¶ Real-Life Stories of American Prison Experiences
Welcome to Lockdown the Legacy stories from the inside out . I'm your host , remy Jones .
And I'm co-host Debbie Jones . We are a husband and wife team here to bring you the real life stories , experiences and questions around the American criminal justice system . We do advise discretion with this podcast . I think we should put that out there first and foremost .
Yes , we are going to talk about experiences that happen inside the prison system , outside of prison systems . We will use language that might be offensive , but we intend to keep it real . And if that's not for you , we totally understand , but please do what's best for your listening ears .
Oh , we're about to keep it real , son . Our goal of this podcast is to share the inside realities of the American prison and criminal justice system , from pre-charges all the way to post-release , from the voices of those who've experienced it firsthand , including me .
That's right , we're going to get into it .
Hello , this is a prepaid debit call from or an inmate at the Graffin Correctional Institution . To accept this call , press zero To refuse this call . Hang up or press one To prevent calls from this facility . Press nine . Thank you for using GTL . What's up , brother ? What's ?
going on , bro . How are you ? I'm doing good . What's going on , ain't that much man Just sitting here chilling , enjoying some quiet man . My wife and kids are gone .
Oh , okay , and how are you enjoying your quiet ?
I'm just simply enjoying it . I ain't doing nothing special .
Where'd they go .
They only going to be gone for like 45 minutes . Man , they're taking real-ity piano practice .
Oh okay , Is she any good ?
Yeah , she's definitely . This is her second year doing it . She's definitely improved . She could kind of play by ear now , which is pretty cool , wow , yeah .
It's crazy because I remember my father put me on piano . He asked me did I want to play the piano ? Once I saw my piano teacher , I was definitely involved in it until I found out she was married and she didn't like 13-year-olds . Yeah , I lost interest in that real quick . I lost interest in that really really quick .
So yeah , I don't know what it was about us , thought we was some young Casanovas man . I know , I know what you mean . You're on like 13-year-olds .
The crazy part about it was I should have been a matchmaker because I was great at talking to other females like my dudes . They'd say , hey , man , I like her , go talk to her . Man what , I'd go over there and talk her up and bring her on over for myself . I got all the time kind I don't know what it was about talking for myself .
That kind of knocked the confidence out of me but and so I was more like I was a little more reluctant to go myself than going to talk to somebody else . I eventually overcame that but yeah , that was an issue for me .
It's funny though , I was like the same way Even . Still , even after I overcame it , I was still kind of shy . I ain't letting nobody know it for real , but before I would go and talk to a girl , I would have to construct some type of situation that would make us talk to .
I couldn't just walk up to them , right , and so I was in that situation that I done constructed . I would seem like the most confident dude ever . I would seem arrogant even . I'd be like , damn , he's such a ladies man . I'd be like you don't even know . I plotted on this for like two hours , trying to figure out how I can bump into her at the waterfront .
Yeah , absolutely .
And I can say it was just , it was just strange when you think about it , because most of us , when we think back on ourselves , we're like man , I was the smoothest , coolest . And then you hear to my nails . I'm like nah , you was a big clumsy and I just felt sorry for you because you were just all over the place .
I'm like no , no , no , I'm not to that night . No , you really wasn't . But , like I said , when I look back on myself , I knew that there were certain areas that I had confidence . I never had problems talking to females . It was just . There was just the ones that I really liked .
It was like oh , man , it's like it was more and more at stake on my behalf than someone else's , and so someone else , I'm like I can't lose , but with me I'm like he's going to become a fool . But I didn't wear that . I know you like the most people . They're like no , he was kind of confident when it came to who he thought he was .
But inside I always tell people I'm like that duck on the surface I'm smooth as hell . I'm underneath I'm kicking like a mug .
That makes sense , man . I tell man , people used to hear stories about me , man , they'd be like oh , he was such a ladies man , he was a pretty boy . I was like dude , I was quiet , I was shy , and people thought that because I was quiet I was arrogant . But they'd be like no , no , I remember when you did this yeah , I did . I mean .
You know , I eventually just developed this whole mentality Like if I fail , I fail Fuck it . I ain't got to see her again . Yeah , yeah .
But do you ever find it different when you're , when you live one place , the way you act , and just opposed to you live another ?
So what I mean by that is like when I lived in war I was under my father's rule and because I was that way , I didn't , I wasn't really out there , I wasn't really going to parties , I wasn't really involved with too many things .
My father was go to school and bring your ass home , and that was basically I had to get find the girls in between , but so there wasn't really that many . But when I went out to California , on the other hand , I was under my mother's rule and my mother only had one requirement go to school .
So anything I did in between was my time , and by that time I was a little bit more confident . I started gang banging . I was making a little bit more and more and more money . I actually got a car , and so my confidence level was like through the roof what I was in California as opposed to what I was in war .
And so at that time I was thinking like , and there's no way I'm not going to get a female when I talk to her . That didn't cross my mind that I was going to get turned out and therefore I had .
I had a different mentality when it came to women as opposed to when I was in war , and I'm just like , I'm just glad they smile at me or or even like me . I was just grateful for that because I didn't have that much time to get really get involved in it .
