Welcome back to Local Threads. I'm Molly, your host. And this week, I sit down with Melissa Woods, the designer behind True to Apparel. A Boston made slow fashion brand that's redefining what it means to dress with intention. She's a fashion designer, she's a UX researcher and a creative force, someone who builds every piece with wearability in mind.
We talk about how she launched a brand rooted in accountability to the planet, to the process and to her own one of a kind alternative style. We talk about movies, fashion supply chain and finding joy in creating. Let's get into it. Welcome.
Hi. Great to be here.
Thanks for coming. All the way from Alliston, right?
Yeah. Or you could say all the way from just like a floor downstairs.
Yeah. Yeah. So we both have a studio in Winsmith Mill, and I don't exactly know how we met. Did I just follow you and be like, hi?
Actually, so other folks that had a shop spaces on the First Floor were like, you should meet Molly. If this is what you do and that's what she does, then you guys should know each other.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's right. It was Tammy. Yeah. And then we finally connected, which is awesome. I don't think we ended up doing, like, hanging out per se for a while.
Yeah. But Yeah. I think we were messaging back and forth trying to figure out a time to meet in person for a little bit because I'm not here all that often. Yeah. And I was like, I popped in at least once when you weren't there first Yeah. Actually got to meet you.
Didn't love running a shop. What? I gotta be here on the weekends.
Yeah. I got close to that at one point. There is a space in Brookline near where I live that could have been a possibility, but I would have had to man the store myself. And
I think you got enough going on.
Yeah. I could have done that when I was just in school. But now that I have a full time job and I'm in school and I'm doing this, it's just it's not gonna happen. Which is Just as well.
First of all, wild. But I can't like, so you you used to work at a nonprofit?
Yeah. My early career was in the arts. So doing communications and marketing, that kind of thing for museums. So I spent quite a few years at the Peabody Essex Museum up in Salem.
That's awesome.
Still haven't
had an opportunity to go there. It seems like every time I'm in Salem and I'm like, oh, I wanna go. It's either I go on the day that it's closed like midweek or it's past the closing time or whatever. Yeah. Really wanna go there.
It's a really great museum. Like it's because we have the big, like, MFAs, and then you have the contemporary museum of Boston, which is the ICA. Yeah. And then I would say PEM and the Gardner are the two sort of mid sized, really unique, like, you go there to experience a particular kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So go.
Yeah. I need to. We can go together. Yeah. Let's do it.
Yeah. And I won't be the millionth person to go on about third spaces.
But No. It's great.
It's harder when it's freaking cold out. Yeah. Like, now that the weather is turning, I find myself out of the house more and just wanting to connect with people more. Yeah. For sure. That's weather in Boston, though. Like, most of the year is just inhospitable outside. Yeah. And that includes a peak of the summer too because it's, like, sweltering.
Yeah. And forget it. I can't swim in this ocean. It's like incredibly cold.
Yes. So like where Don't get me started on.
Where do people go? I need to find a lake or a river or something.
First of all, people out here are built different. They're just, like, used to misery. Yeah. My husband enjoys frigid cold water. Yeah. I don't because, I don't know, like temperatures that are logical. Yeah. But and I grew up in Hawaii. Listeners may not know that. But yeah.
So my bar for a good beach is pretty high. Yeah. And out here, you just have to accept that, like, the beaches are rocky. Just go there to plant yourself in a chair mostly. People who are down with the water will go in the water. Not that's not me.
Yeah. I tried. And I got about waist deep. And apparently, were like, no, you gotta wait till Labor Day. Speaking of Hawaii. So you grew up in Hawaii. When did you move to Boston? Two Thousand Four. So almost twenty one years ago. Yeah. That's wild.
I hadn't actually done that math in a little bit. And I've got a community here. It's to the point where I go out and I, like, bump into people, and I know my way around neighborhoods. Yeah. But I could never say I'm from Boston. I'd say I live in Boston.
Honestly, I have not in the last twenty plus years, I have not lived anywhere more than seven years.
If someone was to ask me out of the places I've lived where I would save my identity, like, from probably Hawaii because that's the formative years. Like, wherever you spent your teenage years and came into your own, I think.
Yeah. What was it like growing up there?
I enjoy gothy things.
Yeah. Though too much sunshine.
Ton of that there. Yeah. As you might imagine. Though at the time as a teenager, I was listening to what a lot of people who are on the alt side of things are listening to at the time, which was like third wave skate punk Yeah. And nu metal.
I fully copped to that. But it was also, like, post punk revival was happening at that time, and that's what led me into goth eventually. Because, like, I got further into it in college, and now most of my friends are in the goth space. I I don't Or goth adjacent. Labels per se. But, yeah, I consider myself more adjacent than actually. I do wear a lot of black, but that's not the definition.
Yeah. Yeah. I like a goth home aesthetic, obviously. But, yeah, I think I have too many color variations to be I just I like Aesthetic jumping. Yeah. I can't pin one down. Yeah.
Think I've noticed certain tendencies in me over time as I've gotten to know myself, but you should just do whatever makes you happy.
Yeah. For sure. While we're on the subject of goth, let's do a this or that. Sure. This or that movie style edition. You pick which one you think the style is better or you like better.
And you want me to tell you why to justify it?
Yeah. We can do that. Alright. The craft or practical magic?
Okay. So I'll just lay the groundwork here. So the craft is more like the Catholic schoolgirl goth. Plus, of course, Nancy has got, like, the more extreme look going on. And I just love Fairuza Balk's look in that movie because she's just so intense looking. So there's that. Particularly for Fairuza Bock, there's points on the floor there. But practical magic is whimsy goth. Yeah. That's like core whimsy goth.
So it depends on your personal taste. For me, practically day to day, I might go more with the craft because they have a bit of a crisper look plus occasional bits of shine like a pleather jacket or something. Yeah. I feel like that's personally more my aesthetic. Whimsy goth has always been a little bit more feminine than I personally identify with. Yeah. Although I love the look. Yeah.
