Inside OpenClaw: Should You Actually Use It? Probably Not.

Speaker0: OpenClaw was a weekend project that turned into the fastest growing open source project ever. Speaker0: It got acquired by OpenAI in just 80 days for billions of dollars. Speaker0: But the number one question we keep asking ourselves is, Speaker0: What can this thing actually do? Is this something for me or someone more technical? Speaker0: Is this something that is useful for me right now? Or do I just need to wait Speaker0: for a bit? So we did all the hard work for you.

Speaker0: We've been testing OpenClaw ourselves for the last week, watching every single Speaker0: demo we could get a hand on. Speaker0: And on this episode, we're going to show you exactly what OpenClaw can do, Speaker0: from all the manual stuff to all the actual really useful, mind-blowing stuff. Speaker0: And we're going to answer one simple question. Is this for you?

Speaker1: The answers to a lot of these questions might surprise you. and Speaker1: the way we're going to outline this is is kind of through three archetypes the Speaker1: first being the operator and builder this is kind of Speaker1: the person who creates net new value maybe the entrepreneur Speaker1: the second is the knowledge worker or the creator this is Speaker1: kind of where we fall into as podcasters and then we have the Speaker1: privacy focused professionals and within

Speaker1: that there's a lot of cool use cases and examples so the first one that we want to Speaker1: highlight here is this guy nat eliason he's this incredible follow on twitter Speaker1: and he released a bot called felixbot and felixbot was an agent that his OpenClaw Speaker1: spawned up and FelixBot has done a series of incredible things that I didn't Speaker1: think were possible and allowed me to reconsider what OpenClaw is actually capable of.

Speaker1: So in this instance, he trained FelixBot to make him money. Speaker1: And what we're seeing on screen here is the first post of the weekly revenue Speaker1: numbers in which FelixCraft, FelixBot, whatever you want to call it, Speaker1: it actually generated $41,000 in a week. Now, how did it do this?

Speaker1: First, it created its own book. So this Felix Craft bot, by interfacing with Speaker1: Nat, decided that it was best in order to make money to create a book about Speaker1: AI and about OpenClaw and sell that book. Speaker1: It then marketed its own book through this Twitter profile that we're looking at right now. Speaker1: And it sold 132 copies in that one week that yielded $3,828. Speaker1: Now, the second thing it did is it went and it spawned up a token.

Speaker1: And it earned trading fees on that token from people who are speculating. Speaker1: And the trading fees from that token were $37,698. Speaker1: And this was all done through the text interface on Telegram Speaker1: Going back and forth, chatting with the bot, asking it what to do. Speaker1: And it had the agency and it had the creativity to go and create these pieces of value. Speaker1: Now, the next thing that this thing built is this service called ClawMart.

Speaker1: And ClawMart is what we're seeing on screen here. Speaker1: It's a service in which agents, OpenClaw instances, can sell their skills to other OpenClaws. Speaker1: So if I was using my OpenClaw and I was actually scrolling through the website Speaker1: and I was looking at interesting things.

Speaker1: And one that I found really cool was they had this browser-based research tool Speaker1: that allowed you to scan through a lot of the top news articles and understand Speaker1: what was happening in the world of AI and Frontier technology. Speaker1: I could have my CloudBot instance go to this website that FelixBot built and Speaker1: buy a skill from it that teaches it how to do these skills. Speaker1: So you could see the most popular persona is the Felix one.

Speaker1: He's selling it for $99 on the website where you can actually emulate all Speaker1: of the abilities of this agent and i found this to be Speaker1: such a fun interesting use case of how you can actually Speaker1: use this thing to generate money and generate real productive value like claw Speaker1: mart is a really valuable service that i think a lot of other ais can use and Speaker1: it's funny because it's all ai to ai transactions i think in the last week there's

Speaker1: a post somewhere that says they had two thousand dollars in sales transactions Speaker1: between OpenClaw agents it's pretty awesome Yeah, Speaker0: Yeah, super cool. What this reminds me of is the early versions of the Apple App Store. Speaker0: It kind of looks like an app store as you're scrolling through this, Speaker0: except it's like services through these agents. Speaker0: I think this is the future of how all these online interactions actually happen.

Speaker0: It kind of makes sense that an agent doesn't really interact with another human, Speaker0: and it doesn't really kind of code skills from scratch each and every time. Speaker0: This is the whole argument around the SaaS debate and why SaaS stocks have been dumping. Speaker0: It's because, oh, this AI can just kind of vibe code your product.