Do you feel because you lived in two different cities , do you feel that there was moments where in this city , you was ?
So you are now opposed to ?
you was a little bit more shy in other cities .
It was like the same exact way as far as like Virginia and Ohio go , because Ohio was with my mom . Same exact scenario . So I was just wild and free . But I also had a benefit of having older siblings . You know , in Virginia I was the oldest , I was the oldest of the house , right , but in Ohio I'm the youngest .
So now they be like oh , you so much , so little , brother , I done got a whole like back jacket of just solid ass shit from stuff that my sisters and brothers did . Right , they be like oh , don't fuck with him , man , his people crazy . They show up , you know , 40 deep to a one on one fight , like I would .
It had been times where people didn't call day people to come jump in , and eight people are people . So they like , no , I can't do that , and they walk over on our side . You know . So , just because I had that , people's like oh , yeah , I know , yeah , yeah , yeah . And then all of a sudden it was like I'm already in .
Anything after that was like I said right , they just didn't know who I was or what I was capable of , but they know the stock that I came from , you know , no , no .
How much differently do you see women now as compared to back ?
You know , I never even thought of that man , Because I don't look at women anymore for real .
As far as like what I'm looking for , I got what I'm looking for , I'm not talking about as far as , like , I told someone recently that the problem that I think a lot of us men have is we don't know how to see women as people .
So when we think about women , we think of them in a certain regard of how do I feel about you , how do I see you and how can you give me some kind of benefit , of pleasure or reward ? Never just as someone equal to my life .
Oh yeah , and that's what I'm thinking about , like , when I say when you look at women nowadays compared to back then , because back then they were just pussy or something that we can get to give us some kind of satisfaction or boost our ego to say it's like that kind of female I normally mess with . So that must make me a hell of a dude .
So , basically , you know , I see women as I see everybody now and you kind of write like back then it was all like if it's some girls there , shit , they don't live there for one reason , you know , right , you know if we was going to a party and it was some girls there , them girls ain't kicking it like we kicking it , them girls sitting there waiting on
us to pick one of them or they pick one of us , and it is what it is . So , yeah , it is interesting though , that , like , I still got female friends , you know most notably which you know about Mickey . But yeah , even that relationship , you know , I've known her since I was . We've been close friends since I was like 14 .
But even that relationship has changed because of my maturity level .
Yeah . So when I look at women nowadays , it was . It was different . It's different now than what it was before and I'm going to tell you what made the difference .
¶ Lessons Learned
I got my heart broke and I remember when it was happening . I think I've told you this and I've told Christine numerous times . I always thought women were exaggerating when they say you hurt me , you broke my heart , my heart . I'm like it can't be that bad . I mean damn , I don't want you anymore . I cheated on you .
It was bad , but you know it's something you will get over . It can't be as horrible as you making it seem You're over , dramatizing . And then I got my heart broke and that shit hurt . I mean like a physical pain , like it's like big down into you and when you wake up is there . When you go to sleep , is there . That stuff was so bad .
I went to the hospital about it and I remember landing the bed like I can't believe a female to put me in a hospital . I mean like seriously hurt . And I remember telling myself that if this is what I've caused women to feel in the past , I'm sorry and I said I would never make another person feel the extent of what I felt .
So I had to start looking at women differently . I had to start seeing them in a way that , with the understanding that their very life , their thoughts , their feelings , their their wants , their desires , their hurt , is equivalent to mine . And if I couldn't see them in that manner , then it wasn't them that was fucked up , it was me .
And I didn't want to be fucked up . I had to find ways to catch up with that , that understanding , that maturity . But mine came to pain and to feel that level of hurt and know that you caused another human pain , to feel that I didn't want to be that person .
And so that's what started my journey on learning to see that , the knowledge that women is equal to men . It's not that they're equal to men , it's that their life is equivalent to our own . And with that understanding , with the thought about hurting them , you start to have empathy towards them , you start to have compassion .
These are traits of a mature character , and to be able to exhibit that not only outside of a relationship but also inside of a relationship , it helps her understand that you're safe enough to be with me , because I see you , I feel you , I understand you , I am you , I'm with you .
So we'd agree that she has no problem just giving her complete self to you , and you're giving it and allowing you to give your complete self to her .
I got something I'm not going to tell you , so I had just seen this on , I don't know , probably Facebook or something right , and I sent it to Debbie , you know it says a great partner brings out the best in you .
And it has a red strike through the best in you and it says the reality is a great partner will still bring out your triggers , wounds from the past , fears , insecurities and limiting beliefs .
But a secure , healthy relationship , I mean but a secure , healthy partnership will provide you with a safe space to work through those things and become the best version of yourself .
Yes , yes , yes , we will .
So I was like damn , when I seen that and this was just like earlier today that I seen this and sent it to her I was like damn , that's deep . You know , because of course you know I'm married . We fight , you know we have disagreements . We have those weird moments where it's like what the fuck would you do that you know where ?
But it's like you know it's not supposed to be perfect . Even in marriage it's not supposed to be like you should have known . It's like damn , like she having a bad day or she's supposed to tip toe around me because she having a bad day , Like it's supposed to be .
