podcast, the show where we flip the real estate status quo on its head and put loan officers into the driver's seat. We give you all the tools, strategies, resources, and mindset needed to modernize your mortgage business and thrive. My name is Luke Shankula, aka Long Form Luke, and this is the Loans On Demand podcast. going on? Welcome to the Loans On Demand Podcast, the show where we help loan officers flip the status quo on real estate agents and put loan officers in the driver's seat.
And I'm excited because today we have Spencer Desbarre, the founder and CEO of Adium, serial entrepreneur. He's done this a few different times, but he's doing some cool things with mortgage CRMs, some AI cool things that maybe we can't talk about today. Maybe we can't, but hey, you know what? Welcome to the show. What's going on, Spencer? Yeah, no, great to be here. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Yeah, absolutely, man. So give us a little background on who you are.
Obviously, I gave your titles, but give us a background. Who is Spencer? What has you in this space? And you know, kind of what's your background? Yeah, for sure. So I'm a serial entrepreneur, which means that I've done a lot of things that didn't work out and tried my best to learn from those failures until you kind of get to something that maybe works out a little bit. And that first thing for me was a company doing predictive data and analytics in the real estate space.
So kind of predicting people will be more likely to sell homes, generating leads, selling those leads to realtors. I was able to work really closely with a bunch of realtors and began to see some of the challenges that they experienced on a day-to-day basis. Like, you know, I think realtors are like one of the few professionals out there that pick up their phone day and night, not even knowing who the number is that's calling them.
And I think that speaks to just how messy real estate transactions are. People are not on the same page and, you know, also selling leads. And we were talking about this for the start of the show. People always complain about the lead quality. And it's like, I would ask, okay, so unpack that for And me. they'd say things like, well, I made a call, but then I got really busy. I haven't really followed up and I don't have a listing yet. And it's like, well, I get that.
And I get the persona and all the stuff they have going on. I think it's just surprising for me. There wasn't a lot of great tech that was really just helping them streamline their day-to-day and helping them streamline their top of funnel, converting their leads. And I saw an opportunity to do that and saw the lender as the quarterback of a transaction in a way where you got to get the loan done.
And I think I saw even more antiquated technology in the world of mortgage and decided to start Moose Daily Eye. Now we've rebranded to ADM and we've been doing this since 2019. Awesome, man. Well, I'll just say this. You're right. The hard thing about the mortgage industry and real estate industry is there's such a big cost to sort of bring in new tech, right? And then obviously then there's the other side of things, which is actually getting loan officers to adopt new tech.
And so I think a lot of times it's easier for these mortgage companies, especially the big ones, to just kind of stick with what they've always used because everybody kind of knows how to use it. And it just kind of becomes embedded within the culture, not culture, but just easier, right? Easier than upgrading. And so, yeah, traditionally, I think the industry has been very slow to make adaptations to the market.
And I think with AI coming around, I mean, like with the things that are happening with AI, with the generative models, with LLMs and the chatbots and things like that, there will be a shift here in the next few years where they're going to have to adopt the tech or they're going to get left behind. And I think that's coming way faster than people really believe. So I don't know what your thoughts are on Way faster. Absolutely. You could look at it as a pro or a
con, right? And I think it's a pro. Like this technology and some of the stuff that we're trying to do at ADM, like it's genuinely helping borrowers have better experiences and it's genuinely making loan officers lives better and helping them make more money. Like, I think that's a pro. I mean, sure, there is that con of like, I got to get and adopt this new piece of technology, but overall, I think it's for the better.
And, you know, I think one of the things that I, to your point, like this idea of, you know, larger, let's say, IMBs or brokerages switching technology, and they've been reluctant to do it. You know, I think that sentiment is changing a bit. And the question that I usually ask, like, let's say it's a head of production at an independent mortgage bank, I would ask them, you know, when's the last time you
lost a top producer? And they might say like, ah, you know, three months ago, and I'm still really, you know, salty about and it, whatever. you And, know, the follow ago and I'm still really, you know, salty about it and whatever. And, you know, the follow-up question I ask is, so how much of an impact did your technology stack have on them going? And it's like, what do you mean by that?
And so, you know, to reframe it, like a one is basically your technology had no impact on their decision to leave. They were like, great, I'm just going to leave and go somewhere else. A 10 is like, they left and they called you up and said, I made the biggest mistake ever. I didn't realize how good the technology is. Can I just please come back? And the answer is always a two or a three. I've got this corporate CRM and our tech stack and no one really cares.
And so my question to that is like, well, then, I mean, why are you paying all this money for some of these pieces of technology? It has no impact on your ability to retain your top producers and recruit new ones. And it's just not working for you. So I think some people are trying to figure that out and are a little more open to those conversations. Yeah, it makes sense, man. I mean, you know, because you're right.
