Jennifer Grey: Funner is Funner (Re-Release)

Better read in Franks boek. Outlanders strid genom tiden. går mot ett episkt. And the games. Streama sista säsongen exklusivt på via. Hi, how are you? Yeah. There's no reason to complain. It's a choice and it's funner. Hello, welcome to literally It Is Me, Roblo, or It Is I, Roblo. I don't know which

I my mother would have known sh it is me, Roblo? Somebody can call in to the low down line and let me know which it is. Anyway, I'm here. And today we have one of my Oldest pals, Jennifer Gray. Baby. She has seen and done it. all. Red Dawn, Ferris Buller's Day Off. Um she has a great book out about her life out of the corner. She's I mean, from growing up with Joel Gray winning the Academy Award for cabaret to

Finding her way through Hollywood, through so many different things, really, really interesting life, really, really interesting person and super funny and and and a a warning. She and I are very silly together. So I I'm just apologizing in advance for the silliness that will will ensue. We'll try to behave ourselves. Jennifer Gray. Funner is a word, right? It is for me. Is it for you? My English teacher mom, God bless her soul, would would say, No, it's more fun. It's not funner. Right.

Literally. You know what? It's funner when you say it. You feel'cause it's wrong. Um, I have to compliment you on your glasses that you're wearing. Um dear listener, she's wearing like kind of Robert Redford nineteen seventies Ron Galela paparazzi photo. Google that. Yes, thank you. It's i w basically what I'm saying it's handsome, powerful Entertainment figure Circa nineteen seventy one. Yeah, just round the time that I was like, you know, getting into trouble.

At the Dalton School. Oh no, Dalton School was seventy like four. Seventy one was Malibu still. Where so where were you living in Malibu? I was living in on old Malibu Road and in the colony we had rentals and so we would like move just in little furnished rentals. It was funky, you know. You were you there then? I was there in s I got to Malibu in seventy six.

Oh, so we just missed each other. Um, so I was you went to Webster? No, I I went to Malibu Park Junior High. I got there in the Me too, but Webster was six. And Web I went to Malibu Park Junior High in seventh. I d that's so crazy though. Well did you really read the book or did you skim it?'Cause it's all written about

Well how many Come on dude. Come on. I looked for yourself. You looked for yourself. I mostly looked for myself. Yeah, and you didn't find yourself. And you know what? You you got off light. I g I g I got off light. I I I owe you big time. No, of course I read the book. Well there's a whole thing about Malibu Park Junior High and the spin the bottle and my first kiss and all the kids. Okay, who was your first kiss? Maybe I know him. Mark Buck.

Mark Bottom. Oh,'cause'cause I'm older than you. But we both had Mr. Vincent at Malibu Park, right? Who was the legendary history teacher? He was the best. It was social studies, I think we called it, right? Social studies in those days. He was incredible. Everybody loved him. He was a one of those amazing teachers that changed people's lives and made you feel seen and smart and at least made me feel seen and smart and just felt so

lucky to have him in a public school in Malibu in the seventies, which was really the Wild West, wasn't it? It was the Wild West. And so in s in Malibu Park Junior High, we w it was seventh, eighth, ninth grade. If we include you, who was a couple years different time frame I was in Sean's class. So would in you, Sean Penn Charlie Sheen. Was Charlie in your class?

He was a year younger, two years younger than me. Emilio Esteves. As he was your age, right? He was a year older. Okay. Um you were the you were the the cream in the sandwich, the Oreo cookie. I was um Uh who else? Holly Robinson, repeat. Um there was a young actress named Daniel Spencer who was on a big sitcom. Was it What's Happening? She was on. Something like that. And I think Rob I I know Robert Downey Jr. was went to my high school. I don't know if he was actually at

Malibu Park. Did you guys go to did you guys go to Pali or Samo? S Santa Monica High School. Samo. Yeah, it's it's Malibu in the s in that I'm in fact I'm I'm I it's my great obsession. trying to figure out how to tell the story of what Malibu was in in the why don't you read that chapter more carefully and you might feel like

You don't have to because I really describe the Straw Hat Pizza Okay, okay. Okay, the Swensons. Dude, you were you know what you were looking for? You were looking for some clickbait names in there. That's what you were doing. And you found'em. But what you didn't do is you didn't really just luxuriate in Straw Hat, Pizza Parlour, Market Basket Oh the Market Basket and Swenson's uh and Malibu Cinema. Those things popped up while I was there.

And how about the Malibu coffee shop? Oh yeah. Colony. The Colony Coffee Shop where you'd go to get like the cheeseburger and shake or like for the special treat? Oh I I worked at the um my f very first paying job was at the Malibu cinema. Stop it. Tell me, tell me, what happened? I know nothing. I didn't work there. So so the Malibu cinema in those days what was amazing about it and this is

People think Malibu fancy movie star, Hollywood Oh, it was so not fancy. So not and so not Hollywood. We wouldn't get a movie at the Malibu cinema until it had been out for months. I mean months. Months. Months. I love it. I love it. And to the guy's credit who ran it, he hired local Malibu teens. So Holly Robinson ran the uh concession stand. Come on. Oh yeah, one hundred percent. And Piper, her friend Piper, who is another great

fun girl that went we all went to school with. They ran sort of the tickets and concessions and I threaded the projector. And the Wait, is that is that a euphemism? I I w I threat it was a platter system. I thought it would be like threading a projector in like at school where's like a s like it's not. It's it's a platter, it's on a big plate, it's very, very complicated. And you know me, I am the least handy

human. You have a lot of crazy skills. I wouldn't be calling you for handy. No. Would you trust me to thread a f fucking projector? For a packed house. The pressure was on, right? Oh, the pressure was on. And one night, I'll never forget, the movie was d Agatha. Dustin Hoffman. The very well known Dustin Hoffman movie, Agatha. Um Google that one. Why do I love you so much?

