#396: From Trauma to Transcendence: Alpha Training, Elite Creativity Gains, and Reversing Aging — With Dr. James Hardt

Welcome to Longevity. I'm your host, Natalie Nidham. I'm a nutritionist, a human potential, an epigenetic coach, and I created this podcast to bring you the latest ways to take control of your health and longevity. We cover it all. From new technology and ancestral health practices to personalized interventions and a very special interest of mine, peptides and bioregulators. Enjoy the show. Hey folks, welcome back. I'm Natalie Nidham, your host.

Today's guest, Dr. James Hart, has spent more than four decades mapping how brainwaves shape our emotions, identity, and performance. He is the founder of BioCybernaut, the intensive neurofeedback program often compared to having your own personal Zen master. I went through his program for a full week last November. It was absolutely transformative. Now, in this episode, we explore how alpha brainwaves help clear emotional trauma, boost creativity, IQ and EQ, and even influence longevity.

James breaks down what really happens in the chamber, why trauma blocks so much of our potential, and how targeted neurofeedback can rewire the patterns running your life. It's deep, practical, and surprisingly transformative. Now you guys, if you've been listening to this podcast, you might know, but for anybody new that I've created an amazing holiday gift guide for listeners so that you can get the best holiday deals on biohacking tools, supplements, and more. So if you're still shopping,

you're going to want to check this out. There are gifts in different price ranges and once a year price drops on your dream biohacks. So to get your hands on the gift guide, go to natnidham.com forward slash. gift guide for my list of holiday deals and gift ideas. Every winter, I tell myself this will be the year I don't get knocked down by every cold that floats through the air. And I've learned my lesson.

But here's the thing. Many people wait until we're already sick to do something about it. And that's like showing up to a marathon without having done the training. Tromune from Troscriptions is what I've been using to train my defenses. It's a small lozenge called a trochee that dissolves in your cheek before bed.

Inside is 75 milligrams of cordycephine, a compound that supports your immune system and helps you get the kind of deep sleep where your body actually restores itself. It's actually quite magical. No laundry list of ingredients, no immune cocktail, just one clinically backed molecule, precisely dosed and designed to absorb directly into your bloodstream through your cheek, where it can actually do its job.

So instead of playing catch up this winter, start building your shield now. Head to troscriptions.com and use code NAT10 and get 10% off your first order of Tromune. Have you ever noticed how your body says I'm tired but your brain's like let's lay here and overanalyze everything you've ever said to anyone? You do everything right, dim the lights, no screens, chamomile tea, but your brain is still wired. And this is where TrankDart comes in, a multi-pathway sleep support from Wizard Sciences.

This is not a knockout pill. It's a gentle nudge toward that wind-down zone. I take it about 30 minutes before bed, and it actually helps my body and my brain sync up for sleep. It's layered support, glycine to help cool your body temperature, GABA to press the brain's brake pedal. valerian root for that herbal calm, and 5-HTP to help serotonin flow into melatonin. Even your gut gets some love with inulin and blue spirulina. If your brain's been ignoring bedtime lately...

Check out TrankDart at wizardsciences.com and use code NAT15 for 15% off. I've been using it for a few nights and I am loving it. Dr. James Hart, I finally get to welcome you to the podcast. Thank you so much for taking time out of your very busy schedule to share this information with us. I'm so happy to join you, Natalie. Yes. Well, it's a pleasure. Let's just dive into the meat of this. You have spent decades pioneering neurofeedback as a tool for improving mental and physical health.

Can you take us back to the moment when you realized that the brain was the key to unlocking human potential? People might say, of course it's the brain, but what is it about the brain that we need to do to unlock human potential? Well, that's a wonderful question. And I have to give you a discursive answer. For example, in Buddhism, there are over 150 attainment levels.

which are major states of consciousness. Some are big steps and some are smaller steps. And so you're asking me, you know, what was the moment? And I have to say that it's been a continuing series of evolutions and understanding to come to the point now where I can say.

Like teenagers will say, mutant ninja turtles rule, or I say, brainwaves rule. Okay? Yeah. Now, the scientific way to say that is... any experience that you have as a living human being, you can have that experience only when you have the appropriate underlying pattern of brainwaves.

And when you change your brainwaves by any means, I mean, it used to be drug, sex, and rock and roll, right? That was how you change your brainwaves or meditation or brainwave feedback. However you change your brainwaves, you change your experiences. You change your brainwaves enough and you change your identity. So a high anxiety neurotic becomes a perfectly normal person. A person lost in apathy becomes a dynamic go-getter.

by changing their brainwaves. And so brainwaves rule. And it is an unfolding story. I'm continuing to learn more about how this works. But was there a point, was there any eureka moment when you said neurofeedback, this is the way we're going to get there? Well, I can share your eureka moments along the way. Okay.

Perfect. I'll settle for a few. The way it started was I was a senior at Carnegie Institute of Technology majoring in physics. It was a fall semester of my senior year. And I came on to the student union. And there was a big hand-painted sign where every letter was a slightly different color. And it said, Dr. Joe Camilla will talk on brainwaves and consciousness.

And it gave it time that was, oh, that's just 10 minutes away. Margaret Morrison College, right across the tennis courts. I didn't have a course that hour. And so I went. And, you know, it was mostly painting and design students. The ones who made the signs, Joe was visiting, Joe Camillo was visiting their teacher. And they didn't understand. There were questions like about alpha rays. Things like that. They didn't know alpha brainwaves from alpha particles.

But he and I, what I realized was, because I had a friend at Duquesne University where they were studying phenomenology or the science of consciousness. And I was reading Father... Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's book, The Phenomenon of Man. And it was all wonderful stuff. But how do you measure it? All of a sudden, here was a way to measure it. Brain waves were related to meditation. Samadhi and Satori had high alpha. Beginning meditators often had very little alpha.

So I was very excited. That was kind of a breakthrough. So every spare hour of that senior year, I spent the library reading the long history of brainwaves. And in the spring, when I graduated, I jumped on my Triumph motorcycle, rode up into Canada, across the continent, and down I-5, got off at San Francisco, and showed up in Joe Camilla's lab. He and I had been riding together.

And I volunteered as a research subject. Very primitive. One electrode, middle of the back of the head, one speaker, one score, controlled by this gigantic digital equipment corp. mini computer that filled an entire room. And it was the most fascinating thing I'd ever done in my life. I went back the next day for more and the next day for more. And on the fourth day I went back, but they weren't doing any studies.

But I'd gotten to know Dr. Kamiya's girlfriend, Joanne Gardner, and went to her office and said, Joanne, would you please take me downstairs, put a couple electrodes on me? put me in the chamber so I can play. Oh yeah, sure. So she did. Then she went upstairs after turning on the equipment, got involved in her work and forgot I was there. Later, lunchtime came, and she went out to lunch with nine other members of the lab for a 12-course Chinese lunch. And in course 11, she goes,

oh my God, somebody's in the chamber. And so they all raced out of the restaurant, roared across town, ran up to the building, ripped open the door. And I was like three feet off the ground. For three days when I walked, my feet didn't touch the ground. I'd had out-of-body experience, ego disintegration. I was contacting just corporate beings flying around the universe. And this was a lot.