Okay. Interview with the vampire or the crow. The crow for sure. Yeah. Hands down. It doesn't even really need any justification.
Yeah. Again, for the same reasons. Yeah. It's like more of a minimalist, sleek kind of look. Yeah. A little like more modern. Whereas, obviously, Entry of the Vampires like frilly things. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. And we're getting a little weird. Not weird, but we'll see how you take it. Beetlejuice, obviously, not every character's Goth, but you get it. Or the Addams Family.
Morticia's style is a plus
Yeah.
Of course. Beetlejuice is more eccentric. Obviously, Tim Burton, that's the definition of him. Don't know. Beetlejuice doesn't have style
necessarily. Just Lydia.
Yeah. So it's like the bangs and she's got the red wedding dress and a couple other outfits. But I don't think it's so much of a style movie. Yeah. Yeah. Like fashion movie.
And I don't know. I can't even think of that many style changes through the movie, like outfit changes. But
because she's, like, wearing her school uniform through a lot of it.
Yeah. I do like when they do the dinner party, Ioye's outfit.
Yeah. Oh, actually, that's a great Yeah. Catherine O'Hara Yeah. Is actually the style icon of that Yes. Adding, like, the interior design to it. Yeah. And, yeah, it is a very obviously aesthetic movie. But the other one was
That was family.
Oh, yeah. I think if you're more into, like, film noir, like, that era of fashion, that's where all that comes from. So are you an old schooler, like, campy
Yeah.
Goth. Yeah. So what The Witch Am I? Yeah. But now we've actually talked it out. I think that I like the campiness of Catherine O'Hara, etcetera.
More it's more fun. Iconic. I loved her outfits. And so you're going with Beetlejuice then?
Yes. Okay. Only because I remembered about Catherine O'Hara. Heathers or Lost Boys? If we're talking fashion, Lost Boys for sure. Yeah. I you can probably see a pattern now in my choices. Yeah. Crow, Lost Boys, Kraft. It's more of the modern look. Yeah. I have a lot of respect for romantic goth and that side of things, but it's just not my personal aesthetic.
I just love a good blazer and a brooch.
Heather's is more just general eighties fashion.
Yeah. Right? I love eighties. I don't know. I don't know why it's listed as, goth.
And it's a black comedy.
Yeah. Yeah. It does have murder in it. So Yeah. Drano, that was of choice. Right? Maybe because of the color. I don't know. Sweeney Todd or Queen of the Damned?
I think Queen of the Damned, again, because even though like, vampire movies tend to have, like, older fashion references. Yeah. Again, more roughly Victorian, etcetera. Sweeney Todd is also Victorian. Yeah. Just although I picked Beetlejuice before, I think I'm gonna go Queen of the Dam this time. Again, because like most of the outfits I think were early aughts
outfits. Yeah. Iconic. I think this is the last one. Buffy or Jennifer's Body? These aren't necessarily They're
like goth light. Those are interesting choices. I love Jennifer's Body. Although, I will plug if anyone out there has not seen Ginger Snaps yet. Have you seen that movie?
I don't know.
Because Jennifer's Body is basically a remake of Ginger Snaps, like
Okay.
Thematically, in my opinion. But, yeah, Jennifer's Body is great in the same way as that Ginger Snaps is great. And Buffy is also great, but I came in late to that one. Yeah. I don't think I watched it when it was first airing. I watched it after the fact and grew to appreciate it.
We're talking about the movie, not the series.
Oh, the OG one. Yeah. Oh, okay. That makes sense because we're talking about movies. I love the original Buffy movie. Crap. Now I'm stuck.
Yeah. It's way better, I think.
So Okay. So the Buffy movie has Paul Rubens. Yeah. Obviously, that's a huge boon for that movie. So let's see. It was Buffy versus
Jennifer's Body.
Jennifer's okay. So I'm gonna pick Buffy just because it's more of a classic. Yeah. Jennifer's Body is a great movie. It actually made me think a lot. It has a lot of iconic moments. Yeah. But Buffy has to win hands down.
Yeah. Let's get into how first of all, you moved to Boston. We talked about how we met, and then your time in the arts with the Peabody Museum, and now you're working at a nonprofit?
I'm actually working in healthcare now. Healthcare. So I'm doing user experience research for a healthcare software company.
Okay. Yeah. We talked about it briefly. You just recently got your second master's.
I actually graduate in three weeks. So technically, I don't have it yet.
I mean, you do. Basically, three weeks, that's nothing. If there's any indication that of all the things that you've accomplished already, I think you can pretty much say, yeah. By the time this podcast comes out, you'll probably have it.
Knock on wood. Unless I face plant somehow between now and then.
I doubt it. I doubt it. And on top of that, you built a brand true to peril. It was during the pandemic, right? So that was when you started your second master's as well. Two years, right? The programs usually?
The Oh, wait.
It's '25.
Yeah, I know. I started this degree two years ago. So after the height of the pandemic once we had started getting back to normal again. So Trujud was already, like, three by then.
That's awesome. Yeah. So my bad. I honestly time just really doesn't exist to me after the pandemic. I it just doesn't feel like it's been that long.
It feels weird now. I remember first of all, became more of a homebody, right, just like a lot of people. But I remember going out into neighborhoods I used to know really well and seeing a lot of businesses had turned over and just, like, realizing that the landscape of the city was not what I remembered anymore, and it made me feel like Rip Van Winkle. And I still, like, like, I took a walk through Central Square A Couple Weeks ago just to it was the old stomping ground. I just take a walk that I've taken a bunch of times, like, all through the years, like, when I was so much younger, different social circle, all that stuff.
And there were a lot of things that were familiar, like, really hadn't changed at all and other things that had turned over. And but I just had to, like, make that circuit again to update my brain of this is what Central Square looks like now. Yeah. Yeah.
I feel like I'm always in that zone because I'm always in a new place. I don't know.
