The War of 1812 Part 3 Hello and welcome to another episode of Lions Led By Donkeys Podcast. I am your host Joe and with me today is Sergeant Richardson. Hi. It hasn't come out quite yet or maybe it will be out by the time this episode is out. I'm not really sure the timelines right now but she actually joined us for our first Patreon bonus episode about the Battle of Hogwarts. So donate a dollar and you can listen
to more of her. So this is part 3 of the War of 1812. So I have recommend not jumping right into it. Go listen to the other two parts. If you want to live dangerously you do you, I'm not here to stop you. So we left off on part 2, our Admiral Cockburn burnt down Washington. More specifically he burnt down the White House and several other government buildings. He also disassembled a newspaper building by hand because he didn't want
to burn it down. So this is in the middle of that because we ran out of time and I didn't feel like forcing anybody to listen to a two hour long podcast of my voice. I feel like that's something that they might put together in Guantanamo Bay. So since I have a new host with me here today, what do you know about the War of 1812? Absolutely nothing. I'm just here for the learning. My most reliable stand-in for Nick because he was on vacation and is apparently not able
to use a calendar. I actually am taking a history class right now that is from 1650 to current times and I'm pretty sure we covered the War of 1812 and just none of it stuck with me. I'm much better used as an expert in Hogwarts history than regular American history. Yeah, we'll keep you on the roles for our History of Magical Warfare series. So we're going to start right where we left off. And less than a day after the attack began on
DC, a sudden, very heavy thunderstorm. Some people think it may have possibly been a hurricane put out all the fires. And also spun off a tornado that passed through the center of the capital and set down right in the middle of Constitution Avenue. It lifted up two canons and then dropped them several yards away and killed several British troops and American citizens alike. Following the storm, the British troops returned to their ships, many of
which were badly damaged by the storm. There's some debate regarding the effect of the storm on the occupation. While some assert that the storm forced their retreat, it seems likely from their destructive and arsonist actions before the storm. And the written order is from Cochran to destroy and lay waste that their intention was merely to raise the city and not to occupy it for an extended period of time. This might be part of a mythos that
surrounds this. Now it's called the storm that saved Washington when the Mongols tried to invade Japan. They were chased off by a storm that became known as the Kamikaze. So we're trying to create some mythos around this when the British probably weren't going to occupy DC. They had no intention to do that. Otherwise, they wouldn't burn it to
the ground around their ears. That's just bad policy. So the rain sizzled and cracked and nearly charred the walls of the White House and ripped away at the structures that British had no plans to destroy, such as the pet office. The storm may have actually exacerbated the already dire situation for Washington DC. So the storm that saved DC also created like a fuckload of water damage. Well, I mean, that's pretty much what soldiers do
too. You go into save something or to fix something, but you just really create a way bigger hole than you started with. Yeah. I mean, at least the British use the soldiers into the one thing that they're good at and I just wreck and shit. So that's right. If you remember on their last episode, we talked about the siege of Erie, where the American regular army actually forced back a force of British regulars fresh off Napoleonic Wars,
true veterans, not a whole bunch of Canadian fur trappers. And by the time that the siege had ended and the Americans triumphantly emerged from their fort, they found out that their capital got burned down to the ground behind them. Talk about a let down. Is Canadian fur trapper like a racial slur against Canadians? Is that it's not there. Army was literally full of Canadian fur trappers. Should really go back and listen to those
episodes. Well, it was it was an irregular militia with some British regulars, regular officers kind of commanding it. This is a time where the entire population of Canada was less than half a million. And they used Native American, they call them First Nations in Canada, Indian troops. It was not a good army, but it was enough to kick our ass. But you know, by the time the Americans have their first real victory against true British
veterans, their capels bring down behind them. So it's like we talk about it a lot and it kind of became our slogan because I think I use this term for Douglas Hague. If he was an ice cream flavor, he'd be pre-Lines and Dick. Pre-Lines and Dick, the defenders of 40. So after raising Washington, the British moved on to their next target, Baltimore. And for some reason, unlike Washington, the nation's
capital, Baltimore is heavily fortified and defended. Washington, D.C. at this time, was not fortified at all and was hardly defended by a group of militia who were awful at their jobs. I understand that Baltimore is a port city and is worth a lot of money for trade. But like strategically, you don't want your capital to burn to the ground. So with the majority of their defenses, we're centered around Fort McHenry, which is very
fortified and full of thousands of American regular soldiers. The Americans launched a successful delaying action at the Battle of Port New Point on September 12, which gave the Americans inside the fort time to actually prepare for the attack. And the American militia who actually did a good job at delaying the British force actually killed Major General Robert Ross, who commanded the Battle of Blendsburg and captured D.C. and then burnt it to the
ground. So I guess the militia were good for something. And Robert Ross actually has a really interesting history. I don't super going to here, but it was like the second his four stepped off the boat he got shot in the face. So yeah. It's not a great history then. Well, you know, the guy survived years of fighting Napoleon and Europe, like fighting actual superpowers. I imagine that would be like surviving fighting in World War II and then like getting shot by the Taliban and
Afghanistan. If you met, yeah, like bad fucking luck. I mean, there's a lot of years between that. If it was like a Captain America situation where we got pumped full of super serum and never aged, this should be a movie. I think it's just called Captain America. So after a few probing actions that British found the American offensive is to actually much better prepared than they could have possibly imagined. And you know, after the beginning of this
war, the Brits didn't think a lot about the American army. I mean, at one point in a battle in Canada, 8,000 American soldiers got routed by 300 British or British and Canadian militiamen effectively. So they're not thought of very highly. So they're like, oh, holy shit. Look, they built earthworks. It's like when we are in Afghanistan and whenever like the Afghan soldiers showed up to work actually wearing boots. Yeah. Wow. Good job,
guys. Yeah. Impressive. We didn't know you could do that. Or any average soldier does any of their average daily work. Right. Thanks for showing up on time. You did well today. Good job, buddy. Except in this situation, there was 10,000 soldiers and hundreds of cannons were lined up to face them. And they were secured behind three miles of earthworks, which is kind of like an old, tiny trench, but also kind of like just giant berms, which were
enough to stop muskipals and cannons of the day. That British decided a frontal assault wouldn't work. Surprise. And instead retired back to their ships and they decided to siege the Americans and a surrender using their cannons. So on the 13th of September, 19 British ships began pounding the fort with congrived rockets and mortars. Now these congrived rockets, they're obviously though the rockets that are talked about the national anthem.