Speaker0: No, that's not really what's going to happen. you're going to just rely on the Speaker0: agent that has the best product and pay them whatever it is between 50 to 100 Speaker0: bucks to get access to that thing. And turns out these things kind of make money. Speaker0: In this particular example, I think they're using kind of crypto or stablecoin Speaker0: payments to pay for each of these different skill accesses, which kind of gives

Speaker0: them this autonomous feel. Now, it's not quite autonomous. Speaker0: They're not kind of like independently doing this themselves. Speaker0: They're being directed by their human supervisors, if you want to call them Speaker0: that, the owners or the creators of these different OpenClaw agents, Speaker0: but it's still nevertheless very cool to see. Speaker0: And the speed at which these things are kind of popping up every now and then, Josh, is kind of crazy.

Speaker0: And I think that's kind of like the main message I want to like share for this particular archetype. Speaker0: If you are someone that has high agency or that has a lot of operational work Speaker0: in their lives and you want to try and automate that and you have the kind of Speaker0: technical know-how skill set to interact with the CLI interface or whatever Speaker0: that might be, you can do these right now. Speaker0: And these demos really, really prove that.

Speaker0: There's one other example that I want to show, which I thought was kind of crazy. Speaker0: This guy wanted to buy a car, AJ Steubenberg. Speaker0: And he asked his Claude bot the night before he went to bed, Speaker0: this is the car model that I'm looking for. Speaker0: This is the kind of price range I'm looking for. I think he said it was like Speaker0: $10,000 to $15,000 that he was willing to spend. I think it was secondhand.

Speaker0: And he specified his area that he lives in. And he said, if you could do some Speaker0: research for me, and if you find a good deal, let me know. It took two to three days, Speaker0: This AI agent didn't ping him at all, handled the negotiations, Speaker0: found the car room, evaluated the car itself online through imagery, Speaker0: cross-referenced it with a bunch of other show dealers.

Speaker0: And in the end, not only did it get him his dream car, but he saved him $4,200 doing that. Speaker0: That would have taken a car dealer or some kind of like intermediate broker Speaker0: to do that for you, which you would need to pay that $4,200 for. Speaker0: But an agent did this for the cost of your electricity. It's pretty awesome.

Speaker1: Yeah, and why is this unique to OpenClaw? it's because of the Speaker1: tool use if you think of OpenClaw it's kind of like giving hands Speaker1: and a tool belt to something like chat gpt Speaker1: where now it has the ability to go and use tools Speaker1: on your behalf so in this example where it saved this Speaker1: person forty two hundred dollars in a car purchase it contacted dealers via Speaker1: email and iMessage because if you run it on a mac mini it can actually control

Speaker1: your i messages um and it handles the back and forth negotiation it actually Speaker1: works directly with the dealer in a long time frame in which you can't do using Speaker1: these traditional products.

Speaker1: So a product like Claude Cowork, it probably wouldn't be able to handle this Speaker1: because it doesn't have the extensive Speaker1: tool use or the thinking patterns or the heartbeats baked into it to continue Speaker1: to follow up over and over and over for multiple days without prompting it at all. Speaker1: So this to me, the really cool example, because everyone buys cars, Speaker1: right? And this applies to other things.

Speaker1: A lot of people buy stuff on Facebook marketplace. They're looking for a specific Speaker1: thing somewhere. It can just go scan it. It can negotiate on your behalf.

Speaker1: You could tell it the parameters that you want. And it's a pretty powerful use case. Speaker0: So moving on to the second archetype of user, we kind of bracket this as the Speaker0: knowledge worker or the creator, right? Speaker0: So this is kind of like you have some competency using computer. Speaker0: Maybe you do it in your day to day, but it doesn't consume your entire life. Speaker0: And you want to know what OpenClaw can do for you.

Speaker0: There's this really fun example that you had here, Josh. Let's walk through it. Speaker1: Oh, this was great. Yeah. So there's this woman. She's so sweet. Speaker1: She lives at home with her kids and she's homeschooling them. Speaker1: And she has created this curriculum that she wants to teach her kids throughout the school year. Speaker1: And she fed the curriculum to her agent, her OpenClaw instance.