A lot of times people don't even want to use the internal software that companies have. So that's probably a hurdle that you guys sort of face. And I know one of the things that you guys do when you are rolling out this software is you help with implementation. So what does that look like? Like, how do you get people to use
software? Because, you know, as like we were talking before, I mean, as a marketing agency, one of our hardest things that is, is like actually getting loan officers to implement the processes that we have in place to log into the CRM, to text people back, to, you know, pick up the phone and call people to answer the phone, like things like that. And, you know, to roll out a new CRM, a new piece of tech on top of whatever Encompass and other things that they have in process,
what does that look like? And how do you do that in an efficient or effective Yeah, it looks a little bit different for a loan officer, a team or a branch versus an enterprise. We're probably one of the few to actually work with all those categories. But really, our framework internally is the same, which is we have this sort of we call it like beginner, intermediate, advanced expert, essentially.
And the goal is to get everybody kind of moving up that, you know, climbing that mountain, so to speak. And so the way that we look at it is, you know, from a beginner standpoint is like, great, are we nurturing and engaging your database? Are we maybe integrating to your LOS and providing updates as loans are underwritten? Maybe intermediate is, are we integrating your lead sources? Are we doing lead conversion campaigns? Are we integrating with your point of sale?
Maybe that advanced is like, are you starting to build your own custom campaigns where now you're saying like, actually, if we did this when a loan was funded, we sent a gift to them, that's what I want to do. Or, you know, hey, I actually have a really great idea on how I want to kind of convert leads and communicate my referral partners, like things like that, you're starting to think about how you customize and make it your own.
You know, an expert is like, you're just kind of going all the way, like you're kind of customizing everything and integrating a bunch of different data sources. And so we like to think of it that way, You kind of, you start small and you progressively do more and more. We're heavily invested in our clients doing that. I mean, if you ask anyone that works at ADM, that's the thing we actually look at most. It's not how many new sales are we getting and all this.
It's how many customers are going from beginner to intermediate or intermediate to advanced, right? That's our North Star as a company. And so I think for us, we look at it that way. And I think underscoring the entire thing is data. So we put a lot of emphasis in data and loan officers, teams, branches, enterprises we work with, we always ask, do you know your numbers? Do you know your conversion rates? Do you know your re-engagement rates? Things like that. And most of the time, people don't.
And so I think the numbers show where you can have room for improvement. Like if your lead application rate is really low, how can we help with that? Like what content can we turn on to make sure that that improves? And so for us, it's that trajectory. It's beginner, intermediate, advanced, expert, you know, and trying to be data-driven about where can we also add value? Like we don't want to just turn stuff on for the sake of turning it on. We actually want it to work, right?
And I think that's where a lot of people just get disenchanted with tech because it's like, I'm turning this stuff on. I have no idea what this is doing for me. I think for us, it's like, we want to very clearly show you how it's helping your that makes sense. I mean, I think there's the other side of things where people are hopeful that technology or automation will replace the need to have them do any of the work and they just magically have, you know, applications fall in their lap.
And so I'm assuming part of what you talk about is, all right, well, yes, tech is one piece and that helps with conversations. But at the end of the day, you got to do some of the work, right? I mean, you talked about lead to application. Do you do some nurturing there? Are you kind of saying, hey, like, what's your sales process? Like, what does that look like from the Yeah. So the way we would look at lead to application is we would first want our customers to kind to see what that looks like.
And so just industry average lead to application completed is about 20%. And people always think that that's crazy, but it's really not. And loan officers always say, there's no way I'm way better than that. It's like, what do you know your numbers? No, I don't. So okay, well, that proves the point. And that's fine. It just shows there's a lot of opportunity to improve there. And so a lot of that is when a lead comes in, where's your process to convert and drive it to an application.
And so I think it's that speed to lead first touch point, you know, engaging and getting in front of them, which obviously our system can do through automation.
I know other systems do this too, but it's also, you know, making sure that you're communicating in a way that works like through texting or things like that or maybe integrating video to kind of differentiate yourself a little bit converting leads via email just is not a good idea as i'm sure you it doesn't work great but here's the truth just to kind of touch on that is every medium is important because some people feel more comfortable communicating via email small percentage these days
but there is still a small percentage of people that do prefer to communicate via email. Most are going to be communicating via text. And then, you know, you also have to pick up the phone and call them. And obviously there's voicemail drops and things like that that you can do as well. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of variables there that play into it.
And I think email does a good job and more of the nurture sort of long term, you know, trust building stuff, but not as much of the instant sort of like, Hey, respond to this email type thing. Right? Yeah, term, you absolutely.
And and so i'm with you i think you do everything but again like you know if you're just doing text you're probably leaving something on the table and so you know let's get in front of them quickly and then we see this all the time and any loan officer that's looking to do more business i encourage you like if you have a simple nexus or flowify or blend or whatever point of sale you're using like open it up and see how many people have started and haven't finished.