But they're not very good weapons. They like, it's hard to make a modern day explanation of this, but they didn't have a lot of explosive punch. But they would scream when they flew through the air. So it was kind of like meant to mentally fuck with soldiers. I mean, if one act, if you have the really bad luck to have a congrived rocket fall on you and die, you were one of the few. But they were meant to be loud. I mean, they would wound
and they would kill, but they were meant to be loud, demoralizing weapons. But they would sit shit on fire too. I mean, and they weren't very accurate because this is 18th century rocket technology. They're just lucky if you go in the right direction. Would they be similar to like the mortars that come in on post and just land and don't do anything kind of in a stand and stuff like that? I honestly think those mortars killed
significantly more people. But I do know, it's kind of the same effect. These Americans who if they've been fighting the British at this point, because war has been going on for a couple of years at this point, they kind of got indelated with the sound of the screaming rockets and the effect of it anymore. And then you, you know, but then the
new regular is the new draft. These come in and they start hearing the screaming they're going to be terrified kind of like when you're getting ready to leave deployment and they mortar you and you just got set for a cigarette when you swatch the new soldiers like sprint like their under machine gunfire to the bunkers.
Yeah, I feel like that is something that is that can be brought to current and really similar where you have everybody running into the cement bunkers and the older people that have been on a can to heart base or wherever for a year already just kind of stand there and watch them come in. Yeah. And that's another facet of this kind of warfare is like line formations. You're going to stand dozens of meters away from the guy who's trying
to kill you and standing in the open, you're going to shoot at them. The major point when it comes to like training soldiers or more militia for that matter and this kind of warfare is I know in the old Prussian way, which is how the revolutionary army is trained by Baron von Stoyben, but not necessarily so much with these guys because this army is not necessarily as good, but it was to effectively control your soldiers through fear and violence
to get them to stay in line and get shot at. So it worked. It worked for hundreds of years. I mean, things that work aren't necessarily good all the time though. So in the next 27 hours, the 19 British ships would fire between 1500 and 1800 shells and rockets at the fort. And this action actually inspired a poem by an American named Francis Scott Key, who was on board the Royal Navy ship negotiating a prisoner exchange at a time.
That name sounds familiar. Yeah. And there's actually, you know, his poem was actually titled the defensive fort McKenry, which of course would go on to become the star spangled banner and the United States natural anthem. Now if you had a guess, I, because I didn't actually know this, I don't look this up. When did this song or poem or whatever become our national anthem? You probably think of like immediately after this war, right?
I definitely thought way before this war, like back when we actually became a country. Yeah. Well, it was actually not until 1931. Wow. That is post-World War War. Like somewhat recent. Yeah. And there's, I mean, as far as like world history goes. Yeah. And there's actually a little bit of mythos behind this battle as well. The flag. So the flag, you know, he said the flag is still there. Well, the flag was shredded to pieces. And the
poem was commenting that they never took the flag down. And there's also after the British decided that this isn't working. And they pulled back, they pulled the flag down and replaced it. And there's a mythos that the flag that they put up was huge to laugh at the British. And it's not actually true. Well, the flag was large. It was just the only one they played around that wasn't full of fucking trap and holes. But I like it better when they're
like flying up a giant middle finger to the fleet who can beat them. And as I just kind of ruined the bar environment, hardly damaged the fort at all and killed only 30 of the Americans inside. I'm sure at least one of the soldiers that was raising the new flags was in their mind or out loud thinking, this is one big middle finger to the British. Yeah. Yeah.
