Liminal Living - podcast cover

Liminal Living

Dr. Thomas J Rundelwww.patheos.com
Welcome to the Liminal Living Podcast, where we dive deep into the realm of liminal spaces—those transitional phases where uncertainty is our companion. I'm your host and curator of conversations, Dr. Tom Rundel, and it's my pleasure to serve as your guide through these uncharted territories. With a doctoral background in spirituality and leadership from Portland Seminary, my research has centered on the spirituality found in the narratives of liminality in the Bible, but I have expanded my research to include other faith traditions and cognitive science. Since our launch in 2023, we've been dedicated to exploring the nuances of dark nights and deconstructions, but our journey expanded to include insights from a diverse array of modern-day thinkers and artists. Through a blend of stories, practices, and perspectives, we provide valuable guidance for fellow travelers navigating their own liminal spaces. So, join us as we embark on this journey and embrace the uncertainty in order to uncover the hidden wisdom that lies within the liminal spaces of life.
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Episodes

114: Bruce Epperly: Progressive Christianity Can Save Us

takeaways Howard Thurman is a significant figure for understanding hope in difficult times. The current political climate creates a crisis of hope for many. Progressive Christianity can serve as a counterforce to conservative ideologies. Empathy is essential for ethical behavior and morality. There is a divide in Christianity that reflects differing beliefs about God. Fear and grievance play a significant role in conservative Christianity. The importance of social justice and activism in faith c...

Apr 16, 20251 hr 11 minSeason 4Ep. 16

113: Dillon Naber Cruz: Untangling Faith, Fundamentalism, and Nationalism

takeaways Dillon discusses the cultural diversity in Lancaster County, highlighting the coexistence of Amish and Christian nationalists. He emphasizes the importance of love and neighborly kindness in his theological approach. Dillon's writing project critiques Christian nationalism through the lens of Jesus and Paul's teachings. He expresses a desire to understand biblical figures and their teachings more deeply. The conversation touches on the significance of orthopraxy over orthodoxy in moder...

Apr 09, 20251 hr 5 minSeason 4Ep. 15

112: Amanda Tyler: How to End Christian Nationalism

Key Takeaways Christian Nationalism Defined : A political ideology merging American and Christian identities, often excluding non-Christians and enforcing conservative, white supremacist norms. Historical Roots : Christian nationalism is intertwined with the doctrine of discovery, slavery, and segregation, using faith to justify oppression. Power Over Principles : The alignment of some Christian groups with political power (e.g., Trump-era policies) often sacrifices theological integrity for inf...

Apr 02, 202554 minSeason 4Ep. 14

111: Aaron Niequist: Faith, Liturgy, and Navigating Disillusionment

Key Takeaways From Beliefs to Practice : Aaron advocates for shifting from a beliefs-based faith to a practice-based spirituality, where doing (e.g., forgiveness, liturgy, service) shapes belief more than intellectual assent. Ecumenical Future : The future of faith communities lies in crossing denominational silos, integrating traditions (e.g., evangelical hospitality with liturgical depth), and creating spaces for diverse expressions of worship. Critique of American Christianity : Both progress...

Mar 26, 20251 hr 6 minSeason 4Ep. 13

110: Preston Sharpe: Liturgical Rhythms, Resurrection Hope

🔑 Key Topics Covered: From Charismatic to Anglican: Preston’s journey from a Tulsa megachurch upbringing to embracing sacramental, liturgical traditions. Why Easter Matters for 50 Days: Rediscovering resurrection as a way of life —not just a doctrine—and its implications for justice, forgiveness, and hope. Liturgical Living: How ancient rhythms (like Lent, Eastertide, and Ordinary Time) reshape faith beyond entertainment-driven worship. Deconstruction & Doubt: Navigating faith shifts, cogni...

Mar 19, 20251 hr 5 minSeason 4Ep. 12

109: Chad Bahl: God is Not Supernatural?

🔑 Key Topics Covered: Why Supernaturalism Fails: Unpacking the medieval roots of supernaturalism and its incompatibility with modern questions of suffering (theodicy) and free will. Process Theology 101: Discover how thinkers like Alfred North Whitehead, David Ray Griffin, and Thomas J. Ord redefine God as a relational, persuasive force within—not above—the natural world. Panentheism vs. Supernaturalism: How God is the “soul of the universe,” intimately woven into creation’s fabric. Metamodern ...