For I had been raised as a Protestant fundamentalist and I was a physics major. What's all this like out-of-body stuff? So I realized that... Somehow this is going to be a part of my life. So summer's over. I ride back across the country, show up at Carnegie Mellon, and they gave me a full scholarship, $2,200 a month to live on. And I'm in a PhD program for psychology because I figure I...

I need to get somebody to stamp my rational mind with a seal of approval because I was going to be dealing with weird stuff. And so since I registered, I go. And all I wanted to do is tell people about this phenomenal experience. And so... And right up above campus in a big home built by the robber barons of that era of Pittsburgh lived one of the professors from Duquesne, Rolf von Eckertsburg.

He'd been a grad student under Timothy Leary at Harvard. He'd taken tons of LSD. He was like a very turned on guy. And I go, if anybody knows what happened to me, it'll be Rolf. I'm going to go see Rolf. So I walk in. And he looks at me and he's like shocked. And he goes, sit down. And he takes his arm, he sweeps everything off his desk. He goes, what has happened to you? And so I start talking.

telling him about this. Midway through a three-hour disclosure, his neighbor lady comes in, listens attentively, leaves, comes back, brings a book, sets it down on my side. It was the autobiography of a yogi. Two weeks earlier, I would have dismissed it. It became a roadmap of much of my spiritual journey. And at the end of the talk, Raul folded his hands and he said, we can do this here.

And in that instant, this is a defining moment. In that instant, I was downloaded, not with a job, not with a career, not with a profession, but with a vocation. Because there's a soundproof chamber in the psych department I've just registered. There's a big pile of junky old electronic equipment. And with my physics knowledge, I can cobble together a brainwave training center. And so I did.

And then I started training, doing research. I did 20 college students. It was my first study. 10 high anxiety, 10 low anxiety. So that was another defining moment. Rolf said, we can do that here. Love it. Love it. That's a great answer. I want to get back to the nuts and bolts of neurofeedback in a minute. But when you first introduce neurofeedback as more of a mainstream tool, What was the biggest...

pushback that you got and how did you overcome there was obstacles right from the beginning uh my psych department had behaviors they were rat runners they didn't believe in experience they thought it was an epiphenomenon the only thing that's real is behavior and so they I wanted to do this study, brain life. So they referred me to Dr. Terrence W. Barrett, who is a postdoc. He's a one year, first year out of grad school. And...

He had the electrophysiological lab, and they said, you need to talk to him to get permission to use equipment. So I go in and I babble happily about brainwaves and consciousness and yogis and satori and samadhi, and he just listens. Two hours later, I get a letter in my mailbox, copies to the chairman.

Permission to use the electrophysiological laboratory equipment denied. Nobody who's interested in consciousness could possibly be serious about getting a PhD in psychology. But if you will submit yourself to me... I will design a program that will lead to a PhD in physiological psychology. Sincerely, Terence W. Barrett. That's a little bit of pushback. Well, fortunately, the chairman was on sabbatical.

And the acting chairman was Dr. Richard Hayes, who is a Piagetian psychologist studying development of intelligence in children. And so he looked at it. He took the letter to him. He rolled his eyes. and permission was suddenly granted. Next year, Terence was not there. His contract was canceled. But that earned the enmity of the other tenured physiological psychology professors. And so...

One of the breakthroughs I had was, because they didn't believe experience was measurable, you know what a visual afterimage is, right? If you stare at the sun for a moment, close your eyes, you'll see bright light that will fade over time. Well, it turns out that if you look at a bright light, for real, your alpha waves drop.

measurable, it's science. And so I found a study where people were measuring brainwaves and looking at visual afterimages, closing their eyes. And when they reported that the afterimage faded, which is a purely subjective experience. the alpha waves increased. And so it's, I gotcha, okay? We can measure experience. And so, I mean, there was lots of pushback.

Of course, this would be a good time to give the audience a little bit of a few definitions so that as we continue on this conversation, they're kind of anchored in some terminology. And I think maybe the first thing. There will be lots of people who know the answer to this question, but many people don't know what neurofeedback is. Okay. So could you maybe, you know, briefly explain to the audience?

What is neurofeedback? What are we doing when we're practicing neurofeedback? Okay, well, we'll start at the beginning. Feedback. If you step on a scale and then... Meter goes up or the numbers fly. You're getting feedback about your weight.

If you put a thermometer in your mouth and take your temperature, you're getting feedback about your temperature. Well, you can also do that in real time. You can take a little thermistor and put it on your finger, and it'll record the temperature and flash a light. of the temperature and if you do like relaxing or autogenic phrases like my hands are heavy and warm your blood flow to the hand will increase temperature will go up

If you think of something scary or makes you anxious, you have vasoconstriction, the temperature will go down. It gives you real-time feedback on processes in your body. Well, neurofeedback is feedback on... the activity, the electrical activity of the brain. Now, brain waves are very tiny signals. And I blink.

produces signals 10 to 50 times bigger than the biggest brain waves. That gives you an idea how small they are. And they come in a spectrum, like a rainbow of colors. If you take a prism... and you pass sunlight through it, it breaks it down into the spectrum. The slowest frequency is red, and then you go orange, yellow, green, teal, blue, indigo, violet, which is the fastest frequency.

Well, we have the electronic equivalent of a prism, little silicon chips and microprocessors. And so we put in not a... a shaft of sunlight, but a channel of brain waves. We amplify them about 100,000 times from the way they come off the head to be big enough for the computer to read them. And then it breaks it down into the spectrum. The slowest frequency are delta.

like the red light. And then as the frequencies increase, you have theta, you have Schumann, you have alpha, you have beta, and you have gamma. And the totality is within about 100 hertz. Now, when we're talking about cell phones, we're talking about megahertz and gigahertz signals. So brainwaves are very slow compared to that, which to a certain extent makes them hard to work with.

especially the really slow ones like Delta. Now, Alpha's not the fastest, it's not the slowest. And the reason it was called Alpha is because it's typically the biggest. And in 1908... when the Austrian psychiatrist, Herr Dr. Dr. Hans Berger, went looking, consciously looking for electrical activity in the brain.

The first one he found was alpha because it was the biggest and the easiest to detect with his very primitive equipment. And so he kept it a secret for 10 years, thinking it was related to ESP, which it is. couldn't be determined with his primitive equipment. And then he published 1918. I've actually read his original paper in German, with the help of a German-English dictionary, because there are a lot of big scientific German words in there.

But then it spread rapidly all over the world. Every major hospital, every university wanted to have equipment to record brainwaves. And a whole science developed around that, psychophysics, for example. But in 1962, a Japanese-American named Joe Kamiya, working at the University of California, San Francisco,

accidentally discovered that when he would give people feedback about the occurrence of alpha that they would make more. Like he was a sleep researcher and he'd have somebody, a student, lying on a cot. right next to the polygraph machine, trying to fall asleep. And he's running the polygraph. And if he would see a big alpha wave burst, he'd go, wow, there's a big alpha wave. And it would almost always be followed by another one.