Yeah. It's weird because, like, I know you you lived in Poland. Right?
Yeah. Before we were here, we were in Poland.
Yeah. So if you went back to where you lived in Poland Five, Ten Years from now, it would be pretty different too. It's like you you think you can go back to a place that has how it's fixed in your mind, but you actually can't.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I lived in Vegas, so that's like a prime example. Like, you blink and that whole city's different. I think the last time I was there was 2011. And, yeah, I probably wouldn't recognize it.
If you're from a city, it's likely to not do that.
Yeah. So you were working at the time at a nonprofit when you started
Trude? Yeah. So I was working at the museum that I've been mentioning at the time that the pandemic started, but I had already been making like, laying the groundwork and doing all the prep for Trude. And my plan was to do it on the side as, like, a creative pursuit. Yeah.
So I actually attended this, like, online accelerator for a six month program called Factory 45 for specifically sustainable fashion, like, design just to launch your independent brand, and they give you a list of contacts and everything to, like, get off the ground. So that's how I found a good number of people that I started working with. Yeah. But I had already been doing all that before the pandemic even happened. So it was it was weird timing because ecommerce actually did do really well during the pandemic.
So in terms of the kind of cadence of the business, it
launched pretty well. So So you launched it while everyone's in lockdown and
Yeah. In, like, the first at the end of the first year of the pandemic.
And did you so you were, like, essentially relying on Instagram Yeah. At that point?
Yeah. Because I I never actually planned to do markets or anything. Like, I didn't even know that was a thing Yeah. Until later on. So I figured I would just sell everything off the website and have a social media presence. And basically, that's that because the social would feed towards the website.
Yeah. So I love that the name is Trued Apparel or Trued. Can you talk about how you came up with that? Because I love that Oh, sure. Story.
Yeah. Yeah. First of all, I could have picked a way gothier sounding name. I was actually down to either Vermillion or True to Peril. And they both have very different vibes.
Yeah. For sure.
And I even went down this rabbit hole of well, first of all, most of the clothes are black and vermilion is red. So Yeah. I know. That's really but, like, I was exploring words like that had more of a romantic evocative thing to them. I even went down this rabbit hole of vermilion is a slacker that came from China that was used in a certain era on certain objects, and so it has this, like, connotation to it and blah blah blah. Versus trued apparel was a lot more of a utilitarian vibe.
Yeah.
And so the underlying idea there is that trued, I actually am using in an an engineering kind of way where if when you true a wheel, you bring it into alignment with its environment. If you true a bike wheel, it's it doesn't bump against the other bits of the, like, bike and all that. So, basically, when you true something, you make sure that it's as frictionless as possible. And it's also interesting that I ended up doing UX as my, like, full time job because you do the same thing in UX. You try to make sure that people can use things in as frictionless a way as possible.
Yeah. Anyway, my approach to designing was to create things that are versatile and yeah. The idea was true to peril is apparel that is in line with what's not keeping you from doing anything in life. I always have been the kind of person who I don't wear a lot of heels or keep my nails long or anything because I want to be able to hit the ground running everywhere I go kind of thing.
Yeah.
It's something that doesn't restrict your movement. Comfort is really key and also versatility, like I mentioned. But also to true it to like, the whole business to be in line with the planet that we live on, with the communities that we live in. Because a lot of fashion is really exploitative and destructive, and I wanted to make sure that I wasn't adding to any of those problems. And it's something that I've had an ongoing relationship with, and I go back and forth about a lot because you are really tying one hand behind your back as a designer when you decide to work in a sustainable way.
Yeah.
And being an independent business is already really difficult. I don't know. I wanted to see if I could do it in a way, and I can make some compromises here and there. For example, with the aesthetic that I am working in, it's really tough to not be able to do things in mesh and lace. I want to. Like, sequins are off the table. That sucks.
Yeah. Yeah.
But I would like to be able to bring the those in in accent panels and things like that. Yeah. Because it's not I don't wanna be too dogmatic about it. The fact is that it's sustainability is a spectrum of different things you can do. Like, can be a zero waste person that, like, designs in mesh, but you use every little scrap of fabric that, you know, in your designs. A lot of different ways to slice it.
Yeah. You mentioned, like, it's restrictive because you wanna use those things. It also allows you to be creative in a way that you wouldn't normally. Sustainability can either be really restrictive or it can just be a new set of eyes. And we just have to like use that new set of eyes with that, some of those restrictive barriers, but also being realistic.
Nothing is black and white in this world. Like it's very difficult to be a % sustainable. When we talked before, you use SOWIS in Dorchester. So all your products are made here. And you had talked about which kind of changed my perspective about near shoring. I can't remember the context in which we were talking about it.
Okay. We could get it to the whole tariffs thing, but I think a lot of
people We already know tariffs are bad now. I knew, but some people, I guess, do not know.
Yeah. We're all learning based on what is getting constricted Yeah. Because of the tariffs that a lot of things that we didn't realize come from outside the country. Yeah. And not even talking, like, already assembled products, but, like, pieces of products that are assembled here. Yeah. Like, I'll be transparent. My fabric comes from Canada, but I think they get it from China. Yeah. And I not that's even a bad thing.
Like, the the tinsel. Right?
Yeah. Tinsel and organic cotton. And anytime I'm not using that, it's dead stock fabric. So, like, for example, if you went on my website, I do have a mesh kaftan, but that's made from deadstock mesh that I found. The resources that it takes to ship things all over the world, obviously, is not good for the earth.
But it's the way that global trade is run. Yeah. So it's really hard to extricate yourself from that even if you're trying really hard to. So I've focused more on making sure the materials are sustainable while checking all the boxes of, like, comfort and high quality and everything like that that I try to keep too. Yeah.
We could get into the whole made in China thing as well. And I know enough about it to know that, like, you can be ethically producing and not ethically producing in China, but that's your decision as a business person.
And it all boils down to cost. Right?
