154: Dr. Zena Al Kelaby - The Next Generation

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Hey everyone, welcome back to the Longevity Muscle Podcast. I'm Kenny, your host. This is our second episode of the Women's Series and I am excited to share it with you all. Zina is a five-time British champion. She competes in figure. And she has also competed in natural bodybuilding, women's natural bodybuilding. And she is a sponsored athlete with natural bodybuilding worldwide.

If you caught our recent episode with AJ Morris, we get into all the good details with natural bodybuilding worldwide and what they're all about. And we also touch on that a little bit in this episode. We also talk about Zena's training, her nutrition, how she manages two jobs working 60 plus.

hours a week as a vet so let's get right into it enjoy how are you yeah i'm good all good it's um i'm in a deload at the moment so i'm a bit bit bored but i'm okay oh right that's like you're just kind of taking it easy with your training you mean backing off yeah yeah just a few days off and then i'll be back in the gym probably tomorrow so okay so the way you deload is you'll just take a few extra rest days basically

Yeah, like three rest days and then like three lower volume and then back to normal. Nice. Yeah. Okay. So that sounds actually quite similar to how AJ would do it. I guess you... Maybe have similar philosophies, given that you're linked with MBW, obviously. But we'll get into all that fun stuff. What I do want to start off with is, well, first off, thank you so much for taking the time. As you know, this is the beginning of our women's series. So this is great.

And AJ recommended that we chat. And then I also saw that you are or were, I don't know if you still are, an athlete with Team 3DMJ or you had been coached by them at one point throughout your career, right? Yeah, so my 2023 prep was with 3DMJ with Brian. And then I actually left them at the end of 2023. And now AJ coaches me as well.

it was like no bad blood at all it was just because they were so far away and i could never really like see them in person but yeah i had an amazing year with brian he's i literally cannot fault the guy he's amazing and then yeah i've just been working with aj since how did you meet aj

So I actually knew AJ pretty much back before I even started bodybuilding. And then I've known him from social media and things like that. But he's pretty much been around since I started. So he's seen... everything and i was never actually coached by him until 2023 okay and first off uh i want to make sure i get this right is it zina or zayna zina

Xena. Okay, perfect. So that way I pronounce that correctly throughout the episode. Okay, so Xena. Yeah. Xena. Okay, good. Okay, so I did see in your stories you were a swimmer. Yes. So I did competitive swimming pretty much from the age, literally, I could swim and walk at the same time, but competitively from like 10 or 11 up until I was 17, actually. And yeah, that sport was my whole life, pretty much.

It was every single thing that meant the world to me. And yeah, I got to a pretty high level with that. And I actually ended up having a bit of a crossroads at 17. So I wanted to be a vet and I really wanted to go to uni, study veterinary, but I also really wanted to take... like all the way like Olympics and things like that but unfortunately I kind of was very much in my head at the time where I wasn't one of those people that could just pass my exams without having to kind of put

everything into them so I had to make the decision I actually ended up failing half of my exams while still trying to swim so then the next year then I resettled my exams stopped swimming got into uni and then I just felt like I'd left swimming in a good place and I didn't really want to go back and like try and kind of pick that back up. I wanted to focus on uni at that point. Was that a hard transition though? Yeah, it was genuinely like quitting swimming and also...

making the decision to like leave school and re-sit the year somewhere else those two decisions still to this day are like the biggest decisions i've ever had to make in my life and you know some people would think oh you know it's it's not that deep but swimming for me like i imagined myself going

the whole way like i imagine myself being an olympian and i also imagine imagine myself obviously being a vet and having to make that decision at 17 it's a big thing and both of those decisions have to come together. The swimming one was, I actually kept swimming when I made the decision to leave my school and go and reset my exam. So I basically did my first year of A-levels.

And then I pretty much I didn't fail, quote unquote, but had very low grades that wouldn't have got me into vet school the year after. So I left all of my school friends after my teacher basically told me that I would never, ever make it as a vet. I should pick something different. She said that.

I should just apply for something different in uni so that day I actually picked up my bag and walked out of school and then I went to a college and just said like can you take me to re-sit my exams and whatever and they were like we're full but then I basically explained the situation to them and they let me in.

And then I started with them for a few months and they actually brought it up and they just said, look, like, I'll be real with you, like swimming to that level and trying to get your grades to where they need to be. Like, it's going to be tough. And like, you should consider making a decision. And my dad, my dad as well.

times told me that you need to decide like you just need to pick um so yeah that's when I picked that so both of those decisions at 17 was pretty hard yeah yeah I can imagine and relate on some level actually because I started in athletics as well but and wanted to be professional

football yeah as we would say in europe but it worked out for the best though sounds and looks like you're doing what you love now with not only as a vet at least that's what it seems like right and uh also with the bodybuilding like we're talking about a

Is it five-time British champion? On paper, yes. Three of those were actually in COVID year. Well, four of them were actually in COVID year. So on paper, we can say that. But to me, like... it doesn't fully feel like that um which i'm sure will go into like shows and things like that but yeah unfortunately my first competitive season was during covid where i'd won every show and they were all like open finals but yeah i mean for me like that year it was very different

you know it wasn't like a typical year so I almost sometimes don't give myself the credit for that year which you know I know I should but also it was very different you know there wasn't the same standard there wasn't the same process so on paper yes but in reality like

Not really for me. I hear you. Is that the BMBF, by the way? So yeah, the BMBF I actually didn't do in the 2020 season. I don't actually know if they had a show that year because every federation was like... basically trying to just put out like one show because obviously of all of the everything going on so

I didn't do BMBF in 2020, but then BMBF was the British title I won in 2023, which is where I got my DFAT pro card. Since then, obviously, I've been quite closely associated with them. And yeah, I love the federation.

yeah yeah that's uh vicky mccann so for those tuning in you already know we just spoke with vicky as you know as well so let's back up to this pandemic year is it because the turnout like just not as many athletes that year that you felt that maybe it was not the same or was Was there other restrictions that made you feel that way?

I definitely think there was definitely less athletes for sure. But also like you didn't have to like qualify for the final. So it almost felt like you were cheating a step, which I know obviously you're not. It was just an open final. But I think, you know, the way a lot of the UK show works is like.

you qualify for a british final you compete at the british final where you're literally surrounded by the best people that year whereas in covid it was almost like a case of like whoever made it to stage got on stage and you know part of me sometimes thinks like should i have done the prep year and I don't regret it by any means but I know a lot of like of the higher end athletes.

made the decision to pull their preps that year so i sometimes think you know that year for me was i would never change it but equally like i would say i'd had one proper year of competing and that was 2023 okay so for the listeners who may not know when was your first show And how old were you? So my first show was 2020 and I would have been...