Like hey , just taking a stride , be understanding , come back at a later moment and be like , hey , listen , this is why this was the way it was , you know . And then find some understanding because , just like I could have a bad day and be mad and want some you know distance , she can . Or even my kids , you know they entitled that too .
That was absolutely that was there . It's weird Like this . This wasn't even supposed to be the topic of the conversation , man , but I know this ended up being something . I seen earlier and then just randomly , organically turned into that conversation . That's , that's cool .
This is one of the things I learned . This is one of the greatest lessons I learned because , again , the relationship that I was in it tore me up . But it woke me up . You know they say they said one of the one of those things that the brand learns fastest off this pain .
And when I went through what I went through with this woman and it just , it , just it ripped me up because I never saw a comment , Like you know , some people , you see the red , the red flags like yeah , I know they're capable with her . I never saw a coming and when it came out I would be completely blindsided .
But I gained a lot of insight from that pain that I experienced from her and one of the greatest lessons that I learned to look to , the greater lesson I learned was , first of all , love wasn't the problem , it was the person I gave it to . That was the first one .
My love that I had was still valuable , was still worthy , it was still everything I believed it to be . But put in the hands of the wrong person , they can do nothing other than abuse it , because they don't even understand what they're receiving from me .
That was the first one , but the second lesson I learned was there's no such thing as being in a relationship . You know we use these terms . I'm in a relationship with this person , or me and this person . We're with each other . I come to understand that you and the other person are the relationship . There's no being in a relationship .
You are the relationship . So if you want a healthy relationship , you have to be with a healthy person . If you were with an unhealthy person , the only thing the relationship to be is unhealthy because it's unbalanced .
And once I gain that , to understand that the health of my relationship is directly related to the person who I'm in a relationship or I have this bond with , it revolutionized my way of thinking .
That's dope because , it always goes back to that old cliche where it's like you gotta not rush into another relationship , you gotta work on . You Like if you are the relationship , then you gotta be healthy . You gotta find somebody else healthy , or at least find somebody that's close enough with aligning goals that y'all can work towards something together .
But a lot of people be out here just trying to get their body count up for real , like I gotta be in a relationship . Damn , look they cute , let me go over here . They do no research . They take no time in the courtship process . Next thing you know they like damn , how could they do me like that ?
Like you should have seen that that's the type of person they are .
Yeah , because when you really think about it , think about it like this , and this is something I have put into the second book that I'm writing . I say you have two kind of people . You have an immature person and a mature person . Now , immature person traits are selfishness and consideration , lack of compassion , without empathy .
They have all the things that centered around themselves . A mature person has selflessness , compassion , empathy , consideration . Every relationship is going to be tested through something . I don't care how great you want a person is , every relationship is going to be tested by something .
When that test comes , when the turbulent times come , when the growing pains come , who would you have more faith in overcoming them ? A person that's going to handle each of these bad situations with selfishness in consideration , lack of compassion or without empathy ? Or a person that has all the mature traits that handle the situation ?
And when I thought about that , I said I want a person that's mature enough to deal with me when I am being an asshole , deal with me when I'm not always on my best , see me when I'm having my weaker , vulnerable moment .
Or I'm able to see her when I am tempted by a big old butt that I'm like oh man , she said , I can give you everything you want without any attachments to it . Or see me when you're telling me something that matters to you and I'm like , yeah , but I really want this .
My maturity says but it's no longer just about you anymore , it's about both of you now , because the things that you do not only affects your life , but it affects hers as well . The person who's mature and healthy is going to be the one that deals with the situation , these natural growing pains in a relationship .
They're the ones who are going to deal with it . With a mature trait , the person that's immature and is not healthy , they're going to deal with it in an immature and unhealthy way , and that's why I say the relationship is you and that person .
Christine and I have a saying , because when we was first involved , I used to always ask myself something whenever she and I got an argument , and what I would ask myself is are you done ? Because if I'm not done , get back in there . But I told her , I said we're past the point of asking ourselves are we done ? We only have three options .
If we're in a situation that either she doesn't get or I don't get , our first option is we wait for the other person to catch up with understanding . Our second option is , if that person don't get it , you go back and you wait for them , and you wait until they're ready to move , not when you want them to move .
And the last option is to carry each other . But there's never an option of I'm so far ahead of you , I just leave you . And that's what happened with a lot of the person . When they outgrow each other and outpace each other , you can't outpace your partner . You supposed to walk with your partner .
You supposed to stop when your partner needs to stop , but they're supposed to do the same thing for you . But it's always an understanding that every single thing we're working through a common purpose of us . It's not just me anymore , it's a common purpose of us .
So many people get in these relationships where they're partners to a moment and then , out of a sudden , when something turbulent happened or something that they don't like , they automatically turn single again and then , when everything good , they turn back into a couple . You can't turn into a single . You can't turn single in the middle of it .
You're always a couple .
Yeah , and I've seen people you know to type breakup makeup , breakup makeup . They hadn't done it 10 times , been together 20 years . And I've even seen people that are married get a divorce and get remarried , Like what the fuck was y'all thinking ? Yeah , I think , maya Angel has dated the .
