Ep 8: Sofia Valenca - Valenca Equestrian Academy, Portugal

You can find details of all our programs and shows on Rupert isaacson.com. Welcome back to Live Free, ride Free where we talk to people leading self-actualized lives finding out how they got there. What they do how they make it work. What can we learn from them? How can we take this into our daily lives? And today I've got Sophia Valenza. Now, if you are in the horse world, you may or may not know who the Valenza family are. They to some degree are a well kept secret.

If you are in the world of classical dressage you probably do know the name and if you live in Europe and you've ever seen This amazing show that goes around called Cavaluna, which is sort of like Cirque du Soleil with horses. Well, you may or may not know that they are a large part of that. If you ever were seeing some of the big equestrian shows like, Cavalia and so on in the USA these really had their inspiration from a lot of this work.

That has been done by the Valencia family over many, many years, but it's a greater story there. And it's not limited to horses and horse stuff because they represent the, the, the Valencia family really represent a culture within Europe, within Portugal that is a hangover, a survivor, you could say really from the Baroque age and.

It's almost like a national treasure that exists there in Lisbon with Sophia, her father and her sisters running this extraordinary, extraordinary place, but where they're really a bit of a dream factory.

So whether you're into horses or not, if you've, if you've had a sort of dream of a fairy tale forest and horses doing something in that, and you want to go and look at that show or you want to be part of that, or you've, that's sort of what they do and they've been doing it for decades and doing it very, very well, but it's not easy. It's the kind of thing many of us would love to do, run away with a circus, but they are the circus. So, Sophia. Thank you for coming on live free ride free.

Tell us who you are.

If you just, if you don't have the passion, it's could be a disaster because it's usually we say, if you do what you love, you don't have to work a single day in your life. And this is what I do. I don't work a single day in my life, and I live not on holidays because it's, it's quite a hard work, but it's done with a lot of passion. So, who am I? I am just a girl that grew up around animals, and I was always moved by the passion of being surrounded with animals.

Animals, not just horses, but dogs. And I was always like, you know, I was the one always bringing dogs home. I was the one only always having more connection with the horses, not just being riding them, but, you know, creating good connections. And yeah, I can, I'm able, I'm able, no, I'm fortunate to be able to have them every single day of my life. So, what we do and you were, it was really enjoyable to listen the way you describe what we do because it's, it's true.

We live like in a fairy tale. And when people come to us. It's a little bit what we provide. It's experiment, a dream, a dream that they can bring home and then start to create with their own horses. And this is a little bit what we try to do, not just with the shows, like you said, and it's not just some people come and they say, it's not just a circus, or if you come here, it's not, you will not just see the show.

You will see A real school and when I say a real school, it's not just about learning or how we. might teach you to deal with your horse or to understand or to develop a language that will help you to understand better your horse. It's also a school of life. And today we were here with some clients, a lady from the United States, and she was amazed the way we handle the horses, the way she feels how happily the horses live and how happily they work every day. That it's, it's really beautiful.

So it's, it's, it's a bless. I think it's a bless to be able to do what we do daily.

And in this old manner of doing it, which arose On the steps where Europe meets Asia 5, 000 years ago, probably, but they have a very hot type of horse and the locals, they went, well, I might be quite useful for, you know, making that an extension of my thoughts on the battlefield. I wonder how I do that. And they figured out this system.

Which got passed down, ended up in Mesopotamia with the Persians and the Babylonians and ended up going over to Greece as those guys went to war with the Europeans and then of course the Europeans took it on. As the classical civilizations of the Mediterranean, Greece and Rome mostly, expanded west, they encountered these Ibero Celtic tribes down in the southern end of what is now Spain and Portugal.

Where they found a particular kind of horse, which was even better in the battlefield, even better for working the livestock, even better for everything than the horses that originally were coming out of Persia. And so, and through the Renaissance a number of great masters developed. And if you've gone to an art gallery, you've seen pictures of monarchs. of kings and queens of Europe sitting on these very beautiful horses in the 17th and 18th century, and they all look the same.

They all have these big necks, they have these big flowy manes, they're very, very beautiful and they look like they're dancing. And that's the horse that was found in this part of the Mediterranean and ended up being exported out to the rest of Europe. And everyone ever since then has looked down to this area of Europe for the expertise in this. And This is the line that Sophia's family and Sophia's father have promulgated and create, allowed to be a living culture even to this day.

So when you enter their riding hall, you basically feel like you're going back to the 18th century. It's really extraordinary. It's like, oh my gosh, I'm in one of those paintings. It's like, oh, that sort of exists. That's real. Oh, how wonderful. How amazing. So, Sophia, tell us about this Lusitano horse. What is it? that made the Greeks, the Romans, and everybody else and their dog throughout the medieval period, throughout the renaissance, and ever since go That is the horse.

That is the meta horse. This is the horse. Why? Why is it the meta horse?

And what what happened is that this bull created a Nali, a pact living together with the horses. And this bull is very aggressive. They can live together, but they have a very fine line. If you cross that territory, the bull will attack you to kill. So this is where it starts. The men, the natural selection of these horses, these Siberian horses that are very fast, very flexible, very agile, very noble, very warriors, very brave, very.

There's so many positive aspects that when they, these warriors arrived and saw the potential of these horses for the war, they started to, to really work with those horses because in the battle one-to-one, those were the horses that could save his ride is warrior.

When the war changed and the battle one to one didn't when the, the machine guns, sorry, when the machine guns arrived, the type of horses needed in the battlefield was another type of horses, was when you have the cavalry where they need to run on a straight line because then they were charging with machine guns. So in Portugal, we still had, we, we started to use those horses for the bullfight. So that's why they always kept the same lines.

Of this horse that is very fast, very agile, very playful, very brave. And it's the same horse that is still now used in the bullfight. What bring us to keep the classical dressage is that if you use a modern dressage, training this horse in a modern way, you will. Destroy this, this beauty of these horses because what we need to always keep them updated, it's their flexibility. And with the modern dressage, they kind of ruin the flexibility the way the train is doing. So we have always.

Respect the needs of these horses to always, always respect their morphology, the way they should understand their own bodies, the way they learn how to use their own bodies. And in a very natural way, this is what we did. So we have developed our method based on the training of those horses to always respect their best qualities, which is the flexibility.

You know, it looks a bit stressy and one has seen horses looking a bit robotic. Yet you mentioned this playful nature and this, this necessity. of respecting that sort of joyful side of the horse. How do you bring that in? How do you marry that with the need for the kind of control that you have to have when you're doing these massive balletic shows that you send out all over Europe? Because they can't go wrong, right?

So we do need a horse to speak to the crowd. That horse, when it goes into the arena, He needs to speak for himself. He needs to, to be proud. He goes into the scene and he goes like, I'm here and I'm performing to you. And with the crowd needs to, to listen to that. And, and I think this is one of the.

The biggest challenge is and beauty at the same time because I prefer to have a partner that is enjoying and you know, we allowed him to express himself, then just, you know, ride a bike and no emotions. Not that they don't ride bikes and but I think mostly of you understand. I prefer it's not machines. Exactly.

It's not just, now I have this horse, and in A, I need to do this transition to, it's, you know, they need, if a horse, Goes a little bit with his head a little bit more, he can look around if he, if his ears look a little bit to the audience and then he comes back to me, it's okay to do that. It's just, they don't need to feel like a prisoner performing and not feeling the crowd.