22 at that show then well i would have just turned 22 and then my obviously my next one was 2023 so took a three-year off season in between and then i won't be competing again until at least next year so three years again okay and the mbw your role within mbw

and then we'll go back to this competing stuff just because i i don't like to miss things so this kind of gets like it's a freestyle right but um this mbw stuff so you met of course we know how you you know you met aj and whatnot how did that happen was it like an invitation did you see like oh we gotta bring zina on board like she's just she's too good with this competing stuff like how did this happen hey everyone hope you're enjoying the episode real quick

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Yeah, so obviously you kind of mentioned it briefly, but I've known AJ pretty much since I started bodybuilding back in 2020. Well, 2019 is when I started bodybuilding. 2020 is when I did my first prep. And I've known of AJ and we spoke since 2019.

and obviously kind of like followed each other's journeys throughout that through 2020 as well and then I would say obviously MBW started like back in 2022 time and I wasn't one of the initial athletes from the moment he kind of launched MBW I always supported the brand because I could see the vision.

of MBW and that vision completely aligned with what my vision for natural bodybuilding was. So since they launched, I kind of followed the brand. I invested in them. I bought their clothing. I was on their member site since like when it opened, obviously then in 2023. spend a lot of time with like AJ and Loz as well at shows.

one of these people where i go to pretty much every show as well so i would always see kind of them at the shows and things like that and then kind of the back end of my 2023 prep they kind of like followed the end of my prep and yeah after that then last year

They invited me to join the team. And honestly, it was one of the biggest things I think I've got so far in bodybuilding in terms of being invited into something that meant so much to me, but it wasn't forced. I didn't ever like follow, repost, share the brand with the idea of... I'm doing this because I want to get on the team. It was that I love what they're doing. And I think AJ could see that and it wasn't just kind of like me trying to work my way in almost.

Yeah, after last year, I started judging at shows. I went to all the shows. I went abroad to watch shows and things like that. And then, yeah, towards the back end of last year, they asked me to join and, yeah, meant a lot to me. That's awesome. That's amazing. And I was just talking to AJ for those of you, maybe you missed it. Maybe you missed it. Go back. That's the episode literally that we had just published. And he was talking, I was talking about like the camaraderie is just.

unmatched right now with mbw it just seems like that way you got ben howard of course keefe you lowe's i'm the list there's there's a bunch now it's growing right and you guys have like meetups like how does that work yeah so as a as of yet like no like official meetups um but obviously we're always like all together at shows and things like that i'm very close with like loz and ella so like i've met up with them individually we film videos together for the site so every

athlete basically films like one video a month for the member site and sometimes those end up being with other athletes as well um i know kind of aj's vision is to do more where we're all together but yeah i mean obviously we'll all be at the mbw show some of us competing some of us spectating some of us

helping out but yeah I think you know over the next kind of few years it would definitely be nice to kind of like I know I've listened to the episode with you and AJ and he mentioned about kind of potentially doing seminars together abroad and that is something that I'm super keen for I know everyone else would be as well so yeah it's you know it's

definitely something that's growing and you know each year they kind of bring something new out the bag so yeah it'll be super cool in the future to do kind of things all together Amazing. Amazing. And the MBW event, you're going to be there, right? You're not competing because you mentioned you're taking this year off season, but you'll be there just to, I'm assuming like help out and just, yes, a spectator in a way or.

Kind of. So he hasn't mentioned it on when he had a chat with you. So I won't mention it yet, but I am involved in some way. I'm not judging. You know, some people listening to this, I know they'll be like, oh, she's going to judge. I'm not judging. But I do have a little role, which I am super excited for. So yeah, I'm definitely going to be involved. I'm going to be present the whole day. And yeah, I'm absolutely buzzing for it. So it'll be good fun.

okay so that's wonderful and let's uh dive back into this contest uh history even goals and then we'll also transition to some training stuff that's always fun but let's talk about the contest history a little bit more so you got the technically five british titles right technically

And did you compete at DFAC? You did compete at DFAC Worlds? No. not yet no so if we like 2020 obviously that was that's pretty easy to summarize i did pca open which i won tone figure i did the uk fba international open which i won figure and then i also did the UK open which are one toned figure. got my nfm it's like a gbo pro card and then i did the pro show and won that so that was kind of my four in 2020 and then in 2023 i did the obviously bmbf qualifiers

I actually did women's bodybuilding and won that and did figure and that as well. And then I did both again in the finals, but took my pro card in figure. And then I did the UKID FBA finals, which I actually placed third, which... kind of then altered the rest of that season for me, which we can go into in a second if you want. But yeah, I also did PCA again, which I won the qualifier, but I decided not to do their finals. Okay, and elaborate on that then.

Yeah, so basically my goal for 2023, I've spoke about it before, it's not kind of new knowledge, but... I really wanted to win the UKFBA finals. I really wanted to go abroad with them. I really wanted to go kind of like Europeans, Natural Olympia, everything. And I'm sure we'll cover it on its own in a second, but also with work, being a vet.

I had to plan that year meticulously to be able to allow myself the time, if I was to qualify, to be able to go away and do those shows. Because obviously... You don't know until the day if you're going to qualify. And I wouldn't have been able to get time off work last minute. So I actually took like quite an extended period of time off to be able to hopefully go to those shows. So my goal going into that season was to win. Obviously, I won it in 2020.

different circumstances so i really wanted to go and win bmpf i actually never expected to win and get my pro card there i don't know why i guess it's because i'd never competed with them before i didn't really know how i'd fit with them so i did that bmbf show first and got my defat pro card which was obviously like such a shock that day was a whirlwind of emotions because you have prejudging and then you have finals and after prejudging

They moved us around so much to the point where I was like, there's no way, you know, I genuinely didn't expect it. And then got my DFAT pro card. And then obviously I did the UK FBA show and I ended up coming third. So then at that point, then my kind of options was.

I couldn't go any further with UKIDFBA and they didn't invite me to go abroad. So I couldn't do anything with them. The DFAC European show, they didn't have a pro figure. They only had like pro bodybuilding and things like that. So the only other option with DFAC at that point was to go to.

Australia to do Worlds which you know for me that wasn't I didn't really want to do that at that point in time but my other option really was to do like a WMBS show but I think at that point then i knew what i needed to do better so i decided to stop my season after that show which wasn't when i planned on stopping and yeah since then i have got the kind of like

You know, they always say like no one works harder than the one that comes like second or third. So I have been putting everything into to getting better. Nice, nice. And before we go into like the ultimate goal for Zina, like we're going to talk about that as well.

on the competitive side let's talk about like your inspiration for women's bodybuilding obviously you did the swimming you wanted to to the olympics you wanted to be an olympian obviously that's rooted in your desire to be a champion in some way right but why the like what was it that inspired the bodybuilding and is there any buddy in particular on the women's side that also inspired you Yeah, so I mean, for me, it was...