Yeah. I love you too. This is gonna be so this will be the longest podcast I've ever done because we've got s we have so much to talk about. Um anyway, I threaded the the the reels of the movie in the wrong order. Ah, you did not. I did. It's a thriller'cause it's Agatha. It's the thriller. And Whoa, that's crazy. So the

last reel of the movie played somewhere in the middle of the movie. Oh stop it. And the you know, incl complete with ending credits. That's insane. And then, you know, the it and then the curtains closed because the movie's over, and then the curtains opened and it went back to The middle of the movie, I got fired immediately. Stop it. That's the craziest shit I've ever heard. Yeah, I was not good at that. I also got fired from being a uh a busboy at the Nantucket Light.

Oh man, I remember that place. I can picture the logo right now on PCH. It's now what's more it's Nobu. It's now Nobu. And what and and Chart House was and Moon Shadows. Is Moon Shadows Moon Shadow what Noble was now? Mo, Moon Shadows is still exist in the same place.

Do you remember there was Chart House and Moon Shadows was kinda like the only game in town and then I guess Nantucket Light, which I didn't know about. Which is of course is the only place that hired me. I didn't I I I applied all places. And the fancy pants were like no.

No. I wasn't afraid never been afraid of it. Your mom was a teacher. Yeah, I was always a I was I've worked since I was fifteen. I just got fired from everything other than anything show business related. Everything. Yeah, I got fired sometimes too, but Yeah, I dro I drop I dropped this uh record producer, the ham hocks, at this um soul food restaurant that I was working at in the theater district in New York.

they rinsed them off and put them back on a plate and fired me and told me I had to pay for the plates. Ooh. You weren't c you weren't cut out for that kind of shit. You know what? I waitressed so many years. So many years and was ne and never improved. And I I was working at the saloon on you know, everyone was on skates and I I can't add. I mean, I just couldn't ha handle the big the pressure of the you know, the Lincoln Center rush. Yeah, waiting tables is no joke. It is really hard.

The no, it is ri super hard. Did you ever do it? I never got that far. I never got I never got it. I was a bus boy. Oh yeah. I was a bus boy at the Cottonwood Cafe. I couldn't get the real gig. I had to like, you know, pay my dues in the kitchen, expediting. Oh. Never made it. Never graduated to waiter. And there was a great and there was a um Holly Robinson's uh mother, Dolores Robinson, was a huge

um manager of actors. And I would I would slip her notes when she would come in, get me out of here. Seriously? Mm-hmm. Like with an exclamation point like scrawled like s like like somebody like who'd been like it was Jo like a kidnapped. Like Jonestown. Oh no, that's so funny. When they slipped the notes to the

All right, there's so much to talk about. Where do we begin? Um, first of all, I believe I saw your father in a Kenley Players production. Is that possible? One hundred percent did. I remember John Kenley from my childhood. I think he was a little scary. He was frightening. I write about him in my book. I guess you need to be sending me your Kenley Players chapter. Um the Kenley Players was summer stock in in Ohio. It was the only place you could see professional actors do anything.

He was scary looking, but he was the nit apparently the nicest man'cause I'm obsessed with John Kenley. In fact, Chad Lowe, my brother, was doing a documentary on John. And and then John wouldn't it would would not consent to be interviewed on camera and it died. But I'm obsessed with the John Kenley story.

Oh it's it's an amazing I mean he's a revolutionary. He gave so many actors their starts. He created the modern touring company. He created it. But he was kind. Re super kind. Loved actors, gave every but you know so

Is this true that you once once sang show tunes at Howl Prince's holiday party with Steven Soundheim playing the piano? I didn't myself, I was part of a throng. I was it was it was every single it was every single Christmas when you know, we were I grew up in New York mostly except for the few years we were in Malibu. I think it was in Malibu three years. Yeah.

Sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, yeah. And then I went back to New York and my whole childhood'cause my dad was directed by Hal Prince. In when I was six. Did how how how Prince direct the original production of Cabaret? He did. If you read the book you would have seen that he directed This is gonna be a long interview.

Honey, if I can't give you shit, who can? I know that's very true. And guess what? You know what? We all you're as you said, your life is not your own. You're very you're doing two series simultaneously. Yeah, it is true. And two podcasts. You know what? You're just you're you know what you're a miracle. That is miracle. I do feel like a miracle. I mean, it's a miracle that I'm even here. I so I did. My dad had been directed by Halprince.

um, in the original cabaret on Broadway. And that was when I would go and sit backstage when he would be applying his makeup as the M C and that was from age six to eight. and then we moved to, you know, Malibu and then he won the Oscar for the movie. And then we came back to New York. And so it was just my family's

uh community. My parents, my dad's community were the the princes and they would have this party that was the most epic party with every sh every Broadway legend that's that ever existed. And it was so everyone sta by the end of the night everyone was standing around the grand piano. singing show tunes. And it was plenty of times Larry Grossman was playing the piano and but it was like, you know, everybody. Oh, everybody. Everybody. Patty Lupone. Yeah. Bernadette Peters, Jerry Orbach.

uh Carol Channing. It was just, you know, that. It was like that. And um and you know it's it's pretty interesting to grow up around that kind of virtuosity. because it makes you feel like, oh This is a possible thing. These are real people that I know. It's not like some it doesn't feel that distant. And then at the same time you're like, I better be good. Yeah. I better be really good to be able to hang.

So it's like it's like a con an interesting pressure and also inspiration and also it felt like oh These are my people already. All I need to do is just be the best in the world. And then I couldn't really sing or dance well enough to do them. So I would go to like musical auditions with Tommy Toon and just make a fool of myself. Tommy Toon, huge Kenley players person. I think for example, John Kenley gave Tommy the first opportunity to direct, I'm pretty sure.

Really? God, I love I love I never thought of you as musical comedy. Oh. I mean I mean I was huge you know on the Oscar I think we were around for the Oscars. You saw me do the Oscars and went, Well, there is a guy who is not musical comedy. You know what? I didn't judge you, I just thought you were amazing and cute and brave and cool. So I don't I don't think of it that way. But that was the spirit I never knew th I didn't know that you came from Kenley players.

Stock that's really interesting. Well, I a I never I auditioned for j I never actually got a show. I auditioned a bunch and You knew all of this and you didn't get a show? You just aud that was what I did. I would audition for Evita. I auditioned for Best Little Whorehouse in Texas. I auditioned for Merrily We Roll Along. I auditioned for really I auditioned for really big people and I really had no business.