Yeah. Garments, the thing is that people are conditioned to expect a certain price point on garments at this point because of the way that industry has been run for a while now for a generation effectively. So if you are expecting those sorts of prices, it is really difficult to produce locally because you have to pay local labor prices. I managed to do that, but I'm not getting the margins that you normally would that I I work another job. Yeah.
So if I was producing outside the country, maybe I wouldn't work another job. But that's a compromise. I think, first of all, people need to expect to pay more for clothes, buy less. And I just don't think that realistically, that's a compromise a lot of people are either want to or are able to make. Yeah.
Because there are already so many other things they have to spend money on. I think about the idea of Naked Lunch, the the not movie, in the book, is about knowing what's behind what's on your fork or whatever, I think, is the metaphor. What are you really eating? What are you consuming? Now that I've kinda lifted that curtain, I can't unsee it.
And so
I either buy independent or thrift a lot myself. Yeah. The vast majority of the business is just such a way, and consumers are conditioned in just such a way. And that's how it is.
It's wild to me that because I'm I come from a manufacturing background, and you're always just taught inventory is waste. And obviously they're producing at such high rates and the margins are so large that they can just throw out and it doesn't matter.
Actually, if we could get everyone to understand what presales are to do you buy something and you get it maybe two months later, but every single thing that's made is sold. Yeah. And then the company wouldn't have to eat the excess, like Yeah. Of inventory that's not sold. That's a win win.
Yeah.
But people need to understand it's not gonna be an immediate gratification thing.
Yeah. I do understand. We've been conditioned to consume everything fast. We don't even watch TV shows like we used to. We need the whole season immediately. So we can't even wait a week for a thirty minute show. And I'm so guilty of that, buying movies that are at the theater on Amazon and not even going to the theater. And then the fast forward feature on TikTok, and now I think it's on Instagram too, where you don't have to listen to someone talk really slow, which I also use that a lot.
Yeah. I listen to things on 1.5 or two XP.
Same.
Like all the time now.
Yeah. And that's maybe our brains are getting better at processing. Maybe that's the plus.
I don't know. I think for me anyway, I'm just trying to get something different out of the dialogue. I'm trying if I'm trying to get if it's a tutorial, I'm just trying to get some kind of education out of it. Like, I wanna get to the point faster, that's why I do that.
Yeah. I just have ADD and I need them to talk faster. Like when they're telling a story.
No, because that's part of the storytelling is the pacing.
Yeah, the instant gratification of it all. So do you do presales or you do limited
runs? I mostly do limited runs. I've done a couple presales that have worked fairly well. I think that for in an ideal world, I would have a bigger reach first in order for that to be like the main way that I run a business.
Let's take it back to when you decided to start Trujud or started to go on this journey of I wanna create a fashion brand, specifically of things I wanna wear, and you have an education that's differing from that.
Yeah. So it was a combination of, on the business side, learning about manufacturing production, which I had no background in at all. So it was through that accelerator program that I mentioned before. They actually don't exist anymore. Otherwise, I would slug them more, but they were called Factory 45.
That taught me about all the steps you need to go through. For anyone who wants, like, a quick one zero one, basically, you have to source your fabric so that, like, decision process is already a lengthy one. Yeah. So you get all get in touch with all these different wholesalers, and you get samples sent in the mail. You, like, feel it out.
Maybe you get, like, some yardage, which means a few yards sent to you. Try to make something with it. Do you like it? Okay. Then you put in a whole wholesale order. So that's just the material side. Then you got, like, any kind of hardware like this that goes through that whole process too. And then you need someone to cut the fabric. That's a whole job on its own. Then you need someone else to sew it.
If you're working with a factory like a lot of people use in China, like, it this could be a whole package deal. But since I do near shoring, it's like more a la carte. Yeah. So one person to cut, one person to sew. I do all the order fulfillment myself, which is part of why I have a studio.
But oh, and grading, of course. So you develop your pattern of your design as a blueprint in a certain size, but then you have to size it out from that. It's called grading. From there, you take the graded patterns and you create markers from them according to how the quantities of each number of the size you wanna make. So if I wanna make two extra small, five small, 10 medium, you gotta figure out your ratios for that too. I don't know if I'm getting too in the weeds there. No, not at
all. It's fascinating. I think it would be so fun to do a day in the life with you in a long form video, like how you chose your fabric. I think people would love to know about that and also understand, okay, you drive this fabric to your cutter. Where is the cutter again?
I've used a couple different cutters. The one I have now is an Everett, which is great because it's, like, relatively close. Some clothing manufacturers and related businesses in Fall River Yeah. Used to drive all the way there. It's a couple hours, like an hour and a half, I think Yeah. To get down there. So it's like a three hour round trip just to get fabric cut, like uniform makers and things like that there because that's like a very straightforward business that has been able to hold on
Yeah. Somewhat here. I would love to go on a tour of one of those places. I'm gonna reach out. Yeah. Because it's just I love that show how it's made. I'm such a nerd. Yeah. I love it though. I don't care what it is. I wanna know.
I went through a period where I was like putting that on the background. It's just like calming. Yeah.
Yeah. There's 700,000 videos of it too, like episodes. So you get a cut, you drive, you get it from your wholesaler, it comes to the studio or wherever, and then you drive to Everett, and then you take that to Dorchester to the people that make it, then you bring it back to the studio, and you do your own personal quality evaluation. This is so much that goes into literally making anything, but like the fact that you have a full time job doing something else. You're in school, presumably full time because a master's program to do it in two years is full time.
And like, how do you get dressed?
I will share that I used to wonder like, why when you go see footage from a runway show, like, all the outfits are so elaborate. And then when the designer comes out, they're just wearing a t shirt. No. I get it now.
Yeah. Get it. Even having a vintage shop, It makes me not. All the things you have to do. Plus if you want social media or anything else, that's just another. And there's just give me a T shirt.
It works. It's fine.