Because I've actually done that myself when we went out somewhere and is actually chronicled in my book, the who we can say, Ghanar, I'm pretty sure all of you are sick of me here. You talk about it. Yeah. We were told not to put a flag up at an outpost because it would let the Taliban know that we were there. That's what we wanted. So we put the flag up and the Taliban suicide bomb us. So whoops. Weird. The higher ups knew what they were talking about
with that one. It was the one time in the year they were right. I'll say that. So only about 30 of the 10,000 American soldiers inside were killed. Another small footnote here, one of the American soldiers who survived the shelling was a young private name James Buchanan who'd go on to become president in 1857 and would be just an awful president and had a very troubled time in office to say the least. He is known. Not many people who don't study the Civil War know a whole
lot about James Buchanan, but he is pretty much the reason we had a Civil War. So maybe the British should have killed him instead. Anyway, the British acting that are strict orders not to assault the fort unless they thought they were less than 2000 men inside with through and pulled their fleet back towards New Orleans. Now we're going to take a little break here from the land war because I know I haven't got a lot of hate on this part. I got mostly hate on shit that I went off script
on and was talking to Nick with. So we're getting away from land. We're going to talk about the the naval war, but also I will recognize some of the things I was wrong about. One, Lay Mizraub did not take place during the French Revolution. Thank you, Nick. That took place during a different French Revolution against the early on throne several decades later. So, are bad. I am one non-expert in French Revolution and even less of an expert in musicals.
Hey, there are a lot of wars going on all around this time period. And especially French revolutions. There's a lot of them. And if you haven't and you ever want to study something that is incredibly confusing and you'll never get to the end of study, the French revolutions, it's great. Yeah. So we're going to talk about the naval war. The Royal Navy was easily the strongest navy in the world at this point and they did not wipe the floor at the American
Navy as one would think. You don't hear a whole lot about the naval war. You hear little incidents of like this is how the USS Constitution became known as Old Iron Sides and actually how an army unit got their fucking nickname that I was in at first armored. And that as many streets and gyms on forthood. Yeah. And nox actually. Yeah. But you'd think that the Royal Navy who had defeated the Napoleonic Navy and kept all of Europe and Czech would just steamroll over the American Navy.
And that was not true. The majority of the Royal Navy, like its army, was far away blockading France, leaving only their North American squadron to prosecute the war. That one squadron was equal to the entirety of the American Navy at the time. But those ships were a little different. The British squadron numbered one small ship of the line, seven frigates, nine smaller slupes and brigs and five schooners. What is a slupe and what is a schooner? It's different sizes
of ship. They're back then they had names generally it amounts to how many cannons they have, how big their displacement is in the water, how many men they can hold. But they're all really debatable. A frigate to the Royal Navy is a smaller ship than the United States Navy, to the point that the British Navy called them super frigates. Because in America,
just had a huge frigate building controversy for funding. Because this is early 1800s, the mentality of the revolution is still in everybody's mind where we need to keep the government very small. We can't have this huge standing army in navy because they'll be used to oppress us. The individual states don't want to be involved. So building this huge navy was pretty controversial at the time. Kind of players when you think about it now. But the American Navy built these huge
frigates. One of them was the now legendary United States USS Constitution, who earned, like I said, earned a nickname, the iron sides because British sailors watched in the horror as their shots just bounced harmly off its hole. I don't know a ton about naval history, but it has something to do with how the struts were built. The kind of wood it was built out of. We just built their ships differently because we didn't have anybody helping us. Our old allies, the ancient Reseymid French,
is now ball-steep in the revolution. And now it's Napoleonic France who aren't nearly as big of allies to us. So we kind of just figured out how to build ships ourselves. And so they all end up completely different. The American Navy actually did not end up being the main threat to the Royal Navy though. Instead, it was American privateers. Otherwise, it was pretty much thinks state sanctioned pirates. The privateers managed to take 1,300 British flag ships, both
military and trade ships, compared to only 200 that the American Navy took. We went into a little bit for it, but being a privateer was a much better life than being a sailor in a Navy. That pay was better. The recreation was better. I don't know exactly what the recreation they had to do, less awful chores on board. You could just quit. Instead of being press-gangred into a different Navy, it was just all around a better life. The Brits were forced to travel in giant convoyes
for protection to kind of like scare off these privateers. So the privateers didn't want to fight anybody. They wanted to board your ship, steal your ship, take your ship, and get rid of you. Put you on like a little lifeboat, kick you off. They didn't want to fight anybody. They wanted what you were carrying. So did they kill people? I mean, they did. They certainly weren't
saints. These are a few generations removed from like incredibly dangerous pirates, but they wanted what you were carrying because at the time the Royal Navy actually had such a complete blockade for the most part on America that the economy had completely collapsed. We couldn't export anything. So what better self-medance stealing the Brits' ship? And not to mention that funds are military at the time, which were pretty much just slapping together as we
go. At this point, the military or at least the Army had been established for well over 60 years, though. Well, it goes back to the thinking that we don't need a strong central government in regular army. We have state militias. It goes back to one of the reasons that the revolution happened. And that was a huge standing British army being cordoned in people's houses. You couldn't say no to. That's why you have that really weird claws and the constitution. Soldiers will not
be cordoned in people's homes without... I'm going to sound really fucking stupid because I had just pull them inside of my ass and I did not research this part, but you know, it's like you have to pay someone and they have to give you permission. No, yeah. That actually is something that I retained from my history class. That in the revolution, there were pretty much using and abusing
everybody. And so, and that's why they made the law that you could not... You could not force somebody to quarter soldiers in your home and stuff like that because soldiers were just pretty much taking everything they could. Yeah, soldiers are soldiers throughout time. And actually, Nick had a little anecdote about that. The US government completely violated that in the certain part of LA during World War II. There's a huge air base there, some kind.