I don't believe that for a minute. Jennifer, wait a minute. You have to okay, look, here are the categories in musical theater. There are singers and then there are actors who can sing. Mm-hmm. Right? Well, I sang in one thing. I sang in Bloodhounds of Broadway with Madonna. I did a duet.

But that's a br that's not bad for one. That's a movie which is different. It's a movie, but I did record it and it was my voice and it it was me singing. But for some reason, singing on the you know, just the s the boards. I only did one play. Did you do plays on Broadway? Uh I did one play on Broadway and I did a really long running play on the West End. What did you do? Uh, on Broadway. I did I did um

Tony Randall. Do you remember Tony Randall? He started the National Actors' Theatre. Of course. Ton Tony Randall, he uh y you must come in. I did a uh Fed O. It was a French farce called uh Oh Fancy. A little hotel on the side with Lynn Redgrave, Paxson Whitehead. These are s these are legends. I am so impressed. And Tony. And um Yeah. And uh did so that was How old were you when you did that? That was my Broadway debut. Uh It's major twenty seven.

Hang on. You're already a movie star. Twenty Oh yeah, twenty seven. It was it was it was the same weekend Wayne's World opened. Wow. Um And then I did um A Few Good Men with Aaron Sorkin. Um you know, that's what we did for a long time and that was that was in the two thousands. But Wow, that was great, Rob. I never realized I didn't realize'cause you and I became friends

like another it wasn't for it was not for a w till till a while later. And I just I was so obsessed with you. I mean, I think we've worked together twice and I can't tell you anything about the movies we did except for the fact that It was some of the best laughs I've ever had in my entire life. Same. I mean seriously, I've never like I would do anything just to hang out with you because I know that you and I go there. We go there and we do not we do not play.

And I don't know. I just find you to be one of the most hilarious I mean like I I just all I think about you is just that you're the best raconteur and the greatest I don't know, we I don't know. It's just you're my favorite comedy.

Well, that's saying something. I I I mean I like Gene Wilder, you know. I like young Frankenstein and I like you. So that's pretty good. And and listen, you grew up around Like the great of the great, like Mike Nichols, the greatest rock rock contour. Okay. So you know what? He's the other one.

Come on. Please just say this. You're not you're not you can't touch him, okay? Fuck. I wanted you to say, let me just tell you, you are the young Mike Nichols when it comes to rock underground. That's all I need to know. Here's the thing, you can aim for it. You're not there yet. But you're real actually you know what? I take it back. The thing is, when he would do it, he would have his eyebrows going crazy and he would say, My favorite two words are it's cancelled.

The only words I like better than it's cancelled is it's cancelled and you're still getting paid. Like I can quote him all day long, which I can't do you because all I can do is imitations of you doing imitations of Michael Black doing imitations of Bet Betty Davis talking about. Natalie would forget.

Yes. That's all I can do is you I imitate you doing imitations of three other people. Because you brought it up and it's such an obscure reference, and this is definitely the point where people are like, What am I listening to? Michael Black was it was it was one of my first agents. And he represented me and Betty Davis towards the end. I'm talking very end. Very end. And they lived in the same apartment building. That beautiful, um, old, gorgeous building on Havenhurst and Sunset.

The colonial, yes. And Betty Davis would complain because she c she could smell the McDonald's French fries from the McDonald's that went up on the next thing and she would she would she would we need to I'm I haven't done a Betty Davis in forever. This is gonna be off. You do a warm up. The stench. The French fries. And also and what about the Joan Crawford? Just do that and then we'll be next time. What was the Joan Crawford one? Okay, so they had this horrible

uh combative, competitive thing. Joan Crawford, I believe. Of course they did. And when Joan to Baby Jane, the movie, whatever happened to Baby Jane. When Joan Crawford died. Oh, there was a there was a movie where there was a problem with the credit And Betty Davis and she there were like uh Joan Crawford got like uh she wanted a box around her name.

And when she died she said, She finally got her box Do you not remember that? And then she said um she said, They say you're supposed to say something good about the dead. She's dead. Good. Do you remember now? This is why I don't remember anything about the movies we did. This is all I remember. She finally got her box. Oh god the meanest, most amazing. Oh, wait, I'm I'm laughing so hard.

Uh we did yeah, we the movies and see that's the other thing is like y everybody goes into a project with all great intentions and you're lucky if you get anything out of it. And to have like the memories that we have. Do you remember when we did that Cinderella thing in Paris? And and wait, do you remember when I couldn't stop laughing?'Cause you m you you would try to make me laugh. Yes. And then I would go I would go off and then I couldn't stop.

And do you remember when I was looking at you and you had this one line and you would get to the line and you'd look at me with that twinkle in your eye and I'd be like, No, no, it's coming I could just feel myself and then I couldn't stop. Like they were so angry. They were so angry because what happened was I was new this is how I know how long ago it was. It was it's it will be 30 32. You ready for this?

Exactly. Two years ago. Because I was brand new. And w as was I. So we're both newly sober thirty two years ago and I was at a point where because I was n newly sober and so full of the pink cloud and had a new lease on life that I did not give one excuse me fuck about anything. And I was told you just have to be self supporting through your own contribution. So you take the job you're given. I'm like

I don't wanna do this job and they're like, Well they got Roblo and they're giving me a lot of money. It's like okay, okay So I just go'cause I'm told this is what I'm supposed to do. And that's what what I did. I was like, Great, I'm I'm gonna shoot in Paris. Mm-hmm. a mov a beautiful a a movie in Paris, you're doing it and we got paid a a fortune. It was not a good people love there are certain people who are obsessed with that movie. I thought no one would ever see it, of course.