Is it stained? Maybe. Is it dirty? Possibly. Is it wrinkled? Of course it is. That's just me, though. Yeah. Have you taken the time to celebrate the fact that you've done so much? Because that's really important to do.
It is my hope that this December is the fifth year anniversary of TrueD, and I would like to have the spoons to be able to do something nice with that. In October, that's usually my busiest month. Every weekend, I'm gonna be probably in Salem selling stuff on the weekends on top of having my full time job Monday through Friday.
And also fulfilling online. Yep.
Yep. And so the actually, the biggest downside of having this particular business and having high season be Halloween season is that the last couple of Halloweens, I've been too tired to do anything. Yeah. And that's a real bummer because I love Halloween. Yeah.
We do. Yeah. I'm hoping to maybe take the last week of October off and actually chill. But, yeah, December would be five years Trude has been around, and I wanna try to maybe have a little studio event or something like that, do a little sale. But, yeah, other than that, I had not thought too much about celebrating. I do scroll through my social sometimes and be like, oh, I did all that. Yeah. Oh, I thought of all that and I made it happen.
Yeah. That's nice. It's huge to like because most people don't get through the idea phase because it's so overwhelming. But it sounds like the incubator helped a lot just to map the process out. Once you know the process, it's a lot more digestible. I can't even imagine you just decided, first of all, you took some classes but that's one thing. Going from classes to like pattern making and construction to like actually doing it. That's one class. That's really a big deal
to me. I don't know. To be fair, you can accomplish a lot with pretty basic skills if you have a good eye. Yeah. That's true. Honestly. I wouldn't have the confidence to create like a Victorian style corseted dress in a woven fabric that has no stretch. Yeah. Like that like, suiting that level of tailoring
Yeah.
Is really skilled, and I do not have that those skills.
Don't But it's also not your aesthetic either.
So So I think the fact that I enjoy minimalism and I wanted to design around that aesthetic and drapey things and it just makes it all the easier actually to come up with something that looks nice. Yeah. It all worked pretty well.
That's still hard. I don't believe that. I 100% believe that it's but I think you probably found such a creative outlet that it didn't matter. If it was gonna be hard, it was gonna be hard.
You just kept going. Yeah. It's weird because I've considered doing different product categories. For example, I've done some harnesses and belts, And the expectation of the price point is a lot higher there. People don't give you grief for a hundred $50 thing or more.
But that just it doesn't have the same level of satisfaction to me as creating a garment that really envelops your body. Yeah. It still is interesting to me. I'll probably do more accessories like hats, scarves, jewelry, that sort of thing. But I still get the most gratification out of garment design.
I legit want the outfit you're wearing though. So I can't wait. Thanks. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to wear it. It's so flattering and like I could see it being flattering on any size, which it excites me because I'm definitely not the same size top as I am bottom. I want I cannot wait till that releases. And I also love like the Asian inspired like top and silhouette of it.
Like, I really love it. Thank you.
I feel like your stuff has that balance of like masculine and feminine.
Thank you.
That is like a sweet spot. Thanks. Yeah. You can't believe you created original patterns. That's mad crazy when you are thinking about you're literally working another job. Like when I was working full time, what did I do as a hobby? Nothing, nothing. I did absolutely nothing. I went to school for probably twenty years because that's that's how long it took me to finish both my undergrad and grad program because I just kept switching it. And also I just didn't care about it.
So I was like a career student but yeah, as far as like a legit hobby or like wanting to start a business while I was working full time, I just couldn't do it.
You know what's weird is so I have a background in art before I started working in museums. Like, was I come from a kind of artistic family on my mom's side and that was always encouraged. And my mom actually even encouraged me to go to art school, but I was too practical for that. I had to go for BA instead. Yeah.
But I've always had a, like, an ability to draw and paint and that kind of thing, but I've never kept it up. Like, I I just didn't have the discipline to keep up a creative practice individually.
It's so important to have in your life.
It's I think for people that have a high bar for themselves, it's all the more difficult because if you don't like the way a drawing came out, you're like, that was a waste of time. Yeah. But it's not a waste of time. It's like expressing Like
Yeah.
I saw this thing recently that was, like, dancing, telling stories, drawing and painting, that kind of thing. It's all human expression. And we've created, like, a, I don't know, a mentality of looking at it like a profession Yeah. And always addressing, like, the quality of it before the expressive potential of it Yeah. Which deters a lot of people.
I'll go on a brief tangent. I had an internship where I helped open up a children's art school in the Seattle area when I was an undergrad, and they kinda shared some things with me about how a lot of kids drop off of drawing because every child draws. But I think it was, like, from ages six to eight is when the majority of children realize that they're being judged Yeah. For their artwork and the next Yeah. So the idea of this program that I was helping get off the ground was to get these kids to have more of a scaffolding for building their skills so they don't lose confidence so fast and they stick with it.
Yeah. But, yeah, anyway,
that's a no. It's a great point because I think even as adults, we just need to hear that you you can't be perfect at the first opportunity. Like, you're gonna some things just need to be practiced, but also just have fun doing it. And if it, you don't like it in the end. You don't like it in the end, but
Yeah.
Don't wanna keep you from doing it again. Make bad art. Yes. Make bad art. Did you like have a process where you were like, what is it that like I wanna do? Where you said, okay, fashion design and
It was actually like out of left field that I would launch a business in fashion because my experience was in drawing and painting and two d art and some installation and printmaking and all that. But I had no experience in sewing virtually. Yeah. It's just about your drive of what you want to learn, I think.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was like, I wanna learn to do video and audio. And I also wanna talk to all my friends because they have cool businesses.
Yeah. And it's so weird to find that for the first time literally that finding something that is super difficult. There's a big barrier to entry when you do any technical thing, right? And to finally actually be interested in it. So I'm sure that it was super exciting when you started Trued and started seeing the progression and also just understanding the business side of it and lifting the veil of okay, I know how to get product, I know how to get my supply chain running.