And there's usually a lot of people in there. And I think for us, like we have integrations with all those point of sales and then some. And so for us, it's also saying, hey, great, when someone starts the application, this happens all the time, right? It's like someone starts it and it's like, oh, I got to upload these documents. So I got to pick up my kid for school. And then it's like, whatever, I'll get to it whenever I get to it.
And so we think of it as like the abandoned shopping cart analogy of like someone starts and stops. And the reality is some people are really good at staying on top of that. But again, you're getting new leads. You got to reach out to those leads. It's kind of the shiny object. You get the dopamine hit when the new lead comes in. And so for us, we try to set up those automations to help you really recapture people as they start the app and stop. And you do it in a really nice way.
Like, hey, I'm just here to help. I know it can be daunting to set up an app. I'd love to get you pre-qualified. Give me a call if there's anything I can do to help. And we've seen that like two, three X people's pull through rates at that point, right? And so there's just, there's little things like that you can do to help increase that. And so you're right, you gotta do the work, but why not have the technology do some of that work for you? At least the stuff that's harder to get to.
I I think automation with any sort of lead generation, even if it's not consumer direct, even if it's like a referral, there has to be some element of automation that is in play for the touch points right now. That being said, I mean, different models require more or less automation, but I do think there is always a value to having some form of automation as long as you don't expect it to do all of the heavy lifting for you, right? It will help. It will start conversations.
But generally, one thing I always tell people is our goal as salespeople is to get somewhere on the phone call, right? But we need to understand that each of these mediums need to be communicated in a certain way, right? So like email, you can write longer emails and be okay. Text message, if you're writing paragraphs of text, most likely you're scaring those people away, especially if they're consumer direct. With the referrals, you can get away with some bad behavior.
If they are cold leads, if you data lists, they're, know, whatever it is, wherever you're getting your sources from, it's much harder to convert. So think about like how you normally would text a friend. You don't text long paragraphs most of the time. You're texting short. You're asking one or two questions, right? You're not trying to sell them.
You're just trying to have a conversation, ask questions and get them into the next stage of the process, which again, as a salesperson, our goal is to get them on a phone call. But especially if they're cold, we have to nurture them to the point where they trust us so that they'll take our call, especially with younger generations, millennials, things like that. We have to understand what is it that makes them feel comfortable and also not trying to go straight for the sales.
We talk about commission breath all the time. A lot of times, loan officers have this big commission breath. They're like, oh man, they're not ready to buy. They're tire kickers. Like, no, they just don't know who you are and they don't trust you. And you need to work through that process. Like that is your job as a salesperson is to build trust. A lot of times if you're getting referrals, you don't have to do that, but I'm on a soapbox here.
But one thing that's interesting to me is I recently launched a YouTube channel a couple months ago and my most viewed video is how to generate leads. One of my least viewed video is how to convert more leads. What's funny is it seems like most people think that they need more leads when really what they need to do is do a better job with the leads they already have.
And so I mean, that's kind of the conversation we're having here is understanding your metrics and understanding like, hey, like, you may not need more leads, you just may need to do a better job of keeping up with your leads, application starts, applications completed, you know, but not documents back, documents back, but no contract, right? Like, these are all the different phases of that, that you need to think about.
And so what you're doing, you guys have like different stages along the way that you can have some automation that helps or at least notify the loan officer when certain things Oh, yeah, for sure. Right. I think what's important to note is like, we've built our system to be very flexible. So you can build an automation or workflow off of any field and, you know, notify yourself off of any event that happens. Like there's a lot of flexibility in our system, which is great.
But of course, we learned that, you know, to your point, like new to the game, you don't know the difference between what text message gets an engagement and converts versus one that does.
And so we have what's called playbooks where you can basically take you know content and automations that are tried and true and work and eventually over time you can make them your own and improve on them but you know we have all the data in the back end and we see what's working and what's not working and we're able to kind of help curate content for our users that just works and get some results and so i think to your point, like, again, it just is the numbers thing.
It's just being very objective about it. Like some people are really good at converting leads and that's their thing, right? And then others are really good at like that touch point or going out there and kind of prospecting, but then they get someone, you know, in the hopper and it's like, well, I'm out there prospecting some more. And that's okay. Leverage technology to help you kind of overcome maybe the areas where are just not as interesting to you or you don't spend as much time on.
And so we have playbooks for all of that, like new lead, you know, coming from X source and they get into the point of sale, you know, they stop pulling out their application or need some documents or there's a needs list. I mean, all that stuff's in there and it can all be turned on. But again, I really think it comes to this concept of knowing your numbers and because that's eye-opening, right? Like everyone says you need more leads and maybe that's true.