And they knew place to put them and they didn't have housing. Don't military bases look much different than they do now. And there's like, yeah, we're going to take these houses. And people like, but these are houses, like, yeah, we're going to take these houses. Yeah, sorry, bro. So, due to massive... This is the massive size of the British merchant fleet, though. Like, even though the privateers took all these ships and all this cargo,
they actually only effect about 7% of the total British fleet. That's just how big the Royal Navy was. There was no world that existed where our Navy was going to beat their Navy, especially not then. So, the majority of British naval operations were actually based on the blockade of American ports. But they actually left New England alone. Interesting side part. Why is that? Well, even though they're actively at war, New England openly traded with England
throughout the entire war. This had a lot to do with an incredible anti-war atmosphere in New England. And there was actually... People were afraid New England might secede from the union. It was never really serious. Like, they never put a bill in. There was never like people ready to go to war over it, but they talked about it because they didn't want to be involved. This is why nobody even knows that New England even exists anymore.
Well, I mean, people know about the Patriots. I used to get that going for them. The worst sports fans on earth though. So, and those foodstuffs that New England traded with Old England, England, Britain were actually used directly to feed the British Army fighting Napoleon and Spain during the peninsula war. So, it kind of fucked over our own allies in this one because the war in 1812 would only be going well as long as Britain was distracted
fighting Napoleon. The second England was like, you know, this is getting kind of out of hand. We're just going to crush America. It would have happened. All they'd do is like put their foot down and we would have lost for sure. But it didn't happen. The British blockade was so effective that by the end of the war, most of the American fleet was confined to port and completely unable to leave. Like they just, if they were pulled out, they would have got shot.
It took such a toll on the American economy that experts dropped, exports dropped from $114 million in 1811, the year before the war started, to 20 million in 1814. So, America was on the verge of bankruptcy and had to take out loans to continue the war. How much do you think $20 million from 1812 is today? Still not enough to run a country. Maybe enough to run a state. I don't know. I didn't run the
numbers. But it was a sizable amount. And also outside of France, England was America's number one export customer. So this, it was a, you know, but don't worry. Trade wars are easy and easy to win, right? So during all of this, American, Native and British forces clashed in the south. American forces under the command of General James Wilkinson, who was actually a Spanish spy, who was raking in $4,000 of year and an old timey money for his services to the Spanish crown,
took the mobile area of what is modern day Alabama. So, he was an American commission general, who was actually a Spanish spy fighting in the south. I don't know how that happened, but it happened. Just so many things going on with this guy. And he goes to Alabama. Well, you have to think this is, we're at this is the age of expansion. America wants to get bigger, but I mean, we're in the middle of war. So now's a better chance there is ever to drive south.
We already have the Northwest territory, which would become, you know, Michigan and Ohio. So you might as well drive south. I saw that face. And I was Texas doing it in this time. You're welcome for your independence. So no, obviously, mobile is part of modern day Alabama, but back then, it was actually part of West Florida. This would be the only permanent. Even worse. Right. Sorry, Florida ends if you're listening. Yeah, they have enough issues. They only this shit,
not until. This would actually be the only permanent territorial gain that the US would get during the entire conflict is taking over Alabama. So there's that. Yeah. The actions in the south would lead to a conclusive battle at the Battle of New Orleans. And sorry, New Orleans at the New Orleans. That's one word, I guess. I'll never be able to affect that on way too northern. I'm just lucky enough to have a Canadian accent anymore. And that is lucky. I've heard your sister talk.