Speaker1: What she also did is she bought a 3d printer for the Speaker1: home and because gemini 3 now works Speaker1: with 3d printer files she created an api Speaker1: key she fed the api key to her OpenClaw agent Speaker1: and she said hey go through the itinerary that Speaker1: i have developed for my children who i'm teaching a series of different Speaker1: subjects figure out which subjects are interactive Speaker1: enough to warrant you printing a 3d printed

Speaker1: like thing let's say you're learning about biology it'll 3d print Speaker1: a brain or 3d print a bone to see what it looks like Speaker1: and proactively go and print these items for each day's agenda so she hooked Speaker1: it up to her 3d printer she gave it a gemini api key and now every day before Speaker1: the kids are going to learn their lesson the printer turns on it spins up it

Speaker1: 3d prints whatever they're going to be learning about for the day and they had this visual aid Speaker1: that's physical and tangible to help them with the lessons. Speaker1: So it's really bizarre and strange use case, but fun. It's like you really are Speaker1: only limited by your creativity when it comes to using this stuff. Speaker0: Within this archetype, I also want to use our personal experience interacting with CloudBot.

Speaker0: You and I have been testing it around for about a week or so. Speaker0: And we've also been comparing it with other similar tools like CloudCowork. Speaker0: As podcast creators or content creators in general, one massive unlock for CloudBot Speaker0: is that it automates not just the research side of things, which I relied upon Speaker0: for ChatGPT or Anthropics Claude quite a bit, but it actually kind of helps form the agendas.

Speaker0: I can connect it and it texts me about certain updates of news headlines and stuff like that. Speaker0: The major unlock for me, at least, is that added step of cognition for me, Speaker0: that instead of me being like, oh, I see this news article, here are my thoughts Speaker0: on it, let's put that in a document and let's create an outline for it.

Speaker0: Claudebot can actually just do all of that for me. Now, it comes with a twist, Speaker0: which is you need to give Claudebot access to, I keep calling it Claudebot, Speaker0: it's OpenClaw, but it was also called AutoClaudebot as well. Speaker0: You need to give it access to certain files, components, and your desktop. Speaker0: So you need to be comfortable enough to know that and also have the know-how Speaker0: to make sure that it doesn't become a larger security implication,

Speaker0: it's really useful for just automating a bunch of stuff. And the net positive Speaker0: is I have a bunch of free time now for me to do other stuff to create other kind of episode stuff. Speaker1: So my experience has actually been a little bit different than that using it Speaker1: because the one use case that I had is well, we spend a lot of time on Limitless. Speaker1: How can I automate as much of the process as possible? So we spoke for a little while.

Speaker1: I probably spent half a day pretty Speaker1: casually kind of going back and forth over the course of half a day, Speaker1: just really explaining to it what I need, how things work, Speaker1: where it could possibly help me and what i found is Speaker1: that every along every step we would create a new Speaker1: skill there were more and more blockers and more Speaker1: and more like issues that i would run into that i had to fix i had to get api

Speaker1: keys i had to use different browser sessions it created a lot of complexity Speaker1: that for it to actually help me and do the things that i wanted to do i found Speaker1: it really it was just taking more time than it was worth to debug all of these Speaker1: things every time we tried to So for example, Speaker1: I was trying to get it to upload our content to YouTube and to Spotify and to Speaker1: RSS where everyone listens to the episode.

Speaker1: And it wasn't able to get access to the browser the way we needed it unless I had an open tab. Speaker1: And even through Brave, you had to feed it your API keys and login details, Speaker1: which was a little scary. Speaker1: And there were just a lot of errors and bugs. And then overnight, Speaker1: I told it to update itself.

Speaker1: I woke up in the morning and it was dead. And I had to spend Speaker1: an hour reviving it and debugging it so it's it's a Speaker1: highly technical process that does have a Speaker1: lot of upside but i find that there are still a lot of growing pains with an Speaker1: early open source beta software so while these are great use cases and there Speaker1: are some good ones there is also generally a lot of pain and troubleshooting

Speaker1: that comes associated with these prior to i guess eclipsing that threshold in Speaker1: which it becomes worth it Speaker1: And some of these people like Nat, clearly he's eclipsed that threshold where Speaker1: he has learned, he has trained his bot, he has worked with it enough to make Speaker1: it proficient and highly skilled and actually deliver value.