It was more of the statement of you can do more than one category. That was part of my decision making because before I did that, not many people kind of was brave enough to go figure in bodybuilding. And the BMBF...

provide like an awesome opportunity for anybody to cross over into women's bodybuilding to kind of almost keep women's bodybuilding alive and Vicky you know obviously is super passionate about women's bodybuilding and that passion kind of then spread so my kind of like decision to do it was

I absolutely hate wearing heels and I'm not afraid to say that. Like I don't enjoy wearing heels. I'm not a girly girl at all. And giving kind of like the opportunity to take my heels off and actually just kind of like show off more of my physique was so appealing to me. I love...

the body I love like bodybuilding poses I love men's bodybuilding so being able to do that and showcase that for me was like super special and given the opportunity it was one that I couldn't really say kind of no to obviously I didn't have like the level of muscle to

super competitive at that point but um yeah it was really cool to do it and do the poses and just go and like try another category and since then like I've had so many messages of people saying you know I'm inspired to do women's bodybuilding and that was kind of the goal for me was to kind of just put it back on the map and put

Also kind of like fuel Vicky's passion for it and try and spread it a little bit further. So yeah, you know, it's definitely a category I loved in 2023. I can't say I would do it again because I do think my potential lies with Vigor. But yeah, it was super fun. Hey everyone, super important announcement for you all.

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Link will be in the show notes. wonderful and if we zoom out though like let's zoom out for a second because we went very in in the trenches there but zoom out just in general what got you inspired to do the bodybuilding like meaning you're going to the gym you're training and then you want to compete regardless of the category

so like you're just in general yeah bodybuilding as a whole um i thought we meant the category but yeah no no but that both were good like it's good that we touch on both because that's important yeah um so for me when i was back at set kind of pulling it back to being like 17 me deciding to quit swimming. I did that year of my A-levels, managed to get into vet school, went to vet school.

And at that moment then, obviously, I ticked off that goal because with vet school, you know, once you're in, you're in. You can pass your exams, you know. The hardest thing is getting into vet school. So I'd almost ticked off that part.

But then there was just such a part of me that felt that was missing. Like I couldn't ever explain it to anyone. I think unless you've done like an elite sport, you can't explain what that feeling is. There was just a part of me that was missing. And when I went to uni, I... tried every single uni sport i tried swimming briefly for the uni team i tried netball i tried hockey i tried rowing nothing just gave me that like same like passion or feeling that swimming did so

I ended up going to the gym all of my friends would kind of like go and do uni things and I would just go to a local gym I met people there got into lifting got my personal training qualification paid for by uni to be able to kind of teach classes at uni that then started to kind of like fuel my passion for

the gym in general and then I met my partner Ethan who was already into bodybuilding at that point and he kind of like exposed me to the sport and I was the typical you know when I first met him I said I would never want to do bodybuilding it's not me but then the more you get exposed to it

it the more i started almost training like a bodybuilder living like a bodybuilder and then before i knew it i was in in my first contest prep um so it was it was the only thing that filled the gap that swimming gave me it gave me like a different of purpose whereas nothing else did that for me and so I'm so grateful for it for fulfilling that.

amazing yeah i'm sure many can relate to this you i when i was speaking with aj so he was talking about how you work nights i'm assuming it's not going to be forever like that's just a window of like okay i'm gonna have to do this for the next little while based on maybe because you're relatively new to the to after graduating or yeah

Not completely like for that reason. I have two jobs. So I work part time at two different vets because I like the like contrast in what they provide. One of my jobs is like a 24-7 hospital. And then as part of the rota, you...

kind of take part in like running the night shifts and doing out of hours between the team yourself. I used to work at that place full time so I used to do a lot more night shifts a lot more weekends but now I'm only part-time there. I only really do night shifts like to cover other people if they're sick.

or if the rotor needs like a gap filling and things like that so I probably average like one or two a month now which is yeah it's pretty easy it's not too bad but yeah I was definitely doing more beforehand and yeah to be honest like again same with anything it's like

A lot of people be like, I couldn't do that. But if you had to, you would. And it's just managing, you know, the best that you can. And I don't really change anything. I'm lucky enough that I can usually get a little bit of sleep on them and then just try and go back to normal the next day, really.

right right so the night shifts were basically the hospital because you were working in a hospital yeah yeah okay that's understandable and and now you're not barely doing it like you said like twice a month right but when you work How did that affect your training? Like, was that something you had to be smart about when, like, what time did you train? This would be interesting for the listeners who might also be having to deal with that right now.

Yeah, so our night shifts run from 5pm until 8am the next day. And sometimes I would like try and plan my training so that I would train on the day of the night shift. So I would train in the morning. So I would train at about kind of 10am.

something like that do my session come home eat i would try and get a nap in before starting work at 5 p.m then ideally the next day when i finished at eight would be a rest day if it wasn't a rest day then depending on if i got any sleep or not i would kind of go home eat my pre-workout and go straight to the gym after the shift or go home nap and then go straight to after the gym but my like biggest tip is always train after you've slept if that makes sense so whether or not

You sleep on, you can manage to sleep on the night shift and you train in the morning or whether you get a nap and then you train. You want to be fueled and you want to have as much sleep as you can before you train. And, you know, that is going to look different for everyone. And not everyone is going to be able to change their training around.

And, you know, now when I do them, I don't change anything. I just do the do the session on the day it falls. My job is never going to be ideal for bodybuilding. You know, I have to do my sessions at 6 a.m. I have to do my sessions after a 60 hour week. And if I consistently waited for.

perfect time to train i would never train yeah that's important that you just mentioned that can you elaborate on a little bit so you will have days where you're tired and you're going to go in and you're going to train regardless right yeah so i'm like tired every day you know like

The other week I did like something over like 120 hours in like a 10 day period. And at the end of the day, you know, like. I always tell myself, and even before I got my pro card in my head, it would be like, what would a professional do? What would a professional athlete, how would they conduct themselves? And that's showing up no matter what. And, you know, I get up. I don't want to wake up when my alarm goes off. I'd love to. press news but I would never do that because at the end of the day

My competitor would, you know, you don't ever want to be outworked and whether or not that's you going tired, it's whether or not you're going hungry, it's whether or not, you know, you just have to do what you can and do your best at every single moment. And, you know, that looks different. You know, my logbook probably doesn't.

look as consistent as bodybuilders that train the same every day i have to deal with regressions some week that's just inevitable but showing up is what matters how often do you train so i am currently on a push pull rest legs breasts split so that works out like six times in 10 days okay so very similar to aj from when i spoke to aj

yeah and so if we back up when you were doing the night shift more the night shifts were you training in that same fashion were you training in that same uh asynchronous split so whenever it followed it or yeah how did that work so when i did most of my night shifts I was actually with 3DMJ with Brian Miner and I was on an upper lower split then and that wasn't anything to do with like work that was just his preference for me um so yeah it ended up that there was