Yeah, hers is bad. Yeah, it's it's it's kind of funny. Like a lot of people from like we know a lot of people from like the dirty, dirty south and we'll go home and come back and they sound like they have a mouthful of fucking peanut butter. And when I go home for a prolonged period of time, I envision my family will come back and sound like I just watched too much hockey. Yeah, you always that you always did talk about the southern accent. And then I finally went north one time and was
able to meet your family. Some that's pretty bad. Yeah. You can't talk about the southern accent. We could argue that further, but I don't feel like chasing off any of my southern fans. All three of you unless my dogs count than I have four. So this if you noticed, now we haven't quite got to the peace process, but you will find out later that this battle actually took place after the peace treaty was signed with the British under the command of Edward Pekingham meeting the Americans
under the command of brevet major general Andrew Jackson. Yeah, another former soon to be president. This I swear this war has to have more future presidents than any other war. It's like every battle involves either an officer who'd become a president, a private who'd become a president or somebody else. Also, you don't hear a lot anymore about brevet ranks. Brevet, if people are not aware is kind of like we need this position to be filled by somebody, but it only can be filled by
somebody of a certain rank. So you you're now a major general. Hopefully you earn it and you get to keep it because like at the end you can say you know what we're taking the brevet away, you go back to being a colonel or whatever it was you were before. It doesn't exist anymore. I guess it kind of does as a corporal in the army, but so the battle actually took place five miles away from New Orleans where the modern day town of Clemente stands. I might be pronouncing the wrong people
from Louisiana. I'm sorry, but it's still the battle of New Orleans because New Orleans existed. The British slowly made their way around the city in a day prior, but Jackson it turned out wasn't happy was sitting around and waiting for them to show up. Jackson met the British at the Valleier plantation. While not winning, Jackson showed the British that the upcoming battle
was going to be much harder than they thought it was going to be. And it caused the British to move forward much much more cautiously than before and it bought Jackson time for his army to dig in and get ready for the battle. And dig he would. The earthworks are so large that the soldiers Christian them the Jackson line and the British would test the quality of those lines beginning in artillery barrage on New Year's Day of 1815. They would then launch a two-bronged ground assault
in the middle of the night. There are attempt that stealth failed however and the attacks were repulsed all along the line with the commanding general peck and hen being killed in the process. The British would try and try again armed with ropes and ladders which kind of blows my mind. They built these walls by hand so large that they had these ropes and ladders to get over them. That detail would have sucked to be on. And every single time they'd make it over to the top
the American defenses would kick him right out. A British bugleboy actually scaled a nearby tree to play his heart out to urge on his comrades while bolts pass through right by his head. And he was captured by the end of the battle and celebrated by the Americans as a hero. Finally after a series of failed frontal assaults the British were forced to withdraw. And it's like something people kind of like gloss over in the times of war around now
and they would go on to the Civil War of bugleboys. These are pre-teen boys going into battle armed with a fucking horn. Why? Why? It's a morale thing. So my knowledge of army drilling ceremony, like it shouldn't surprise me. Right. Come on. I have to think how did armies communicate before radios? Eugles, drums. But pre-teen boys, come on now. You're small. And a lot of armies
back then had a huge like demmy army of camp followers. Sometimes this group of camp followers, they would be people who had fixed boots, tear uniform, their prostitutes, kids, beggars, anybody. I mean, through a lot of these areas this army is the number one way to make money. Kind of like now. Except instead of barbershops and shitty fucking restaurants, it's people who'd fixed your uniforms. Hard dealerships and pay day loan places.
Green barbecue. Those are the good ones. They are. And Chinese buffets. But they were a giant generator of money. And this is back when the army wouldn't fix your shift for you. If your boots tore, your uniform tore, your bear go find a tailor. And they were in the camp. Sometimes those people would give end up having kids with people living in the camp or their family was in the camp. And obviously you can't join the military until you're 15 16 back then. And it's a
way to make a paycheck. If I if I joined the military when I was 15 or 16, this army will just think a lot of people who fought World War II were only 15 16 17. They just lie. My grandfather joined the army when he was 15. He lied about his age though. It wasn't legal. And he ended up becoming a green beret. He was. He was a green beret. And tired as a sergeant major. So clearly our weakness in modern day, our army is we're not recruiting the 15 year olds. So we need to
scrape together those child soldiers. I believe they call them boy scouts now though. Bratsey. Yeah. You know, when I was 18 or 19, and I was on a tank crew, the local boy scout troop came through to come look at our tanks. At first, I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool. I was a kid. I love the clam around a tank. And then I saw these like little kids hanging out the commanders and like loaders hatch and like, oh, this got Hitler youth real fast.
Like I am not okay with this. They're good. Soon they're going to get a fucking merit badge for the final solution. And I'm not I'm not cool taking part in this guys. So anyway, Hugo boys hero and the British were kicked back from the battle of New Orleans. Um, after the battle around 500 British soldiers who had been laying around like on the ground, just got up. They weren't dead or booted. They just laid down. They were playing dead. I mean,
soldiers aren't stupid. So they played possum. Yeah. I mean, you have to think even though we always say, especially modern day leaders, I've been on the army for years, but you're still in it. We always say soldiers are stupid. They are to an extent. But they're smart enough to know, like, we're all going to fucking die. Like, you know, it's gone into a little bit. Um, I mean, I guess everybody has their base or human instincts, but soldiers are stupid.
Right. But I mean, especially if you like, your leaders are fleeing, getting shot, a bugleboy is getting fucked up. Like, and you're obviously not making over this wall because the three other waves got broken on it. You're not going to take part. That goes back in what we just talked about. It takes a lot of fear and spree to core and morale to keep these dudes in line getting blasted by 50 caliber muskets. Um, I'm belief in what you're
doing. Right. And I mean, these guys are a thousand miles away from home fighting in fucking New Orleans. You know, they're just going to lay down, which makes me, you know, I haven't heard a lot of this happening. But for more back than curious, how much has actually been happened? Because it's not like they had medics running around. Just lay down. Nobody's going to look at you twice. Right. And you're wearing red. Nobody's even knows if you're bleeding.
Um, so they just spring back up and strutted to the Americans completely in her British losses in the attack very. There's, you know, a huge antedotal evidence and this battle has been blown out of proportion in the modern day American military history, Methos. The Brits say only about 200 soldiers died. I've found American sources say 700 British soldiers died. I've seen some that say 2000 British soldiers died. Um, I have no idea what the Americans say they lost 13 people.