And he got maybe my telling somebody that they just had an alpha bird is somehow giving them what we now call neurofeedback. At the time it was called brainwave feedback. And so he made it electronic so that there'd be a little. a bell that would come on or a sound that would come on when an alpha and the people began doing it. Now, when I came into the field, 90% of all the published studies were failing.

to show increases with feedback above your initialized closed resting baseline. And so my analysis, because I was getting positive results. 90% of the others were failing to train alpha. And what I realized was that they were using bad equipment, bad methodology, like some were trying to train people with their eyes open.

Or some were trying to train people lying down or semi reclined, which promotes drowsiness to do alpha. I mean, you don't do meditation lying down. You know, Yogananda said, if you for best posture for meditation is imagine you have a hook at the top of your head. And you're being hung from that. So your spine is like perfectly straight. And so then many other technical details. But the fact is.

I kind of set the field on a new direction with a paper entitled Conflicting Results in EEG Alpha Feedback, Why Integrated Amplitude Should Replace Percent Time as the method of doing neurofeedback. And so if you do it right, you're likely to get results. This essentially involves having electrodes placed on your head in strategic positions that will measure your brain waves. They're feeding that information into usually a computer of some kind. That computer is measuring the brain waves.

giving you feedback about what's happening. And in a program like, for example, BioCybernaut, we're then given direction as to how we might generate the waves that we're after.

And so you mentioned a prism or a range of waves. I think before we dive into the rest of the podcast, I think it would be helpful for people to understand, at least with... well delta waves a lot of people have heard about because of sleep that's usually your deep sleep wave then there's alpha i there's theta beta gamma maybe you just want to very quickly touch on those oh sure and maybe we'll spend a couple extra minutes on alpha explaining to people why this is the

This is really where the work begins in neurofeedback. It's not necessarily where it ends, but this is where it begins. Beautiful. Oh, what a profound series of questions. Okay, so delta is zero to four cycles per second. It is seen in stages three and four of sleep. Now, there is a low range of delta below half a hertz that's unique and is sometimes called epsilon.

Very hard to work with because of the low frequency. But at one point, I was doing some Epsilon feedback here at Cybernaught in Sedona. And I went into this vast space of consciousness. And when I was finished, I was guided to call Her Holiness Satya Saima Lakshmi Devi. Who did the training a few years ago here?

And she and I became good friends. So I called her up, and she looked through the phone. She saw my energy. She said, woo, you've been traveling. What was it like? And I said, oh, Sai Ma, the emptiness. And we just laughed and laughed and laughed. Okay, so that's epsilon. Now, delta is also associated with kundalini.

And so any kundalini awakening is going to involve delta. Now, but it's also, there's medical things here. Delta is produced by, and theta are produced by rapidly growing brain tumors. One time I had a guy in training who was a database programmer working for a small company, and he was so good that IBM was buying out his company in order to acquire his contract. So when he walked in, he had some delta in his right frontal.

During the training on day five of the seven days, he had a minor kundalini experience where he felt the energy come up, he was all above, and the delta increased. Now, by a prior arrangement, The QEEG people had done a scan of his brain and his nine-year-old son's brain, who trained with him, before they started the training and at the end, and they made a CD.

They sent it off to their analysis group in Texas. Three days later, I get a worried call from an MD saying, you've got to contact that trainee because he has an aggressive, rapidly growing brain tumor. Because the Delta had increased a lot. in the seven days

They didn't understand Kundalini. I didn't try to explain it to the MD. But I called the guy. He was, you know, equanimous about it. He'd just done his alpha training. He was unflappable, couldn't ruffle his feathers. He went and got an MRI the next day and everything was fine. There was no rapidly growing brain tumor. But do we have to deal with that? Sometimes I tell people who do delta or theta trainings, don't tell your neurologist about this because they'll be freaked out.

In fact, if I may go sideways with another story. I recorded in 1988 the first example of Kundalini. If you like later, I can get into the story. It's a fascinating story. But I showed this at one of Rob Call's winter brain conferences. After which Gary Schwartz, very famous psychologist from Harvard and I think Yale, came up to me, whispered in my ear, and he said, when I was at Harvard, I had a student come up to me.

And he insisted that I measure his brain waves. He was practicing kundalini yoga. Well, Gary Schwartz knew enough about him. electrodes and polygraphs. So he took the kid down to the neurology department, put some electrodes on him, recorded his brainwaves, and came up with a record. He said very similar to what I was just showing the group at the Winter Brain Conference.

And Gary knew enough EEG to be freaked out about this because waking Delta, what's going on? So he took the big hunk of polygraph paper to a colleague in the neurology department at Harvard. And the professor freaked out and went, oh, my God.

Don't let him ever do that on this campus again. But could I keep the record? Because I want to share it with a couple of colleagues. And then Gary said he promptly lost the big hunk of polygraph paper, which Gary said is what science often does with anomalous. data. Mmm.

So there's some stories about Delta. We do Delta trainings, but they are by invitation only after people have done Alpha and Theta trainings, because Delta confers powers like Obi-Wan Kenobi, and we want to make sure people have done... enough forgiveness work and ethical cleansing because we don't want to create any Darth Vaders. Right. Okay. There's enough of those in the world. Enough. Then Theta is 47 and Theta waves characterize

the stage one and stage two of sleep. And they also give you access to the Akashic records. So when you go into theta, you can access the unlimited database of all knowledge that was, is, and ever will be. Now, at one point, Michael Ray was a professor at Stanford. I had a... training center near Stanford University. I was partnering with Foster Gamble, where it was called Mind Center. And Michael Ray came over and gave talks, and he'd written a book called Creativity in Business.

And he had interviewed many of the titans of industry in the large companies of Silicon Valley. And what he found was that... They had gotten in trouble as kids in school for trancing out in theta and staring thoughtlessly and wordlessly out the window. But of course, with the ability to go into theta, they could bring in information not known to any human in their historical time period. which would put them in a position to be the CEO of some high-tech company.

But Theta is also seen around rapidly growing brain tumors. In fact, before MRIs, it used to be the only non-invasive way to detect such. things. Okay, then we come to epsilon. I'm sorry, we come to the gap between theta and alpha, which is 7 to 8 hertz. We call that Schumann. Now, before the mid-50s, none of the EEG textbooks reported any human brainwaves existing between 7 and 8. That's Mother Earth's frequency.

The Schumann frequency is typically 7.83 hertz. But following the mid-50s, at which point television intruded into most homes, people now show epsilon waves. And we can talk about that later if you want. Above epsilon is alpha, which is eight cycles to 13 cycles. And there's slow, middle, and fast with different high frequency alphas associated with intellectual brilliance.

Low frequency alpha is associated with more deep meditation. Above alpha is beta, which is 13 to 25 cycles per second. And then gamma is 25 cycles up to about 100. Alpha is the...

Certainly in the beginning stages of neurofeedback training, alpha is where we focus our attention. Why? Well, many reasons. Alpha is like brainwave 101. Alpha has a foot in the practical, phenomenal, three-dimensional reality world, and it also has a foot in the mystical, magical, transcendent world. And another reason is that...

Everybody has some alpha all the time. It might be big, it might be little. But, for example, theta is intermittent. If somebody hasn't done alpha training first, which increases their theta also. They could lie in the theta chair. And yes, for theta and delta, you do lie down, whereas alpha, you need to sit up.

