been threatened. However, some of the programs that we, educate consumers about, we're unsure what the future of those programs are. I mentioned the federally funded LIHEAP program earlier, and, there's there was a a 10 person staff in the Department of Health and Human Services that administered that program at the federal level. In early April, that entire 10 person staff was laid off. As of now, we don't know the fate of the remaining 10% of this year's, LIHEAP funding that had not yet been administered to the states. And we don't know the future of that block grant, and if it will be available in future years. So while I think our office at this point in time has not received any threat to our funding, we are concerned about the future of utility assistance money that's, administered from the federal level.
Carol Ventresca [00:37:40]:
Kathryn, as I said at the beginning of this podcast, we were all going to learn something new. And you've given us more than just one thing, needless to say. So thank you for your time and and being with us and educating Brett and I as well as our audience. We always ask our guests if they have any last words of wisdom, any other services that you wanna talk about, programs you wanna talk about? But also, what should we do as consumers of utilities?
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:38:13]:
Yeah. Well, I think it's important to be a a well informed consumer of your gas and electric. You know, in most cases, it's unavoidable being a utility customer. We need to heat and power our homes. And while it is complicated to read your monthly bill, it's really essential to make sure you're not paying for services that you never signed up for, to make sure that, you know, you're consuming a reasonable amount of energy and something's not askew in your house. And I'd also recommend people visit our website if they're able or come see us at a at an event, a resource fair, or a presentation. We're always happy to speak to consumers and share information. And one more thing I'd like to mention is, you know, we've talked about energy supply and and prices increasing in June for some consumers.
Kathryn Metz, Senior Outreach & Education Specialist, Office of the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel [00:39:07]:
A lot of communities have local aggregation programs, and many Ohioans are receiving letters in the mail, in the spring and early summer about a new rate on their aggregation program. And we're seeing those rates, tend to be higher than what they've been before because of the volatility of the energy market right now. But that local aggregation program, you have the the option to to do nothing and you'll automatically be put in the program, or you can call and opt out of it. But that the that affects the supply portion of your bill, and it's a a way to, potentially save money by being part of this local program.
Carol Ventresca [00:39:49]:
And and I just wanna remind the audience too that, Kathryn is going to help me to make sure that we have all of the resources we've talked about today on our resources sheet, which will be included on our website and the show notes.
Carol Ventresca [00:40:02]:
Alright. Thank you. Yeah. Well, many thanks to our expert guest, Kathryn Metz. She's a senior outreach and education specialist at the Ohio Ohio Consumers Council. And thanks for joining us today. You know, listeners, thank you for joining us. You're gonna find the contact information and resources we discussed in the podcast show notes and on our website at lookingforwardourway.com.
Carol Ventresca [00:40:23]:
And we are looking forward to hearing your feedback on this or any of our other podcast episodes.