I believe that this being a siege battle behind apparently huge press works and fighting people who are trying to climb up the wall. I, but this battle, while it is a victory and at this point early in, um, early in American history, uh, any victory against a huge empire, which we would end up turning into generations later. It is an underlying. So it's great as country in the world. Yeah, apparently Britain was just trying to make this all great again by retaking the colonies.
But, um, you know, nobody knows how many birds died, but it was enough for them to decide this was worth it. They pulled back. So I said somewhere between 200 and 2000. I don't know. It was enough. So large gap. Yeah. And this battle became known as the Miracle of Norland's with the Americans outnumbered and the city and verge of being captured. Um, what the Ursulae nuns, along with many fateful people in Norlands gathered at the Ursulaean Convince Chapel,
before the statue of our lady of Prump Sucker. Um, excuse me. I don't know. I don't know you Catholics. Every single guest I have in the show is a fucking Catholic. I don't know how you keep doing this. Seems like a you problem. No, all terrible Catholics. Everybody's a terrible Catholic. I haven't met
a great one. Yeah. Well, the great ones are terrible in different ways. So they spent the night before the battle, praying and crying before the holy statue begging for the Virgin Mary's intercession in the battle, uh, because the Virgin Mary is known for her Prump trigger discipline and direction of combat. Um, on the morning of January 8th, uh, the Reverend William DeBorg, who is the Vickard General. I'm not, I don't know. A religious rank, um, offered mass at the
altar on which the statue of our lady of Prump Sucker had been placed. I'm just going to assume that that's like the Chaplin. I don't know. He wasn't in the army. He was a civilian. Well, if he's the Vickard General, I'm assuming that's like a Chaplin type position. Oh, Vickard's a Catholic thing, isn't it? Or is it? Uh, maybe no, it probably isn't a Catholic thing because I didn't look into this. I'm pretty sure England wasn't Catholic at the time. I think they're Protestant.
I know there are Vickers and Tithausses. I, I haven't been Catholic in a long time. So I can't really speak through it. I know I'm going to get chewed up for this one on Twitter, but I didn't look into the religious aspect. Guys, I wasn't important to the battle. I'm just, I'm just going to assume that this guy is similar as a Chaplin because a Chaplin could literally be any religion and could support all religions within its ranks. Yeah. And, you know, um, I mean, we had a
Buddhist Chaplin in our, yeah, I've never seen one of those. I had a Sikh Chaplin. Um, I seen one. He was in a my unit and he's a cap that are a major. I don't remember which. And, everybody thought he was like one of those foreign officers who came to train. You know, he's wearing ACU's and ACU turban on. And everybody gave me shit when I salute him. He was a fucking captain, guys. You fucked up. There's only like one or two of them in the entire army. There's
a Chaplin or two. And there's a surgeon who was the first person ever given a waiver for his beard in his hair and his turban. It's all, they're all aspects of Sikhism. You have to be able to have those. And he was giving a, and it was this huge thing in the every times years ago. And, well, the god damn Muslims have beards now because people are too dumbed realizing two different religions. Of course. Because people don't even realize that even among the Muslims, there are
so many different cultures and races in religions. Yeah. Like people don't realize like the most populous Muslim country is not in the Middle East. Right. It, uh, well, I, you know, I touched it in my book again, another plug that a lot of soldiers that we were with thought Afghanists and was in the least. And what is that book called again? The Huligans of Kandahar. Yeah. Um, so, uh, getting back on topic, before I plug my book, a fourth time, um, he was offering mass.
And, uh, the priors of the Ursula and Convent, Mother St. Marie Oliver Devinson made a vow to have a mass of Thanksgiving sung annually. Should the American forces win because this is a long shot at the time. Also, I know. So I have been also hated on for how I pronounce French words. I, I am a novice at French at best. And one of our listeners is a former French Legionnaire from Britain. And he's like, bro, your, your French, your French is making me want to stab myself in the
ears. Does this former French Legionnaire really call you bro? Yeah. Yeah. He's like, he'll, he'll, he was in the Legion like decades ago, uh, which is actually kind of cool. He was probably in the same time as my grandpa was. Well, hello to you. Yeah. He's going to be on the show eventually one time and we'll be able to talk to him about the Legion. But he's like, oh, you're fucking French pronunciations makes me want to die. Well, there's another one for
you. I'm sorry. Um, and you know, this battle supposed to be long shot. They're praying for this victory. And then at the very moment of communion, a choreur ran into the chapel and informed all those present that the British had been defeated. So I was like, oh, the Virgin Mary came down and stacked bodies in the name of New Orleans. Um, thanks, Mary. Yeah. Mary don't fuck around. Yeah. Uh, she's not going to play with no. She did the kill shot, turned her pistol side,
flint, lot of pistol sideways. Uh, so general Jackson went into the convent himself and thank the nuns for their prayers and said, quote, by the blessing of the heaven, directing the valor of the troops under my command, one of the most brilliant victories in the annals of war has been obtained. The vow, uh, by this mother St. Marie, it actually been, has been faithfully kept until this day.
So good on you, mother St. Marie. Um, so after years of war and no one really gaining anything, because you have the things like, and at this time it was, uh, part of the Americans declaration, they wanted to take over Canada. Also, they wanted to expand west. Also, they wanted to expand south.