But when we want them to express themselves in a way that we will lose their mind, because then that it's not expression then that is stress. So a horse needs to be calm, it needs to be zen, it needs to be with you, and once you have his soul, he will go to the end of the world with you, so they can perform to, well, 10, 000 people. And having lights, having the sounds and they are still enjoying and they are still there with you performing for you, with you to, to, to the audience.

And honestly, I, I think the best world nowadays, if you combine this fusion of the modern dressage with a classical way. Honestly, I think you have the best. way of being with a horse in the world. And I can bring my, my, the name of my daughter in here. She's, she's doing dressage. She loves dressage competition, but she has a very nice background on the shows. So when she performs in the dressage. And imagine she's doing a free freestyle test. It's like, it's like she's performing.

She's, she's enjoying the music and she's, it's, it's really beautiful to see because it's the fusion of this classical world with modern dressage where you respect the body of the horse. The horse has to be understand how to bring all his beauty.

And for this, and I think that the secret lies on, if you want to allow the horse to express himself, he needs to work with suppleness and using his body and not just, you know, performing like with stiffness or forcing him to do something, it's, you need to allow the horse to think on himself so that he can really bring the

And then if you really find his own way, he will be amazing doing what he was born for. That's why sometimes, you know, in the show and you have seen our shows, you see, we have the horses that perform the hairs above the ground. Not everybody is able to do a capriole. Only a few horses in the world are able to do a capriole. So when you choose a horse, and this is a very specific exercise I'm, I'm bringing here because I think it's easy to understand.

If a horse, well, how you see a horse is good to make, to perform a capriole. So first, this first behavior has to be a little bit too spicy. It has to really be very, very hot. And a little bit naughty, a little bit naughty, and then. You will use that and giving him the right tools. You will be amazing doing a Capriol. But what is important to understand is that this horse that can be a little bit hot, can be a little bit naughty, can be a little bit spicy.

Once he has the basics, you will have the power. Of telling this horse to control his own strength. Otherwise it's just a crazy horse. And unfortunately we see a lot of crazy horses out there just because people don't know how to deal with this hotness and, and sometimes it's, it's hard. And if you, you cannot just force them to do something they were not born to do.

And, and it's really important that we, we understand their nature and to explore their nature in the way that they will understand how to, to become the horse we want them to become. So this is just an example. We don't search for something special, but this horse will tell us. is special on something and then we will drive the horse to his speciality. That's why, you know, in the world you have doctors, you have mechanics, you have engineers, you have architects.

In the end, they're all people, but they have to choose their own way. And the ones that are really good in the things they have choose to be something professionally, they become very good. It's the same with the horses. So again, we will not choose them to in a certain way. They kind of tell us what they are good at, and then we try to. Give them the way in the best, in the best lines that they would, they can perform better.

And, but really high into the air and then kicking back violently, but controlled in this sort of balletic, yes, sort of martial arts type movement, kicking back with the back hooves. The front hooves are tucked up, maybe has a rider on the back. Maybe it's done with people on the ground and it's always. Something that when the crowd sees it, and any of us who've ever seen it, the explosion of power always brings an emotional reaction.

You cannot... see an animal that beautiful doing something like that without having this lift of the heart where whether you know anything about horses or not, it's it's just flat out beautiful and The could that controlled explosion of power is a very very difficult and somewhat dangerous thing to do tell us There must be a system, there must be a method, in the these old books that were written by these old masters down through the centuries.

I've looked at them, I've read actually quite a few of them. They're unreadable. Unfortunately, they were written by, you know, noblemen who were not particularly worried about editing themselves. They were certainly not trained as writers and they contradict themselves every five pages. And what they're trying to get across is if you already happen to know an awful lot about it, it's like reading a book about math written by mathematicians for mathematicians.

Because if you're outside of that closed priesthood, it's very hard to To understand what on earth they're even on about. One of the things which I found revelatory about coming into contact with the Valencia family was that I had always thought that this dressage, this classical dressage, these beautiful movements, this sort of, was something a little bit reserved for a higher priesthood of writers. Certainly that not somebody like me could achieve.

And when I walked through the door in Lisbon with you and your father, Saphir, the first time, someone said, Oh, actually, no, I can explain it. The concept is relatively simple. Okay, doing it's going to be quite difficult because we're dealing with a horse who has his own ideas and his own nervous system and his own sense of humor and you're the joke. But! Nonetheless, the concept is relatively simple. And when you guys explained it I realized, Oh my gosh, this is actually replicable.

Why isn't everyone else doing this? So can you give us the one, two, three of what this old master system, which you would now call Valencia method that you've inherited from these many centuries of equine technology, if you like, how does it work? What do you do? How do you train these horses?

So in Portugal, they start at six years old. I believe in Europe, it's a little bit the same, right? The kids go to primary school his first year around six years old. And those first four years are the most important years in the life of a student. If those four years they are weak giving their basics, they will have gaps and they go to college and some they will never finish high school. Some never be able to go to college because they don't understand because the basics are not good.

So when we start, we always like to introduce the first level. of the Valencia Method as the primary school. It's where the horse starts to develop a language that will assess him to understand you. You want to develop a simple language. So that the horse starts clearly, understand, yes, no, the basics. Once you have that, then you can start to progress. And those basics that you will start on this first stage that we are talking about.

So we usually start the horses with the age of three and a half years old. Between three and a half, four and a half, it's the best age to start. You can always start them later. But the more the horse lives in the freedom, the more difficult then it will be to start to introduce those basics. The same happens with a kid.

If you, you leave the kids starting, imagine you put a kid with 10 years old to his first year of school, you're going to be a little bit more hard for him than a kid with six years old, just because they are more greenish. They know less about life and they are more open to. Learn in a more simple way, the kid with 10 years old is already more naughty because life have taught him a little bit more things.

And then when you want to bring him to the basics on school, sometimes it's a little bit more hard, not impossible. just a little bit more hard. Before three and a half years old, we should not start because the horses, they are still growing and maturing. So the perfect age is between three and a half to four and a half. So when you start to work them, you really want the basics of the basics is the horse needs to learn that you are there as friend.

And once you have this friendship, the horse starts to respect you and the real mean of respect you. Respect. If I want the horse to respect me, I need to respect him. Otherwise, it will never respect him. Based on these feelings, you start to, to gain the, the soul of this horse and he starts to be there for you because he respects you, because you have respect him. And and then it's easy. Then once you have his respect. And again, respect not in the mean that he has to be afraid of me.

I mean the real mean of respect. I'm here for you. Let's do this. Let's start this journey. I trust you. I will go to the end of the world with you. Then, simply, you start to use your body language. You start to use your voice. You start to use a few tools, even before he knows the rider on top of them. When you have this, then you can start to progress. And the horse will start to have some tools that if for some reason he starts to be more stressful, he can rely on you.

So somehow you can down the stress because a horse under stress, he will not learn. So it's really important that we have to create tools to control the amount of stress that the horse can have. Because either you want or not, when a horse is learning something, sometimes they get confused and the way they deal with confusion. It's with stress. So we need to be able to control those stress to calm them down and then he's able to learn. So a horse under stress will never learn.

And this is really important. We develop tools to control those moments of stress.