But when you see you're converting, you know, a hundred leads, you get 20 applications that are completed and you know, 10 of those close, like, which is industry averages here. Like that's eye-opening. It's like, wow. Okay. There's a lot of money to be made there. And maybe if I just click a couple buttons here, turn on these campaigns, I can start to do that. Like I think people start to see that when they see the numbers. Otherwise, it's just too nebulous to Yeah, agreed.
And one of the concepts we teach on as well is like little hinges swing big doors, right? And so thinking about like these little micro changes, if you can just increase your contact rate by 10%, and you can increase your application rate by 10%, and you can increase your pre approval rate by 5% or 10%, whatever. If you can just do all these little 10% increments on all of these different phases of the process, it's not just a 10% increase at the end. It's like 100% increase at the
end, right? It's like you can double your business just by improving these little tiny things by 10%, right? Each of these different stages in the funnel, the buyer journey. Because ultimately, one thing we teach on as well is like at every stage of the process, like people are looking for reasons not to buy, right? Like especially when they're coming from a cold source, but even referrals like, like they're like, oh, this is too good to be true or whatever.
Like, and we say this too, objects at rest stay at rest, right? So it's the same thing. Humans are typically moving away from pain or moving towards pleasure. And mostly we're moving away from pain a lot of times, right? And so let's be honest, filling out a freaking long ass application is not very fun, right? It's a painful experience most of the time, right? Having to upload documents and go find and go find your W-2s and go do like, that's a painful piece of conversation.
How do you create urgency around those things? How do you build trust? How do you get people to move forward and let them know that, hey, if you don't get these things to us, you can't buy your house. There's outcomes and there's opportunity costs that they're missing on if they don't move forward and let them know that, if you hey, don't get these things to you can't us, buy your There's house. outcomes and there's opportunity costs that they're missing on if they don't move forward.
But part of that comes down to the conversations and, you know, the follow ups and automations and staying on task. Absolutely. It's just the communication, right? There's been sort of studies done on this thing. But it's like, you know, you go to the dentist and you have some painful procedure.
You know, if the dentist just says nothing, gets right into it versus, you know, pats you on the shoulder and says, Hey, look, like, I know this is not going to be fun, but don't worry about this a lot of times. And you know, I gotcha. Right. And just psychologically, the amount of pain and discomfort people experience is like exponentially different. It's so different here, right? Someone starts an application, they get to like, gosh, I don't know what I'm doing.
But you hit him with a text, you know, a few hours later hey just thinking about you like i know this can be a lot like not sure if you got a chance to look at the app my team's here for you i'm here for you just give me a call i'm happy to help you like that's what people want to hear like i think everyone tries to streamline and make it like this perfect process and i mean yeah that's great but it's hard to control some of that stuff at the end of
the day and some of it is painful it's just the reality of it and so building that trust just letting people know you're there for them, you're communicating with them and setting those expectations of like, sometimes this is annoying, I get it, but I'm here for you. Like that goes a long way versus like, you know, the cycle, a lot of us get into is they started an app and, you know, now it's been three days and, oh, what do we do now?
Like, you know, okay, maybe I'll give it two more days to figure it out. And they don't. And then it's like, well, now I even feel bad calling them because like, you know, are they interested? Am I bugging them? Or am I, you know, just being on top of it and being proactive helps a lot. And again, like that's a hard thing for most humans to be good at. And I think it's a great place to leverage technology to really kind of spark those conversations. It's not replacing you.
It's just putting you in front of them in a way where you can do what you do best. It's so be good Yeah, I agree, man. That's the sort of differentiator is like, it's not there to replace you, but it is there to support you. And I think that's the big difference, right? Again, like the amount of times I've heard someone say like, I just want a way to get another couple of loans a month automated. I'm like, that doesn't exist, man.
You don't get paid $3,000 to $10,000 per deal deal because it's automated like you get paid that because you're bringing the business in and you're doing the work that's required to get the money like sure again technology is our friend ai is going to be great you know to help us simplify a lot of things i mean we're working on some cool ai follow-up stuff for i'm sure like in the future you guys are probably gonna ask some of that stuff involved if you don't already and so that's
what's cool is like you know being able to use some of these tools to again, start conversations, but at the end of the day, they're not going to convert them for you. They're not going to build the chest for you. They're going to have conversations, right? But you still got to do the work. So interesting, like from your perspective, like you probably have a lot of data. What are like the biggest things that drive ROI from like using your system? What stage is kind of the best ROI driver?
system? What stage is kind of the best ROI driver? Yeah, absolutely. So I think there's probably a few buckets to this. So I think bucket one is that sales funnel lead conversion. Like I just wish there was another way around that. But again, we're talking 100 leads and 10 typically closed loans. Like that's your biggest opportunity, right? I think we've kind of beat that to death a little bit, but I just agree that is the biggest opportunity. The next two biggest opportunities are on that.