Speaker1: But I think in order to get there requires a lot of persistence and troubleshooting Speaker1: and technical ability that maybe a lot of people either don't have or maybe Speaker1: just don't want to commit to do. Speaker0: I mean, just to engage with this thing in the first place, you need to go through Speaker0: an entire setup of understanding what Node.js is, installing that. Speaker0: Interacting with the command line interface and a bunch of other different things.

Speaker0: But there's an additional tier that you can access here, which is archetype Speaker0: number three, which is the privacy-conscious individual. Speaker0: And the kind of way that I would describe this individual is they want to run Speaker0: this AI agent locally at home. They'll buy the hardware and infrastructure. Speaker0: The popular case has been the Mac Mini, which is sold out across any kind of Speaker0: Apple interface that you can or store that you can buy this from right now.

Speaker0: I think it goes for about 600 bucks per unit and run it locally at home. Speaker0: And the advantage of this is that all your data and tool access is private. Speaker0: So the comparison here would be if you gave. Speaker0: Google, OpenAI, or Anthropic Access via a same service, they would be able to Speaker0: see all your stuff and potentially use that data for something else.

Speaker0: Now, of course, you sign terms and agreements that says that they won't use Speaker0: it, but there's always that risk. Speaker0: So for the privacy conscious, for the open source people that want to run things Speaker0: locally at home, this tier is for them. Speaker0: And it brings up an interesting conversation around this thing called on-prem becoming the new cloud.

Speaker0: Now, on-prem stands for on-premise, which is basically moving your hardware Speaker0: onto your own home ground, where you run and operate your own hardware instead Speaker0: of relying on cloud or private instances of cloud, Speaker0: which is funny because it kind of sounds like we're going backwards here, Speaker0: but it sounds like it's the most important arsenal going forwards into this Speaker0: AI future where you probably don't want all your email credentials,

Speaker0: credit card credentials, or any of that being exposed to bigger corporations. Speaker0: So it actually requires you to run this at home. Speaker1: Yeah, and there was a great study that I saw from Basecamp, who is, Speaker1: they're just a big compute provider.

Speaker1: And they posted an article saying why we Speaker1: left the cloud and the highlight of this article was actually leaving the Speaker1: cloud will save them 10 million dollars over five Speaker1: years which is a huge amount of savings and not only that but the security features Speaker1: are going to be much stronger like you mentioned people who work with something Speaker1: that is a little more sensitive than average let's say you're working in legal

Speaker1: or you're a psychologist and you don't want to break that privacy layer a lot Speaker1: of the value from this will come from the fact that it truly is open source Speaker1: and it can be run locally on your own machines. Speaker1: Even so, you mentioned the Mac Mini, the Mac Studio, which is the level up from Speaker1: the Mac Mini, has enough RAM and enough compute power that it can actually run Speaker1: these open source Chinese models that have come out recently.

Speaker1: Locally on a single machine and therefore you Speaker1: can run the entire operation local to your machine nothing leaves it's all open Speaker1: source code and that's a really high value thing for a lot of these companies Speaker1: and when you when you scale that up i mean past the individual user you get Speaker1: to large corporations they don't want to leak out this data and creating these Speaker1: corporate plans with custom rollouts is very difficult so why not just buy

Speaker1: a whole bunch of Mac studios and run local models on-prem. Speaker1: I mean, it's a really valid argument. And I think it starts with the user level Speaker1: now, but I can very clearly see this continuing through these examples like Speaker1: Basecamp and many more that they're going to continue to pivot towards more Speaker1: on-prem compute. It makes a lot of sense.

Speaker0: Yeah, and just to be clear, the security implications are a lot bigger and maybe Speaker0: understated throughout all the OpenClaw hype.

Speaker0: Let me present a different question or proposition to you. Speaker0: Imagine giving chat GPT that you interact with every single day, Speaker0: access to your wallet, your medical records, and allowing it to run loose in Speaker0: the world and do whatever it wants independently. Speaker0: The difference here is previously you needed to prompt it to do something. Speaker0: Now using OpenClaw, it just goes off and does things. You would maybe feel a

Speaker0: little cautious. I know I do. Speaker0: And so some of these security risks are actually real. Like two examples that Speaker0: I have here is this guy was using OpenClaw and he noticed that his agent was Speaker0: trying to brute force into his own server, which he did not give access to. Speaker0: Brute force meaning trying to Speaker0: crack his literal password to get it to and overcome his firewall, right?