And it was hanging around a lot. I thought it was just gonna be on French cable. Me too. Of course. It it was something that when my par when my friends were raising their kids. They're like, My daughter's upset We watched this di uh, I don't know, was it on Disney where was it? It was something. It would not go away. It's called If the Shoe Fits, the fact that I'm comfortable

That's terrible if you just said that so people can look at it. That's just a terrible thing to do. I'm I am either one of two things, either fantastic in it Or absolutely should never act again. I mean, I really think the two of us I don't know what we were doing but it was so painful because I felt like we were both

trying to make it good and I guess people loved it. I don't know if it's because we were good in it. I don't know what it is. But Do you remember when when we made the lobster dance at that dinner scene? Oh, not till you just said that. Were you doing the thing where you doing that? To make me laugh? And I'cause I didn't care. I was just like, Oh you really did not care. And I

was crying every day. I was like going to the American church, going to the meetings. And I was just like crying my eyes out and going, huh but I was like kind of thinking like, okay, well I guess that's why I got that job because he's sober. And we could be together in Paris and not drink. It was no, it was really I mean, I had a I had a sober companion. You did? What was his name? He was a guy. Joe.

Yeah, and you also had your wife and your baby you had your son. No, that's the second. That's the second movie. Oh, that was in that was in Canada. No first one was in Canada. Don't you remember the f Cheryl came to visit the day remember the She came to visit'cause we were walking down. I remember walking along the Seine and she was your makeup artist, right? Right. And I played a

clothing designer in it. Salvatore. Like a Valentino. Salvatore. Oh, and my ex Oh no. And I and I and I modeled my character after Bijan. Bij John. Bij John. We tell people who Bijon was just in case. Bijon, for people anybody from LA who's grown up in LA knows who Bijan is. Bijon had billboards in LA. He was yelling even on the billboard. He was literally like he was like Mantan, but he was al he was already dark. And always screaming. Nobody knew why he was famous or

Where my shit was so why he was screaming. And I modeled my character after Bijan. And And so there were models around, right? the set and there was one model paying an inordinate amount of attention to me and Cheryl literally flew in from the United States, walked in, I didn't see her arrive. The model was adjusting the zipper on my jacket.

Cheryl took one look at it and left for the airport to fly home and I was able to I remember this? I don't remember this drama. Was I privy to this? Excuse me. You might not have been privy to this. It was ugly Who was the model? Was she hot? She was the she plays the model in the movie. I don't remember. Oh, the one who Bijan character Salvatore was it was his muse or something. That's right. R oh it's all coming back. She was tall and

Okay, so I need to ask you about the cotton club because that was a f you you were in the cotton club. Francis Ford Coppola did the cotton club after Rumblefish. My first it was my first job. Yeah. So it went he did outsiders. With you. Cotton Club. And so we a lot of us had all met on outsiders, like Diane Lane and she was the star of it. Matt, I think was in it. And you were friends with Patrick Swayze from that?

Yeah, and they so we were all friends and I just remember the the And Tommy Howell. Tommy Howell, all of us, yeah. Right. And who did Red Dawn with you. Right. But I remember the Cotton Club as being such an unmitigated disaster and reading your book, which I did read that chapter It's okay. You're busy, busy man. Can't we do everything?

But your it's funny to hear from your perspective that that even somebody young and just starting out knew what a fiasco that movie was. No, but it wasn't that it was like we had people like We had people like Bob Hoskins and uh I mean just incredible legends. Which it was everybody. There was a giant cast of geniuses and they were all just kept in hair and makeup in like a holding

area for six months, eight months, like whatever it was, it was people were just like, what is going on? It was it was really um exciting initially and then it got to like, what is happening? Who what's happening here? And I had been, you know, just like a stand-in, basically, for Diane Lane until she came. And then Jennifer Jason Lee got the part opposite Nicholas Cage who was

um Francis's who is Francis's nephew who was eighteen. I think he had done Valley Girl. You guys sat in full makeup and hair every day waiting to see if they were gonna use you, not use you, you had no idea. Yeah, we were just like'cause he was I mean, you have to understand that Coppolo

was one of the most thrilling of a tour. I mean, he had done Godfathers and Apocalypse and like he was there was nobody who was as great a filmmaker and just he was just all I wanted was to be one of his people and to be in his movie was such an increment my first job.

And I was like, you know, p doing love scenes with Richard Gere while Diane Lane was finishing doing Streets of Fire and I would like you know, we would do like we're just going to improvise the whole script. We'll have the script. It's kind of like, you know a little bit like a a sketch and we're all going to just do this with the green screen. I'm gonna have a rough cut of the movie by the time we film.

And so then I can edit it and then know exactly what I'm doing. And so Diane was still on Streets of Fire, which had gone over, and so I had to play every woman's part. Like I'd play a hooker, they'd throw a bow around my neck and then and then I had to play Diane doing the scenes with Richard Gere, who was like the you know, just had done Officer and a gentleman. Was it Officer and a Gentleman? He just yeah, he just came off officer and gentleman. It was before

He'd do an American jiggler or something around like he was the hottest sex symbol of all time. And and there he was and there I was and it was just the incredible cast. And uh the most incredible jazz musicians and dancers and tap dancers. It was crazy. Gregory Hines and Honey Coles and and uh Larry Fishburg, everybody was in this movie.

And we were all just kind of waiting around like like I've always pictured it. It was like a dollhouse and we were just like set up waiting to like when he's gonna pick us up and put us in the Set, you know what I mean? It was very it was very wild and there was a lot of money, a lot of gangster money and there was a lot of s uh there I think there was m kidnapping or murder. I it was just

The behind the scenes what was happening was more dramatic than even the gangsters from the cotton club. It was really wild. Where they were getting their money from and it was just a runaway train. Yeah, there were there's so many characters involved behind the scenes and as as well. I just remember I would come to New York to visit and see people and Diane. We were all there at like Astoria Studios, just stuck there, right? And the movie is terrible.