Go ahead , no , no you go ahead , I think , maya . Angel said it the best ? Well , I think it was Maya Angelou when she said love , love does not hurt . And I know we get this misconception that love hurt because we've been hurt by people whom we loved or whom we love . But love doesn't hurt .
One of the things I understand is a common trait of every single love that I've ever read about , experience or understood Love always worked to the benefit of the one receiving it . I'm never seeing love work against you . So when people say I love you but I hurt you , I love you but I can cheat on you . I love you but I can disrespect you .
I love you but I can abuse you , that ain't love . It's not love scripturally , it's not love spiritually , it's not love philosophically , it's not love in any realm of understanding . But we relegate love to this thing that is trying to destroy us and is why we're so fearful of it . But love is a beautiful thing .
But see , that comes from people thinking they possess you when they love you .
I know Love doesn't want to possess you Right .
That's what it comes from , though it's like I love you , so you're mine and nobody can have you . So as soon as somebody shows interest , I'm going to hurt you , because I can't hurt them , you know .
Yeah .
And that's real unhealthy .
That ain't love that's something else and that's why I say when I got hurt by that woman , I was thinking that love did that . You know , love was the cause of me hurt . I was so stupid and I don't know why I gave into it . But what I really thought about , I said love didn't do that .
She did that and she had a whole bunch of issues of why she did that , and some of it I can blame on myself . It wasn't all her , I know , I was definitely a part of that . But it was like I began to look at love in a different way .
I'm going to say , as I started researching , I started learning , I started reading scriptures and I started reading Eastern philosophies and I started reading self-help books and relationships . I'm reading all this stuff and they're all saying the exact same thing Love is life . Life doesn't kill .
Life can only produce and add , which means love can never be harmful to me . It can only add and produce something beautiful inside of me . And if I give my love to someone else , it can never harm them . It can only add and produce something beautiful inside of them .
You know what ? I learned from getting hurt man , because I had the same . I ain't going to say the same , but I had a similar experience where I consider myself to be
¶ Understanding Love and Growth
. At one point I was like a fucked up dude , right . And then I found a girl that I love and I was like , oh man , this is good . I got to give more right , so now I'm all in . I then went from the fucking mentality like I'm all in and then I got hurt , so now it was a pride thing . I didn't really for real . I'm serious .
I'm really like hurt and stuff . I did . I ain't going to lie , I cried , but for the most part I was like man , how the fuck I let this happen ? I'm supposed to like I'm out here in the streets , I'm supposed to see it coming , I know when somebody trying to finesse me , you know .
So I got so mad that I just started doing women bad like the worst I could . Man , if you go back to some of my previous relationships , like right before I got locked up , I mean , they'll tell you like I had some crazy things that I would say like you know , a woman get to question you and stuff .
I would sit there with a calm , straight face and be like you'll get over that . Yeah , and it was like you , so mad and full of emotion and stuff you like you want . You so mad , you want them to respond and they like me , you'll get over that . You like this motherfucker man . No , he did . You know I would . I would say so much crazy stuff like that .
But it wasn't until I got to prison a few years into it where I started developing this change in growth . I actually wrote some of these girls girls that I dated , girls that I just messed around with , girls that I dog , that really was like down for me , and I wrote them and I apologized and everything . And it was this one girl man .
She wrote me back and she was like once again , I'm sitting here and I developed a little bit of tenderness and they go and shoot it right out of me . You know , she was like man , you sound soft as hell right now . I was like I had to put the letter down and couldn't even read no more after that , like whoa , hold the fuck on . You know .
But she had explained in it , though she was like listen , man , you ain't do nothing to me , that I ain't let you do . That's what I was into back then . And so I was like damn , and I actually gave somebody else that advice later on because I was like that's some dope ass shit that a person can admit that you know .
But as I grew and grew and grew , I started applying all these things that I , you know advice I got from this place or that place , or advice that I gave for this situation and that situation I started applying it to like everything .
You know , one of the biggest things that I always say I forgot where I heard it , but it's like the first mistake is to think that the whole world sees things the way you do . And so at first I was like I use that as a way to calm my spirit and not get mad when people do certain shit , cause I was like they don't see the world the way I do .
I can't respond and expect them to do stuff a certain way . But then I started applying it to like relationships , not only the way that you act in a relationship , but the way you love in a relationship , like Debbie asked me one time . She was like do you think I love you more than you love me ?
And you know I'd just be on some like I'd be too philosophical . Sometimes you just want basic ass answer and I don't want offensive bullshit . And I was like , probably in some ways she was like what does that mean ? And I'm like this goes back to also saying like I trust , I don't trust . You know , I don't mist , distrust anybody .
I trust everybody to do us in their best interest . It's the same thing . It's like I know that you love me and this is how you love , but it's not how I love . So to expect you to love me more than I love you , but we love in different ways is something that's it's immeasurable , right ?
It's like saying hey , man , I got 20 strawberries , you've got 10 apples . Who got more ? Like , who got more ? What ? We talking about different shit ?
You have one minute remaining .
So I started looking at the whole world like that man . You can't expect everything to be clear black and white . Love is love , like I'm a lover through service , you know . But there are people who are lovers . You know words of affirmation , you know all different types of ways physical touch .