Okay. I do 10 loans out of a hundred leads and the industry average is about 16%. So let's call it maybe two, if you're really good at those 10, do a transaction with you again. And so there's an opportunity there to stay in front of them and to really become that trusted advisor. And you do that by providing value and providing relevant content to them, which we can talk about. But you also do that by providing a great transaction process.
And they see how you care about them and how you're making sure everything's taken care of. And that builds trust. And then it's leveraging that trust to stay in front of them and maintain that relationship. So when they maybe are thinking about a refi or investment property or something, they're not even thinking about it. They're just calling you, hey, what do you think about this? And I'm part of that too, but there's a lot that technology can do there.
And so I think that's bucket number two. And bucket number three is going to be kind of that referral partner management piece, which is a great communication to referral partners, particularly to a listing agent or things like that on a transaction. It's going really well. You can definitely wow people. And you know, I mean, those transactions are all the base. And like I said, I think the lender is the quarterback.
So great, be a quarterback and drop the right play and get the ball where it needs to go. And you know, wide receivers want to play for people like that. And so there's a huge opportunity, I think, on that standpoint, to really make sure that your referral partners are just the agents of all the transactions. They know exactly what's going on all the time. They're up to date. They never, ever worry about, you know, your eye on the ball.
And again, most of that stuff can really be automated, you know? And so I think those are the three, I'd say, big opportunities for the loan officer. I think enterprise is a little bit different, but I think loan officer, those are the main Yeah, that makes sense, man. Because interesting, you said 16%. Yeah, I was on a podcast with a guy from Monitorbase and they said 19%. So right around the same number,
right? So 80 something percent of future transactions that you think, you know, I get these clients for life. Like how many loan officers say that? And then just like the whole idea of 20% application, they're shocked that that's the number. And I'm like, it's even lower most of the time with the online leads, right? Then referrals. So if it's 20%, you know, with referrals, you know, you can get higher, especially with referrals, because those people are going to come in with a ton of trust.
But it's interesting because yeah, the future business, I mean, in marketing, we always learn lifetime value, right? When we talk about LTV in the mortgage industry, they're thinking loan to value, not lifetime value, right? So, you know, that's a concept that I think that loan officers need to understand is like, Hey, like it costs a lot more money to acquire new clients than it does to keep the existing clients you have. Right. And so why are we missing out?
Why do loan officers so often miss out on these future transactions? Again, according to monitor base, it was like something like in 11 years, there's four average transactions that happen one purchase every 11 years, and then two refinances within those 11 years. That's four transactions you can get. And as long as you're trying to be in this business for more than the next 11 years, there's four transactions most likely that you can get from every single person.
Now, obviously, the law of averages, not everybody's going to do that. Some people may do more and some people do less. But you're missing out on a lot of opportunities by thinking transactionally instead of by thinking long-term, long term, lifetime value? How do I get future business from these people and structuring your business that way? So does your technology help with sort of that full lifetime journey from lead to closed to post closed nurture? Yeah, absolutely.
And I think a lot of that starts, again, through that transaction process, right? Like if it's a good experience for the customer, they're going to much more likely to transact with you than if it's like a mediocre experience for sure, right? And so I think it starts in the transaction, which is just as things are happening, you're just communicating that super timely manner and the method they want to be communicated to.
Like again, like if you have millennial homebuyers purchasing a home for the first time, like don't send them emails. Like they don't want emails hearing my loan is officially approved. They want a text message saying this is what this is. And don't worry, this happens on basically every loan. And this is what we need to do. Like, that's what they want. Right. And yet, very few systems actually do that.
You know, and it's like, they get this email, they're like, I'm going to call this loan officer and you're busy and you don't get back to them for a few hours. It's just like, why? Like, remove that just friction, get out in front of provide a it, great experience. And there's a lot we can kind of talk through But there. you then, after you know, fund a give back to them for a few It's just hours. why? Remove like, that Just friction. get out in front of Provide a it. great experience.
And there's a lot we can talk through there. But then after you fund a transaction, how do you communicate? Are you going to send them a gift and congratulate them? Something meaningful. We have a customer that sends cutting boards that are branded when they get home. That's a really cool, creative touchpoint. And we have gifting automations already built in. So you can just pick something and use it if you want to. So I guess experience's that feeling.
And then it's how do I stand in front of this person and provide value? and it's like, they get this home. You know, I'm sure you know this way better than me. I think we found that like, you know, this whole idea of every week I send out this email or every month on the same day I send this, it just seems predictable and not personal.
But, you know, really thinking about like what's going on in the market, what's going on in their neighborhood, what's going on in their neighborhood, providing something to them, whether it's in New York or not, just saying, Hey, I'm just sending this around. Hope this helps. Video is big too. People are way more likely to engage and respond to video. That type of content, again, continues to position you as that expert.