You could lie there for two or three or four minutes and no feedback because there doesn't happen to be any theta at the moment. It can be very frustrating, especially if you try to start there. And so there's always some alpha. And if it's little, we can amplify it more. We can turn up the volume. And so you can get started. But we should also note that alpha takes you quite a long way.

Both samadhi, the superconscious state in yoga, and satori, the superconscious state in Zen, are characterized by super high alpha all over the head. In fact, on my first trip to India, one of the yogis I worked with, when he walked into the room, it was like the sun had come up. He had this beatific radiance. He just wanted to be near him. He only spoke Hindi. Everything was translated. My ticket to India was I had just built the world's first.

microcomputerized brainwave feedback and analyzer system. So he's asking questions. Well, what is this? And I'm saying, well, it's the world's first microprocessor-based brainwave feedback and analyzer system. What's a microprocessor? I go, well, it's like a little brain. Can I see it? Well.

It was wire wrapped. It was fragile. I'd hand built it. But I had spares in memory foam. And I bring out one of the 40-pin chip Motorola 6800. He's like petting it. Oh, nice brain, nice brain. So we wire them up. and start recording as he's meditating. He has high alpha. The next two minutes, the printer runs, and he's got higher alpha. Next two minutes, higher alpha. Next minute, higher alpha. Next two minutes, higher alpha. Well...

As you personally know, even if you're on an uptrend, you don't go like this. You go... Up and down. He never went down. Mathematicians call this a monotonic increase. And after about an hour, he opened his eyes. Alpha is like huge. He opens his eyes. There's a flash of light comes out. He speaks something in Hindi. It's translated. He said, well, I'd like to go on, but the light is getting so bright. If I go any further, I won't be able to come back and tell you about it.

He could have gone right out into a Maha Samadhi. And I was very grateful because I would have had trouble explaining a dead body to the Indian police, especially with my wires connected to my equipment, plugged into a transformer, plugged into the 400-volt power. that they use in India. So yeah, alpha can take you all the way out of God. Out of body, literally. Yeah, samadhi.

If people have heard of neurofeedback, they think about it as a way to improve focus, maybe reduce their stress, but there's clearly a lot more potential. That is... I don't believe that those things were particularly mentioned during the neurofeedback training I did with you. That was not the goal. Can you walk us through some of the advanced concepts behind brainwave optimization and how it impacts our daily lives?

Sure. Well, in physical fitness, people go for three things, strength, flexibility, and endurance. And in mind fitness, you go for three things. Strength, flexibility, and endurance. So strength is bigger power. Flexibility is the ability to turn alpha off or on. You want to have control of this. And endurance is to be able to sustain. Birds come in flocks, lions come in prides, and alpha waves come in spindles.

A spindle is a group of alpha waves traveling through time together. And the spindles can be short, like they're 10 per second, typically. 8 to 13 is the frequency range. So you can have 8 to 13 cycles per second. And there can be some spindles that are less than a half a second long. In advanced meditators, they can be 5, 10.

I've even seen 20 seconds long in advanced Zen meditators. Now, after 20 seconds, there'll be a distraction. They'll lose it. They'll fall out of state for maybe a second, and then they'll get right back in. So strength, flexibility, and endurance. Now, how you do neurofeedback training makes a big difference. For example, there's distributed practice and mass practice. We do seven consecutive long days. You could not get anywhere near the results if you came in one day a week for seven weeks.

or one day a month for seven months. And one way to think of it, in all spiritual practice, whether it's Zen or yoga or Christian, they recognize the opposition of the devil or the ego or... the distraction. I think of ego as the internal ambassador of the great darkness, or for theological people, the internal ambassador of the devil. And so it's a battle between the force of light and the force of dark. And if you're a general in a battle and you have a big breakthrough...

You don't retire to your camp and feast and party for a week because the enemy will reinforce, you know, dug trenches, put up tank traps and brought in reinforcement. So you have to go every day. as you push back, push back, push back, the ego, which uses doubt, drowsiness, distractibility, and worry, aversion, any form of ill will. boredom and forgetfulness to undermine sabotage and limit your attainment of higher states. And so how you do it really matters. There's also...

things that we patented about the BioCybernaut technology, like tones. The tone comes on to give you feedback. Well, the frequency of the tone matters. There's an ideal range between 4 and 800 hertz, which we've patented for alpha. Higher pitch tones are better for theta and delta. But 4 to 800 hertz tones provide minimum disruption of alpha when the tone comes on.

And so there's a lot of science that doesn't show behind how BioCybernaut does the work. But yes, and for example, we mentioned Kodalini, the delta waves. The first kundalini awakening I ever had, and this is after, you know, five, six years of meditation in the Yogananda tradition, some of the quite disciplined, you know, morning and night for years, I was...

leading a theta training at MindCenter. And there was a spare chamber. And so I got electrodes on and I went in and I was lying there doing theta. while my trainees were also doing their theta training. And this incredible energy came up my spine. It pushed everything that was me, like name, identity, everything, to the far outer edges. It was poured through, and it was massive delta, over 30,000 on a scale where in the first 15 years of doing this work.

only 40% of the people had broken 1,000 with their alpha scores. And I've never seen an alpha score higher than 9,000. In fact, I've never seen a 9,000, but this was 30,000 of Delta. And I was profoundly changed by that. But there's also, and those are trainable. But we also have the ability to train the angel pattern. Yeah. And the angel pattern is alpha, where you have higher central alpha than occipital, and they have to be above a specific threshold. And so...

we have the ability to train that. I remember we had a San Francisco 49er come in for alpha training, and he did not have the angel pattern. But on day five, his central alpha went way up above the required threshold. His occipitals were already high enough. And I can't say when he came out of the chamber that he was white as a sheet because he was a big black guy.

But he was shaken to his core because three angels had shown up different sizes and different colors in his chamber and went, you haven't been living a very good life, which was true. And he went, ah, and he made major changes in his life as a result of that experience. So yeah, that is trainable. Maybe let's change tacks right now and just go back to one of these questions and just say,

You know, for the people who, you know, many of whom are very familiar with basic health optimization techniques, what are some of the more nuanced or lesser known benefits of neural feedback that you feel deserve more attention? So basically... What's the outcome people are looking for, right? Like what can people expect? So if people know about better focus and managing their stress.

What's the outcome of the type of neurofeedback that you do at Biosorb or not that people can expect? Wonderful questions. And there's so many wonderful benefits that I've actually spent decades researching.

and publishing on those results. First of all, there's a 50% increase in creativity. The IQ boost... is almost 12 points and we know that's stable to rising even a year out uh there's a boost of 15.8 points in eq which is emotional intelligence which um Travis Bradbury and Gene Greaves in their book, Emotional Intelligence 2.0, describes as accounting for 58% of your success in life.

EQ is so critical to success that it accounts for 58% of performance in all types of jobs. And, he said, the link. between EQ and earnings is so direct that every one-point increase in EQ adds $1,300 to annual salary, and that is on a global average. So if you're in a first world country, you can expect much more than that. Yeah, and that makes sense, right? Yeah, our EQ enables us to interact more appropriately and more constructively with the people around us.