A little bit more flexibility, I would say, that I could potentially put rest days in different places. But yeah, I still tend to kind of like... train when I was meant to as opposed to moving things around because sometimes I think people can get almost too obsessed with trying to move things around to make it work best and that almost like especially when I was on prep like I didn't have the energy to think about that it was just like

OK, this is a training day. This is what I'm going to train. And yeah, I mean, I was on a thick seven day split for a long time with Brian, which meant that I couldn't really change things around. But at some points I could. So it kind of just depended, really. Does that ever, or have you felt that it's backfired on you sometimes with that mentality? Obviously you're striving to be a champion.

the ultimate goal we don't know what that is yet maybe we can touch on that later we are going to touch on that later but you're striving to be a champion have you felt that that's backfired in a sense that okay you're tired you're exhausted but it's a training day and then you go in and you train and

Yeah, like you said, the logbook, it's like nothing's happening. Maybe you're just feeling extremely run down. Maybe you just felt like, wow, that wasn't productive. Has that ever happened? Or like being honest, you know, I think that would be interesting. Oh yeah, 100%. AJ always tells me how stubborn I am. But I think that is definitely a trait that has got me to where I am. And don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect by any means. And sometimes I know, like, you know, on paper...

I probably shouldn't do this session today. I probably should take an extra rest day. Do I? Probably not most of the time. I definitely have got a lot better at learning my body, learning what I can push, what I can't push. I have... Definitely experienced burnout multiple times. And when I get the balance wrong with bodybuilding and veterinary, I really do suffer from it. And yeah, I have hit burnout, true burnout a lot of times. And, you know, definitely could it.

be avoided probably but equally sometimes I think if you don't ever learn where those limits are you never learn from it and even you know this kind of current training but we're in I knew by week four or five that i needed to deload but i waited until week eight because i'm stubborn and that's just the way it is sometimes and a dreamer says you know sometimes he has to like force me to take them because i hate

I hate extra restates. I love the gym. I love being there. And unfortunately, you know, we all have downfalls and that's definitely one of mine. Right. But like you said, you don't know until you have gone through it to be able to experience it. And then.

looking in high you know back in or looking in hindsight you say okay next time i know how to handle this maybe a little bit better now you are like you said maybe you're stubborn and you're ambitious and you're also young you're sub 30 right like you're not you're not even you haven't even hit 30 yet 26 right so you got time

And you're not even close to your peak yet. Like your peak will probably be in your mid 30s, maybe even 40s. Right. So this is that energy that comes with the 20 in that 20 year old era. Like I experienced it. AJ's probably transitioning now into a different stage. And when I last spoke to him maybe three years ago, he's probably evolved since then. So this is this is actually very valuable. And now that I think about it.

You're literally the next generation of athletes coming in. I didn't, I didn't realize you were, you were in your mid twenties, right? Yeah. Yeah. So this is awesome. So when you're talking about now, um, per week. Like, let's talk about it per week. What does that work out to on average that you're in the gym? Three to four times. Yeah.

yeah three to four times a week probably more so four it's probably works out like four most weeks and the odd week three but yeah maybe four times yeah so it'd be like uh no no it's right around there that's give or take so basically

it's like push pull off legs yeah off repeat or you'll take an extra rest day where needed and that's how it ends up being four sometimes right yeah gotcha or deload and then it's really like three basically yeah interesting okay let's uh talk about this the goal here

also go back to the training but the the ultimate goal for xena what does that look like as far as the competitive side and what is it like to win having gone through the swimming journey right you know what it's like to win but did it feel different winning in bodybuilding versus swimming

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and no you know like i think there's something in you know in a lot of us as bodybuilders that like obviously you you want to be the best you want to win i think you know something i probably i haven't actually spoken about on anyone's podcast yet so it's probably like the first time I'll be saying this out loud and you know it's definitely taken a long time to say it out loud but my dream as a swimmer was to represent Team GB was to go away as part of

great britain and represent my country worldwide that was a goal that was so special to me, but I never made it there. I never actually got there. Like I represented Wales, which is where I'm living, but I never made it onto Team GB. And then after I stopped swimming, the biggest thing for me was I want to represent my country.

in a sport and i just didn't know which ball that would be so i think still to this day like i still haven't represented team gb abroad and my biggest goal i think is to just go away as part of a team and obviously you know my biggest goal is to be a world champion. That is what I want and I'm not afraid to say that out loud. I think, you know, I definitely want to go away. I would love to win.

a world championship whether that be as an amateur or pro and I'm sure we'll kind of get on to you know what I'm going to compete as next season but you know I would be satisfied when I get the status of pro world champion and that's as pretty much simple as it gets. I love that. So talk about what organization that would mean the world.

okay hold on let me back up for a second there's a lot of orcs we know that there's a lot of world championship titles you could win what's the one now obviously you're a defect pro so i know what i want to assume it's going to be but i don't want to assume for the listeners what's that gonna what is that to you what what world title are you essentially looking to chase and get and earn yeah you know what like honestly i'm still

unsure um and that is because bodybuilding in the uk in the world is changing every single year and you know what that looked like what that looked like last year what that looked like now what that looks like next year is very different all of the time i think you know obviously i definitely want to be kind of represent defact do you know defact shows and things like that but if we're looking at simply you know what is the most competitive

pro figure lineup it is with WMBF they have for me right now they have the most competitive figure pros and ultimately I don't really care which which I end up stepping on stage with, but I want to be in a lineup of the best bigger athletes in the world, wherever they may be at that given time. You know, it's not something that, you know, I want to do.

on paper an easy pro show win and say i'm pro i want to literally be against the best and you know wherever they may be at that time that's where i want to be um so yeah right now i don't know and figure that's the idea right because that's you feel like you're maybe more suited for that based on what the posing what what is it about figure that attracts you towards that

Yeah, I think, you know what, like fear has definitely always been the category where I've learned towards like when I first got introduced to bodybuilding, I thought I would be junior bikini, but I have very wide clavicles. And I think for me, like that gives me a very big.

advantage in figure i think the shape of my physique is pretty much down to down to a t what figure criteria looks for and honestly it's just where i think i i have the most potential women's bodybuilding is definitely something that i love but i would definitely

need a lot more muscle a lot more maturity to be competitive in that category which for me potentially you know 10-15 years if I'm still competing that could be somewhere where I think all right yeah I want I want to pursue that but for the next short term, you know, five, six, seven years, 100%, I think I have the most potential in figure. Okay. Is there any figure athletes that you look up to that inspire you?