I don't know, I heard there was a new cut that he what happened was I think he got pressured to make it more of the white couple story. Oh, interesting. Instead of Lanette McKee and Gregory Hines, it was supposed to be the black and white love story. Like the black story with Gregory and Lanette and Richard and Diane and it was this, you know, supposed to be

more even handed and I think the producers ultimately they when they cut they were like had seventeen films. So they had to like make one film out of this and I guess they decided to make it I'm not sure I'm speaking a little out of my ass, but I think he recut it last year or the year before. Wow and put it maybe at the New York Film Festival. And I've been wanting to watch it to see'cause there was such extraordinary

dance and acting from the black stories that should have been represented and I think he felt that he had done them a disservice. But I like I said, I'm not sure, but I think it's something that I would love to see one of these days when, you know, I have a moment'cause I think it would be really interesting to see with the distance what he wished he had been able to do if he'd had more agency, you know. And then how far after that for you is

Another movie I remember the making of like I made it. Like I was a part of it but it wasn't was Red Dawn. Well I was in the middle of doing Cotton Club when I got Red Dawn. Okay, makes sense. And then they let me leave and then come back and finish. 'Cause they were still doing it after I'd figure it out. Full length movie. I mean they said, Go away for two months, come back, we'll still be here, don't worry. So they let me go and I went off to do Red Dawn in New Mexico with Tommy Howell.

And Patrick Swayze and Leah Thompson. And Darren Dalton and Harry Dean Stanton and Powers Booth. Powers Booth played um Leah and My Dad, I believe. Great actors. Yeah. Did you ever audition for it? No, and I was kinda pissed. I was like I was like, whatever happened, how how all of a sudden I woke up one day and this movie was just being made.

Everybody and everyone you know would be I I literally Charlie Sheen and Charlie Sheen. Yeah. I had I had no one to go to the Hard Rock Cafe. I was like I was like, no one has gone to the Hard Rock Cafe with me tonight'cause they're all making this movie called Red Dawn. And we were all like with AK forty sevens in New Mexico. We were being like trained by actual like CIA hired assassins. We'd be taken out with like

Like they'd open up the back of a sedan and we'd have live ammunition and we would shoot live ammunition and targets for our target training. I mean they were it was very soldier of fortune. And if you know me at all and you know you at all. We are not naturally soldier of fortune types, are we? Oh I am now. Is that what happens when you become really successful? I don't know.

Well, you know, it's really fun was I mean, it turns out it was a really good shot, which is weird because I would be the least likely person to be that, but I think that I was Like I remember the the the guy who was doing the training with us telling me that I had an amaz I I was an amazing shot. So I have gone to those um shooting galleries and they're really fun. They're so fun now. But I'm but I'm very, very anti gun and violence and noise.

So it really is not a good like I don't like I don't like loud sounds. I'm just like I'm I'm a lover, not a fighter. What about so who's what's your love life like at this point? Oh tell me where we are now. We're we're at red dawn. Oh, I was dating somebody who was not in the business. I was dating a guy who was um a bart no, he was uh like a restaurant guy in New York. And um he visited me on Red Dawn and Yeah, I was going out with him.

But I was um I was just like, you know, I was around. How do you wait how did you keep your hands I was? Wait a minute. Wait, wait a minute. How did you keep your hands off all those young studs? I was not I was not into those studs at all. I did not find them to be studly. Well, first of all, I was older than they were and they bugged me.

They bugged you. They were pulling pranks. They were really young and they were like a bunch of boys all they were all just testosterone. It was like the real San Francisco tree. Just Oscaroni. They were so they were so testy and they were just all about partying and I was into like smoking joints in my room. You know what I mean? And then getting paranoid. Harry Dean Stamp would knock at my door and be like,

Uh, okay, you wanna smoke a joint looking now you have to leave. Get out Yeah, it was just it was a hard it was a hard shoot and You know, Patrick was super bossy. You know how he could get all like, you know, I'm the you know, and he said John said, you know, you're the older well, he was like thirty five or something and that was like like we were not we were playing high school students that were protecting

the um our Colorado's town from the Russians invasion. I mean it was really it was not that different from what's happening that's the thing. No. People are people you know there is a thing in in Ukraine where it's hashtag Wolfgang. I know. And that was what we we were that was our team from our our um Colorado Sports team, I guess. And then we had it was and I wish I still had that jacket, of course, from the show, which I don't have.'Cause I You could auction that for for Ukraine.

I know, I could do it for ha aid to Ukraine. And we would be like, Oh Marines No, they have it on Russian tanks. Yeah, it's really wild. It's so b it's so but now anyway, so they were they were pulling pranks. They were like putting like uh like firecrackers in my that would take off fire you know, like when like things that like would blow up. They would put it like in my door the door jam. Yeah. And then I would be trying to sleep and they would just sound like people were shooting at my door.

And I was trying to go to sleep to like to do my big love scene the next day where I'm I mean, they were just kids and I was I was like, you know I w I was never interested in teenagers my whole life. Like even when I was a teenager, so I was like, you know, I have that chapter. So they're all doing they're they're doing the same kind it's it's outsider hotel room pranks that we did on the outsiders. They're still doing I'm sure. I'm sure and and also they were like

They were just much younger than I was. I think they were like nineteen and I was like twenty Five, twenty four, twenty five, whatever I was. But I you know, it was just that and Patrick was Thirty, I don't know. It was just wild. And I was just like, get me out of here. And they were just very immature and very just you know, they were still playing I don't know, it's just Yeah, for all believe me. I I It's very boise, very boisey and I just was never into that boy thing. Like I like

Men. And I and I'm boy crazy, but I don't like like that kind of like that gang mentality thing. Okay. So so then y I I'm always sort of fascinated because you had amazing taste. Well, I don't know if amazing is right. You you won't agree with that. Um I have a prescient sense of talent. Is that what you're saying? Yes, in your in your in in your love life. You I mean I didn't realize I I I have an eye for talent unlike almost anybody. You do?

Mm-hmm. I mean Michael J. Fox I didn't realize was on that list. He was not m ever a romantic person for me. Never? He w never, never, never. No, no, no. Okay. He was my friend always. I've only been friends with him and I've been friends with him my entire I mean s he's he's married to my best friend from high school. Tracy, yeah, sure. Yeah. He was never my boyfriend. I think we were in like pictures together and people thought like we were at Pretty in Pink premiere. Never.

have ever had a m s a romantic moment with him. Mat obviously Br Matthew Broderick, by the way, your book is is amazing about Matthew Broderick. Has do we has you read it yet? Is there been any reaction from Matthew? Oh honestly, I have no idea. I mean It was if I could have written the book on it, this is I'm telling you the d the God's honest truth. If I could have written this book with everybody's name changed? I would have.