And thinking on an annual basis to maybe on a monthly basis or bi-monthly, whatever it I is, have this content going out.
But on an annual basis, am on a monthly basis or bi-monthly whatever it is i have this content going out but on an annual basis like am i making just a phone call to check in it's been a year since we've done this you know how are things going for you you know would love to help in any way or you know i'd love to show you kind of how much equity you have now what options i can open up for you so i think like that's kind of like the proactive and then of
course there is a reactive which like a monitor base or the other platforms do too, which is like, okay, this person can drop mortgage insurance. This person should refinance. That's obvious. Right. I think there's more of those things. Then, you know, even some of these platforms are pulling in life events, like, Hey, they have a three bedroom house and have their third kid. Like they probably, you know, we're going to look to move or, you know, it's a great time to reach out.
And so I think there's more of the kind of proactive versus the reactive. We're really strong on the proactive side. And then we do a decent amount of the reactive, but yeah, maybe not as much as like a self-imprimed ring or something like that. They're great at that. And we partner with them and, you know, we have elements built in. And cool.
I mean, cause like, yeah, the reactive stuff you want to be get in front of them before they, you know, get to the point where they're pulling credit with another lender. Not that you can't save that person if you get to them, but obviously you're a little late if they're going with someone else. I don't know a lot of people that have saved that. I just got to be honest.
I'm not saying it's not valuable, but I really have not heard many stories at all of, hey, I transacted this person two years ago. They're pulling credit with another lender, and I got them to do a loan with me. Sure. I mean, have you heard of stories like that? I of I have you heard me. of Like, stories mean, like that? I don't know. I've heard of people saying they use those platforms, but I honestly haven't dug too deep into, like, how many of those are you actually saving?
But yeah, you're right, man. The proactive is really the thing that matters the most and all those different touches. So I do like that because, you know, ultimately it comes down to, like, you're giving value, but you're right. I mean, you know, a lot of times, like all these CRMs that people have, like, guess what they all do? They all send. I don't want to call them stupid, but they all send these stupid templated holiday emails. Guess who else is sending holiday emails?
Every single other loan officer and every other single real estate agent and every other single company that has ever transacted with this person is sending them holiday messages. So that is not going to stand out from anybody. Right. So is it a personal card or something like that that you can send them? Right. you But, I know, guess from your you CRM, can trigger some of that stuff. Do you use something like handwritten or anything like that?
But you can send those like cards that are looking like they're handwritten, but they're not. Yeah, we do have some integrations there. So you certainly can. We all try to think out of the box to. Like, you know, example would be, and this is not something we'd recommend everyone turn on. Like you gotta kind of have to own it and be into it.
But like, okay, maybe instead of sending out a happy Memorial Day email, why don't you send out like a happy National Donuts Day email or something just like once you can get outside. There's other kinds of creative ways to do it. Again, I just think this comes back to the numbers piece. Cause what happens is let's say the database, a thousand people and you send out a happy Halloween video.
What's going to happen is you might have one or two people that respond that say, Oh, well, thank you for this. Right. And then you're thinking like, this was the best thing ever. Right. I got these two emails from these people saying, thanks for this happy Halloween video. Right. This is great. Right. And I hear this all the time. I love that. But then it's like, so I have 1000 people. How many people open? How many people engage? How many people unsubscribe?
you actually look Well, at those It's numbers. have a thousand like, oh, how many people people, how many people open, how many people engage, unsubscribe? you actually look Well, at those numbers. It's like, oh, wow, this thing really sucks. You know, but I can see how like there's that false, you know, kind of flag. I'm like, oh, two people. So this is great. Like, oh, this is working for me. It's like, well, I mean, it depends on your goals.
If, you know, a 0.2% engagement rate is your goal, then sure, it's working for you. But if your engagement, you know, is higher than that, then like, yeah, it's just not right.
We got to think a little oh, this is well and you know i mean who wants to really be whatever celebrated on holidays by a business like the truth is like they know your business and so by doing that like it feels kind of like not genuine like oh you're just trying to touch me during these times so anyway you know it is what it is like i'm not saying don't have that kind of stuff but i'm just saying that that should not be your only source because
mostly those are just gonna be thrown straight into the trash right like if they don't unsubscribe they're just gonna throw it in the trash i mean i generally don't open that kind of content to be kind of yeah well think about like so how many do you get right like that's a good thing for the office to think about like because i get all the email from like my state farm agent and everybody yeah happy birthday card from my doctor and
stuff like so how many do you get okay so it's the best question right there's a lot of ways for you stand out yeah i agree man and that's huge so you know i kind of warned you before so i'm gonna put you on the spot here but i don't know if you have any strategies that you train your people on but what's like one strategy two strategies like some ways that loan officers can go out there get some more business today i mean i don't know if it gets to
reactivations or again i don't want to see it anything what is a way that a loan officer can go out there and gain some more business in this market? Yeah. So there's like the short term quick hitting things and then the more long term things. Okay. Typically speaking, like having good processes and doing things over time is how you're going to succeed. I know no one wants to hear that. I certainly don't want to hear that like all the time. I don't love that. Right. But it just, just is true.