So as soon as he's afraid of something, his first reaction is to run away. That's why they are still alive in this world. Otherwise they would be dead. So they need to have this instinct to protect themselves. So if you don't have, if you don't gain his trust, a horse will live in, in stress all the time. So this is our first lesson. It's a horse coming into the arena. And learn that we are there to be friends. He needs to respect me.

I don't want to be his best friend where he will sit on my lap. I want him to always be a horse. I want him to understand there's a line that will super me as a human being. I love you. I respect you, but you will not jump on me. This kind of respect. It's important that there's boundaries. And sometimes. It's very, very easy to let them cross this line, this boundary. And sometimes they want to be more friends than they are supposed to be.

So it's also important that we are smart enough to always design this line of. In the end of the day, I'm your friend. I trust you. I love you. But I'm still the alpha. I need you to listen. And once you really start to have this feeling of being the alpha, then you are in control. In control in a way that the horse is not afraid of you. He respects you and he will be as soon as he takes you as your alpha. You will, you will want to follow you. Why? A horse will always need a half.

That's why in, in a yard, you will erd, yard, erd, my English sometimes it's a little bit Portuguese but in, in the, how you say, erd?

It's not by fear because a good leadership cannot transmit fear because they will never have a good team working for them. So leadership is that I'm here for you. I will help you. I will guide you. I need you to trust me and I need you to follow me. So there's a few exercises that in the first lessons they will learn, which are quite hard to explain them with just the voice, because I need you to picture some images.

Into a certain point and the horse that is going on a circle, you will keep going until you will meet you on that meeting point and all the horses. that come from the field and they are afraid of the man because we are predators for them. They will stop a few meters and even if they don't want to run away because after a while they don't want to run away, but they are still not trusting you enough to go to you.

And one thing that we always explain when we give our lessons and we start to explain how we develop the method, we always say, even if the horse The horse stops like one meter away from you, and you are happy with that, but you want the horse to move forward to you. But he's not going and you say, Oh, it's just a meter. No problem.

I go to him and the horse accepts you going to him and you pat him and the horse is quite calm and did accept that you go into his world, but he was, he didn't accept, he was not trusting you enough to follow you to your own world. If you don't have this, if you to move this, that one meter to bring him to my world. I don't have the trust of this horse. So he was being the alpha. He said, I stop here. I don't trust you. You will come to me. And this is what mostly of the people do.

They go to them and they pet him. And the horse says, I got you. I make you trust you to come to my world. I don't trust you enough to go to your world. And you see, this is just a little detail that people think, Oh, he stopped there. I just go to him and it will be something that. Later on time there's a gap there and

It's the energy you put in the word. And if that doesn't work, sometimes we need what we call a ghost help. What is a ghost help is that you ask someone to go into the arena and from the behind of the horse, like a little bit far away, but the person from the behind will send the horse to move forward a little bit. That little bit that make the horse come to you, trust you, because what he will receive when he goes to you, love. When he comes to you, what you give him, you pet him.

The horse will feel your hand touching his body. And it's, it's nice. Who does not love to be pet? Right? The horses are the same. They love to be touched. They love to receive love. So they learn that when I go to her, I can trust her because she's kind. She will give me love. And, and, and I'm not giving him treats. I'm, I'm gaining his trust by the love I can give him and not just by a carrot. I don't want to buy his trust. I want him to feel what love is.

And this is how we really, and you know, after a while, this ghost, why we say ghost, because the person is there and then he's not there. The horse is sending forward. by someone that behind just said a little bit just move or it does a sound or with a whip sends him a little bit forward and we need to do this two or three times and the horse learns that he can come to me he have trust that he can come to my world

When he starts to trust you and you pet him, you have the power of control stress just by the way you touch a horse. It's like, it's like you, you can transmit that energy to him when you touch his, his neck, when you touch his eyes. Another thing when a horse comes from the field, they come very suspicious about the touch in the head. Some of them because.

They, they are in the field and, and, but the vets, they need to take care of them because they need to, to be treated because they need the vaccines because they need to, to, to, to take medicine to clean inside. And so their first contact with the men. It's not the most friendly contact because it will come this they will be in a place and then they call this this man that needs to give him an injection.

And sometimes things are changing and people are learning, but sometimes they hold their ears, so they don't move. And that can be very traumatizing for a horse when we start them to, to be there to start their journey. So it is really important that the horse. starts to allow us to touch on those parts of the body that can be more reactive to them. The ears Touching their eyes. Well, their eyes not touching their eyes. Now the vision of you. We are not touching their eyes.

But if we pack a horse, it will make them close their eyes. And somehow that can be very calm. The phrase some horses will not allowed to touch their mouth. They and especially if they are born and growing in fields with electrical fences. You see them a lot, right? To contain the paddocks. They, and all horses to learn, they need to touch that fence. And then they learn because they touch it and it's a little bit ouch. So they will not touch again.

But we start to feel that they get very sensitive on their nose because they get very like, Oh, don't touch me here because when you touch me here, I, I'm afraid of the fence. So, you know, some horses, they don't even care. When we touch them, but some others, they're very, very sensitive and the head was really it's one of the most difficult parts to to conquer their their trust. We need to be able to pet the horse everywhere.

So it's really important that we go through that phase and, and that phase it's, it's really important that we don't rush phases. If a horse is taking more time to accept you, we need to give them that time. Some horses, the day they come from the field, You can launch them, you can touch them everywhere, and some horses, after a month, you are still trying to break barriers, and barriers, and barriers. So, we cannot rush, and we need to respect the time each horse is showing you that he needs.

And, and this is really important.

And. You have this effectively living free and riding free family culture of every day you getting together with your your tribe with with your father with your sisters and Pretty and the rest of your family producing these extraordinary Animals and the teams that will go out and present them to the world, but it wasn't always so I believe I think It's always a it's always a bit easy to jump to conclusions and one would assume, Oh, well, you know, if Sophia Valencia is coming out of this family

that produces these fancy dressage horses everywhere, then they must come from, you know, a lot of money. They must be aristocrats or they must have something like that. And I know that that's not true. In fact, I know that you were actually born into quite difficult times 1974. What was happening in in Portugal in 1974, that year that you were

I was born in December, but my father that was working with horses was found in he found himself in a very hard time because he was working horses from other clients. And some of those clients, they, they, they had the money, but suddenly from one day to the other, they lost everything because suddenly if you had horses, you were considered like a rich person. And you know, as a communism thing they, they would go after you. So a lot of people that had big farms that had horses.

So suddenly they said, I need to finish all that or we are in trouble. So what happened with my father, he was not the rich person. He was just working horses because he always, I always say he had a rich life because he was able to follow his passion. So he was rich because he was doing what he loves. was being around horses and, you know, working the horses and, and follow, following this passion.

So suddenly my, I'm the youngest of three of three sisters and my father and mother, my mother, she was not working at the time. Suddenly they had no. Job and my father had a few horses, so he decided to move to Spain. So there we went to Spain in 75. I was born in December 74 and in 75 they just wait that I had a few months. So that, you know, traveling with a born baby, it's, it's not easy.

So maybe I was like four or five months when they moved to Spain and they had to start all over again, my father and mother, they had the three girls. They, we, the three of us, we were very tiny. And. But they are very strong, and I always, we always have them with a very nice example of of a couple that love each other, and and they, they believe they could just go to another country with three children, with a few horses, and, well, they did not have a dog at the time, but there we went.