And it probably wouldn't have sold a as well or wouldn't sell as well. But honestly, for me, it was just telling the most important stories that changed my life for better or for worse. And for both sometimes both. And unfortunately if you don't save who you're working with, it just they just people start Googling it and then it becomes distracting and almost like coy or playful. And I just it to me it's just the we just loved each other. And w I I mean I don't know, I loved him a lot.

And I just I look at my the choices that I made and I look at, you know, from where I sit now just what I was what I was I wanted, what I wanted and what I didn't wanna see, I didn't wanna see and my tolerance for certain things was just all on me now that I look at it. You know, and and very intense stuff happened while we were together. And that's the only reason he's in the book is because he was part of the

story of the important moments. There's absolutely nothing in there that um is gratuitous in any way. As far as I'm concerned, it's just I listen, having done uh b been been there, having writ written about my own life and it's intense, right? It's super intense and and I came down on the side of

Everybody's entitled to the well, as the kids say now, their own truth. Well, everyone has their story, right? Yes. And there is no empirical truth. There is only your own experience. That's right. And if you're I I just feel from where I sit now, I just feel like I'm almost looking at all of us just trying so hard to live our best lives and trying so hard to love and to survive and to figure stuff out and you just realize how dumb you are when you're young.

And how like how how unconscious choices like can be so scarring and traumatizing. But you couldn't have done better and none no one in the story could have done better because everyone's doing the best they can. Always. One hundred percent. It that's very clear in your book. I mean, you threaded that needle exactly right. There's nothing gratuitous in in in your book at all. And but it also is like doesn't shy away from

the stuff that people are going to if you're gonna write a book about your life, there are certain things that you gotta be forthcoming about or don't write the book. I mean I've been there. I know what that is. It's it's really it's it was for me because I grew up with such

I grew up with such an intense people pleasing uh fear of hurting or offending or disappointing anyone that to me it's still anathema to me to to to put my truth out and to say my and to own my story and yet at the same time I can't not do it. because it's I think it's important. You have to name it to tame it. And the idea is this is what happened.

This is what happened and this is my story. And I think mostly about my daughter and I think about other young women or other young people growing up that there might be they might pick up the book because It's got some juicy bits and some fun bits or people that they've heard of or that they're are curious about. But the truth is it's really about a coming-of-age story of every age.

And that each layer and still today, the coming of age story for me today is how can I tolerate being myself and owning my story? and tolerate the the inevitability of people being unhappy with me or dis disappointed or critical or whatever and knowing that I can survive that is to me I think you've been there for much longer than I have.

That's just what I project on you. I don't know if it's true, but I feel like you really, really give yourself a voice and always have. And I don't think that you're as frightened of uh incurring the wrath of anybody. Is that true?

For sure at this point in my life. For sure. How did you get there? That's what I want you to teach me today. Like teach me your ways and say I'm not kidding. I'm really being real with you. I'm like saying it's really intense. to be my age and still think, please let me before I die learn how to just stand in my truth.

Well, I mean, you're you're so advanced in your recovery that I think you're probably closer to it than you think because you don't get you don't stay sober as long as you've stayed sober or that I've stayed sober without that getting somewhat baked into your DNA. So I I know, but to do it in a in a like with yourself is one thing, but to do it on a public like how do you I just feel like you do not give a shit. I don't.

And I wanna just I wanna I wanna get to that I do not give a shit place. I just wanna like major in that right now. I wanna care less, even though intellectually I know that what other people think of me is none of my business, but it still makes my hiny go in, you know? But here's the thing, is like as I hear myself saying it going ago I relate to that. And I want to make clear

to to folks listening who don't have to endure the kind of microscope that that people in our business is. Not that they don't care about fans or or how people feel about my work or do they like the show or do they hate it. I mean listen, we just talked about a movie we did together that is arguably 50% of the people who see it.

will acknowledge it for what it is, which is awful, literally unwatchable. And then there might be 50% of people who go, I kind of liked it. But like I don't own any of it. I know, but that is different'cause the truth is is like, you know, people can have an opinion about your work or a project. So you're talking about your actual person. I'm talking about writing a book and being a person who is believes that I mean it I think it happens with age where you just go

I I must. I think it's a sign of being really free and really adult. Well my question to you would be is how how much more do you how how much more do you have to work to feel like you've earned it?

It's per it's more it's personal. It feel it feel like you know, like my I remember I had a sponsor my my first sponsor said to me there was somebody I broke up with somebody and I was really broken up about it. Nobody that was in the book, no one you need to know about. That's not important. She said I said, I'm just so down and she said, Why don't you write a fourth step about it? And I said

But I don't resent anything. He he he didn't do anything, you know, that's like we didn't it wasn't like that. And she said, What what would you resent if you had any self esteem? And I went, Well oh that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Well but that that in a way is what I'm asking is like how much more it's like how much how much how much more shit do you have to eat before you go? You know, I don't love sh that Yeah. And that's really what it is is like

you know, you I've like I said, I've read I've read your book. It is you have a lot of famous people in it because that's your life. I mean, you grew up singing with Steven Sondheim.

When you were a kid. It is what it is. You couldn't write your truth without those people being a part of it. It it's just the way my life unfolded. And it's it's not uh by design. But the thing is is that You know how we have this credo of just, you know, not wanting to cause anybody you know, just not wanting to hurt anybody. At the end of the day, my people pleasing was really the reason I drank.

Like if I had to pay I mean if I it was like there's all kinds of things. It's not famous, it's that. It's like people wanted things from me. I was uncomfortable with confrontation. I I would I would put off any pain any way I could. Avoidant. Avoid avoidant and and I still battle that stuff. But so when I got sober uh uh I was like, uh I'm not people pleasing anymore. That that the the o I gave it the office. Thirty two years you've been free of people pleasing?

I just wanna go to your Tony Robbins freaking event and teach me your ways.'Cause like it's really hard to give it up and I don't understand how you just did it. Well then the question is what are you getting out of it then? You're getting something out of it. I don't know how you did it. You just cut the cord.