It's a direct payoff, right? Well, and the emotions are a key thing here because, yes, EQ, you have to read and understand your own emotions, and you have to be able to read and understand others' emotions. What blocks that is emotional trauma. In May of 2007, Drunvlo Melchizedek and his wife Claudette did the Alpha Training at Biosybernot Center in Santa Clara, California.

And at the time, he had over 550 teachers around the world delivering his workshops, like Awakening the Illuminated Heart. And he said to me at the end, he said, Jim, you know, 50%, no, he said 95% of all the people who do his courses do not get the fullness of his teachings. Reason always the same, he said, emotional trauma. And then he added that he never found anything as powerful as the bio-sovereign and alpha training for eliminating emotional trauma. And the way we do that is two steps.

I wrote a computer program that administers published mood scales, measuring anxiety, depression, hostility, you know, things like that. Friendly, clear thinking, sleepy, unhappy, dizzy. I wrote the program in such a way people sit in the chamber with their brainwaves being measured while they're putting their answers in, like friendly, a four, unhappy, a zero, you know, whatever.

And the program calculates the likelihood of each answer's accuracy. And so let's say the word is anger and person puts zero. Not at all. Computer goes, I don't think so. Three sigmas, that means a 95% chance. No, two sigmas, a 95% chance the answer is wrong. Three sigmas at 99.7. So then the trainer would ask the person, You denied anger, but the computer thinks maybe there's something there. What about in your unconscious?

So the person, maybe a tear comes out, lips tremble a little. And then what comes out is a story about some trauma. And there's a perpetrator and that person goes on the forgiveness list. Now, I've done tens of thousands of interviews with people around. this process. And when I began, I didn't know how to do forgiveness. I would suggest things. People would try things. And over the decades, I've collected what turns to be a 14-step method for forgiveness.

I sometimes have Christian fundamentalists say, we're so glad you have a faith-based process of forgiveness. And I go, faith had nothing to do with it. It's there because it works. It helps people get rid of traumas, helps raise their alpha. And it does. And so I would suggest that all the benefits of IQ, creativity, emotional intelligence are directly related to reduction of the emotional traumas.

I've trained over 200 Canadian aboriginals at my former center in BC, Victoria, BC, Canada. And they had PTSD, post-traumatic. worse than many returning war veterans, in part because of the residential schools where Georgina Lightning's film, Older Than America, documented that 50% of the Indian children sent to those schools died there.

Mass graves have been discovered outside some of them. These people were traumatized. After training over 100 of them, I was invited to speak at the United Nations in Geneva about the work. And so the forgiveness works for depression, sadness, and anger. But to get rid of fear, we use a different process. We actually have two. One is a worst-case scenario where you think of something that you're afraid of might happen.

and you catastrophize you imagine it happens and then gets worse and worse you're making it happen and at a certain point you push the pause button and you just freeze it you know the bear is about to eat you or whatever you push the pause button yeah and you just leave it you don't try to fix it you go off and do something that makes alpha like petting puppies kissing babies floating on a surfboard in a blue lagoon whatever floats your

alpha and the alpha will dissolve the fear the way the morning sun dissolves the fog yeah to feel it to heal it and the mood scales the denied items are like point on the sigmas tell the trainer about are pointers to where the traumas are buried. For example, if you and I got a treasure map and there was a seven mile long beach, a hundred yards from the water to the sand dunes, and we know there's a treasure map there.

We could spend years digging and not finding anything. But we have a metal detector. We go up and down the beach. Now we might find a few rusty anchors, but we will find that treasure faster than random digging. So I've developed over the decades tools to detect and to heal the traumas. Everyone is chasing collagen creams. But here's the real plot twist. Your skin cannot make collagen if your cells stop sending the signal.

As we age, that communication line gets fuzzy and your cells get tired and repair slows. Blue peptide spray from Young Goose brings the message back loud and clear. With NAD Plus Apex to refuel energy, methylene blue to recharge your mitochondria, and GHKCU to tell your skin, hey. Start making that collagen again. It's longevity science, not cosmetic hype. Working at the cellular level instead of just layering on top.

So keep your skin talking. Visit younggoose.com. Use code NAT10 to get started. Or if you're already a Young Goose customer, you can use code 5NAT to still save. You've spoken about how different brainwave patterns influence mental and physical health. And everybody's after that, right? Everybody's after performance and that kind of stuff. But how do these mental states, how do you think these mental states tie into longevity?

Really, to improve the aging process. Well, how about reversing it? How about it? Yeah, we can do that. We can actually reverse aging in the brain. And here's how. It turns out that once hardening of the artery sets in, called atherosclerosis, which depending on your diet, your genetics, your lifestyle, can happen as early as your 20s, your alpha frequencies start to slow.

The slowing rate is a tenth of a hertz for every 10 years of life. And when they drop off below eight hertz, you don't have alpha anymore. It's theta or delta, and people enter senescence or senility. and usually die soon thereafter. But we can throw them like a life preserver on a rope, and we can pull them back up into alpha, where they can live. Alpha is life, and the more alpha you have, the more life you have.

I'll give you a couple of studies. There was a hospital admission study done at a large urban hospital in Southern California, where for a six-month period, anyone who was admitted to the hospital was given a routine EEG recording. This could be stabbing, gunshot wound, auto accident, pregnancy, elective surgery. It didn't matter. If you were admitted, you got an EEG. Six months later, they followed up, those people.

50% of those admitted with a non-alpha record were dead six months later. Then there's another fascinating study. I'm privileged to be the student of Dr. Charles L. Yeager, who was a now-vanished breed of scientist called a clinical electroencephalographer. He could look at a 21-channel EEG recording from Polygraph and make accurate psychiatric diagnoses. And he was so good that in the mid-1950s, the state government of California approached him

and requested him to accept a grant. Now, that's not usually how you get a grant. The government doesn't come out. You should have a bravo for one of those. And what they wanted him to do with the money that they were proposing to give him was to buy EEG equipment and put it in the state hospitals all over California. At the peak, they had about 45 of them until Governor Reagan shut them all down. Some were large with hundreds of patients and others had dozens. And so every year,

Dr. Yeager would drive with a team of EEG technicians to each of the hospitals. They would go out into the wards, bring in the patients, put electrodes on, run a polygraph, then bring it to Dr. Yeager, who would sit across the desk from him, and he would flip through the polygraph, look.

at the person, and he would make recommendations for their treatment, maybe change their drugs, maybe change their therapies, or maybe even that they could be released. Now, after he had been doing that for 30 years, I had already won a large federal grant, which I'll mention parenthetically. It was called Anxiety and Aging.

intervention with the EEG Alpha Feedback, a large three-year grant from National Institute of Mental Health. So Dr. Yeager knew I was working with the brainwave training to reverse aging. And so he wanted to share this information with me. So he said, Jim, I want to take you to lunch because I have important information to share with you in your career path that I don't know how to put into a scientific journal.

But I'm sure you will find opportunities to talk about this. And Natalie, this is one of those opportunities. So Dr. Yeager, thanks you for being able to receive and pass on this information. So here's what he said. Every year, he's measuring brainwriters on these people. And he said, if the person was 101 years old, and they still had good strong alpha in their EEG record, he knew they would be alive next year when he came back.