And so let's say, first and foremost, think about what are you going to do this year? Are you going to implement a new technology? Are you going to implement some new processes? Again, if you're on that beginner level, just starting to use tech, you're using Excel a year ago, you're not going to be an expert. That's fine. Just make some small iterations and continue to do better. With that out of the way, what are like the short-term ways to kind
of gain business? I think a lot of it has to do with building the referral partners. That is kind of the tried and true way. I think, again, trying to provide value in any way that you can. And I think trying to source referral partners by creating really interesting content. So a really good, well thought out market update that you're sending out to them.
And even if it's cold, you're buying a list of referral partners, but you're still sending something interesting that they might want to read. I think LinkedIn is a great platform to connect professionally, again, to share who you are and what you're all about. And I think it's also looking in your database today too, to just see who's built equity in their homes, just start calling those people, right? Someone did a loan with you X amount of years or why not just
call those people? Because there's options there, right? And there's a lot of people right now that are in credit card debt. There's a lot of people that, you know, maybe something unfortunate happened to them or, you know, maybe they're thinking about downsizing.
I mean, if you're really looking for something to do, just make those calls and just see what you can do to help, you know, and just tell them, Hey, it's, I know it's tough times and people are struggling economically and there's a lot of programs and options and I'm here to help in any way that I can. So I don't think it's pick up the phone and, you know, tell people that you're there to help and provide value.
But I think a lot of the shiny objects and you know, better than me typically don't produce great results. Like someone who's saying, here's a big list of all these people that want to refinance and it's a thousand bucks. It's like, if that was true, they wouldn't be selling it to you if you make a million bucks of it. So a lot of the shiny objects aren't great. So a Or they have to do the work,
right? Like here's the thing, like there's no such thing as like, it's a thousand bucks for a big list of people that can refinance. They're probably gonna be super cold, which means you're gonna have to do a lot more work to nurture them. So I agree. I mean, one tip that I'll give you that maybe that will help you guys is like one thing that we've been recently doing with clients, and this is for cold leads, right? Because we help them get leads and stuff like that.
But what we found was a lot of our loan officers would have leads that would respond, they would start the conversation, and then they would disappear. And they would just sit in an in contact stage. So we just sent out the simple text that said something like, Hey, this is john with whatever mortgage you reached out a while back. I just want to make sure you got taken care of. Are you still in the market to buy a home? Something like that, right? Something simple.
It wasn't quite those words, but something like that. Very simple. We ran that test with 10 different people. And this is in the last two weeks with just like a small list of past leads. So these are cold leads. These aren't even like actual referrals and stuff. I guess it would probably work even better with referrals. 49 appointments got scheduled, 17 applications, 10 pre-approvals and
two contracts in two weeks, right? From 10 clients that, you know, maybe each of them had, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 people on those lists. Right. And the other thing we did was we told them to implement a zoom strategy with those appointments. So instead of it being like a phone call, they implemented a zoom and it just really seems to be working really well too.
So those are some ways like reactivations is a powerful way if you have a list of past clients if you have a list of past leads that you haven't talked to in a while like just a simple text like hey are you still in the market to buy a home this is super easy and then there are some people that'll tell you they bought a home which sucks but that tells you that you know there was opportunities there that you missed out on yeah they'll respond to kick rocks okay whatever it is what it is or
they'll respond yeah i'm still in the market and there you you that, there know, was opportunities there that you missed out on. They'll Yeah. respond to kick rocks. Okay, whatever. It is what it is. Or they'll respond. Yeah, I'm still in the market. And there you go. Now you got some people that you can talk to. So I think that's a huge, especially we've got a good CRM that has good text capabilities. You can do it via email, but you're probably gonna get a much better response.
You can call those people too, right? You can know, I know a lot of CRMs. I don't know if you guys do, but CRMs like where you can tell if they open the email, you can tell if they, you know, got the text and stuff like that.
And then you can just call those type of people that's going to be like your warmest type people so anyway it's worked it worked really well I mean we've done that in the past when rates dropped with past clients as well so right now obviously rates haven't dropped but if they do drop that's a perfect opportunity to reach out with text reach out with email call them right like you said so anyway just some ideas that we find yeah right it's working with
what you already have you already have people that raise their hand we didn't give her to already people you've done business with yeah like make those calls first like lead gen's tough and that's like something like you spend years on and you can do it but like i mean yeah you're gonna go out there and do some ads and get a lot of business like that's tough that's almost longer term than most of them oh Oh oh Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
We tell people with lead gen, like cold leads is typically 90 to 180 days where stuff really starts to turn, right? So honestly working aged leads, like people that you, maybe you bought leads six months ago, those people were probably gonna be more ready to buy now than they were six months ago when they first opted into whatever they were doing. Just because that's how the buyer's journey works when it comes to mortgage or real estate.