And two and a half year, we lived in Spain. My father always followed his dream working with the horses, so that's what he did. He, he... He works some horses in Spain. Then we moved to this. We started in Jerez de la Frontera. My father had good friends. Don Alvaro Domecq was a good friend of him that have helped him. He was having the horses where the Spanish Riding School is. in Jerez was actually beautiful because we have been there like two weeks ago.

The, there was a show there with the four schools and we, it was nice to, for my parents to be back there and see old friends and, and it was really, really nice to, to be back there. Then after Jerez, we went to the Gran Canaria. So my father had this proposal for work there and this is where he start to gain experience with the shows.

Gran Canaria, it's an island that always worked with a lot of tourists, so it was the proposal of work there was to, to build a show with horses to entertain the tourism. So for two years, they, they did this show. We were not part of the show yet because we were really small my sisters, they were already riding horses. But not part of the show.

And then in 78, 78, the end of 78, I don't really remember the dates, they decided things were more calm in Portugal, and they decided to come back to Portugal. In 79, My father met this Spanish man in Portugal, and together they decided to do the project of the SELGE, so our writing center, the one you know, the one you have been here. And because of the experience he gained in Spain during the show, he, he could do something that was really unique in Portugal.

So we were the ones starting to create a big... events. So it was like evenings where people came and have this gala dinner with the show included. And I have to say was we were pioneers doing this kind of project and it worked really, really, really well. So it was our golden days when we came back to Portugal and then they developed this these facilities. And Was really amazing.

So bringing back for your question, we were never rich people in terms of money, because, you know, if you want to make a small fortune on horses, better to start with a big one, like everybody knows this. So we were always able to survive around horses in terms of financial, but. You know, money, it's not everything.

Of course, everybody needs money and we need money because we have a lot of forces that depend on us, but our goal in life, it's not to be rich in terms of money, but it's to be rich in terms of the passion that we have and that we are able to say that. We wake up every morning, and we do what we love. I think this is the best it's the most rich way of being in life. So there you

working in and writing in these shows, presumably you must have sort of seen this as a little girl and go, Oh, my gosh, that's just, you know, fairytale come to life. And that's my dad. And I get to be part of it. How did you how did you yourself and your sisters flow into? Becoming part of these shows and, and, and what did you do in them?

You have no idea. You just did it. So everything, it was so, so natural. And, and another thing that was so natural that nowadays I start to think that was really natural was the way we learn to do what we do. It's also natural that you don't even think what you are doing because it comes naturally because you have grown up doing it. For example, the, when you work the in hand work we, we started.

To, to train people like you do train people to work the horses on the ground or to do a little bit what we do, and we start for with the groundwork. So this is a primary thing. If you want to learn the method, you need to learn how to work the horses from the ground and. So we teach all kinds of people, people with more experience, less experience, people, older people, younger people, and they all come.

And once we start to put them on the ground with the horses and you know, it's like dancing with the horses, you just move around with the horses, cannot even walk. And you go like, but this is so easy. This is so natural. This is how can you not walk? So it's, you see, it was so natural that it just happened. So I, suddenly If I try, I'm trying to think when, when was my first show? I don't remember. I was really young.

I do remember that we missed a lot school because we were already doing the shows. And in those times, you know, you were allowed to, to miss school. It's not nowadays. If you, if your sons or daughters don't go to school, then you're in trouble because school it's mandatory until a certain age. Right. So in my time, I remember my mother sometimes was Called into school, like saying, you know, your daughters, they, they, they miss a lot, a lot school.

And my mother was like, I know, but you know, we do these shows and they do these shows and we travel the world. And this is also important. So it was a, was a really nice school of life that we were able to live and learn from it. I'm not ashamed saying I was not in college because, you know, I achieve what I achieved. Because I really had a very rich life in terms of, of seeing the world doing what we do.

And and we, we, with all the cultures of, you know, when you perform for those shows, you were performing for different cultures because we, we work with a lot of tourist people. And that also bring us... To another world, I think, was a very rich way of learning what the world is. So again, I don't remember how I started. I don't know. Was there. Was always there. Every day. Here's

And for those listeners who don't know what in hand work is, in hand work is basically where you, you teach the horse to do the stuff that you're going to do when you ride him, before you ride him. So the horse effectively understands before you add the rider what these things are, and therefore there is less stress and there's a... a smoother learning curve and that is really the basis of this of this old master master system and what different makes it different from.

just going for riding lessons and so on. It is a relatively complex thing to learn. I mean, to learn to dance with a human is complex enough and humans both speak monkey, right? So one monkey can to the other monkeys communicate in a way, even if they don't share an actual spoken language in a way that they can sort of work it out. But a horse doesn't speak monkey. And in fact, the horse regards the monkey, the upright ape with the eyes in front as a predator.

And they're a bit skeptical of us with good reason. Because It's terrible, but, you know, if you got hungry enough, you'd eat every horse in your stable. You wouldn't, if your, if your kids were gonna starve, you wouldn't be happy about it, but you'd do it. So the horse is right to be a little bit skeptical.

So, when you come to something like this, as you say so naturally, And to such a high standard where from, you know, very, very, very young, you are, as you say, traveling the world, showing what most people only dream of being able to do with horses. Now it's your job to go around the world and teach people how to do what you do. And I'm going to plug this at the end for the listeners.

You should, if you ever want to do anything meaningful with horses, you should go and work with the Valenza family. Okay. So how do you then, as a. Natural, teach someone who is not a natural. How do you bridge that gap? How do you break

And this dear friend that is actually now talking to me, Rupert Isaacson, was the person that really bring out the name of method to the Valesa method. So, How many years were you here? How many years ago? Ooh,

So if that's why everybody that comes here and even if they have experience on the groundwork, if they have not go through the Valencia method, if I want to speak the same language as this person that wants to learn the method, we need to go from the basics and we start to introduce you from the beginning because it's in the beginning. It's this basic word work that will give you the pillars.

For the future work, if you really speak the same language I'm speaking to the horse later on, we have a lesson and I can bring you to that world because we speak that same language and we are not, you know, this one is not speaking Chinese and I'm speaking Portuguese and we go like, Oh, can't you understand why? And then he speaks in Chinese and I don't understand why you don't understand if I'm speaking to you. So it's exactly the same that happens with the horses.

So. If the horse will not speak the language I want him to understand, it's more difficult to go somewhere. So, this is what the biggest change we did over the years was to become, we need to put ourselves in the place of the student. And, okay, this is natural for me. But it's not for them and if he's not able to walk, it's not because they are stupid. They are not able to walk because they are frozen and they are not understanding what we want.

So we need to stop and, you know, go into little pieces and then everything, Sorry, everything starts to make sense for them.

And that partner, so when you start to dance If you're a man and you start to dance and you know that when you use your steps of dancing it's to move forward, you know your partner needs to move backwards. Simple, right? So now let's imagine we do our partner will be the horse and we always have to bear in mind that our partner is the one that needs to move forward. Therefore, we always need to think of moving backwards. And this is the first step of learning.

It's to move backwards and inviting the horse to follow you. And then, of course, there's more things. The horse needs to be familiar. With the touches of the whip, because the whip will invite also the horse to move to you. But then also, remember on the first lessons, you were helping your horse to trust you, to follow you. So you need, that wall was already broken, right? The horse is following you. So he's no longer afraid to follow you. So all those little steps have to happen.