So to be like man , you don't love me because you don't tell me enough , or you don't love me because you don't do nothing for me , like that's not my language . So I learned all that through hurt and growth and hurt and growth , you know .
Yeah , that's the way a lot of us learn . I want to push back on something that you just said , but I'm going to call you back , all right .
Yeah , that's fine . Thank you for using GTL , okay .
So what I said before is that once I went through this experience with this woman , I started reading everything , anything on love , anything on relationship I could possibly read .
And I have once read this book by Deepak Chopra and it was called the Way of the Wizard , and he had put up a concept up there that was hard for me to grasp and what he said was it was a story between author and that's a lot , I think .
And he was saying last night look , you can love whoever you choose to love , and with Arthur , basically he said between , he was three women , he was a woman , he was an old woman , a young woman and a child , and it was Merlin , Arthur . And Merlin told him this he said the love that you have for your mother , your wife and your child are all the same .
Now that was hard for me to grasp . I'm like there's no way possible that the love that you have for my mother is the same love I would have for my whole body , which is the same love I would have for my child . And what he said was the source is the same , the expression is different .
And that kind of started leading me down this path to understand this about love . I don't believe and this is my opinion , I don't believe that love can grow at all . I don't think it can be added to . The only thing that can be added to is our understanding of it , Because with our understanding comes depth of meaning , depth of value and depth of worth .
When the love that we had when we were a teenager , nothing was added into it , we wasn't poured into it , but our understanding of it has grown . So when you're talking about the different ways of love is expressed or through service or any of the other love language that's only one level . But when you get to deeper levels of it , you understand .
It's all the same . It's just how you express it and how it's being received . But most of the times we receive love through pain , Pain of our experiences , pains of hurts in the past , pains of how it was denied to us , pains of how it was rejected in us . These are the ways that we receive it , but the source of it is all the same . It's just .
Our understanding is only at a certain level , to where we can only perceive it in one way , and usually it's through pain . But as we begin to grow and mature , we begin to let go of a lot of that pain , you start seeing that love is just love . It has no degrees , it has no dimensions , it has no levels to it , it just is .
And that's when you start understanding the love of yourself , which you can extend to the love of someone else . That's why it's always something that works to the benefit of whoever is to receive it . That's what I've come to understand and that's my belief on it , and that's been my experience .
The more that I'm able to let go of what happened to me when I was younger or with this woman put me through , and the hurt that I had , the rejections that I got , the more I let go of a lot of that stuff . I start seeing this in every single thing that I'm doing and all the people that I'm involved with , and it just changing my perception on life .
But nothing was added to me , Nothing was poured into me . I just have a better understanding of it to uncover more . But it's all in me . The same way , it's all in you .
So I got a question now and this is kind of I don't know . It is what it is . So what do you think ? Do you think there is a difference in expression between love out here and love in there ?
I don't .
Now I'm not talking about , on a personal level , like you know , your relationship . I'm talking about , like the average relationship that you come across in there , because I know when I was in there , relationships were , initially at least , for the purpose of gain . It was all about what can you do for me ?
You know , even when I would like , like I did the pen pal thing , even when I would tell him , like yo , I'm not looking for no money , like I'm not one of them dudes trying to finesse you out , or nothing , it was still a relationship of what can you do for me ? Like you're going to send these letters , you're going to do some visits , you know ?
Like are you going to be the companion I need you to be , you know .
¶ Prison Relationships and Emotional Intelligence
And the reason why I say I don't think there's a difference is because I think all relationships starts off that way . I think all relationships starts off of what can you do for me ? I think they all starts off that way , whereas people in prison get a more negative stereotype because we're thinking more financial , like how can you help my day go easier .
But I think every relationship out there , when a man meets a woman or a woman meets a man , that initial thought is selfish , like what can you do for me ? What pleasure can you give me ? What joy can you give me ? What can you add to my life ? How can you make me better ? How can you make me feel better ?
I think that is the initial perception of all relationships when they begin . But again , I told you , nothing is added , just understanding . So the more you begin to understand this person , the more you understand that this person , you and this person click , the more you get to know about this other person .
Then this is what we call the deepening of feelings , and I believe feelings can be deepened in here as well as out there . Oh for sure , I don't think it initially starts off that way .
I think and well , I guess you're right it's the same everywhere , man . It's the same in there and out here , because the service love is about service . Really , the service is different what you're looking for .
So I'll hear initially , before you fall in love with this person , it's like oh , he bought me flowers , he opened the door for me , he introduced me to his friends , he posted me on social media . It's all about how he's making her feel he got his own set of priorities , what she does that makes him feel good . It's the same thing in there .
It's like yo , when I call , are you going to answer when I write , are you going to write back ? Are you going to stick around or are you going to be going in like two months ? It's the same thing . Even if it initially is about one thing or the other , what it mainly is about is security . You're looking for consistency , security within this relationship .
As time goes on and your understanding grows , not the love your expression of the love changes Right , dropped a mic .