Speaker0: It's a Trojan horse. The Trojan horse, exactly. So if you kind of like, Speaker0: and this was him running it on a VPS, by the way. Speaker0: So if he had been running this locally at home, which someone that I know, Speaker0: oh yeah, that's right, it was me, did it the first instance that I set this thing up. Speaker0: It could potentially do to certain security complications.

Speaker0: It's funny, before recording this, Josh, you were describing an instance where Speaker0: OpenClaw agents can audit themselves. Speaker0: And I remember seeing an example of someone asking their agent to do this and Speaker0: it indirectly managed to get the password credentials to someone's credit card, Speaker0: to their owner's credit card via doing that.

Speaker0: And it kind of automated itself and said, hey, I probably shouldn't have done Speaker0: this, but just letting you know that I did do this, right? Speaker0: So there's all these different kind of prompt injection vectors or hack kind Speaker0: of vectors that could lead you to kind of getting maliciously exploited.

Speaker0: But I want to move away from this and address kind of like the elephant in the room, which is Speaker0: If you wanted to run this yourself, what are we looking at here? Speaker0: What does the setup look like? Is this something easy that I can do and spin Speaker0: up in one click? Or is this something much, much harder? Speaker1: Yeah, it depends on your technical abilities, really, and your willingness to Speaker1: pursue troubleshooting.

Speaker1: Because it doesn't always go smooth. And if you aren't familiar with a command Speaker1: line interface, it gets a little tricky at times. Speaker1: I think one of the important things to note is where we are right now is very Speaker1: open-ended and early. So what this is, is very much a...

Speaker1: An experimental software that is untapped in its potential, but as a result Speaker1: has a lot of fuzzy edges that you're going to have to work through in order Speaker1: to extract the value that you want. Speaker1: What we're seeing is a progression towards more focused versions of this through Speaker1: these new deployments like OpenAI, I'm sure it's going to do through the acquisition. Speaker1: But if you do want to set it up, you're going to want to get familiar with the

Speaker1: command line. And there's a lot of great tutorials about it.

Speaker1: The website that we're showing on screen right now called MyClaw, and Speaker1: we'll link it in the description it's a really amazing website that shows Speaker1: you specific examples of actual use Speaker1: cases that you can have so we have auto flight check-in and Speaker1: smart file management and automated grocery ordering and this is an easy way Speaker1: to kind of start to build in these integrations as you experiment but i think

Speaker1: the reality is is that this is for someone who wants to experiment doesn't mind Speaker1: troubleshooting is technically adept and in the case that you are not, Speaker1: which I assume is actually a majority of the people listening to this, Speaker1: the best thing you could do is get that $20 a month Claude subscription, Speaker1: get on Claude Cowork, and let it interact with local instances on your computer.

Speaker1: Because Claude Cowork has the security parameters in place, it works locally Speaker1: to specific folders at a time, and it has this amazing agentic ability to control your Chrome browser. Speaker1: So it can do all the browsing tasks for you just in a much more constrained Speaker1: and focused way that I think is much easier, but also a lot more valuable to Speaker1: a lot of people than going through the headaches of getting this sorted and set up.

Speaker0: I mean, there's trade-offs between those two tools as well, right? Speaker0: Like Claude Cowork, we want to get to the ability and capability of OpenClaw, but it's not there yet. Speaker0: It's more censored. Think of Claude Cowork as like a censored version right Speaker0: now, whereas OpenClaw is kind of uncensored. Speaker0: It can run off and do anything it wants. And there's pros and cons, obviously, to both.

Speaker0: But I think that's the major benefit to OpenAI acquiring OpenClaw. Speaker0: In about three to six months, we're going to have Claude Coworker V2 and OpenAI Claw. Speaker0: Maybe that's the new version of the bot that we're going to talk about. Speaker0: That will be this more curated experience that is more secure. Speaker0: It runs within a sandbox. You know exactly what it's doing and it can't run Speaker0: off and steal your credit card information.

Speaker0: Now, if you want to set this up now, if you're listening to this and you're Speaker0: still like, I don't want to wait three to six months, I want to try this. Speaker0: My advice would be simple.