One after the other after the other and if you block in one step, you cannot move forward. We need to find a way to pass that step so that we can move forward. So when we do the groundwork, it's really like a dance. And in the beginning, you feel like you are Looking into your steps, seeing where you are putting your feet, and then suddenly it just comes out naturally and it's like just music. You will, you will start to dance with a, with a horse and, and it's beautiful. It's really beautiful.

That is, so I would imagine that even people that understand partner dancing quite well, if you're the person in the partner dance who's walking backwards, you're being directed, you're being led, yet you're moving backwards now in a way that is the leader, which that's an intriguing psychology.

So it will be easier for you to move backwards, right? But you know, it's, it's, it's just difficult until it becomes easier and then it's easy.

And when you do this without the horse, you just close your eyes and you imagine the horse with you and you just, you want to invite him to come backwards and what is

Oh, but I like that watch and I like this t shirt and you go from one shop to the other and On a pace that will allowed you to see the clothes that shop has in the outside

I don't know the name in English when they go like, like the natural steps. Indeed. I'm black. I don't know

It's that you need to move backwards or forward, always thinking that the horse always needs to move. in that direction. So for example, if I say, okay, now you move backwards and the horse will follow you, but now I need you to turn and move forward. The direction that the horse is moving will always be forward. Just you have to be the ability of sometimes you turn facing the horse and you go backwards. Sometimes you turn yourself and you give the back to the horse and you move.

Backwards forward. Sorry. Bear in mind, the horse will always be moving forward unless later on you want to work on more collections and you start to teach the horse to rain back. That's the different thing. That's the only moment the horse will move backwards. later on, right? So when we start to introduce the steps of the groundwork, this is what you need to be able to move backward, forward, or sideways without interfering on the pace that the horse needs to perform.

How do you know what your body needs to feel when you perform a shouldering? Correct.

Later there'll have to be another one for the, for the outside hind leg to come under, but it's one of the foundation exercises that you see in the horse training world and it's not easy. So back to you. Okay. So someone is trying to learn a shoulder in, but they've Never felt it. Never seen it. Never done it. Yeah. How, how can they learn it? Yeah.

You know what I'm saying, because you, you understand dressage. So for those who don't understand dressage, maybe you should bring another example. But just so that. We need to be fair teaching our horses. We need at least to have felt them at least once in our lifetime. So that at. You will become much more fair when asking to the horse the feeling you are searching for him to give

And I noticed that when the rhythm of the horse was dance, like what people call collected, he spoke more. And then I noticed that this happened with other kids as well. And then I thought, okay, why is this happening? So I went to. Neuroscientists and they said, Oh, it's because when the hips rock in this way, in this soft way, the child is getting filled with a communication hormone and a feel good hormone called oxytocin. I go, Oh, Oh, well, okay. Well then I need to learn more about this.

So then I began this research journey. And as you say, I started learning. And even with my background in horses, I found that people's explanations were incredibly unclear. And what happened was they would sit you on your horse. who also didn't know it. And then they would try to tell you and the horse at the same time, how to do something that neither of you knew. And I could see immediately just on a practical level, well, that that's just not going to work very well. What do I do?

And so I started asking people. Okay, if you're in my position and you need to learn this thing that everyone says is impossible to learn in under 500 years in a bit of a hurry, where would you go? What would you do? And then everybody said that was a professional in the field that I asked, they said, Oh, you should go to Portugal. I said, but why?

And as you pointed out, they said, ah, because of the Portuguese bullfight, they still train the riders there from the get go on educated horses, and then gradually bring the rider up to that level where they can educate a horse. And they do a lot of the work from the ground. I thought, Oh, that makes sense. And then of course, I went down to Portugal, found it was true. And then this name kept coming up Valenza, Valenza, and.

People saying, well, if you really want to learn, like if you really, really, really like really want to learn, not just like a bit learn, but like actually learn, you got to go to this family because they're doing it in the purest form. And I said to them, well, why is that then? Why are they so good? And it was pointed out to me that your dad and you guys had to not just train these horses.

To work in a normal context like a riding school or or a competition had to go out For three to six months of the year two thousand kilometers away up in Germany and do this show that went around Seven months seven months. Okay do this show in front of the most critical audience in the world the Germans where you're not allowed, you're not allowed to suck. You can't, you can't have a bad day, you know, they'll, they'll, they'll eat you alive.

And they're, they're an educated audience when it comes to horse stuff. It's an, you know, it's a horse culture and you cannot suck. You, you've got to, you've got, your dad has to sleep at night, knowing that that show is going to work and he's not going to lose the contract. Because if he loses the contract, he can't feed his family. And he's got to, if a rider falls sick, he's got to replace that rider. If a horse has a problem, he's got to be able to replace that horse.

And I thought that's the person, those are the people I need to learn from because what they're doing is they're creating a universal horse. They're not just creating a horse that an expert can ride. They're creating a horse that. Can go out and do something like this. That means there must be some secret to the training. Of course, I went and found it was true. You guys are geniuses. Where I want to bring people into your world a little bit.

Whether they're horse people or not, let's say they've dropped now into your riding arena and you've taught them these first steps of the dance in this Vivaldi type adagio, you know, moving backwards, one, two, three, four, inviting us moving forwards, one, two, three, four, inviting the horse moving to the side, one, two, three, four, inviting and directing the horse. Once they've learned to do some of this at the walk, what comes next? What's the next thing you teach them

You need the horses to work from the ground because you need to prepare them and then to to more collected work, but still with assistance from the ground when you work with the kids on the program. So that's, that's a very good tool for you. When we don't like too much to teach trot and canta from the ground, just because you will start to, to give, it will be a more difficult journey to do it by yourself. When you go to trot on the ground, you start to go away from the rhythm of the horse.

Some horses have big trots, some have less big trots, but the horse to work in a good tempo in trot to develop well his rhythm, that one, two, one, two, it's a bigger pace, right? More difficult to follow him from the ground. So when we start, so in very, very easy, I tell you in a very easy way how we develop a young horse. So the first month It will be 70 80 percent groundwork and then the 30 or 20 percent that we do the written work is just so that he gets used to have a rider on top of him.

We are not develop the horse with the rider is not developing the horse with the written work. So we do launch work. Groundwork the groundwork is a little bit that kind of a dance that will work his flexibility and then the rider sit on him, but the horse is still controlled by the person on the ground.

The horse can, is ready to move on, so he says, like, I'm okay with you being on top of me, I don't care that you are there, I accept you, I'm not tense, I, it's cool, I can do what a srot hunter, and I don't feel that, what are you doing there, what are you doing there, so he accepts me. The horse can start to be loosened from the launch work. That means that the person that is launching the horse on the ground starts to become the ghost help. What does that mean?

He's still there, but he's not there. So he's still giving his presence from the ground, but the horse is being more controlled now by the rider on top of him. Now

So that's what lunging means. Lunging means that the person there's a person in a center of the circle. There's a lunge that will connect the person to the head of the horse and the horse that imagine a compass, you know, that things to draw a compass. There's, there's one leg of the compass, which is the rider on the center of the circle. And the other leg of the, of the compass, it's the horse. And by going on a circle, we'll, we'll perform that perfect line that a compass can draw on a paper.