But going back to what we initially started talking about with women don't get me wrong and you and I can both agree on this . The majority of individuals in the prison relationship is superficial . Now all of them , but a lot of them are . We understand men in prison understand that most women that we get involved with in prison we're on a time , a timer .
We know most times that relationship won't last . It's gonna last between 90 and six , 90 days and six months . If you don't do anything within 90 days or six months to make her reinvesting you , you're probably gonna lose her . And most of us don't believe we can hold a woman that long .
So you get as much as you can and then when she's gone , you're like , hey , it was the waste of my time , I can go back in the pond and get some more . That's the normal turnover rate . And women are the same way .
They get involved with men in prison because we make them feel good , we make them remember how beautiful and how lovely they are and that they're appreciated and they're women and they're desired and wanted .
And then , once they get that again , then they find someone that says , yeah , you are all of that , and then they'll leave us disappear for a while and then they come back when they need to feel that again . That's usually the cycle .
Yeah , they come back and be fixed up again . They come back to get fixed up again , you know , oh , he broke my heart .
Yeah , they come back to get fixed up again , right , and then the cycle just repeats itself and we're not gonna turn them down because sometimes we just desperate and we want that need and they cut . They always cut the embarrassing gifts , visits and all the other stuff .
So that's the normal cycle of prison relationships from both sides the men side and the women's side . But there are occasions where the man will see the woman as a person and the woman will see a man as a person , not as a criminal , not as someone who needs me , but that he still is somebody .
He's someone that still deserve to be loved , even though he's in there . They still deserve to be , to have had his dreams believed in and to have that confidence that I know that you're changing , you become a better person , and he is someone that says it doesn't matter what you look like or what you have .
I love you , the woman , the person , and I'm willing to stand up and be solid with you all the way through this , both in here and out here .
So that does happen and you know . But that actually did happen and that was my most valuable relationship in there . Outside , of course you know the girl I was dating still . You remember the girl I had pen pal with from Australia .
I thought you was about to say banana . I'm like you . Better not say banana .
Oh , no , no , no , no no . But the girl from Australia the girl from Australia , natasha she's . She had reached out to me . Oh wait , no , that's that's when I was out in the camp , my bad . So she reached out to me just because she had seen a documentary about inmates in prison in the US .
And she was like , well , I got to talk to somebody that's in this situation . And she was like I just picked the first person I seen and it was you . And I was like all right , I can respect that . And we talked and it was like never anything romantic , it was never anything sexual . She never bought me a single thing .
She ain't even like buy me no prepaid stamps , like it was really just a friendship , like she seen me for a person . At first it was just out of pure curiosity , but we ended up .
We ended up helping each other through some tough shit , you know , and I still talk to her and stuff and I still you know we Facebook friends and all the rest and she invited me out there . You know it's just some little legal trouble . You know they not too fell in friendly with welcoming people over the borders .
But yeah , it's like when you find that person that actually sees you as a person , you get so caught up in everybody seeing you as inmate , criminal , what your case is and everything else , that you put up them defenses . You know the same way women get cheated on or whatever , and they put up their defenses .
That's how you are in there , like man , you put on that tough demeanor , even when you trying to get tender and emotional connection with somebody , at first you like I got to be hard , I got to be . You know this person and that person put on some facade .
But when you find that relationship , that person , that , even if it's a staff member , that staff member that treats you like a person , you like , damn right , you know , and it's always the dudes in there that fuck it up , man , the creep ass , dudes that like , oh , she filled me , she filling me . Like no , mother fucker , she just treated you like a person .
Calm down , right .
Right and we see , when we see them , often we're like why did you met ? I could have told you , but it happened , and I think I think that's something else that I had to learn with Christine . I believe that in the process of maturity , we all go through our seasons .
I believe we go through a spiritual season , I believe we go through a physical season , and a physical season is when we learn to love and accept ourselves , our physical form as it is , both in our best state as well as in our weakened state .
And I believe we go through a mental stage and I believe all three of these , these these seasons , a man can shepherd us through . But when we go through an emotional maturity season , I believe that's something only women can teach .
A woman can teach a man , and the only reason why I say that is because women have a better understanding of how to express , treat and heal emotionally . And a lot of times we men , they say we're afraid of emotions and we don't know how to be emotional and we all heart . Part of it of that may be true , but another part is we are emotionally inept .
We don't know how to deal with emotion . We know how to do it anger , we don't know how to do it . Rage we know how to deal with being hurt in a superficial way , but no one has really educated us on how to deal with life from an emotional standpoint . I was reading this book called Emotional Intelligence .
They were saying how differently young girls are taught about emotions and how to express them and give them their , give them , give them its room to grow and develop and become stronger and more more skilled at using them , and how boys are not taught that you know other than anger and how you know we post channels in different ways .
And so women , women .
But you have to be a mature woman . A mature woman can help a man become emotionally intelligent , to become emotionally mature , to be that individual that can be in a healthy relationship with her or can be that healthy relationship with her . But unless someone teaches us that , it's like it's like us trying to learn sex .
We learn sex through pornography and through experience . If you worked on three girls , we're going to try it on the fourth one . So it's the same thing . We have to learn how to become emotionally mature and emotionally intelligent with these women that we're in a relationship with .