They've done none of those things. They'd actually failed at all of them. Um, and Britain wanted to secure Canada, make a buffer zone for the Native American soldiers or the first nations, uh, civilizations that kind of make sure the Americans couldn't make Canada and failed at that. So nobody's gathering any kind of gains here. Uh, finally, the two sides sat down for peace at the city of Gent and Flanders, which is modern ape Belgium. Uh, they actually began peace talks in
1814. And because both actors in the room are mature adults, they quickly broke down to meaningless bickering and arguing. Um, you know, and that's how I think of most diplomatic meetings go. Like they take nowadays, and they're going to take their fucking pictures in front of cameras, and CNN and Fox all that shit. They go into the back rooms. And I swear to God, there's
somebody there just to make sure they don't swing at each other. I would imagine so. Even though they're all like old ass crippled white dudes, like I still think that there's like a referee like, yeah, no going for the throat there, sir. Knowing what I know about higher ranking officials and the military and say our commander and chief, the government in general. I mean, government employees are mature toddlers. Yes. And that goes for soldiers as well. Uh, toddlers is, is
being optimistic as far as soldiers go. Uh, well, the British were insistent about that buffer state that I talked about. And America demanded that British pay for reparations in the burning of Washington and return all the runaway slaves had run the bridge for protection. Bad looking on you, Washington. Um, actually neither side agreed to those terms, uh, because, uh, slavery was pretty much banned in the entirety of the civilized world. Napoleon actually brought
it back in France momentarily before outlying again. Um, we're pretty much the last country and earth I did it at this time. So, uh, I talked about in part two, uh, this kind of ironic that, uh, African American freed slaves were some of the soldiers that took a burden burning down Washington and mother of God that must have felt good for them. Isn't it ironic? And, um, so several
plans were drawn up and then dropped. Uh, so Lord Liverpool, the British Prime Minister, urged a status quo agreement, which, uh, effectively means, quote, let's just all go back now things weren't pretending this never happened. Like, because they were never, nobody was ever going to go what they wanted. So like, guys, let's just wash our hands of this. Let's just pretend it didn't
happen. Uh, this was for several reasons. One, the British demand for a buffer state was rental moot once the cumso was killed and increased taxes back in England to fund their war, because they're increasing taxes to fund the war in America and the fun, uh, the, the fun the war on the continent was giving piss people off. Um, and also the Americans had no real points to push. Every single point they'd used the declared war had been rectified before the first shots of
even been fired. Um, the impression of sailors was over. Um, they, they got rid of the, um, the law that said they couldn't trade France anymore. These were, these were all the reasons that the American went to war and they were all gone before even the first battle. So now they have no reason to have nothing to press during this peace treaty agreements. Um, so on December 24, 1814, the two sides signed the Treaty of Gantt. It was quickly ratified in England and three days
later was approved by the Americans on 17th of February 1850. If you're doing the math in your head, you'll realize that the British had a greed and ratified this treaty and then launched their attack on mobile in New Orleans. Um, this wasn't an unknown thing to soldiers on the ground, because British commanders actually ordered, uh, their sub commanders to keep prosecuting the war
until President Mass and signed, um, the treaty, which is a month later. Um, this was despite the fact that the trees points were already agreed on and nothing they would have gained would have mattered because there's a status quo agreement. If they would have magically captured New Orleans or mobile, they wouldn't just be able to keep it. They'd have to give it back. Um, in doing so, they lost around a thousand more soldiers than they had to and began the legend
of future President Andrew Jackson. So, uh, good job, guys. Uh, Andrew Jackson was kind of an asshole and not a great president. So thanks. Seems to be a theme here in America. Yeah. Um, at least use a good commander. Uh, now comes the question that has been burning people for around 200 years. Who the hell won the war? Um, historian generally believe,
and agree the words are draw at best and American tactical defeat at worse. Um, the British generally don't think of the war as anything other than a small side war to the much larger and more important Napoleonic wars that had began once again in 1815 as a pulling to accept exile from Elba Island, which also helped press home they designed the treaty. Uh, it was such a minor footnote British military history. It was hardly even talked about until recently. Um, it can hardly be thought
of as an American victory. Um, you have to think of the reason why America went to war. They wanted to expand. Uh, they America wanted to capture Canada since Revolutionary War. We invaded Canada under any Revolutionary War and lost and did that again three more times. Um, nobody gained any their tactical victories here. Um, the only thing you can kind of know this might be unpopular because while, uh, you know, England burnt down the White House, they burned down a lot of the
capital. They effectively picked and choose the battles in one them at will, um, with the exception of New Orleans, but they were also fighting with one hand tied behind their back. Uh, half the army was gone. Uh, they're almost their entire Navy was gone. Um, they were fighting someone much more strong, much more independent and with much more dire circumstances that was not America. Um, and we weren't exactly being helped by France, but this war could have kept going on as long as
the point kept fighting. And it was really only when the war was over, um, and he went into exile that we decided like we should probably start finding a way out of this. And that was when the last kind of the battles in the South, uh, those were we have to try to negotiate a position of strength, uh, which is pretty common throughout the history of war. Should I take as much as you can before the negotiations? Um, so the one American victory was nothing out of American, uh, Native American
resistance in the Northwest territory. Um, I mean, it would go on, but the concept of a buffer state never materialized again. Um, despite multiple invasions, Canada would say British colony and the natives would continue their resistance in America for about another 10 years. Um, it was framed by some as a second war of independence because they're British, because the Americans won regain
their honor that they had lost from the British impressment on the high seas. I mean, it's kind of got to be, uh, demoralizing moment to not only accept you get defeated by who's effectively your fucking grandpa, uh, in international relations. And then he stole your sailors like you,
you were powerless to get them back. Um, what it did show is that America was strong and a federally controlled army was absolutely necessary, which they promptly got around doing when the Civil War kicked off a few decades later, thanks to our friend, former private James Buchanan you asshole. Um, the real maybe only victor of this war was Canada are great friends up north. Um, I love
me some Canadians in front of Michigan. Oh, Canada. Yeah. Uh, so the Canadians defended their land from multiple invasions for my much better arm train and much more numerous army with a little more than a bunch of militia and French speaking for trappers. Um, now there was the British had a, had a small garrison in Canada. They had a militia much like we did. Um, but much less tested, I guess.