I don't know if you know her, but Becky Paidman, she's an Australian athlete. She is someone who I definitely kind of look up to in terms of what I would like my physique to look like in figure, because I think she's very much like me in terms of shape.

and structure she's just bigger harder leaner and you know I think I would love to kind of like build a physique like that um but yeah I mean anyone you know on the pro figure stage they're all awesome so it's super cool to kind of see them and you know look at them and look what look at what they're doing awesome and actually i'll have to look her up because i'm not familiar with her so i'll definitely check her out is she a world champ

Yep. Okay. Cool. In Australia. Okay. So I wonder what she, do you know which work? by the way? I think she, I think she potentially won Natural Olympia. She's done like a fit body physique as well. But yeah, when you see her, you'll know what I mean. She's very, very similar structure to me. She just has more, more density. So I definitely. see myself being able to potentially look like that once I've kind of packed on more tissue. But yeah, she's great.

So what do your off seasons look like? I'd be curious about this. I'm sure the listeners are as far as the training and the diet. So the training we kind of touched on, but I also I'm still curious about like, was that influenced by because AJ's your coach now. So I'm sure he kind of just.

says here you're gonna do this because this is what i think is best for you and you just you listen or do you question him like what's where's the logic behind this system because it it is like aj's split that's literally what aj's yeah on or maybe still doing Yeah, you're still doing. Yeah, I mean, because obviously I've been...

I've been through a few coaches. I've tried a lot of different things. After my 2020 prep, I actually was like self-coached slash my partner kind of looked over my training. And during that, then I learned a lot about, you know, what works for me, what I can recover from, how I like.

to train and then obviously kind of going with 3DMJ I learned basically the complete opposite of what I was doing you know I learned more about reps and reserve training I changed my split to upper lower I learned what I didn't like about that so then when it came to kind of the first consultation call with aj like i basically said

this is what i like this is what works for me this is what i would like to do and then he kind of like factored all of those things on board and we kind of had like a mutual agreement of okay this is what we're gonna do and i think a lot of our coaching relationship at the moment is very much like

continuous chats between us it's not like a dictatorship but ultimately he has the final decision which i think is super important and i respect that you know it sometimes i'll suggest something and he'll be like you know what i appreciate that but I think we should do it this way and I'll do it that way. You know, it's definitely always a two way conversation, which I really like.

Nice. Yeah. And also trust, right? Like anytime you're getting a coach, you want to be able to trust him and appreciate that they do have the final decision. Otherwise, what's the point of having a coach, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I do fully trust. I trust him and I trust the decisions he makes. So I think, you know, again, like you've mentioned, it's such an important thing is if you don't trust them, then it's 10 times harder.

yeah it's like what are we doing here so you know it's interesting about the reps and reserve you brought that up so Definitely. I've seen some clips like you train hard, like you're about grinding out some sets. Are you doing the reps in reserve anymore? Is that or is it just like you're taking it to the house?

Yeah, no, I am. So when I first joined 3DMJ, I was obviously put with Brian, which I was really happy about. And me and Brian got on super well. You know, we were very much on a very similar page with a lot of things. you know.

i'm willing to go fully in and try it completely your way try it the way you know you want me to do it try it the way 3dmj run things try everything that way so i ran like an eight to ten week block of just the way they program sessions which for pretty much every movement was x amount of reps and reserve after that period of time i basically said i get it but equally it's not me you know like i miss going in and just like

pushing myself to a point that's kind of disgusting you know like i like the feeling of just being completely buried after a set so we ended up then having a little bit of a hybrid of some things to failure some things reps in reserve we kind of like kept that through the whole of the time working together but yeah i definitely think that the british way of training is it's just

balls deep and you know just absolutely ruin yourself and i love that so um yeah no more reps reserved i'm convinced at this point dorian yates a piece of dorian yates lives in every single one of you over there in the uk it's no doubt about it um every single uk

to be fair there has been the exceptions like i've talked to a few champion uh natural pros champions um they hold back some like they do the volume training that's always going to happen but for the most part like on the grand scheme definitely that approach where it's all out failure four straps whatever is on the menu that day but so like what is it like uh one hard set per exercise two hard sets per exercise how does that look

yeah so typically like between one and three depending on the movement for like your compounds it's normally one to two um and then for other things potential like leg extension hamstring or sometimes going up to three and you know it's all then dependent on how much i can recover

from if i don't have very much going on my typically can recover from doing like the three sets on things but most of the time pretty much most exercises are two sets and it's typically one lower lower rep six to eight one a little bit higher rep maybe ten to twelve as like a back offset as such. And then like per session.

it would just kind of typically be like an isolation first two compounds another two isolations and then like an accessory calves abs or whatever um so yeah not a crazy amount of volume but i think when you're truly kind of like

putting everything into every set. You don't need excessive volume. Right, right. And do you find that, of course, some days are different than others because we spoke about that. Do you have to adjust for that? Or are you like, no, this is what the paper says. I'm going to stick to that.

Yeah, it's another thing that AJ definitely says is my downfall is if that's what the paper says, that's what I'm doing. Like, you know, again, sometimes in my head, I could be doing a session and I think, you know what, like I know I'm probably not going to get a lot out of doing another set. The way I feel right now, the way this week's gone, the way I probably wouldn't get much out of doing another set, I still do it.

I could easily fall into the habit of going, I don't really want to do another set. I'm not going to do it. And then it is like a slippery slope of going downwards, whereas like ultimately I probably didn't lose much from doing the other set.

I just didn't gain anything. And for me, I can sleep better at night knowing that than if I didn't do the set. That's an interesting perspective. A young perspective, for sure, though. But interesting and very important still, nonetheless, because I think over time that will... perhaps evolve and you'll get, like you said, you'll learn your body more. Your body will be different 10 years from now than it is 10 years.

into the future than it is now right but i think that's an important because i think everybody who's a champion went through what you're going through currently like you can't escape that that phase that phase is like important and you'll know i think this is my perspective based on all the people i've talked to and my having gone through it as well but i think you'll know when you you're in a period where it's like

yeah this now i'm like maybe it's just two sets and i cap it there for everything and sometimes it's even one and you feel so confident like you feel so confident that that's more than enough based on your goals and what you're trying to accomplish but that's just a perspective based on everyone i've spoken to uh who's for the most part

40s and up so yeah they're also yeah they're talking from a different perspective too so they're they're like they're dealing with body aches and pains some of them so things are different you know Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. And, you know, I'm definitely there mentally. Like, I know, like, I know when I shouldn't do another set most of the time.

And I know when I shouldn't do another rep most of the time, but my body can still handle it. So for as long as it can, I'm just going to do it. And yeah, you know, until the point where my body also says absolutely not, then I'm just going to rinse this period of time.