And really that's like the part that nobody thinks about is the supply chain piece. And I worked in a supply chain for such a long time and it's the end all be all. It really is. Yeah. You can have the best design in the world but if your supply chain sucks, then it doesn't really matter. Yeah. Yeah, like
genuine interest can get you through a lot of hurdles
for Yeah. It's so shocking to me because I've never had that. I just like you said, when you were, you could have went to art school because your parents supported it, but you chose something else because you're trying to be practical. That's how I lived my whole life. And then I was like, oh, I have no interest in any of this.
I wasn't bad at it but I also was I'm like, why am I so mentally and physically drained all the time? Obviously everybody wants to do well at their job but yeah, to literally have passion for it and caring is like two different things. We're just taught so young that we need to or what do you wanna be when you grow up? Kids maybe shouldn't be asked that. Let them live. Yeah. Let me live.
I wanna be a human being that doesn't drive the earth into the ground. Yeah. I wanna get it.
I just remember, like, playing with my little plastic horses out in the grass, and they're like, what do you wanna be when you grow up? I'm like, a lawyer. Like, why do I even know what a lawyer is?
Kids don't even know what most of the professions are in this world anyway, like, in this age. Yeah. I'm a UX researcher. When did I learn that was even a thing? Maybe, I don't know, five years ago, eight years ago.
Yeah. And I did human factors, which is you Is that what
you're Yeah. That's what my degree is in. Yeah.
It's fascinating. Just when you think about human factors also in your clothing, you think about that a lot with the wearability. Yeah, I find that so fascinating that you did that and then you did the human factors. Thank you. Was it really would it was that intentional?
No. But it's like one of those things you just live your life. I'm glad you can see the parallel there because it's something that isn't super super obvious if people don't know what user experience is. It's like, I don't wanna say embodied experience because it's not like when you're clicking through a website or an app or even something more physical. Like, I know someone who went from designing escape rooms to being a UX designer.
Oh, that's cool.
There's a lot of commonality there where I'm always thinking about what's the experience of wearing this garment.
Like Yeah.
How are people going to be negotiating with it and accessorizing differently with it with what's what else is in their closet. I've also heard that my attention to high quality fabric means that people don't experience dysphoria sometimes when they wear my clothing. Oh, that's Which is great to hear. Every time I hear it, I'm like, yes. I love
the piece that I got when you when we had the pop up in my studio, the D ring tunic. It's so flattering. I can't wait to wear it. I'm gonna stay in that thing all summer. And as soon as that two piece comes out, I'm doing it.
Nice. One thing I wanna definitely highlight is like this podcast and also a lot of our social media talks about, yours and mine both talk about the importance to not over consume. And there's so much nuance that goes into that discussion. There's so many great podcasts if you want to understand the over consumption issues. We buy too much shit, period.
Full stop. It's when you are intentional and where you're spending your money and understanding that piece is quality and that it will last a long time. And when you feel good when you're wearing it, you're more likely to take care of it. So we want to at least here at Local Threads, we wanna make sure people understand that spending money locally is one supreme.
Keeps money in the community. There's stats out there about that.
For sure. Keeps money in the community. If you like True Apparel or you like Melissa, you resonate with her drive and her ambition, you can actually run into her at a pop up in Salem in October or when you follow her on Instagram, they'll be there. Whatever you end up doing, always announce. I think that was so fun.
Meet the person, understand the background of the business and like how it came to life. And most people that I talked to don't do this full time because it's difficult, it's hard. And the ones that do it are working nonstop. And I challenge to say that they're probably not making what they should be making. Shop local. Buy from people that you know.
Yeah, exactly. Honestly, one of the biggest joys I've got out of this like business journey is the ability to barter with other independent designers and business people. Yeah. For I love bartering. Yeah. We should all do that. Yeah.
It's so underrated. So we talked about the origin and the philosophy of what true to me. Can you talk about how you are rejecting the micro trend cycle? Because I think people don't understand like a lot of sustainable businesses will say they're sustainable.
Where do you begin? So first of all, you need to have a really reactive and lean production, like, chain, like, Shein style. Like, you go from seeing something online, something's trending on TikTok to producing it in a matter of three days. Yeah. To their I don't wanna say to their credit exactly, but, like, it is a feat to do that. They're not doing it ethically. No. The whole basis of doing that is we shouldn't be.
Yeah.
But the fact is that most people can't do that. So there's that for sure. But also trends in general, like trend following, just don't do it. Yeah. Have your own personal style.
And that's why I think, like, the, like, vintage boom vintage and thrifting boom right now is excellent because people are finding all these unique pieces to make their own and coming up with their own aesthetics. Like, of course, there are gonna be trends in the sense that people see each other on the street or see each other online and think, oh, that's a cool look. I'm gonna do that too. So there's always gonna be these waves. Right?
But in like, artificially creating them the way that we have just obviously is a terrible idea for the earth and the resources that we should be conserving. But also, it just lacks originally originality of thought. Yeah. Personally, sometimes I'll see something cool and be like, oh, yeah. That's a good idea. And I'll incorporate that into my closet. But for the most part, most of my life, I have just worn what I wanted to.
Yeah.
And Trude has this aesthetic because it's what I enjoy making. Yeah. And I don't really give a crap about what else is happening.
Yeah. But also, you just don't you don't release, like, a a hundred designs in a year. You're very lean in that regard. And there's a lot of thought behind to that. I think when we talked you said around 15 styles a year, which I don't know if people understand like that's a low number. Like I don't think people understand like how what the what you're competing against. Not competing against, but what other brands are doing.
Yeah. I think, first of all, transparently, it's just about when I have time. Yeah. So with everything else I have going on, like, I'm not putting out a spring summer collection and a winter fall collection. Yeah. That's just not how I would roll to begin with because inspiration just strikes whenever.
Yeah. But your pieces are very transitional from Intentionally. Yeah. Which is I think also people need to respect that because that is awesome. You're getting something you can wear in the summer and in the winter. Like people don't put that much thought into things. When I see stuff at the store, it's like a t shirt, a crop top. It's the same crap.