It's exactly what we want when we launch a horse to create a perfect circle. So, later on, the horse starts to be. more controlled by the rider on top of him. How that happens? Because we start to develop contact. The contact is developed through a snaffle that he will use on his mouth, connected with the reins that will hold then on the rider's hand. And so before the horse knows what the reins means, he is Connected with the person on the, on the ground with the lunge.

And then when he starts to be aware that there's a contact, there's the right train, there's a left train, this person on the ground starts to have a less presence in the work. This is when we start to call this presence ghost. Is there? Is not there. Is there? Is not there. And progressively, there's a passage of the learning aids that the horse has. learn from the groundwork to the rhythm work. And each horse we have will have his own time.

Some horses, they start to be less dependent from the person on the ground easily than others. So again, we always need to respect those timings. And if a horse is still very dependent from the groundwork, it's because it still needs to be more more confirmed. On what he's learning so that we can give him always good basics. If we rush steps, we will create gaps and those gaps later on, we will fill them. It's like if you learn math, you know, two plus two is four.

But when you start to put the things more complex, if you keep going and putting things more complex, more complex, the person that is following the math, it will collapse. So sometimes we need to go back a few steps so that we can move. more, more, more steps. And, and again, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's hard to explain it. Such a long process of learning curve in, in, you know, in, in a few, in a few hours. It's, it's not easy.

Back him out. Do something else, yeah. One of the things which stands out when you say you talk about the importance of the circle is a couple of things and earlier you said that your school in Portugal that it's not just a school of horsemanship, it's a school of life. One of the curious things about the literature of the old masters is that this correlation is parallel.

Between the dressage of the horse and emotional regulation in the human seems to have been noticed from the get go in there is, there was a Greek writer who wrote the first manual of horsemanship that we know of in Europe. Of course, it's not a European tradition. It goes back before. I found out that the first exercises that you were describing actually were written down as the first ones that we've ever found were found written in cuneiform script.

In on clay tablets in Nineveh in Babylon from 1375 BC, describing exactly what you described, Sophia, and we even know the name of the man who wrote them. His name was Kikuli because he signed these clay tablets and he was managing the stables of the Royal Hittite Kings in Babylon at the time. So clearly we're dealing with.

Something that's been functioning for a while, you know, millennia, not just centuries, but when it came to Europe after the wars of the Greeks and the Persians, there was a man called Xenophon who wrote what we know as the first manual in a European language. And what's interesting about Xenophon is he wasn't just a horseman.

He was a philosopher and he was a friend of a man called Socrates and he was a friend of another man called Plato and a lot of philosophers know Xenophon not for his writing work at all. But for his philosophy, which is very similar to platonic, but what they don't know is that he was actually a mercenary. And that he worked for the Persians who were actually the enemy. So like working for Wagner or something, because they were the ones who had these skills.

And then he brought them back after he finished. Working for the Persians and what fought for the Athenians again and opened a writing school and wrote a book. And he actually said, I'm not the best at this. The best is a guy called Simon who has a writing school down the road, but he doesn't want to write a book. So I'm going to write the book. So, Hey, and he writes this book describing many of the same things that you've described.

But he draws this parallel as well between the circle as a sort of sacred geometry of transformation, almost like a sacred mathematics. through which the horse and the rider learn to balance themselves and not fall over and find their rhythm and learn how to carry themselves to the point where they could go into battle and become one mind. And this business of schooling the mind then comes up again in the, in the 17th century, there was a very famous French horseman called Pluvinel.

Who established the whole thing in France, and he went to the French king and said, our, our nobility are out of control. We've had 150 years of civil war, all our, all the aristocratic youth, they just fight duels with each other. They kill each other. And then the estates never have stability. And then they go fight private wars with each other. And if we keep going like this, we will never be able to push Spain. off the top of the pyramid where it's sitting right now.

For this, we need to get control of our young men, of our nobility. I propose four riding academies in France, in which they're also taught mathematics and fencing and dance and astronomy and, but, but music, but specifically horsemanship because of the need for emotional control. What do you have to say about that? You, you talked about the school of life there. at your, at SELGE, your, which is the name of your, the acronym for your riding school. Tell us about this emotional regulation.

Tell us about this school of life.

And Rupert, you have been here, you know how much we respect each other. In this world, there's a lot of, especially in this dressage world, there's a lot of egos, like I'm better than you are. And the people go to the competition tests and it's always about I'm better than you. And it's not about themselves, but it's like proving to the others that I'm better than you. And this is something you will not feel at our home.

It's like, there's a respect for the work of each other that This is what I think it's really what will bring a good team. If I'm, if I'm doing something and I need help, I will be the first one to ask either my sisters, either my colleague that it's next there, or my father, of course, and we go very in a very humble way saying, you know, I'm dealing with this problem. What do you think? What are you seeing that I'm not seeing? How can I be better?

And, you know, my sister, she jumps and she goes like, show me, show me what you're doing, show me. And then, ah, maybe it's this, or maybe it's that, or maybe it's that. And this formula, it's what will bring you to success, success, success, success and it's not just about the horses, it's just, you know, we. I'm 40, almost 49 years old. My sister, she's 40, 52. My other sister, she's 50. We still, every day, sit at the table with my parents.

Every day, every day from at one o'clock, we go home, we sit, we have lunch and we talk about, well, always about horses, of course, but you know, just because we are paranoid about horses, but it's everything like in a very nice way. Always to become better every day. We want to be better than the day before. And every day we want to teach the people that work with us.

To be better than we are, you know, it's it's the biggest proud we we have is to see riders that have started my father riders that have start with us, either myself or my sisters, and that nowadays they are teaching and they are immediately you see the lines, the way they work, the way they teach.

It's like you see yourselves and And this is, I think it's the most beautiful homage people can give us, is that if I teach someone and he becomes better than I am, then was a good, was a good way of being in life. It's always about trying to, we, we, we, what we do, it's not a secret. What we do, it's on the benefit of each horse. In the world. So if we are helping people to understand better their horses, so why not give them the tools? that it's not a secret.

We don't want to bring that to, to the, to the, to our coffin. We don't want to put it in a book that only when we die, everybody will see about it. We want it to pass in life. And every day the horses will teach you new things because, you know, it's a, it's a learning curve. You, you learn every day you are learning something new. And and if we are really helping people to understand better their horses, then, you know, I think it's a good, it's, there's no egos here.

There's not this thing, I'm better than you are. There's this thing, you know, let's do this together because we will become stronger if we go together on the same, on the same way.

We'll see you, you know, back in the afternoon you, it was like, no, no, come to lunch, come to lunch with us and engage in the conversations. That we are engaging in and share with us this family, this tribal, this clan life. And if one traces back the whole lineage with horses, one sees, Oh yes. Well, it came from tribes. It was a tribal thing. It was granddad and grandma transmitting the knowledge.

To the next generation, to the next generation and the young people up on the young horses, because it didn't matter if they got thrown off because they're made of rubber and the older people who don't bounce anymore, you know, with the knowledge directing and the knowledge being passed on in this familial really friendly way. Not an authoritarian way.

And then of course, in the modern world, so many places where one goes to try and acquire knowledge, whether it doesn't have to be writing, it could be. It could be a musical college, it could be any university, it could be business school. So often the transmission of the knowledge is done in this top down hierarchical way.