But here's the problem A lot of women are emotionally immature and because they're emotionally immature and we're emotionally immature , the writing is on the wall . When we're involved with each other , we're going to have just this messy , convoluted , aggressively combative feelings with each other and it's going to look how most relationships look out there .
But I still believe that there's still a lot of strong , powerful , emotionally mature and intelligent women out there . But I know they're just tired of dealing with men who just don't have it . I know they have to be tired . I think that's part of the reason why I feel disappointed by women , because a guy once said that women are the last line of defense .
Men have already abandoned their posts , but the women are the last line of defense to keep us safe and a lot of them are walking away . You know what ? I ain't being a purifying by myself . I'm going to live my life the same way he live in his life , and I never thought I would do that , but it seems like that's what they're doing .
I know there's still a lot of them up on that wall still defending , still fighting for families , still fighting for love , still fighting for the integrity of us men in our hearts . But there's a lot of women like , please , he ain't up here , I ain't going to be up here . And they just walked away .
Just walked away and it's sad and I know a lot of us are men's fault , but I never thought that women would walk away . I don't think a lot of us men thought they would walk away and it was like you walked away , I can't walk away .
But you , a woman , you know you strong , you want to stay up there while I'm doing my thing and like , nah , you get your ass back up there , then I'll get back up there .
I think a little bit of that is
¶ Social Media's Impact on Relationships
. There's a social aspect to it . Like the world is more connected , information is more easily shared , right ? So stuff that used to be private matters is not private no more . You put all the dirty laundry on .
You know the internet , and so your relationship and your capacity to work through a relationship is heavily diminished by all the other bullshit you see out there because you let me bullshit weigh on you and you like I'm tired of these niggas . Like what are you talking about ?
You know you tired of these niggas because three girls on Instagram said that they do was was treating them bad . And you like and I know he out here doing so soon as something happened , you already bring in all this outside information in the old relationship . You know like it . You know how it used to be like when with our grandparents it was like shit .
Our relationship was our relationship . You don't even talk about it with the kids . We go and we go stick together , we go work it out behind those doors , you know . But now it's like people fighting in the street throwing bricks through your windshield . You know going on Facebook , instagram , doing public stuff . Girl , I can't believe he did this .
What y'all think and you trying to get the opinion of 13,000 people that you don't even know , but you got them as friends .
You know , let me , let me ask you this how many women do you believe have actually been in the presence of and was a relationship with mature man ?
I don't know .
I mean it goes to .
You know , everybody's at a different level . So with me , when I think of a mature man , I think of you . Have people that have already developed and you have people who are developing . Then you have people that they don't even know that they underdeveloped and they're like fuck it , you know .
So I don't think it's wrong for a woman to be with a man that is developing because he's already shown the capacity to change . But you got these women that are with dudes who don't know that they've been fucked up , so of course they not changing . If they is , it's the long , slow route . By time he actually made the first step she burnt out .
So , just for arguments like how many women do you think have the opportunity to be with a man that was maturing into a mature man , or a man who was already there ? Because I truly believe that .
I know we put a lot of the blame on the woman , but it's like how many examples have we giving them to say this is what a man looks like , this is how a man is supposed to treat you , this is what you were supposed to receive from us .
So , without that example , like with us when we were talking about how only a man can raise a man or not , a mature man but if we never had an example of what a man looks like , then how could you hold us accountable for us not being men ? We don't know what a man looked like . As far as we could , sir , this is what a man is .
He's somebody who handled his business , he's someone who controlled his woman , he's someone who provides for himself . If those are the only standards for a man , without any of the character qualities , any of the maturity qualities , any of the morality qualities , then shoot a lot of men or men .
I could be a man and do everything wrong , but that example has to be had . So if we need that example , don't you think they need that example as well ? To say , oh right , you know what . Now that I know this is what a man is supposed to give me , then I'm tripping too , because I'm not acting the way a woman is supposed to act .
And then have a woman , a mature woman , teach them this is how a mature woman acts . You're doing womanly things , but this is how a mature woman acts . When you put a mature woman and a mature man together , there's nothing they can't complete together . And I think those examples are missing .
Like when I was growing into my maturity , it took a mature man to say hey , man , you fucking up , man , that ain't what a man does . A mature man is someone who , either , from a spiritual perspective , a mature man is someone who's in the image of likeness of God , which means he is loved at his purest sense .
From a just a worldly perspective , a mature man is someone that is capable of making a woman have no problem submitting to him .
You know who that person was . It was the most unlikely person that said that to me and checked me on that man Because here I am looking up to this dude . It's like this OG gangster crib . He checked me on some stuff like bro you trippin' and I was like man , what you mean ? I'm thinking he's supposed to be backing me up and hyping me on . I'm right .
And he broke it all the way down to me and was like no , and he told me too . From there and on because this one I first got in prison , my first two years man he was like man , fuck all the rest of it Every day , you and my other little homie man , he's like y'all gonna come hang out with me .
And we just sat there on the trash can in the door and just talk and he broke it all down Like man , the whole way y'all thinking is fucked up . And this is what I learned . And from then on I only hung out with older dudes , like people that was older than me in prison .