It's interesting because now you mentioned that the sameness of a lot of stuff. I have noticed a trend in places like Target towards basics. Yeah. And it's all a business calculus. Yeah. Calculus. Yeah. You could draw the same parallel with politics, actually. People are afraid to take a risk and go out on a limb and say something actually means anything. Same thing in fashion because it's about basically how many units can you move or where's the bulk of the people gonna be.
Yeah. I think it's fascinating too. Like, society has gotten to this you're either very into fashion or you're not. At least taking fashion risks as far as how you dress or having a very specific sense of style or even knowing your own style. I'm only recently figuring that out myself. And I know that when I do wear something loud or have a curated outfit, people lose it for just wearing a simple loud color. It's, oh, I wish I could do that. It's like you literally can. It's no big deal.
To me, fashion is about having fun with your self expression. Yeah. And if you follow that line of thinking, then it's just another way to have fun with your life. We touched on this a little bit before we started recording, but I was in the same way that I came out to neighborhoods that I used to know and felt like Rip Enwinkle, I was observing street fashion in with fresh eyes because I just hadn't seen that many people in a while, at least not in real life. And I noticed that people have upped their fashion game in the pandemic, and I realized it was probably largely because of online influences.
Yeah. And I'm not mad at it. Like, I have always felt like Boston could do more to just have fun with it because they're so low risk for the most part when it comes to daily dressing. And I'm not hating on that either. I was just talking earlier about why you wanna throw on a wrinkled t shirt sometimes. That's totally cool too. But I have noticed people being more creative and also playing more with gender and, like, just accessorizing in novel ways. And I think that's super cool.
If you want accessories that are are jewelry, like, you can find anything made locally here. This I've lived a lot of places and I probably just wasn't paying attention there, but here it's there's such a huge creative community. And you had mentioned that you think people got more creative during the pandemic here specifically, which I find fascinating. I think a lot of people did pick up new hobbies and really turn them into businesses. There's also a balance between finding your market too.
So what is your proudest moment from TrueD?
I'm not gonna say one particular moment, but I will say every time I see someone in the wild wearing something that I've designed Yeah. And I don't even know them, like, whether this is online or in person. Like, I've gone to shows where, like, someone in the crowd is wearing a trued piece, and, like, I'm just somebody else in the crowd, and they don't know me.
That's so cool.
Yeah. I just, like, really love seeing people integrating something that I've created into their lives. Yeah. And again, this goes back to UX as well. Yeah. It's a similar thing of you've created something that someone has taken in like a like crawled into a snail or something, and now it's their home. Yeah. And I just really love seeing something that I've done be part of someone else's story too.
It really is cool. That's gotta be so surreal. Yeah. It's pretty awesome.
Do they notice ever? I think the last time that happened, they gave me like a what's up? Oh. Maybe they recognize my face from
They're probably nervous. Upcoming collections or releases, we were talking earlier about your current outfit that you're wearing, is a two piece with metal detail for the people that are not watching on YouTube, but you should watch on YouTube so you can see it. When is that gonna come out?
So as I mentioned earlier, I'm wearing my samples right now.
Yeah.
I'm literally gonna take them off of my body and give them to my sewists later today. Yeah. I brought a change of clothes so that I have something to wear once these are off. Yeah. So they are going into production imminently. So I gotta take good photos
Yeah.
And get it up on the website and all that realistically maybe in the next couple months. Yeah. Especially given the fact that I'm graduating soon.
Yeah. You don't get to celebrate that.
Yeah. That I need to do life things. But so these are coming out. And I also have a version of this that's inspired by the deer ring tunic where it's opened in the front. It's like a top with a long back.
I don't know if I'm going into production with that yet. But so I have those, and then I have a one shouldered asymmetrical dress with ruching, and then palazzo pants with a corset top. Oh, yes. It's like a corset belt with elastic kind of style. So you can either cinch it in the front or you can flip it and cinch in the back. Oh. So it's lacing in the back.
That's awesome. I can't wait to see that. Do you have any advice for people looking to build a more intentional wardrobe? Well, I think, first of all,
I'll say as an example, Earth Day was just last week. I did a footprint calculator. There's this thing that will tell you how many earths worth of consumption you are consuming. And even for someone like myself who doesn't do a lot of driving, but I do own a car. The fact that I'm not vegetarian and that I live in a house that's not super tiny.
My house is fairly tiny, but, like, by global standards, things like that. I think I was at, like, six Earth consumption, literally consuming at six times what we should be. Wow. And I'm an intentional person. And it's I need to
go back and calculate that.
Yeah. It was like a a fresh wake up call. I've had other wake up calls. But Yeah.
That's a good thing to practice every year.
Yeah. To
check. On Earth Day, check your footprint.
Yeah. Just the fact that you travel, you you, like, get on a plane sometimes.
Yeah. There are a lot
of people in other parts of the world that, like, just are never travel. The fact that we're in a developed country means that we're just consuming at an above average
Yeah.
Rate. Whereas someone living in a rural area in a community that's really efficient and shares a lot of things, we should be moving in a direction where we're not constantly in a consumption mindset. Yeah. So it's fundamentally about I get the itch too to, oh, I want something new. I'm gonna go online.
Oh, I'm watching TV. It's 10PM, and I'm just, like, having my me time, and I'm gonna go scroll and look for something to buy. Yep. That's okay sometimes, but I'm trying to curb that in myself. Yeah. And I know it's not it's not the easiest thing.
No. We're taught to buy things from a very young age, whether that's for a special occasion or to keep up with other people. And it's just like part of the American experience more, I think, than a lot of other places. I don't know.
Yeah. Since you've lived in other parts of the world, you've seen that, like, culture permeates things in weirdly subtle ways. Yeah. Like, even going to California and seeing there's more of an, like, emphasis on recycling and composting just, like, around. But when I go to Singapore, there's just a greater awareness of global events too.