Mar 12, 20251 hr 7 minSeason 4Ep. 11

108: Jacci Turner: How to Survive this Presidency

takeaways Grounding in spiritual practices is essential during chaotic times. Community support can provide strength and resilience. Limiting social media exposure can help maintain mental health. Deconstruction can be a transformative process, akin to a caterpillar becoming a butterfly. Creativity can serve as a pathway to hope and healing. Intentionality in actions can turn everyday activities into spiritual practices. Listening to marginalized voices is crucial for rebuilding faith and commun...

Mar 05, 202553 minSeason 4Ep. 10

107: Danny Bryant: Healing After I Escaped a Cult

takeaways Danny Bryant grew up in a religious cult that emphasized moral perfection. Literature played a significant role in shaping Danny's worldview and personal growth. Leaving the cult was a long and complex process for Danny, taking over a decade. Danny's experience in the cult led him to question many beliefs and seek a more inclusive faith. The trauma from his upbringing continues to influence Danny's life and work as a pastor. Danny aims to prove that pastoral care can be done with integ...

Feb 26, 20251 hr 5 minSeason 4Ep. 9

106: Trey Ferguson: Bad Theology is Killing Us

takeaways Bad theology shapes harmful societal priorities. Our understanding of God influences our actions. Genesis 1 introduces God as a creator from chaos. Jesus embodies the Word that brings order. Creation reflects a rhythm of forming and filling. Humans are stewards of God's creation, not slaves. Rest is essential for sustaining life and faith. The biblical narrative invites trust in God's provision. The chaos of society mirrors the darkness in Genesis 1. God's creation is abundant and mean...

Feb 19, 20251 hrSeason 4Ep. 8

105: Brandon Andress: Navigating the Circumference of Belonging

Takeaways Brandon's morning routine includes ice baths for wellness. Experiencing a sense of goodness at a young age shaped Brandon's faith. Faith can provide structure but should not be overly rigid. Questions about faith can lead to feeling on the fringes of religious communities. Confession and vulnerability can deepen community connections. Books can profoundly impact one's understanding of faith. The essence of faith may be mistaken for its constructs. Asking questions about the gospel can ...

Feb 12, 20251 hr 9 minSeason 4Ep. 7

104: David Hayward: Pursuing Spiritual Autonomy, with the Naked Pastor

takeaways David's early experiences shaped his adventurous spirit. He has a diverse background in various Christian denominations. His journey in faith has been marked by exploration and questioning. A pivotal moment in seminary led to a crisis of faith. David emphasizes the importance of navigating between faith and doubt. He experienced a profound flash of insight about the oneness of all things. David's blog, Naked Pastor, became a platform for his thoughts on spirituality. He believes every ...

Feb 05, 20251 hr 10 minSeason 4Ep. 6

103: Dr. Andrew Bauman: Safe Church, How to Guard Against Sexism in the Church

takeaways Dr. Bauman's book addresses sexism and abuse in the church. He conducted extensive research with over 2,800 women. The church has a history of silencing women's experiences. Authenticity is crucial in addressing personal and communal trauma. Patriarchy fosters a culture of secrecy and shame. Weaponizing forgiveness can harm victims of abuse. Theological beliefs should evolve and shed outdated ideas. Men's insecurities often lead to abusive behaviors. The church must confront its compli...

Jan 29, 20251 hr 2 minSeason 4Ep. 5

102: Taylor Thomas: Getting Existential; Tillich, Merton, and Horror Films

takeaways Taylor is currently fascinated by Nosferatu and its historical context. Nosferatu represents a preconception of vampires before they became romanticized. Horror films often reflect societal anxieties and fears. Taylor's upbringing in Appalachia was marked by a unique blend of faith traditions. A progressive preacher changed Taylor's perspective on Christianity. Thomas Merton's teachings had a profound impact on Taylor's faith journey. Taylor distinguishes between a personal God and a m...

Jan 22, 20251 hrSeason 4Ep. 4

101: Liz Charlotte Grant: Let the Scriptures Breathe

Take Aways Liz became a birth doula after her own experiences with childbirth. The process of becoming a mother can be isolating and taboo. Doulas provide emotional and psychological support during childbirth. Birth is a transformative experience for families, not just individuals. Liz's work as a doula involved helping families navigate their expectations and fears. Women in leadership roles often face unique challenges in church settings. Liz's faith journey involved significant personal and f...