Well, it wasn't like it happened overnight, but but once the light bulb went off of awareness, like you said, name you have to name it. Mm-hmm. You've you've more than named it. You You can't unsee what you've seen. You've studied it, but but like for me, when I had that kind of awareness that you clearly have, it was on its way out the door. Yeah.

Because it was clearly killing me. Literally killing me. Yeah. I mean the thing is if if you realize that If if your intention is always to tell your truth, knowing that everyone has a right to their own, which they do, you know, I mean it's just the way it is, and that everyone has a right to tell their story. That's right. Listen, I had a book writ I've had books that I've been uh written that I was a big part of the book. There's a version of me that could be upset about it. Mm-hmm.

And it but but my thing is I like to be consistent if I can. I'm a human so I'm not always, but in my worldview, and it's like what's good for the goose is good for the gander. That's this person's truth. They get to write about it and in any way they want. And in my one man show, there's a bit that I do about Tom Cruise. And I love Tom. I love I love I think he's the greatest. And I love his movies. And I keep thinking, I wonder if Tom would be upset if he knew about this.

Joke, but it's a real thing that happened just briefly is please do tell. We do outsiders together. We're brothers. And and and anybody who I did outsiders with No matter what, when we see each other, we're right back there like if you were in a sorority or fraternity in college. But a little like you and me with our the way we do our business, right? We just we fall we just go into a groove. We go into a groove and like

The nothing it's like it's been five minutes since we've seen each other, even though it might be five years. So I have that with all the guys, including Tom. So he was doing risky business in Chicago. I arrived in Chicago to do a movie called Class. We hadn't seen each other. I go to the set to see him, drive all the way out there. I remember it being a nightmare getting to the set and and and that's probably why I was so erk.

at what happened. So he it's the scene where he's jumping on the Porsche. Mm-hmm. Trying to keep his Porsche from going to Lake Michigan. Iconic. Great movie. And we finish and he it's it's a rap. I come up to him, give him a hug. S he's he's weirdly uncomfortable. I'm like, Okay, that's weird. I'm like, So where are we gonna go out? Because this we should be going out. It's Chicago, we should be doing anything and he says, You know, um

Listen, um, I don't know how to say it. I can't hang out with you. I go, what? Because I know you, but my character doesn't know you. No, no, no, he didn't. And we didn't go he did not say that. He did. Now, listen, he said that to me. I didn't make this up. No, you couldn't make that up. I didn't make it up. You couldn't it it it happened to me. It's an amazing story. Mm-hmm. And by the way, if that's what it takes for Tom to do his work, so fucking be it.

Exactly right. But it's like I'm not gonna not tell that story. I'm not. But did you ever tell him about that story that you tell? No, but I would. I absolutely would. Yeah, but you're not gonna chase him down and go, by the way I'd like to tell you something that might make you feel weird. Do you remember when I came to visit your Scooby We would laugh about it.'Cause he's got a he'cause the great thing is that that isn't who he is. That's not who he is. I think

That was a moment where everybody, every young actor, and I really mean this not as a disclaimer to inoculate. It was a thing. It was it was a thing. Everybody was It's like the time Nick Cage wouldn't answer to anything but his character's name. I mean during Cotton Club. It was with everybody Patrick during Cotton during Red Dawn, he would only respond to that character. Like it was just like Yeah, it's w it was so funny to me.

Everyone I wasn't doing it. Were you doing it? No, never did it. Yeah, I but you and I were the anomalies, I think. Probably why I'm not as good actors. These guys. But I remember um remember the in the world of answering machines, being over to Emilio's one time and the answering machine went off and there was a voice going Ha, I want to talk to Amelio I hope he's is Amelia. I was like, that sounds a lot like Sean Penn to me.

And I picked it up and I go, Sean? He goes, ho, hoo. No, I'm looking for it. And I realized, no, this is absolutely Sean Penn doing a voice. What it? And it was Sean doing his voice from the Louis Mao movie Crackers? Oh. Or he played like a he played like a Cajun. And I was like I was like, Bro, it's it's Rob. You don't need to do the voice. It's it's it's me. Yeah, Emilio's not here, but he's like, Oh, I will just tell him that the Cajun and I was like, Oh God.

And I just never d I just like James Carville Like everybody did this. Everybody everybody It was a thing. But I don't think girls did it as much. I think a lot of the guys did it. I don't know too many like I know that Merrill supposedly when she shows up at a reading for like you know, devil or his pride or whatever. She comes in character. Okay, guess what? I I would be embarrassed. Jodie Foster has two Oscars. Never does that. Not only would she never do it

She would not be caught dead doing it. Yeah. She'd be mortified. I I showed her I showed her an um I said I had this I have to put myself on tape for this audition recently and I and I told her about it and she was like, Oh, I wouldn't do that. It's like I can't I don't know how to do this, I don't know how to I wouldn't like she was embar like she was embarrassed for me that I would have to put myself on tape for like

She's just so grounded. She's the best And look, I worked with Jody when I was super young and she was already wildly accomplished. What did you guys do together? We did a movie called Hotel New Hampshire together. Oh, with Lisa Baines. With Lisa Baines, God rest her. Um that was so horrible. She's a great actor. Yes, I remember when she and you and Natas Natas Natas Nas Nastas. Yes.

But I think the reason that at the end of the day that the movie didn't work was at at that time Nastasia was literally on the cover of Time magazine and the headline was most beautiful woman in the world. Oh, with the snake, the nude picture with the snake? Was that her? That was her, but that was her, but that was not the f the Time magazine photo. But in the movie she she wears a bear suit.

Oh right from the right. She literally wears a bear suit. Why would you put the most beautiful woman in the world in a bear suit? Does she ever like disrobe out of the bear suit? She takes her head off once. No, stop it. And I'm not making this up. You couldn't. It's too good. I forgot she was the bear. I forgot about the bear. She wears a bear suit.