On the other hand, if it was a young person of 27 and their alpha had diminished or was gone, he would say a very special goodbye. He would even hug the person because he knew it was unlikely they would be alive. a year later when he came back. Alpha is life. Absence of alpha is an indicator of imminently impending mortality. The more alpha brainwaves you have, the better and longer life you are going to have.

Okay. Well, that's a vote for Alpha. So given that everybody listening to this won't necessarily be able to make their way to Sedona to BioCybernaut to do their Alpha training. What do you think the most effective tools and techniques to increase alpha are that people have, might be able to access? Nothing will be as effective, let's say, as seven days solid spent in the chamber at BioCybernaut.

But what can people do until they can get there or in the meantime? Beautiful question. Now, I should mention that we are working on a project to train military veterans. which there are tens of millions. There's also government money for this. Every year, the government sets aside $30 billion for treating veterans. And the best... that they've been able to draw down is 12 so there's 18 billion a year so we are planning a 12 chamber system here in sedona where we use cpt codes

Obviously, we work with veterans before we can cure TBI, traumatic brain injury, PTSD. And so that's coming, and the training will be free for them. Just like the 200 Canadian aboriginals, the training was free for them because we had a scholarship sponsor. So what can people do? Well, there are many things that you can do. Now, remember Tony Robbins, who did the training here, said it was one of the most powerful things he'd done in his life, said, if you're not serious.

Don't bother because, as you know, it's work. Oh, yeah. This is not an easy process. So one of the things you can do is to eliminate garlic, onions. and all the members of the onion family, leeks, scallions, shallots, and chives, because these measurably lower your alpha waves. For example, Brahmins in India are forbidden to eat onions and garlic because they're known to promote what's called a rajasic temperament. Rajas is ego activity, willfulness. And so I can make a joke.

about, and it's a European joke, that if you tie an Italian's hands behind his or her back, they can't talk. Because it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like that. But if you take the garlic out of their diet, They're peaceful. They're calm. And so garlic, onions, and their family are inimical to alpha. They sabotage meditative practice, and they sabotage peace of mind, and they promote ego activity, willfulness, agitation of the mind. So cutting those out, well, here's another one, caffeine.

Not just my studies, but there are other studies showing that caffeine suppresses both alpha and delta waves. And so coffee is fine. There's a lot of health benefits to coffee if you take out the caffeine. That's how I drink it. Decaf doesn't do it because by law, if someone takes out 40% of the caffeine, they can call it decaf. Yes, but mine has 80% gone. Oh, that's better.

Absolutely. I drink special coffee. But what about things like, will practicing meditation help, for example, or walking in nature? I mean, I get the... the inputs, but what about practices that people can take on that can be helpful? Well, I highly recommend walking in nature, being in nature. I highly recommend meditation. The problem is feedback, lack of feedback.

Every teacher, every parent knows that when a child needs feedback the most is at the beginning because almost everything they're doing is wrong. Now, if you can persist in Zen, nobody was rated advanced who had less than 21 years of daily practice. When you get to that point, you meditate, you get feedback, you get beautiful images and vision.

and celestial smells and heavenly sounds, angelic choruses. But not in the beginning. Takes a long time to get there. It takes a long time to get there. And if you're one of the lucky few who persists, Well, then, yes, exactly. But I've had, for example, I've actually trained a Zen master who came from Japan. He had 150 students. At the end of his Alpha training, he said in somewhat broken English, he goes,

Why are cyber not better than having owned Zen Master? And I go, Ruho, you're a Zen Master. How can you say that? And he goes, listen, you have Zen Master. Master busy. Have many students. You sit, you meditate, you have attainment. Master busy not notice. Next day or today, master see you, see you different, give you feedback. One eyebrow go up a little.

At BioCybernaut, feedback all the time. And he repeated, BioCybernaut better than having on Zen Master. Wow. Well, that's quite the endorsement. So, okay, so. So let's talk a bit about the subconscious and how big a role it's really playing in health and longevity. I mean, you know, I'm going to keep coming back to health and longevity because that's what people come to this podcast for, right?

How can I live a longer, healthier, more vibrant life? And I think we agree that our consciousness and our mind sit at the center of that ability. both our belief and our ability to move forward in this world and, and be at peace because we know that, you know, on a, on a very basic level, stress is the biggest killer. Yeah. 80%. But some people say causes 80% of all diseases. It also shortens telomeres. Like at a physiological level, it shortens chronic stress, shortens telomeres.

Let's talk about, but, but that subconscious mind where, is that where the ego lives? Like you mentioned ego before and, you know, being on good terms with our ego and having it in its proper place.

Not that we want to destroy ego completely, because I think like stress- Well, you can't. As long as you have a body, you have an ego. It can be big and obtrusive and get on people or subtle and evanescent, rarely in evidence, but as long as you have a body, you have an ego. But ego es nomi amigo. You go noise, me, I'm ego. Okay, good. So what role does subconscious mind play in health and longevity? And how does neurofeedback help to rewire those patterns?

It plays a big role. If you look at the 10% of an iceberg that floats above the surface, there's a lot there in the unconscious. And it regulates, it guides, it blocks, or it facilitates. depending on the programming. And very few techniques other than deep neurofeedback can intervene with that. For example, like forgiveness is a way, matched with the BOSM, not mood scales, to know what to forgive, is a way to excavate the negativity out of the unconscious.

When I was training Ruho Yamada Roshi, the Zen master, he had no idea, never heard of forgiveness. Japan is a shame-based culture. And I said, well, what do you do if you discover something? It comes up from your unconscious. That's troublesome. He said, well, we try to expand our consciousness more so the distraction becomes a smaller percentage. He had no idea you could eliminate these things.

And so with forgiveness, we can eliminate things from the unconscious that are depression, sadness, and anger-based. And with the worst-case scenario, we can eliminate fear-based things.

When you clear out the unconscious, well, I should mention that the mood scales, the biosiminal mood scales, detect both negative things in the unconscious, but they also detect... positive things in the unconscious like loving caring devoted people may have that in them but be totally oblivious of it and so as part of the forgiveness process at the end of a successful forgiveness we ask people to do what we call

love algorithm where you would go i love you natalie i love you natalie i love you natalie and then to take one of the positive denied items like grateful or devoted or loving or kind, and to go, I love you, Natalie. I love you, Natalie. I'm devoted. I love you, Natalie. I love you, Natalie. I'm devoted. So you bring up and you install in your consciousness that positivity that was buried uselessly in your unconscious. So it's pulling out the good stuff and flushing out.

What holds us back? Pulling up and installing the good stuff and pulling up and disposing of the bad stuff. Exactly. And so from a longevity and health perspective, the clearer we... The more we've taken out the trash and brought out the beautiful items of Articles of Beauty. the easier it is to live a long and healthy life. So I love that. Is there a specific example where neurofeedback helped someone break through a mental barrier that had been...

that had been limiting their health or their success? Is there one story that you can share with us today? I know you have thousands because you've been doing this a long time and you've... done some amazing work with people, but is there one that stands out in your mind, either that helps someone to be healthier or, I mean, more successful is a gimme. I mean, if our creativity goes up, our IQ goes up and our EQ goes up.