Which of course is never as good and I remember one of the first lessons I ever had from your father When I at the end of the lesson, I said, oh, thank you for the lesson He said I know Rupert that wasn't a lesson that was simply a conversation about a particular aspect aspect of equestrianism and that's let's continue talking about this over lunch and it blew my mind because everywhere else I had been the the the transmission had been much more militarized because of course You know, so much of

riding particularly has come down through the military tradition. This thing of, and then, and then, as, as one meets the other people who've kind of gone through contact with the Valencia school, a lot of them support each other and remain in touch. And then those of us that now run riding schools of our own, we always end up sending our people down to you.

You know, it's that logical thing where we say, well, you know, at a certain point, really, you shouldn't be learning from me, you should be learning from my teacher. And that there's this very easy flow to the whole thing, which really comes down to family and tribe. And it seems to me that family and tribe, it's one of the great lost ethics, really, of our modern age. Do you feel that in Portugal that is just simply stronger?

Or do you think that your family and what you do, it's even within Portugal, it's something a bit exceptional? You know? Well,

I need to be a little bit more smart because, you know, I'm, I'm the smallest one. And. And this, because this is a little bit the nature of the human being, it's a little bit like unfortunately, it's a little bit part of the nature of human animals. They don't have this kind of feelings, right? There's, there's a dog is not, it's not it does not want to be better than him.

It's just, maybe he wants to be the, the leader, but not always he is able to be the leader, but it's, you understand what I mean? They don't have this. This, this kind of feelings that is only part of the human being, and that's why I think they really were very smart. And again, don't ask me how they did it because it was so natural. I don't even know. It's just, it's just there, but you know, my father, a lot of you that have listened my father's name.

It's like, for example, today, and it, it, it just happened today, he was on the phone with this Spanish man and because he was just asking, he saw a horse in, in in a public thing. And so he was calling this man saying, Oh, I see this horse and you know, I'm looking for the horse with this aspect and this, and and the man was asking him, yes, but where do you live? This, all this in Spanish. And then my father said, I live in Portugal. Him in a very humble way. I live in Portugal.

I have a writing center. Yes. What's your name? I, my name is Felice Valenza. And the man goes like, what? You're not Felice Valenza. You are Don Luis Valenza. So the man knew him and he was being so humble because, you know, he was not, you know, I'm Luis Valenza. Like he was like, no, I'm just, I'm just me. And it was really funny because sometimes.

People think he's in a pedestal and he's not reachable, and then you arrive in our facility, and maybe he's doing the garden, or, you know, or putting water in the arena, or painting a wall because it was dirty, or, You know, it's the most humbled man that I have ever met and, and I, it's, I think this is beautiful because, and if you go to him and you say, you are the greatest master, it just shrinks himself. And he says, no, I'm just a person that every day tries to be better than yesterday.

And every day I, and you know, my father is now 77 years old. And nowadays, if there's a horse that arrives, and he goes, you know, a little bit more complicated because he needs to be, you know, the basics are not there, and the horse is a little bit more complex because the horse is lost, that night, he will not sleep. Or if he sleeps, He will dream about what he will do the day after. How can I help this horse? How can I help this horse to become better?

How can I help this horse to understand what I want? So it, and he's 77 years old. And this is what real still drives him every day. To jump out from bed. And he's the first one to arrive at the facility is not the last one to leave because it's like the chickens when the sun goes down, he likes to go to his home, but it's amazing.

It's amazing that the passion every day he has to be there with the horses, and I think this is, this is very, this is very nice and unique and and every day it gives us. Lessons of life and and I just hope to be as wise as he is passing all these values to my, to my son, my daughters and well, if, if I, if I was able to be half of what he is, I was already very proud of myself.

She, she was bitten by the bug and she's like horse crazy, like as crazy as we are. But then I have Beatrice. She's a biologist. And then I have Francisco. That is still a 12 years old kid that has no idea what he wants to go to be when he grow up. But as a tribe, as you mentioned, a tribe will work with, with a direction of bringing a project all together. A tribe thinks in a simple way, effective way. But with the same purpose.

So for example, I give you the example of my side of my family, the one that I have built. I choose for a man that I have married, a man that has nothing to do with horses. I do not regret it. And just because. He accepts who I am because he has the same passion for what he does.

So he does understand there's, there's this craziness about something that make us work every day, every single day, without stopping and without, you know, there's no weekends, but he has the same passion for what he does has nothing to do with horses, but he, he, he, he understands. But then I was lucky. Because he also has this passion for something else.

So he understands, because if I had a person in my life that would not accept what I do, then the function of, of bringing a tribe was not possible. So it's not just what we do or what my parents have created. They were lucky because the three of us, we wanted to do this. So building this tribe, you know, all the ingredients were there. So will I be enough bringing the tribe and having the tribe together like my parents were able to do with us?

I don't know, because, you know, Beatrice, one day she will want to maybe go abroad and be a biologist, a biologic, or a scientist, I don't know, in German, or in China. I don't know. She will no longer be here, closer to us. My son, I have no idea. I know Ines, she will, she will keep doing what we do, but I think the, the ingredients to the success of, of what we did was because we always, we were all crazy about the same thing. And so you understand

What's his passion?

He's crazy about, he needs to train every day. He needs to be doing something related with sports. He don't know the difference between a donkey and the horse, even if we are together for 28 years old years, but is, is he always have accept and respect and he share. He is happy that I have this passion because he also, he understands because he also have a passion for another world. So he understands because some people, they don't understand why we are so crazy about what we do.

You know, you, you, your houses are, you know, very close to each other, same bit of land on that hillside, overlooking the river. All very lovely. You're, you're still meeting for lunch every day. Even the ones who are, you know, your husband's coming up from the water, you're coming up from the riding arena. and you're exchanging. So is the, and then you say, as you know, Beatrice, she's not, doesn't care from horses.

But she's loves the animal world, but she's going to go a different direction. But two words kept coming up in, in, in, in, in this podcast. One is respect. The other one is passion. So is the, is the way to find your tribe. So for example, you and your husband have found your own tribe within the tribe, which one of you has this thing with the horse. One of you has this thing with.

with the water, but both of you give each other the space to perform that, because ultimately you respect the each other value. Well, also you see the value in, in, in, in this passion and this endeavor for its own sake, no matter what it is. Is that the key?

Is that the key to the functioning tribe, going back to this idea of, you know, horses and the humanities and these riding schools in the Renaissance where people were engaging with it as much for emotional regulation, to train people to be courtiers and diplomats, not just warriors, et cetera, et cetera. Is this what it boils down to? Is it passion and then respect for other people's passions?

And if you don't have a passion in life, what makes you wake up in the morning?

Maybe this dream is a little girl's dream about riding a horse. Maybe it's, somebody else's dream about putting on a show or dance. Maybe it's somebody else's dream about being a biologist or, or being a a kayaker. But at some point before the passion, there has to be a dream, doesn't there?

Sometimes he dreams about the horse is going to train the next day because it makes it's because it's a passion. It's it's, we are, we are quite crazy about it. Right? So you need to dream. And if you don't dream, you will not be motivated. We need to dream. I need to dream to be, to what do I want in the future? You need to dream. When you think about the future, you are dreaming somehow because you are not yet there. But you are already imagined, what if I was there? So you are dreaming.

So every, everybody dreams about something. Everybody dreams about the future. It's all related with passion. Everything is connected. Everything is connected.