Speaker0: Host it on a cloud vps when you set this up Speaker0: make sure you set api limits and access so that it doesn't but you don't wake Speaker0: up the next day and it's burned like eight hundred dollars worth of your code Speaker0: code tokens please don't do that um i've seen many cases of people doing that Speaker0: and it's it's not great run it in a docker sandbox so that it's not uh available

Speaker0: to access any tools that you don't want it to um and the last point that i'll say is Speaker0: just start off with one use case. Maybe the morning brief example that Josh Speaker0: gave earlier on in this episode or something that can help automate one aspect of your work. Speaker0: But just don't give it access to any financials just yet. These things will Speaker0: get kind of way more powerful over time.

Speaker0: And I think I read somewhere that there were 19 releases, so updates for OpenClaw in the last 14 days. Speaker0: Think about that. Imagine how often you get iOS security update or like iOS software update. Speaker0: Imagine 14 of them, and 19 of them in the last 14 days just insane so this thing Speaker0: is improving very quickly.

Speaker1: Yeah and if you didn't understand some of the words that you Speaker1: just was just saying like using docker for instance uh my Speaker1: preference and my suggestion would just be hey wait like other Speaker1: companies are working so fast to roll this out in fact we have Speaker1: two instances already happening this week the first being manis which Speaker1: um you might remember that old company that meta Speaker1: bought they rolled out manis and um manis is

Speaker1: essentially meta's version of OpenClaw except it Speaker1: has a little bit more rails it has a nice user interface and it's Speaker1: it's very easily accessible for people who aren't very technical and Speaker1: the second is kimmy claw kimmy actually rolled out their own instance kimmy Speaker1: the chinese model that we covered in a previous episode um they rolled out an Speaker1: instance that you can actually go and use through again a user interface and

Speaker1: i'm sure open ai and chat gpt are working very quickly to roll this out and Speaker1: integrate this in a way that's approachable so i'd say using OpenClaw today Speaker1: is an open source open-ended wild west version but if you just wait a few more weeks, Speaker1: there will be plenty of instances in which you have something that exists closer Speaker1: in between Claude Co-Work and OpenClaw along that spectrum of close to openness.

Speaker1: And it might just be worth waiting for that instead. But if any of those examples Speaker1: did seem interesting, go try them out. Speaker1: It's very cool software. If anything, you'll learn a lot by failing or succeeding. Speaker1: And I think that's the really important thing. Again, it's just to stay on top of these things.

Speaker1: You want to be engaging with them, interacting with them, testing things out Speaker1: so you understand how they work and you're kind of better equipped to deal with Speaker1: this as things change so quickly. Speaker0: My take-home homework, for those of you listening to this, is to try out that Speaker0: Kimi K2, that Chinese model extension. They launched or integrated OpenClaw into your browser. Speaker0: So it's sandboxed to one environment, and it's super easy to use.

Speaker0: Try it out on your email, or maybe it saves you $5,000 buying a car, Speaker0: or whatever you want to try. Just give it a go. Speaker0: Let us know in the comments, actually, what you end up trying out, Speaker0: and whether it was actually useful to you, or if this is something that you're Speaker0: just going to wait more patiently for.

Speaker0: And when those new versions come out from the likes of Anthropic and OpenAir Speaker0: you can bet that Limitless is going to be the first ones to cover it so make Speaker0: sure you guys stay tuned we've been loving the engagement that you've been giving Speaker0: on our episodes we released an episode covering the entire acquisition of that Speaker0: OpenAI acquired for OpenClaw for billions of dollars,

Speaker0: absolute banger of an episode definitely go check that out and we're going to Speaker0: have a bunch more episodes coming out later this week and over the next couple of weeks so Josh.

Speaker1: And for the people new here um 85 aren't Speaker1: subscribed that watched in the last 30 days so make sure Speaker1: to subscribe on youtube follow on apple podcast rss Speaker1: wherever you get your podcasts spotify is a great way because you Speaker1: can listen and watch simultaneously depending on what you're up to Speaker1: and then sharing it with your friends is the best way to keep up to Speaker1: tabs or not keep up but the best way to help us grow and um in addition to that

Speaker1: we have a newsletter it comes out twice a week it's really cool uh the week Speaker1: the one on friday is the weekly recap the one on wednesday is a thought piece Speaker1: covering a topic that we'll eventually cover on the podcast and yeah if you're Speaker1: new here don't forget to subscribe thank you so much for joining with us and Speaker1: uh yeah we'll see you guys in the next one see you guys