How could we not be more successful? Well, let me say, yeah, there are many, but there's one that comes jumping in. And I'm going to just cite this as an example. In the perhaps 7,000-plus people who have come for training over the years, there were five men who showed up for Alpha Training, some in the U.S., some in my center in Canada. who happened to mention on day one that they were pre-op for prostate cancer. Actually, one of the five.

was not going to be operated on. He was going to have little radioactive dowels surgically inserted in his prostate. Amazing. We just did. I mean, I could give you stories to indicate things about how it worked and why it worked. But the bottom line was, at the end of their Alpha training, every one of them individually went back to their doctors, who...

Couldn't find any prostate cancer. Interesting. Now, do you know who Dr. Carl Simonton was? No. He was the founder of a field called psycho-oncology, or healing cancer with the mind. And he had a five-day coaching program. He had refined the program to the point that he could take a group of terminal cancer patients with a prognosis of one year or less left to live.

And he could double their median survival time. Now, doubling the average, you could do by having a few superstars. Doubling the median means he's helping everybody. And so in 2003, he came for training. Oh, I need to mention that. Because of this work, he was put on the FDA's kook list. Kook? The FDA has a kook list.

Okay. Medical practitioners. That's so good to hear. But because he healed so many congressmen and senators and their spouses of cancer, he has the distinction of being the only person ever taken off the FDA's. kook list. Nice. So in 2003, he came from my training and I was in the Shockley building in Mountain View, California, where William Shockley invented the silicon transistor, launching the information processing agent. I fashioned that we were launching the conscious.

processing age out of that same building and so he did the alpha training he loved the mood scales you know he's into emotions he healed cancer by processing people's emotions in the session he'd do the forgiveness and eliminate the forgiveness. Sigmas would go away on those words. One, he'd start on, not finish. Sigma would go down. The fifth one he would get to, the sigma would go up.

So in the end, day seven, everybody else left, and he and I sat and talked far into the night. My first question, Carl, you can double the median survival time of cancer with your coaching program.

what would a biostarbonate alpha-1 training do? Immediately, he said it would triple the median survival time. And he added that if you would do... his training first to get people focused on which emotions are relevant to surviving cancer, and then do the bio-savonaut training, it would produce more than a doubling followed by a tripling.

Now, he worked himself too hard and he's no longer in a body. But I think his wife, her name was Karen Simon, I think, is still running his programs. He was in the 818 area code of California. I mean, this brings to mind Joe Dispenza's work. work right which which is not neurofeedback right but definitely has power guided people incredible power right i'd love to connect with him i hear so many good things about his work

Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, just when you talk about the psycho-oncology, like definitely there are stories around of people who have shrunk tumors and overcome incredible disease.

I'm not to cut you short, but we're going to get short on time. So I want to move on to our next question. So where do you see the field of neurofeedback in 10 years? What do you think is coming or what do you hope? Or where do you see it going? Well, I can tell you what I'm doing. Well, that works. I have outsourced my hardware development to a team in Serbia. And we have a whole new range of technologies. Later this year, we'll be opening a new center in Mexico.

And we're planning to use the new technology there, which, among other things, will allow us to do shared feedback between chambers, between buildings. Oh, that's interesting. Between cities and between countries. So we can get the whole world on the same wavelength. And you know the power that comes from that. Okay, now how to democratize it. Trainers are very rare.

and expensive people. They have to be scientifically and intellectually brilliant to understand the technology and the complexities of the human electroencephalograms. They also have to be big hearted. Because there are times in a training when people are having an ego attack, there's no logic that's going to work. There's no words that you could say. The trainer just has to open their heart and flood the person with love. It's the only thing that'll get past the blockages of the ego.

So to find somebody who's good in either one of those is hard. To find people who are good in both is challenging. So I am with a programmer developing an AI assistant for trainers. Currently, we measure 128 different brain parameters every 15 seconds. Even in an advanced alpha or theta training or delta training, people are only getting eight parameters.

But there's things happening in all the other 120 parameters, which is beyond even my ability to track. But the AI is going to track trends and things going on in the delta, in the gamma, in the theta, in the Schumann. In the epsilon. And then also the moods. As you know, there's hundreds of words you respond to every day. No trainer can remember how many times a person denied a particular word.

And how did that Sigma change over the seven days of the training? But the AI is going to be able to track that. And the AI is going to be able to make correlation between changes in these 128 brain. parameters and these multiple hundreds of emotional words and it's going to come up with guidance which i submit will be beyond the ability of any human to match and there'll be a human there who is

the source of love, the heart space holder. And so this will be an AI system for trainers. And we'll be able to train soon millions of people all around the world. Interesting. Well, I love the bringing AI into the picture, right? Because as you were talking earlier and talking about stacks of paper of neurofeedback brainwaves. it begs that is that stack of paper is begging her number cruncher that frankly

I think that's where AI could really shine for us. But having the human there and having you informing the process. is this blending of mastery with, you just need a cruncher to crunch through the data to give you what you need to make work your magic. It's brilliant. Well, it's a reprise of how I began in the field.

Because I had a physics degree, a bachelor's degree in physics, and I knew how to evaluate signals. And I knew that none of the brainwave feedback equipment on the market was even a toy. They were inaccurate to the max, and the feedback was unconsciously designed. And so I spent the first some years building the tools. I first built the world's best analog filters with 400 dB per octave roll-off.

on the slopes. A third of a dB ripple in the passband. Then I built the world's first microprocessor to run the whole thing. And so I'm now all the way back to building the tools. The first thing I have to do is teach the AI how to read the brainwaves. Because brainwaves are notorious for artifacts. I mean, an eye blink produces artifacts 10 to 50 times bigger than the biggest brainwaves. Imagine what a sneeze does or a swallow.

Or if an electrode comes loose. So, yeah, the first step is to get the AI to read and eliminate artifacts from the brainwaves, and then we can go forward. I'm building the tools. I'm in a new phase of building the tools. I love it. I love it. I love it. So that's the 10-year vision, and I don't think it'll take 10 years. It won't. That's the vision. Every month, the AI is getting better at writing the Python code. Do you think that the future of mental health care will...

Finally shift towards more brain-based treatments like neurofeedback? Well, it'll have to. Back when I was still in the university, I had a psychiatrist come to me, a private practice psychiatrist, and wanted to do the training. And I said, how do you find out about us? He said, well, you've trained some of my patients and you've done more for them in seven days than I've been able to do in 20 years. I want to know what you're doing. No doubt.

No doubt. So how do we get adoption of this? Like, how do we get it out there? I mean, we kind of talked about it a little bit offline before we started recording and you know, the word democratize comes to mind, but even beyond democratizing, like this is. You know, neurofeedback training, dealing with trauma, dealing with pain, getting the ego in check, you know, bringing up the good stuff, getting rid of the trash, all of these things we've been talking about. These are...

If people could have access to this and more widely, I mean, if everybody had access, if we could do it in schools, the kids before they get totally... Like the world would be a different place. How do we even imagine to bring this as a starting point to more people? Given the technology and the staff and the time involved, there's no way.

you know, that this could be, you know, the cost of a bag of groceries. No. Okay. And it can't be done for children under seven because before seven, they haven't entered the formal operational stage of intelligence. And the things that pass for alpha waves are not even eight cycles per second. The child's brain is still developing. They could do peripheral feedback. But brainwave feedback can be started.