Oh wait, you just sounded like Betty David. What was she doing in the bear suit? Well well that's Well, because it's another story. It's the Christopher Walken story. Christopher Walken goes to host Saturday Ant Live. They sit there in the in the host meeting and and all the writers pitch. All the writers go, I'm thinking of this, I'm thinking of that. And then as a only as a um

a a polite thing to do, do they ask the host if they have any ideas? Right. They don't ever intention of doing anything the host says, ever. And they famously ask Chris Walk and he goes, Oh. Bath suits are funny. Oh, and and ape suits as well. That's a very funny Saturday Night Live legendary bear suits. So You've said that a lot. Wait, tell me, did is there am I m am I making this up or do you tell a great story about going to M and Mike, Mike Nichols and Diane um Sawyer's house?

And you're there with Matthew Broderick. Oh, okay. Go ahead. And s someone shows up unexpectedly? What wait, wait, I forgot about this story. Oh I forgot about the story. Remind me of my life? So here's here's your life. You and Matthew Broderick. We were good friends with Mike and Diane. We would go up to the country in Connecticut. Out of the country. And you're lying by the pool and you hear a car come up the driveway. She

And Mike looks at Diane and Diane looks at Mike, Are you expecting anybody? No. What's going on? And that you look out and the and out of the car comes Matthew Modine with a suitcase. And Wait, tell me more. I'm literally feeling like I know what you're saying is true, but I don't know what happens. What happens? So apparently, and and and Mike's like, Hello? And Matthew's like, sorry I'm late. Matthew Modine. Matthew Modine. And what had happened was, apparently

Then you're the one telling the story. You told the story to me. I well that you know how long ago I told the story to you? Probably in nineteen ninety. Yes. So don't don't you know, don't be like that. Just tell me what the goddamn what happened. Because now I'm on Tentar hooks. Okay, so what uh Tenter hooks? I have hooks for hands. So um what had happened was Come on, you've missed me. You know you're bad. Okay, go ahead. Um

Apparently, Matthew Lodine had been on the phone with Mike Nichols about something. And Mike. said why don't you come out for the weekend thinking it was Matthew Broderick. Broadrick So Matthew Modine, who doesn't really even know Mike Nichols, is like, wow, uh, sure. And so hence One of the most awkward weekends ever.

Okay, it's so weird. I feel really dim like I have dementia or something because I know what you're saying is true and yet It was I mean literally I always thought you were gonna tell me this story like when we I was in Martha's vineyard with him when I had my baby and it was years later and I remember him putting his arm around Diane, looking at the vista and saying, Some day this will all not be ours

That's very funny. Oh damn it. That was a good story. And he stayed for how long? And it was so awkward because he invited Matthew Modine thinking it was Broderick. Oh my good. And and and Modine stayed. As I told the story. As you tell the story as I remember it from nineteen ninety. Shit. Um he was not alone. Oh shit.'Ca yeah,'cause he was married since he was super young. Oh that's so

Okay, that's really crazy. And just to bring it full circle, he broke my nose in Hotel New Hampshire. Oh he was in Hotel New Hampshire? Yes, and he broke my nose. How did he break your nose? He kicked me in the face with a steel toed boot. Accidentally? Accidentally. One hundred percent was not his fault. And oh wait, and is that why you're so handsome?

That's wild. And and Tony Richardson was so angry at him for doing it and I kept saying it's not his fault, it's not his fault. It was a stunt gone wrong that Tony looped his performance with another actor's performance in the movie. That's nuts. I know. We've gone so there are more stories have come out of this podcast than I've got. I can't believe you're reminding me of stories that

I are for sure true that I could not for the life of me had written it like I couldn't have told you what happened. I was so that's the beauty about getting older is that everything is new again. I order stuff on Amazon and like ding dong I'm like I wonder what it is. I just ordered it last night but it's you know, it's every day it's like Christmas. Every day is like Christmas when I'm with you. It really is true. Um, this is great. I love you. This is so fun. I love you.

We just did one of the longest podcasts I've done because she makes me laugh and I could talk to her forever. And we didn't even I don't think uh the phrase dirty dancing ever came out of my mouth. And that's what I like about honestly, that's what I like about doing this podcast because

It's like, how can you talk to Jennifer Gray without talking about dirty dancing? This is how. You can go somewhere else to get that stuff. Anyway, I had a I had a blast. I hope you did too. It was super, super fun. All right, just one more thing before we end today's episode. Let's check the lowdown line.

Hello, you've reached literally in our lowdown line, where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Low. Three two three five seven oh four five five one. So have at it. Here's the beep. Hey Rob. Matt from Detroit. Just wondering if thinking back to movies made before you were born. What do you think would be the one movie and one part you would have loved to have been in?

before your birth that you didn't have a chance to. Thanks. Thanks, Matt. Thanks for calling. Well it it would immediately popped to my mind and it's it wasn't before I was born technically'cause I believe the movie came out in nineteen sixty nine. Would be butchcasting the Sundance Kit. Um it I I I look, there are other great movies, obviously. that I I would've that would have been good. But I would have I would love to play Butch Cassidy.

I mean I would love to do a modern day Butch Cassidy. I'd love to go back in time and be Butch. In the what is it? What in the metaverse? Not the metaverse. What are they calling it? The uh the in the in the multiverse three point out, whatever it is.

hopefully they can use my avatar and put me in Butch Cassidy someday and you can see what that would be like. But the other part of it is I would have loved to have been around in the era Of the traditional romantic leading man screwball comedies, like His Girl Friday, Bringing Up Baby, Front Page, the sort of Howard Hawkes fast talking. Um um movies. I I I would have loved those. And I think those would have been in my wheelhouse. Um and those are great ones. Philadelphia Story.

Um, Kerry Grant, Jimmy Stewart. Um, if you haven't seen those movies that you should. They're great. Um and definitely we're not making anything remotely like those anymore. R really great question. I could go on and on with this one. Um but uh thanks for calling and keep listening. Don't forget to tune in next week to literally and subscribe. And uh five star review on Apple is very, very helpful. Also, parks and recollection.

My other podcast, which is the deep dive on everything related to Parks and Rec. We could use your support. And um I will see you next time. You've been listening to literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Rob Schulte, with help from associate producer Sarah Bagar. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Burm. Our research is done by Alyssa Gral. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for the Jeff Ross and Joan. and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. You hear is by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening.

Next week on literally. Rob low.