Like people don't understand that the buyer's journey, we talk about top of funnel, the buyer's journey starts a lot of times, somewhere between six and 27 months, 24 months, whatever, before they actually purchase. People don't wake up in the morning and want to buy a $400,000 house and just say they're going to. They wake up, they get a cue, they see Susie down the street, bought a house. They saw a Facebook post like, man, Susie, how did you get the house? Oh, you only need a 3% down.
I thought I needed 20% down. Oh man, I can save up 15 grand. Let's do this. Okay, cool. Now all of a sudden there's a six month process. They're looking on Zillow, they're looking on realtor.com and now they're ready to buy, right? And so what most loan officers and real estate agents fail to understand, I think real estate agents do typically a better job of this because they're just used to attracting the consumers. So they usually know that they have to nurture them.
But loan officers a lot of times get referrals that are ready to buy right now. So they're like, oh, it's a 90 day cycle. That's how people buy. Well, no, that's how people buy. 100%. Yeah. Be that trusted advisor. Let them know that there's a lot of interesting programs that are there to help if they want to do anything. There could be some really creative stuff with high rates. There's a lot of leverage for loan officer. We don't really touch on our stuff too.
I think that really helps the officers as well. I agree. People who are coming to you, how can I afford something? How can I do this? Like, you know, I mean, that's where we're at right now. So there's a lot of opportunity there. A hundred percent. I agree with you. the officers as well. I agree. funny. We touched on what we had talked about earlier is that most people don't need more leads. They need to work the leads better.
So really what we just talked about is calling the leads you already have. Most likely there's deals to be had within the database that you already have, whether it is past clients or whether it be whatever leads or like as a loan officer, like, you know, hit up your real estate agent and say, Hey, do you got any leads that maybe you bought? Or, you know, maybe you bought some Zillow leads. Like if I call through them and see if I can pull anything out of them. Absolutely. Come on, man.
Yeah. There's some new programs, you know, whatever it is that you have. That's interesting. Exactly. Cool, man. Any last parting words? I mean, thank you so much for your time today. Yeah, no, it's super great to be on this. I think you summed it up perfectly. There's a lot of action opportunity to be done there. And I think that again, investing in, you know, technology and ways to streamline your process, there really isn't a better time to do it.
I know like healing aren't as flush as they were in 2021, but look, I mean, rates will come down eventually and there will be opportunities and the people that are going to, you know, really crush it are going to be people that made the investment and took the time to build out their processes now when it was a little slower. So I'd encourage people to see that as an opportunity as well. Yeah, I it sucks. This does suck.
I'm not going to deny that the last 24 months hasn't been hard, but yes, I do agree. There is an opportunity for everybody who makes it through. I mean, if you're still in the industry right now, I mean, this is being recorded in what April of 2024. If you're still in the industry, then you are a trooper. And, you know, putting those systems in place, getting yourself ready for the inevitable boom that will come maybe 12 months, 18 months, I don't know.
Whenever it does come, whenever rates do come down, there will be a boom. So just be prepared. That being said, Spencer, what is the best way that people can connect with you online, learn a little bit more about ADM or just in general, learn more about what you guys are Yeah, absolutely. Best place to learn more about ADM is to go to ThinkADM. So just think an A-I-D-I-U-M.com. You can definitely see what we've got going on online or schedule demo to take a look at it.
People that want to connect or follow me, best place is LinkedIn and happy to connect. And we love learning for our customers. We try not to have any ego in this. So if you see our platform or see things and have feedback for us, we're interested in that. So the only way we can help one officers is to hear from them as to what they need. So Cool, man. So you guys all heard that. We'll put it in the show notes as well. Thinkadium.com. Thank you so much today for your time.
My big takeaways from today, again, was leveraging technology to help your journey. But ultimately, it comes down to it's not just the only thing that's going to convert, but it is something that is important. So implement technology, work your existing leads better. I mean, I think we touched on that maybe three or four times, both your past client database and people who maybe haven't engaged people who started an application, but didn't complete it.
People who completed the application, but didn't submit their documents. Like those are all opportunities in this market. And yes, I know people are scared. People are putting things off. You never know. You know, you never know what's going to come out of that. So thank you so much for your time today, Spencer. And for anybody who is listening and is looking for some help on generating some more leads, maybe you don't got enough leads. Go to FlipTheStatusQuo.com.
Thank you so much for listening and have a great day. you for tuning into the Loans On Demand podcast on LoansOnDemandpodcast.com.