I hear you. That's part of the athletics and becoming a champion. Right. And you're, you have that rooted in you even from the swimming, of course. And yeah, I don't think I've spoken to any, like even David Kay, who I'm sure you're familiar with. Right. Like, yeah, we've talked about.

the dark side of natural bodybuilding. That's like... putting your body on the line to a degree if your goal is to be a world champion so that's like leaving no stone left unturned that's what you're doing sounds like that's where it's going and because you want to be a world champion and that's a very different thing then i'm gonna go in and i just want the euphoric

feeling of what a workout provides i just want to look a little better i want to feel a little better no this is a different thing this is the next generation wanting to be the world champion right so i love that and um let's uh talk about the well before we dive into the diet side i feel like there was something i was missing on the training front oh exercises like how many you have like do you have a list of like okay there's seven exercises between two and three sets hard sets

Is there like a cap, like let's say that you find that this is just, this is perfect or like, how does that look? Yeah. So, I mean, for me, it typically is pretty much like.

seven to nine maximum per session and obviously one of those is usually like calves or abs one of them is normally like you know like a lateral raise it's something i've spoken about quite a lot before and it's actually something that 3dmj put a post on recently and it's like people sometimes like don't consider how much like mental stress affects your like physical stress and your physical abilities to recover and I think doing the job that I do

I definitely can handle less volume. And also my recovery is always going to be impacted by the fact that I'm mentally being challenged for at least 10 hours a day. And I think, you know, being able to kind of... slowly come to terms with the fact that I probably can't handle as much volume as some other athletes or I can't you know I have to deload more frequently things like that

Definitely took a while because I think at the start, you kind of compare yourself to other people and think, why can't I do that many exercises? Why can't I do that many sets? But ultimately, like my body physically couldn't recover from that. And you're, you know, you have to be able to kind of manage your training in a way that you're not deloading.

three weeks so yeah for me it typically looks like about seven to eight exercises with like two to three sets each and that's enough for me so yeah Nice. Yeah, I can completely relate, by the way, with the deloading every third week when I first got into this high intensity training stuff. That's what was happening to me. So I completely like I can feel that I remember those days like the third week comes around and it's like I'm fried.

and usually that has to do with the amount of volume or the frequency right within a given week so um but uh where was i gonna ask you i had something interesting here um oh ben howard this is what i was going to say so obviously you're aware of he's part of mbw and um his philosophy last time i spoke with him and i'm pretty sure it still rolls this way because aj just brought it up in our episode together three times per week yeah

usually his sessions are pretty brutal if i remember correctly from what he said now sometimes he's playing with the volume per exercise i know that's always uh auto-regulated based on where he is what phase of life he's in but do you ever feel like hmm someone like that he's a world champ he's training three days per week

I don't think he deloads ever. I don't think from when I spoke to him last, there's no deloading. So it's like, that's that trade off where, okay, I don't have to deload, which is awesome, but I can't be in the gym as frequently. Do you ever wonder like, maybe I should, uh,

Maybe this could be interesting for me. Maybe not now, but maybe eventually. Like, do you ever think about these things? Honestly, like, I actually haven't. I haven't really thought about it. I think, you know, thinking about it right now, for me, at this moment in my life, like... The gym is something that like I look forward to each day, you know, and I love.

going to the gym I love being in the gym and you know sometimes even just kind of being there more like I feel better I feel more passionate I you know I have the time to be able to do that and you know potentially

sometimes my recovery isn't the best or it's not the most optimal or things like that but I don't have any like I don't have children I don't have any other commitments where like I can't be in the gym that amount of times but I guess you know going into if I'm still bodybuilding in my 30s 40s when I have children

when I have other responsibilities I definitely think you know it's so cool to see the example that Ben is setting where you can still make incredible progress at that frequency you know so yeah I mean depending on my life my life goes you know i wouldn't be opposed to it but right now i think i would be quite sad if i only trained three times um because like i do just i love being that i love getting up i love going to the gym i love training so yeah for now no

In the future, maybe. That makes complete sense.

Makes complete sense. So with the diet or the nutrition off season wise, is there anything different that you're doing this time around than you did last off season? How's that looking for you right now? Yeah, to be honest, pretty big difference. So my. From 2020 to 2023, including my 2020 contest prep and my 2023 contest prep.

I macro tracked. I never had a meal plan. So I pretty much, if it fits to macros, my whole off season and prep. And then when I went to AJ at the end of 2023, I said, you know, I am a macro tracker. Like I am through and through. I think.

and very... definitely one of the very few people that can macro trap her prep because i definitely wouldn't recommend it to people but for me macro tracking my prep felt like i wasn't in prep and for me that worked really well since working with aj in 2023 i've actually been on a meal plan And yeah, I mean, it definitely took some adjusting to. I am someone that gets bored really quickly, but also similar to with training. And AJ was also worried about this as well is.

what's on paper is what i'll do and you know even though i know pretty much every macro and every gram and pretty much every food i still wouldn't really make swaps and things like that because that's my meal plan that's what i'm going to eat so the last like well pretty much a year and a half coming at two years i've definitely got better at being on a meal plan in terms of like making substitutions making swaps and things but yeah that's definitely

one of the biggest differences and it's just meant that everything's been more consistent and i guess we'll see next time i diet whether or not you know those changes were that different or not but yeah it was definitely a big change for me um and you know in my head i know i want to macro my next prep by the way he's not gonna let me so so he just sets a meal meal plan for you what does that meal plan look like right now give a sample

So like on a training day where I'm working, I actually have six meals just because my days are so long. So I'll have like a very small meal pre-workout because obviously I train at like half past five, six in the morning. Then I'll have post-workout, which is like cereal and whey.

Then I'll have three meals of meat and rice and veg, whether that's beef or chicken. And then every evening I have oats and that is pretty much the same every day. On a rest day, it's just five meals and it's... again turkey and eggs instead of pre and post workout and then i'll have three meals of a meat rice and veg and then i'll have oats so it's very very basic for me

Personally, the reason why it's pretty much all the same meals is just because I can bulk prep them. I love rice. I never get bored of rice. So it's easier just to make the same meal 10 times than it is to make 10 different meals. Sure, that makes sense. With the macro tracking that you were doing before, were you getting a little bit creative with the meals? Oh yeah, 100%. Like in my prep, I think definitely had things that people would definitely frown upon.

for the first you know the first like 10 to 15 weeks of my prep like I'd macro track in the odd like chocolate bar or whatever but like I also as my calories got lower I was very much like I knew I had to make better choices. And, you know, potentially I could have done it better in terms of, you know, not putting more carbs in my peri-workout window instead of like, you know, spreading them throughout the day.

it worked and i don't think i would have looked any better at the end if i had meal planned so for me you know i can manage it very well i'm not someone that's gonna save all of my calories and eat something stupid and most days i eat the same meals anyway but it just meant i could be that little bit more flexible if i wanted to be gotcha the meal the meal before um your workout i'm curious about that in the morning hold on one second it's too sunny there