They definitely, they definitely didn't just get done finding war of independence. Um, and at the outset of the American invasion of Canada, like we just thought we were going to march in a Canada and take it. And that, and that being so incredibly wrong, it was embarrassing. Um, we failed numerous times trying to attack Canada and Canada beat us back with almost nothing. Um, this victory actually came a culture that the Americans had after the revolution. That was we don't need this
huge standing army to defend ourselves. We have our militia. Uh, and that attitude would keep a hold on Canada all the way until World War One. So is a pretty strong impression that it left on Canada much more than America were like by the Civil War, the only thing you ever hear about the war of 1812 was like the president fought it. Yeah. We have a couple officers who fought it like it was a footnote, but I assume that has to do with when you fight so many wars that effectively the
small ones have, you know, get pushed to the side. Um, in fact, uh, the war of 1812 was considered the second most important historical moment in Canadian history according to a recent poll. Second only after World War One where other Commonwealth States like, uh, New Zealand and Australia would also have a national awakening after seeing the cost that they pay in the trenches. Um, in passion, Dell and, uh, aglippily is effectively. Um, there's one loser this war though and that
and it would always be an American history. That is the natives. One historian put it quote, big loser in the war were the Indians as a proportion of their population they suffered the heaviest casualties worse. They're left without any reliable European allies in North America. They're crushing defeat at fames and the horseshoe bend left them at the mercy of the Americans hastening their confinement to have reservations in the decline of their traditional way of life.
So only real winner here. Canada, the real fucking loser here, Native Americans. Native Americans have been the constant loser throughout history. Unfortunately. Yeah. I mean, think, think in like, if you're going to think an alternative alternative history route here, let's say Britain gets their way and Ohio and southern Michigan and whatever else they want to turn into this confederacy of Indian states that exists and say it continues existing and then fast forward a little bit longer
to the Civil War. What would that confederacy do with Saddler join? What would it do when the Indian war start in the late 1800s after the Civil War when things like little big horn and wound in knee happen? It would have been a game changer. It would have given not only would that confederacy assuming it existed and survived and continued growing. It would have continued being fed by the British because that's something that they do. That's where we learned it from is having these
proxy buffer states everywhere. It would have made some kind of defensible bastion in North America for the Native Americans. It would not have made them able to be so easily victimized. I guess this is where we got our fine start as a nation. There was another war with the Native's and part one I went over but really from here on out the Repshits Creek out of paddle.
The reason why those wars happened and also we fought the Indians and the French and Indian war was because there was always some kind of European power that was propping them up and feeding them weapons and like, hey, go shoot those people. But once all that's gone, the only thing that remained were Americans are remembered constantly fighting Indians for decades. It did not end well for them. So that is the end of the war on 1812 series, the war on the year.
I don't know. I feel like we could have because 1812 seemed like it really sucked. So thanks for sticking with us during our first series as a podcast. You can expect more of these. The next one up is the Iran Iraq war and you'll get part one of that. As always, you can follow the show on Twitter at lions underscore buy. You can now follow us on Instagram at lions led by Donkeys podcast where I post tons of stupid history memes. You can follow me on Twitter
at jcast99. Can't follow Richardson on anything because she's smart enough to stay a fucking social media. Good on you. Go me. Yeah. I won that war. The best way to survive social media is just never being involved in it at all. Please thank you everybody for donating on the Patreon. Our podcast will always be free. But if you think what we do is worth a dollar, you can throw us one there. And with one dollar of a donation, you will have full access to our onus episodes coming in the
future. We plan doing it at least once a month, sometimes more depending on how much time we can get out of Nick. So thanks so much to start to reach in for stopping by again. She'll probably be stopping by more and more as we do extra content. It's hard to get people in here. I live in the middle of nowhere in Washington. So thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. I love learning. So yeah, and there's no better way to learn than sitting in your room full of dogs and wine and
whiskey. Honestly, I could not think of a better way. Yeah. So thanks again for everybody for stopping by. We will see you next time.