Jan 15, 20251 hr 7 minSeason 4Ep. 3

100: Andrew M Davis: Philosophy, Theology, and the Universe

takeaways The course 'Whitehead's Universe' aims to introduce beginners to process philosophy. Whitehead's thinking is described as a prism, requiring multiple perspectives to understand. Experience is fundamental to both science and spirituality, shaping our understanding of reality. Process philosophy sees the world as fundamentally verb-like, emphasizing becoming over being. God is not static but dynamic, growing and changing with the world. The relationship between God and humanity is recipr...

Jan 08, 20251 hr 6 minSeason 4Ep. 2

99: Jeremy Steele: The Skeptic Pastor, Balancing Faith and Doubt

takeaways Jeremy identifies as a skeptic pastor, balancing doubt and faith. Choosing beliefs that promote love and acceptance is crucial. The role of a pastor is to help people connect with the divine. Deconstruction is a lifelong process of questioning inherited beliefs. The damage caused by rigid belief systems is often pervasive. Philosophy and theology are distinct fields with different tools. Authenticity in spirituality can lead to personal growth. Spiritual beliefs can provide mental heal...

Jan 01, 202559 minSeason 4Ep. 1

98: Peter Rollins: Is God Dead? A Peek Into Radical Theology

In this RECAST conversation with Peter Rollins , we discuss the themes of loss, death, and redemption. He shares his experiences growing up in Northern Ireland and how it shaped his work on scapegoating and peace. Rollins emphasizes the importance of embracing our contradictions and the inherent loss and death that is part of being human. He critiques the idea of a pre-traumatic state and highlights the redemptive power of encountering our own dividedness. The conversation also explores the role...

Dec 25, 20241 hr 26 minSeason 3Ep. 53

97: Jon Turney: This is Not Church

takeaways Jon has worked at Costco for 30 years and has a diverse personal life. He grew up in a religious household but questioned church teachings from a young age. Jon's early questions about the Bible led to feelings of rebellion during his teenage years. His experiences in theater challenged his views on homosexuality and church teachings. Jon's journey included studying various religions and ultimately identifying as agnostic. He reconnected with faith through the hyper grace movement, emp...

Dec 18, 20241 hr 1 minSeason 3Ep. 52

96: Blair Coyle: Escaping Evangelical Indoctrination

takeaways Catching the Northern Lights was a long-awaited dream. Growing up in evangelical communities shaped my worldview. Fear-based teachings can lead to obsessive faith practices. Experiencing spiritual abuse can lead to complex PTSD. Questioning beliefs is a crucial part of personal growth. YWAM provided both community and indoctrination. Different theological perspectives can expand understanding. The journey of deconstruction is often painful but necessary. Finding supportive communities ...

Dec 11, 20241 hr 4 minSeason 3Ep. 51

95: Leslie Nease: Free From Toxic Theology

Leslie's childhood was marked by instability and a search for connection. She experienced a significant faith shift after a traumatic event involving her daughter. The journey of deconstruction led her to question long-held beliefs. Leslie emphasizes the importance of community and authenticity in faith. She learned to think critically and trust herself after leaving the church. The fear-based teachings of her past created anxiety and isolation. Leslie's experiences on Survivor China opened her ...

Dec 04, 20241 hr 16 minSeason 3Ep. 50

94: Scot McKnight: Doing Better Political Discipleship

Scot expresses discouragement over the political alignment of evangelicals with Trump. The conversation highlights the importance of character in leadership. Young people are increasingly disillusioned with the church due to its political affiliations. Scot emphasizes the need for political discipleship in the church. The rise of authoritarianism is a concern for many Christians. Scot believes that America will survive political turmoil. The church should not be tied to any political party. Ther...

Nov 27, 202450 minSeason 3Ep. 49

93: Mattie Jo Cowsert: Unraveling Evangelical Identity

takeaways Mattie moved to New York City driven by a strong instinct. Growing up in Branson felt like living on a movie set. Her upbringing was wholesome but came with pressures. She recognizes the good and bad in her evangelical background. Stability in community provided comfort during her teenage years. Questioning beliefs began at a theater camp in New York. Evangelicalism often conflates knowing and believing. Love should not have an agenda in evangelism. The historical context of women in C...