Yeah, very sun, surprisingly, because I'm in the Netherlands and usually it's not like this. So this is this is quite nice. It's kind of like we get that British weather, right? Similar to the UK. Have you been, by the way, to the Netherlands? maybe maybe not not recently gotcha funny enough i haven't been to the uk that's definitely on my list but really

Yeah, that would be really cool. Depending on where I am during that time, that's definitely something I would love to do. So what I was going to say was, yeah, the meal before your workout at 5 a.m., 6 a.m., you said? Talk about that. What does that look like right now? Yeah. So that for me, that has been a very much like long history of trial and error. So I actually, before I was with Brian, I used to train fasted.

and Brian didn't like that he wanted me to train after eating so it started off where I you know I was a typical I woke up I didn't want to eat it made me feel sick and I tried different things I tried bagels I tried oats I tried everything but for the last like

15 months it's been the exact same which is way a banana and chocolate and that for me it's like digest super well it's something to kind of like keep me fueled almost enough for the workout i also have intra um so that and intra works perfectly if i start adding in like

bagels oats they just sit on my belly and you know you know probably too much information but at that time in the morning like my digestive system hasn't kind of gone through everything yet so loading it up at that time made me feel uncomfortable but a banana and whey

I'm done. Anna is perfect. Yeah, nice. And that's a... like what like a square of chocolate like how much chocolate are we talking about here yeah so 20 grams so um 30 grams away 100 grams of banana 20 grams of chocolate and then yeah that is it always digests perfectly it doesn't make me feel sick or bloated

And then in my intra, at the moment, I just have EAAs. I don't have any carb on those days, but I have like a different meal plan for training days where I'm not working, which has carb in my intra and oats beforehand. And that's because you train a little bit later. Got it. How late do you like to train on those days?

So if I like had the choice, so the days that I train on the weekend or when I'm not working, I always get to the gym at about half past 11, 12, just because I like to kind of get up, walk the dog. And then I have my pre like. not rushing it then the time i get changed to go to the gym it's normally about half as 11 12 come back at like two and still have the rest of the day do you find that your workouts are you can push harder on those days obviously

a hundred percent and i think yeah it's definitely it's definitely hard because those days you can kind of like you almost feel like your normal self i definitely do see a difference but i think the benefit of me having like a rolling split is that each session gets its time you know

each session gets the opportunity at some point to fall on a day where I'm not working. Whereas what I found with when I had this strict seven day split was that the same sessions were always when I was working and those sessions would always be a lower quality. But I guess, you know. It's pros and cons because there's more consistency that way. But equally, I kind of like the fact that I can kind of regulate them and each one have a different chance of having more time.

that's true that's a great advantage of that for you especially to go back for a second i'm just curious like what 70 dark chocolate so my my favorite is actually 85 i think like sometimes 90 is like a little bit a little bit too much I do obviously 70% taste good, but my like happy medium is 85. But yeah, I don't know. Lynn, Lynn 85 is the one.

i hear you with the 85 70 you have 20 grams and you you're craving for 30 or 40. yeah yeah okay so i'm not the only one all right that's good to know yeah 85 is where it's at for sure so for those tuning in if you're on that chocolate uh

wave then you just stick to the 85 it's just worth it long term right yeah i agree and you know i did go through a phase of having 90 i think one day i had 85 and i was like all right okay i think i want 85 and yeah 90 doesn't hit the spot it doesn't give you that same feeling i feel it's too bitter no yeah yeah for sure no 85 is is definitely the best love that um and uh for your goals like physique wise anything specific you're looking to bring up right now

Yeah, so obviously, you know, the You Get FBA show was the only time in my whole career I've been beaten. And it's kind of, it's one of those where it was the first opportunity for me. to see what was better and what people had that was better than what I had, which is why I'm very grateful now.

coming that place because it's allowed me to see potentially what my weaknesses were whereas obviously you know I'm never somebody that becomes complacent but when you do win and win win it's like you don't really know what you want in your physique to be better but From that Euclid BHO, the biggest standout factors for me was delts and then just density through my back and posterior. So upper back, I don't really have a lot going on there. And then also kind of like glute ham.

definitely needs to work as well and then aside from that just like general density but definitely like delts and upper back and then gluten ham is where the other two girls definitely had me so that's definitely been a big focus for me Are you putting certain movements exercises in at the beginning of the session to target those areas? Is that important?

To an extent, yes. I think before the 2023, I never really did like any heavy pulls, which obviously anybody knows like they are what's going to build a big back predominantly.

um yeah so i never had anything um i did do rdls um which i actually have now but um yeah i never really had any like big pulls like no big rows and things like that I also never really fully understood how to train my back like it sounds stupid but I never really knew and really understood back training whereas that's been a big focus of you know Monday Nature's goal this year it's just been to really kind of like

connect with my back which I think I have definitely learned so I'm excited to see you know if I look any different next time around but yeah it's the reason again where i've taken three years off is just to really give myself the best opportunity to come back and make those improvements especially as a natural you know you need the time for sure for sure have you trained with aj before like yeah

yeah yeah yeah a few times and um is that uh like were you able to get some tips on the back stuff back training was that helpful yeah so actually i think I've not actually trained pull with AJ. Yeah, I've trained legs. a few times and we train push um but a lot of the kind of feedback has been from sending video and form clips over also kind of my partner Ethan a lot of the times in the gym he'll like correct me and things like that because obviously quite a lot of the time it is very very

very small adjustments of like slight elbow positioning so it's been a combination of both of that and that's kind of helped and watching videos on the site watching other people train and stuff like that and they've all kind of contributed in their own way And the deadlifts, like how often are you doing those? Because those are very taxing recovery wise, given your job and everything we spoke about. So how do you program those in? Yeah, so we were originally, we started last year quite often.

quite a lot of time doing like dead of some floor but then after my last diet phase um which ended in october we've had in rdls and i was just doing one set every 10 days but my form wasn't really like the best and I couldn't really get into a good swing of them so I brought it up in a day and I just said like the only way I'm going to get better is if I do them more frequently so now I have them four times every 10 days so in two different sessions and two sets in each so that's where I kind of

The last few weeks I've noticed the difference in recovery is because my CNS has been a lot more challenged by doing so much more of that. But yeah, you know, I definitely think it will help. And they've improved massively already. And that's just... if i understood correctly so that's two sets per yes yeah twice yeah every 10 days got it so four sets total every 10 days yeah got it hard sets yeah yeah and that's just barbell romanian deadlift kind of thing yeah

yeah yeah kind of like pretty pretty stiff like a stiff rdl but yeah obviously it's like four times what i was doing before so it is a big difference i've noticed the difference but also kind of like they've improved exponentially so yeah like you're getting stronger yeah yeah and you're it's hard to say if you're

noticing any difference back there i guess you have to wait till you dye it down right yeah like i definitely sometimes like i definitely have noticed difference if i like film a set i'm like oh like i never had that definition there at this body weight before which is a good indication but obviously you just never fully know until you're dieting I'm quite hard on myself as well I never really see what other people see so I'll wait and then I'll see when when I'm fully lean

yeah yeah yeah no that makes sense yeah it's uh it's always harder when you have to usually wait especially as you get a little bit more advanced or you're entering those stages becomes a bit trickier right how far away from stage weight do you like to keep yourself so i'm currently 40 pounds above stage weight

which is yeah like it's a decent amount especially for a female um but for me like it's my sweet spot it's definitely where i feel my best i'm hormonally in the best place my recovery is in the best place and i'm definitely someone who doesn't really struggle with body image in that sense like I actually enjoy being heavier because for me