I know it's hard because, you know, I know in the end of the month, I really need to be careful because, you know, the horses, you can make money, but they eat more than what they create. So. But, you know, one day my father gave an example to someone, a father of some children, that they wanted to follow their dreams. And nowadays they are very important riders in the world. And this parent, he was very concerned because the kids, and we are talking like 40 years ago.

So those kids, they wanted to follow their passion, which was working with horses. And this parent, he was very concerned with the future of these kids. And my father said to this, to this father, you know, better if they eat soup, but they are happy. Then they eat lobster, but they are unhappy. And this sentence always stayed inside of my mind. Because, you know, we only live once. And we really should do what make us happy.

And if we are able to survive doing what make us happy, then life was enough.

But they did respect the time and effort and passion that I put into it. And although it mystified them, they. They encouraged the show that you guys put on. The current one, Cavaluna, the last time I saw it what I realized was that, yeah, of course the audiences and there's, you know, hundreds of thousands of people that come and see this show. It's, it's an amazing show. It is like Cirque du Soleil with horses.

What initially makes them want to come is that they're going to see amazing horsemanship. They're going to see amazing stuff. They're going to have, there's going to be a wow factor, but of course, every show that you guys put on has a story. As a narrative that goes through, that carries each act, each number, you know, through so there's a logical progression. A story is told with a beginning, middle and end with characters on some sort of fairy tale, on some sort of quest.

Facing dilemmas, finding resolution. There happen to be horses involved, but there's also dancers, there's also musicians, and it's a story that would hold up just as well if there were no horses involved. It just happens to, that the acting is done with actors with four legs as well as actors with two. You guys are really a dream factory, aren't you? You, you, you, you hatch these dreams.

You put these dreams on for the wider world, but yet if people want to come and participate, In the nuts and bolts, as you've been describing, Valencia Method, how you put these horses together to tell the stories of these dreams. Well, they can come and do that too. They can come and engage at every level in the dream.

So like every week, we somehow they remind us. how cool we are doing what we do. So I think, yes, I think we, that's what we do. We, we make dreams come true. I think it's really, especially our horses, we are just the interpreter of the horses. You know, our school masters are the ones that really make dreams

Does the horse have consent in this? Should we even own animals at all? Should we own a dog? You know, for people of my generation, this is a bit of a new thing. You're talking about dreams and setting people free. I believe that this happens for the horse as well. So for example, your work has helped me work with special needs.

Children and people with the horse moving underneath them in a way that transmits well being and helps with communication But because in my world a lot of the horses that come to the centers that we help to create For the work with autism and other special needs. These are horses that are donated These are often horses that are not bought and of course they're donated for a reason because they're usually a bit broken because People don't give away their best horses.

They, you know, give away horses that they've messed up and One of the things which I have discovered But I think you're well aware of but I don't think it comes up so much in the conversations That people come to you with is the rehabilitation of horses I would say that your method the Valencia method I use it Daily to help bring horses to well being and a lot of those horses that come to me come broken they come broken in the body they come broken in the mind and By working through the

patterns that you guys have shown me I've seen I've lost count now of the number of horses that have come to this well being which one would always hope for, but it's, it's such a radical transformation in the horse, mentally and emotionally, as well as physically. Has this become a greater and greater part of the conversation around your work?

If the horse is not feeling well, you will not lie. You will not be like performing, Oh, it's a client. I need to make her happy. Let's just pretend I'm happy. You don't have this. The horse is happy because it's feeling good. And we have, I think also because the same way you have you know, sometimes we find horses that are It's like giving them a chance of another life. And a lot of horses that we, we use as co masters are horses that had a life before and not always that life was good.

So a lot of horses have arrived to us, you know, you know, what is a horse with no soul? It's like this, you look into his eye and it's empty. It's an empty eye and, you know, after a month or two, you start to feel that that horse finally has a soul. It was just deep inside of him and, and I think the horses, they feel really, it's like they feel appreciated. They, they feel the gratitude of having that a second life. There's, I think, a horse that had a previous life.

That was not the best life. Once he experiments the good life, that horse is, it's like, it's a, how you say, it's appreciated. It's a, no, it's grateful. It's grateful. Grateful. Well, that,

And yeah, it's, it's a good life to say. But remember when you said a lot of people say, should we be riding a horse or should we do? Having a dog, I could, I cannot imagine my life without an animal and I have 12 dogs as yes, you know, I have a lot of animals that I need to be surrounded and, and remember when I said when we start to work a horse, we start to study him in what he will be good at a horse is much happier if you have a purpose in life.

And then a horse that lives a lifetime in a paddock with no goals in life, a horse that lives in a paddock, just eating. It's a more unhappy horse than a horse that attention. We need to provide him a good life. It's not not just forcing a horse to do what he's not meant to do. But if that horse. That you are trying to train, that you are respecting, that you are trying to reach in what he's good at. If his life is good at doing trail rides, he will be the most happier horse doing trail rides.

If he's good in the ring doing dressage, he will be the best horse doing dressage. If he's good doing... I don't know. Working accreditation, he will be happy because he has a job. He has, he has, he's not depressed. I have seen a lot of horses that, you know, they're just there and they feel like they're not as happy. It's the same with people. You know, if we don't have a purpose, we become more depressive. We need to have a purpose in life.

And of course, each breed has its own skills, but they need, they need to feel that they have a purpose in life, even if it's just to make you happy. That's the purpose. To make

And if this is missing from our lives, human or animal, as you say we become depressed. And I think your point about purposes is very, very true purpose and service. Not servitude, not being a servant, but service, which, which is the choice, the choosing because I've watched you working with your horses. I've a horse that they're not forced to do anything. They, they do it and, and, and the, the overall impression.

One comes away with on a heart level, not just an intellectual level, but on a heart level is joy. I don't think I, to the listeners. If you're not horsey, it doesn't matter. Go to the living museum. That is the Valencia's riding stables in, in, uh, Lisbon. You don't need to be an artist or an art historian to appreciate a trip around the National Gallery. And you don't need to be an architect to appreciate a beautiful building.

And the history behind it, and you don't need to be a chef to know good food when you eat it. You don't need to be a vintner to appreciate good wine. Beauty in art, when you see it, always stands out. And this living equestrian art, which still exists and has come down to us through the centuries and the millennia, and is still being practiced and presented in this way. It's worth seeing just for itself.

When you go into the Valencia's riding arena, it's It's Baroque, the pictures on the wall, the art, the feel, but also there's a tribune. There's a place where you can sit just to watch just in the same way. If you go to the Spanish riding school in Vienna, you can just sit in the balcony and watch as they work with the horses and practice their art, practice their living art in front of you.

Do yourself a favor when you go down to Lisbon next time, include that as part of your cultural experience. And I think you're going to find that you come away with a feeling of joy and participation in that tribe, not just the cultural interest of the whole thing that will surprise you. So if people want to do this Sophia, how do they get in contact with you? How do they, how can they find their way to this temple of the horse that is

So the clinics, it's usually it works like two days or three days clinics and where we will set a place and people travel with their horses there and then we just do a clinic there.

We'll bring you to our facility we will take care of you and you will not feel lonely and You will be part of the family.

These include easy to do online courses and tutorials that bring you and your horse joy. For an overview of all shows and programs, go to rupert isaacson.com. See you on the next show. And please remember to press, subscribe and share.