Hopefully they don't need it before the age of seven. We will train people as young as seven. The range currently goes up to 101. Now, what can we do? We can, for example, in... In 2008, I asked myself this question. It turns out that I went to look at the size of the defense budget. And I couldn't get current figures, but I was able to get 2004. Half.

of the U.S. defense budget in 2004 would give bio-sibernet training to all 300 million North Americans, adult North Americans. So the money's there. It's just being allocated, shall we say, differently. The money is there. We as a society, as societies, we have the financial resources. And with the new technology that I'm developing in Serbia, we can stamp it out by the millions of training centers. So this literally can be in every school and in every home.

So as the AI rolls out, once that system gets refined, do you think the cost will come down? Well, yeah, of course. Dramatically. Oh, yeah. Becomes less labor intensive to execute. Okay. So. As we come close to the end of our conversation, I have one last question for you. So as someone who spent his career, more than his career really, studying and helping optimize their brain function.

How have you personally seen your own mindset and longevity change over the years? What are the changes you've experienced? I mean, I know the answer to the question because I've spent enough time talking to you. But would you share with the audience?

Your progression. And as you say, it's a never-ending journey. It's a progression. Well, in fact, as soon as you and I finish, Darren is here. He's going to put electrodes on my head, and I'm going to go in and do a tune-up. Probably at the Alpha 6 level. Okay, so it's been a progression. In the summer between eighth grade and high school, my dad brought me into his office and said, Jim, you're a smart kid and you're probably going to want to go to college.

I'm here to tell you I'm not going to give you a dime. If you want to go to college, you'll have to study hard and get a scholarship. So I studied every night until 2 a.m., even on the weekends. I had one date in all of high school. I took Linda Todaro to the senior prom. But I worked all the time studying. And I got a big scholarship. I went to Carnegie Tech and so on.

All of that was done with a lot of anxiety. I bit my fingernails until they were gone. And then being agile, I bit my toenails until they were gone. And that continued until after I... had that experience in Joe Camilla's chamber. And now I have fingernails and I have toenails. Well, that's a win. That was, you asked for, I mean, you know, pretty basic in parallel.

with the brainwave training, I had the Yogananda lessons. So I had the spiritual guidance. And I didn't know to avoid onions and garlic. But in like the second week's lesson, You know, from Yogananda here came, okay, you need to begin eliminating onion and garlic. It promotes a majestic temper. So the progression has been continuous. And now where I am, I'm at the state of wanting to, I'm looking for the verb help, cause, make. I'm wanting the state of divine presence.

to be more continuous in your, in your, in your own life, in my world. Yeah. All right. Well, that's a goal. And so how often do you do tune-ups? Well, it varies. I mean, there are times where I'll do seven days in a row. Still. Like a full training. So this is a description of what happened to me on day six. of my last seven day training at the alpha seven level. Now in alpha six, there's no feedback sound unless all eight head sites are making alpha simultaneously.

So in alpha four, you have to have four head sides. In alpha five, you have to have six. And in alpha six, you have to have all, the whole head has to be in alpha or it's quiet. Okay.

One of the hallmarks of Alpha 4-5, and especially Alpha 6, is the vast emptiness and stillness that is experienced when so many head sites, so many brain locations are joining together simultaneously in a chorus of beautiful alpha music. There are layers. consciousness experienced in this state. At one level you experience that there is the body with its itches and twitches and urges, and another level is the mind.

which is usually filled with thoughts, feelings, and emotions. But then there are those moments where there is stillness, when the thoughts are absent. and the feelings and emotions are gone and are not even memories and then there is a vastness it's like when a foggy window clears when your mind clears in this way. Then the consciousness that pervades the universe is encountered and engaged, and there's a connection.

Emerging with, even an immersion in, that vastness of undifferentiated awareness. Some might call this God. Sometimes there is also present another level of awareness. An awareness that there is a body, and that there is a mind, and that these are now quiescent. Totally still. And what is occurring is an immersion in the one, in the all. And then...

There is an awareness of being transcendentally healed and of somehow being prepared for higher purposes and for being of service beyond what is known. or even beyond what is knowable. Pretty powerful. Something to aim for. So, Dr. Hart, I mean, clearly you in your work, in your life, in your mission, in your vocation have achieved really beautiful.

things and have made it your life's work to share it with as many people as possible. So thank you for that. Thank you for all that you do. It's my honor. My pleasure. Having had the pleasure, I don't know that I thought it was a pleasure at the time, but having had the pleasure of spending seven days in the chamber. And it's not that it wasn't a pleasure. It's that it's a process and it's a deep process.

And it takes time and energy. And it's quite something. It's a journey. And it's really only, you know, when you've only done it once, it's only the beginning of your journey.

To see your commitment to the journey and your commitment to bringing others along in the journey is really quite something. So for anybody who's curious about BioCybernot training, would you like to tell them, first of all, tell them about your book? Because you have a book that people can read that I think would be a fabulous follow-up to the podcast called The Art of Smart Thinking by James Hart, PhD. I highly recommend it because that'll give you a really good sense.

of a lot of what we've been talking about today and so much more. And then if they want to learn about BioCybernaut and maybe think they might want to... devote a week of their life to elevating their consciousness, their creativity, their EQ, their IQ and all the other things, where would they go? What would they do? Well, you can actually get, for your listeners, you get a free copy of the book, PDF, by going to the BioCybernaut website, which is www.biocybernaut.com.

B I O C Y B E R N A U T.com. And then do a slash and the word bonus. Okay. And you can download a free PDF copy. Beautiful. And then. At biocybernaut.com period, biocybernaut.com is where they can inquire about maybe. There's also copies of some of my scientific papers. There's videos that I made. Great. Before Michael Jackson came for training, he told me when we first met that he had watched all the videos I had at that time. He said he watched everyone 25 times to get into it before.

to merge with it before coming. He actually wrote three songs when he was in the outfit chamber at Bios Avernote. Wow, I bet he did. And then many after he left. So there's a 1-800 number. There's the website. And there's the book. And then there's maybe some meditation in the absence of garlic and onions and caffeine. Well, we need to put alcohol on that list, too, because alcohol suppresses health. And alcohol, for sure.

I would think drugs don't do much for it either. Well, it depends on the drug. For example, in 1962, months before... LSD was made illegal in the state of California, Barbara Brown, an early biofeedback researcher, gave LSD to college students legally. and measured their brain waves. In some, the alpha went way up, in others, the alpha went way down, and it divided on whether they were visualizers or not.

Because if you're visualizing, even with your eyes closed, that's going to suppress alpha, just like looking at things with your eyes open. So different responses. The enemy of alpha is visuals. Yes. Clear the mind. Thank you so much, Dr. Hart. Thank you, Natalie. Wonderful to hang out with you again. Thank you. Bless you and all you do. Hey folks, just a quick reminder that all of the information presented in this podcast.

is for information purposes only. No medical advice, no diagnosing, no treatments suggested here. Before you try anything that you hear about or learn about here, make sure that you check with your medical provider.