Nov 20, 20241 hrSeason 3Ep. 48

92: Cassidy Hall: Queering Contemplation

takeaways Hiking the Camino was a transformative spiritual experience. Reflecting on life in three-month segments helps maintain focus. Faith was a spacious concept in Cassidy's upbringing. Questions about existence began at a young age for Cassidy. Deconstruction of faith can lead to deeper self-understanding. Thomas Merton's writings opened new avenues of contemplation. Queering contemplation invites a broader understanding of spirituality. Engaging with political issues is crucial for communi...

Nov 13, 20241 hr 11 minSeason 3Ep. 45

91: Rob Bell on the Meaning of Everything

takeaways The journey of life often involves navigating liminal spaces. Emotional transitions can be profound and transformative. Writing is a deeply personal and exploratory process. Names hold significant power in shaping identity. Self-definition is an essential part of personal growth. Grief can be processed in various ways, including observation. Self-awareness must be balanced with self-compassion. The present moment is all we truly have. Creative expression can lead to deeper self-underst...

Nov 04, 20241 hr 11 minSeason 3Ep. 47

90: Bradley Jersak: Nonviolent Atonement

Takeaways Bradley Jersak emphasizes the importance of community in spiritual growth. He reflects on the trauma experienced within his faith journey. The problem of evil is a significant challenge for many believers. Jersak advocates for a nonviolent interpretation of atonement. He believes the cross represents God's love rather than divine violence. The intersection of goodness and suffering is a central theme in his theology. Jersak highlights the need for healing and recovery in faith communit...

Oct 30, 20241 hr 10 minSeason 3Ep. 46

89: Danny Cox: Making Inclusive Faith Spaces

Takeaways Transparency and clarity are essential in church communities, particularly when it comes to issues like LGBTQ inclusion. Churches should clearly communicate their theological stance and actively work towards creating an inclusive and welcoming environment for all. The concept of covenantal relationships, where individuals are bound together in a covenant of community, allows for diversity of theology while maintaining a sense of unity. Churches should prioritize open and honest convers...

Oct 23, 20241 hr 14 minSeason 3Ep. 41

88: Tommy Preson Phillips: Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ

Take Away Ideas Deconstruction isn’t about losing faith, but about re-centering on Jesus. Doubt and curiosity are essential tools in questioning rigid religious structures. The power dynamics of church leadership need reevaluation; Christ-like leadership centers on humility and service. The shift from religious laws to virtues (like love, peace, and self-control) is essential for spiritual growth. The church should create space for dialogue, shared meals, and mutual support to foster genuine com...

Oct 16, 20241 hr 16 minSeason 3Ep. 44

87: Tom Rundel: Unfundamentalist Bible Studies: Reinterpreting James 5

takeaways Tom Rundel reinterprets the Book of James for modern understanding. Suffering is a common experience, not to be glorified. Spiritual bypassing dismisses the reality of suffering. Prayer should be an honest engagement with one's situation. Lament is a significant part of spiritual practice. Community support is crucial for those who are suffering. The role of elders in providing care and support is vital. Healing is not just physical but also emotional and spiritual. Spiritual practices...

Oct 11, 202431 min

86: Matt Tebbe: Politics as Christian Practice

takeaways The current political and cultural moment in the United States is characterized by the erosion of trust in democracy and the weaponization of fear and anger. Apocalyptic language is used in political discourse to create a sense of urgency and to rally support, but it often hinders productive conversations and solutions. Economic realities, such as rising prices and income inequality, are often blamed on political leaders, but the underlying problems are complex and require systemic cha...

Oct 09, 20241 hr 23 minSeason 3Ep. 42

85: Tom Rundel: Unfudamentalist Bible Studies: Reinterpreting James 4

n this episode of Non-Fundamentalist Bible Studies, Tom Rundel explores the end of chapter three and the beginning of chapter four of the book of James. He emphasizes the importance of understanding wisdom and knowledge in a non-weaponized context, encouraging listeners to seek genuine wisdom through a beautiful manner of living rather than through superficial appearances. The conversation delves into the nature of true wisdom, the inner conflicts that lead to community disputes, and the necessi...

Oct 04, 202429 min
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