I only hung out with dudes that was doing more time to me , because I felt like and that's what needs to be done . Absolutely , and that's also what instilled the power of mentorship in me . I took that for the rest of my prison , bed and home . Like man . Everybody needs a mentor . I don't care who you is , you need a mentor .
And if you're past this stage of mentoring , then you need a community of like-minded people with who you can commune with .
But yeah , like Because a mentor is someone who's already been there and showing you how to get there . They already are what you want to become and they're showing you how to become it . That's the only way they can be a mentor .
Yeah , especially if they learned it the hard way and they see you going down that same road .
Yep , absolutely , absolutely . And I don't think that that's just for men to learn how to be a man , a man . I think that's for women , me , women , true women , or women who is developing into maturity , that teach them women , who they're fucking up , how to become women , because they ain't got it all figured out either .
We ain't got it all figured out , but they ain't got it all figured out either . And this , by understanding this and growing in this , then the relationships become more solid , they become more secure , they become a healthier environment in which to heal and to grow in .
They become more meaningful and they become more prosperous . They become what they become more meaningful , they become more meaningful .
Because the only thing they're doing is teaching you how to uncover some of the stuff that's in you and let go of that stuff that's not healthy for you . Just like , think about working out . The first thing they say is change your diet . Even before you picked up a barbell , do a jumping jack , do a squat or do a push up , change your diet .
You have to change what's being put inside of you , because that's the first problem of your unhealthy lifestyle . And the same thing as with us . We have to change some of the things that's inside of us , because a lot of that was created through pain or trauma that we've experienced and because it came from these two places . They're hardwired inside of us .
Because the first thing we do when we feel pain is we constrict , because we get into a protective stand and then , when we keep getting hurt , we start putting this mentality in our head I ain't getting hurt again . I ain't letting anyone do this .
I gotta always be ready .
I will burn the world down first , before I let it hurt me again . And we walk around setting fires . We're trying to burn it real down before we let it hurt us again . And we can't walk around with lighters our whole life . We just can't .
Now , you know I told you I'm always trying to like apply something from somewhere else into like relationships and stuff .
And I tell people , like man , every fight I ever got in , I always threw the first punch , even if I didn't start it , even if I didn't start the fight , I always threw the first punch or I'm sorry , I didn't always throw the first punch , always landed the first hit Right .
You know , that was my thing , is like I might sit there and try to diffuse the situation , whatever it is , but my mentality was I always got to get you before you give me . When you still talking bitch ass , motherfucker , I fuck you up . I wish you would met Guess what . Them hands is moving a little too much , bro .
You trigger something Nervous , nervous , nervous . You know , and that's kind of like a metaphor for every other aspect of life , though , you know , in your relationship you like nah man , I feel like she kind of shady . I'm gonna do her bad for she do me bad . You know you go to a job and you like man , they keep on messing with me .
I think they try to get me out of here . I'm gonna fuck them up before they can fuck me up .
And our life . Our life wasn't meant to be lived fearfully , even though we live it fearfully , and that's why it's important to choose your partner . It's important to choose your try . It's important to surround yourself with individuals that you feel safe around and that you trust , because when you are around environments like that , you can be your fullest self .
You're not looking for shadows and things around the corner that's gonna harm you . You can be your most fullest and authentic self when you are in an environment that you know . Only the only people in this environment want to contribute to my well-being . They want to contribute to me being the best version of myself .
If you're not around that kind of environment , get out of it , yeah we would . It's not all the people I had to walk away from that I was cool with . But you're trying to take my life and I value that now . Before anyone could have my life I didn't care , but now I value my life . So if I value my life , they have a say in the military .
I swear to protect this country against all enemies , both foreign and domestic . So I dive out of the protect myself against all enemies . Foreign meaning everything outside of me , and domestic meaning all that shit inside of me that's trying to fuck me up .
I got to fight both of these battles Because the things that's inside of me that's been hurting me is trying to kill me just as effectively as the people outside of me . So I look at both of them as an enemy and I try to get rid of them or distance myself from them to the best of my ability .
So the only thing that's in my life is that that contributes to producing it and adding to it .
Yeah , when you , when you surround yourself with people like that and when you develop that mindset within yourself , it gives you a better way of receiving stimulus , especially especially uncomfortable stimulus , like kind of like what I told you when dude checked me I was like nigga , you supposed to be on my side , but you know that the people around you got your
best interest , you know already weeded out all the fakes , the phonies , the yes man and everything else .
You have one minute remaining .
You start to realize that when somebody says something that goes against what you say , when they disagree , or when they check you on something , or when they flat out just like , hey , listen , man , fuck you , I'm done , you got to . You start to realize , like , what have I done ?
This has to be coming from a healthy place , because I've already weeded out all the you know dangerous . So now let me understand it . Let's talk about it . If you already passed the point of talking about it and they like man , fuck it , I'm done , you really got to sit there and do some introspection , you know when I thought time , but I love you .
Great conversation , great food , I enjoyed it all and I will talk to you later .
For show man . Thank you for your time , brother . No problem , All right , man Love you , bro . Love you too . Thank you for your time brother .
Thank you for using GTL .
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