If my training performance is good, I feel good no matter what. And that's like a definitely big kind of like thing for me is if things are going well in the gym, I don't really mind how I look outside the gym. So yeah, about 40 pounds above at the moment. And if I wanted to pull it off, I could easily pull it off.

wanted to go up i could easily go up my body is is very very good at just changing when it needs to so it's not like i would struggle to come back down when i need to come back down right right and what do you compete at what's your stage weight So my last one was £117 and I'm about £155 now. Okay. How tall are you? Five foot four.

Okay, so just for the listeners who maybe are getting into this, I'm sure they'll be curious. I do it for the men, so why wouldn't I do it for... for the women as well so i think that's fair because i don't know how i don't know the standards right for women so this is i'm also learning as well because you're to be fair the second person i've spoken to right after vicky yeah so

um but okay really cool and i'm trying to think did we before we dive into this last bit here with your we talked about that right you want your goal is to be a world champion oh contest goals for 2026. Let's do that. Let's talk about that. What's the goal for 2026 for you?

Yeah, I mean, obviously, it's a bit of a strange one, because obviously, I got my pro card in 2023. And you know, a lot of people would potentially expect like just to go straight into a pro show. But if I had to make the decision right now, I think I definitely I'm not finished with amateur figure and I think for me that is partly because you know

I didn't win that UKFBA show. And a big goal of mine is still to win that title before I then kind of commit myself to the pro leagues. And I think for me, you know. At the moment, there still isn't as many opportunities for pro figure as there is for amateur figure. And I think at this point in time...

can imagine I will go still and do some amateur shows before going into the pro shows. But I guess, you know, my overall goal for 2026 is to do an international show because I've never done an international show and I will...

compete as a pro in 2026 whether that is at the start or at the end i don't know yet an international show is definitely definitely on the cards that's definitely my biggest that is the one thing that i want because um yeah i've never competed internationally and i think it's definitely about time

Yeah, yeah. And do you think the States might be where it's at for you? Potentially. But, you know, even European shows, for me, like AMBF and things like that, the standard at those is pretty much amongst the best in the world. And I think, you know. Definitely would like to do a show in Europe, whatever that may be, you know, like the Evo show and things like that. They are all such incredible shows. That would be really awesome to kind of be a part of.

Obviously, you know, the MBW show as well. I'd love to compete at that. Obviously, I know that's going to be a huge success this year. So to be honest, I'm very much like I'm not really a planner. I will just kind of. go where the season takes me. Yeah. I mean, I'd like to compete in America if it works out, but I would also be happy competing in Europe as well. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. And also I think, well, you caught the episode with AJ, like at least with the AMBF, you know that if you go there.

the lighting will be something that's not a problem for the most part, right? And when you're traveling internationally and you're spending money and you want to compete at an event that's challenging, you want to make sure that the lighting's on point too, right? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, for sure.

how crazy would that be you flew all the way to the states and then you competed and it was like the lighting was just horrendous or something right so from the stories i'm hearing just not not good something that needs to definitely get addressed but um Was there anything else we wanted to touch on before we end this off? I feel like we touched on a lot of great things. Anything you want to end off with specifically that maybe we missed or do you think we got enough?

I guess probably the only real thing kind of that I would just to death like say and you know like tell people is I think a big part of like me with like natural bodybuilding is just showing like what is possible alongside like a normal job that isn't associated with it.

fitness industry and I think you know a lot of people potentially are thinking you know I can't do x y and z because I'm not a fitness coach or whatever and one of my personal goals is to show people that you can do it no matter what your life looks like outside of this sport so yeah I think for me that is also a huge thing it's just spread awareness of you know you can do

both things you can be passionate about more than one thing um and yeah you know I love to see other people that that do similar things get into it and I know that's definitely people that I've kind of spoke with things that they love to see it and love to see someone doing it

That's true. You know, we could have dove into that more. Obviously, we only have so much time. I want to be respectful of your time as well. But that's a great point. Like, it's very inspiring what you're doing. You're working this job that you love, right? It's a vet. And five days per week?

between four and five yeah it changes it changes but it's like it's not a traditional job that most competitors will have obviously there's exceptions right and to be fair there's some like Philip Ricardo Jr for those tuning in you already know like

Kiyoshi Muri, they don't work in the fitness industry per se. They have jobs like you. So this is inspiring that you're going to be... now looked at as a role model right for the next generation rolling through that doesn't know that this is possible and they think oh i have to be a coach or i have to be a personal trainer no you don't you don't you can follow your passion and have two different passions and still

be at the highest level of competition, which is your goal and what you're doing now. So that's amazing, very inspiring stuff. And thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show. And if...

Anyone wants to get in touch with you? Obviously, you're booming on Instagram, by the way, which is really cool to see. We got like 16,000 followers or something like that, right? Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Anything specifically other than what we talked about that you want to do with that? Like, are you... Do you want to do more than you're doing now or do you find like this is the perfect balance?

yeah I mean honestly like I would love to do more but for me it's very like organic like I just want it to not be forced I want to just show myself show the realities of you know like day to day ultimately like I don't have excessive

months of spare time so it is just a platform for me to just share what I love at my own pace and I'm happy with that you know I'm not striving to get x amount of followers it doesn't really I don't really care um but yeah for me it's just yeah showing showing what I love to do on a daily basis I love that. That's wonderful and perfect. Well, thank you so much for tuning in. We're going to link your Instagram in the show notes. Is there anywhere else that people should go to to find your work?

No, just I guess, you know, if anybody is on the MBW site, I do write my daily log so you can kind of see more about me and about, you know, my day to day habits on there. But yeah, there on Instagram is where you'll find me primarily. Perfect. And you already know for everyone tuning in, thank you so much. We appreciate you as always. And we're going to link all of that into the show notes, MBW, Zina's personal Instagram account. Give her a follow. She's posting training footage. And of course,

just kind of keeping up to date with her journey, right? With her competitive journey. And also check out the MBW Instagram account as well. Links will be in the show notes to all that. So thank you so much. And Xena, thank you once again. This was a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on. Honestly, it's an absolute honour.

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