Yeah. Also out of necessity because they're just more interconnected with other countries. Yeah. And they're also a very green city, very efficient. So I guess okay. Back to your original question of, like, how to have an intentional closet. Just slow down. Yeah. Like, I know that I make new garments, and I sell them, and that's how I make money with Trujude. But that's, like, a creative project for me, and I've intentionally not built my income on that.
Yeah. Because I don't want to be in a position where I'm selling you things that you don't really need. Nobody needs new clothes, but if you want to partake in, like, a unique thing that I've designed and that I get joy out of designing, then I would like that. That's my position in it. Yeah.
To have an intentional closet, buy when you do buy high quality, buy things that like, I know Marie Kondo's, like, I don't know, maybe passe now, but, like, things that you really feel, like, you connect to. Yeah. And that way, when you go through your closet, it's things that you, like, actually have meaning instead of just were bought on a whim. So in general, that. And then like when you do buy, try to buy independent local with materials that are sustainable or at the very least secondhand and thrifted.
Yeah. Because that means it's not like virgin petroleum products. Yeah. Things like that.
Yeah. That's a good point. Also, when you're buying something, are you buying it because you like it or are you buying it because everyone else likes it? I think that's a good like indicator. And also, do you even know your own style? Because I didn't. I always wore a uniform or I had on the corporate uniform, which is a suit. So I didn't have a style. You know
what I think would be a fun question for this podcast? I guess it won't be all, like, fashion themed.
No. Get let's hear it.
What was your worst fashion choice? Yeah. What do you look back and remember wearing, and you're like, oh.
Yeah. That's a good what's yours?
I think maybe because I was used to I was, like, new to this weather out here. I just didn't know how to dress for cold when I came out here from Hawaii. Yeah. So I was experimenting in college with different ways of layering and stuff. And I had these drawstring pants that had drawstring at the top and at the bottom with with the idea that, like, you would probably cinch it at ankle and have that silhouette, but I would cinch it at the calf.
Yeah. So they look kinda like pedal pushers, and I would wear them with cowboy boots.
Oh, wow. I would not expect that from you. Cowboy
boots. Yeah. My cowboy boots had a moment at that point.
Were they black?
No. I think they I had a tan pair, and then I had a white pair with tassels. Oh. I don't know. I've been through a lot of phases. Yeah. But that didn't make any sense at all. Why was I doing that? But, yeah, that was a weird one.
I was full on Ed Hardy, Von Dutch, low rise. Yeah. That was a choice. But I was also living in Vegas. Yeah. And I wore the juicy track suits. Oh. Yeah. But that was like my early twenties. In high school, I wore other people's clothes because I just didn't have new things because there was just nothing near me.
I was probably forty five minutes from any city. I grew up with in a town where you only had to dial the four numbers to call each other. I don't know if other places did that. I've never heard of that before.
Well, what was the population? 300. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's like a school.
One bus. It wasn't a switchboard. Like, I'm not that old. Yeah. I just had to dial two four numbers to call my friend down the road.
That's like an look, if you lived in a hotel, that would be an extension Yeah. In the hotel.
Yeah. Basically.
Okay. So
like fashion wasn't really a thing. I borrowed clothes from people. Even this is so stupid, even I would borrow my friend's shoes and I remember she was like a whole size smaller. Would just go battle through it. I didn't care. This is ridiculous. I just wore a whole bunch of weird stuff. And then I went in the military and wore a uniform and Really?
Sorry. Go ahead. I actually just thought of a real fashion faux pas that I had when you were talking about uniforms. Yeah. When I first moved from Singapore, I used to go to an all girls school that had a uniform. Right? And then I went into a coed school where I was dressing myself for the first time. It was a nice fashion nostalgia story. So I had the set of did I mention this before? Big T shirts.
Yeah. I remember you telling me
Yes. That your friend. Good. I'm glad I remembered that. So big T shirts with the days of the week on them and the really big block letters that said, Monday, Tuesday, dash day.
And so I would just wear them because it's, like, the only clothes I had that weren't, like, uniforms. Yeah. And I guess it wasn't that uncommon for, like, a 10 year old nine year old girl to wear big t shirts and shorts. That was just what you wore at that age a lot of the time. But it was like the days of the week, plus they had scripture on them Yeah. From the day of creation of the first week. Yeah. It was like, the birds and plants are made today.
That's so funny. But it's so hard when you go from not having to make a choice to to, like, then having to, like, make one.
Yeah. So I think maybe that was the start of a journey of finding identity through fashion, but also through music and how, like, those two kind of feed off of each other because I was very much, like, into alt stuff right off the bat. Yeah. Within the first couple years, I was like, I listen to the rock station. Going from just never listening to the radio at all.
But yeah. And dressing in a way that, like, identified myself as someone who was like that. Yeah, I guess that was my journey from wearing my big days of the week shirts.
Oh my gosh. I wonder if you have any if your you or your parents have any photos of you in those shirts.
They're probably out there. Yeah. If something comes up, I will send it to you.
That'd be great. That's a great question. I'm gonna definitely incorporate that in the future episodes. We talked about your upcoming releases, which I'm really excited about. How to build a more intentional wardrobe and also consider slowing your consumption down.
I think that what you're doing definitely encourages people to be more thoughtful and also doing that by example. I can't wait to see what you do for your five year. Yeah, you should definitely do something big. You should do something big anyway. You're graduating for the second time. Do something for that.
Yeah. I wasn't gonna walk at first, but then some friends convinced me, we'll go out for drinks afterwards. Yeah. It's turning into something.
Yeah. Cherish those moments. Thank you for coming.
Thank you for having me. This one's been great.
I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Go congratulate Melissa on her recent graduation. Follow trued apparel on all social platforms. Check the show notes for links and more. Thank you for joining me this week. I can't say that enough. Like I literally just started a podcast and people are listening to it. So thank you. Be sure to follow local threads on Instagram for updates. And if you wanna watch full episodes, they are available on YouTube.